Talking Dead: Where Chris Hardwick Got His Groove Back

[AngelaHunter]

9 hours ago, Nashville said:

The last four sentences of this article succinctly sum up my feelings - and concerns - on this particular case:

And exactly what I've been saying since all this brouhaha started:

Quote

It’s scary that a man can be convicted and punished without a trial or as much as a thorough hearing.

Not even in small claims court where you may be seeking a few hundred bucks to fix your car someone vandalized will you get a cent without proof that person did it. Sexual assault? Nope, no evidence at all required, no proof requested. We'll just take every word as gospel from anyone who pops up out of the woodwork and points a finger, because... "New Rule" and if you don't go along with it you must be a misogynistic, un-PC monster.

Maybe I can't stand Hardwick, but that doesn't mean he should be banished from the planet because one woman says "He was mean to me for the whole three years I stayed with him."

What's to stop any woman, whose celebrity boyfriend dumped her, cheated on her or even *gasp* "body shamed" her from destroying his life? This is so Orwellian.

[Nashville]

41 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Not even in small claims court where you may be seeking a few hundred bucks to fix your car someone vandalized will you get a cent without proof that person did it. Sexual assault? Nope, no evidence at all required, no proof requested. We'll just take every word as gospel from anyone who pops up out of the woodwork and points a finger, because... "New Rule" and if you don't go along with it you must be a misogynistic, un-PC monster.

Maybe I can't stand Hardwick, but that doesn't mean he should be banished from the planet because one woman says "He was mean to me for the whole three years I stayed with him."

What's to stop any woman, whose celebrity boyfriend dumped her, cheated on her or even *gasp* "body shamed" her from destroying his life? This is so Orwellian.

That automatic assumption of guilt is unfortunately the norm for many - including, also unfortunately, my wife. :P  They say being the victim of such behavior is so traumatic that if the victim gathers up enough courage to come forward and name their assailant, the charge MUST be true; they appear to have some kind of mental blind spot against taking into account the notion a false charge involves zero associated trauma.  Me, I’d assume the stats on false #MeToo charges are pretty much identical to those of false rape charges, which independent analysis has put at 2-10% of reported cases.  This does mean the vast majority of cases are probably well-founded, but it also means a statistically significant portion are not - enough so that automatic assumptions of guilt without investigation are not warranted.

I’d be reasonably certain virtually all the initial reported cases were true, insofar as in #MeToo’s earliest days the initial accusers had no clue what kind of personal blowback they might suffer from their accusations - THOSE are the accusers I would consider as unquestionably brave.  As #MeToo has entered the mainstream and its track record of supportive response has become well-established in the public massmind, however, my natural cynicism leads me to expect a certain portion of the population will seek to exploit #MeToo for their own personal gain - revenge against an ex who spurned them, publicity boost for a dead or flagging career, etc.

Which is one of the reasons I like dogs better than people.

[rab01]

I didn't really want to weigh in on this because I don't know either of these people from Adam but is this story -- other than the very vague claims of stifling her career* post-breakup - really a MeToo story? 

I've met very few couples that have broken up with no bitterness towards each other.  Clearly, their relationship went toxic - either from the beginning because he was selfish and controlling or later because of her infidelities.  But she herself says that her main allegation - bad and unsatisfying consensual sex inside a 3 year relationship - was not assault and was consented to by her.  Since this also doesn't involve any workplace harassment or invading a stranger's personal space, is this really part of the MeToo movement?  If he hadn't discovered her cheating, wouldn't they still be (perhaps unhappily) together?  Yes, he was more successful and 17 years older than her but she was prettier than he was handsome so it's not obvious to me (an outsider) who had the power inside their relationship.

*Also, this is uncharitable but how is cosplay a career? How did Hardwick supposedly destroy it? And isn't she set to have her first professional movie acting credit this year?) 

[Anela]

I don't even know who she is. What bothers me, is the automatic defense of HIM, and saying that #metoo has gone too far. If she lied, then I'm going to be pissed, because women are always punished in some way for coming forward. It took me two months to say something to my sister, and that was only when I begged my mum not to let him back here for another month, for Christmas and New Year's. She knew I was acting odd, when she found me outside that night he first tried to sleep with me, and I ran away), but he'd prepared a story for her, so I was told that I was delusional. When she decided to admit that it did happen, excuses were made, like he lived on a commune for a while, so he thought that was normal. Shit like that. I had to put up with him for about a month after that first time (he's from Canada), and he started a huge argument, three weeks later, because I was avoiding him. Women are to be treated like shit, and not believed - and we aren't supposed to have boundaries. As I mentioned before, I've been punished repeatedly, for just not wanting to be around him. Even after he admitted to it, and called me "sexy" week before he married my sister. He utterly destroyed my life, without raping me, and I was close to suicide. I hate to think what dealing with any of that would have been like, if I had been raped.

Okay, I'm a feminist, and an SJW, so I'm out. My mother was raped by another fiance of hers, but she didn't report it, because at that time, it wouldn't have been seen as a crime. Because they slept together, so it wasn't unusual (you know, except for her recovering from surgery, and his being insecure because my dad was spending the holidays with us). 

