S01.E13: Mama's Here Now

[truthaboutluv]

They seem to be in love with the Wes/Rebecca pairing, and they wouldn't mess that up by making her the villain.

 

 

Are they really though, or has it just been set up that way? Also, looking around online, I have not gotten the impression Wes/Rebecca is a particularly well loved pairing and I can't imagine the writers aren't aware of that themselves. Hell, some might say they're already laying the seeds for a possible Wes/Laurel pairing down the road. While the Bonnie theories make sense and it's something that's been suggested for awhile, I personally feel like that would be more of a cop-out than Rebecca, simply for the purpose of "shocking" twist. 

 

Speaking of Rudy, he was also a law student right?

 

 

Yeah he was, at least according to Rebecca. That was her comment to Wes when he first spoke to her asking her to turn her music down - that she put up with one annoying law student who was always studying late in the night and asking her to turn down her music, she wasn't doing it again. 

Edited February 21, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[jjj]

"How to Get Away with Murder".  It would be a dramatically satisfying conclusion, although not a just conclusion, if the "murder" that was got away with was Lila's murder, and everything we have seen is the result of someone trying to "get away with [Lila's] murder".  We've been trained to focus on how they are getting away with Sam's murder; but is that just collateral damage in someone's ultimate goal to get away with murdering Lila?  (and why?)  I probably should not hope too hard about a satisfying conclusion, but I do have hope.  Will someone have gotten away with a murder by the end of the next episode? 

[Shermie]

I have assumed since the beginning that Wes was Aanalise's son, but then I know Shonda shows like to throw in unexpected twists.

I do think Cicely Tyson cemented her Emmy win for guest star in a drama.

[morgankobi]

A season 2 is looking likely. So maybe next season is more about finally getting away with Sam's, and this one is about Lila's.

[chabelisaywow]

 

During the scene where Annalise's mother left the stove on to confront Annalise,

 

I thought she was going to tell her... "secret's in the sauce."  Sorry wrong Cicely Tyson reference. 

I loved every bit of Ms. Tyson's performance - especially when when she called Anna Mae the "queen of Sheeba."

[jjj]

So maybe next season is more about finally getting away with Sam's, and this one is about Lila's.

The premise of this title is the opposite of "Law & Order" -- instead of being brought to justice, evading justice.  Unless karma delivers justice in the last episode. 

[HoodlumSheep]

I agree with your whole post, truthaboutluv.

And I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities that Rebecca is, in fact, Lila's killer (or involved in her murder at the very least), even though it would be apparently too obvious by now. In TV, what is obvious is to find out about a killer's identity in the very last episode, but in this case it would only be refreshing if we had the confirmation that Rebecca is the culprit and for us to finally find out "how" she actually managed "to get away with the murder".

If TPTB plays this match well enough, the season finale can still be amazing even if we already know who murdered Lila.

This is what I like about this show. Whether they decide to go with the obvious choice or a surprise concerning who ends up being the killer, it's "how" it happened that's the best part. They could easily decide to go with Rebecca being Lila's killer and I wouldn't even be mad. It's the circumstances leading up to the event that intrigue me the most.

Like back in the winter finale I kinda figured Wes would be the one to kill Sam (he was the one to lay the final blow), but I had no idea that Michaela would have pretty much half-killed him when she shoved him over the railing and down 8-10 ft. beforehand.

I wonder when Asher is going to get involved somehow. He can't stay oblivious forever. I'm not quite sure if he'll be involved with whatever happens in the finale or if they'll save when he finds out until season 2.

[jjj]

There is some reason Asher has been kept separate in the storyline, and maybe we will find out why in a few days.  I think he is the only one who is oblivious and ignorant of the situation; Bonnie is not oblivious, but is ignorant of the details. 

[cooksdelight]

I worry they are keeping Asher in the dark to make him a fall guy. Bonnie jumping him in the parking lot with Frank watching gave me the shivers.

[helenamonster]

I do love that she's unafraid of being "naked' on TV, in the sense of no wig or makeup or perfectly put together, etc. She allows herself to be seen unglamourous and I love that.

 

I love that too, especially because I just noticed this episode that without a wig or makeup, she looks exactly like one of my close friends from high school. It actually weirdly helped endear me to the character more, especially during the hair combing scene, which was already powerful in and of itself.

