S04.E12: Heroes And Villains

[shapeshifter]

If Belle "defeated" the dark one, doesn't that make her the new dark one? I kept waiting for a shot of the dagger changing from Rumplestilskin to Belle.

An evil Belle. That could be interesting!

I was wondering about that, but then recalled the dagger turns the person evil when that person kills the holder of the dagger with the dagger.

ETA: insertwordhere not only has a cooler screen name than mine, but likely a faster Internet connection too. ;>)

I never minded Elsa always wearing the same sky blue dress (TV show characters frequently have "uniforms" so viewers can remember them) but when she hugged Emma before stepping into the portal, I did wonder if they ever washed it, and, if not, if that was a really ripe smelling hug.

Edited December 15, 2014 by shapeshifter

[Writing Wrongs]

Why did Gold need to have that (awful CG) broom walking through town instead of just animating it when they got to the house? Lame.

 

Glad Robin is gone. How can he be called honorable when he was sexing Regina while his wife was a popsicle?

 

Hans and his brothers must have been pushovers.

 

Was that puppy supposed to be Pongo?

 

Gin and desperation. Ha!

[Emma]

Emma knowing that something was wrong with Hook, Hook grasping her arm as a plea for her recognize that he was not okay, and him telling her to just put his heart in gently while she just shoves it in like she means it?! My Captain Swan loving heart was cheering. And holy moly, that kiss was hot. (I am, however, assuming they had a quick bit of coffee in the back before she went out to drink with Regina.)

 

That's going to be my head cannon until proven otherwise.

[Worsel]

 

I wish she had commanded Rumple not to harm Storybrooke or its people ever again. 

 

 

Well, you know that would have been too easy, then we wouldn't have rejected desperate Rumple returning to Storybrook with more villains.

 

Oh, I forgot to add - loved seeing Rumple reduced to taking the bus, his cadillac is still in Storybrooke!  And the cane is back...

Edited December 15, 2014 by Worsel

[ABitOFluff]

Ok, I didn't hate it, but like most episodes, there were a lot of things I wish they'd done differently.

 

I'm glad Emma finally realized that there was something off with Hook, and the way he grabbed her arm to signal how right she was. Wish there would have been more payoff with the heart situation, like Emma actually being the one to get his heart back. Having it just casually tossed back to him was weird to say the least.

 

Speaking of, apparently, restoring someone's heart is like ripping off a Bandaid. Still, it was cute the way she shoved it in, and the kiss was hot even if it was cut way too short. My headcanon is going to fill in all the stuff that happened before Emma left to go have shots with Regina.

 

Glad to see Belle finally grow a spine.The scene between her and Rumple at the town line was one of the highlights. Cue Nancy Sinatra's "These Boots Are Made for Walking".

 

Waaaay to much Regina/Robin angst as predicted. Glad Robin is gone, but I wanted Marian to leave Storybrook and open up an archery camp for young women.

 

Again, I'm going to miss the Arendelle gang. Wow, maybe Anna is the smartest person there for being the only one to know how much of a liar Rumple is. (And I'm ashamed to say I watched Frozen on demand the other day. so I remembered that wonderful smell was...CHOCOLATE!).

 

Cruella does seem very much out of place in the Enchanted Forest, but I think I'm going to love her. Liking Ursula so far too.

 

Not feeling this author/Operation Mongoose storyline at all.

 

Overall, as infurating as this show can be, I'm going to miss it during the hiatus. Come on March!

[HoodlumSheep]

This finale was definitely more of a set up for 4b, but I enjoyed it. It was less of a mess than I worried it would be. Colin was right, I am intrigued about how 4b is going to play out.

All hail Marian, queen of everything! She deserves so much better, but I liked how she got to be the one to end things.

Bravo to Belle; you may not be one of my favorites, but I was definitely cheering you on when you kicke Rumple to the curb!

The frozen and sorcerer's hat plots were tied up neatly in a bow. My question is, what becomes of the hat?

I actually liked the Rumple/Regina queen. Even Rumple understands that you have to grab hold of your happy ending with your own two hands (even though his way and line of thinking is completely twisted). Regina needs to play catch up. Now Emma's gettig involved with Operation Mongoose? Blah.

Love of henry mentioned all the bad things happening to Regina, but failing to mention all the horrible things she did to others.

So the #EvilTrio were all apprentices to Rumple? Or did I miss something?

