S05.E09: A Moorland Holiday (Christmas Special)

[poeticlicensed]

The house and costume porn were gorgeous. I do appreciate that we see the same costumes more than once. The castle were they visited Atticus' parents was beautiful. 

 

I am so over the Anna/Bates drama. Please stop. 

 

I assume that moving to America means that Tom and Rose won't be back next season. I like Tom, but his character was played out. The only storyline would have been him hooking up with Mary. I'm glad that didn't happen because I find it creepy. 

[peggy06]

Now that is a Christmas special. Feel-good but not overly hokey. They didn't do some of the things I feared: Robert didn't die or have a heart attack; Mary and Tom didn't end up together; Tom didn't change his plans. They did some good things I didn't expect: Carson and Mrs. Hughes (Carson is a lucky man); Robert had a heart-to-heart with Edith; Rose changed her father-in-law's mind.

 

Violet restored my faith - she had a good plan all along but couldn't resist enjoying the moment. I liked her explanation to Isobel; it all made sense and was very much in character for Violet. I was sorry for Isobel, but she made the right decision. I never got the idea she was in love with Lord Merton, more that she liked him and it would have been a comfortable new life for her. But she was right that it never would have been comfortable with the obnoxious sons against her.

 

I generally roll my eyes over the Bates saga, but what a good plot twist to have Molesley and Baxter doggedly inquiring at pubs for him. And they didn't make it something corny, like the third or fourth place was the one - it appears to have taken months. Let's hope Bates and Anna can keep out of jail for a while, and maybe just have some semblance of normal life.

 

I've really grown to like Rose. Too bad she's leaving. I know her character was rewritten, but Lily James brings such a sweetness and light to the character that I can't help preferring the new Rose. Also, I love her wardrobe - that dress she wore in the scene of the drawing-room crisis was just lovely.

 

Speaking of clothing: say what you want about Mary, but she wears the clothes amazingly well, and her wardrobe is divine. Edith also looks great, but Mary looks outstanding. I wish they would get off this thing of her openly insulting Edith; if it's intended to be joking, the joke is too near the truth to be anything but unpleasant to listen to. Perhaps they are laying it on so that when she finds out about Marigold, she can feel extra terrible about herself. I did note that Mary is interested in a man who doesn't seem to be bowled over by her a la her usual swains. Wonder if Talbot will be reappearing next season. I'd be willing to bet he will. And I wonder if the agent will come a-calling on Edith. Happy Edith is so much more attractive than sad-sack Edith. I really, really wish they could ditch the whole "ward" thing, but it is 1924.

 

I'll admit it: I got a little choked up when they joined hands to remember Sybil. And I was never even much of a Sybil fan.

 

OK, who thinks Denker's broth was awful, but Violet didn't want Spratt to get the upper hand in that little drama?

 

Color me pleasantly surprised at the episode, definitely one of my favorites of the season.

Edited March 2, 2015 by peggy06

[DietCokeJunkie]

 

 

QUOTE

I wonder who wrote the fake letter.

Thomas did. He disguised his handwriting.

I don't think so.  It was implied that Baxter wrote the letter.  When she told Thomas that Mary wanted him to bring the rude butler down a peg, Thomas told Baxter to get pencil and paper and come with him. 

[CleoCaesar]

Mmm Matthew Goode. Some of my favorite English eye/ear candy. More of him, please. I think he will be unlikely to take any of Mary's crap. Bring it on.

 

I never keep up with the comings and goings of DA actors (Matthew's death was a huge shock to me), so I am surprised they actually wrote Tom off the show. I thought he would end up staying. He's a real wet blanket, constantly whining about how he's a socialist and just doesn't fit in with his rich family wah wah wah. But I find the actor very funny and will sort of miss Tom.

 

Oh look, more misery for the Bates....     

[bmoore4026]

Carson and Mrs. Hughes - the true love story of Downton Abbey.  I want things to work out for them.

 

Also, I want a spin-off involving Baxter and Mosley solving crimes in their spare time.

 

And sorry, Mary, after you don't get a free pass from me for that little prayer to Sybil.  I so wanted a Dynasty-esque throwdown between Mary and Edith while they were all walking along the riverbank.

 

Thomas, you are the king of wickedness and I love you for it.  Wish you could be my boyfriend.  I could be the light to your darkness.  Hope you don't mind morbid obesity.

 

Bates, stop being so goddamn noble!  There was a dark part of me hoping that, at the end after Christmas, Daisy would walk into the kitchen with a telegram stating that John Bates was shot over the Sea of Japan (and the camera panning the room of the servants in shock and Baxter crying and Mrs. Patmore continuing to cook, withholding her emotions).  But, then he showed up at the end and took Anna in his arms and my heart melted.  My softyness overcame my mean-spirited fantasyness.

 

It would have been perfect if the mean butler (anti-Carson) who ran Rose's future in-laws manor was paired up with Jenny Galloway.  Thenardiers 4evr!

 

I thought the Russian Princess (or Anti-Dowager as I call her) was played by Olympia Dukakis.  But I looked up (thank you, TVTropes) and she was not.  She played indignant bitch real well, though.  Isobel's comment to the princess of hoping to visit Russia in the future cracked me the hell up.