 

I've really been going back and forth on whether or not Rebecca is Lila's killer. SOP for most dramas is that the big revelation comes at the very end of an episode/season, but not every show follows this structure. Some will have the second-to-last episode of a season deliver the big reveals/events, and then the last one deal more with the fallout. Because this is the show's first season and I haven't quite figured out exactly how it all works yet, I really think it could go either way. I mean, look at the winter finale. I thought the episode would end with us finding out how Sam died. I think we saw Wes kill him by the second commercial break. The true reveal was that Annalise had known, and we were forced reevaluate everything that had happened from the coin flip on (especially intriguing because the coin flip was the very first scene of the series/season).

 

Now, Rudy simply saying "wet" and Rebecca tracking Wes's phone are not damning evidence that she killed Lila, but enough for me to really believe that it could go either. It all depends on what the show wants to make "the big reveal." As someone said upthread, the show isn't really about what happened but more the events leading up to what happened. Rebecca being Lila's killer might pale in comparison to something else that such a reveal could lead to. This show has its problems, but (and I reserve the right to change my mind on this, depending on how the finale plays out) it's pretty structurally sound when it comes to these things.

[possibilities]

If Sam is Lila's killer, he didn't get away with it. That's the main reason, besides the obviousness, that makes me think he didn't do it. Other than that, I totally buy him as having done it. He seems exactly like the correct suspect, if this wasn't a TV show that is based on getting away with something and on having shocking twists.

 

The way we're not sure by now is similar to how the first season of Veronica Mars played out. All along there were obvious suspects but it was impossible to say what the truth was. The reveal of what actually happened blew my mind-- not only the who but also the why. I don't think HTGAWM is nearly as good of a show as VM was, but the way the mystery of who killed Lila has been developed is reminiscent.

 

It could be Sam, or Rebecca, or Bonnie, or Annalise, or a group that includes Rudy and Griffin, or who knows? I am ready to believe any number of options, including one I haven't thought of, at this point.

 

I agree Rebecca (by herself) doesn't seem strong enough to strangle anyone, and also her motive seems very weak. And she would have to be a serious psychopath to come across so calm and under-reactive all season, without a single moment of cracking in that facade, and also be a cold-blooded strangler. It could happen, though. Except that Wes now suspects her, so she might not be such a good candidate for getting away with it. And also, she only got the defense she did because of Wes's weird obsession with her, and not really by her own devices.

 

Bonnie has a similar problem. I believe she's cold enough, if she has motive. But they haven't shown her to be particularly brawny and strangling doesn't seem like the way she'd do something. If she did it, though, the only motive I can think of would be that she did it on behalf of Annalise. I could sort of believe it. It would explain Annalise's contempt for her, as well as why she'd choose to not confide in her this time, and instead make it Frank's turn to serve as her assist. Gotta spread the criminal conspiracies around, you know!

 

Sam is the obvious type and also strong enough and also we saw him put hands on Annalise's neck. But it's not shocking enough and he didn't get away with it.

 

Rudy, Griffin, and any totally unknown other person seem like weak choices because we really didn't see HOW they got away with it. The show didn't show any of them as actors with agency, they're just in the background and more or less got lucky, if they did it and no one pinned it on them. Unless Rudy is totally faking his breakdown or something. I dunno.

 

That leaves Annalise, or maybe Frank as her minion. But it would make the main character of the show so unlikable, it's hard to imagine the network taking a chance on turning away viewers.

 

Maybe it is a group, like who killed Sam is kind of a group.

 

At this point, probably anything they do will seem pale compared to expectations.

Edited February 22, 2015 by possibilities

[Stinger97]

Not a huge issue, but if your post involves more speculation about the overarching storyline, and less about the actual episode, it's probably wise to take it to the speculation w/o spoilers thread. Thanks!

[Mabinogia]

I wish every television producer/writer could see what a strong reaction people are having to the hair brushing scene. IMO, it was one of the most powerful scene's this show has had. It was not shocking, there was no twist, but it has people talking. See producers, sometimes viewers really just want to see strong character moments like this. It was quiet but so very powerful. It spoke not only about these two characters, but about an entire group of women, mothers and daughter, who relate so strongly to that one, simple scene.

 

So often shows, especially this type of show, which is centered on a murder mystery, forget about the little quiet moments that make characters real. That scene, as well as way back when, the first scene when Annaliese took off her wig and looked at herself in the mirror, are such strong moments. The rest of the show really pales in comparison.