This is why *I* prefer animals to people. 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Anela

[Smad]

28 minutes ago, Anela said:

I don't even know who she is. What bothers me, is the automatic defense of HIM, and saying that #metoo has gone too far. If she lied, then I'm going to be pissed, because women are always punished in some way for coming forward.

I'm not defending him because frankly in the end, I don't care. I don't know him. I reserve my care for friends and family. And if I happen to see a person in need...or an animal. The problem I have is how someone, or lets limit it to any MAN, can lose their reputation, job or even freedom (because that will be the next step) without any proof. Simply based on he said-she said. Guilty until proven innocent. Without this woman actually naming him outright. And without her presenting any proof. Hell in her initial blog post, she pretty much threatened him not to get authorities involved because she 'has proof'. What screwed up mental gymnastics is she attempting or simply blackmailing? If she has proof of illegal conduct on his end, she has to hand it over to authorities anyway so they can investigate in order to validate her claims. Hello! There is still the law in place and that one states 'innocent until proven guilty'. He's not been charged with anything, he has not been convicted of anything...yet his career is effectively over even if he is found innocent.

If she is a victim, fine. But I want to see some proof first. Because wrongful accusations also won't help women. If the climate is that any woman can claim this stuff, even outside of Hollywood, by simply making a big social media fuss about it, and ruin any man's life/career...who is going to hire women for jobs? If guilt doesn't need to be proven anymore, as a boss I'd rather avoid all the bad publicity (for allegedly allowing misconduct to happen), the possible lawsuit for wrongful termination of a job (if man is found innocent) and so forth. I wouldn't hire a woman in the current climate. If all it takes now is for a woman to say so, this will not help help women, actual victims or otherwise.

[Anela]

I said I'm done. No quoting me, please. I like the people here, and I'm just done with this. It's hugely personal for me. I will be pissed if she lied, because it makes things more difficult for women who have been assaulted (I've been beaten up, not sexually assaulted), and the number of women who just didn't care, astounded me. But I'm not quiet about it. 

As for this show (topic). I stopped watching a while ago. I don't care if it's gone. If he was falsely accused, I hope that comes out, but I won't get behind people saying that it means that most, or all, rape accusations are false, let alone other allegations.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Anela

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, rab01 said:

I didn't really want to weigh in on this because I don't know either of these people from Adam but is this story -- other than the very vague claims of stifling her career* post-breakup - really a MeToo story? 

I've met very few couples that have broken up with no bitterness towards each other.  Clearly, their relationship went toxic - either from the beginning because he was selfish and controlling or later because of her infidelities.  But she herself says that her main allegation - bad and unsatisfying consensual sex inside a 3 year relationship - was not assault and was consented to by her.  Since this also doesn't involve any workplace harassment or invading a stranger's personal space, is this really part of the MeToo movement?  

No, not really - but Chloe has made her public accusations of sexual (assault? misconduct?) within the context of the social environment created by #MeToo, so I think #MeToo’s effect upon public perception of her charges should be - HAS to be - taken into consideration as a factor.  

To put it another way: do you think Chloe would have made such accusations, in such a manner, if the current post-#MeToo environment didn’t exist?

 

2 hours ago, Anela said:

I don't even know who she is. What bothers me, is the automatic defense of HIM, and saying that #metoo has gone too far.

I can’t speak for anybody else, but my thoughts and comments were far from automatic; I read and reread her essay several times, and thought about what I’d read for a few days before commenting.  One thing is, I didn’t start out with either an automatic assumption of either guilt OR innocence.  I considered what I’d read within my own context of 40-ish years of adult relationship experiences - my own, and others - and several things stood out to me:

1. No relationship ends perfectly well; there will always be some negative associations with the breakup, ranging from depression to outright acrimony.
2. In every breakup there are three versions: Person A’s, Person B’s - and somewhere between those two, the truth.  And while one person’s version may lean more towards the truth than the other’s - sometimes very very strongly so - none of the three are EVER identical.  Everybody colors their story to reflect better of themselves, and some are WAY more adept at coloring outside the lines than others.
3. Regardless of which person is talking, the first version of their story is frequently (not always) the least accurate.  One of two things happen after that first statement, depending upon the personality doing the telling.  An honest person allows memory to correct initial misstatements and/or hyperbole, and thus moves closer to the truth; as a result, their statements trend from stronger unqualified statements to more qualified, softer statements. In contrast, a dishonest person changes their story to plug holes revealed by questions of their original discourse, and thus moves farther away from it; their statements trend more from qualified, softer statements to the stronger and more unilateral.  The dishonest person’s changes tend to be more contradictory and easily detected, though, or qualified by subsequent statements like, “I never said EXACTLY that” - so initial vague and/or qualified statements tend (to me, anyway) to be red flags - or pink, at least.  :)

So now you know my process - which I hope gives you some appreciation of what I mean when I say as I reviewed Chloe’s recount of the relationship I saw things which gave me pause to accepting her version as 100% accurate.  I’m not saying her recount of the relationship is totally inaccurate, mind you - it was definitely dysfunctional, unsatisfactory, unsatisfying and deeply troubled on several levels - but I’m not in any way inclined to take it as a gospel account of a relationship with a sexual predator, which is the way it appeared (to me, anyway) to be initially presented.

