S01.E03: The Devil Quotes Scripture

[Tara Ariano]

The Lyons visit Philadelphia and get a taste of what their lives could have been like if Lucious never became a giant success in the music biz; and tensions rise when another woman tries to catch Hakeem's eye; at the same time, Lucious is trying to promote Hakeem's relationship with hip-hop star Tianna.

[Syndicate]

OMG Andre!  He's such a man slut and his wife knows it.  Rhonda acting as the woman he fucked was bizarre!

[sarkygal]

Damn, If I wanted my tv viewing to be interrupted every 5 minutes, I'd be watching OWN! Fox just can't let a good thing be. They get a hit show and chop the damn thing up with commercials. I'll have to re-watch this now.

[Primetimer]

And neither does some hilariously terrible acting in this week's Empire.

Read the story

[SimoneS]

Damn, I want someone to stab Lucious in the throat.  He goes from weeping over Bunky to viciously attacking Cookie and Jamal in two seconds. I couldn't help feel sorry for him by the end.  What a mess of a human being. Terrence Howard is so damn talented.

 

Cookie is the woman. That prayer had me rolling. I loved when she told Lucious that he was going to hell and then that he cannot hide his secret from her. Sounds like Cookie is testifying against her supplier.

 

Dre and his wife are some freaks. I like it.

 

Ah, Hakeem so many damn mommy and daddy issues. Cookie made him give her that hand for the prayer.

 

Go Jamal! Take your father's Empire from him. Good to see Jamal found his backbone.

 

I feel for Anika. Lucious just lets Cookie walk all over her like she walks over him. 

 

I loved Gladis Knight at Bunkie's funeral. I hope the cop locks Lucious' butt up.

Edited January 22, 2015 by SimoneS

[MrsRafaelBarba]

That final shot, of Jussie breaking the fourth wall.

Very handsome young man.

So happy Jamal finally grew a backbone.

Terrence up there in church, serving up Daddy Rich from Carwash 70's REALness.

[Scarlett45]

My glad Jamal stood up to Lucious and left. While I don't agree with Lucious' homophobia and parenting, he IS footing the entire bill- Jamal isn't right out of high school, in the last couple of years he could have made himself financially independent. Not only the entire bill, but the entire lavish bill. Not just a "nice" apartment, but a lavish one etc. Good for him for standing up- In the interim he can stay with Cookie.

I don't think Lucious hates Jamal. He hates that Jamal is GAY, but he doesn't hate Jamal. I too think he will have more respect for Jamal if he branches out on his own.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Scarlett45

[Lizboo]

I signed up tonight after being a long time lurker to say- I love this show! This episode gave me life tonight! Jamal was like " i am you on steroids" i was like yeah tell him. Take that Lushious or however you spell your name!

[Neurochick]

I am starting to think that Cookie is a shitty mother. She seems to only love Jamal and couldn't give two fucks about her other two sons.

She's a bitch to boo boo kitty too. But I think I get that.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Neurochick

[Artsda]

Well, wow Andre and his wife are freaky. That shocked me, first that he cheated and then that she knew and they played it out later. 

 

Hakeem's got some serious Mommy issues. I love it and his reaction and anger to Cookie, has his choice in woman make sense. 

 

I love the cameos in this show. Naomi, Gladys, Cuba! 

 

Good for Jamal, he proclaimed all this anger and told off his dad a lot, but yet Lucious was right. He was living in a $12,000 loft with his boyfriend that his father paid for. As much as Lucious is against Jamal's being gay he didn't put him out in the street with no home, money or tough love. He continued to pay his rent while he also lived with another man, so I think deep down there's love for Jamal from Lucious, at least there's love as a parent to not want his son out there alone without a roof over his head. 

 

Jamal walking out, to stand on his own I respect a lot. He couldn't sprout what he's been saying while living off Lucious's money. But he'll go out there and prove himself on his own 2 feet. 

Edited January 22, 2015 by Artsda

[NorthstarATL]

I just knew that after Jamal's independent speech that Luscious was going to pull the rug out from under him financially! Do we know yet what Michael does? I mean, for a living? Because he didn't seem to have a back-up plan. Loved seeing Naomi Campbell! I want a scene where she and Cookie test their aim with projectiles! Cookie made the episode as always for me! Using Grace as a weapon is SO her! That song was not all that, but the reactioons were. (And, Show, if you're going to give actual equal time to same sex relationships, and not just use them as a PSA, you might want to have Jamal focus on Michael when he's singing, and not his mother. That's apparently his brother's territory.)