 

I don't think it matter so much who killed Lila. What matters, based on the title of the show, is how they are going to get away with it. I can see it being Rebecca because we're close to the end, Rebecca's shadiness is being amped up and I can see her taking off now that Wes, her hope for getting away with it, is on to her. The show would end with them trying to prove it was her, but no one believes them because they did such a good job of proving it wasn't her. Oh, that would be a twisted take on crying wolf. Everyone will say Annaliese was just trying to clear her dead husbands name.

 

Though, is that even the murder that whoever gets away with, or is it killing Sam that is the murder they get away with?

 

Anyway, I'm more interested in how they get away with it than who did it.

[Empress1]

 

As an aside, that hair combing scene brought up painful memories for me, as I kept wanting to tell Cicely Tyson to take it easy.  I mean, damn, you can't just run a comb through dry, natural hair all willy nilly! I felt that ish in my scalp, y'all.

Yes! My tender-headed self was like "Get the spray bottle!" But wow, that scene. WOW. Viola Davis and Cicely Tyson brought out the best in each other. When Annalise slid down to the floor to sit while her mother combed her hair, she was instantly a little child again. That took me back to childhood, sitting at my mother's and grandmother's feet. And her face after her mother confessed - realization, forgiveness - was EVERYTHING.

 

Pretty much everything about Sam and Annalise's relationship was unethical. He was married AND her therapist when they got together. HUGE no-nos. He could have lost his license.

 

I can never get over how unflattering the actress who plays Bonnie's hair is. She was on Scandal with light brown long hair and she looks a decade older now with the harsh blonde.

 

I don't even care about the case of the week - bring me more Cicely Tyson!

[Miles]

Potentially, she could even blackmail the Keating 4, since she knows first hand they're Sam's killers but she's "only" an eyewitness.

Well she broke into the house. Which means she would be culpable under felony murder. The others actually have a better case than her, since they were there all the time and could argue they came to the scene looking for their professor, or something, found Sam strangeling her and that's when they hit him.

They actually would get off, if people believed them, only Rebecca would be convicted for murder. It's weird that the person who did the deadly blow wouldn't, but that's how I udnerstand the law (which admittedly is not very well :D )

Annalise gave up a kid for adoption

Was that actually confirmed? I was just theorising that she did. If so that makes Wes being her son about as sure of thing as it gets.

[tennisgurl]

I really hope Wes isn't her son. It would make their weird sexual tension even weirder. Even Cicely noticed it, so the writers clearly acknowledge that its deliberate. 

 

I cannot get over how real Viola Davis is. Not many actresses will get on TV without their hair and makeup looking great, and here she is, on a starring role on a major network, just going for broke. I have so much respect for her. I`m used to watching actresses look amazing even after fight scenes, or just getting out of bed, so to see Viola so stripped down makes her scenes even more powerful.  

[truthaboutluv]

Rebecca being Lila's killer might pale in comparison to something else that such a reveal could lead to.

Well and we know a big reveal will happen at the end because the promo for the finale all but gave it away with the whole "don't miss the last minute..."

Also, there is a shot of Annalise coming over to Wes' apartment it seems where he, Michaela and Laurel are all standing around looking guilty and freaked out and Annalise is also shown looking down at something in shock.

If Sam is Lila's killer, he didn't get away with it.

Sam being the killer would kind of be a cop out in my opinion and sort of redundant because as of right now, it's pretty much accepted that Sam killed Lila. So why create some huge subterfuge, drama, all to reveal that Sam who is dead anyway, really did kill her. Edited February 22, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[scrappyrunner75]

My theory for a while now has been that Bonnie killed Lila. She clearly has issues and it would be an "unexpected" reveal since since she hasn't really been acting shady and isn't very involved with the whole Lila storyline right now. I would love to be wrong, because I really like her character, and her dynamic with Annaliese is one that I'm legitimately curious about.

I've always thought Bonnie killed Lila as well. Edited February 22, 2015 by scrappyrunner75

[RedheadZombie]

If there is a god and I know there is Rebecca will be dead and Nate will be out and naked in Anna's bed. 