 

Quote

This is why *I* prefer animals to people. 

 

Well, we have that in common.  :)

Edited June 20, 2018 by Nashville
Added two words for clarification

[Smad]

1 hour ago, Anela said:

If he was falsely accused, I hope that comes out, but I won't get behind people saying that it means that most, or all, rape accusations are false, let alone other allegations.

 

And who here said that exactly? Now people, even women, asking for PROOF of illegal behavior on the part of a man before he goes through the Salem Witch Trials, means that people say all accusations of all victims are false? I'm sorry but that makes the kind of sense that doesn't. I get it's personal to you and I'm sorry for what happened. But not all men are evil and not all women are good. And I don't see what's good about a man losing his career without even being charged or convicted for/of anything, for what so far amounts to a screwed up, dysfunctional relationship but no evidence except he said-she said as to any illegal (abusive) behavior on the man's end.

This is not me defending him (I really don't care), this me simply wanting FACTS and PROOF in order for me to make up my own mind about the situation. And that's how it should be.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Smad

[luna1122]

I'm a feminist and a SJW and a rape victim too, and I want to always believe the women as well.

I also read and re-read and weighed what she wrote, and my gut reaction is still that it's murky. Even if everything she's said is true, I'm not sure any of it was illegal. Someone can be a douchebag, and we can hate them and find them reprehensible, but does that mean they lose their careers? Of course, we have the right to not support them in any way. But  for someone to lose everything they've worked for over a bad relationship...well, there's sure be a lot of people who'd lose everything, it that becomes the way of things.

I don't believe anyone said most or all rape accusations are false. That's not what I read---if I had, I'd be outraged.

[Anela]

Since I was quoted again, I'm coming back with this. If this happened, then there should be people out there who can verify it:

Because of my leaving him for someone else, he made calls to several companies I received regular work from to get me fired by threatening to never work with them. He succeeded. I was blacklisted. With the assistance of a woman who’d gained my trust and my heart over the past year, he steamrolled my career. The woman actively made it her mission to destroy my friendships. And she did, because by the time they’d realized she was… an unreliable source… the damage had already been done. To be fair, in break-ups like this one, some friends will just naturally gravitate towards the person who wields more power (and the ability to employ them), especially in the business I’m in- despite whatever history exists. Still, there’s so much more to that woman’s story (including 6 other women whose reputations/careers she attempted to sabotage) but I don’t want to digress too far from my point, which is abusive relationships, not friendships. This time in my life was agony.

So, he and a friend made calls, and had her blacklisted, and there are six other women who had the same thing happen to them with this female "friend". Her lawyer apparently wrote a letter, to stop him from badmouthing her in front of audiences, speculating that she was cheating on him. 

She wrote her piece, to encourage other girls and women, to not stay in relationships like that, but the women who are involved in them, most won't listen, which is a shame. 

All it would do to properly come forward was hurt me. And guess what? It will probably hurt me now too, despite the #MeToo movement. We’ve come a long way, but we still have a ways to go.

Anyway, I asked to not be quoted again, because there is almost nothing left to me, as a person, but I'd had a good five days, and I spend time here with people I like, talking about shows that usually distract me from the fact that I'm almost a shell of who I used to be. I regret clicking on this damned thread, and reading a few things, because I usually get a good laugh out of these boards. 

[Anela]

3 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

I'm a feminist and a SJW and a rape victim too, and I want to always believe the women as well.

I also read and re-read and weighed what she wrote, and my gut reaction is still that it's murky. Even if everything she's said is true, I'm not sure any of it was illegal. Someone can be a douchebag, and we can hate them and find them reprehensible, but does that mean they lose their careers? Of course, we have the right to not support them in any way. But  for someone to lose everything they've worked for over a bad relationship...well, there's sure be a lot of people who'd lose everything, it that becomes the way of things.

I don't believe anyone said most or all rape accusations are false. That's not what I read---if I had, I'd be outraged.

"I only believe children" is what I read. And all of the posts, all over the internet, about how #metoo has gone too far. Some of it is murky, some of it should have proof, as I mentioned above. His career has flourished, until now. I don't know who she is, or what she does - people have mocked her over a supposed career. If he had her blacklisted, then he's a shit just for that. I wasn't sure that he should have been fired so fast, if at all, I'm responding to those who assume that she's lying, because he lost his job. 

I re-read it myself. I saw a comment elsewhere, that she needed a career boost, so she decided to write this - only you can see that that isn't the type of thing that someone would write, in order to boost a career. Some believe her, but she's also getting attacked (and the "this has gone too far" just...). I don't think someone should lose a job over a bad relationship, but according to what I previously quoted, she lost work because of it. And she might lose it now, if people decide that she wrongly accused him. I saw the TMZ thing before coming here, because someone linked to it. 

[Nashville]

22 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

But  for someone to lose everything they've worked for over a bad relationship...well, there's sure be a lot of people who'd lose everything, it that becomes the way of things.

Me, I’d probably be begging on the street.  :)  Way back in the Mesozoic era of my college days, I recall a veritable consecutive string of relationship partners so toxic as to make Chernobyl look like a summer resort - so I wouldn’t be surprised if, after getting out of THAT loop, I carried around enough contact crazy for a while to make some subsequent partners regard me in the same light.