[peridot]

I love this soapy mess.  Lucius just beat the hell out of the manager with no fear of repercussions.  I loved that the manager came up with a huge donut in his mouth.

 

It seemed scenes were jumping all over the place tonight, I hope that doesn't continue.  I didn't understand a word the witness said (wasn't his name Salty Nuts?!), I thought the detective would show him a picture of Andre.

 

I was a bit afraid for Cookie after the girlfriend showed the surveillance photos, glad Lucius seems to have bought the story for now.

[Ohwell]

I thought most of the acting this episode was kind of strange, i.e., not very good.  I haven't thought much of Terrence Howard's acting in the past but, surprisingly, I think he's doing the best job so far.  I do hope Cookie tones it down a bit as she becomes more adjusted to life on the outside.

 

As much as I wanted to like the song Jamal was singing because it was Jamal singing it, I thought it was weak. 

 

Also, I think that this show can be good enough that it's not necessary to try and pack in so many guest stars looking for work.  Every now and then would be fine, but I hope this doesn't become a trend week after week.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Ohwell

[Syndicate]

How much did Dre's humping his wife while she knew he viewed her as the woman he cheated on her with have to do with bipolar disorder?  

Edited January 22, 2015 by Syndicate

[Irlandesa]

Good for Jamal, he proclaimed all this anger and told off his dad a lot, but yet Lucious was right. He was living in a $12,000 loft with his boyfriend that his father paid for. As much as Lucious is against Jamal's being gay he didn't put him out in the street with no home, money or tough love. He continued to pay his rent while he also lived with another man, so I think deep down there's love for Jamal from Lucious, at least there's love as a parent to not want his son out there alone without a roof over his head.

It could be about wanting to make sure his son had a roof over his head but there are other reasons.  Remember, Lucious has an empire to run and an image to uphold.  Right or wrong, he thinks having  a gay son would hurt that image.  Sometimes people support others out of love.  Sometimes people support others as a way of control.  There seemed to be an unspoken (or maybe spoken) agreement between them that as long as Lucious was supporting him, Jamal would remain somewhat closeted--or at least not gay in a magazine cover kind of way.

 

He may claim to love Jamal in a 'hate the sin, love the sinner' kind of way but with the insults, the beatings and disrespect, he doesn't act towards his son in a loving way.

 

Jamal was great at the end but I still want Cookie to rule it all.

 

I think the show was more fair to Anika in this episode.  I still am 100% on Cookie's side but I do think Anika is going to be tougher than she may seem.

 

I knew as soon as Rhonda asked her hubby how he convinced the deputy mayor to give him info, that they had an open marriage.  I love this angle so much more than the faithless dog approach.

[thuganomics85]

So, Andre is not only sleeping around with the Deputy Chief (I wonder if there are others), but Rhonda knows that, and it totally turned on by it.  Meanwhile, Hakeem seems to in some kind of bizarre relationship with an older woman, and likes to call her mother.   Yeah, Lucious?  Jamal might be gay and you might hate that, but it seems like he has the most normal relationship out of your sons.  Of course, Lucious might not even care about Andre sleeping with other women, as long as they are women.

 

Lucious delivering Bunky's eulogy was epic in pure bullshit.  What a performance.  I would totally believe it if I didn't see him blast Bunky with my own eyes.  At least one detective is on the case and is looking at him.  Man, if/when Cookie finds out, I would not want to be Lucious.

 

Cookie is still the best.  I just love how anytime she appears, things go crazy.  No one is safe with her, and I wouldn't have it any other way.  But my favorite continues to be the hate-off between her and Anika.  I can not wait for the day they finally come to blows.

 

Cuba Gooding Jr.!  Yeah, I know he pretty much squander any opportunities he got after winning an Oscar (Daddy Day Camp?  Boat Trip?  Freaking Snow Dogs!  Come on, man!), but I still have a bizarre affection for him.  His scene was entertaining.

 

Glad that Jamal has finally had enough, and is now ready to go after Empire himself.

 

Still enjoying the hell out of this show and all it's cheesy glory.

[Ohwell]

I think the show was more fair to Anika in this episode.  I still am 100% on Cookie's side but I do think Anika is going to be tougher than she may seem.

Which would make things much more interesting.  While Cookie is tough, she's also loud and might be more likely to telegraph her moves.  Anika, on the other hand, could be one of those stealth, quiet, deadly bitches.  We'll see.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Ohwell

[DearEvette]

I think the show was more fair to Anika in this episode.  I still am 100% on Cookie's side but I do think Anika is going to be tougher than she may seem.