 

Poor Nate!  I think he's a dog for cheating on his sick wife, but he deserves better than Annalise.  She's ruined his career, and now framed him for murder.  He could easily be killed in jail for being a cop, and even if he gets off, the accusation will follow him.

 

Cecily Tyson annoyed me at first, but I thought she improved as the episode went along. I was not surprised that Annalise had been raped as a child. At least, Annalise could be comforted that her mother killed the man who raped her. Now that is how you get away with murder. Her mother was right that she should not have gotten romantically involved with Sam.

 

I liked the storyline, but it kept veering into Color Purple territory.  I was waiting for her to say, "A girl child ain't safe in a family of men", and "Sofia home, now.  Sofia home".  It kept pulling me out of the scene.

 

Bonnie was interesting in this episode too. Clearly, she has a huge inferiority complex where Annalise is concerned. Her yelling at the kiddies to not talk back to her since they would never talk back to Annalise was gold. Also, her and Asher? I kind of ship it.

 

I like Bonnie, she's the least disgusting person on the show.  I need an explanation for her devotion to her boss, because she gets treated like a dog.  She looks like a door mat, and acts like a domestic violence victim who returns to their abuser.

[dr pepper]

Mama came across a stereotype from the 70s.

I kept expecting her to accuse Anna of "acting white". That being said, Cicily Tyson really made the part work. Also, in spite of her rant about how the world is full of men in authority who are always "taking", she's savvy enough to understand that there are more opportunities for women to be takers too nowadays. And i think that seeing Wes seated on the bed at Anna's call look familiar to Mama (albeit with the sexes reversed) which was why she instantly told him to leave. And that short verbal glimpse of a society and a generation in which girls were so routinely "got at" was handled with great skill-- there and gone before the horror caught up with the viewer.

That being said again, i think Tyson is too big for that role, she deserves a show of her own.

[wanderingstar]

I don't want Wes to be Annalise's son, and I don't want them to be lovers. I think it's much more interesting if she's his mentor/Svengali. That's a type of relationship we don't often see on television.

[BigBlueMastiff]

Wow, Cicely Tyson, owned this episode. She is such a marvelous actress. The way she told the story of how the house really burned down, and why was riveting. I felt every word. She showed Anna May who's boss, and so much love and compassion in just two episodes. Also, loved her saying that Anna May was messed up for marrying her therapist. Hadn't realized that until now, so much eww, and totally explains why he could hurt her as deeply as he did. What a scumbag for throwing back words likely shared in therapy, good riddance.

[HalcyonDays]

Was that actually confirmed? I was just theorising that she did. If so that makes Wes being her son about as sure of thing as it gets.

 

That Wes is Annalise's son given up for adoption? No, not at all. Just my speculation. I missed the first three episodes of the season, so maybe those episodes show why Annalise seems to have a closer bond with Wes. She just seems to have a soft spot for him.

[Miles]

No, just that she had given up a baby for adoption once, I meant. But I guess that wasn't confirmed either then.

[renatae]

Cicely Tyson was everything in this episode.

 

Now that Frank knows about them, I think he might pressure Asher to string her along or use it has leverage over Bonnie.

 

 

Except I think Asher wouldn't be stringing her along - he's hooked!

[renatae]

He could have a little more body fat and hair for my taste, but that's nitpicking. He looks damn fine.

 

 

I already wrote in the last episode thread that I think there is a good chance that Rebecca somehow got Rudy to do her killing for her, just like she got Wes to do the same.

But now that they are setting us on that track I think it might be a little too early in the season for that. On the other hand, maybe the rest of the season is navigating that fact.

 

Agreed on all counts!

 

 

What are the chances that Rebecca gave him a "normal joint" after he murdered Lila for her to "calm him down"?

 

 

Uh gross, he's her son! (that's my newest theory and I'm sticking to it.)

Almost seems like somebody accidentally switched their parts in the script.

 

I thought I was the only one still thinking that Wes is her son.

 

I thought Cicely/Viola playing off each other was wonderful. I loved the way Annalise's backstory evolved via this episode, as did their relationship. Cicely's "potty mouth" blew me away, reminding me of a close relative who was very proper, but if she had to deal with the subject of sex, could be shockingly direct. She also was a victim of sexual abuse. It's uncanny how much Cicely's character reminded me of her.

 

Not sure who I "like" for the murder, but it would be rewarding if it turned out to be Rebecca and we could be rid of her.

