"The View": Week of 12/15/14

[Richard]

I've posted articles recapping today's episode all over my Facebook and sent a message to ABC. Today's episode was a prime example of why Whoopi does not deserve a paid daily platform to express such bullcrap.

[JBC344]

but, but, but ..... RosieO explicitly said she had a black child!  What the hell?  Has my hearing gone awry?

I may be mistaken but I believe Parker is actually bi-racial.  I swear Rosie has spoken about it during his early years back when she had her talk show.

[CathinAZ]

I was surprised at her comment and thought perhaps one of Rosie's adopted kids is biracial - white and Latino - probably Blake. She said bi- racial but did she mean "black" ? Not sure she's ever discussed if any of the 3 adopted kids are or are not 100% Caucasian.

P.s. Would have loved to have joy or Meredith sitting at the table and chiming in on the whole "racist" discussion.

[Stacee]

Rosie is white with kids, one of whom is Black. Rosie is in a position to see first hand how her child is treated differently than she is, differently than her other kids. To me, racism means treating a person differently due to pre-conceived notions about people of the same race.

 

 

Excellent point.

 

In my old neighborhood, I got to know a lady that lived several houses down from us. She was White/Asian. Her husband was Black/White/Native American. They had three sons: oldest had blonde hair, blue eyes, middle had curly brown hair with a tan skin tone and... I can't really remember what the baby looked like.

Anyway, she told me that her middle son got different treatment from people and said some people almost looked and treated him with disgust.

This lady did not always live in the states and would tell me other stories seeing and dealing with racism.

If I ever get the chance to see her again, I'm going to make sure to inform her she did not know what she was talking about it and I'll tell her she needs to watch "The Whoopi's View" to get a real education on what racism is.

[shok]

The story about Michele Obama in Target makes absolutely no sense if it was supposedly while she was First Lady. She would be surrounded by Secret Service agents, press people and at least one assistant. The area of the store she planned to visit would also be cleared out except for people chosen to be there to provide a crowd for a photo-op. I worked on Capitol Hill and with politicians way too long to buy that story.

 

Michele has told the story before of how stifling the White House is and how it was such a treat to dress down and wear sunglasses and go to Target once in awhile as a regular person. She only had one or two discreet secret service guys keeping an eye on her, no assistant and no press. I don't think she's been able to do it anymore since the story came out.

 

He wasn't harmed by the police, but it was news because he was the hugely prestigious Henry Louis Gates, Jr., a Harvard professor and host of several PBS series.  He had just returned from a trip overseas and couldn't get into his home.  He and his driver tried to break in, a neighbor reported a burglary in progress to 911, and it opened a huge brouhaha about whether the police treated him differently or made assumptions about him because he is African-American.

 

He wasn't harmed by the police??? He was arrested on his own fucking door step for disorderly conduct for yelling at the cop who wouldn't provide his name and badge number after Gates had shown his picture i.d. to prove that he was in his own home (the charges were dropped). He had entered the house through the back door after they had trouble getting the front door open and then had gone back around front to try and figure out what was wrong with the front lock. I have no problem with the police being called by a neighbour seeing two guys trying to jimmy a lock but as soon as the cop heard his story and confirmed it, he should have said a pleasant good evening and gone on his way. I think most people, black or white, would have been mightily pissed off being treated that way in their own home. If Whoopi can't see that racism happens in many different ways to many different people, she's an idiot. I mean, not only was she screaming at Rosie, she was insulting Laverne Cox who's suffered both racism and genderism. Unbelievable.

[buffynut]

Holeeee.  During the third segment with Katie Couric, I saw RosieP patting RosieO's arm & then the camera went away from her & when it went back RosieO was GONE!!!  What the hell???  I think she was really upset, because everyone else, except Whoopi, seemed off-balance.  JMHO.

 

I just watched the clip of this on the ABC website and noticed Rosie P motioning.  I wonder if originally the Katie interview was not going to include all the co-hosts (in particular Rosie O), but after the hot topics blowup they put them all out there as some sort of a show of solidarity. 

[ChicagoCita]

I'm not saying that racism didn't exist in the Gates case, but yelling at the cops who have been called to a possible crime scene is not a good idea for anyone.  I myself have been made to lie next to my brother-in-law on the sidewalk in front of my house, at gunpoint, while being frisked by the police. While it was highly traumatic for the next few hours, we both knew that yelling at the police was not going to make the situation any better.  Nor would I describe us as being "harmed."  It was probable cause for the cops, suspicion of murder at that!

[LucyEth]

Wow, Whoopi not playing nice with the other hosts and going at it with Rosie O.  What a surprise.  Can't imagine what took so long.

[UsernameFatigue]

The story about Michele Obama in Target makes absolutely no sense if it was supposedly while she was First Lady. She would be surrounded by Secret Service agents, press people and at least one assistant. The area of the store she planned to visit would also be cleared out except for people chosen to be there to provide a crowd for a photo-op. I worked on Capitol Hill and with politicians way too long to buy that story.