 

I knew as soon as Rhonda asked her hubby how he convinced the deputy mayor to give him info, that they had an open marriage.  I love this angle so much more than the faithless dog approach.

 

I am 100% TeamCookie, but you are right, I am liking seeing that Annika has some claws too.  Although, pulling out Debutante cred as a threat is rather...lame.  Her delivery was fab, but Cookie been in prison for 17 years.  Has Annika not watched Oz?  I know rich chicks can be underhanded and cut-throat but there is a whole other animal layer of survival and cunning in a prison.  The knowledge that you dressed up for a Cotillion just doesn't inspire as much fear.  But baby steps.  I am still here for a more level playing field and long as Cookie triumphs the most.

 

Also, Dre & Rhonda's marriage seems like it works.  It feels like the show is side-stepping cliches with them.  They feel like a a kinkier and scarier Ice-T and Coco.

 

I loved all the cameos.  Naomi Campbell strutting in in her gold shorts-jumpsuit just about had me singing a hymn.  She is fab.

 

I liked the Agent Carter scenes.  That actress and Taraji had some fun chemistry,

Edited January 22, 2015 by DearEvette

[Congo]

I hope they use the clip of Cookie saying Grace at the Emmys later this year when Taraji is nominated for Best Actress!

[leisawoo]

In response to the Dre/Rhonda sexual acting out being related to bipolar: I am bipolar and while promiscuity often factors in because of the mania, it tends to remain in your younger years until you find a stable relationship. Hopefully, I've been blessed to not have those issue since finding my husband. However, it may be that promiscuity is a major issue for Andre. I honestly believe that Rhonda has fooled herself into accepting this and overlooking it so that she can one day be Queen Bee. Don't think its gonna end that way but I think that's how she's playing it. She accepts it, grits her teeth and plays along cause by God she's in it and she wants to win it.

[aprilbabe]

I must say I loved the juxpositiom between ole school Cookie/Lucious and Cookie/Jamal and that song. Cookie is molding Jamal just like she did Lucious and based on Lucious' success Lucious should be worried.

I didn't like the song though.

I'm convinced in the end Cookie and Jamal will end up running empire.

I lol'd at cookies response to Anika threatening to cut her throat saying that she was turned on.

[Irlandesa]

I honestly believe that Rhonda has fooled herself into accepting this and overlooking it so that she can one day be Queen Bee. Don't think its gonna end that way but I think that's how she's playing it. She accepts it, grits her teeth and plays along cause by God she's in it and she wants to win it.

I don't think she has fooled herself into anything.  I think she legitimately digs an open marriage.  It even almost looked like she had a cuckhold fetish considering how she wanted to reenact his seduction.  Don't get me wrong, I think she has her eye on the prize but I also think she's a legit kinsker.  Kinksters can be ambitious too.

 

I'd like to address something in the very enjoyable recap:

 

Everything about that is idiotic, from the idea that a parole officer would visit a just-released felon at her place of business to the jean jacket Carter wears as a "disguise" to the fact that Lucious doesn't recognize her, even though he's already seen surveillance footage of her talking to Cookie.

 

She's not wearing the jean jacket to "disguise" herself beyond recognition.  She knows Lucious has seen her photo from her meeting with Cookie in the car.  She figures he probably has made her as some kind of authority figure so she's trying to pass herself just as a parole officer and the meeting at the club was just a parole officer checking up on her parolee.  She doesn't want him digging further into  Cookie's business which is what he'd do if he thought she was something other than a parole office.  We'll see if he bought it or not in later episodes but for now it seemed to have worked.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Irlandesa

[SimoneS]

King Lear was a tragedy and the historical events around The Lion in Winter were not exactly cheery. I see nothing, but despair and death ahead for the Lyon family. They will be lucky to hold on to Empire when all is said and done. Going public might make them rich, but it will make them vulnerable to losing control of Empire.

 

I saw Tianna kissing a girl and liking it in that preview. I wonder if she is in the closet and using Hakeem. You just know that Lucious would drop her like a hot potato if he found out that she was a lesbian. It would explain her willingness to put with Hakeem.

[leisawoo]

I totally agree about the agent. In fact, I turned to Mr. Leisawoo and asked if he didn't think that was obvious. I thought it was pretty slick and plausible. That said, I'm not 100% convinced Loo-shus bought it as he seems to grow more and more paranoid by the episode. I am, thankfully, not well acquainted with the penal system. Don't parole officers show up pretty much when/where they want? Isn't it kind of expected. I mean they might not announce who they are to co-workers or bosses but I know they have to verify employment. It was cool of her to find Puma even if plot driven.

