S04.E12: Heroes And Villains

[YaddaYadda]

The sad thing is we didn't even need the gauntlet to resolve Belle's storyline. You know what would have done the exact same thing, and was actually established in a previous episode? The freaking voice message.

 

A voice message?  You must've dreamt that Hook called Emma in desperation trying to get her not to go to the house where Rumple was waiting to basically kill her, telling her he'd rather she lives and never forgive him for the things he's done. That never happened.  You're cute!  You have such a nice and vivid imagination!

 

I think they're about to introduce Camelot for next season.  You have that sword and then he talks about that gauntlet that came from Camelot.  So yeah, Camelot it is next which for me is super frightening.

[LucidDreamer]

Is it just me or did we get the storyboard version of this episode instead of the completed one?

 

Everything felt rushed and underdeveloped, especially the FROZEN group's farewell -- wasn't a super fan of them, but that scene was really poorly done. Bye, bye, get outta here, no -- wait, Anna must deliver the deus ex machina info. about Rumple before she disappears.

 

Surprised they showed Anna in her wedding dress -- thought they'd save that for the inevitable FROZEN rehash, uhm, sequel.

 

The Belle and Rumple scene was good. Finally some redemption for my favorite gal from the Disney animated films.

 

WTH was Emma doing drinking with Regina and jumping into the awful contrivance that is Operation Mongoose?  Speaking of that, WTH does that name have to do with the actual "project" to find the author, etc.?  I don't think Disney owns Riki-Tiki-Tavi, so they can't even bring in an actual (bad CGI) mongoose.

 

The author writes the book and things happen? Or things change if the book is edited? Wow, really not a fan of this predestination plot point. How about actions determine outcomes? (And the book just records that).  Wasn't that the original concept?  (Oh wait, I guess someone found the "author" of OUAT and forced them to change everything -- well, that would explain a lot).

 

Where did the hat go? Where did the fairies and other people/beings in it go? What in Mickey's name is going on with that? Will we ever know?

 

Rumple in NYC just happens to find Ursula. Who is in NYC for what reason? Not that I really care, but it does seem odd. I suppose we'll get some flashback to explain this (or... not).

 

Truthfully, I am not that interested in the next part of the season. Nothing presented in this episode intrigued me. Probably will watch just to see  if Emma and Hook ever actually have coffee, but that's about it.

[sharky]

I think someone mentioned a few months ago that a mongoose is a natural predator of the cobra -- hence the name. Still find that whole storyline stupid and contrived. I wish it could've walked away and disappeared from Storybrooke the way the Hoods did.

 

So upon rewatching the Captain Swan scenes again and again and again [don't judge], I'm even more impressed with the scene between Hook and Emma at the diner. It was so obvious that it was Rumple's version of Hook. The way Colin did all of his lines with Robert's cadence was brilliant. Plus, he poured his rum into teacups, which is totally something that Gold would do since we all know Hook has no problem passing around his flask. Then there was the dead look on his face, and the cuts back and forth between the diner and Gold's shop. And I really loved how they edited the end where you can hear Gold saying "love" while seeing Hook mouth the same word in the diner. That scene was just brilliant!

 

So why was the rest of the episode so meh?

[Tiger]

To paraphrase ModFam's Jay Pritchett, this whole show is one massive fog cue. At least with Blacklist and GH, I can fanwank away the inconsistencies, contrivances, etc., but I just can't anymore with this show.

I do have to admit, I loved the final Belle/Rumple scene and Cruella was awesome, but that's not enough to bring me back in March.

ETA: Robin Hood is officially the most self-centered douche waffle on television, officially surpassing Sonny Corinthos and Cameron Tucker. I would definitely tune back in to see Marian go all Lorena Babbitt on his bitchass.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Tiger

[Alex]

I actually liked how Hook was given his heart back, without angst or frills. Pragmatic way for two pragmatic persons, albeit both passionate!

I don't see Emma overworry about all this because she knew for a grand total of 10 minutes that Hook could have died. And I don't see Hook willingly talking about this in details.

I was not expecting anything particularly sentimental, such as TLK, a love declaration or Emmma's angst over a dying Hook (too dramatic!), but that because I don't think they really need all the words and the gestures. Emma's "I can't lose you too" was enough for me. They know that they care for each other and are together and it's what matters most to me.

 

I gladly leave all the angst to Regina and Robin, although Regina was not that teary, phew.

 

Kudos to Robert and Colin, who have played their scenes (together and not) in a magnificent way.

[ShadowFacts]

I am reduced to finding small things to amuse myself since the plots and characters are so very stupid -- Emma was the last one to be ruined in favor of propping up Regina, so at least I had a few laughs with this one. 

 

• Rumple admitting to Belle that he likes power
• Marian and Roland frolicking waterside while her husband and his girlfriend chat a few yards behind them
• Regina and Emma drinking in Granny's diner-I always giggle when people drink there because diners maybe have a couple beer and wine selections, but for the hard stuff, geez, go to a bar
• Ursula telling Rumple that the author is pretentious and she hates him already
• Finally, someone upthread said they mistook Henry for Snow at first in a scene, so did I.

   

[allyj128]

This whole savior/happy ending thing is really starting to get on my nerves. Is Emma going door-to-door asking all of the residents of Storybrooke how she can give them a happy ending? Actually, I'd like to see that: "Hello, my name is Emma Swan and I would like to share with you the most amazing book!" (hat tip to The Book of Mormon). I think it mostly grates that Regina and Rumple think they're entitled to happy endings while those who actually "deserve" them aren't sitting around moping or being evil because they don't have one yet.

 

And because my mind is pretty firmly in the gutter at this point -- happy endings for all!