 

22 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

I don't believe anyone said most or all rape accusations are false. That's not what I read---if I had, I'd be outraged.

Actually, I believe the reverse was stated at least once.

[SnarkyTart]

22 hours ago, Nashville said:

This is one of my primary sticking points as well.  By definition, sexual assault is forcing sexual activity upon a person contrary to their will.  If Chloe never voiced such contrariness of will - i.e., she never told Chris “no” - then how could subsequent sexual activity be construed as “assault”?

She says that when she told him she didn't feel like it, he reminded her that the reason he left his previous GF was because she didn't want to have sex.   So, says Chloe, she did it (so he wouldn't leave her).  That's what's being called sexual assault these days, I guess.

If all of it's true, he committed no crimes.  If all of it's true, he's a controlling narcissistic asshole, and the world is full of people just like him in positions of power, money, and influence.  Since the beginning of time.  And there's no shortage of seemingly young, attractive, intelligent women who willingly become the other half of such a couple. If I demanded that all people in the entertainment industry be kind, sensitive, decent, emotionally healthy individuals,  I'm nearly certain there'd be very few I could listen to or watch.

Some of the women I most respect and admire in real life are women who came out of relationships like Chloe is describing.  They (the women) asked themselves, "How could I be attracted to a man like him?  What does it say about me that I would stay with a man like him?" Then, they (the women) went about the long, hard, painful work of answering those questions, a process that can take years.  First, they had to realize that it's not about him, who he is, what he did.  It's about you, and why you were there, and doing whatever it takes to never be there again.  What they didn't do, as Chloe apparently acknowledges she did, was go immediately into another relationship and, even years later, blame the controlling narcisstic asshole for her choice to be in that relationship and stay with him until he told her to leave.

[piequinn35]

1 hour ago, Anela said:

Since I was quoted again, I'm coming back with this. If this happened, then there should be people out there who can verify it:

So, he and a friend made calls, and had her blacklisted, and there are six other women who had the same thing happen to them with this female "friend". Her lawyer apparently wrote a letter, to stop him from badmouthing her in front of audiences, speculating that she was cheating on him. 

She wrote her piece, to encourage other girls and women, to not stay in relationships like that, but the women who are involved in them, most won't listen, which is a shame. 

 

I think the blacklisting was verified, who does that thing? 

Sorry but I never liked CH.

[Smad]

1 hour ago, Anela said:

Since I was quoted again, I'm coming back with this. If this happened, then there should be people out there who can verify it:

Quote

Because of my leaving him for someone else, he made calls to several companies I received regular work from to get me fired by threatening to never work with them. He succeeded. I was blacklisted. With the assistance of a woman who’d gained my trust and my heart over the past year, he steamrolled my career. The woman actively made it her mission to destroy my friendships. And she did, because by the time they’d realized she was… an unreliable source… the damage had already been done. To be fair, in break-ups like this one, some friends will just naturally gravitate towards the person who wields more power (and the ability to employ them), especially in the business I’m in- despite whatever history exists. Still, there’s so much more to that woman’s story (including 6 other women whose reputations/careers she attempted to sabotage) but I don’t want to digress too far from my point, which is abusive relationships, not friendships. This time in my life was agony.

So, he and a friend made calls, and had her blacklisted, and there are six other women who had the same thing happen to them with this female "friend". Her lawyer apparently wrote a letter, to stop him from badmouthing her in front of audiences, speculating that she was cheating on him. 

She wrote her piece, to encourage other girls and women, to not stay in relationships like that, but the women who are involved in them, most won't listen, which is a shame.

But from what I understand, Hardwick was a douché about her leaving him. Basically, he was an ass after she left him. According to her, he used business as a way to vent. That's not on the up and up and it's a dick move but it's a business move. And something that if she can prove it, she should take to court. But that's not really what the #metoo movement is about and not what people are focused on in regards to her and Hardwick. It's all about how the relationship was and not what came after. Since the conduct of him during that relationship seems to be the basis for why he got fired/companies are distancing themselves. And that conduct so far is only based on he said-she said without any proof. If anything, according to the woman herself, he informed her right at the beginning what he expected of her...and she chose to be together with him and stay with him. And while it's not exactly considerate of one's partner to still want sex when the other isn't in the mood, the partner can exercise the right to say no. When that doesn't happen and the partner does it anyway (fear of losing said partner or whatever the reason), then consent was given.

So really, I still see nothing in terms of proof as to the reasons why his career is being destroyed because it doesn't seem to have anything to do with his behavior after the break up (aka the black listing if it's true).

[SnarkyTart]

So, more has surfaced regarding all of this.  After reading the 2014 text message Chris sent to Chloe when he broke up with her (including her replies trying to talk him out of it), and watching the youtube video she uploaded the day after the surgery she referenced in her allegations, I don't find her to be credible.   

Link to text messages: http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tmz_documents/0619_Hardwick Texts.pdf

Post-surgery video:

Edited June 21, 2018 by SnarkyTart

[Nashville]

18 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

I think the blacklisting was verified, who does that thing? 