Rhonda could enjoy it and be that kinkster. You could very well be right. I just kind of read in her face that she wasn't pleased about it at first. If it's open, why spy? He looked a little uptight when he saw her standing there. I also thought he tried to play it off at first. Of course, that might be part of the game. I saw it more as she succumbed to the physical manipulations but she didn't seem happy about it. I think we'll def be seeing a lot more of their games though and I'm down with that. I'll be a "voyeur" lol. Hakeem and Mommy stand in...don't really enjoy though. Maybe cuz I have grown kids, lol. Skeevy to me but I totally get where it comes from. Lee Daniels is a genius!

ETA: color me crazy but I think Rhonda loves Andre or at least did. Bipolar is fuckton of shit to put up with, lol

Edited January 22, 2015 by leisawoo

[Syndicate]

So, Andre is not only sleeping around with the Deputy Chief (I wonder if there are others), but Rhonda knows that, and it totally turned on by it.  Meanwhile, Hakeem seems to in some kind of bizarre relationship with an older woman, and likes to call her mother.   Yeah, Lucious?  Jamal might be gay and you might hate that, but it seems like he has the most normal relationship out of your sons.  Of course, Lucious might not even care about Andre sleeping with other women, as long as they are women.

 

Lucious delivering Bunky's eulogy was epic in pure bullshit.  What a performance.  I would totally believe it if I didn't see him blast Bunky with my own eyes.  At least one detective is on the case and is looking at him.  Man, if/when Cookie finds out, I would not want to be Lucious.

 

Cookie is still the best.  I just love how anytime she appears, things go crazy.  No one is safe with her, and I wouldn't have it any other way.  But my favorite continues to be the hate-off between her and Anika.  I can not wait for the day they finally come to blows.

 

Cuba Gooding Jr.!  Yeah, I know he pretty much squander any opportunities he got after winning an Oscar (Daddy Day Camp?  Boat Trip?  Freaking Snow Dogs!  Come on, man!), but I still have a bizarre affection for him.  His scene was entertaining.

 

Glad that Jamal has finally had enough, and is now ready to go after Empire himself.

 

Still enjoying the hell out of this show and all it's cheesy glory.

Interesting that Lucious' oldest son and youngest son seem the most skeevy while his middle gay son seems normal relationship wise.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Syndicate

[Jazzy24]

Hakeem needs some much needed help, the mommy issues this entitled punk has is enough to have its own show in the previews when Lucious was telling him he will respect his mama(one point to Lucious for making sure his kids respect their mama, that's all he's gonna get though)it seems like he was rapping about his mama.

Annika go somewhere girl.

I'm glad Jamal stood on his own and I did like the song.

Andre and his wife is on a new level of WTF!

Cookie is just Fabulous, I love this fierce chick her prayer had me crying!!

[Irlandesa]

 I just kind of read in her face that she wasn't pleased about it at first. If it's open, why spy? He looked a little uptight when he saw her standing there. I also thought he tried to play it off at first. Of course, that might be part of the game.

I don't know that she was spying (was she?) and you could also be right that she was uncomfortable.  I think the beat when she asked him what he did to get that info was meant to be a suspenseful moment before they revealed that she was all in on his extracurriculars. 

[Malbec]

The best scene, to me, was Cookie trying to introduce herself to the two European songwriters.  Taraji just packed so much into a small scene -- the way Cookie tried to charm them, and then tried to play it off when Anika walked in and effortlessly humiliated her.  It was quietly brutal.

 

It could be about wanting to make sure his son had a roof over his head but there are other reasons.  Remember, Lucious has an empire to run and an image to uphold.  Right or wrong, he thinks having  a gay son would hurt that image.  Sometimes people support others out of love.  Sometimes people support others as a way of control.  There seemed to be an unspoken (or maybe spoken) agreement between them that as long as Lucious was supporting him, Jamal would remain somewhat closeted--or at least not gay in a magazine cover kind of way.

 

He may claim to love Jamal in a 'hate the sin, love the sinner' kind of way but with the insults, the beatings and disrespect, he doesn't act towards his son in a loving way.

 

To me, Luscious showed his character when he rebuffed Michael's attempt at a respectful introduction.  It's one thing to argue that Jamal shouldn't come out to the world because it's bad for business, but Luscious had nothing to lose by treating Michael like a person in a private setting.  I also thought the way Luscious pressured Jamal to stay in the apartment, after Jamal called his bluff and said he was moving out, was a clear sign that he wants Jamal living there because he wants that lever of control.  The idea of Jamal actually moving out and being his own man seems to really rattle Luscious. 