 

I just snorted so loudly in my office that the people walking by asked if I was okay. God bless Alt + Tab to quickly hide what I was doing. That musical is amazing.

 

 

So upon rewatching the Captain Swan scenes again and again and again [don't judge], I'm even more impressed with the scene between Hook and Emma at the diner. It was so obvious that it was Rumple's version of Hook. The way Colin did all of his lines with Robert's cadence was brilliant. Plus, he poured his rum into teacups, which is totally something that Gold would do since we all know Hook has no problem passing around his flask. Then there was the dead look on his face, and the cuts back and forth between the diner and Gold's shop. And I really loved how they edited the end where you can hear Gold saying "love" while seeing Hook mouth the same word in the diner. That scene was just brilliant!

 

I was going to bold the parts I really wanted to emphasize/agree with, but it was your entire freaking post. YES! Colin did SUCH a good job here. It was amazing. I was all, "EMMA! You KNOW something is wrong! Run after him! Oh, and now we're at the creepy Apprentice's house without Hook. Of course."

 

Sigh.

 

Her putting the heart back in his chest was lovely up until she ditched him to go drink with Regina. My headcanon is that is post-coffee drinks and a cigarette type of moment. Because otherwise? Emma, honey, we need to discuss priorities when you have that gorgeous pirate pining after you.

[SzmuttyPratfall]

I have decided that I am fine with the Author subplot if the Author has abilities that warp reality, and then they actively talk about how they set up each contrivance on the show. It will turn out that the Author is the Contrivance Fairy, and that she has been canon the whole time.

 

I kinda was hoping that Cruella would be like human villains from 2b... yeah I know... and be a normal who knows about supernaturals, but act like a poacher, like "These are rare and mystical creatures... I will hunt them for sport. Kinda combining her with Clayton. But no, she is an Enchanted FOrester. What a waste.

[shipperx]

As much as I'd like to talk about some of the good stuff that happened, I am SO disappointed from the lack of CaptainSwan. Rumple had Hook's heart and was playing him for how many episodes? And we don't even get a conversation between Emma and Hook about everything that he went through?.

That was my greatest disappointment of the show. Pacing wise they probably should have lost the Frozen crew last week, ending the last week with Anna giving Emma the heads up so that the superfluous Frozen stuff could be skipped this episode so that we could have more time for the search for Rumple and Hook.

[BoPeeps]

I watched last night hungry for a cohesive winding up, sending off, introduction of a story that continues to tweak my deep affection of fairy tales, creative imagination and sometimes, brilliance.

Small moments grabbed me, still, but I was saddened that it came up so chaotically short. This morning the sadness veered towards annoyance.

It seems that while a few solidly played scenes (Belle's great dispatch of the brilliantly played cowardly Rumple; Hook's hand trembling on Emma's arm against Gold's dastardly heart control) are included during broadcast, most of this series now is played out off camera in scenes we never get to see but are spelled out by the fans in Social Media.

Potent one liners by characters lead us to "imagine" what the rest of the dialogue was while ooh quick, let's jump to another scene addressing another plot development that will be explained by further off camera ,supposed dialogue.

These creators/writers have some truly imaginative ideas, but too much is left to off screen storytelling and writer-saving fan supposition on social media.

TV is still a visual medium and it would much better serve the viewing fans to actually play out the story where we can actually SEE it. Show us the damned story. You have some super characters...let them intelligently perform their craft, please.

And while you are at it, reward the intelligent viewing audience for their loyalty to you on this adventure with more visual telling of this tale.

[Writing Wrongs]

For some reason, I've felt like if they ever found the author of the book it would be the end of the show. Guess not.

 

Has Emilie gotten fuller or is she pregnant in real life? 'Cause those breasts be popping.

[valandsend]

I know I've heard that line about "gin and desperation" before. Anyone know where it originated?

[ImogenLeFay]

Oh show, why do you keep doing this?

 

I was actually pretty annoyed at the episode at first. The whole Outlaw Queen Drama and the way too contrived way to break them up, even though everybody was fine with them, and then Emma completely noticing that something was off about Hook - and just shrugging and going on with her business.

 

And then, Belle. Never thought thiss day would come, but I cheered through the whole confrontation of Rumpel. Just amazing, redeemed her in my eyes. And then the Frozen glimpse, I really loved it and was ready to love the episode.

 

And what do they do? Completely ignore Hook after what must have been quite an ordeal, have Emma go off to do shots and whine with Woegina, and then even more of Operation Braindead. The more they talk about this idiocy, the more I hate it. And now everybody is buying it. On what proof exactly? What hint did they get that the author actually influences the events? It all goes back to Regina once more looking for somebody else to blame for all her problems and there weren't any convenient ten year olds around. Can you believe that of all the people who heard about it, Snow was the only one who was sceptical and said something basically about making your own fate? Everybody else just bought it immediately. That won't make this nonsense sound reasonable, I don't care if every single character on this show tries to tell me the opposite, it's ridiculous!

 

But hey, we can't end the half-season on a satisfactory note. Wherever would that lead us?

...then again, didn't help in 3A or 3B either, so what do I know?

[Spartan Girl]

Favorite line of the episode: "Cruella!  I thought I caught a whiff of gin and desperation!"  Hee.

 

Wow, a lot happened in this episode.  I could give a shit less about Regina and Operation Mongoose, but Rumple teaming up with the Queens of Darkness might be fun.  I wonder how Cruella fits into the Enchanted Forest...