 

MIchelle Obama often goes out in public ' in disguise' - it isn't the first time. She has often talked about it, and how she dislikes the confines of White House life.  You can find pics of her Target jaunt online. However she is wearing a garish white with multi coloured flowers blouse over a lime green t-shirt, a base ball cap, and dark sunglasses.  So no, I doubt anyone mistook her for an Target employee. She was more likely asked for help becuase she is six feet tall. I doubt it had anything to do with 'racism'. Geesh.

[CMH1981]

 

You can find pics of her Target jaunt online. However she is wearing a garish white with multi coloured flowers blouse over a lime green t-shirt, a base ball cap, and dark sunglasses.

 

That pic is from 2011.  You are right though that she does go out in disguise to go shopping quite often, which I don't blame her b/c sometimes you just want to do some browsing and have some time to yourself, and really sometimes you need to purchase things that you don't want others to know about...personal items.

[maryis1]

Problem is, you have two alpha dogs on this panel. While Rosie P and Nicolle are working on where they fit in, both Whoopi and Rosie have both sat at the table and both of them have sat in the alpha dog position. When they brought Rosie O back, they gave her the 'top dog' seat that belonged to Barbara.

 

So you have Rosie O and Whoopi facing each other and Whoopi being Whoopi watches Rosie O's face for cues and often begins or ends Rosie's comments.

 

Both of them are top dog people and this format just doesn't work. I'm afraid that moving them around the table would just be like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

Rosie O resembles my Irish aunts so much. Smile with the mouth but can't hide the simmering rage behind the eyes. I always thought that the song Irish Eyes Are Smiling was popular because they don't smile all that much. She fights like a pitbull and is in it to draw blood if necessary. Whoopi is just as strongly opinionated and fancies herself the doyen of the table. It's just not working.

[Superpole2000]

Problem is, you have two alpha dogs on this panel.

I am sure that doesn't help, but the bigger problem is that Whoopi is an unsettling combination of opinionated, stubborn, and incapable of seeing validity in anyone else's viewpoint.

 

Come on Whoopi. Black people are not the only people who have ever felt or observed the effects of racism. The word is not exclusive to any one race either, as many eloquent people have already explained in this thread.

[CousinAmy]

When Rosie O had her own show, she spoke about her children a lot, although she never showed pictures of them. I'm pretty sure she said they were all bi-racial. In fact, she made a big point of it.  (Not referring to Mia, who only lived with her for a short time. I thought that the home situation just didn't work out, not that Rosie and Kelly were turned down for being gay.)

 

And I don't think Rosie's experience being gay is the same as a black man or woman's, since yes, she can "pass" while Whoopi cannot. My Dad had to change his name back in the 1950s because it sounded "too Jewish."  (He was an accountant in the steel industry and yes, the President of the company was also Jewish.) A black man in the same position wouldn't even have a chance at that job, at that time.

[salvame]

Wow - they certainly finished out the year with a bang!  

I thought the whole show was on the verge of derailing today.

Regarding the Whoopi/Rosie O conflagration, the point Rosie was trying to make was that she did, indeed know about racism, having raised a black child and that she knew firsthand about the emotions it invoked because she is a lesbian, and has been referred to as a dyke.  I'm quite sure the child she was referring to is Ellis, her Godson, and who has all but lived with Rosie since he was born.  I believe Ellis' mother is employed by Rosie in some manner.  I remember in one of the original forms of her blog, she frequently posted photos and videos of him.  Maybe someone with better memory/more time can find something to substantiate this.

RO was originally out on the set when Katie was introduced, but I truly believe that she left the stage when they showed the clip because she experienced some form of abuse as a child.  She has eluded to it in her books, blog, previous shows, etc., but never speaks of it.  If I recall correctly, she got very emotional during Hot Topics a few weeks back, perhaps when talking about the Cosby case and people with power using it to abuse those with none.  Does that ring any bells for anyone?   It would not surprise me if, especially after the Hot Topics set-to, she did not trust her emotions to sit through the difficult Steven Collins segment, but YMMV.  

As time goes on, I'm surprised that of the 4 panelists, the one I dislike the most is Whoopi.  I thought it would be Nicolle that I wouldn't like, and was annoyed by RP, who never seemed able to string a sentence together cohesively, but they have proved to have far more class and grace than WG.  (But then again, so does my 3 yr old granddaughter)

And now, the argument is all over the media. I can't believe that The View sans Barbara, Elizabeth, Sharie, etc, is worse than it was with them, but it seems as if TPTB have set themselves up for failure.  Sometimes, it is so fast-paced as they try to pack way too much into a show, I get motion sickness.

[Cosmocrush]

Problem is, you have two alpha dogs on this panel. While Rosie P and Nicolle are working on where they fit in, both Whoopi and Rosie have both sat at the table and both of them have sat in the alpha dog position. When they brought Rosie O back, they gave her the 'top dog' seat that belonged to Barbara.

I'm not sure what this means. Whoopi is the moderator, which could be called the t'op dog' seat and she sure thinks it means this is her show.   Babs on the other hand always was The Top Dog as she reminded us all the time: this was/is her show, her idea, blah blah blah.  No one took that spot. 