 

In fact, the way Luscious dangles his fortune in front of all three of his sons to make them jump, it seems like that's the only way he really knows how to relate to them anymore.  I think he does love them on some level, but he's also a corrupted character.

 

As for Andre and Rhonda... their marriage increasingly seems to me like a case of water finding its own (kinky) level. I also like the twist that Andre thinks he's done as his father asked regarding the shooting witness, and has no way of knowing his father's now a prime suspect.  Luscious will certainly blame him if he finds out.  Between this and the implications about his mental stability last episode, a fall from grace pretty clearly seems to be in Andre's future.  I've really liked how the actor is playing Andre so far, so I'm hoping they toss him something nice and meaty to work with.

 

[memememe76]

I'm really enjoying/digging the show. I find the workplace drama interesting, and the family drama is fantastic (the best thing about the show). There is still so much to explore--Cookie's relationship with her other two sons, in particular. 

 

I hope we see more of Cuba. There was a gravity to the character that you don't normally see in Cuba's movie characters. 

 

I may have easily missed it, but does MIchael work? What does he do besides being Jamal's partner? The show could a better job of developing the characters' significant others. Rhonda, especially. 

[anonymiss]

I loved that they added depth to the characters with Hakeem's mommy issues via Naomi Campbell and Andre & his wife's cuckolding sex games. 

Nice to see the Cuba Gooding Jr. Good reveal.

[Jx223]

Another really good episode tonight. Some of my favorite scenes tonight were the Cookie/Lucious and Jamal and Lucious scenes. I thought the scenes where Jamal and Lucious were hashing out their feelings was good stuff. I liked seeing Jamal stand up for himself. I think that Lucious was hurt by some of the things Jamal said, but that he also was a bit impressed with him. I don't believe Lucious really wanted Jamal to leave the apartment. Even though he has his issues with Jamal, I believe he loves him and doesn't want him to suffer financially.

 

I also enjoyed Lucious telling Cookie he loved her and the way he interacted with her throughout the episode. I liked the introduction of Puma, and think it's interesting that he seemed to be in love with Cookie, when she was with Lucious. I wonder if he will return and stir some things up.  

Edited January 22, 2015 by Jx223

[Actionmage]

I was a bit afraid for Cookie after the girlfriend showed the surveillance photos, glad Lucius seems to have bought the story for now.

 

Lucious showed us how sociopathic and paranoid he is at this stage. He is holding so many secrets from so many people that he is lashing out in ways, I think, he thought he had outgrown, except as needed. (See: Veronica's manager, Cousin Melvin from Atlanta, now "ex-manager".) 

 

I think Lucious was hammering the wish to have Cookie put back in prison a bit too hard. Iirc, the private eye told Lucious, Anika and Vernon that the woman with Cookie was a Fed. (Maybe Andre, but I'm not sure.)  Cookie needs to listen to more than the "surprise" announcement that he still loves her. Hopefully that look  from Cookie was surprise that he'd pull that out at that time- over Bunky's body.

 

Lucious is just a sociopath. He can have copious tears while talking about Bunky, but those tears were for how much work Bunky's making him do now, imo.  Telling that little boy not to cry? Men don't cry, yet there he was. "Crying" over the loss of Bunky.  

 

What I am loving to hate is that Lucious is doing what every other really rich guy  in TVland does: bribe cops and politicians for info. I hate that in any rich person, IRL or TV, but if Lucious Lyons, in addition to being from where he's from and the way he and Cookie made their cash, I'd have to give him the side-eye. I still side-eye Lu giving that job to Andre.  Maybe Vernon, so it's still a level of remove from "The Family", but using Andre shows how unimportant to the label Andre is ( and this may go back to the 'Cookie and Lu gravitate to the child most like the other' discussion. Is there a Relationship thread yet?)  If any leaks are traced to Empire, it's going to end up at Andre's door, no Lucious' and there goes someone else Lu can throw under another prison bus. ( I wonder if Rhonda was an arrangement by Lucious.)

 

Puma/Dwight was fun; someone who openly and unabashedly adores Cookie for herself.  I hope that Dwight becomes a kind of mentor/ advisor, even though Jamal seems to think he's good as is. Everyone can find something to continue to be better at, so hopefully Jamal didn't inherit Lucious' willful blindness when criticized. I also think that Jamal's looks to Cookie were his way of saying " I hope this is working out how you hoped."  He knew the general history of the song and knew it was to get a reaction out of his dad. Did it!

