S05.E13: Forget

[TexasChic]

But Daryl was the scouter for the CDB-Woodbury survivors crew. Everybody LOVED Daryl at the prison! He even had a hard time dealing with the popularity that came with the job.

[kj4ever]

What about Maggie peeps?  Not only has she drank the kool aid, she seems to be snorting, smoking,and injecting it.

 

As for Daryl working with Aaron, I think he is going to be the back-up person in case he gets in trouble, like what Eric did.

Edited March 10, 2015 by kj4ever

[ghoulina]

To Rick, though, that A is Terminus and Gareth. It's the trailer the CDB were held in, and it's the taunt/threat that Gareth painted on the church when his cannibal crew dropped off poor, half-eaten Bob. It's the massacre inside the church when Rick showed how he really, really keeps his promise. You think Sasha had PTSD in this episode? I think that stamp set Rick not just on edge but pushed him over it.

 

I could see this. When Aaron was in the barn with CDB and he made that statement about more people making them stronger, he almost sounded like Gareth for a moment. And Rick punched him out just as he was saying that. Terminus was a very scary, fucked up situation. I have no problem believing it scarred some of them very, very badly.

[Snaporaz]

I am bothered by the shot of the 'W' branded walker after the group walked away from it, because in that shot it was upside down and was an 'M.' If I were to brand someone, the best way would be if they were tied down, and I was standing at their head.

My first thought on seeing the "W" was "George Bush voter", then I noticed after the walker was killed that it could be an "M". Could Morgan have followed or tracked them all the way to Alexandria?

[Ohwell]

I think the CDB gang is getting too smug now with their badassery.  That attitude might come back to bite them in their arses.

[BrokenRemote]

Buttons is a great cat name, it is a truly strange horse name.

Fellow feral cat tamer here. The one in my picture lived to 13. We took in my mom's when she died away, and that one made it to 19. She was a bit bitey, though.

The hours-old orange kitten I found in a dumpster lived to 21 1/2. Feral kitties is tough :) Thanks, everyone for the kind words. It is good to know there are so many feral cat peeps here! (meep. meep, that kitty in your pic is so adorable!)

I totally agree with those who said the horse was a metaphor for not only Daryl, but our whole group. Try to tame 'em and bad things happen.

Edited March 10, 2015 by BrokenRemote

[GoldenHera]

This was quite the episode. It's great to see all the various interpretations of the Rick/Jessie/Pete dynamic. I think it's interesting that many people have noted that Pete may be abusive. I'm wondering if that is

a holdover of his character in the comic

because, taken at face value, his relationship with Jessie doesn't seem too tumultuous. I'll have to rewatch for the signs that she flinched/pulled away from him.

 

It seems we all agree on one thing though, Rick is loosing his damn mind. We may be seeing potential signs of discord in the Jessie/Pete relationship, but can they be trusted. They are being shown through an unstable person's viewpoint. What if Pete is a stand up guy who's marriage is just a bit rocky and Rick incorrectly reads him as dangerous because he has forgotten that not everyone is a threat. The end scene of Rick reaching for his gun when seeing Pete reminded me of Shane watching Rick through the rifle. 

 

Personally, I do not want to see Jessie and Rick get together simply because it will be disastrous for CDB. Pete is the only doctor in an idyllic community in the Zombie Apocalypse. If some new dude rolls into town looking to threaten him, new dude and his crew would have to kick rocks. 

[gutbuster]

I just realized the cookie kid Carol scared is Jessie's son, right? The one who stamped people? I wonder if that plot is gonna come back.

It was Jessie's son. I would bet money that it will be a plot point. When and how Sam blabs, and Jessie or others find  out about Rick and Carol's plan will serve to make things even more awkward with the Rick/Jessie 'whatever it is' happening. 

 

 Was the Scarlet Letter foreshadowing?  I immediately thought of Terminus and the A warehouse.  Red flags!  

 

I instantly screamed 'Terminus' when I first spotted the red 'A' on Pete's hand. I thought it was a tattoo and he was a former Termite. (Even though no one else at Terminus had tattoos, I still managed to think that.) After Sam stamped him, I thought Rick was having a flashback or an 'A-ha' moment about ASZ being on the up and up or not, but then the dorky smile and fist up wave he and Jessie exchanged at the end did away with that. I hated that 'you're one of us now' stuff that seemed to get brushed off but should have our gang feeling a bit uneasy, especially after the 'we first always' cannibals.

 

I thought there was another moment of foreshadowing at the party when Sasha lost it. She was watching everyone eat and was equating it to how CDB let their guard down in the church when they had their little party. That ended badly with Bob getting eaten, which we also saw a short clip of one of the Termite's  mouths tearing flesh (eating Bob). Our group knows first hand what happens when you get complacent and let your guard down even a little bit. Not just at the church but the prison, as well. This was exactly like those other times. It's pretty clear that this isn't going to end well.

 

The relationship with Jessie and hubby seemed a bit off somehow.  If they really do make him Ed Redux to justify Rick's interest that will be............tedious.

 

 

I was certain that Rick was going to get roofied at that party. Their insistence that he drink seemed odd, and then Peter (who is definitely giving off abusive/controlling vibes) taking Rick's glass to be refilled and curtly shutting Jessie down when she offered to do it contributed to the vaguely threatening air of the whole party. Of course, that's probably just the writers being...well, the writers.