 

Also, TV Tropes said there was supposed to be a wedding in the Season Five finale, but there was.  Guessing PBS is saving that for the Season Six premiere.  Dick move, PBS.  Dick move.

 

And doesn't Spratt have the most smooshable looking face?

 

Lastly, fare-thee-well, Tom.  We'll miss you and Sybie and you perfect hair and your cute face.  I'm sure you Irishness and Marxist views will make you very, very, very welcome here in America.

 

And Rose?  I didn't want you to be left out, so I dedicate this song to you:

Edited March 2, 2015 by bmoore4026

[Eegah]

I'm calling it: Fellowes has no idea who killed Greene.

[Rhetorica]

I thought it was a good episode.

Smiles:

Carson's proposal to Mrs Hughes 

Robert and Edith's talk 

Evil Barrows

Isobel and Violet's chats

Rose saving her father-in-law

Frowns: 

Bates storyline 

The Prince and Princess

Atticus' family and servant drama 

Mary's new suitor 

Denker and Ditto (sorry I can't remember his name) 

[photo fox]

Golly, what an episode.

So much to love. I haven't laughed and smiled so much during Downton since forever.

[HoodlumSheep]

Pleasant episode all around. Loved Thomas using his evil for good; also I've been loving his new found niceness (or nicer-ness) in the past few episodes.

I'm all for a detective Mosely/baxter spin-off. Thomas can be a reoccurring character on their show, like the go-to outside source.

How can everyone repay them? They can be crowned the new head butler/housemaid once Carson and Hughes retires.

So now everyone knows about Marigold except for Mary. I'll take a wild guess and say that when she finds out she'll be more than excepting, or will at least act a whole lot better than what people think she'll behave like.

Blah on Carson and Hughes/ Bates problems.

Talbot seems promising, even though I'll never be over Evelyn.

The Agent guy and Edith were cute. I liked him instantly better than Gregson. He seems to be the "Edith" of his family. Maybe two Ediths make a right? Or at least a happy ending?

As an Isobel/Clarkson shipper I'm glad Isobel didn't go through with it, but I do feel bad for him. He seemed to really love her.

I knew Violet/Prince K. Wouldn't happen! Proud of Violet for doing the right thing. That princess is a real witch.

Love the Denka/Spratt feud. They crack me up.

Got teary eyed within the last ten minutes from all the goodbyes and such.

[annzeepark914]

I can't believe I've got to wait almost another year for more Downton Abbey.  This is deee-pressing!  The Christmas Special was good.  Other than the sadsack Bates saga, I really enjoyed this season finale.  Relieved that Isobel turned down Lord Merton's proposal (his sons deserve a conniving, truly evil stepmom).  Very glad the Russians are gone (hopefully for good).  And I must say that Rose, this past season, has been the light of the show and if she's leaving DA (and thus was written out via her move to NY) I'll be sad.  I couldn't stand her character the first two seasons but thankfully that changed this year.  I'm hoping Rose will return.  I have to admit I'll be glad to see Tom move away.  This character was given less interesting lines than the employees downstairs.  I don't think JF really knew what to do with Tom after Sybil died.

[Crs97]

I'm calling it: Fellowes has no idea who killed Greene.

 

 

I am shocked, shocked you are saying that.  The killer is so obvious:  Greene was a valet by day, numbers runner by night.  Along with his interest in raping women, he was also a bit of a gambler and got into trouble with some heavy hitters.  He got out of debt by blackmailing a jockey into taking a fall on an important race, but the officials were on to the jockey and banned him for life.  Also, the fall left him with a terrible leg injury so he's lost his livelihood and can't find another job.  Short, delicate person who might have been limping?  That's why the police had to narrow it down between Mr. or Mrs. Bates.

 

Now, also, the jockey has a half-sister (same father, different mother) who grew up next door to Anna's stepfather.  She remembered the watch being called that night and told the jockey all about the incident in a letter way back when.  So when the jockey realized the police weren't letting go of the case (because Greene was also a secret spy who might have been a double agent so they have to solve the murder by any and all means necessary to insure government secrets haven't been compromised), he got the stepfather drunk and convinced him to give up the story about Anna's past.

 

It's like Fellowes has been drawing us a map to this conclusion all season long.

[CinAZ]

I loved the Carson/ Mrs Hughes proposal, got a little teary over that one...

I didn't mind Mary this time, she might have met her match with the newest suitor.

I really liked the way the Crawleys stuck by Rose and backed up her story about being friends with the mistress.

I may be alone in thinking this but I hope they are able to get a new child actress to play Marigold for season 6. The child playing her just looks so miserable all the time... Kinda like Edith, I suppose.

Anyway, I enjoyed it.

It will be a long 10 months...

Forgot to mention.. SO OVER the endless Bates drama.

Stop.it.

Edited March 2, 2015 by CinAZ

[helenamonster]

The Carson/Mrs. Hughes proposal was so, so sweet. I'm wondering if they'll keep the whole thing on the DL for awhile, though, at least while they're both still working there. I can't see Carson wanting the staff to see him as anything other than a clear-headed, possibly asexual (though he wouldn't use that term) ruler. But then when they feel ready, they can both go skip off to their home together.