Curiosity got the better of me, so I started googling around; other than simple restatement of Chloe’s allegations on multiple websites in association with their coverage of the issue, I couldn’t find any focused discussion of the blacklist question, much less verification.

Still curious, I looked to another source - iMDB - to see what it had on record.  It details Chloe’s credits for acting (A), producing (P), writing (W) and appearances-as-self (S) as follows:

• 2004: 1 (A)
• 2006: 1 (A)
• 2009: 2 (A)
• 2010: 1 (A)
• 2011: 1 (A)                           Note: entered relationship with Hardwick late 2011
• 2012: 8 (3A, 5S)
• 2013: 7 (5A, 2S)
• 2014: 13 (4A, 1P, 1W, 7S)  Note: exited relationship with Hardwick July 2014
• 2015: 9 (5A, 4S)                Note: Hardwick engaged to Lydia Hearst Sept. 2015
• 2016: 3 (S)                         Note: Hardwick married Lydia Hearst Aug. 2016
• 2017: 2 (1A, 1S)
• 2018 (to date): 4 (3A, 1P)

I have to caveat this list by saying iMDB documents solely TV/movie appearances; work in other areas (podcasts, YouTube, and other social media outlets) is not included, and I could find no hard numbers on such.

That being said - it certainly looks like:

1. Chloe’s career definitely blossomed during the time of her relationship with CH.
2. After their breakup, Chloe’s career continued at the same level for roughly a year and a half.
3. By a couple of years after the breakup Chloe’s work had dropped off significantly from her dating-Hardwick days, but was still maintaining at approximately 3x her pre-Hardwick levels.

So - is this evidence of blacklisting?  Good question.  In her Medium essay Chloe states:

Quote

Because of my leaving him for someone else, he made calls to several companies I received regular work from to get me fired by threatening to never work with them. He succeeded. I was blacklisted. With the assistance of a woman who’d gained my trust and my heart over the past year, he steamrolled my career.

Chloe makes no reference to the timeframe of the alleged blacklisting, but IMHO it would be reasonable to assume such punitive behavior would be most likely immediately following the breakup, when emotions and hurt feelings are running highest.  Judging purely from her iMDB list, though, this does not initially appear to be the case; Chloe’s work level didn’t fall off until 2016, at which point in time CH was already engaged to - and would eventually marry - someone else.  On the surface, at least, it would appear CH had already moved on.  

[ Again I feel I must stress: this is looking solely at what iMDB has logged.  Chloe may have had a host of other activities in progress on other platforms (podcasts, YouTube, Cons, etc.) which are not reflected, and for which I couldn’t find verifiable numbers. ]

 

Chloe also makes the statement:

Quote

He actually got engaged very shortly after I left him

1. Different people may have varying opinions as to what constitutes “a short time”, but the facts are this: Chloe and Chris broke up in July 2014, and Chris and Lydia got engaged in Sept. 2015 - more than a year later.
2. Subsequent Twitter releases pretty emphatically indicate Hardwick ended the relationship with Dykstra, not the other way around.

Now under normal circumstances I’m not going to fault ANYBODY for a certain degree of revisionist history regarding past relationships, especially when it comes to the question of who broke up with who.  :)    The context of this essay and its accusations, however, are anything but “normal circumstances” - and if Chloe is being revisionist with this, I can’t help but wonder what other statements of hers might be subject to the same treatment.  

Again, not an indictment - but it does weaken any inclination I might have to accept her statements as truth without question.  

And all of this is just MHO - YMMV

 

Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m kinda astonished at how much of my time I let get eaten up by this friggin’ post....  :)

[Morrigan2575]

I only know Chloe Dykstra's name because she's dating Sam Witwer. Going by the TMZ Text I'm guessing he's the Sam that she cheated with.  

I have to agree with that NYT article, I can't help but feel that these types of stories are going to damage the #metoo movement. 

[lulee]

Setting aside the content of Dykstra’s story, an additional effect it had was to provide an opening for employees to talk (off the record) about Hardwick as a bad boss, which may compound the effect on his career. 

https://www.thewrap.com/chris-hardwicks-hard-times-the-silence-from-those-in-his-orbit-is-deafening/

[luna1122]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/three-of-chris-hardwicks-exes-defend-him-amid-abuse-allegations/ar-AAzfbcP

Three of his exes are taking up for him. From Jacinda Barrett (She was my fave London Real World-er): “This past week I have watched someone I once loved and shared four years of my life with be publicly accused of misconduct and abuse, then swiftly fired and shunned,” she wrote, tagging Hardwick in the post. “The accuser’s story bears no resemblance to the one I shared with him all those years ago, but what is of supreme importance here is that every woman and every man deserves a voice. Accuser and Accused. Everyone deserves to be heard."

[Smad]

Hell Jamie Alexander (aka Lady Sif from the MCU) came out in defense of Hardwick and she is getting torn apart by SJW and #metoo. This is really getting stupid.

[sempervivum]

19 hours ago, Smad said:

Hell Jamie Alexander (aka Lady Sif from the MCU) came out in defense of Hardwick and she is getting torn apart by SJW and #metoo. This is really getting stupid.