 

I agree, but it seems like that is where they're going in regards to Pete. I know there is a lot of interpretation to be had in regards to Jessie/ Pete and Jessie/Rick, but I think the things that seem obvious we can more or less take at face value. It seems they are probably trying to cram in quick backstory that they just want to get out of the way in order to justify Pete's obvious eventual demise. Which makes me ask 'Why bother with the character at all? I really hate that they made Jessie married. Single mom? fine. Divorced? fine. Currently married and living as a family unit with her husband and two kids. wtf?

 

I do hope that if they make Pete an abusive drunk that Carol is the one to step in and help Jessie, IF Jessie is unable to help herself. It doesn't necessarily make Jessie a victim, she did say she could take care of herself, but there's no weakness in needing help sometimes. And if Jessie kills her husband, even better! But maybe Carol helping will be what allows Jessie to bond with someone other than Rick and move past Carol threatening her child with a  horrible death. That might not work, however, since I don't think most mothers would ever forgive anyone who treated their child as Carol treated Sam. When this comes out, it will be really awkward for Rick if he has to somehow choose between the two.

 

I also noticed Reg practically forcing the drink on Rick. What if he just doesn't want any, Reg? What if he was a recovering alcoholic. You don't know his life. What did Reg mean about "You don't need to be (good)"? That was so passive aggressive. It was just like the scene when Maggie, Rick, and Michonne are with Deanna when she gives her 'commerce and infrastructure' speech (THAT was bullshit, Deanna). She went around the room and put them all on the spot like they were children and insisted that they say 'no' her idea was not in fact bullshit. Michonne and Rick's expressions were priceless. I think Maggie is drinking the Kool Aid a bit, and I don't blame her, but I don't think Rick and Michonne are.

 

By far the creepiest character for me tonight, however, was Rick.  Who was that dude?  You're putting moves on some chick you just met with her husband in the same room?  Really?  REALLY?  I know it's been a while since little Rick's got a chance to come out an play but this is not the time, OR the woman.  Speaking of, while I passively ship Richonne as endgame, I don't have objections to Rick and Michonne hooking up with other people, so I don't hate Jessie as a threat.  What I hate is the way they are making her ever present as The Potential Love Interest.  Notice that she seems to always end up alone with Rick, even though there are other people, she's married with two kids, he's got two kids and a 14 member "family", but it's always those two with a spotlight in even a crowded room.  The anviliciousness of the whole thing screams set up to me.  As in they could'nt possibly hookup.  If anything he's going to get her killed.  That kiss made me gag.  Too soon, you ask Rick?  Yes, you dolt, too freakin' soon!  Since I commented on looks let me nominate Andy Lincoln for the acting win.  AL is a pretty boy, no doubt, and the stubble has made him believable as a tough guy for several seasons.  I just love that now, clean and clean-shaven with those dreamy blue bedroom eyes disarming all who witness them, he is scaring the hell out of me.  He looks like a caged predator.  He's just not right.  I feel like, a la Walter White, Rick IS the danger.

I agree with a lot of this. I would be more willing to believe there's room for interpretation if Rick wasn't the only person from our group Jessie has talked to or interacted with. Has she talked to anyone else? If she had been shown to roll out the welcome wagon for any of them other than just Rick, then I could see the argument that this is all innocent. So this is why I feel like she's going to be the love interest and around for a while. All of their encounters have been kind of reminiscent of cheesy rom-com.  I mean, honestly, last episode when Rick tripped over that dog dish and then crashed into a pile of trash/sculpture that was right in front of his face and Jessie instantly pops up out of her garage...that was so stupid. STUPID.

 

Don't even get me started on the moment she walked out holding Judith. That scene slapped me in the face with the completely unveiled "I Can Be Judith's New Mommy" written all over it. I also find it that hard to believe that two grown adults who both have teenagers and have held babies of Judith's age would be that awkward and delicate passing her off. Rick's been slogging her around like a sack of potatoes for the past two episodes. That whole scene was romantic comedy staging. The minute she asked him if he wanted to take Judith I knew what was coming, but I honestly thought Rick was going to completely lose his mind and kiss her on the mouth. Unfortunately, what we got was sufficiently inappropriate, because she is married and he knows what it's like to be on the other side of this kind of thing. Also because, even excluding all of the context from their other interactions, it was the way they gazed at each other; the lingering and smiling. If he had laughed it off and thanked her for her kindness and she reacted coolly with an 'anytime' or something, then I would agree that it was a sweet or friendly 'thanks for the toilet paper' kind of thing, but it wasn't. Rick had his Smolder on.

 

I'm not so sure that Michonne is as happy to be here as she wants to be. When she and Abraham were talking she couldn't come up with anything to say she was trying other "than I put on this dress." I really liked her in that moment she let herself be a little bit vulnerable with him. 