 

The dress porn, as always, was on point tonight. Laura Carmichael looked beautiful, especially in the scene with her hair down when Edith and Donk were talking. Edith might be dead to me, but LC can get it.

 

Hogwarts! It's too bad Violet didn't go, they could have worked a meta comment in there somehow.

 

Rose was smooth as hell covering up the mistress thing. I'm so surprised how much I'm going to miss her.

 

I liked both Mary's and Edith's potential new suitors. I wonder if the love of fast cars Mary's has will come into play, given how Matthew died. That has potential to be rather poignant, since the show seems to have all but forgotten that Matthew ever existed.

 

The Denker/Spart plotline was whatever, but it was worth it for Denker's "You're a dreary man" at the end.

 

As I sit at my table of one of still loving Anna with all my heart (and still caring about Bates, kind of, but I'll get to that in a second), OH MY GOD, SHOW. Victimize her more, why don't you? I literally yelled out "Oh Jesus Fucking Christ!" when she started the story about how her stepfather molested her. Why, Show? Sometimes I can't decide if Fellowes loves JoFro or if she kicked his puppy sometime during the filming of S3 and this is how he's decided to get his revenge. Why does she need to be a repeat victim of sexual assault? And as a child? Whywhywhywhywhy? Also, the Green plotline? Still not resolved! Either one of the Bateses could be re-arrested at any minute next season! Why is this still hanging over them? But, yOU KNOW WHAT. Bates coming back at the end and scooping Anna up into a hug (she's so tiny!) fucking got me. Their dreary plotlines really try their patience with me when it comes to them as a couple, but when they're allowed to be happy I can't help but get all fangirly. S6 better start with some kind of line like "Thank God they found the person who really killed Green: one of his former victims." May they be happy, for the love of all that is holy.

 

Eh, while I liked Isobel and Lord Merton, she had a very good reason for saying no. So, um, what's Dr. Clarkson been up to lately?

 

Molesley and Baxter were super awesome with their detective work. Hopefully they and the Bateses can put all the nastiness behind them and go out on double dates. Please?

 

Ok, I either want Thomas or Daisy to end up with Andy, depending on his sexuality.

 

The moment with Tom, Mary, and Edith in the nursery was very sweet. And awwww, Tipsy!Donk. Sybbie is too fucking cute. I'm gonna miss her and Tom.

 

Edited: Because Tom and Thomas are two different characters with two very different sexualities.

Edited March 2, 2015 by helenamonster

[Badger]

There was a wedding in the Season 5 finale: Rose and Atticus.  Don't forget that in the UK, episode 8 was the season finale, not Episode 9 which was their Christmas episode.  

 

I  predicted Hughes and Carson getting married years ago so that didn't surprise me at all.  It'll be interesting to see if Season 6 starts with them already married or if a wedding will be part of the next season.  The proposal was very very sweet though.  

 

ITA that Miss Baxter wrote the note. 

 

As for Anna and Mr. Bates, the witness had second thoughts about seeing her so my guess is the case is closed once again.  Hopefully.  

 

ETA: I think you mean Thomas, Helenamonster.  Tom and Thomas are two completely different characters.  

 

I'm pretty sure Andy the footman is there for Daisy. 

 

Also, I'm thinking that the guy Edith was interested in will turn out also to be a "Marigold."  Like maybe he's the illegitimate son of the guy the Sinderbys were renting Brancaster Castle from

 

My take on Green is that he ran into one of his victims who reacted pretty much the way you would expect her to react.    Anyway, he was so flustered, that he wasn't paying attention and tripped into the street and got runover.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Badger

[Crs97]

Speaking of clothes porn, I want the red coat Mary wore to visit Anna.  That was a thing of beauty!

[helenamonster]

I thought the direction for this episode was awesome. There were some really nice scene changes, and a couple times where we saw conversations between Violet and Isobel in the background with beautiful flowers in the foreground. The director's name looked new to me when it showed up in the credits, I'll have to check to see if they have ever directed an episode before. If not, I hope they're brought back next season. This show can generally be relied on for its cinematography but tonight was something special.

[Kristen]

Between Carson's proposal, Tom, Edith, and Mary's Sybil Circle, and Lord G being sentimental about Tom (FINALLY. I mean, I like Tom a lot, but shit or get off the pot, buddy.) leaving, my little black heart was melting. Too bad I didn't have any restorative broth on hand for the occasion.

[LittleIggy]

Guess I'm in the minority, but I don't think Isobel did the right thing. Those sons are grown ass men. Who their father marries is none of their damn business. All they have to do is be civil to her when they visit dad.

[honeywest]

I didn't realize till I checked IMDB that Alun Armstrong was the castle butler and Jane Lapotaire was the princess--double Nicholas Nickleby!

 

I do like the Bateses and wish Fellowes would leave them in peace, but didn't Bates know better than to sneak up on Anna?

 

Since the Grey brothers are incapable of being civil even in public, Isobel is well out of that engagement.