Edited December 15, 2014 by Spartan Girl

[buffynut]

Others have already posted this, but I too am going to miss the Frozen characters.  And unlike last season's fall finale when I couldn't wait for the show to return, this year I'm not very excited at all.   I don't know the stories of Ursula or Malicifent. And I know only a little about Cruela, so I have no idea where they are going with Rumple's Angels (love the name, btw)

 

I loved that Belle finally saw the real Rumple. I thought he was going to be the "big bag" next spring, and maybe he still will be, but I didn't expect him to lose his power.

 

I wish, however, they would stop bringing new characters on and just focus on the ones we already know.  Do we really need a new "big bad" twice a year?  I really miss Red and her interaction with Granny and Snow.  And there's so many other characters we were introduced to in the 1st season that we never see anymore.

[daxx]

I am not going to reiterate all my complaints as I have seen them all listed here already. I will say my biggest problem with this ep is cutting from Emma kissing Hook after rehearting him to shots with Regina and no proper transition. I so could have done without that scene. Or simply shorten it, show Emma getting up from a booth with Hook to have a quick convo with Regina. Simple.

[kili]

It seems that while a few solidly played scenes (Belle's great dispatch of the brilliantly played cowardly Rumple; Hook's hand trembling on Emma's arm against Gold's dastardly heart control) are included during broadcast,

 

Those were brilliant scenes. Whoever wrote them needs to be allowed to write more. Whoever wrote the rest of the episode needs to consider another line of employment. If it is the same person, they may want to see Archie about their unfortunate bipolar disorder.

 

most of this series now is played out off camera in scenes we never get to see but are spelled out by the fans in Social Media.

 

In that vein, I've figured out how the entire heart scene went down. Snow and Emma are unfrozen and hear Belle tell Rumple to take her to the town line. They book it there to help Belle, leaving Hook to overcome the mental and physical anguish of almost having his  heart crushed by himself. Once he realizes that he's all alone and nobody is coming back, he stumbles out of the clock tower. He heads over to Grannie's looking for help because it is the only place open other than the Rabbit Hole (and figuring that waving a heart around the Rabbit Hole will not end well - it will probably end up an ingredient in a drink like that toe in that drink in the Yukon).

 

The minute he walks into  Grannie's, she shouts at him to get that thing out of her place - nobody is going to order the lasgne if there is a beating heart on the counter. But, she's not totally heartless, she agrees to let him hang out near the bathroom and even gives him a take-away bag to keep his heart in until he finds somebody to put it in his chest. Regina comes by to use the loo and he asks her for help "Not now Pirate, I got some pining  of my own to do".  Fine, he's not sure he trusts Regina with his heart anyway. Next comes Sneezy, but he doesn't even ask because he's not sure of what putting a snot covered heart in your chest might do. Belle comes along to wash the tears off of her face in the bathroom. He explains his plight and while she's sympathetic, she doesn't know how to put in a heart. She rushes off to the library to do some research and promises to return.

 

Finally, Emma comes in and asks what he's doing there. He mentions about the heart and while she is busy drinking with Regina, she agrees to shove his heartr in. Quickly done, he kisses her. She tells him "Easy Tiger, Regina's waiting." Emma heads back to the bar and Hook goes wherever it is he goes when he's not sleeping on a bench on the docks.

 

I'm interested in other interpretations on how Hook's heart gets from the Clock Tower to the bathroom hallway of Grannie's that makes any sense at all.  Unless Enna unndiately left Hook at the Clock Tower, I see no reason it wasn't put back immediately.

[Mari]

I'm interested in other interpretations on how Hook's heart gets from the Clock Tower to the bathroom hallway of Grannie's that makes any sense at all.  Unless Enna unndiately left Hook at the Clock Tower, I see no reason it wasn't put back immediately.

Maybe Hook was afraid it would be painful, or Emma was afraid she wouldn't be able to do it, and they wanted to do that potentially dangerous/miserable/horrible thing in relative privacy?

 

If they were concerned about putting it back in--and from the body language, at least one of them was--they could've put it off for that reason.

[Writing Wrongs]

A review I read was wondering if Cruella can shapeshift into a Dalmatian puppy. I never thought of that as a possibility.

[HoodlumSheep]

I actually liked how Hook was given his heart back, without angst or frills. Pragmatic way for two pragmatic persons, albeit both passionate!

I don't see Emma overworry about all this because she knew for a grand total of 10 minutes that Hook could have died. And I don't see Hook willingly talking about this in details.

I was not expecting anything particularly sentimental, such as TLK, a love declaration or Emmma's angst over a dying Hook (too dramatic!), but that because I don't think they really need all the words and the gestures. Emma's "I can't lose you too" was enough for me. They know that they care for each other and are together and it's what matters most to me.

I gladly leave all the angst to Regina and Robin, although Regina was not that teary, phew.

Kudos to Robert and Colin, who have played their scenes (together and not) in a magnificent way.

I was fine with the way hook got his heart back too. It was cute. They are a couple who rely on actions more than words, but I just wish there had been one line, just one, of her asking, "are you ok?" That's it. They could have ended the scene with a simple "yep," and I'd have been 10x more satisfied.

And Colin deserves a standing ovation for that diner scene. I mentioned this in the hook thread earlier. It's probably my new favorite Golden Hook scene (if you could really call it that). All the details--everything that Rumple was doing wrong (the teacup thing) to impersonate hook, right down to Hook having Rumple's speech pattern.

The diner scene and Belle/Rumple face-off were the highlights of the night for me. And Cruella's snark.

[The Cake is a Pie]

Yeah, the hallway heart scene is utterly baffling to me. There is literally no reason why it couldn't and shouldn't have been put back in immediately. Then if they must have the shots scene, have Emma and Hook walk into the diner and they see Regina sitting there at the counter and Emma stops to talk to her. That would have felt much more organic that what we got.