 

I loved Daryl and Aaron ("A.A. Ron" ha!) bonding in the wild. Not in a shippy way, I just thought it was nice. And the I enjoyed the entire dinner scene, as well. When Daryl shoved that huge pile of spaghetti in his mouth I thought he was going to choke, but he chewed and swallowed really fast -_-. The sweetest part was when he wiped his mouth on his sleeve and then quickly corrected for politeness and used his napkin like a toddler would. Then later, when he thanked  Aaron and told him he would bring him back some rabbits, because that's how Daryl thanks people for kindness. With dead animals. I don't mind when Daryl goes a bit child-like because it's usually balanced with him getting shit done. But I just watched season 1 again and was thinking how I miss when we could see actually see Daryl's eyes and he was always yelling at everything and kicking Vatos. I hope he can heal and come out of his shell again.

Edited March 10, 2015 by gutbuster

[AngelaHunter]

500 posts...I'll never catch up.:(

 

Another episode I very much enjoyed, although I'm a bit traumatized after watching Carol scare the bejesus out of Sam.

 

Daryl's table manners leave a little to be desired, but the boys didn't seem to mind. I guess for them it was a thrill, like having a wild animal come and sit on your hearth.

 

But for all those who saw Rick as the aggressor, with his predatory kiss - I couldn't see it that way, because Jessie came to him first.

 

I've seen her as being flirtatious since Hour One. I felt  sorry for Rick. He's certainly overdue for a little action - probably standing there with a boner fit to break a plate and she gives him the flirty/smiley brush-off-but-not-really. OTOH, I really think Rick is crazy and he's going to be trouble in this place, along with Carol, who I also feel is kinda nuts. Sasha isn't nuts, IMO, but does seem to  have pretty severe PTSD.

 

What they really need in Alexandria is a resident shrink. Many of CDB are sorely in need of one.

 

And dammit, we already saw one horse being eaten alive. Did not need to see another one. I really wanted to watch Daryl do his Horse Whisperer thing, too.

[Iguessnot]

I found the kiss all kinds of wrong. Had Rick found himself in a situation, like after the prison escape, being holed up with Jessica and gave her a peck on the cheek, I could overlook the kiss as based on other emotions along with him being a little randy. However Rick knew this eye candy was married. Porch dick marked his territory and yet Rick initiated a sexually intimate gesture in the middle of a party with thundering skies porch dick in attendance. Rick is making some brazen moves towards this woman and it doesn't sit right with me.

 

The cocktail party reminded of that Eddie Murphy skit on SNL where he demonstrates how white people act when black people aren't around. It looked so suburban cliche and dangerously inappropriate in the ZA. 

[Mu Shu]

"Coral, you're grounded! No hat-wearing for a month."

BANG!

"And no dog food!".   Oh, wait, he never allowed Coral to eat dog food.    "Coral, how can you get any pudding if you won't eat your possum?"

[Snaporaz]

Sasha is breaking my heart. She just looks so broken. SM-G is really bringing it.

[Raven1707]

Finally caught up with the thread and now I'm too tired to offer an irrational thought, much less a reasoned argument.

 

Maybe I'll have better luck tomorrow...

[BrokenRemote]

I found the kiss all kinds of wrong. Had Rick found himself in a situation, like after the prison escape, being holed up with Jessica and gave her a peck on the cheek, I could overlook the kiss as based on other emotions along with him being a little randy. However Rick knew this eye candy was married. Porch dick marked his territory and yet Rick initiated a sexually intimate gesture in the middle of a party with thundering skies porch dick in attendance. Rick is making some brazen moves towards this woman and it doesn't sit right with me.

 

The cocktail party reminded of that Eddie Murphy skit on SNL where he demonstrates how white people act when black people aren't around. It looked so suburban cliche and dangerously inappropriate in the ZA. 

 

I have to remember to tell my great-aunts and friends that those cheek kisses are sexually intimate.  Have they all been trying to force themselves on me all this time?  

 

A kiss on the cheek, even if it included an embrace (which it didn't), even if it was soft and lingering (rather than stilted and awkward) can't be anything approaching sexually intimate in my book.  It can be suggestive..maybe it could be sensual.  Sexually intimate?  Sexually?  I just can't even get my brain there; even if the two of them were lovers I couldn't find a kiss on the cheek sexually intimate.  

 

Edited to add:  Fully clothed?  With a baby between them?  Still trying to get my head there...

Edited March 10, 2015 by BrokenRemote

[Iguessnot]

Yep, it was a sexually intimate moment with Jessie/Jessica. Not like his kiss with Beth or with Carl. 

Edited March 10, 2015 by Iguessnot

[BrokenRemote]

Well, I'm going to have to agree to vehemently disagree with your opinion on that one.  

[GoldenHera]

I have to remember to tell my great-aunts and friends that those cheek kisses are sexually intimate.  Have they all been trying to force themselves on me all this time? 

A kiss on the cheek, even if it included an embrace (which it didn't), even if it was soft and lingering (rather than stilted and awkward) can't be anything approaching sexually intimate in my book.  It can be suggestive..maybe it could be sensual.  Sexually intimate?  Sexually?  I just can't even get my brain there; even if the two of them were lovers I couldn't find a kiss on the cheek sexually intimate. 

Edited to add:  Fully clothed?  With a baby between them?  Still trying to get my head there...

 

I would be with you if Rick and Jessie's first scene wasn't a meet cute. The set up for romance is there. I just hope Rick doesn't destroy CDB's chance at happiness in ASZ by creating problems with Pete. As I said upthread, I'll take the town doctor over the new guy in town any day. 

