Sasha February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 I enjoyed this episode. Even with all the ridiculousness Crane, Abby, Frank and Jenny really sell it with the glaring exception of Katrina. I thought my hate of the CFD clouded my judgement on KW but damn she just cannot act. The last shot of her face as she saw the roses on the table? Horrible. It's not even bad acting. Jenny's eyebrows have more talent. Tori Spelling has more talent. I am sure she is a wonderful person but she needs another career. 6 Link to comment
blixie February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 I love the Abbie/Ichabod stuff SO MUCH. But I am also there for the Jenny Frank scenes. Yes, my two witnesses together, joking, and being ba-dasses and most importantly backing each other up all the way. I loved the switching between them and Jenny/Frank pairing. I love Team Witness, so much. This is the show I fell for last year. Hologram Thomas Jefferson was fun, but pretty batshit even for this show. They didn't even bother explaining it; just said the witch coven had something to do with it and called it a day. Actually this was when I knew I loved the episode: "This place is possible via SCIENCE......and witchcraft!" That is the kind of fantastic ridiculousness that made me love you show. Franks convoluted rune story was similar but edged in to plain old confusing, but I was still like WHATEVER he's trying to hang on to his humanity and Jenny will clearly help him find another way to regain it (I still think it's gotta be some grade A supernatural bullshit that you can sign away your soul w/o knowing you are signing away your soul). Frank is gonna get off on a technicality! CORBIN! Abbie, made me choke up via flash back, so many feels, oh show see this is what I wanted, this is what this show has been missing all year: it's *heart*. I am very happy with Calvin, he's hot and Abbie should hit it, and even aside from that it broadens the shows canvas, aka the town of Sleepy Hollow. Him being an recurring ally (or love interest for Abbie) is absolutely the kind of thing this show needs, and this episode proved you can introduce a character like this ( or Hawley) w/o sacrificing your main casts screen time. You just have to sacrifice Katrina, and never has it been more obvious how much she drags the show down than when she disappears and it instantly improves. As for the Finistella, I can't imagine that won't come back up, and I agree that given it's magical properties that you couldn't have removed any element w/o making it all disappear, including the Reavers. But since it IS magic I'm sure there is some way to get it back as well. My favorite thing about this one is it seemed very obviously re-cut, I don't believe for a second that after Spellcaster the only scene in this episode for Katrina was that stinger. Likewise I thought the stuff on the boat was a re-shoot. Alls I can say is it's about fucking time. 6 Link to comment
ElectricBoogaloo February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 When Jenny initially spotted the mark on Frank's arm in the bar and then changed her mind and decided to help him, I thought he had a magical tattoo that was the equivalent of a Jedi mind trick so I was really glad to see that in reality, Jenny was on to him and only agreed to help him so she could keep an eye on him. 1 Link to comment
DearEvette February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 I thought my hate of the CFD clouded my judgement on KW but damn she just cannot act. The last shot of her face as she saw the roses on the table? Horrible. It's not even bad acting. Jenny's eyebrows have more talent. Tori Spelling has more talent. I am sure she is a wonderful person but she needs another career. Holy Cow, I thought the same thing. What is that line in that Madonna song about all the classic actresses -- 'they gave good face'? KW gives no face. At All. I felt nothing from her in that last scene. Nothing. I had the same reaction to her during the scene in the Historical Society when she was looking at the couple in front of them groping each other. She didn't look shocked or dismayed or aroused. Nothing. She just blinked her eyes and looked like she was waiting for her line. I have been very tolerant of the character, the writing for the character, and the actress. I have been actually pulling them to do right by her, because overall I like the show and I ultimately think that the entire show can benefit from all it's parts being strong. But she makes it so hard. She just isn't up to it, sorry to say. 5 Link to comment
DkNNy79 February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 I enjoyed this episode. Those creatures were pretty creepy. I wonder how those two utility guys were able to escape and hide from them for so long. Abbie is such a bad ass walking around those sleeping creatures, I would not have the guts. I also think they needed more firepower when they went down to the tunnels. They were grossly outnumbered. The jury is still out on this Calvin guy for me. I don't know if he was talking really fast or mumbling, but I had a hard time understanding him at first. Loved Abbie telling him "stop looking at my face"... lol Love that Jenny was suspicious of Irving and I hope she tells Abbie and Ichabod right away. I had a hard time following Irving's description of what he did to get those markings. I will have to watch again and see if its clearer the second time around. Glad that there was limited Henry/Katrina. Looks like Katrina is moving to the dark side next episode. The previews look like she goes after Abbie next episode. If so, I need Ichabod to crush her, I don't care if she's your wife. Looks like the lines are being drawn: Ichabod, Abbie, Jenny vs Irving, Henry, Katrina. Irving is the wild card, does he still have some control (ala Andy) over his actions? Link to comment