 

Poor Belle. No one thought to check on her. For all they know, she is still having an epic domestic dispute with Rumple. No one knows she sent him over the line. If they did, it's pretty mean for them not to invite her out for shots, too. She needs a drink more than any of them.

 

 

And Colin deserves a standing ovation for that diner scene. I mentioned this in the hook thread earlier. It's probably my new favorite Golden Hook scene (if you could really call it that). All the details--everything that Rumple was doing wrong (the teacup thing) to impersonate hook, right down to Hook having Rumple's speech pattern.

 

I agree, it was pretty spectacular. Even his accent sounded slightly different. I half expected his last word to be "dearie" and that would be the giveaway.

Edited December 15, 2014 by The Cake is a Pie

[Delphi]

I'm not sure how I came out of that episode feeling terrible for Rumple but I did, I cried, I felt so damn bad for him. I can only assume it's due to Roberts amazing in his craft and manages to elevate everyone else in turn.

I'm glad belle finally got to be the hero she wanted, but it's probably not how she thought that would come about. Alas, everything comes with a price.

[FurryFury]

Wow that was so disappointing! I guess I'm really out of love with the show, kinda like 2B, but maybe even worse at this point.

 

Everything is just so... lightweight, so boring, so contrived! I mean, EVERYTHING about Robin/Regina romance (and about Robin in general) is a terrific example of bad, unacceptable writing. Even Robert Carlyle has stopped trying. I mean, I love evil Rumple... in theory. I loved him with Anna in her flashbacks, and back in S1 with basically everyone. But his scenes with Hook? Absolutely unmemorable. With Maleficent and Co he phoned it in even worse (and so did Kristin van Bauer, actually).

 

Also, I think the show has completely ruined Hook. I liked him for a long time, but now, I just don't care. He was completely stripped of his agency and became a pure plot device. If he disappeared from the show completely, I probably wouldn't miss it. He's not as bad as Robin (nobody is), but that's not saying much. The whole Hook's heart arc was cringeworthy.

 

The only scene I loved was Regina/Rumple. It was probably the closest Rumple has ever gone to admitting he cares about Regina. It was nice, and still in character, and I could tell both Lana and Robery actually tried acting. They always bring out the best in each other, imho. Such an interesting relationship under-appreciated by the writers (but then, they'd just ruin it with their heavy-handed messages and stuff).

 

Won't even touch Emma/Regina with a 10-foot pole, however. Rumple/Regina is the only relationship of Regina I can handle because he's the only person she hasn't harmed directly or indirectly (well, she has hurt Belle, but she's not even his true love - a revelation long time coming).

 

Carlyle also didn't phone it in in the town line scene, which I quite liked... and would have probably loved if I didn't know all will be forgiven eventually. Oh well.

 

I'm going to miss Georgina Haig. She hasn't been given much to work with, but she was sooo good! Hope to see her soon in a show worthy of her talent. And hey, maybe I'll actually finish Fringe (stopped watching in s4 after a very lackluster season).

Edited December 15, 2014 by FurryFury

[stealinghome]

Outside of being a CS fan, I thought the resolution of all of this was just very meh, very underwhelming, very disappointing.

I agree. I'm decidedly not a Captain Swan fan and Hook does nothing for me--and even *I* thought the resolution to the whole hat plotline was a debacle. Far, far too rushed and underwhelming.

 

Poor Belle. No one thought to check on her. For all they know, she is still having an epic domestic dispute with Rumple. No one knows she sent him over the line. If they did, it's pretty mean for them not to invite her out for shots, too. She needs a drink more than any of them.

I thought they all knew what Belle did to Rumpel by the end of the episode? That's what Emma and Regina's conversation implied to me, at any rate. I'm assuming that in Offscreenville, where all the actually important stuff happens, Belle walked back to town, found the Charmings and told them what went down, and at the end of the episode was home with Snow, David, and Snowflake, bawling her eyes out as Snow played sympathetic girlfriend and David awkwardly made hot chocolate in the background while taking care of Snowflake. That's my headcanon, anyway...because for all Snow and David were on screen this episode, they also might have taken a quick jaunt to Timbuktu for the weekend....

 

I don't blame them for not being worried about Belle--as long as she had the dagger, she was in no physical danger from Rumpel.

Edited December 15, 2014 by stealinghome

[Shanna Marie]

I won't say I'm out after this, but I have to say that this show has slid dramatically in my listing of priorities because while there are still characters I like and I want to see how they develop (I really am looking forward to seeing Empowered!Belle), the execution of just about everything is so bad and amateurish that it's disappointing, and if the characters, plot lines and relationships I like are given short shrift and no emotional payoff while the show lingers on the characters and plot lines I can't stand, it reduces the reasons for me to watch. I'll still watch live if there's nothing else on, but I'll be less prone to rearranging my schedule to be home to watch, and if there's something else on opposite, I'll watch that and catch this one later OnDemand.

 

I haven't been able to figure out the leap in logic from Anna's revelation that she knew Rumple to them showing up at the clock tower just in time to try to stop him from killing Hook. All Anna knew was the existence of the hat and what it did, but the last time she saw the hat box, Ingrid had it. Her revelation mostly proved that Rumple had been lying all along about not knowing anything about Anna, Ingrid or Elsa, and that suggested that Belle's dagger was a fake because Rumple had used her and the dagger to "prove" he was telling the truth. But none of that says anything to suggest that Rumple currently has the hat, that he's on the verge of using it, or that he'll be in the clock tower.