[BrokenRemote]

I'm not saying the setup for romance isn't there.  It obviously is.  I just apparently have a very different definition of sexually intimate than some.  To me that would imply, well, a sexual component, and a degree of intimacy.

[Diane M]

It seems we all agree on one thing though, Rick is loosing his damn mind.

 

Here's one viewer who doesn't agree.  I think Rick just really wants Alexandria to be a safe place to settle for his children's sake, and he's willing to give these people a chance.  

[Scout Finch]

Okay, I seriously am completely done with this show! There was already a horrific horse killing scene in the first season. What was the fucking point of adding a horse for one episode is this was just going to happen?? I hoped the show wouldn't go there but I should know better. It's extremely upsetting to me! I haven't cried about anyone dying throughout this whole series but I am about this.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Scout Finch

[HalcyonDays]

A kiss on the cheek, even if it included an embrace (which it didn't), even if it was soft and lingering (rather than stilted and awkward) can't be anything approaching sexually intimate in my book.  It can be suggestive..maybe it could be sensual.  Sexually intimate?  Sexually?  I just can't even get my brain there; even if the two of them were lovers I couldn't find a kiss on the cheek sexually intimate.

 

Honestly - it wasn't the kiss itself. It was the look in Rick's eyes BEFORE he leaned in for the kiss (from how I viewed it). The act itself is something that could be considered very chaste, and something that platonic family members do all of the time.

 

It was the look. I'm a long suffering lover of the show Sleepy Hollow, and we have two words for that look that happened to appear on Rick's face as he leaned in for the kiss ---> eye-fucking.

[JBody]

CDB rolled into ASZ like a damned Trojan horse. They are a plague, as Herschel said. But ASZhats have had it far too good for far too long anyway. Maggie really wants this, and I'm sorry for her. Does Carol ever stop and wonder when her protective instincts become counterproductive? Another vote for the kiss being unchaste. I was shocked he did that to a virtual stranger and chalked it up to libido, whisky and his slightly unhinged mind. End shot was chilling. Like he was the zed whisperer, honing in on it and kind of communing with it. Uber creepfest.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I see absolutely no faults with Rick meeting Jesse and falling in lust.  I mean, for as far as what we've been shown/told, the dude hasn't gotten his wick wet for at least 2 years [show time], when him and Lori did it right next to a sleeping Carl, when Rick first found them.  So he's got one hell of a streak to bust, and she's a very pretty woman.

 

I just don't like how even though him and this group has been through a lot between now and then, for all intents and purposes, it really looks like he is basically Shane 2.0.  And seeing as how he was the one that was on the receiving end of a try at being cuckolded, you'd think he would be like "oh, this seems familiar, only the shoe's on the other foot now.  Maybe I should step back and reassess for a moment here.".

 

 

ETA:  That kiss on the cheek was one of the most sub-texted 'chaste' kisses you'll find on TV.  It wasn't the kiss itself that made it a 'sexual intimacy' moment.  It was the can't-look-away-from-his/her-eyes/face that happened both before and after the kiss.  Jesse's expression definitely changed to "whoa", in a 'he is kind of hot and now I think I might actually just be a bit attracted to him' way, after the cheek peck.

Edited March 10, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[GoldenHera]

Here's one viewer who doesn't agree.  I think Rick just really wants Alexandria to be a safe place to settle for his children's sake, and he's willing to give these people a chance.

 

It's interesting that you see him as legitimately giving ASZ a chance. To me it seems as though he is waiting for the other shoe to drop. He, Carol and Daryl don't seem to trust the place, that's why they had their club meeting outside the walls about stealing guns. I thought it was especially telling when Rick said, 'the others want to try,' as if the three amigos aren't ready to try just yet. I get it, they haven't been safe since the start of the ZA, and their paranoia has served them well since. But, if this place is legit, that paranoia might get them booted. 

[Dodginblue]

Here's one viewer who doesn't agree.  I think Rick just really wants Alexandria to be a safe place to settle for his children's sake, and he's willing to give these people a chance.  

 

It's a tribute to Andrew Lincoln's amazing acting, that so many people can interpret his expressions, his actions, how he says things in so many different ways.  I don't see someone who's becoming unhinged, at least not more than the average ZA survivor who's been out in the world for the last 2 years or so.   I think I've become so acclimated to the dangers of the ZA world on this show that I think the people who aren't acting a little odd and scary are the ones to watch out for.  

 

 I think about the fact that Rick is a recent widower, a guy who was apparently married for what, something like 10-15 years probably, a guy who I think pre ZA was most likely faithful to his wife, not a player, just an average married guy who loved his wife and his kid and wasn't in the market for anything else.  He was never Mr. Smooth pre-ZA, not a flirt, not someone who put the moves on looking to mess around regardless of the consequences.  And he hasn't suddenly become that now.  At least i don't think so.  

Edited March 10, 2015 by Dodginblue

[morgankobi]

I say all this because this is what my kids and do, NONSTOP, watching this damn show, or other shows like it.   We shout at the characters so they will hide guns in the correct places or keep someone on the outside as a contingency, etc.  (They never listen, dammit.)  We will actually pause the show and discuss what we would do instead. And we play the game out and about.  What's your zombie plan?   What are your weapons of opportunity in this condo?  What's your escape plan?  What if you had to survive in Six Flags?  lol

 

peach, can I watch at your house? It sounds fun. No one else in my house watches :(

[Pestilentia]

 

It was the look. I'm a long suffering lover of the show Sleepy Hollow, and we have two words for that look that happened to appear on Rick's face as he leaned in for the kiss ---> eye-fucking.