3dog February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 Sometimes I feel like Ichabod and Abbie are overly badass to the point that it takes me right out of the scene. They find that mysterious manhole cover, complete with a phone video of monsters sucking humans into it. They don't go get reinforcements. They don't start strapping on major guns and weapons. They don't even place a call to Jenny. Nope, they just open it up and pop inside for a stroll. There's being badass and there's being stupid, and this felt like the latter. They had zero idea of what they were up against. They hadn't even had their inevitable, "Walk into the archives and magically flip to the right page in the Monster of the Week Handbook" scene yet. Uh....what? 2 Link to comment
DeLurker February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 Awww, why couldn't they keep hologram Jefferson? :( This is how I felt too - like why can't we have nice things? Glad they didn’t drag out one of the gang learning about Frank. Loved all of his scenes with Jenny. Jenny now knows that he’s gone bad. I wonder what she’s going to do with that information. I know that she’ll tell Abbie and Crane, but will they try and save Frank or will they just decide to kill him?<snip> It’s ridiculous how many high profile mentors Crane had in the past. Absolutely unbelievable. Then Jefferson calling Crane a founder of the U.S. RME. After the dumbing down of Jenny, I was so happy to see her back on her game. Ichabod Gump? Forrest Crane? But they gave me Steven Weber being delightful so I'm easy. I feel like I am in the minority but I was not feeling the Reporter guy. I found him instantly annoying. There was something a bit off with him - it was like they said "find me a good looking plot device STAT!". Guy is seriously attractive - if he grew up in SH could Abbie not be aware of him? But maybe Calvin is closer to Sharif's age (40) although he could have passed for much younger to me. Frank doesn't look like he's going to make it out the other side.. I liked the explanation that he stole a rune from Henry that has served to protect his essential self and that there is a part of him fading along with the rune that still has agency and morality despite having his soul stolen. and Wait, so the hella shady look Katrina was sporting after reading Frank meant nothing? I guess it could have been the direction, but I'm pretty convinced at this point that Katia Winter is just incapable of projecting an appropriate emotion with any kind of consistency. It's so frustrating, since even aside from the crappy writing for her character, she's impossible to read. I was a bit confused about the when & where of the rune application, but the first thing I thought of too was Katrina's scan of Frank and that shady look. So I guess that is this ep's edition of "Katrina, you had ONE job!". I thought my hate of the CFD clouded my judgement on KW but damn she just cannot act. The last shot of her face as she saw the roses on the table? Horrible. It's not even bad acting. Jenny's eyebrows have more talent. Tori Spelling has more talent. I am sure she is a wonderful person but she needs another career. and Holy Cow, I thought the same thing. What is that line in that Madonna song about all the classic actresses -- 'they gave good face'? KW gives no face. At All. I felt nothing from her in that last scene. Nothing. I had the same reaction to her during the scene in the Historical Society when she was looking at the couple in front of them groping each other. She didn't look shocked or dismayed or aroused. Nothing. She just blinked her eyes and looked like she was waiting for her line. Wow. Tori Spelling? That's serious shade! Not undeserved, but... I think Taylor Swift's Blank Space is a fitting comparison. 3 Link to comment
HalcyonDays February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 For those who care or are curious (I'm one of them), that battleship that Crane and Abbie were on the deck of is (I believe) the USS North Carolina, located in...duh duh duh - Wilmington, NC (where they film the show). The pier they walked on looked exactly like that patio/pier they were on when drinking coffee in an earlier episode. I love these ship museums that one can tour about. If anyone is interested, link to their site. When the keel of NORTH CAROLINA was laid in October of 1937, she was the first battleship to be constructed in sixteen years. She became the first of ten fast battleships to join American fleet in World War II. During World War II, NORTH CAROLINA participated in every major naval offensive in the Pacific area of operations and earned 15 battle stars. 2 Link to comment
Sasha February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 (edited) I agree with 3dog. There is a suspension of disbelief watching a show like this but some of the writing is just sloppy. I can believe in crazy ass Thomas Jefferson witch hologram but Jenny not giving Abby a quick heads up on Frank? Jefferson was cool but did he actually help? His sole purpose seemed to be soothing Cranes hurt feelings. They need to tighten up their shit. If they didn't have this cast (minus KW) to elevate the writing the scripts are bordering on Sci Fy made for TV drek. It is a very good looking show but you can only get by on looks for so long (KW). Please go back to modeling or starring along side thespians like Kellan Lutz. Nope I am not going to edit to be kinder. Sometimes ya just have to be cruel to be kind. This may be America but you cannot be anything you want. I wanted to be a quarterback for The Ohio State Buckeyes. But I am a 5'4" 110 pound girl and it didn't happen. KW has almost tanked this show with her talent and I don't think bad witch is going to be an Emmy performance. I want her dead and gone. Edited February 10, 2015 by Sasha 4 Link to comment