 

Too cold about Nate. Really having a hard time getting over that, as apparently is Annalise. But then, she shouldn't have framed him. She deserves to be incapacitated.

[C76]

"Now, you ain't got no husband. You ain't got no boyfriend..." Hilarious.

 

I knew as soon as I heard Cicely's accent that Annalise was really Anna Mae. She was the mother Tina Turner should've had.

 

I know a lot of people worship at the feet of Shonda, but I think I've seen enough of her shows to know that this portrayal of a black woman is due to the woman they have in Viola Davis, not anything to do with Shonda. Viola is the one that brings the real black woman out and the life and background from which she sprang onto this show.

 

Now, I don't believe any black woman would have her hair as matted down as it was in the take off the wig scene, we'd have it better tended to, but tonight, when Cicely not only did Anna's hair, but Anna sat down on the floor for her to do it? That took millions of former, little black girls back to the many times their mother did their hair and that just didn't happen in the many years of opportunity that Shonda has had with her other black characters on TV. Shonda has fed more stereotypes or simply, conveniently made them "not that kind of black" characters.

 

Viola is the only reason why this show is still on the air and the way that Annalise is on the show.

 

 

 

1. Regarding how "done" Black women like to keep their hair: When I'm (very) stressed, one of the last things I want is to have to bother with my hair. And if I had to protect folks from being implicated in a murder plot? Pshhhh. Forget it!

 

That said, I see what you're saying about that scene. I love how real this show is.

 

2. Undoubtedly Viola is an exceptional talent. Yet as someone who's interested in working behind the scenes, I'm pretty sure that the show's success has something to do with its writers, directors, as well as other cast and crew. When you say things like,"Viola is the one that brings the real black woman out", a part of me understands. However, a part of me also disagrees. I sincerely doubt that Ms. Davis has been constantly re-writing certain scenes throughout the series because none of TPTB are aware of how to depict a Black person's experiences.

 

Mama came across a stereotype from the 70s.

I saw her differently. As I watched Cicely Tyson in this episode, I couldn't help but think a bit of Maggie Smith, who's on Downton Abbey. Both actors are around the same age, and I've enjoyed watching them work. One thing that resonates with me while watching them perform is--perhaps--the very thing that turns you off. They're in that older, "I don't give a damn, I'm going to say what I think" phase of life. I genuinely enjoy their characters'  shameless truth-telling, the kind that can be as endearing as it is aggravating. 

 

Furthermore, getting back to discussing one character instead of two, I've met older people who are dead-honest and unintentionally humorous like Annalise's mother. So for me, at least, she wasn't that far-fetched.

Edited February 24, 2015 by C76

[Kendall]

2. Undoubtedly Viola is an exceptional talent. Yet as someone who's interested in working behind the scenes, I'm pretty sure that the show's success has something to do with its writers, directors, as well as other cast and crew. When you say things like,"Viola is the one that brings the real black woman out", a part of me understands. However, a part of me also disagrees. I sincerely doubt that Ms. Davis has been constantly re-writing certain scenes throughout the series because none of TPTB are aware of how to depict a Black person's experiences.

 

 

 

Someone else took issue to my notion that Viola is the reason as to why this show is still on the air and that this particular depiction of a black woman is on the air.

 

With all due respect to the writers and producers behind the scenes and with acknowledgement to my own previous desires to be one of those writers and producers behind the scenes, I will still tip my hat to Viola as being the driving force to this performance, just as I will buy another hat to tip to Taraji P. Henson.

 

Plain and simple, we as an audience have not been allowed to see a Cookie Lyons or Annalise Keating very much on TV and while there may have been both writers and producers just itching to write these women, (which I doubt) they haven't done it prior to this season. Maybe they were waiting for the right actress or show, but it is my sincere thought that even if they wanted to write those women, not many of our current crop of prominent black actresses would be able to play those characters without going completely off the rails.

 

Unless Viola and Taraji are lying, they've stated what they've gone to the writers about what they are willing to do and where they are open to going. No matter how great a writer is, if the actor can't or won't pull it off, your words are wasted and in Murder's case, the writing overall is not that great to me. So many things don't work on this show, as I believe the other, less formidable actors showcase in their performances.

 

Viola, and I believe his name is, Alfred Enoch are the only two of the actual cast that is really getting it done. Although, I do like the guy who plays Asher. The other cast members could come and go it wouldn't really break the show, those three go above the lines on their pages.