Yes.

He was shooting some serious sex beams out of those baby blues.

[GreyBunny]

Carol got that threat from Ed.  Just sayin'

Poor Buttons, animals just don't have a chance on this show.  

[Door]

I just watched the episode, so forgive me if it's been said, but I'm enjoying this role reversal. Up to now, CDB has encountered total psychos and followers of psychos. Now THEY are the psychos who might do major harm to an existing, peaceable group. 

 

Not that I think it will stay that way but I'm enjoying the ride in the meantime. 

[paigow]

Mind meld does not require physical contact.... Rick learned from the master.

[JBody]

Exactly!!!

[tennisgurl]

The main reason I call Jessie's husband as abusive is because it would be the easiest way to get her together with Rick. He gets to ride in, save her from her evil husband, get rid of the bad guy, and get the girl. Really, that`s the only reason I`m calling it.

 

I feel like yesterday, I was too harsh on Jessie. Yeah, she is just kind of blandly nice now, but we hardly know her character. There is nothing wrong with being nice and welcoming as defining character traits. I need to give her more time. I didn't think much of Michonne for ages, and now she`s one of my favorites. Granted, I don't think Jessie will EVER be Michonne, but I could grow to at least like her somewhat. I think the reason I immediately threw so much dislike at her was because:

 

1. Shes obviously being set up as Ricks new love interest. That puts a lot of pressure on a new character, especially when the writers have seemingly been teasing Rick/Michonne, a pairing that, to me, makes a lot of sense than Rick and Jessie. She has to make a really good first impression if she is going to be the main characters new love interest and she was...just alright.

 

2. She kind of gives off vibes of the female characters from season one and two, who just cowered behind the men with the kids whenever the walkers attacked. Which isn't fair, because how could Jessie become a badass like all of our groups lady's when shes been in Alexandria, but it opens up the possibility of her becoming the pretty blond lady Rick has to save. Not a super interesting characterization.

 

I`ll give her a chance, but I am not super confident in all this.  

[Pestilentia]

I keep forgetting to mention that I missed Eugene terribly.

I would have loved to see his reaction to the festivities.

[Dodginblue]

I just watched the episode, so forgive me if it's been said, but I'm enjoying this role reversal. Up to now, CDB has encountered total psychos and followers of psychos. Now THEY are the psychos who might do major harm to an existing, peaceable group. 

 

Not that I think it will stay that way but I'm enjoying the ride in the meantime. 

 

Well, they were invited in and this after supposedly being scouted so ASZers might be a peaceful group but also possibly kind of a dumb and naive one as well.  Or they aren't all that they pretend to be.  Or they are just average everyday folks trying to make the best of a bad situation.  Which if that's the case, why did they go out looking for people to recruit?  Just Deanna's master plan to build a brave new world?  I don't know.  There is something a little creepy about this oasis of calm and comfort in a world of zombies and raving crazies.  It makes me wonder, are there lots of these isolated little pockets around the US, people who managed early on to get to a somewhat secure place with supplies or an easy way to keep supplied and are they all doing this, trying to maintain like as they knew it before the ZA.  Cocktail parties and video games for the kids.  

[Dodginblue]

The main reason I call Jessie's husband as abusive is because it would be the easiest way to get her together with Rick. He gets to ride in, save her from her evil husband, get rid of the bad guy, and get the girl. Really, that`s the only reason I`m calling it.

 

I feel like yesterday, I was too harsh on Jessie. Yeah, she is just kind of blandly nice now, but we hardly know her character. There is nothing wrong with being nice and welcoming as defining character traits. I need to give her more time. I didn't think much of Michonne for ages, and now she`s one of my favorites. Granted, I don't think Jessie will EVER be Michonne, but I could grow to at least like her somewhat. I think the reason I immediately threw so much dislike at her was because:

 

1. Shes obviously being set up as Ricks new love interest. That puts a lot of pressure on a new character, especially when the writers have seemingly been teasing Rick/Michonne, a pairing that, to me, makes a lot of sense than Rick and Jessie. She has to make a really good first impression if she is going to be the main characters new love interest and she was...just alright.

 

2. She kind of gives off vibes of the female characters from season one and two, who just cowered behind the men with the kids whenever the walkers attacked. Which isn't fair, because how could Jessie become a badass like all of our groups lady's when shes been in Alexandria, but it opens up the possibility of her becoming the pretty blond lady Rick has to save. Not a super interesting characterization.

 

I`ll give her a chance, but I am not super confident in all this.  

 

I really hope that if they are going to try and devise a way to put Rick and Jessie together it's not because Pete is an abuser.  Been there, done that.  And it was lot more believable with Ed.  Jesse doesn't really profile like an abused wife, not that there necessarily has to be a particular way that an abused wife acts.  I know that some do try to keep a normal front for outsiders, when they're in the public eye.  And if he really is an abusive husband, why can't Jessie just leave him, move into another house, tell him to stay away.   Or doesn't Deanna allow marriages to break up.  Do we really need a story line where Rick has to come in and save the little woman from the big meanie husband.  I don't.  But then I'm not writing this show.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

So, just for poops and giggles, and because of the red 'A' vs the 'W's carved into some walker foreheads, and Wolves graffiti...  I decided to look up some generic info on the Little Red Riding Hood mythology. 