 

I disagree with the idea that strong alpha women cannot be respectful to one another - especially at work - because I see it happen all the time.  A good public example would be the women in the US Senate basically solving  the stalemate shutdown in Washington last year.  What's more alpha dog than a US senator and these women were able to get it done - crossing party lines, and even lines in their parties.   

 

Whoopi likes to remind us how old she is and what a  professional she is (in between fart jokes) so it seems to me she should be able to get along with the other co-hosts for a few hours a week without shouting them down.    Her disdain for the viewers on the other hand is inexplicable to me.  That's really just stupid for someone making big bucks  in the entertainment business. 

Edited December 19, 2014 by Cosmocrush

[lovett1979]

Whoopi did something today that I found annoying and indicative of what makes her a horrible host for this show and I had to share it.

 

Rosie O was talking about the problems with North Korea and started to say "Kim Jong-Un is..." but Rosie P thought it sounded like "Kim Jong-unis" or something and called it out as sounding silly or wrong (slightly annoying and derailing, but I know I do it when friends say something that sounds funny, so I'll let it go). Then Whoopi jumped in and said "Kim Jong-Univision" which maybe would have made sense if they were talking about the leader of a Spanish-speaking nation but was not funny, clever, appropriate, or necessary in this context so it only served to derail the conversation, bring the focus back to her, and make a "joke" because she's the professional comedian and God forbid anyone else gets a laugh.

 

She tends to end a lot of her rants with an unfunny joke or voice which serves to make (at least some of) the audience laugh/clap so she can feel vindicated about whatever ridiculousness she just said.

 

I was so frustrated by the race discussion today because they're all really on the same side (racism is bad, m'kay). They were all making true statements but never followed through to really make a point, or they'd make a point that had no connection to what they (or someone else) had just said. I found Whoopi's anger during the discussion completely out of place and counterproductive. Why is she so against Rosie O or Rosie P feeling something is racist when she doesn't agree. What harm could that possibly cause?

 

A word that I think needs to be brought more into these conversations is "racial." Maybe it's not "racist" (full of hate and intolerance) to assume that the black man standing outside the restaurant is the valet or the black woman in Target works there but the same thought process that says "this black man must be the valet" is the same one that says "this black kid in a hoodie is in the wrong neighborhood, he must be up to no good" and that most certainly is "racial."

[maryis1]

Yes, I do agree that two or more alpha women types can get along and do great things and inspire the support people around them. Maybe I should have gone with what I originally thought - wanted to use the phrase "junkyard dogs" but thought better of it. 

If Rosie O were to head up the table and Whoopi left, there would probably be a lot of people saying the same thing about RO that are being said now about Whoopi. Rosie's stridency doesn't leave much room for other opinions.

The one thing about today's program that I liked is that no one rehashed Laverne Cox's transgender status. I can only imagine Barbara Walters having to school us to the fact that Laverne was once a man and then peppering her with questions so we plebians understood. Gone are those days and I'm very happy about that.

[RogerFromOhio]

I watched today's show a second time and noticed a lot more things.... The biggest thing is when Whoopi was reading the teleprompter it said something like.... Should the Obamas have to deal with this type of racism...... Now... if she truly believes.... TRULY believes that those types of things are NOT racism..... why didn't she demand that the teleprompter be changed??

 

Her thoughts on racism is quite bizarre to me... in all the different discussions that I have had... I have been told that I should keep my opinions to myself because Im not black before (I didn't listen) but I have never heard someone say the only type of racism is using the N word or making a slur directly to someone. Sure that is racism... but there are many many other subtle ways for ignorant people to react negatively toward someone based on the color of their skin.

After thinking about it a while, I dont think she is faking her opinion.... or is just being outrageous because she doesn't want "some white woman telling her what racism is".... remember years ago she thought Ted Danson going to a party in black face was not only fine but funny..... she didn't see black face as being racist.

 

One last thing... if anyone is still reading.... but at first I thought Rosie was pissed and was not part of the next segment... but as others have said also... I think she was gone because of the content of the segment..... I'm gonna watch 20/20.... but it seemed that Katie Couric was defending the admitted child molester Stephen Collins.... I hope she doesn't.... but if she does... shame on her.

[salvame]

For what it's worth, RO was on Letterman tonight and did touch on the differences of the View panel a bit, but not unkindly, and she thought Letterman would make a great permanent 5th.  They also discussed her heart attack, and she mentioned that when some of the more provocative conversations come up, she can feel it in her arteries, which triggers her to back off, and that after a particularly stressful show her cardiologist will call her and ask her if she couldn't be doing something less stress-inducing.  I feel this explains her being better at stepping back from a lot of the conflict this time around.  It has been suggested in the past that she has been working on calming techniques, and I'm inclined to believe that.

[UsernameFatigue]

Was Michelle Obama wearing a red shirt when she was mistaken for the help at Target?  I am a white woman, but many times people ask me where something is when I am at stores.  I just figured, since I am a nurse, I just look helpful.  LOL  I know personally, I make sure someone is really an employee before I ask them something at a store.  Sometimes it's hard to tell.  I have asked other customers thinking they worked there.  That is not saying that what the Obama's experienced was not racism.