I hope he lies low until this (hopefully) blows over, even if it takes a year. This is so unfair to him, IMO. 

The #metoo thing is going to eat itself.

[Morrigan2575]

21 hours ago, Smad said:

Hell Jamie Alexander (aka Lady Sif from the MCU) came out in defense of Hardwick and she is getting torn apart by SJW and #metoo. This is really getting stupid.

I read some of those tweets and it is fucking insane and hypocritical. These people are all over the women who have defended Hardwick (3 ex-girlfriends, curren wife, mother-in-law and 10 year friend) calling them rape apologiests, liars, on the take (one was accused of getting a pay off to defend him). Yet, at the same time those same Chloe defenders are holding up anonymous employees (who don't claim to know anything or have seen this behavior, merely claim they could see him doing it because he's a dick (paraphrased)) as proof that Hardwick is a sexual/emotional/mental abuser.  Because duh, someone, somewhere said it was possible.

1 hour ago, sempervivum said:

I hope he lies low until this (hopefully) blows over, even if it takes a year. This is so unfair to him, IMO. 

The #metoo thing is going to eat itself.

I agree that he needs to stay low but, I fear the damage is already done. He may get cleared by AMC but, his reputation and business may never recover. 

[nodorothyparker]

A fair amount of leeway has been allowed in discussing the accusations against Chris Hardwick and the resulting fallout to his career and this show.  Posts going forward should mostly be focused on that.  If you want to discuss the larger subject of sexual harassment, sexualized bad behavior in entertainment, or potential reactions or consequences to that, there is a thread for that here.  Posts that have nothing to do with Hardwick or this specific case may be removed.   

[Fellaway]

Yvette Nicole Brown to replace Chris Hardwick in Walking Dead Comic Con Panels

[Persnickety1]

On 6/19/2018 at 10:43 AM, AngelaHunter said:

Was she a minor? In a state of bondage? Tied to the bed? He did such horrible things to her she only stayed with him for three years. I can't stand the little ass-kissing weasel, and yes, I believe he could be an insecure, possessive little asshole, but he was her asshole and she stayed with him for years. No one can walk on you unless you lie down. These are modern times and a woman is no longer the property of a man. You have issues or self-esteem problems or whatever, get help! Go on Dr.Phil! Do something. I guess she has proof of the sexual assaults, which would be the only criminal act here, since saying he "won't let me" do things is not a crime? And if you stay with someone after they sexually assault you, that's condonation as I understand it. She forgave him. She's not just on the trendy bandwagon and making it up for attention and/or revenge, is she? Has the statute of limitations been abolished in the cases of accusations of sexual abuse if it applies to male celebrities (no matter how minor)? Is grabbing someone's crotch 20 years ago now on the same felonious level as first-degree murder?

It's very scary when someone can have their lives destroyed - virtually forever because even if allegations are proven false, no one forgets and most people feel where there's smoke, there's fire - just because someone makes unsubstantiated claims against them. It's like the Salem witch hunts - there's no way to win.

I couldn't possibly agree any more with your entire post.

I loathe Hardwick and don't bother with TTD unless he has a main guest on there (Rick, Michonne, or Carol and that's about it) that I like enough to ignore him.

But this shit?  This shit is ridiculous.  An entire career jettisoned because of an (alleged) bad relationship?  

Funny you mentioned the Salem witch hunts.  That's the exact comparison is used when discussing this situation with Mini Persnickety when this first came out.  

I personally have less than zero fucks to give about what these people (entertainers) do in their private relationships as long as it doesn't involve the abuse children or animals.  

But a grown assed woman whining like this bitch?  Pony up the alleged "evidence" that he tried to/had you blackballed or shut the fuck up and have several seats.  

Despite my despising Hardwick, I'm hoping he's vindicated and sues the holy fuck out of AMC...and wins.  

[Fellaway]

Yvette Nicole Brown to host AMC's "Walking Dead" special and "Talking Dead"

Quote

The network issued a statement on Friday saying “Brown will step in as an interim guest host of ‘The Walking Dead Season 9 Preview Special’ on August 5 and ‘Talking Dead’ when it returns following the premiere of ‘Fear the Walking Dead’ on August 12, as we work to complete our assessment related to Chris Hardwick.”

Edited July 14, 2018 by Fellaway

[sigmaforce86]

Already sent a message to AMC - If Chirs isn't hosting our house isn't watching.  Hope a lot of people do this.  No offense to Yvette, she's a fun guest because she's such a huge fan but Chris is getting the shaft here and as supportive as I am about the "me too" movement this rush to judgement and killing of careers over extraordinarily sketchy accusations needs to stop.  

[OoohMaggie]

On 14/07/2018 at 12:09 PM, sigmaforce86 said:

 

Already sent a message to AMC - If Chirs isn't hosting our house isn't watching.  Hope a lot of people do this.  No offense to Yvette

 

This house won’t be watching either, offence or not, but we won’t be watching  the Yvette Brown show, because that’s what it’ll turn into, awful choice.

They should have had some of the old cast presenting, a different actor each episode would not only have been ice cool, but also a real ratings winner, but as usual no imagination or foresight! 