 

I guess one way it might have happened would be if Emma realized that this could have something to do with why Hook was acting weird, she went to call him but couldn't find her phone, then borrowed a phone to check messages, heard his warning, and then they raced into town, only to run into Belle, being led by the gauntlet to the tower, and then they planned for Emma and Snow to serve as a diversion to distract Rumple so Belle could come up behind him and grab the dagger.

 

But I'm guessing they didn't want to show any of this because they were going for the surprise aha moment of Belle with the dagger. Not that this was a surprise. I think we'd been guessing that Belle would get her hands on the real dagger at some point ever since the fake was revealed, and it was telegraphed pretty broadly with the sudden introduction of the gauntlet. They prioritized the surprise moment over any emotional resonance and got neither because it wasn't that shocking. Then I guess we couldn't get the immediate aftermath of them realizing what had been done to Hook and rushing to help him -- to get the heart back in right away instead of them apparently walking across town to do so -- because we had to follow Rumple and Belle to the town line. But why not stay with the clock tower group for thirty more seconds -- let them get to Hook and react and re-heart him -- before picking up as Rumple and Belle arrive at the town line?

 

And now the time jump means there are so many moments we'll never get to see that I think we needed to see. How is Belle doing in the immediate aftermath? Is she singing "I Will Survive" at the Rabbit Hole on karaoke night? Is she at home weeping? Is she talking to anyone about what happened? How did Emma even know what happened to Rumple? She just knows that Belle called him out and forced him to take her to the town line, but we didn't see anyone else find out what happened after that, and it's not like Belle's pattern of behavior would allow them to infer that she'd boot him out of town. He'd just been torturing Hook and needs Hook's heart to carry out his plan, so how do they know that Hook's at all safe? Hook was clearly traumatized by the things Rumple made him do. Wouldn't getting his heart back make all that hit him, hard? Are we not going to see him dealing with that and anyone else caring what happened?

 

There's so much in the aftermath of what went on with Rumple that's so much more interesting than Regina being sad because her boyfriend of a few weeks had to go back to his wife even after choosing her.

 

I've decided that Robin and Marian should end up down the road in Haven. The timelines are out of sync -- in Haven it's still the summer of 2011, and I think we're in early-mid 2013 in Storybrooke -- so there's a chance that things have finally settled down in Haven by 2013 so that it's no longer such a dangerous place, but it is a place populated with people who are totally used to weird stuff and who accept people who show up from other dimensions or realms. They also are used to providing refuge to people with strange backgrounds and have the know-how to create new identities for them. So if Robin Hood and Maid Marian showed up in town saying they got to this world through a curse and a time portal, the only reaction would be, "Welcome to town, let's get you set up with Social Security numbers, ID, a house and a job -- but you might want to be careful about thievery because the police are getting pretty bored now, and we've already got our rogue with a heart of gold in town." (And now I find myself shipping Marian with Duke. A boat would be a step up from a tent in the woods.)

[The Cake is a Pie]

 

I don't blame them for not being worried about Belle--as long as she had the dagger, she was in no physical danger from Rumpel.

 

No physical danger, but she just found out her husband was lying to her all along and banished him from town. I'd say that warrants more emotional support than poor Regina crying about sending away her boyfriend of about a week. Poor Belle. Maybe she and Hook are having a drink over at the Rabbit Hole, commiserating about how everyone forgets them until it's convenient.

[kili]

Maybe Hook was afraid it would be painful, or Emma was afraid she wouldn't be able to do it, and they wanted to do that potentially dangerous/miserable/horrible thing in relative privacy?

 

The privacy of a restaurant bathroom hallway? I could see if they waited to go to her appartment or his room or even the jailhouse or the hospital if they were worried about safely re-heartings someone, but a bathroom hallway? They couldn't even borrow a room from Grannie to do it? A bathroom hallway? My mind just boggles. It's not private, it's not safer, it's not cleaner, it's not more significant, it's not anything sensible. The only thing it might be is convenient. Like you've been meaning to talk to somebody and you ran into them on the way to the bathroom. Maybe that is exactly what happened. "Say, Emma, I've been meaning to get my heart back in. Do you have a sec?"

 

If [Hook] disappeared from the show completely, I probably wouldn't miss it

 

Neither would any of the characters.

Edited December 15, 2014 by kili

[legaleagle53]

I know I've heard that line about "gin and desperation" before. Anyone know where it originated?

That had to have been a shout-out to a line from Will & Grace:  "Karen Walker!  I thought I caught a whiff of gin and regret!"  It was one of the best insults that Beverly Leslie had ever lobbed in Karen's direction.

[Alex]

I was fine with the way hook got his heart back too. It was cute. They are a couple who rely on actions more than words, but I just wish there had been one line, just one, of her asking, "are you ok?" That's it. They could have ended the scene with a simple "yep," and I'd have been 10x more satisfied.

 

But she did ask! Not in words, but in looks. Immediately after she puts the heart back in the chest she questions with her eyes. And Hook answered yes to the question with another look and then the llok changed and became passion :) Yes, I'm definitely happy :)

 

 

The diner scene and Belle/Rumple face-off were the highlights of the night for me. And Cruella's snark.

 

And the Evil Queen look when Regina was in the car, I liked it!

[KingOfHearts]

How in the world did Henry find that secret passage in the author's house? Did he just go up to every single wall lamp and give a tug? "I'm a pro at finding secret rooms! I know all the tricks!" Him taking a random book to look at it and accidentally rotating a secret bookcase door would have been more practical than that.

Edited December 15, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[kili]

How in the world did Henry find that secret passage in the author's house? Did he just go up to every single wall lamp and give a tug?

 

Pick Me! Pick Me! I've read enough Nancy Drew to be able to answer this one.