 

MIchelle Obama was wearing a flowery top over a lime green t-shirt, baseball ball cap and sunglasses. She said a lady asked for help to get something off of a shelf. It seems obvious to me that Michelle was asked because she is six feet tall and could reach whatever the person wanted. It happens to my 6 ft 2 inch tall husband often when we are shopping.

[RedheadZombie]

I am floored by Whooping thinking that assuming a Black or Latino person is "the help" is NOT racist. But then, I'm white, so I guess I can't have an opinion on the subject.

 

My mom has watched this show since its inception, and rarely complains about it or the co-hosts.  She actually said to me, "Can you believe Whoopi actually said, 'was that racism, or did they just believe Hispanics can't afford to be here?'".  I followed that by mocking Whoopi.  Me:  "We don't know...".  My mom:  "We weren't there".  If someone like my mom, who would watch this show regardless, is turning on Whoopi, they've got a problem.

 

After thinking about it a while, I dont think she is faking her opinion.... or is just being outrageous because she doesn't want "some white woman telling her what racism is".... remember years ago she thought Ted Danson going to a party in black face was not only fine but funny..... she didn't see black face as being racist.

 

Whoopi wrote that skit.  Ted Danson should have known better, but Whoopi put him in black face, and had him use the "N" word many times.  He took the brunt of the fallout.

 

I've made many posts on this episode, but there's something I haven't mentioned, and no one else has yet, either.  After that argument, Whoopi was almost giddy.  She almost thrives on these fights and gets off on "winning".  She will always "win" because a normal person interprets these situations as upsetting and anxiety provoking.  For Whoopi, it's an adrenaline rush, and she seems to relish it.

 

 

One last thing... if anyone is still reading.... but at first I thought Rosie was pissed and was not part of the next segment... but as others have said also... I think she was gone because of the content of the segment..... I'm gonna watch 20/20.... but it seemed that Katie Couric was defending the admitted child molester Stephen Collins.... I hope she doesn't.... but if she does... shame on her.

 

I was extremely disappointed in Katie.  I understand her career may be in freefall and she's trying to be provocative, but it really rubbed me the wrong way.  She called the whole thing "fascinating", like Stephen Collins is any different than the other thousands of child molesters.  Also, fascinating tends to be a word with a positive connotation.  Just poor wording.  She also chose to make a joke in the middle of everything - just so tacky.  I will not be watching 20/20.  The interview is clearly image mending, and Katie is his co-conspirator. 

[TribbleTrouble]

When Rosie O had her own show, she spoke about her children a lot, although she never showed pictures of them. I'm pretty sure she said they were all bi-racial. In fact, she made a big point of it. (Not referring to Mia, who only lived with her for a short time. I thought that the home situation just didn't work out, not that Rosie and Kelly were turned down for being gay.)

I believe both of Rosie's sons are bi-racial and Chelsea is Caucasian. Responding at least in part to general criticism that celebrities have an easier time and are able to adopt faster, Rosie has often spoken in the past about how part of the reason she and others were seemingly able to adopt faster is because they were open to children of any race or ethnicity. Of course, in typical Rosie fashion she also fully acknowledged that having money opened up many more avenues that people without her means wouldn't be able to afford like the ability to hire multiple lawyers in multiple states and explore a wider variety of organizations etc. I don't know if she's ever publicly stated Blake's specific ethnicity, but she could've been referring to him or, as others have pointed out, her godson who I gather essentially lives with her family. Either way, Whoopi's statement was absurd on its face and belligerent, dismissive and insulting at best.

(I can't recall the details of the fostering situation with Mia, but I do recall that at the time Rosie and Kelli stated that they wanted to adopt but were prevented because of the laws in Florida at the time prohibiting adoption by same-sex couples. That law was finally overturned in court as unconstitutional a few years ago.)

[JoJo NY]

Wow, just wow. Yesterday's show was a stunner.

I seriously fear for Rosie O's physical and mental health. For the sake of her life and family, she needs to leave the show after her 1-year contract expires, if not sooner.

She has serious FU money, so she can walk away and live in comfort. Whoopi is threatened by RO's wealth, intelligence, and re-emergence. She takes every opportunity to mock, cut off, and dismiss RO. To that, I say, cash your check and wave adios, Rosie. The Whoopi Goldberg View won't last for long.

[Bronzedog]

The truth is that a black person doesn't know what it's like to be white anymore than a white person knows what it's like to be black. Whoopie is always making comments about what whites don't experience or feel. Whoopie, you have no clue.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Bronzedog

[Morbs]

I was wearing a Lacoste shirt once at a Costco and a woman asked me if I worked there because I was buying so much.  Rosie Perez and MIchelle Obama's stories are funny because they are true, and hopefully are simple enough to teach Nicolle  and Whoopi a lesson about life.

[Morgalisa]

 

After that argument, Whoopi was almost giddy.  She almost thrives on these fights and gets off on "winning".

Warning:  Conspiracy theory.  Whoopi does seem giddy sometimes.  I have wondered if she is trying to provoke Rosie into a split/screen scenario where Rosie crashes and burns.  If so, I hope  it  backfires on her.  She is starting to get a lot of negative publicity.  I'll take my foil hat off now.