[WalkerTalker]

47 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

This house won’t be watching either, offence or not, but we won’t be watching  the Yvette Brown show, because that’s what it’ll turn into, awful choice.

They should have had some of the old cast presenting, a different actor each episode would not only have been ice cool, but also a real ratings winner, but as usual no imagination or foresight! 

I support women. I do not support bs revenge against someone over jealousy. After reading all the different stories online it appears that is exactly what  that women did to Chris. That is a damn shame. I do hope Chris sues her for slander. Since he has married into  one of America's elite families, it is doubtful. Old money here still maintains standards.  I didn't even hear about anyone taking over the show. I like YB, I would give her  a chance. But, I would prefer something like Mystery Science Theater 3000 if they are going to change the format. Chris did that sorta, serious, and funny. My husband and I like pretty much the same things. Except, he could never understand why I liked Mystery Science Theater 3000. And I could never understand why he couldn't see the humor in it, lol. Oh well, a few minutes escape from the reality of our current situation, priceless! Later

[nachomama]

Eugene could do a bang up job, Josh McDermitt is very funny, impressed the hell out of me during WalkerStalker con

[Nashville]

On 7/14/2018 at 6:09 AM, sigmaforce86 said:

Already sent a message to AMC - If Chirs isn't hosting our house isn't watching.  Hope a lot of people do this.  No offense to Yvette, she's a fun guest because she's such a huge fan but Chris is getting the shaft here and as supportive as I am about the "me too" movement this rush to judgement and killing of careers over extraordinarily sketchy accusations needs to stop.  

Same here.  

I guess it was inevitable at some point #metoo would become #metoofar, but it looks like we’re already there.

[SimoneS]

Now I have to watch to support Yvette. I don't give a shit about Hardwick or the fan outrage on his behalf.

Go Yvette! You rock! You will be great!

Edited July 18, 2018 by SimoneS

[Morrigan2575]

I saw a tweet that something will be announced at SDCC. I think AMC will announce that Hardwick be back hosting when TWD returns in October (if not earlier).

Two tweets that I can't find now. One from Hardwick's wife saying she had exciting news but, couldn't say anything before SDCC.  The other tweet was from YNB with a picture of her, Hardwick and someone else saying they taped something for SDCC. 

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Now I have to watch to support Yvette. I don't give a shit about Hardwick or the fan outrage on his behalf.

Go Yvette! You rock! You will be great!

Edited July 18, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[Morrigan2575]

Quote

Now I have to watch to support Yvette. I don't give a shit about Hardwick or the fan outrage on his behalf.

Go Yvette! You rock! You will be great!

I don't care about Hardwick, i only watch Talking Dead IF there's someone from TWD that I like on it. Which at this point is only Carol, Daryl and, if someone major gets killed off.

I don't have a problem with YNB filling in but, I'm not going to watch for her anymore than I'm not watching because of her. I also don't have a problem with Hardwick getting suspended pending and investigation. I do have a problem with someone getting fired without an investigation based solely on the accusation and fear of SM outrage.

I just want all the information laid out and I want a final verdict. Because the longer this goes on, the more obvious it becomes (to me) that Hardwick isn't guilty of any crime other than being in a toxic relationship

Edited July 18, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[Morrigan2575]

Spoiler

 

Looks like Lydia Hurst's announcement was that she was joining a Syfy show with DJ Quails. So my quess is totally wrong.

[rab01]

I think AMC acted properly - announcing an investigation and a temporary suspension while they sorted it out.  But, having read the various stories, I can't fit her account into my usual framework of believing the accuser so I admit I'm more curious to hear what comes out of the investigation than I should be for two people I don't really care about.  I'm rooting for YNB to do a good job mainly because TWD and TD used to be fun and it would be nice if they started improving everything related to this stupid franchise.  And, if her claims aren't proven and he comes back to TD, I'll hope he improves too. 

[WalkerTalker]

8 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Looks like Lydia Hurst's announcement was that she was joining a Syfy show with DJ Quails. So my quess is totally wrong.

Wow, that might be Z Nation. That is the one DJ Quails is on. That is a good show. I can't wait for it to return. I really like him too. He is a natural.  I don't know anything about LH, or her acting ability. But, I will be watching.

[ghoulina]

I'm one of the few who actually LIKES Hardwick. But I quit watching TWD when they killed Carl. If I was still watching I'd be bummed to see him taken off of the show. I love YNB, but I don't know that she works as a host. Either way, I won't be watching, so it doesn't matter much to me. But I do think Hardwick is currently being raked over the coals for very very little. 

[AngelaHunter]

On 7/18/2018 at 3:04 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

Because the longer this goes on, the more obvious it becomes (to me) that Hardwick isn't guilty of any crime other than being in a toxic relationship

I really didn't want to comment again, but must say that in today's climate, being a "bad boyfriend" and/or a complete jerk IS a crime which can destroy someone's career and livelihood.

[CrazyDog]

I really love YNB, I just wish she was getting this chance under different circumstances. 

[Anela]

21 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

I really didn't want to comment again, but must say that in today's climate, being a "bad boyfriend" and/or a complete jerk IS a crime which can destroy someone's career and livelihood.