[Llywela]

Also, TV Tropes said there was supposed to be a wedding in the Season Five finale, but there was.  Guessing PBS is saving that for the Season Six premiere.  Dick move, PBS.  Dick move.

There was a wedding in the S5 finale - Rose and Atticus. You saw that last week. This episode was the Christmas special, not the season finale.

[Andorra]

Was I the only one who found it very weird that they took a "moment to remember Sybil" and not once mentioned Matthew? It's so weird that Tom talks about Sybil in almost every single episode since she died and if he doesn't anyone else from the family mentions her, but we got not one single mentioning of Matthew's name in series 5?

 

I bet Julian Felllows is still pissed at Dan Stevens.

 

I know I'm in the minority here, but I hated the Christmas Special. I was devastated that Tom left even though Allen Leech wants to stay with the show. Luckily it's obvious now, that Tom will return pretty early in series 6, so I'm feeling better.

 

But I hated that he never got a good storyline in series4 or 5. He just stood around saying "I don't belong here". Why did Fellows torture us with this awful Edna and Bunting? Why didn't he just give Tom a NICE lady to love? Some progressive, but lovely female, who would scandalize the Crawleys?

 

Instead we got "I don't belong here, I think I must leave" for 2 years! And then he left. Wow, what a progress. What a character development! I thought it would have been more character development if he had just found out: "I DO belong here. I AM part of this family and I CAN make a life here."

 

I HATED Carson Hughes. Really, that is such a soapy fanfiction story, it makes me lose my breakfast. They were a wonderful couple as the couple that was married while not being married and now they have to get this soapy love story ending. Urgh.

 

The Greene case is still not resolved and we will AGAIN be tortured with it in series 6. How marvellous. I really hate the Bates by now. I got the creeps about their "reunion" in the last scene. Really, Anna. This husband of yours is SO creepy! Awful, awful.

 

Hated the stupid soup story. So much screentime for Spratt and Denker, why?

 

I loved the scenery, but why so much story on Lord Sinderby? Who cares about these new characters? Give us decent storylines for the old ones instead!

 

Daisy moped around. Something we have seen all season. BOOORING!

 

Matthew Goode was the only good thing in this episode. He screamed endgame to me and I'm sure he'll be back and will sweep Mary off her feet.

[izabella]

Guess I'm in the minority, but I don't think Isobel did the right thing. Those sons are grown ass men. Who their father marries is none of their damn business. All they have to do is be civil to her when they visit dad.

 

I think Isobel believed they wouldn't be civil, and didn't want to have to deal with that.

 

Loved Rose's swift thinking!  I'm really going to miss her.

[madam magpie]

Isobel and Violet are the best couple on this show!

I really hope Tom/Sybbie come back next year. Rose/Atticus too.

It was nice to see Edith happy. And I'll admit, I got a little teary when she, Tom, and Mary were remembering Sybil. Then I got teary again when Carson told Mrs. Hughes about the house and proposed.

The thing with Anna and Bates is so absurd. I don't have anything to say about that nonsense, but I'm glad they were happy at the end at least.

Edited March 2, 2015 by madam magpie

[Lillybee]

I loved that Robert said that Marigold can call him Donk.

[magdalene]

That was my favorite episode in a long time. It was much more enjoyable than the rest of the season to me. I do hope that Tom comes back soon.  I also hope this is not the last we have seen of Henry Talbot - he and Mary have such chemistry.

[photo fox]

Guess I'm in the minority, but I don't think Isobel did the right thing. Those sons are grown ass men. Who their father marries is none of their damn business. All they have to do is be civil to her when they visit dad.

I see what you mean, but I think she did the right thing for her. Who wants to spend their years being sniped at in their own home? It's clear that Lord Merton - while charming - lacks either the desire or the wherewithal to rein them in. And Isobel never seemed particularly swept away to me, so I think she just weighed the pros and cons and decided he wasn't worth the aggravation.

[Lillybee]

I don't think that the footman Andy is for Daisy, I believe that she has grown away from having fantasies about footmen. It seems that Daisy has outgrown her station in life. I would love if a decent farmer decided to court Daisy. She deserves better than a footman.

[albaniantv]

I must have missed where "Donk" came from --is it one of the kids mispronouncing something or something they made up? 

 

Loved this episode -- absence of Rose and Tom will be large next year. I liked the warmth and symmetry of the 3 kids in the nursery, one for each parent in the house. I think Sybbie will miss her sibs dreadfully and Tom won't find it easy to deal with that. Even tho Mary is relentlessly catty towards Edith, the essence of her comments about Tom's leaving are true --he's the bridge, the balance, the guy in the middle, that makes it easier for all the family members (and some of the downstairs crowd) to connect.

 

I don't get Fellowes' batty obsession with the crime cloud following Bates and Anna --it just doesn't ring true like his other stories and I don't know why he persists in reintroducing it every damn year.

 

Love this show, and recognize Julian Fellowes is mainly responsible, but don't feel that critiquing some aspects is in any way disrespectful. In fact, I rather think that's the point of this whole website--a place to air opinions, snark, critiques, complaints, accolades and ask questions. All in all, I liked the name Television without Pity because it was a good description of what to expect. Previously TV is a great space, but, the name is a bit wet, IMHO of course.