[Stacee]

Me and my sister were in the thrift store shopping. My sister was in one part of the store, I was in another. My sis came up where I was and told me about a lady that came to her, asking if the dressing room was open. My sis was like I don't know, and told her she hadn't got to that part of the store yet. The lady left and less than a minute later  returned and told my sister to open the dressing room door (they are locked). It was then that my sister realized the lady thought she worked there. My sis explained she didn't, the lady apologized. I was HOWLING with laughter - it was hilarious the way my sister told it.

I don't think this was a case of racism; maybe the lady assumed my sister was employed there because she was moving at a fast pace looking through the racks. I don't think my sister did either.

It's possible it was just a simple error without ill intent.

That said, I do trust FLOTUS Michelle. Sometimes you have to be there, in that situation, to get a full sense of a situation. She's a smart woman, with many years experience dealing with preconceived notions based on her race. She's told stories with regard to schooling and dealing with certain attitudes about whether she was qualified to be at a the college she attended. So I believe her.

 

And no, Ms Wallace; electing Obama did not wipe away many years or prejudice, stereotype and decades of racism. In fact, I think his presidency bought latent fears and hatred from people that swept it under the rug , pretending there was no problem because those people "know their place". I do feel as a country we overcame those that seek to divide, but that doesn't mean they go away. In fact, they are given a bigger platform and attention. There is even a network that uses dog whistles in order to further cement the idea that minorities are the problem. And when Obama does address racism, he's treated with ridicule and is accused of dividing the country while at the same time blaming him for not addressing the problem.  We can't have a national conversation on race while at the same time getting mad that we are talking about race. So eff off with that two sided bullshit.

[Qoass]

It's always so interesting to me to watch a show after I see the comments and "news" stories.  I was expecting a real screamfest between RO and WG.  Turns out WG was doing 75% of the yelling and RO was united with RP and Laverne Cox on the other side.  I think quite a bit of the clashing among the panel is for the cameras in order to "make sparks" but it's too bad that Whoopi does not present an opposing viewpoint with facts rather than the assumption that her personal experience is universal.  It's particularly absurd on the topic of racism when all the speakers are rich and famous.  I suspect most of the treatment they receive at least in this country has more to do with their notoriety than their skin color or orientation.

 

Who knows why RO left the Katie Couric panel.  Maybe Ms. Minaj wanted a pre-interview chat.

 

And yes, I've been approached once in a store by someone who thought I worked there (because I wasn't wearing a coat).  I've also had my car pulled over by police more than once for no reason.  No, I am not black.  It's seldom that simple.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Qoass

[NextIteration]

I haven't watched it yet, but wow, there is a lot of reaction to yesterday's show.  Laverne Cox brought up implicit bias the last time that she co-hosted.  I don't think that Whoopi would understand what implicit bias was, if it smacked her in the head.  And that's the trouble, sometimes it isn't really outright racism, but it is chalk full of our implicit biases.  I'm sure I'll feel differently after I watch the episode, and I'll watch it, not listen to it.  One thing I know for a fact, with every passing day, Whoopi chooses to be willfully ignorant on a lot of topics, and she's a damn bully.

 

Here is a photo of Rosie with Ellis from the summer of 2013.

 

I can't even believe that they had a segment of anyone promoting a Stephen Collins segment on any show, let alone a white wash of the situation, no wonder RO was triggered.

[Milk-Eyed Mender]

And no, Ms Wallace; electing Obama did not wipe away many years or prejudice, stereotype and decades of racism. In fact, I think his presidency bought latent fears and hatred from people that swept it under the rug , pretending there was no problem because those people "know their place". I do feel as a country we overcame those that seek to divide, but that doesn't mean they go away. In fact, they are given a bigger platform and attention. There is even a network that uses dog whistles in order to further cement the idea that minorities are the problem. And when Obama does address racism, he's treated with ridicule and is accused of dividing the country while at the same time blaming him for not addressing the problem. We can't have a national conversation on race while at the same time getting mad that we are talking about race. So eff off with that two sided bullshit.

There are 30-40 posts I need to quote as "best post ever" but I'll spare the spam and settle for highlighting this piece of perfection. You've nailed Obama's specific burden as a black president so eloquently, thank you.

Everything that could be said about Whoopi has pretty much been said, but I do have a comment about one of her statements. I'm sorry I don't have a direct quote, but she said something about not waking up every day thinking "I'm black." Basically, that she goes about her business without skin tone ever entering her brain. That is completely at odds with the experiences of 100 percent of black people posting on my twitter feed, who find themselves held to and paying for their skin color every damned day. Leads me to believe Whoopi has been breathing rarified, triple-distilled, wealthy-celebrity air for so long that she has about as much standing to pontificate on the black experience as Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity or Megyn Kelly or me. I'm not saying there is a universal black experience, but her lack of empathy and understanding for those still in the trenches of a racially-divided reality boggles the mind.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Milk-Eyed Mender

[NextIteration]

...and now I watched the show.  sigh

 

Whoopi is a dumb-assed bully, full stop.