 

Sister Carol? Cookie's back, so I hope you have your Team Cookie gear ready.

 

Oh, Hakeem.  This wasn't your episode to shine. From the less-than-intimidated "homie" to your older woman of a year catching you with your new woman? Be glad your mom only wanted to hold your hand for grace.

 

Annika with the white Scandinavian brothers was fun, though. Cookie and her 'gobbled guck to you too!' in the failed yet polite voice was great. If they team up on anything, it will have to be fantastic.

 

The cop and the medieval homeless man was welcome. Let it kind of nibble around the edges for a couple of episodes. Still, if I was the cop, I might have whisked Salty Dog (?) off to a safe house/ protective custody. No one would think anything about one missing homeless guy from Lucious' side. I did find the irony strong in Andre dismissing the man with mental health issues as a reliable witness. As someone upthread posted, that might just come around to bite him.

 

Still enjoying the show. Glad things felt like they were moving more this episode. I am looking forward to next week!

[chabelisaywow]

Lu-shoos had me at "irregardless".

Is it just me but when I look at Anika, I think "White Girls."

[Rick Kitchen]

Damn, If I wanted my tv viewing to be interrupted every 5 minutes, I'd be watching OWN! Fox just can't let a good thing be. They get a hit show and chop the damn thing up with commercials. I'll have to re-watch this now.

 

Fox was advertising this as "with limited commercial interruptions"

[Dusty]

 

I may have easily missed it, but does MIchael work? What does he do besides being Jamal's partner? The show could a better job of developing the characters' significant others. Rhonda, especially.

Yeah, I want to know if Michael has a job too.  Or did he just lounge around that loft all day.  I liked last week that they showed that Rhonda has her own thing going career wise.  They've definitely done a better job developing her than Michael although I wouldn't mind a little more.  Andre and Rhonda are the least fleshed out characters on this show and he's supposed to be one of the brothers.

 

I did like Andre messing with Hakeem after the dinner.  Because I will love someone messing with Hakeem always.  Also that's one of the few times, even though Andre is scheming, that I felt like he was an actual brother to at least one of them.  I would like him to see like he's actually part of this family more often instead of someone who just gets invited to eat dinner with them.  Also I really like the way he said "Hakeem" at the end.

 

Also when a guy has to say "I'm a MAN" then it makes me question whether or not they actually are.  That goes for Jamal too in his speech to Lucious at the end, even though I loved it.

 

Okay.  Here we go.  I'm going to admit something.  I love Andre and Rhonda's relationship.  I really do.  I do think that they have an open relationship and it seems like they're the only ones on this show that are honest with each other.  These two crazy kids found each other and made something that works.  Kinks and all.  I can't hate that.  They're scheming little schemers who scheme...but as a team.  I find it interesting how they are together.  I keep trying to see where one side is manipulating the other but other than when he was trying to not take his meds, they've been completely honest with each other and on the same page.

 

Which can't be said for Hakeem and Naomi Campbell.  That was skeevy.  I thought it was funny how Hakeem was like "Yeah my dad gives me money and pretty much everything but I totally blew it up last week ALL BY MYSELF." Um...no you didn't Hakeem.  I seem to remember someone begging their big brother for help...like all the time when it comes to music.  His big great talent.  So far the best talent I've seen from him is his Pouty Face.

 

I hope we see Puma again.  if only because I know Lucious would hate it but also if Lucious is getting some on the regular than so should Cookie.  She's the one that's been locked up for 17 years and Puma would be kind to her.  I want someone other than Jamal to be nice to Cookie.

[Rick Kitchen]

I thought that Andre was intentionally messing with Hakeem to break up him and Jamal.

[maraleia]

Three episodes in and I'm still loving the show. What strikes me the most is that the showrunners didn't give in and cast a whole bunch of white people to counterbalance the Lyon's. It's great to see a show where there is only one white person (Rhonda aka Kaitlin Doubleday) in the main cast while everyone else is a POC.

 

I'm so glad that Jamal is striking out on his own. From what I understand one of the goals that the showrunners have with this show is to blow the lid off of the homophobia that is rampant in the AA community and so far they've done a great job with the story.

[anonymiss]

Okay.  Here we go.  I'm going to admit something.  I love Andre and Rhonda's relationship.  I really do.  I do think that they have an open relationship and it seems like they're the only ones on this show that are honest with each other.  These two crazy kids found each other and made something that works.  Kinks and all.  I can't hate that.  They're scheming little schemers who scheme...but as a team.  I find it interesting how they are together.  I keep trying to see where one side is manipulating the other but other than when he was trying to not take his meds, they've been completely honest with each other and on the same page.