 

Wikipedia has some info that a couple different names with A starting their first or last names did some work while borrowing from the overall mythology, if not doing their own version of the tale.   Maybe I'm straining to hard in wanting to see something that isn't even remotely a part of tptb/writers thought process, but there is a bit of a slight tie in between the red 'A' and with the Wolves coming (or so it really seems to be leading up to).   And also, could use the context of looking at it as Jesse is 'LRRH' and Rick is the 'Wolf'.

 

Then there was this pic of a cover image towards a story titled Once Upon A Time, which serves as a metaphor for sexual awakening.  [which ties into the Rick/Jesse stuff, especially on Rick's end (or re-awakening, in his case)]...

(that cloak really resembles a capitalized red letter A, doesn't it?)

 

Then there's also Angela Carter's story "The Company of Wolves", where the wolf comes to newly menstruating Red Riding Hood in the forest in the form of a charming hunter.  Jesse isn't 'newly menstruating', but Rick could loosely fit the characterization of a 'charming hunter'.

[CarpeDiem54]

It's a tribute to Andrew Lincoln's amazing acting, that so many people can interpret his expressions, his actions, how he says things in so many different ways. I don't see someone who's becoming unhinged, at least not more than the average ZA survivor who's been out in the world for the last 2 years or so. I think I've become so acclimated to the dangers of the ZA world on this show that I think the people who aren't acting a little odd and scary are the ones to watch out for.

I think about the fact that Rick is a recent widower, a guy who was apparently married for what, something like 10-15 years probably, a guy who I think pre ZA was most likely faithful to his wife, not a player, just an average married guy who loved his wife and his kid and wasn't in the market for anything else. He was never Mr. Smooth pre-ZA, not a flirt, not someone who put the moves on looking to mess around regardless of the consequences. And he hasn't suddenly become that now. At least i don't think so.

This! I finally got to watch, and after reading every.single.post I didn't see any romance between Rick and Jessie. If anyone was being the aggressor, it was her. She popped up all over that party giving Rick the "oh so friendly" eye. I didn't get any abusive vibes from Pete at all. His brush-off of Jessie during the drink refill scene just seemed like he was annoyed. Because she's annoying.

I'd really like for Aaron to be a good guy, but I don't trust any of the ASZhats. Especially, and foremost, Deanna the Douchebag Politician. On one of his runs, Daryl needs to raid a pharmacy and pick up every psychotropic drug they have. This woman has serious delusions.

Poor Sasha, I wanted to hug her after punching "what's your favorite dinner" bitch in the mouth.

Carol, you go girl! Actually, I wish she'd had a death grip on that sneaky little brat's throat while threatening him. Creepy little hand stamping special snowflake.

Buttons - RIP. First time I cried since Herschel died. Poor innocent horsey.

I hate the way Maggie's been gulping the Kool-Aid. Michonne looks ridiculous in that cop getup and needs to carry her katana.

Abe was actually amusing in this episode. Where were Dr. Mullet, Tara and FPP? Weren't they invited?

They need to have a few walkers chow down on some of the ASZhats, in front of Deanna, ASAP. The buffet should have Aiden, Jessie, and a bunch of those hipster whiners from the party on it.

I think they're being spied on and need to be more careful.

Yeah, I've been out there way too long.

Edited March 10, 2015 by CarpeDiem54

[Dodginblue]

I'd really like for Aaron to be a good guy, but I don't trust any of the ASZhats. Especially, and foremost, Deanna the Douchebag Politician. On one of his runs, Daryl needs to raid a pharmacy and pick up every psychotropic drug they have. This woman has serious delusions.

 

I think Deanna is scary because I think it's possible that she's not deluded.  She knows exactly or close to it what's been going on out there and she sees this as an opportunity to recreate the world the way she wants it to be.  ASZ seems a little Stepford-y to me.  Not just the women, i don't mean that, but everybody.   

 

Father Gabriel is probably not much for cocktail parties.  Based on the previews, I think we get to see him soon.  And yeah, as someone else said upthread, it would have been cool to see Eugene interacting with these people.  The writers are missing out with this character I think.

 

If they'd just let the horse be he might have been okay.  I knew as soon as I saw him that a bad thing was going to happen because stupid humans can't just leave well enough alone.  What were they going to do with him anyway.   I guess they meant well (like that matters).

[peach]

Yeah, I've been out there way too long.

 

You can be in my group. 

[peach]

peach, can I watch at your house? It sounds fun. No one else in my house watches :(

 

It's very interactive.  lol  The more the merrier. 

[CarpeDiem54]

You can be in my group.

Will you feed me spaghetti? I know how to twirl it around my fork and use a napkin and everything. I may belch at the table, though.

[peach]

Will you feed me spaghetti? I know how to twirl it around my fork and use a napkin and everything. I may belch at the table, though.