 

My girl Laverne, brought up implicit bias again.  Yaaas.  I sort of adhere to the power-based definition of racism personally, and the rest I see as prejudice, bigotry and implicit bias.  I'm not saying that my way is correct or the best way, I'm just old school like that. ;)  None of that excuses Whoopi for telling us stupid white folks that we don't know what racism is.  Laverne, once again in a tense topic was spot on.  Nicolle was spewing the Republican talking point about us being post racial since we elected a black man twice as POTUS.  Bless you RO, you stood your ground but you weren't the bully, Whoopi was.

 

I thought that RO's exit was very discreet from the Stephen Collins topic with Katie, it hurts my heart that somebody on that show thought that booking was a good idea.  She came back strong with Niki Minaj so all was good.

 

A break from the Whoopi Goldberg Hour will be a good thing, I'm off to find the clips of RO on Letterman.

[DollEyes]

 Whoopi just keeps getting worse. Her attacking RO was bad enough, but her beliefs that only White people are racist and that Black people can't be racist are pure deep-fried fuckery. As a Black woman who has White friends and who knows that there are Black people who are racist, Whoopi is dead wrong on both counts. This isn't the first time that Whoopi has given me and my fellow sisters a bad name and unfortunately, it won't be the last.

 

  As for Nicole Wallace's claim that America's not racist anymore because it elected Obama, that's like saying Hollywood's not racist because Whoopi and Chris Rock hosted the Oscars (and Whoopi has one), that the music business isn't racist because LL Cool J hosts the Grammys and that the justice system's not racist because Clarence Thomas and Sonia Sotomayor are on the Supreme Court. Both Whoopi and Nicole need to have more seats than the Superdome, as far as I'm concerned.

 

  If Laverne Cox wasn't already busy on Orange Is the New Black, I'd say she would make a perfect replacement for Whoopi. She's talented, smart, funny, classy and beautiful-in other words, she's everything Whoopi's not.

 

ETA: Medicine Crow:  what I meant by "both" is that IMO Whoopi's claims that only Whites are racist and that Black people can't be are bullshit because while my White friends and I don't always discuss race when we're together, when they ask me something about it, I can give my opinion to them in a thoughtful, mature and honest way. As for Black people and racism, unfortunately, some members of my family know Black people who are prejudiced against other races especially Whites, but while some of them used to feel the same a long time ago, they've changed for the better since then.  Now that I've read the other responses to your question, I wish that you would have clarified which "both" you meant.

Edited December 21, 2014 by DollEyes

[Medicine Crow]

 Whoopi just keeps getting worse. Her attacking RO was bad enough, but her beliefs that only White people are racist and that Black people can't be racist are pure deep-fried fuckery. As a Black woman who has White friends and who knows that there are Black people who are racist, Whoopi is dead wrong on both counts. This isn't the first time that Whoopi has given me and my fellow sisters a bad name and unfortunately, it won't be the last.

 

  As for Nicole Wallace's claim that America's not racist anymore because it elected Obama, that's like saying Hollywood's not racist because Whoopi and Chris Rock hosted the Oscars (and Whoopi has one), that the music business isn't racist because LL Cool J hosts the Grammys and that the justice system's not racist because Clarence Thomas and Sonia Sotomayor are on the Supreme Court. Both Whoopi and Nicole need to have more seats than the superdome, as far as I'm concerned.

 

  If Laverne Cox wasn't already busy on Orange Is the New Black, I'd say she would make a perfect replacement for Whoopi. She's talented, smart, funny, classy and beautiful-in other words, she's everything Whoopi's not.

Sorry DollEyes, I was going along, agreeing with your post until I got to:  "Both .... "  What does that mean?

[maryis1]

I've been thinking about my post since I woke up this morning. The story about Michelle Obama being asked by the woman to reach up onto the shelf at Target to retrieve something is one that I heard Michelle tell right after it happened. The way she told it, with a lot of humor, did not smack of her feeling it was anything other than the usual tall woman helping the shorter woman reach an item on the top shelf. I am surprised that suddenly it has become a story about "white privilege" racism or whatever. When Michelle told it originally, she led me to believe that she got a real kick out of the fact that she was able to be anonymous in the Target store and feel "normal" and just one of the shoppers. I never got the feeling that the woman who asked her mistook her for anything but a tall woman who could help her. Any of us who have some height have been asked the same. I'm sorry this has turned into a racial issue rather than a fun story.

 

And thank you for mentioning that Rosie can 'feel it in her arteries' when her stress levels go up. That is not a myth and it is not an exaggeration. What Rosie is describing is what used to be called angina pectoris. It can start quietly in the heart and make major arteries spasm. And you feel it.

 

Sorry I missed Rosie on Dave last night. Would have loved to hear the conversation. Dave has had major heart surgery and I'm sure he understood what Rosie was talking about.

PS totally off topic, but if you have a chance, watch Colbert's final show online or on the TV. That was why I missed Rosie's segment on Letterman.

[Stacee]

Sorry DollEyes, I was going along, agreeing with your post until I got to:  "Both .... "  What does that mean?