[Andorra]

Was I the only one who yelled at the TV when we now learned that Anna got sexually abused in her childhood on top of everything?!!! Wbat a completely stupid idea.

[Micks Picks]

I'm weary of Mary. She snarks better than we do. Look to her as the master snarked.

Since the next season is said to be 4 years later, 1926, the Bates various legal crap should be far over. And Tom and Rose and Atticus could come back far before they were stuck with the 1929 stock crash. I have no interest in Mary or Edith's love lives.

Daisy lacks so much emotional maturity that I consider her to be blindly unkind, unappreciative, self absorbed and so resistant to the love shown by her father in law and Mrs Patmore, as well as shamed by the love shown by William that I don't care what happens to her. Ungrateful, unfeeling wrench.

[Avaleigh]

Since the next season is said to be 4 years later, 1926, the Bates various legal crap should be far over. And Tom and Rose and Atticus could come back far before they were stuck with the 1929 stock crash.

Where does it say that the next season is set four years later? I thought we were in 1924 as of this Christmas Special?

Edited March 2, 2015 by Avaleigh

[ScoobieDoobs]

Was I the only one who yelled at the TV when we now learned that Anna got sexually abused in her childhood on top of everything?!!! Wbat a completely stupid idea.

 

 

Sheesh, what's next from Anna's past?  I shudder to think.  OK, it wasn't just that it was yet another obvious attempt for JF to dump on Anna's misery.  To me, it was 1 of 2 really over-the-top moments in this ep.  This one I hated.  The other I didn't hate, but thought the result was unbelieveable.  I'm referring to Lord Sinderby's mistress & illegitimate son showing up & his panicked reaction.  

 

First off, Sinderby's reaction to this seemed very uncharacteristic for such a cool cat.  But that's not what bothered me.  Btw, I luved how Rose behaved cuz that girl is simply awesome & it was sweet how Sinderby finally recognized her awesomeness.  OK, so he suddenly turned into the nicest guy ever?  Er, huh?  Would finding a mistress of Donald Trump or some other fiendish rich bigshot turn them into nice guys?  Me doubts it.  But I'm twirling my non-existent moustache, Thomas-style, & pondering the possibilities. 

 

I don't think that the footman Andy is for Daisy, I believe that she has grown away from having fantasies about footmen. It seems that Daisy has outgrown her station in life. I would love if a decent farmer decided to court Daisy. She deserves better than a footman.

 

 

Storyline for next season -- Daisy goes after Andy & he's not interested, so then Thomas makes his move.  He is Andy's "Uncle" Thomas now after all, right?

 

OK, so just why did Vi fake that she liked Denker's really crappy-looking soup?  Is it that she's entertained by the 2 of them fighting?  Kinda delish, if ya ask me.  Evil, but still delish.  Sure, Denker & Spratt are useless & annoying, but they set up some great lines for Vi.

 

I sorta liked Vi's story of her being a big ole tramp 50 years ago -- and yet I couldn't help feeling JF borrowed way too much from Anna Karenina.

 

Izzy's reason for getting out of the engagement seem perfectly believeable to me.  The actual reason she gave, I think it was she didn't want to be the cause of fighting between him & his sons?  Well, Izzy is such a kind woman, I can believe this.

 

I didn't get the impression at all Izzy was "bullied" by the awful sons into backing away.  That's really not her style.  Even at her age, she still seems up for a good fight when she believes strongly in something.  It might be possible she didn't feel strongly enough about Murton to fight the sons.  And I also think age played a big factor.  At 45 or 50, you might effortlessly tell PITA adults kids of an impending spouse to get lost.  It's just not the same at 70 or 75.  

 

She's in her '70's & if the horrible sons were not around, her life with Dickie could be very comfortable & even quite nice.  But I suspect these 2 awful characters would make their presence known & make their lives miserable.  Who would wanna have to deal with this kinda stress & misery in the last 10 or 15 years of life?  Sounds absolutely awful to me.  Izzy doesn't need Murton.  She has a comfortable life.  She liked him well enough  But I never got the feeling she was crazy in love with him -- or even in love with him at all.  I must admit I liked them together, but maybe JF thought the marriage would interfere with the Izzy/Vi friendship?  Well, can't have that!

 

Anyhoo, this storyline, I bought.  And anything that keeps the Vi & Izzy act goin' strong is A-OK with me.

Edited March 2, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[Andorra]

BTW, one of the rfew scenes I liked in this episode was when Tom confronted Edith about Marigold and told her that "there were quite a few Marigolds where I grew up". It shows that he is very intuitive, very discrete and it shows how much more worldly wisdom he has through his background.

[LaChavalina]

First off, Sinderby's reaction to this seemed very uncharacteristic for such a cool cat.  But that's not what bothered me.  Btw, I luved how Rose behaved cuz that girl is simply awesome & it was sweet how Sinderby finally recognized her awesomeness.  OK, so he suddenly turned into the nicest guy ever?  Er, huh?  Would finding a mistress of Donald Trump or some other fiendish rich bigshot turn them into nice guys?  Me doubts it.  But I'm twirling my non-existent moustache, Thomas-style, & pondering the possibilities. 