johntfs February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 I find I almost never agree with the majority of posters here, I thought this one was OK but to me it lacked the emotional pull some of the better episodes have had. Couldn't they have destroyed the creatures (even if it took multiple trips) rather than the entire structure? Not a bad romp but not one of my favorites. The reporter guy is cute but he annoys me as almost as much as Hawley did. I don't care if Abbie or Ichabod have outside love interests/wives/husbands whatever, I just don't find them necessary or interesting I'd rather focus on the supernatural action. I kind of liked the previous episode better. At least it had magic necksnaps. This one just seemed kind of pointless. First it was we have to choose between the workers and the library. So, fine, they choose the workers. Then they decide they have to save whatever hypothetical idiots might wander down the magic manhole at some future time by blowing up the library. No discussion. No, why don't we step back and make a plan. No, just blow up this irreplaceable resource right this second. Also Katrina will become evil because of Henry's Twig of Evil. Whatever. On the other hand we might end up get a new amusement part attraction: The Wizarding World of Henry Parish. Finally, the Frank/Jenny plot was okay as far as it went, but it didn't go to the logical conclusion. The logical conclusion is Frank saying "Now I want you to take these accounts to my family after you shoot me in the head and kill me so evil Frank doesn't hurt the people I love." 4 Link to comment
MissAlmond February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 Sleepy Hollow and I have reconciled. Even my anger with Goffman has been tempered, as I now believe everybody at K/O had a hand with the changes of Season 2. “What Lies Beneath” and "Spellcaster" weren't perfect but they both felt like the show I fell in love with. I know a lot of you disagree, but I had no problems with Katrina and Henry in either episode. But then again, I never minded Katrina in smaller doses and if Henry has to be there, him beguiling Katrina and the two joining forces is an okay storyline with me. Outside of quick flashbacks, I don’t need anymore in depth background story episodes be it, Crane, Katrina or Abbie. I also don’t care if I ever see Calvin again. OTOH, I hope Calvin’s brother and co-workers put in another appearance because I want to have the town of Sleepy Hollow. The good. The evil. The skeptics. The innocents. And the ones who have come face to face with the craziness in town but told it was all a hallucination. None of these people need to have speaking parts, I just want Sleepy Hollow to have townspeople who pop up on a consistent basis. This episode gave me what I wanted from this show: Abbie/Ichabod together. A crazy twist on American history. Frank. A recurring Jenny. I’m even cool with Limited Edition Evil Katrina and Henry. Bring back Badass Headless and I’m good to go for Season 3. IF there is a Season 3 and I’m really hoping there is. BTW - I've felt so much better going forward with this show since I started avoiding all the other "stuff" (links, blogs, twitter) surrounding it. This place, however, I like to return to. 4 Link to comment
Sparkling Beth February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 I've never had a problem with Crane being connected to all those historical figures because they were connected to each other. The founding fathers worked together on achieving independence for the colonies, so it seems reasonable to me that if Crane knew Benjamin Franklin, he'd also know George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Abigail Adams, etc. It doesn't seem unlikely to me that there were people back then who were peripherally involved with those men and women but whose names were lost to history. 12 Link to comment
tennisgurl February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 This episode had a lot of silliness, but it was the good kind of silliness, in my opinion. It was back to basics silliness. Not the silliness that makes me want to bang my head against the nearest solid object. Crane being connected to every historical figure in the revolution is pretty ridiculous, but I`m ok with it. Like Sparking Beth said, most of those people were connected to each other in real life, I can buy that, in this shows world, Crane was there too, just lost to history. Again, silly, but I am fine with it. I swear, if they try to act like Katrina turning evil is some spell by Henry, and its not her fault, I will scream. If you want to have her be tempted to the dark side, just commit to it already! 2 Link to comment
Primetimer February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 You'd think an astral pro-Jefferson and his cannibal bouncers would liven up Sleepy Hollow. Think again. Read the story 1 Link to comment
sinkwriter February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 (edited) Didn't Giles do that when he first took over the Magic Box? I want to say that Anya said that to Giles when he opened the Magic Box, and that's how she ended up working for him in the shop? (Because she likes money, heh, and because she knows more about how to shelve magickal things? LOL.) If you want to have her be tempted to the dark side, just commit to it already! That's my thought on this. They already have Frank having to do things against his own will because of Henry. And Andy got roped into working for Moloch even though he didn't want to. Can't Katrina simply be self-serving (which may be at odds with what the Witnesses are trying to accomplish)? That way she's not necessarily choosing to be evil (though that is always an option), but instead her coven's views on the overall situation may conflict with the Witnesses, and so her actions work against theirs, causing trouble. That way, she is responsible for her own choices and deceptions, and Ichabod can choose to end his relationship with her without some sort of ridiculous "but it wasn't her fault, she wasn't in control of her own choices, Henry made her do it" bullshit. Edited February 10, 2015 by sinkwriter 3 Link to comment