 

Those stupid secret doors always leave scuff marks on the floor. Notice weird wear patterns on the hardwood floor? It is time to start tapping walls, pushing the wall carvings and tugging on the lamps - there is a secret door to be found.

 

I'm more troubled that they left a twelve year old in a sorcerer's house to explore. What next? Are they going to let him start juggling chainsaws?

[KingOfHearts]

 

Those stupid secret doors always leave scuff marks on the floor. Notice weird wear patterns on the hardwood floor? It is time to start tapping walls, pushing the wall carvings and tugging on the lamps - there is a secret door to be found.

I didn't see any scruffs... but! After rewatch it appears it was at the end of a hallway with no doors. That's very suspicious.

 

I love how Rumple mockingly said "Queens of Darkness" like it was a lame and trite name. Cruella was the only one of them that really stood out to me, especially with design and line delivery. Maleficent and Ursula's acting was bland at best. (Though, "He sounds pretentious. I hate him already," was a great villain line.)

 

I also thought the fact Mr. Gold was on to Henry the whole time was clever. Typical Rumple... though that makes that whole plot line meaningless.

Edited December 15, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[legaleagle53]

I'm more troubled that they left a twelve year old in a sorcerer's house to explore. What next? Are they going to let him start juggling chainsaws?

 

 

 

Well, theoretically, Henry should have inherited a portion of Emma's powers (remember, he's really only half-mortal; his mother's magic is innate, not acquired by external means, as Rumpel's was), so I figure it's just a matter of time before it starts manifesting itself.  Look out, Storybrooke!

Edited December 15, 2014 by legaleagle53

[The Cake is a Pie]

I'm just going to assume his pre-teen clumsiness caused him to trip over his own growing feet and he grabbed the sconce as he was falling. Since he is apparently tall enough to reach that high now.

[Serena]

While Emma and Regina were snickering about how happy they were that Rumple got defeated, did one of them pause to think of Belle, A HERO, who lost her husband? Maybe the thought could have come through Regina's self pity (I know) and she could have realized that a hero's relationship ended the same day her own did, and in a far more traumatic manner.

Oh, what am I even saying?

[twoods]

Ack this show! I was looking forward to the fallout from all the bad stuff that Rumple made Hook do, but of course nothing happened. I don't understand how a pretty big plot was hand waved. The Frozen stuff should have finished last week so there was more time for the other storylines to wrap up.

Rumple powerless will be interesting to watch, though it will probably be short lived.

[Gimme-A-Break]

Cruella?? She's probably the lamest villain that Disney has. She's a fashion designer who wanted to make fur coats out of puppies, and she has no powers. Vera Wang would be a better villain.

[Shanna Marie]

Rumple powerless will be interesting to watch, though it will probably be short lived.

On this show? He'll be back in town with his powers intact by the end of the next episode.

 

Maybe the thought could have come through Regina's self pity (I know) and she could have realized that a hero's relationship ended the same day her own did, and in a far more traumatic manner.

Yeah, that was rather emotionally tone-deaf, wasn't it? Hee, hee, Rumple has no power and got kicked out of town! But no thought to Belle, no realization that Belle had an unhappy ending and was probably miserable from doing the right thing.

 

In my head, while Regina and Emma are doing shots and feeling sorry for Regina, Hook went off to track down Belle to thank her for saving his life, apologize for not having told her about the fake dagger when he first knew about it, and make sure she's okay, and then they're sitting down at the docks, passing the rum flask back and forth and bitching about what an asshole Rumple is and how badly he treated them.

[CatMack]

I don’t think there’s another show on television as capable of building up something potentially awesome and then just throwing it away with zero pay off - no emotional or logical resolution whatsoever - as Once Upon a Time.

 

Aside from Belle growing a spine and being likeable again for the first time in a long time, everything about last night’s finale was pretty damn terrible.

Operation Mongoose has been one of the worst aspects of this season - it’s completely illogical and feeds into Regina’s obnoxious victim complex.  And now everyone else is in on it?  Emma’s joining in, you have 4, FOUR, villains set up for next half season and they all want to find the author of the book to get happy endings?

 

There are two ways this story ends - either they’re right, the writers have lost their damn minds and have decided that the author of the book is some kind of god who can dictate a person’s fate however they want, which is completely horrifying and awful and in no way to I trust Once to deal with the horrific implications of everyone literally being puppets in the author’s little world.  Or option two, the rules already established about the book hold up, it changes to reflect your choices, it doesn’t cause them, and if you want a happy ending you have to actually be a decent person for more than 2 weeks and get pissy because you don’t instantly get everything you want after being a violent tyrant for decades, and we have to stick with this stupid storyline for at least another half season for Regina to finally learn this lesson, while watching every character who should be smarter than this play along because the writers refuse to hold Regina accountable for the atrocities they wrote her committing.

 

Either way, I have no interest in watching it for another 11 episodes.

 

I have no interest in watching 3 awesome but completely random female villains play lackies to Rumple’s quest.

 

I have no interest in watching more of Regina’s forced boring romance with a man who was declared her soulmate by literal magic and the show has never bothered actually showing us why they even like each other much less supposedly love each other.