 

In particular, the take off the wig and make up scene, the producers checked and re-checked with Viola about her wanting to play it that way and she insisted that is what she wanted and was willing to do. Left up to the producers, we wouldn't have had that version of that scene. So, yes, the writers and producers did plot and plan that out, but Viola is the one that has us still talking about that scene.

 

Maybe Empire would still be a great without Taraji, (I doubt it) but Murder without Viola? I doubt it very seriously.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Kendall

[C76]

Someone else took issue to my notion that Viola is the reason as to why this show is still on the air and that this particular depiction of a black woman is on the air.

 

With all due respect to the writers and producers behind the scenes and with acknowledgement to my own previous desires to be one of those writers and producers behind the scenes, I will still tip my hat to Viola as being the driving force to this performance, just as I will buy another hat to tip to Taraji P. Henson.

 

Plain and simple, we as an audience have not been allowed to see a Cookie Lyons or Annalise Keating very much on TV and while there may have been both writers and producers just itching to write these women, (which I doubt) they haven't done it prior to this season. Maybe they were waiting for the right actress or show, but it is my sincere thought that even if they wanted to write those women, not many of our current crop of prominent black actresses would be able to play those characters without going completely off the rails.

 

Unless Viola and Taraji are lying, they've stated what they've gone to the writers about what they are willing to do and where they are open to going. No matter how great a writer is, if the actor can't or won't pull it off, your words are wasted and in Murder's case, the writing overall is not that great to me. So many things don't work on this show, as I believe the other, less formidable actors showcase in their performances.

 

Viola, and I believe his name is, Alfred Enoch are the only two of the actual cast that is really getting it done. Although, I do like the guy who plays Asher. The other cast members could come and go it wouldn't really break the show, those three go above the lines on their pages.

 

In particular, the take off the wig and make up scene, the producers checked and re-checked with Viola about her wanting to play it that way and she insisted that is what she wanted and was willing to do. Left up to the producers, we wouldn't have had that version of that scene. So, yes, the writers and producers did plot and plan that out, but Viola is the one that has us still talking about that scene.

 

Maybe Empire would still be a great without Taraji, (I doubt it) but Murder without Viola? I doubt it very seriously.

 

i didn't make my comments with the intention of undermining Ms. Davis' contributions to the show. I'm sure it wouldn't be the same program without her. Instead, we'd be getting used to a different actor's portrayal of Annalise. And I don't doubt for a minute what you're saying about the communication she's had with the production team regarding her role. I read as much in an interview of hers. 

 

If I may be completely honest, when people give credit solely to an actor for a performance I cringe. We could be talking about any other show, and I'd have the same reaction. I know that Viola brings something unique to her portrayal of Annalise. However, I also feel the need to credit the show's production team. After all, I've never seen an actor give an acceptance speech and say,"Well, I'm awesome. So, thanks to ME for everything!" ;)

 

All joking aside, I could go on about what I think of the show and its cast, writing, etc. But I think that's fodder for another thread. (I'm not sure, but I don't want to step on any toes.)

 

As for this week's episode. I enjoyed every aspect of it. I'm a bit worried and curious about what will be left for us as viewers after next week's finale. Will Sam's murder be the ultimate mystery, with the truth revealed at the end of the series? I keep wondering what sort of cliffhanger TPTB are going to leave us with. Then, I wonder what's the use. Something always comes up that defies my expectations.

Edited February 25, 2015 by C76

[ribboninthesky1]

How would that have gone? "Oh yeah honey, you know my brother, who raped you? I burned him alive as revenge, LOL."

You can't tell a child that you murdered somebody. You can't put that on their shoulders. You also can't tell an adult to whom you are now estranged. You don't know if they would go straight to the police with that information. Mama could only tell Annalise, once she had done the same or something similar, because at that point she would understand.

 

With all due respect, we watched her mom tell her daughter, in so many words, that she murdered her daughter's rapist and abuser.  So it can be and was done.  I never said that she had to tell her as a child.  We already know Annalise didn't kill Sam, and I thought she made that clear to her mother.  My perception was that the impetus to the confession was Annalise believed she knew about her rape and never cared, never stood up for her as her mother.   Annalise is well past 40.  Her mom had DECADES of adult life to break it down to Annalise that 1) she acknowledged what happened to her, and 2) what she did as a result.  There's nothing in their interaction, strained as it initially was, that led me to believe that she really thought that Annalise would go to police over the murder of the man who raped her, and couldn't tell her before.