ThatBadgerChick February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 Well, this episode of C.H.U.D.: Sleepy Hollow made very little sense, but I'm glad someone at least Googled the Elder Futhark correctly. While there are certainly more elegant ways to combine them, those runes on Irving's palm more or less indicate self-protection or self-defense. And I was super happy that Crane and Abby were together again with no Katrina third-wheeling and bumming everyone out. (We aaaaaallllmost made it through an entire episode without her, too. So close.) Link to comment
kia112 February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 I wanted to be a quarterback for The Ohio State Buckeyes. But I am a 5'4" 110 pound girl and it didn't happen. O-H...! 3 Link to comment
bethy February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 As others have mentioned, I was SO GLAD to see Abbie and Crane working together and backing each other up. When Abbie was arguing for people coming first and blowing up the library I was so afraid that Crane would side with his man-crush Jefferson. But he didn't! And then when he went back to the library I thought, "You lying bastard, you aren't going to do what you told Abbie you would!" And then he did! Loved it. Also Abbie's screaming "Crane!" when he was running back toward the ladder was kind of sweet. I was so ugh on Frank having some thingamabob that masked him from Katrina. She acted all shady after she "read" him! But of course that acting choice wasn't actually connected to what was happening in the moment. Plus. More confirmation that this powerful witch isn't really all that powerful? On the other hand, it was really nice to see Jenny cotton on to something being off with Frank right away. Not sure I trust his explanation to her, but.... All in all I really enjoyed it. I would love to see more Steven Weber as Thomas Jefferson, though. 1 Link to comment
Yolapukka February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 I was so ugh on Frank having some thingamabob that masked him from Katrina. She acted all shady after she "read" him! But of course that acting choice wasn't actually connected to what was happening in the moment. Plus. More confirmation that this powerful witch isn't really all that powerful? She saw some fairly violent, troubling visions through Frank's eyes. I'll buy the idea that the rune shielded the connection to Henry, but beyond that Katrina pronouncing Frank "clean" reads as enormously shady to me, no matter whether she looked blank or attempted some cryptic face-pulling. I have an idea that's probably nothing more than fanwank that evil Katrina is a true self that is surfacing and her kinder, fuzzier aspect is the product of a spell she cast to further her mission of aiding her son and diverting the witnesses from their true purpose. 1 Link to comment
bethy February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 She saw some fairly violent, troubling visions through Frank's eyes. I'll buy the idea that the rune shielded the connection to Henry, but beyond that Katrina pronouncing Frank "clean" reads as enormously shady to me, no matter whether she looked blank or attempted some cryptic face-pulling. And I guess it's possible that Frank is lying about that. 2 Link to comment
vanarnd1 February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 This episode felt very much like Season 1 in that it was entertaining and had good action even though the story was all over the place. It is a shame the writers spent so much time trying on the Crane love story/soap opera when all they have to do is show Ichabbie working together and being the same page and it makes for a good episode. Even having a different character like Calvin adds to the show because it keeps them on course as Witnesses and doesn't bog down the show. I did like the Jenny/Frank scenes even though they seemed to add details about Frank's story at the last second to make it work. And it seems like from the promo for next week they are turning Katrina evil as quickly as possible which is a good thing IMO. It feels like this episode and the upcoming ones have been written taking fan feedback into account and I hope they can end the season strong because there is still potential within the show when they focus on what works. 4 Link to comment
Amethyst February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 This episode felt more like season one, which is a good thing, but them destroying the Fenestella just felt mind-numbingly dumb to me. Even if they had managed to grab that box full of scripts or scrolls or whatever it was that Jefferson had, it would have been better than losing the whole place. And while it's clear that they're listening to the viewers complaints (like Abbie and Ichabod talking in the beginning about how they have nothing else to fight, meaning there is no real endgame) the stuff with Katrina was bittersweet. Being a villain is really the only way her character can be salvaged, but they're implying that all these outside forces are pushing her to evil, as opposed to her own actions being the main reason. She doesn't get absolved of all of her bullshit because evil just "happens" to be inside of her. Nice try writers, with the enchanted rose, but Katrina has been bound to Henry from the very beginning. I believe that Katrina does love and care for her family but she's also a manipulative, deceitful, self-serving woman whose actions (and inaction) have caused the deaths of many. 3 Link to comment