 "Take a seat..." pretty much is a phrase used to politely say go sit down and shut the fuck up. Like when your teacher would tell you to have a seat.

 

From Urban Dictionary:

take a seat

a phrase most commonly used to shut someone down completely.

Sam: hey can i take the pass to go to the bathroom

Teacher: Hey! Take a seat!

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Take%20a%20seat

[Medicine Crow]

 "Take a seat..." pretty much is a phrase used to politely say go sit down and shut the fuck up. Like when your teacher would tell you to have a seat.

 

From Urban Dictionary:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Take%20a%20seat

Uhh, duhhh, thanks Stacee.  I just didn't "get it" in the context.  Much appreciated!

[Cosmocrush]

I was extremely disappointed in Katie.  I understand her career may be in freefall and she's trying to be provocative, but it really rubbed me the wrong way.  She called the whole thing "fascinating", like Stephen Collins is any different than the other thousands of child molesters.  Also, fascinating tends to be a word with a positive connotation.  Just poor wording.  She also chose to make a joke in the middle of everything - just so tacky.  I will not be watching 20/20.  The interview is clearly image mending, and Katie is his co-conspirator. 

 

I did not understand any of that interview, starting with why she did it.  She said Collins wanted to do a sit down interview where, "he could control the content" and she agreed?   Sounds like some sort of Barbara Walters move to me and I guess I expected better of Couric.  Blech. 

Edited December 19, 2014 by Cosmocrush

[jonesingjay]

I can't watch the Beverly Johnson interview because I know Whoopi's bias on Bill Cosby would alter how she conducted the interview. The comments here of what happened are more than enough for me. 

 

I did watch the shouting match about what is racism and whether or not anyone besides black people can understand the true meaning of it. I can't say that I enjoyed Whoopi being asleep behind the wheel for so many years, but I definitely don't enjoy her shouting her opinion at others or her desire to have the final say.

 

She's turned this show into Whoopi's View, and even if I agreed with her opinion on the majority of the topics discussed I'd still be disappointed that she doesn't allow/makes it very difficult for the other women at the table to get their points across. 

 

No, Whoopi I won't tweet that at you as you've made it quite clear that your view is the only one that matters. 

 

In a surprising turn of events Thursday's episode warmed me up to Rosie P. for the first time because of the concern she showed for Rosie O. I still don't think Rosie P. is right for the job, and have doubts that she'll be back after a year.

[backformore]

 (Roger from Ohio) Her thoughts on racism is quite bizarre to me... in all the different discussions that I have had... I have been told that I should keep my opinions to myself because Im not black before (I didn't listen) but I have never heard someone say the only type of racism is using the N word or making a slur directly to someone. Sure that is racism... but there are many many other subtle ways for ignorant people to react negatively toward someone based on the color of their skin.

Yeah, I was thinking about it, and trying to figure out what Whoopi meant about racism.  She sure didn't articulate her view very well.  She's thinking that denying a person a job or housing, based on race, or being physically or verbally aggressive, are the only things that "count"  as racist.   The example Rosie P gave, of a Latino woman at a fancy event, being asked to clear a table, was dismissed by Whoopi as not being racist.  OK, it didn't HURT the person, in terms of being aggressive.  But Whoopi dismissed the idea that assuming someone is out of place merely because of their race, IS racist.  It's not as overt, and people doing it would deny they are racist, but that is the point.   It's what Laverne was referring to as "implicit racism".

 

 Assuming someone is working at a certain job because of their race, is done by people who swear they are not racist.   The reason it matters, is that when people have these subconscious attitudes, it reflects in their behavior.   When a person is in a position to hire and fire others, their implicit racism (or sexism)  plays a role that they don't even acknowledge.  A white person might get a job over a Black or Hispanic person, because they "look the part".   Employers might assume that a non-white person who has been successful "got there by affirmative action", and not take their accomplishments as seriously as they would if the person were white. Those are examples of implicit racism that can have a profound effect on someone's life.  

Whoopi might call these things stupid or ignorant instead of racist, but I don't understand.  If someone makes an ignorant decision based on their own opinions about race, then they are being racist.  

 

What struck me about the show, was when Whoopi yelled at Rosie O and called her "lady".   It was weird, because she was full of hatred, and Whoopi doesn't usually let that level of hatred show. 

Edited December 19, 2014 by backformore

[backformore]

Re-thinking the "is it racism or just ignorance?"  thing, I recall an incident from work.   A white co-worker has said thing to the only Black guy in the office like, "Did you see that show Black-ish last night?  I thought of you when I watched it.  Is that like your family?"   and "You remind of of the guy on Key and Peele, you look just like him."  Those are examples of someone being ignorant, not racist.   The person was trying to be friendly.   The same  person asked a gay co-worker if he "had a Grace", thinking that all gay guys had a "Will & Grace"  type of relationship with a woman.

 

These are the kinds of things I think of when Whoopi says something or someone  is "not racist, just ignorant."  It's not harmful, it's just uninformed.  It speaks to the implicit ideas about a person as a member of a group, and not an individual.  But those implicit ideas ARE harmful, and sometimes based on racism.  