 

For a long time the only thing keeping me watching this show has been Captain Swan, but usually the other stuff isn’t an active deterrent.  Like, nothing else really interests me enough that I’d go out of my way to watch it if it weren’t for Emma and Killian, but it doesn’t usually make me rage either.  But this is becoming unbearable.  This is Lost Girl season 4 levels of incompetent writing.  And we’re not even really getting decent CS payoff anymore apparently.  Yeah, the kiss was hot and all, but can we get, I don’t know, some conversation?  Maybe half a second to talk about the fact that he was magically tortured and controlled for days to weeks and Emma almost lost him, something previously established as a big fear for her?  No?  No.  We don’t need to see Emma realize or react to Killian’s predicament, and we don’t need to see any of the payoff of the emotional arch they set up all half season for these two, because we needed 14,000 scenes of Regina/Robin angst and Emma couldn’t spend more than two seconds with her boyfriend who’s been through trauma and almost died because she has to go do shots with a woman who is nearly constantly emotionally and verbally abusive to her but we’re supposed to find that adorable and funny and isn’t it so sweet that Emma wants to be Regina’s support system at the cost of all her other relationships or storylines.

 

Gag.

 

Imma need some of the awesome fiction writers in this fandom to step up and write some better resolutions than what we got on screen last night.  Because Jen and Colin’s awesome chemistry can’t make up for completely shitty useless writing.

 

The sad thing is I'm sure I'll be here come March.  I wish I knew how to quit this show.

[Helena Dax]

I know that they believe the magic but I still find it odd that after getting shoved across the town line, no one ever tries to walk back across.

 

I think it's obvious for them that it isn't  going to work. Rumple couldn't even see Belle from that side of the line; no reason to believe they'll be able to see Storybrooke.

 

Outlaw Queen isn't my favourite pairing at all  but I don't understand why Robin is getting so much hate. Marian was dead.  It wasn't a misunderstanding, she wasn't just mostly dead; she was really gone. So when he fell for Regina, he was a free man.  He couldn't have known that  Emma would change the past and bring Marian to our world. Then he tried to do the "honourable" thing, but he couldn't because he didn't love Marian anymore,  he was in love with Regina. While I think it's  unrealistic to have someone falling  in love with the person who killed his/her significant other, Robin hasn't done anything wrong. 

 

Loved to see Belle realizing she was absolutely  wrong about Rumple.

 

Until proven wrong, I choose to believe that  the writers are aware that Regina had free will and she did the things she did because she wanted to. I think this whole "let's find the author and  change our destiny"  will show Rumple, Regina and the others that it doesn't work that way. But the journey will bring Regina her happy ending. Not so sure about Rumple.

 

I  agree that Hook's plot deserved a better ending. He's totally my favourite character and I was hoping for a lot of good Hook/Emma scenes this season. 

 

Didn't Emma kill Maleficent years ago?

Edited December 15, 2014 by Helena Dax

[Dani-Ellie]

Then he tried to do the "honourable" thing, but he couldn't because he didn't love Marian anymore,  he was in love with Regina. While I think it's  unrealistic to have someone falling  in love with the person who killed his/her significant other, Robin hasn't done anything wrong.

 

For me, personally? It's not so much the circumstance as how he reacted to it. First he swears loyalty to Marian because she is his wife. Admirable. Then she ends up frozen and he can't True Love's Kiss her because he no longer loves her. Understandable. But instead of maybe trying, for the sake of his son, to find another way to unfreeze Marian, he chases after Regina. He pulls her away from her attempts at trying to unfreeze his wife because he needs her. He confesses he loves Regina over his wife's frozen body. In a real-life equivalent, Marian is in a coma and her husband confesses he loves another woman -- the woman who was responsible for separating them in the first place -- in his wife's hospital room. It just left a bad taste in my mouth.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[RadioGirl27]

This episode was really disappointing. Too much stuff going on without any kind of satisfaying resolution. The flashback was way too long, the Arendelle scene pointless and everything about Outlaw Queen (Maid Marian deserves so much better than that douche) and Operation Stupidity was ridiculous and contrived. I didn't expected anything too big between Hook and Emma (no TLK or I love you), but the lack of pay off to the fact that he almost died was really frustrating.

Things I liked: the acting of both Colin and Robert, Belle finally gets a spine and Cruella, she seems fun.

[stealinghome]

Outlaw Queen isn't my favourite pairing at all  but I don't understand why Robin is getting so much hate. Marian was dead.  It wasn't a misunderstanding, she wasn't just mostly dead; she was really gone. So when he fell for Regina, he was a free man.  He couldn't have known that  Emma would change the past and bring Marian to our world. Then he tried to do the "honourable" thing, but he couldn't because he didn't love Marian anymore,  he was in love with Regina. While I think it's  unrealistic to have someone falling  in love with the person who killed his/her significant other, Robin hasn't done anything wrong.

Off the top of my head:

 

-Robin doesn't care at all that Regina was the one to murder Marian. Literally, the fact that his "bold and audacious" girlfriend of 24 hours was the one to kill his beloved wife before Emma changed the timeline did not give him so much as a half-second of pause. He does not care at all. I understand that we can't help our feelings, but if Robin still finds himself ~irresistibly drawn to Regina, he should at least be horrified intellectually, and ashamed, and have a whole bunch of mixed emotions. But, nope. He doesn't care at all. I mean, that is so far beyond the pale he has actually tipped into cardboard cutout/psychopath status. What human being shacks up with the person who murdered their spouse and doesn't give it a half-second of thought???

-Robin's whole "I love you but I can't be with you because I have a ~code" is the stupidest thing ever. It was stupid with David and Mary MArgaret in S1, and it's stupid now. It's called divorce, people.

-But more than that, "I love you but I can't be with you because I have a ~code...but I'm still going to follow you around town like it's my job, telling you I love you at every turn" is just the height of dickery. He's become That Guy. It's just the height of asshole.

-Then, of course, there's the way that his ~code doesn't extend to crypt sex while his wife is in a coma. (Or confessing his love to Regina above the body of his stricken, in-a-coma wife.) But once she's out of the coma, nope, his ~code is back on!...