 

It was a narrative choice for them to have their "come to Jesus" moment in this episode, which is fine and was well-acted. It just didn't endear me to the character. 

 

I don't want to make this too long, but I think I'll stand firm in saying that Viola wanting to do more with her shot as the lead black actress has more to do with how Annalise comes off on this show than with Shonda as the provider of lead black acting roles.

 

That's fair.  If Viola had her own production company, created her own show, in addition to playing the lead character, I'd give her many props.  But for me, that's not the reality.  Shonda's production company via the show provided her with that opportunity.  Erika's writing was the conduit to Viola's performance.  Viola deftly took advantage of both, but she didn't create them herself. I respect where you're coming from. Yet, I also stand firm in my belief that viewers don't get Viola's performance without Shonda getting the show greenlit. 

 

I disagree with Olivia Pope being a caricature (at least when I watched the show), but this isn't about Scandal, so I'll leave it there.      

 

I do agree that this show isn't particularly well-written, but I've not been impressed with Shonda as a writer anyway.  Her protégé created this show, which, alas, is not exactly a compliment.  

[lion10]

Random thought, but  I'm not seeing a whole lotta soul behind Laurel's or Rebecca's eyes and it's starting to freak me out.  They both seem to have ice in their veins to a degree past what any of the other characters have.  I'm interested in what Laurel's character development looks like.

[betsyboo]

Nate. Wow. Just...wow. Annalise better get him out of prison. I still thought it was weird at the very end, when Annalise went to talk to him. If he thought he were betrayed by Anna, then I expected more of an angry reaction, but he seemed like this was all part of the plan. Same with Anna's speech" to him. She knows it's being filmed, so she's planning something. Just get him free.

I agree. I definitely think there was something there. She knew they were being recorded. She clearly was trying to send him a message. I don't know what it is... I can only hope that Nate has been in on it the whole time because he loves her and knows she will take care of getting the charges dropped.

[Chicago Redshirt]

We saw Anna slip Nate a note that said fire your lawyer, call this number. Presumably it is one of Anna's cohorts/catspaws, since repping Nate herself is probably not something she wants to do. 

[EyesGlazed]

At first I thought Cicely's character was a little too broad, but as it became clear that she was speaking from the experience of her years ("men take") it became more and more powerful. And the "long match" story -- that's why you hire Cicely Tyson, master class folks.

I have issues with Shonda as a writer.

Putting these two comments together, because I thought the Mama character was ridiculously written during the first half hour of this episode.  That "I'm a VIP because your boss came out of my V and her daddy's P" line??  HATED IT.  Come on, no woman of that age would greet strangers with talk about genitalia.  And it was stupid.  It was obviously some writer (Shonda) thinking what a neato line that was.  Barf.  And later in the episode when she accuses Annalise of having Wes "sniffing at your drawers".  Just yuck.  And again, inappropriate for the character to talk like that in front of an outsider.

 

Thankfully, the later scenes in the kitchen and, especially, the hair brushing, were dynamite.  This show could have many more well written scenes if it didn't feel the need to shock us with sex and vulgarity every five minutes.

 

Nate is not only amazing looking but a good actor too, so he better be a series regular or I'll be boycotting.

 

[kikaha]

I agree. I definitely think there was something there. She knew they were being recorded. She clearly was trying to send him a message. I don't know what it is... I can only hope that Nate has been in on it the whole time because he loves her and knows she will take care of getting the charges dropped.

 

It seemed clear to me that till then, Nate was NOT in on Annalise's scheme, and this was her way of alerting him.  Interesting because based on how Nate acted when they arrested him, it looked like he and Annalise had worked it out ahead of time. 

[TobinAlbers]

I love Asher but man did Ophelia burn him good with ' Don't nobody want to be caught at the end of that!' When he was doing his usual dumb hip gyrations. The amused look of disbelief on her face had me rolling.