Me too. I liked that they surprised me when I thought I was going to get the same ol' infidelity storyline.

[GrtGzu]

Andre = Sir Fucks-A-Lot.

[Malbec]

I thought that Andre was intentionally messing with Hakeem to break up him and Jamal.

He was totally enacting his plan to set his brothers against each other.  It was so dickish, but I have to admit I did laugh watching Andre just be a straight up troll.

 

Hakeem's mommy issues/kink was such a great development.  The character just got 100% more interesting to me.

[aprilbabe]

Another really good episode tonight. Some of my favorite scenes tonight were the Cookie/Lucious and Jamal and Lucious scenes. I thought the scenes where Jamal and Lucious were hashing out their feelings was good stuff. I liked seeing Jamal stand up for himself. I think that Lucious was hurt by some of the things Jamal said, but that he also was a bit impressed with him. I don't believe Lucious really wanted Jamal to leave the apartment. Even though he has his issues with Jamal, I believe he loves him and doesn't want him to suffer financially.

 

I also enjoyed Lucious telling Cookie he loved her and the way he interacted with her throughout the episode. I liked the introduction of Puma, and think it's interesting that he seemed to be in love with Cookie, when she was with Lucious. I wonder if he will return and stir some things up.  

I liked that too. Although I wasn't sure at first if that was genuine or if he was messing with her head trying to manipulate her. I decided that I think he was being genuine, because I think everything he said in that scene was genuine, including the threat. Cookie and Lucious have one of the most interesting dynamics on the show to me. They're interaction was good in the episode. Lucious isn't annoyed with Cookie as much as he is amused by her, which is why he lets her get away with what she does.(that and guilt) There is clearly a whole bunch of stuff thats been left unsaid between them, that needs to be hashed out. Hopefully we see that soon.

[Milz]

I am starting to think that Cookie is a shitty mother. She seems to only love Jamal and couldn't give two fucks about her other two sons.

 

 

Cookie knows Andre is "set": has a career, makes good money, has a stable marriage (as far as she knows). Cookie knows Hakeem doesn't love her and I think she doesn't want to force him to love her but wants him to come to that himself. Cookie also knows that Lucious has been less than fatherly to Jamal (ie: tossing him into a trash can when he was a little boy) and that Jamal needs an emotionally supportive parent more than a financially supportive parent. She probably also knew that Lucious beat Jamal when he was younger, too.

 

Interesting that Lucious' oldest son and youngest son seem the most skeevy while his middle gay son seems normal relationship wise.

 

Exactly.

 

My glad Jamal stood up to Lucious and left. While I don't agree with Lucious' homophobia and parenting, he IS footing the entire bill- Jamal isn't right out of high school, in the last couple of years he could have made himself financially independent. Not only the entire bill, but the entire lavish bill. Not just a "nice" apartment, but a lavish one etc. Good for him for standing up- In the interim he can stay with Cookie.

I don't think Lucious hates Jamal. He hates that Jamal is GAY, but he doesn't hate Jamal. I too think he will have more respect for Jamal if he branches out on his own.

 

I think Lucious also blames himself for Jamal's sexuality, that something is wrong with him (Lucious) and that's why Jamal is gay. OR perhaps Lucious is a very, very, closeted gay man who is somehow jealous that Jamal has the freedom to express his sexuality when Lucious cannot?

 

I hope they use the clip of Cookie saying Grace at the Emmys later this year when Taraji is nominated for Best Actress!

 

I loved how everyone looked at Annika.

[Neurochick]

Cookie knows Andre is "set": has a career, makes good money, has a stable marriage (as far as she knows). Cookie knows Hakeem doesn't love her and I think she doesn't want to force him to love her but wants him to come to that himself. Cookie also knows that Lucious has been less than fatherly to Jamal (ie: tossing him into a trash can when he was a little boy) and that Jamal needs an emotionally supportive parent more than a financially supportive parent. She probably also knew that Lucious beat Jamal when he was younger, too.

 

 

That's the problem I have with Cookie as a parent.  When "Intervention" was on, I always noticed that the parent gave all their love, time,energy and money to the addict child, while the non addict child was neglected.  Just because you have one son that's "set" and another one you don't know (not Hakeem's fault), doesn't mean you should shower you attention on the one child that you perceive as weak.

 

However, the good part is that Cookie's influence was what made Jamal finally grow a pair and tell his father to fuck off.  He should have done that before, when Cookie arranged that press conference for him to come out.