 

Only if you agree to trust no one and hide extra guns no matter how many motorcycles they offer you. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Only if you agree to trust no one and hide extra guns no matter how many motorcycles they offer you. 

 

and don't follow people around expecting cookies?

[CarpeDiem54]

I think Deanna is scary because I think it's possible that she's not deluded.  She knows exactly or close to it what's been going on out there and she sees this as an opportunity to recreate the world the way she wants it to be.  ASZ seems a little Stepford-y to me.  Not just the women, i don't mean that, but everybody.

I think Douchebag Congresswoman is a typical politician. She sees what she wants and has decided how things are going to be and damn her constituents.

She may know some of what's out there but she doesn't care. Everything needs to go according to her plan. And she needs to be in charge.

Only if you agree to trust no one and hide extra guns no matter how many motorcycles they offer you.

You can count on me. I'll have a few extra machetes stashed, too.

[TrininisaScorp]

Pete vibes creepy to me...I don't know if he's an abuser or not, but something about him isn't okay with me. 

 

My two cents on the Rick/Jessie thing:  It feels clear that she is being set up as some sort of interest for Rick.  The kiss on the cheek wasn't overly inappropriate, but as a married woman, I'd feel a little strange if I man I've only met a few times kissed me on the cheek AND looked at me like that.  On her side, I feel like she tends to find her way into his space.  I wonder if she knows exactly what she's asking for or if she even realizes it herself.  She might be drawn to him b/c...she has eyes (hey, Andrew Lincoln, hey), but I'm not seeing serious chemistry there.   While I don't really ship on this show, I see more chemistry between him and other female characters in CDB.

 

Carol continues to rock it..I don't know if she handled that kid the right way, but I'll be damned if it wasn't scary and awesome.

 

Loved seeing Aaron/Eric and Darryl. Good to see Darryl open up a bit to someone outside of CDB and I hope Aaron can be trusted.

[Sofie Fatale]

The "A" reminds me of when they were in car "A" at terminus, waiting to be turned into meat.

Foreshadowing? *shrug

I like one tree hill dude for Sasha.

Jesse can die Now.

Michonne's katana is ironically hanging where all the generic katanas from flea markets are now hanging. I hate it.

[Hava]

also find it that hard to believe that two grown adults who both have teenagers and have held babies of Judith's age would be that awkward and delicate passing her off. Rick's been slogging her around like a sack of potatoes for the past two episodes.

 

 

WORD to this. First, thank you for calling out Rick for the way he has been holding Judith--no support at all! I wonder if that is how Andrew Lincoln is being directed to hold the baby, or if that is just how he holds babies, in which case, I would be livid if I were that baby's parents.

 

Second, that baby hand-off was truly awkward and unnecessary. Did they really  need to almost touch faces?

 

But, despite my complaints, I will say that I am reservedly enjoying the Rick/Jessie thing if only because Rick is super hot and seeing him in romantic/sexual situations has been a long time coming. (And I must say that the chemistry was lacking between Rick and Lori.)

[lawless]

Well, I'm late to the party because it took me so long to read everyone's posts, but here's my take on "the kiss:"  I didn't think it was abusive or predatory, and I definitely thought it was sexually charged, because I don't think Rick thought about what he was going to do at all.  I think he's been like a raw exposed nerve since Terminus (if not the fall of the Prison), which was only a month and half ago or so, and he just got a little drunk at the surreal cocktail party amongst the luckiest people on the planet earth, he let his guard down against his better judgment, and just gave in to his feelings for a moment, and only barely salvaged propriety at the last second.  Like a poster above, I think there was a moment in which he was going in for a kiss on the mouth and he managed to pull back and make it a more "chaste" socially acceptable cheek kiss at the last second.   

 

In fairness to Rick, only he, Daryl, Bob, and Glen were actually at the trough at Terminus and actually saw the butcher shop connected to it.  That has to scar a person, and it was relatively recent.  And since that time, they lost Bob horrifically and were hunted by the remaining Termites who were going to eat Rick's baby, for god's sake; they found Beth and then shockingly watched her get shot in the head by a fellow "cop" right in front of them; they found Noah's family but he learned that his mom and two adorable little brothers were slaughtered; and they lost Tyrese shockingly and horrifically while separated from the main group after heroic but futile efforts to save him; then they nearly expired on the road from lack of water, food, and shelter.  And they went from that to living in Alexandria, a/k/a, The Pottery Barn, with a politician, and urbane gay couple, some oldsters and irritating teens, and, oh yeah, Jessie.  It's completely surreal, and Sasha's behaviors show that.  I think that's what's happening with Rick too, it's just coming out slightly differently.  Rick has been a complete freak from the moment Aaron said hello.  While he's not wrong to be super cautious and careful, he hasn't been rationally cautious and careful (unlike Michonne, who, while perhaps a little overly trusting, has been pretty rational all things considered).  Like Sasha, the mental and emotional trauma is affecting him too, and it shows.