[Kendall]

Putting these two comments together, because I thought the Mama character was ridiculously written during the first half hour of this episode.  That "I'm a VIP because your boss came out of my V and her daddy's P" line??  HATED IT.  Come on, no woman of that age would greet strangers with talk about genitalia.  And it was stupid.  It was obviously some writer (Shonda) thinking what a neato line that was.  Barf.  And later in the episode when she accuses Annalise of having Wes "sniffing at your drawers".  Just yuck.  And again, inappropriate for the character to talk like that in front of an outsider.

 

Thankfully, the later scenes in the kitchen and, especially, the hair brushing, were dynamite.  This show could have many more well written scenes if it didn't feel the need to shock us with sex and vulgarity every five minutes.

 

Nate is not only amazing looking but a good actor too, so he better be a series regular or I'll be boycotting.

 

Yes, YES, YES!!!

 

That is the kind of stuff that I was alluding to when I was giving more credit to Viola than Shonda in regards to how Annalise is portrayed. The only way those scenes from Ophelia would make sense is if she was intentionally trying to embarrass Annalise for leaving whatever town she left, changing her name and marrying her fancy white man.

 

If Shonda wanted to go there with that very real aspect of some black family dynamics, then great, something else we don't see on TV, but would've been fascinating, but that wasn't her goal. As per Shonda, it was silliness that really doesn't ring true to the characters that she's "providing opportunity" to.

 

It matters not that Shonda is a black woman if she is writing the same type of garbage that a maybe uniformed white writer would for black actors.

[pennben]

 

It matters not that Shonda is a black woman if she is writing the same type of garbage that a maybe uniformed white writer would for black actors

 

Shonda matters because 10 years ago she brought diversity in casting back that had been lacking.  And maintained diversity in her casting throughout the years.  And, most importantly created shows that were successful as to ratings, syndication deals, critical commentary, etc.  That momentum built and the network gave her more power and more timeslots.  And began to realize that diverse casts led to better ratings.

 

She may not be the be all and end all storyteller (and note, she doesn't write for this show), but there would be no ratings smash like "Empire" on Fox if Shonda hadn't blasted through the notion of who can be a lead in a show, leading to an Isiah or a Sandra or a Chandra or a Kerry or a Viola being viable lead characters in a show. 

Edited February 28, 2015 by pennben

[Kendall]

Tyler Perry makes just as big of an impact with his movies and TV shows, but I don't jump for joy with his portrayals either. Yes, I like to see black actors working, but not if they are in roles that do nothing to advance the overal portrayal of black characters. For every step forward that Shonda is credited with, she has about two or three, at least side steps, if not actual steps backwards.

 

No, she doesn't write the show, but as a producer, she still has a part in its vision and execution.

[pennben]

To minimize Shonda's contribution to the diversity on tv today baffles me and ignores all evidence to what she did.  Sometimes you need to see actors in lead roles before you can do more or deeper with that.  Like her or not, she did what she did, and that allows others to do what they do.  And what she did was extraordinary in moving the needle on network tv. 

 

I also recognize I'm way off the episode topic!:)  I'll move further comments elsewhere.

Edited February 28, 2015 by pennben

[jhlipton]

The Shonda / Viola discussion probably belongs in the Shonda thread -- I'm replying there.

[discoprincess]

Yes! My tender-headed self was like "Get the spray bottle!" But wow, that scene. WOW. Viola Davis and Cicely Tyson brought out the best in each other. When Annalise slid down to the floor to sit while her mother combed her hair, she was instantly a little child again. That took me back to childhood, sitting at my mother's and grandmother's feet. And her face after her mother confessed - realization, forgiveness - was EVERYTHING.

 

How many people back in the day used spray bottles while styling natural black hair? Annalise's mother is old-school, and I don't think she grew up doing that, nor would she be receptive to being taught that now. (She certainly doesn't want to call her own daughter by her preferred name.) 

[St. Claire]

Even as the whitest of white girls (Irish, Scottish, Scandinavian and Welsh mostly), the hair scene took me back to childhood. Whether you are dealing with a matted kitchen or silky fine hair that tangles if you so much as look at it cross-eyed, I think the feeling of your mom with a brush or comb in her hand while you sit on the floor in front of her is nearly universal. 

[Dejana]

FWIW, Shonda says the VIP line was from someone she really met (per Twitter):
 

True story: That VIP line came from someone I know in real life. It was spontaneous and badass and amazing to witness. #HTGAWM #TGIT

Edited March 4, 2015 by Dejana