[Syndicate]

That's the problem I have with Cookie as a parent.  When "Intervention" was on, I always noticed that the parent gave all their love, time,energy and money to the addict child, while the non addict child was neglected.  Just because you have one son that's "set" and another one you don't know (not Hakeem's fault), doesn't mean you should shower you attention on the one child that you perceive as weak.

 

However, the good part is that Cookie's influence was what made Jamal finally grow a pair and tell his father to fuck off.  He should have done that before, when Cookie arranged that press conference for him to come out.

The irony for Cookie will be that both of her other sons need her far more than Jamal does.

[LydiaMoon1]

Did anyone else notice that Empire is now Fox presents: Empire.  Judging by the fact that 3 different movie trailer commercials were shown during an hour with "limited commercial interruptions", I'd say that Fox has finally stumbled onto a real revenue generator.

 

Another entertaining episode, but too much Lucious.  LL is a compelling character, but he's not a character I can sympathize with or a character they can center the show around.  Most of his story has already been told. If he drops dead from ALS tomorrow, all of the drama his character has set up can still go on. Meanwhile,  Cookie's story has yet to be revealed and, even when she's acting out, I feel for her in a way that I don't with Lucious. For me the show works much better when they allow Taraji to carry the show. 

 

Best scene of the night:

The family dinner and Cookie's prayer.  That was hilarious, although it was stupid to have Cookie reveal that she knew Annika spied on her.  Why would Cookie be dumb enough to reveal that when she'd just managed to throw Lucious off her tracks?  Doesn't that seem suspicious?  Wouldn't everybody question how she had gotten that information?

 

Other things I liked:

Puma

Hakeem's mommy issues

Andre and Rhonda's open marriage (I didn't see that coming)

Cookie and Agent Carter (If Empire doesn't work out, a crime show with these two would be hella entertaining)

Jamal (finally) standing up to Lucifer

 

Worst scene of the night:

Jamal's performance.  Classic example of overreach.  It would have been fine if all they wanted to do was to show Cookie playing head games with Lucious, However, since it was supposed to show that Jamal is "Lucious on steroids" talent-wise, it failed.  That wasn't the song, and that wasn't the performance.

 

Other things I disliked:

Too much misogyny. I'm already tired of hearing the men toss around bitch and hoe as general terms for women.

Tianna.  I hope they make her a great schemer, because her singing and her performances have been forgettable.

Edited January 22, 2015 by LydiaMoon1

[sarkygal]

 

That's the problem I have with Cookie as a parent.  When "Intervention" was on, I always noticed that the parent gave all their love, time,energy and money to the addict child, while the non addict child was neglected.  Just because you have one son that's "set" and another one you don't know (not Hakeem's fault), doesn't mean you should shower you attention on the one child that you perceive as weak.

It seems to be fairly typical of parents of a certain generation. I believe the quote is 'A child needs your love most when he deserves it least' and I think it may be out of overcompensating for the child you believed you have 'failed' in some sense as a parent. 

[pembroke]

Why did Lucious invite Cookie to dinner?

 

He had to know that it would be unfavorable to Anika. Also, he told Anika to let Cookie sit at the head of the table. 

 

 

[Mrs OldManBalls]

OMG Andre!  He's such a man slut and his wife knows it.  Rhonda acting as the woman he fucked was bizarre!

 

I was confused for a minute before I realized she was into it and this is a thing they do. 

 

I love this soapy mess.  Lucius just beat the hell out of the manager with no fear of repercussions.  I loved that the manager came up with a huge donut in his mouth.

 

I wonder how many execs wish they could get away with that??? 

 

Which can't be said for Hakeem and Naomi Campbell.  That was skeevy. 

 

Knowing that in real life she has had a Russian Oligarch thing going on, seeing her with a little spoiled boy who fancies himself a man? * Cookie eye-roll* 

 

Jesus, did I want to punch Lucious in the face when he told that little boy men don't cry. You cry those tears and feel those feelings little man! Because if you don't? it all turns into a fuckton of baggage the rest of the people in your life have to deal with. 

[Tiger]

Three episodes in and the only thing that isn't working for me is Hakeem and his stories and love interests.  It's not even that I hate them, it's that I don't care and spend those scenes waiting for another story/character to come back on.  

 

As brilliant as Taraji was during the blessing scene, I actually thought she was better in the euro songwriters scene because it was a quieter moment and Taraji conveyed so much with just her posture.  

[luckyroll3]

I was watching from my little 13 inch TVR in my bedroom last night and couldn't make out what the text messages between Naomi and Hakeem said.  Did anyone catch those?