 

So in the middle of all this mental turmoil comes pretty, harmless, kind Jessie.  Relatively speaking, he doesn't seem to be afraid of her, and she's been very welcoming and nurturing to him.  I think the nurturing aspect is key for Rick, because he hasn't had anything of the sort in a really long time.  Things with Lori were bad from the get go, and everyone has looked to him for leadership, including Lori. Everyone in the group looks to him to guide them, and he does it, and at some level probably wants it that way, but it's a heavy load to carry and I think he feels personally responsible for every mistake and every lost group member.  In contrast, Jessie hasn't needed him, she comes with no emotional horror-story scars, and she keeps offering him comfort, softness and kindness.  It must be like a balm on an exposed nerve for Rick.  He definitely had his smolder look on in the kiss scene, and it was definitely intense.  But I didn't see it as predatory so much as just evidence of his terrible need to be comforted and intimate with someone who was both sexy and nurturing at the same time.  I don't think Rick even consciously knew he had such a need until Jessie started to fill it, and in the moment he lost control of himself a little.  I don't even know that it's a matter of Jessie being the right woman for Rick, it's that's she's been giving him the right thing in this moment.  The kiss was a hair's breadth away from incredibly socially inappropriate, but he pulled back and turned it into a kiss on the cheek just in time.

 

For Jessie's part, I think she kind of invited the intimacy. I've got two kiddos, and there are definitely ways to transfer a baby from arms to someone else's without getting into their personal space in that way.  They both moved Judith in a way to bring them into each other's space, because I think they both feel an attraction.  I think Jessie just didn't imagine Rick would turn it into a kiss like that, I think she was just going for a more subtle, small overture, and minute sharing of intimacy.  I don't think she minded being kissed by Rick, except for the problem it causes because she's married.  While Pete is weird and kind of passively aggressive, I don't know that I think he's abusive.  However, I definitely don't think their marriage is a happy one either.  Rick looked F.I.N.E., fine, at that party.  She noticed, and she liked it.

 

As for how I feel about Jessie -- eh, she's underwhelming as a new character, and since Rick has been without a love interest for so long, if she's the new one, so far she's disappointing -- but on the other hand, all of the Alexandrians are somewhat annoying because they'd led such a charmed life and don't even seem to know it.  But given that this show is a slaughterhouse, even if they get Jessie and Rick together, I doubt they'll grow old together, so I'll just tolerate it.  Maybe she'll get better, and if she's an excuse for Rick to look so smoking, well, that's fine.

 

But yes, reaching for the hidden gun came across as all kinds of psycho to me.  However, some of you guys have pointed out reasonable explanations, which is comforting.  I think the thing is that all of our group intuitively understand that this place just can't be as safe and secure as it seems, and as the people living there seem to think it is.  They have to have been incredibly lucky, and luck always runs out. But's a hell of a place to have, even temporarily, and it has the potential to be fortified and sustainable, if they can just do it in time before something horrible happens.  But they need to get on top of it immediately, and not dick around as constables and so on.

 

P.S. Lagertha freaking rocks, and she is my Vikings hero.  Hail Earl Ingstadd!!

Edited March 10, 2015 by lawless

[KayElektra]

Is it wrong that I'm more sad about Buttons than I was about Tyreese?

[lawless]

Is it wrong that I'm more sad about Buttons than I was about Tyreese?

I'm sad about them both, and about Beth.  I was never a big Beth fan, but I care about all our group members and feel bad when they die.  It's especially sad to have lost Tyrese and Beth when they were so close to this place.  I also think Rick might not have been quite such a freak if they hadn't just lost them in such unexpected and shocking manners.

 

Sasha was killing me this episode.  I really like her, and I really hope nothing bad happens to her.  She is smart, and gutsy, and hangs in there.  I completely related to her inability to handle that cocktail party where people who were leading a relatively pampered existence fussed about the most trivial, stupid things.  It's like being from District 12 in the Hunger Games and stepping into a party at the Capitol, almost.  And she's right that's it's not real in the sense that while the wall they built is important and has gotten them this far, it's been luck and/or divine providence that have really protected them, and it's bound to run out.  Also, are these morons even attempting to farm?  Just how long do they intend to live on "supplies" and what will they do if there is a storm that destroys them, or when they run out?  What exactly will this "commerce" Deanna imagines consist of?  While they've survived, they seem to be living in La La land.

 

Except that maybe Aaron gets it, kind of.  I wonder if he persuaded Deanna that they needed to take in people like Rick's group because he has a sense of how vulnerable they are.  Not that he or anyone could imagine the horrors of Terminus, or being attacked by a tank, but as a scout he seems to have a much better sense of what's really going on, and what happened (Sniff, Tyrese!).  By the way, I trust Aaron a lot more because he's in a relationship with Eric than I would if Aaron were single.  Eric is a sweet, kind, ray of light.  Which I assume means he's not long for this world.  Show, please surprise me!  If Eric loves and trusts Aaron, then I guess Aaron must be ok, despite the fact that he comes across as a bit too much of an operator.  I do like the Daryl-Aaron team.  I hope Daryl teaches Aaron lots of survival stuff, and that Aaron continues to patiently accept Daryl for who he is.

 

By the way, I did think that Maggie is making some effort to ease things for the group members who are struggling. She picked up on Noah's struggles at the party, and she quickly covered for Sasha's crazy watchtower volunteering by saying she's a great shot, so putting her up there is just logical, not at all dangerous and crazy, hee!  I hope that continues.  We didn't get insight into all of their thoughts, but Abraham said out loud exactly what Michonne was thinking, basically, because he's having the same struggle.  What a wonderful, awful cocktail party to watch.