 

As I said before, Whoopi may have had a point.  But she didn't think enough of the audience to explain her view, and she quickly became verbally aggressive when other disagreed.  

[Morgalisa]

 

Assuming someone is working at a certain job because of their race, is done by people who swear they are not racist.   The reason it matters, is that when people have these subconscious attitudes, it reflects in their behavior.

 

I have White friends who I would not describe as racist.  However, sometimes they make comments that are racist.  For instance, at a party where I was one of two Black people, a friends husband asked me if I knew the other Black lady or were we related.  There were over 100 people at the party.  I explained that his comment was racist (to me) and he seemed to understand and took it very well. 

I usually don't engage in conversations about politics, religion or race.  They are usually circular and frustrating, but I am enjoying reading the thoughtful and differing points of view and it helps me to see another side.

I usually agree with Rosie O and I think she definitely knows bias when she sees it.  Down with Whoopi.  

[Neurochick]

Looked at another way , Rosie might have an even better perspective to know what racism is. Whooping is Black, reminded us that she's been black nearly 60 years. Rosie is white with kids, one of whom is Black. Rosie is in a position to see first hand how her child is treated differently than she is, differently than her other kids. To me, racism means treating a person differently due to pre-conceived notions about people of the same race.

 

 

I saw this and was totally pissed off at Whoopi.  I once saw a white woman on a talk show who'd adopted a black child.  She said that she has learned how racist both she AND her husband were.  She's learning a lot about race because she's a white woman with a black child and because white people might say things to her, thinking she's just white; now she hears these things with different ears.  Whoopi is ignorant if she thinks that only black people know about racism.  Maybe black people know more about racism against blacks, just the same as gay people know more about homophobia than straight people, and Asians know more about racism against Asians than non-Asians, and women know more about sexism than men.  But for Whoopi to say that ONLY black people know about racism is as ignorant as Whoopi is.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Neurochick

[RogerFromOhio]

There are so many great new posts after my last one last night.... but even though I am not going to quote them.... I did read them all.... what an intelligent group we have here.

[maryis1]

I'm glad that someone brought up the fact that Whoopi called Rosie O "Lady" at one point in the argument. Do I believe there are worse things than racism? Yes I do. And calling someone "lady" in an argument is very ugly. Especially when you know her name. To call someone whose name you know "lady" is an ugly thing to do. It's actually VERY hateful. Very, very hateful. And to display that hatred in front of an audience of many, many people watching their TV and think that it is actually OK to do that shows that Whoopi has her own deep seated biases as well.

 

If you want to convince people about what you are arguing FOR, then for God's sake you better be on solid ground to argue your points. She probably wouldn't recognize that in that moment she showed more hatred for the woman across from her than Rosie O who had initially been agreeing with the point that racism can be insidious and deeply held.

 

And I'm no huge fan of Rosie O. But to spit that "lady" at her was just as ugly as anything.

[Medicine Crow]

 

O'Donnell then told her fellow co-hosts that "without a doubt" she believes we live in a racist country, leading Goldberg to later state,  "You know what, listen, you are a white lady telling me what is racist to you, which is fine."

Hey maryis1, I copied this from one of the web sites posted yesterday.  Although I HATE everything Whoopi said (& stands for), the above context of her saying "lady" is not the same as what you've indicated.  It's not like she said:  "Look lady, blah, blah!"  Just sayin'.

[mbutterfly]

That's exactly what she said before Whoopi shouted her down.   RO said, "It's racist AND it's stupid." 

 

I laughed (not out loud and not in a good way, more like a smirk) when Nicolle declared that any country that elects a Black president cannot have race issues/be racist.  Geezus, her world is small. 

Has Nicolle heard of South Africa?

[maggiemae]

WG really has it in for RO. Today RO told a cute story about a kid that asked who is that man on the T? WG yells you've got to educate them!

Then later when she sang the Wise Man song - no one had any idea what she was talking about. Including NW that asked where they were walking from. But with RO"s comment she gave the audience the side eye.

Anyone else hate the Mario Rudolf skit?

[mbutterfly]

I have White friends who I would not describe as racist.  However, sometimes they make comments that are racist.  For instance, at a party where I was one of two Black people, a friends husband asked me if I knew the other Black lady or were we related.  There were over 100 people at the party.  I explained that his comment was racist (to me) and he seemed to understand and took it very well. 

I usually don't engage in conversations about politics, religion or race.  They are usually circular and frustrating, but I am enjoying reading the thoughtful and differing points of view and it helps me to see another side.

I usually agree with Rosie O and I think she definitely knows bias when she sees it.  Down with Whoopi.  

There are lots and lots of us who, like your friend, are trying. But sometimes we mess up. Good for you for sharing with him. Whoopi, not so much. 

[backformore]

If you watch the whole show, there was, at the end of the argument, a moment in which whoopi addressed Rosie as "lady". It wasn't when she referred to her a white lady. It was addressing her as lady in a dismissive way.

Edited December 19, 2014 by backformore

[Haleth]

I thought it was pretty racist of Whoopi to catagorically reject that a white person could identify something as racist.