Yeah, that was weird. I get that it was engineered so that Diana and her son would show up at the most inconvenient time, but why would Lord S.'s servants allow uninvited/unannounced guests to be escorted right into the middle of a party? Why did we see not one cross word uttered to Thomas about it, though Mary clearly recognized it was his doing? And why did it seem to make Lord S. so jovial with everyone after? Like, "my children and grandchildren will never be fully accepted into the Jewish community... But you did me a solid this time so it's OK." Huh? I also don't give high marks to Rose for being so loving to him after seeing he's clearly a hypocritical dirtbag. She's happy to keep the mistress and the illegitimate baby brother a secret from her husband in exchange for his acceptance? OK, then.

 

Also, ITA with the commenter upthread who said Violet thought the broth was awful. It was written on her face when she declined to eat more than a spoonful and turned to walk out of the room.

 

Not bad overall, but given how boring a lot of this season was, I was happy to see some things get shaken up.

[Eolivet]

Was I the only one who found it very weird that they took a "moment to remember Sybil" and not once mentioned Matthew? It's so weird that Tom talks about Sybil in almost every single episode since she died and if he doesn't anyone else from the family mentions her, but we got not one single mentioning of Matthew's name in series 5?

 

I bet Julian Felllows is still pissed at Dan Stevens.

 

There was an article a couple months back that said exactly that: Matthew's name will never be mentioned onscreen again, per Fellowes and the producers. Hence only the "my late husband" reference.

 

My personal feelings about Dan Stevens aside, I think it serves somewhat of a practical purpose. Mary's suitors have been unmitigated disasters: a clingy manchild turned wet blanket and a fabulously gay (not really, just kidding) scheming galpal. If the first rule of politics is never mention your opponent by name, I can see why they don't want to remind viewers that Mary once did have a suitor the audience actually liked.

 

I agree that Matthew Goode is Mary's endgame, and visually, they set it up well: he was in a shooting scene and a dancing scene in the Christmas Special, similar to Matthew three years (!) ago. And I could feel the glee through the screen when Henry jumped into that snappy chariot. Mary's going to fall in love with a car enthusiast, so the narrative actually supports Henry being better than her husband (because if Matthew was a better driver, in Downton world, he'd still be alive). Aww, Fellowes -- your petty grudges give me life.

 

I'm glad I'm not alone in finding Carson/Hughes really weird -- though I think that's Fellowes doling out rewards to his loyal cast. I know Jim Carter is a big fan of Carson/Hughes. So...basically fanservice, which is how it played. Couldn't stand Kuragin and his sour-faced wife, and rolled my eyes so hard at Spratt/Denker.

 

Yet, three months later, I'm still left with a general positive feeling about it -- which means while there were parts I really didn't like, it was still enjoyable. And that's a good thing. Singing to Branson/Leech also felt like fanservice, but in a cute way. Like "We know you're not supposed to still be here, Tom -- thanks for sticking around!"

[LateJuliet]

There was a wedding in the S5 finale - Rose and Atticus. You saw that last week. This episode was the Christmas special, not the season finale.

 

I guess I'm confused...to me a Christmas special would be be a stand alone episode that doesn't impact the larger arc of the stories or introduce anything important so if you miss it no harm/no foul.  This to me was a season finale - is it not called that because there's a break in the UK between E8 and this?

 

Oy the dumb soup story line - even the Dowager Countess was facepalming over the ridiculousness with her servants.

 

 

OH MY GOD, SHOW. Victimize her more, why don't you? I literally yelled out "Oh Jesus Fucking Christ!" when she started the story about how her stepfather molested her. Why, Show?

 

No kidding, I literally LOLd when they went there.  I'm sure she'll be consumptive next season.

 

Speaking of lonely tables, I'll sit over here at mine being unhappy about Carson and Mrs. Hughes.  It was out of left field and I loved that they were professional allies and supportive friends, much the same way I love Tom's dynamic with Mary and Edith.  It's not necessary that a close relationship between someone with a Tab A and another with a Slot B must automatically morph into romance.  It could just as well have been Carson puts her on the deed saying they're partners - he'll put in the money and she'll earn her equity helping him in finding contractors, managing the B&B, and supervising the maid of all work.

 

Overall a satisfying episode though.  I'll miss Tom, Sybbie and Rose but I suspect with the time jump (however long it is) we'll get at least the former two back at Downton at some point.

[Llywela]

I guess I'm confused...to me a Christmas special would be be a stand alone episode that doesn't impact the larger arc of the stories or introduce anything important so if you miss it no harm/no foul.  This to me was a season finale - is it not called that because there's a break in the UK between E8 and this?

Season 5 encompassed episodes 1-8, episode 8 was the season finale. Then there was a break before the Christmas special aired.

 

I don't think you get Christmas specials with American shows, hence the confusion, but they are very common with ongoing British shows. The Christmas special forms part of the ongoing storyline, but is also a standalone episode that is not aired as part of the seasonal run. The Christmas special looks to you like a season finale because it was aired as such by BBCA, but it was not written or originally aired as the season finale. Episode 8 was the season finale. A Moorland Holiday was the standalone Christmas special.