A black man was fired from his job at Home Depot, because he didn't accept abuse from an angry customer - racist, toxic abuse. That is today's climate, and always has been. He lost his livelihood due to a racist customer. Women have lost jobs for years, when not accepting sexual harassment and abuse. Why are they the problem now?

I don't see how taking a troubled young woman, and reminding her that his last relationship failed because of a lack of sex, and then knowingly jumping on her when she obviously doesn't want it, is only seen as toxic. "Why didn't she leave?" seems to be the question. Why not, "Why did he do that? Why did he have sex with someone who was only laying there, because he'd manipulated her into doing so?" Obviously feeling no pleasure, even crying, and he joked and called it "the starfish"?

I didn't want to comment again either. I haven't read anything since before my last comment here.

Edited July 21, 2018 by Anela

[Anela]

On 7/18/2018 at 1:22 PM, SimoneS said:

Now I have to watch to support Yvette. I don't give a shit about Hardwick or the fan outrage on his behalf.

Go Yvette! You rock! You will be great!

 

Same. I might not watch the main show anymore (TWD), but I love Yvette. I watched this show once, for the first time in months, but I don't remember which episode, or why. Maybe it was after the finale? I'd stopped watching it, before I stopped watching the show itself.

Edited July 21, 2018 by Anela

[SimoneS]

Great buzz about Yvette from SCDCC! I am glad that she did so well. I will be watching TD to support her. I hope karma bites anyone wishing her ill in the ass.

@Anela, great comments! Defending men who behave like Chloe alleged Hardwick did has been the societal norm for far too long. 

Edited July 22, 2018 by SimoneS

[MarMar]

I am so glad Chris is back to work at AMC.  At least that is what I have read today.  I did not think the issues Chloe brought up were abuse  or abuse of power and I am glad AMC agrees.  A lot of people stood up for Chris during this situation and I hope he heard it all and understands how many people thought he had gotten a raw deal. 

[SimoneS]

Oh look, all the claims that Hardwick's career would be destroyed by Chloe's allegations turned out to be untrue and pure hysteria. What a shock! RME.

Since turnabout is fair play, I will respond like the people who intended to boycott Yvette Nicole Brown and won't be watching TD with Hardwick. 

Edited July 25, 2018 by SimoneS

[AngelaHunter]

On 7/22/2018 at 8:40 AM, SimoneS said:

 Defending men who behave like Chloe alleged Hardwick did has been the societal norm for far too long. 

Who is defending him? First of all, NO ONE knows what goes on behind closed doors. I certainly don't. I can't stand the sight of Hardwick's face, but is being a rotten boyfriend or a little creep now something that should cause someone to lose his livelihood? A grown woman who stays with rotten boyfriend/littel creep for three years has made her choice for whatever her personal reasons may be and needs to live with that, learn from it and move on.

[Morrigan2575]

20 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Who is defending him? First of all, NO ONE knows what goes on behind closed doors. I certainly don't. I can't stand the sight of Hardwick's face, but is being a rotten boyfriend or a little creep now something that should cause someone to lose his livelihood? A grown woman who stays with rotten boyfriend/littel creep for three years has made her choice for whatever her personal reasons may be and needs to live with that, learn from it and move on.

Assuming any of that is actually true and not just her version of the truth.

It's the right move, beyond obvious there was nothing there. Of course in this world he'll still be condemned and excuses made about how Hollywood covered for another abuser.

[Nashville]

8 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Oh look, all the claims that Hardwick's career would be destroyed by Chloe's allegations turned out to be untrue and pure hysteria. What a shock! RME.

CH got this one job back; that’s a far cry from saying his career and reputation has been restored - so maybe you can take some solace in that.

Sorry, but I cannot accept the notion that accusation dictates an automatic assumption of guilt, simply because it’s a woman accusing a man.  The idea intellectually offends me, on multiple levels:

• There is zero logical support for such an assumption, unless one accepts the postulate ALL men actively strive to assault and/or oppress ALL women ALL the time - and I, for one, do not accept that postulate.
• The concept of fairness should not be gender-biased, in favor of any gender - and that includes its application in the extended concept of innocent until proven guilty.
• If a woman makes an assault/abuse allegation against a man and support is found for her allegations, then I have no problems with him being personally and professionally raked over the coals in every way imaginable - in my mind, such treatment would be just. To suggest, though, that a man should be punished solely on the basis of accusation - with zero investigation and/or validation of the allegations - simply because other men have assaulted/abused other women in the past...?  That’s revenge, not justice, and it’s the height of disingenuousness to pretend it’s anything but.

 

8 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Since turnabout is fair play, I will respond like the people who intended to boycott Yvette Nicole Brown and won't be watching TD with Hardwick. 

Go for it; some people, when they get an extra hour every week of their life returned to them, can do wonders with it.  :)

[Nashville]

One thing to keep in mind, though: AMC spent two months (and god know how much money) on an investigation, interviewing “numerous individuals” in the process - which, considering the nature of the charges, probably means every woman Hardwick had ANY contact with - and at the end of it, CH was reinstated.  

Given the current #metoo environment, think AMC would have taken a chance on reinstating Hardwick if there had been even so much as a whisper of support for Dykstra’s allegations?

Edited July 26, 2018 by Nashville
Typo, expansion