savinggrace February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 I know I'm such a Debbie Downer but I wasn't feelin this episode. Too many dumb things happened that I couldn't just brush off as SH camp. Others have pointed out the Witnesses wandering down into the depths with no back up and minimal ammo. Abbie also went wandering alone and pointing her flashlight in the lair of the sleeping Reavers. I get that the Witnesses are brave but come on. The loss of Hologram Jefferson is frustrating because he could have been a great recurring resource. This writing crew loves to introduce characters with promise then kill them off. Watching them blow up all that potential knowledge was cringe-inducing especially after Jeffereson said all the info on why they were chosen as Witnesses -- basically questions we all want to know the answers to-- could be found there. I also thought it made no sense for the two Witnesses -who I assume operate in secrecy to avoid a public panic- to allow a reporter along on their investigation. That Abbie would be all "yeah I trust this reporter not to blab" and then practically get him to pinky swear was eye-roll inducing. I'm know I'm going to come across salty about Calvin because I was one of the few Hawley fans but he seriously made me miss Hawley. His intro was so abrasive compared to Hawley's laid back appearance on the pier in The Root of All Evil. I get the sense the writer's noted every criticism of Hawley (i.e. He's White, morally dubious, not good enough for Abbie..etc) and then over-compensated with Calvin --he's Black, upstanding, Navy Seal, intrepid reporter..etc. They even gave him Hawley's wardrobe. The show desperately needed a character with some sense of fun and humor and Calvin will be more of the same. This show does not need another uptight, serious morally upstanding person.It certainly doesn't need a nosey reporter poking around getting in the Witnesses way. I hope this was Calvin's last episode but somehow I doubt it. 2 Link to comment
Yolapukka February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 I guess I'm not entirely understanding the "Frank is Lying" concept because I thought we already had that confirmed as of the prior episode. The way I understand the whole timeline and effect of the rune is; He was tricked into signing his soul over to Henry in exchange for largely worthless legal representation, was given an out he refused to take if he provided Henry with a soul obtained through murder, escaped the asylum under his own steam, went to ground, showed up to battle alongside the witnesses and was killed, whereupon his soul should have come into the possession of Henry. He showed up after his funeral in a convenience store and then later the police station apparently alive. Katrina performed a magic ritual to see if he was free of other influences and pronounced him clean. According to Frank in this episode, he slipped into Fredricks manor (after the escape but before death?) and stole a rune from Henry that had the power to shield a part of his soul from Henry's control which is why he has had some agency and it also had the effect of (supposedly) preventing Katrina from detecting Henry's influence. The protection the rune offered is fading and with it the part of Frank that is not under Henry's control. He says he is no longer to be trusted and I certainly don't think he's lying about that part. Is the lie about how the rune came into his possession,? it's effects? or is the lie about his reasons for stealing the flash-drive with the Hellfire Club's records on it. He says it's to use their funds to get his family well away from Sleepy Hollow and himself, so is the suspicion that he actually wants it for Henry's benefit or that he is setting a trap for Jenny? Link to comment
bethy February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 I was thinking he might be setting a trap for Jenny. But I have not been playing close enough attention to what's going on this season to provide any sort of reasoned explanation for why I think that. Link to comment
rubyred February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 Bless Nicole Beharie for her commitment to her character. Doesn't matter how attractive the eye candy, they're still getting the cop eyes. I also enjoyed the banter from actual SH residents (the engineer/surveyors), aka normal folk. 1 Link to comment
DJG1122 February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 (edited) I got the impression that FOX was saying " We really did hear you and this episode goes back to what you liked about S1". Edited February 10, 2015 by DJG1122 2 Link to comment
archiesmom February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 After a re-watch (you're welcome FOX) I noticed a lo tof heavy handed nods from the writers. Especially the stuff about having faith and not knowing what the seven years of tribulations entails. I'm thinking it's a positive thing they blew up the Jefferson library. If they had the answers there would be no need for further story. I really loved the flashback to Corbin. I'ts nice when they acknowledge Abbie has a backstory too. I may kick myself later for this but I almost would've dealt with more Katrina this episode if they had given her some agency. They could've had her playing around with her dark magic, decimating the plant life in the back yard and actually enjoying the power and control she has. Instead she was too tired in the middle of the day to do anything but nap and get tricked. Also, how weird that Katrina keeps a basin of water around to wash up in. I don't think she's acclimating to this century as well as Ichabod. Link to comment