[RedHawk]

Moseley and Baxter visiting every pub in York on their days off to find an alibi for Bates? Now there's a couple who know how to have fun!

Ok, I cried during Mary's ridic prayer. Thanks, Tom, for that lovely moment and for bringing Edith and Mary into the magic circle where they actually are united in their love for Sybil -- and Tom. Good callback to the scene by Sybil's deathbed where Mary refused Edith's offer of sisterly sympathy.

Violet got her revenge on the Princess. She probably was happier emptying bedpans and bunking with other Russian refugee princesses than she will be now that she's been reunited with her loving husband.

Carson and Hughes. How unexpected. Yawn.

Bates and Bates. How tiresome. Yawn.

Soup.

I'm still in it for the clothes. And "Donk".

[stopeslite]

It's interesting how Edith seems so much more at ease with everyone, even Mary, in this episode. I don't know if it was Fellowes not remembering how Edith is supposed to act, or Laura saying to heck with it, or actually supposed to be that Edith is now completely fulfilled since she has Marigold with her, but it was nice to see her not be upset all of the time and even laugh off some of Mary's barbs. I noticed after Mary said "don't leave me here with just Edith" that Edith actually did a little side-eye and SMH move at her. Heh. 

 

Still annoyed at Fellowes' trait of doing a time jump of a few months, but keeping everybody in the middle of the exact same conversations like they were frozen in time. 

 

I also thought that Violet and Isobel were a lot more easy and open with each other. Nice to see their relationship progressing like that. I almost audibly cheered when Violet pulled Isobel in the side room so they could get away from the crowd together - so conspiratorial and friendly. :)  Even half a season ago, it would have been Violet in there, and she would sigh in annoyance if Isobel dared to come in after and try to share the space. 

[RedHawk]

<<<I must have missed where "Donk" came from --is it one of the kids mispronouncing something or something they made up? >>>

It came out of nowhere and was never explained. Early on Robert asked the room "Why does she call me 'Donk'?" and eveyone shrugged because he was missing the obvious -- he's a donk!

My theory is that the little actress cleverly improvised in a bid to become a fan favorite and Fellowes ran with it. It's much to clever for him to have thought up.

[LateJuliet]

Christmas special forms part of the ongoing storyline, but is also a standalone episode that is not aired as part of the seasonal run. The Christmas special looks to you like a season finale because it was aired as such by BBCA, but it was not written or originally aired as the season finale. Episode 8 was the season finale. A Moorland Holiday was the standalone Christmas special.

 

But it doesn't really stand alone I don't think - without it, a viewer would start S6 wondering why Carson and Mrs. Hughes are married, where Rose and Atticus went, when and how Anna got out of jail (if you gave a tinker's damn, that is), and why the infatuated Prince Kirov disappeared.

[stopeslite]

On Isobel and Merton - I don't think either of the boys are married, right? Which, again, eligible men in their 30s post WWI and haven't been snapped up yet? It must be that their personalities are visible to everyone. So I think that would mean that if Isobel married Merton, they'd all be living together in the big house. She'd have to deal with those prats constantly. Maybe he could tell them the only way they'll inherit is if they go to America now and don't come back for the next 20 years.

[Constantinople]

She's in her '70's & if the horrible sons were not around, her life with Dickie could be very comfortable & even quite nice.

Which leads to the obvious question, why has no one spoken to Bates about "taking care" of Lord Merton's sons?

And if Mrs Hughes was worried about her retirement because she must take care of her institutionalized sister, she knows who to call.

For that matter, Edith might want to see how many heirs there are between the current Lord Hexum and his third cousin, the estate agent. Mr. Pelham. One or two Bates specials wouldn't be amiss. It certainly wouldn't be the first time in this series that a distant relative stood to inherit a lordship.

[Malaprop cocktail]

Yeah, that was weird. I get that it was engineered so that Diana and her son would show up at the most inconvenient time, but why would Lord S.'s servants allow uninvited/unannounced guests to be escorted right into the middle of a party? Why did we see not one cross word uttered to Thomas about it, though Mary clearly recognized it was his doing?

 

Agree and agree! Diana was horrified to be dumped in the middle of a party--she was expecting, per the telegram, that Lord S. would be alone. This entire plot contrivance relied on her not being told "Lord Sinderby is entertaining" when she showed up at the door, and on her not being announced so that Rose could save the day by pretending to know her. Neither of which seem to ring true, at all.

 

And there were no consequences to Thomas or Mary from it, which was annoying. I get that Sinderby and the butler were assholes, but this stunt was completely out of proportion, and someone should have called them out for it, especially for the degree to which it inconvenienced (and, had it worked, would have exposed) Diana and an innocent young child. I hated how Mary just sighed and told Donk that she'd recruited Thomas to take Sinderby the butler down a peg, and Donk just kind of rolled his eyes, and that was that.