-...until Marian tells him he can peace out, and then he's like "CODE WHAT CODE, LET'S GET IT ON LIKE DONKEY KONG IN THE CRYPT AGAIN!" No. It doesn't work like that. Either you have a code or you don't, but you don't ditch it on and off when it's convenient or inconvenient or someone else says it's okay.

(-And also the fact that he was content to leave his wife in a coma to go, what, gaze at Regina's storybook for half an episode.)

 

As Dani-Elle said, it's not the circumstances, but it's the fact that he's acted like a huge jackass every step of the way.

[Helena Dax]

For me, personally? It's not so much the circumstance as how he reacted to it. First he swears loyalty to Marian because she is his wife. Admirable. Then she ends up frozen and he can't True Love's Kiss her because he no longer loves her. Understandable. But instead of maybe trying, for the sake of his son, to find another way to unfreeze Marian, he chases after Regina. He pulls her away from her attempts at trying to unfreeze his wife because he needs her. He confesses he loves Regina over his wife's frozen body. In a real-life equivalent, Marian is in a coma and her husband confesses he loves another woman -- the woman who was responsible for separating them in the first place -- in his wife's hospital room. It just left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

But Marian isn't his wife anymore. She died and  that  means  their marriage is over (till death do  us apart).  To me, he was doing all those things over his ex wife body.

[Dani-Ellie]

The show certainly treated Marian as his wife. Regina said multiple times "you're married," "she's your wife," etc. Robin said multiple times "she's my wife." And the fact remains that if Regina hadn't imprisoned her, Marian more than likely still would be his wife.

 

Even still, confessing love of another woman over his ex-wife's body is still kinda grody to me.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[HoodlumSheep]

Didn't Emma kill Maleficent years ago?

Kinda. Apparently she doesn't really die for some reason though. Wasn't Hook the last to see her though when Regina pushed him down into the cavern thingy? So technically he was the last one to see her? Although knowing our luck, the writers will completely forget about that encounter.

[Amerilla]

While Emma and Regina were snickering about how happy they were that Rumple got defeated, did one of them pause to think of Belle, A HERO, who lost her husband? Maybe the thought could have come through Regina's self pity (I know) and she could have realized that a hero's relationship ended the same day her own did, and in a far more traumatic manner.
Oh, what am I even saying?

 

Yup, you've pretty much nailed it.

 

I found myself hoping Belle remembered to take her cell phone with her so she could call for a ride, because she didn't tell Rumpel to poof the Caddie with them, and I'm pretty sure at this point that neither Snow nor Emma nor Hook would think "um, maybe we should wait and hour or so and then send someone out to see if she needs a lift."

 

If she had to walk all the way home on her high heels, poor woman's going to have spent the entire six weeks soaking her feet in an Epsom salt bath to heal the blisters.

[Shanna Marie]

The analogy Parilla used in an interview while trying to justify the whole thing as not being disrespectful to Marian was the movie Castaway, in which Tom Hanks's character's wife had married someone else while he was missing. However:

 

• His wife had not just started dating someone new two days before her long-lost husband turned up
• She didn't then learn that her new boyfriend had been responsible for her husband being lost at sea
• She didn't swear she was going to stay with her husband once he returned because she wanted to honor her marriage vows
• She didn't then start sleeping with the new guy while her husband was in the hospital in the aftermath of his ordeal

 

They had multiple times when they could have moved this relationship in a non-icky direction, and every single time they seemed to aim for maximum ick -- they made Regina responsible for Marian's disappearance, had Regina treat Marian horribly, and we never did get a single word of apology from Regina to Marian, did we? Even when Marian is essentially giving her blessing for her husband to go off with her former torturer and generally being awesome and understanding, Regina never said a single word about her role in ruining Marian's marriage -- not by sleeping with her husband, but for separating her from her husband in the first place. They told us what an important role Marian played in Robin's life and what she sacrificed to be with him. They had the relationship between Marian and Robin start just a day or so before Marian returned, rather than it having been an established relationship (and it even sounded like they didn't start sleeping together until after Marian's return). They had them start sleeping together while Marian was essentially in a coma after Robin had sworn to stay true to his wife. Marian was taken out of the picture before Robin even had a chance to try being with his wife.

 

If they wanted me to feel sad that this relationship couldn't work out for Regina and to feel like some great, epic love was thwarted, they did it wrong.

[Mari]

Yup, you've pretty much nailed it.

 

I found myself hoping Belle remembered to take her cell phone with her so she could call for a ride, because she didn't tell Rumpel to poof the Caddie with them, and I'm pretty sure at this point that neither Snow nor Emma nor Hook would think "um, maybe we should wait and hour or so and then send someone out to see if she needs a lift."

 

If she had to walk all the way home on her high heels, poor woman's going to have spent the entire six weeks soaking her feet in an Epsom salt bath to heal the blisters.

They should've checked on Belle.  Hopefully, it did happen in Offscreenville.  (And, hopefully, Belle had a pair of those "instaflats" tucked into her pocket somewhere, because, yes, her poor, poor feet.)

 

But Belle's never been particularly social.  I don't mean she's unfriendly or a hermit--but, she seems to live a good chunk of her life in her own head and dream world.  She could simply  be one of those people who do not want others around when she's hurting, especially since she knows how close some would be to a "What did you expect, dummy?"  (I have trouble imagining Emma or Snow saying that, but I can imagine Regina saying her version of it.)

[snarkastic]

A review I read was wondering if Cruella can shapeshift into a Dalmatian puppy. I never thought of that as a possibility.

 

Season 4 ends with Archie finding Cruella in dalmatian form and calls her Perdita. She gets her happy ending with Pongo. Because villains, too, deserve happy endings.