sinkwriter February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 (edited) I'm thinking it's a positive thing they blew up the Jefferson library. If they had the answers there would be no need for further story. I don't mind that they blew up the library. Like archiesmom says in the quote above, if you have all the answers, there's no story. Nothing for the characters to go through. It's all laid out for them. But I do wish they'd gotten at least one book out of it! The room was filled with potential answers, or things that could stir up more questions, and unless we find out next week that Ichabod got smart and snagged something on his way out the door, they got nothing from it. Not even verbal information from holo-Jefferson. They could have gotten at the very least a starting point, partial answers to give them something to work with, something to build upon, instead of scrambling around in the dark, not knowing where to go or what to do or what's most important. It leaves them flailing, and makes the writing for their "journey" seem aimless too. If they'd gotten even one tidbit of information from Jefferson, then I'd feel like, okay, now we see a part of the path, we know they're going to go in this direction and focus on this detail and see where it leads them from there. But it just felt like they spent too much time chatting with Jefferson, when so much is at stake. It should have felt more urgent, but it didn't. I think even Sarah in her recap pointed out that they all stood around talking when - HELLO?! - there are at least two engineer guys who are about to become some reaver creature's midnight snack! No time to waste on "ah, remember when..."! Edited February 10, 2015 by sinkwriter 1 Link to comment
phoenics February 11, 2015 Share February 11, 2015 But I do wish they'd gotten at least one book out of it! The room was filled with potential answers, or things that could stir up more questions, and unless we find out next week that Ichabod got smart and snagged something on his way out the door, they got nothing from it. Not even verbal information from holo-Jefferson. They didn't even have to have Ichabod swipe something - he could have just read it. He has a photographic memory! I agree this was a huge miss by the writers... I kept waiting for Ichabod and Abbie to see something that they could have used later on as a starting point for more information about their role as witnesses. Missed opportunity by the writers. After that whole mess last year about Ichabod redrawing the map (that they've conveniently forgotten) you'd think they could have let him use that photographic memory for something good this time rather than another "save Katrina" plot. 4 Link to comment
RiddleyWalker February 11, 2015 Share February 11, 2015 (edited) Some thoughts on the episode. I've been climbing out of plot-holes all day so it's taken awhile to get this up. ;) Things I liked... 1. Lots of action. It may not make a lot of sense (semi-automatic crossbow anyone?) but it was ACTION! Hell Yeah! 2. Ichabod and Abbie as the focus and thinking as a team (or couple?) (even if blowing up the, the…whatever that library thing of Jefferson's is called was unnecessary--though it could come in to play if there's a season 3. You know, digging in the ruins and finding a key book or something...) 3. Loved Jenny not being taken in by Irving 4. Loved Irving... 5. Minimal Katrina 6. Calvin the journalist guy wasn't horrible…potential there but a bit annoying 7. Henry seemed well used in this episode..though I'm not sure he's the answer for a "Big Bad" we'd love to hate for the long-term 8. Liked Stephen Weber as Jefferson. I like the Twistory elements tremendously even if totally insane. 9. Finally, very Season 1 vibe (warts and all) It's a starting point for getting back on track but there remain problems (present in S1) that I hope they fix if there's a Season 3 as far as the overall mythology etc. Things I Didn't Like... 1. Potentially making Katrina's evil the result of Henry's evil roses…(Good God! Poison's song "Every Rose Has Its Thorn" kept going through my head…and I HATE that song!) I want Katrina to CHOOSE to be Eeeeevil! 2.The numerous plotholes. (The existence of the Reavers, blowing up the library instead of trying something else, acquiescing to a journalist…) 3. Continued lack of overall direction for Team Witness (which won't be addressed until S3 if there is one) 4. The brief appearance and quick end of another character we might like to see again--i.e. Jefferson. Though I suppose he could return in flashbacks. There it is. More positives than negatives which is always a good thing. Edited February 11, 2015 by RiddleyWalker 4 Link to comment
phoenics February 11, 2015 Share February 11, 2015 Did anyone else get a "Jor El" kind of vibe from this? I kinda chuckled about it and thought of Russell Crowe's avatar in Man of Steel, lol. 1 Link to comment
applecrisp February 11, 2015 Share February 11, 2015 Just don't think Thomas Jefferson was all that. He was 100% percent for slavery and HE did not write the Declaration of Independence, it was a collaborative effort. I just can't stand the guy, talk about an ego. I wish they would sandblast him off of Mt. Rushmore!! Read John Addams biography. He gets so much credit it really irks. 2 Link to comment
Terrafamilia February 11, 2015 Share February 11, 2015 I just felt this episode wasn't well constructed. Plus, someone decided they needed shaky-cam. I like Sharif Atkins but why do intrepid reporters have to be so smug about being intrepid reporters? It's like they are just using the whole first amendment and the people's right to know thing to give cover for an inflated sense of self-importance. He also found Abbie's e-mail right quick. The design of the Fenestela was a bit wonky. Ichabod and Abbie were brought in through to front door to avoid the Reavers. Great, but wait, apparently the Reavers don't need no stinkin' front door. They have a wide open back door to their nest that continues straight through to the Fenestela's main floor. Apparently it's lights out at 6pm over at Sleepy Hollow PD. Or the evidence room is waaaay out of the way. Oh, Henry, black roses are not the best idea for a Mother's Day gift. 2 Link to comment
DeLurker February 11, 2015 Share February 11, 2015 They didn't even have to have Ichabod swipe something - he could have just read it. He has a photographic memory! I agree this was a huge miss by the writers... I kept waiting for Ichabod and Abbie to see something that they could have used later on as a starting point for more information about their role as witnesses.Missed opportunity by the writers.After that whole mess last year about Ichabod redrawing the map (that they've conveniently forgotten) you'd think they could have let him use that photographic memory for something good this time rather than another "save Katrina" plot. They didn't forget. If they would have saved any information by taking a picture or by memory, the writers would need to have a clue about where this story was going. And they don't. Plus it would have been info about the Witnesses and not their much maligned Katrina. Can't have that silly rabbit! 3 Link to comment