 

Switching gears a bit, the broth story. This was one of the strangest things I've ever seen on television.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Malaprop cocktail

[Zahdii]

Miss Denker's broth had to have been horrific.  Too bad Violet didn't insist that Spratt and Denker each have a bowl so it didn't go to waste.  Maybe then they'd stop their annoying antics.

 

If the show does make a four year time jump, I hope we'll find the following has happened while we were away:

 

Let the Bateses have a child or two, although I doubt Anna would be Mary's ladies maid once children start arriving, so I don't know what they'll do with the character.  They could just move to their London house and Bates could work for Edith.

 

Have Edith married to that fellow she liked in the Christmas episode, and they've formally adopted Marigold and have since had another child to add to the nursery.

 

Couldn't care much about Mary, but she'll still be swanning around Downton looking down her nose at people and making cutting remarks to Edith every time she sees her.

 

I hope to find Tom returns from America to live again at Downton.  It's possible that he finds he doesn't really fit in with his family in America, so why not get Sybbie back to Downton to be raised in luxury and surrounded by people who love her and accept her father?  But if he returns I hope he brings with him his lovely young wife and a child or two.  I'd like her to be smart, and witty, and able to put Mary in her place every time Mary starts flinging out zingers.  There's great potential in figuring out where to put the new family, because they really shouldn't be living in the Abbey.  There'll be problems integrating Sybbie back into Downton after being away and returning with an American step-mother and non-titled siblings.

 

Robert will have a new dog.  Cora will still be Cora.  Rose and Atticus are off being happily married.  Violet and Isobel are still besties, although Isobelle might be married to Dr. Clarkson by then, but he'd know enough to make no attempt to interfer with that friendship.  Wouldn't mind seeing Spratt and Denker have retired, died, run off together, or anything else that gets them gone.  Wouldn't mind if Thomas were gone, but if he stays let him keep his more pleasant personality and give him a boyfriend who has an adjoining room and everyone pretends that the connecting door is never opened and Thomas bought himself a double bed because he's such an active sleeper who needs more room to move around in.  Daisy could run off to London or take over Mr. Mason's farm.  Moseley and Baxter are married, and there may or may not be kids.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Zahdii

[Constantinople]

I must have missed where "Donk" came from --is it one of the kids mispronouncing something or something they made up?

 

It came out of nowhere and was never explained. Early on Robert asked the room "Why does she call me 'Donk'?" and eveyone shrugged because he was missing the obvious -- he's a donk!

I thought in the S5 premiere, Robert complained that Sybbie started calling him Donk after they played Pin the Tail on the Donkey.

[stopeslite]

 

Mary just sighed and told Donk that she'd recruited Thomas to take Sinderby down a peg,

She didn't, though - she told him to take the butler down a peg. I don't think Mary would ever let go of her aristocratic notions long enough to ask a servant to do anything to a peer. It was Thomas who decided to take Sinderby down with the butler, since he was mad at Sinderby for insulting him. 

 

Speaking of which, I don't think it came down on the butler at all - he was scared to death, but I doubt that Sinderby would ever link the appearance of Diana with his own butler. I'm a bit surprised that Atticus and Rose didn't immediately develop a paranoia, since this is the second time something dastardly has been set up specifically to interfere with their happiness (seemingly). If I were them, I'd be on edge for the next year or so.  

 

Are Atticus and Rose really moving to New York? They talked about it in the summer, but not a word was spoken about it during Christmas. Were posh positions of the type that he could just put off showing up for half a year until after the holidays?

 

ETA: I just caught last night that the Prince's first name - Ivan or Igor, I can't remember whch. But either way, seriously, Fellowes? First Russian character and you go with one of the most stereotypical Russian names? Ugh. He needs to hire someone full-time just to do names. 

Edited March 2, 2015 by stopeslite

[Llywela]

But it doesn't really stand alone I don't think - without it, a viewer would start S6 wondering why Carson and Mrs. Hughes are married, where Rose and Atticus went, when and how Anna got out of jail (if you gave a tinker's damn, that is), and why the infatuated Prince Kirov disappeared.

Yes, as I said, it necessarily forms part of the ongoing storyline, while also being separate from either the preceding or following season - a bridge between seasons, in effect. It isn't, however, the season finale. That was episode 8.

[Crs97]

One nitpick I had was Violet and Isobel seeing the family off at the train station and Mary only kissing Violet.  She is related to Isobel, too, Julian.  We haven't forgotten, even though you would like us to.  We should have seen a hand clasp or kiss or even a throw away "Say hi to George for me while I am away" line.  Instead, they play it as if Isobel is just a random friend instead of related to the family.

[Malaprop cocktail]

She didn't, though - she told him to take the butler down a peg. I don't think Mary would ever let go of her aristocratic notions long enough to ask a servant to do anything to a peer. It was Thomas who decided to take Sinderby down with the butler, since he was mad at Sinderby for insulting him.

 

Thank you for the correction--this does better explain why Mary and Donk were able to shrug it off, although I still think there could have been some consequence for her setting the whole thing in motion. Tom was doing just fine on his own, asking for bread and wine, respectively, when he was snubbed, which called attention to the butler's bad behavior.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Malaprop cocktail