jhlipton February 11, 2015 Share February 11, 2015 This episode was almost certainly rewritten and reshot over the past few months. As such, I'm willing to give some of the dumber aspects a pass -- a small price to pay for awesome IchAbbie and almost no Katrina. Jenny will clearly help him find another way to regain it (I still think it's gotta be some grade A supernatural bullshit that you can sign away your soul w/o knowing you are signing away your soul). Frank is gonna get off on a technicality! It's happened in a few stories. I've never had a problem with Crane being connected to all those historical figures because they were connected to each other. One of the best lines of the night was Jefferson gloating over outlasting Adams. They had become adversaries, then froiends again but both were determined to out-live the other. They died 5 hours apart, on July 4, 1826, with Jefferson going first. It may not make a lot of sense (semi-automatic crossbow anyone?) but it was ACTION! Hell Yeah! NERF has several semi-auto cross-bows. All you need is a revolver-like turning mechanism and a way to pull the string pack. So that's probably the least outrageous thing pf the episode. 2 Link to comment
TrininisaScorp February 11, 2015 Share February 11, 2015 I found that to be a fun episode! Stupid, but fun! That's the Sleepy Hollow I expect to have on a Monday night. Crane is friends with all the important revolutionary figures? Sure! Why not!? They destroy the room that potential holds important knowledge without taking a damn thing? Sure! 'Course! Like many of you, Sharif Atkins was a welcome figure. He's a cool actor and I'm hoping we see him again. Randomly, my buddy played the dude that got eaten. I was so excited to see him and then he was a corpse. LOL. Oh, Katrina. I just can't with you. I think part of my issue with the character has to do with the snail pacing her scenes bring. Like, we're all action, quips and chemistry, yay! Then, her scenes are so slow and uninteresting to me by comparison. There seems to be a lot of tell and little show with her. Now, she's going dark? Meh. I'm not sure I can bring myself to care. Sorry, show. 2 Link to comment
Dagny February 11, 2015 Share February 11, 2015 it reminded me a bit of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. Indy couldn't take the Holy Grail past the seal or it wouldn't work and you couldn't leave the cave if you wanted to be immortal. Powered by the Tesseract. 2 Link to comment
tveyeonyou February 11, 2015 Share February 11, 2015 If the founding fathers and witches can create a hologram, why can't we? And it looks like Katrina is going to go all Dark Willow soon. All I could think about was why do the Reavers look so much like the uber-vamps? Firefly plus Buffy The Vampire Slayer, whatever, I still like this show, except for Katrina of course. 1 Link to comment
Notwisconsin February 11, 2015 Share February 11, 2015 Just don't think Thomas Jefferson was all that. He was 100% percent for slavery and HE did not write the Declaration of Independence, it was a collaborative effort. Sorry kiddo, Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence. While there was some input from others, he wrote EVERY SINGLE WORD. Link to comment
WearyTraveler February 11, 2015 Share February 11, 2015 Re: Steven Weber, he's playing a prominent role in the current season of Helix on SyFy (very good show, BTW, if you want to check it out), so, I was surprised he had time to do this stint as Jefferson, but maybe they shoot with different schedules. In any case, it's like Weber got commitment phobic after Wings, he's never on any show for very long. :D Link to comment
Helena Dax February 11, 2015 Share February 11, 2015 (edited) I liked it a lot. As dumb as it is that they couldn't get any information from Jefferson, I enjoyed the rest of the episode. One of the reasons it felt like S1 was that Abbie and Ichabod were acting as if Katrina didn't exist. Iirc, they didn't even say her name and watching Crane in this episode, you'd never think he's a married man. I don't think that black rose means Katrina is going to be an innocent victim like Irving, forced to follow Henry against her will. She's always had a dark side, she's always been manipulative and a liar. A new love interest for Abbie who hasn't been in a previous relationship with Jenny? I approve. Plus, I like Sharif Atkins. Edited February 11, 2015 by Helena Dax 3 Link to comment
Snookums February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 (edited) Reavers? Show, Rule Number One: When I am watching you do not make me think "Ohhh, Firefly. That was a good show. I wish I was watching Firefly right now." And speaking of said Not Firefly Reavers: did they go gently into that good night? What the hell did Jefferson pull out of his hat for them to say "Family, friends, our lives? Sure, we'll give them up to become horrific, warped psychic batteries for your little Proto-Apple Magic Library! Whee, it'll be fun!" I'm guessing not a lot, especially since Thomas "Sally Hemmings and I had a perfectly equal relationship that in no way involved threatening to sell our children if she left me during our tour of France" Jefferson didn't bother to feed them for two hundred years. Plus, the plans for this place were even more slipshod and sloppily written then usual. How were the Witnesses supposed to use this sanctuary of knowledge, exactly? If the NF Reavers can't differentiate between them and any other rando that might wander down there, they'd have to fight their way through them every time, and after the Reavers are gone, doesn't the whole thing power down? Speaking of people with imperfect grasps of their jobs: hey, Tunnel Guys? Who are not, as I first thought, Ghosthunter-type brah adventurer wannabes but actual employed adult humans with presumable engineering degrees? Maybe NOT so much with the knocking down of fragile brick walls that are, for all you know, supporting a good deal of weight here in this underground tunnel that lies beneath a heavily populated area, okay? I really liked this episode, it reminded me a bit of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade Me too, in that people who are supposed to be professionals/geniuses show the worst, most destructive instincts EVER. Edited February 12, 2015 by Snookums 3 Link to comment
Tippi Blevins February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 I don't understand the Reavers as guards. Why would they be trying to kill the Witnesses when they were supposed to be protecting the Fenestella for the Witnesses? Were they just super hungry and cranky after not eating for so long? Should Crane and Abbie have come back with a crate of Snickers? Why on earth were there so many of them? It seemed like overkill. Were they breeding down there? I felt kind of bad for them, and I don't think I was supposed to. If Katrina tries to argue on behalf of her sweet baby boy again, somebody needs to read her the riot act. How many times does a guy have to get his mother pregnant and/or poison her before she smartens up about him? 2 Link to comment
Miss Dee February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 Oh my God I so want to see a Snickers commercial with the Reavers now. Best product placement ever. I loved the show; despite the plot holes it had so much of what I loved from Season 1 in it. This is the show I want renewed. Link to comment
jhlipton February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 Here's the deal with the Reavers: They were normal people (more or less) whose normal activity powered the McGuffinator. But at least one Witness was supposed to stop by every now and again (until Crane came back) and keep them civilized. Jefferson couldn't do it himself being dead and/or a hologram. But look. This was going to be another Katrina-centric episode. Some time in the past few months, the FOX execs said "Nah uh!" and hired some writers to slap together an Ichie and Abbie episode, then built the sets, got Mison and Beharie back from Vacationville and shot the dang thing. Is it any wonder that it doesn't make any sense? I'm surprised it makes as much sense as it did! So gift horses, mouths, yadda yadda, blah blah blah. 7 Link to comment
Dobian February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 (edited) The one thing that bugged me about this episode was the needless and illogical destruction of this "Library of Alexandria" of occult information. Why does Ichabod have to set the bomb timer to one minute, just so we can have that down-to-the-wire countdown to the last second so he just gets out in time? I hate that kind of contrived suspense. How about you set the timer to two minutes? No, how about you set the timer to thirty minutes, go down there with guns, and hold the hallway while you carry up the most important books and that box of papers? How about you bring Jenny down there with more firepower and kill all of those zombie guards? It looked like there were just a couple dozen of them at best, not like it's an army. Once those men were safe, their focus should have been on securing as much of the material in that library as possible. Those zombie guards had been down there for two hundred years not bothering anybody, now all of a sudden it's a big risk if they don't blow them up in the next five minutes? A wasted opportunity for Jefferson too. They could have hooked up some cable tv down there for him so he could watch all the news channels, providing amusing anecdotes every week on the stupidity of our current government! Edited February 12, 2015 by Dobian 2 Link to comment
apgold February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 (edited) I'm usually good at recognizing actors I know from other shows, but it must've been my flu-like haze that prevented me from realizing that the journalist was Jones (Sharif Atkins) from "White Collar." Maybe it was the facial hair or seeing him out of a FBI suit that did it. I felt this ep was trying very hard to recapture some S1 goodness and felt that they succeeded on some level, but not quite. Was so happy to be Katrina free until she showed up at the end. It's so true, KW has maybe one or two expressions in her acting arsenal. I think I liked the Frank/Jenny stuff the best. And I like reading Orlando Jones' tweets during the show - he's got some crazy notions and hashtags. I like when he called Ichabod Dickabod. I'm assuming he must have all of his tweets written before the show airs and then just posts them. He's not coming up with that on the fly. Edited February 12, 2015 by apgold Link to comment
Iamsweetdee February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 (edited) I'm assuming he must have all of his tweets written before the show airs and then just posts them. He's not coming up with that on the fly. You know he used to write for comedy. He was a writer on MadTv. I'm pretty sure he can whip them out on the fly. Edited February 12, 2015 by Iamsweetdee 1 Link to comment
DeLurker February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 (edited) Plus he probably has an abundance of time on the set while others are filming their scenes. A wasted opportunity for Jefferson too. They could have hooked up some cable tv down there for him so he could watch all the news channels, providing amusing anecdotes every week on the stupidity of our current government! I'd watch this. Edited February 13, 2015 by DeLurker 1 Link to comment
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