Timeline people do your stuff!

I vote we keep Cruella. Loved her snark. She should find Bo Peep and they can go be awesome together.

So Rumple looks like he really is forming Rumple's Angels. I hope people on tumblr make gifs parallelling his "I can change" stuff with his past stuff with Nealfire.

40 minutes in, and I was thinking, "something's missing here.." And then Snow and Charming made their first appearance, and then it clicked.

Emma jamming Killy's heart back into his chest was cute, you could see some more darkness floating around in it this time, but it's still quite red.

Just goes to show you how smart Gold can be; he came up with that author back up plan pretty quickly.

Bravo to Colin on that diner scene, when Rumple was controlling Killy. That was pretty creepy--you could tell something was horribly off with Killian the moment he entered the diner.

Potentially, Rumple could still try the same stunt again, because he could get a hold of the dagger, hat, and Killy's heart again if no one's being cautious.

Edited December 15, 2014 by HoodlumSheep

[Lila82]

Good god, Belle's boobs were literally touching her chin during the kidnapping scenes.  I guess someone's cleavage had to take over once the Snow Queen vacated the premises.

 

David and Mary Margaret: maternity/paternity leave or have the writers run out of stories to tell?  They're basically cardboard cutouts that show up occasionally to dispense terrible advice.

 

 

Much as I'm annoyed by Regina refusing to take responsibility for mass murder, I do like how far she and Emma have come in mothering their son.  What a weird sentence that is.

 

 

 I miss the core characters.  The "Frozen" crew were adorable, but the main cast have become glorified extras on their own show.

[OnceUponAJen]

That's going to be my head cannon until proven otherwise.

I hate, REALLY hate to.say this, but coffee time may be one of those Offscreensville things. Dammit.

[KingOfHearts]

They left this unresolved... is the portal door always going to be there now, or did it disappear? It seems it was there the whole time, just hidden.

Edited December 15, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

They really need to stop with the whole heart ripping after this.

 

So the show is skipping ahead 6 weeks already.  Rumple still has to find two more meanies.  It took him six weeks to find the first one.  I'm guessing by the time they get back about 3 months will have lapsed?

[ParadoxLost]

The writing, directing, and editing for this episode was hellishly bad. 

They spent too much time setting up 4B and pretty much convinced me that 4B is going to be a disaster.  They should have stuck with the type of simplicity that had Elsa walking away from the urn in 3B. 

 

I think it was a mistake showing Rumpel interacting with Cruella, Malificent, and Ursala in the EF.  Unforgivable to go back a second time.  They should have used some other contrivance to show Belle the truth.  Rumpel should have located Cruella, the most non-EF villain, in our world with no build up.  Save Maleficent and Ursala for 4B.  Can you imagine the midseason speculation if "modern" villains are running around the real world without foreknowledge that Rumpel sent them there. 

 

I need to give a little extra time to dissing the editors.  The last act after the final commercials was an offense against television. They should have reordered that montage.  Having Frozen first was a mistake because my reaction went from 'I like the Frozen stuff' to 'this is OUAT not Frozen' in one commercial break.  I don't think the Captain Swan to Emma/Regina scene would have felt so much like Emma ditching Hook mid make out if they hadn't been back to back that way. Editing fail.  I'm half convinced that someone mentioned that they forgot to put Hook's heart back in and it was a last minute addition.

Edited December 15, 2014 by ParadoxLost

[stealinghome]

They left this unresolved... is the portal door always going to be there now, or did it disappear? It seems it was there the whole time, just hidden.

Right! And does anyone from the Enchanted Forest want to go back? Because it's just a short boat ride to the Forest from there....

[Whodunnit]

 

Farewell to you, also, Romantic Plot Tumor.  I mean Robin Hood and Marian.  Enjoy life in Maine.  Just avoid Haven, Chester's Mill, Derry, Castle Rock, and Cabot Cove.

Amen to that, Bmore. Also, they should avoid Innsmouth, Maine. I guess Maine is a dangerous place.

[Worsel]

Right! And does anyone from the Enchanted Forest want to go back? Because it's just a short boat ride to the Forest from there....

Maybe they got too used to modern conveniences and would rather have electricity than a cold stone castle or mud hut.  

Why else would the Sorcerer have a house in Storybrook?  He must like it better than the Enchanted Forest.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Worsel

[Eegah]

So, we now have a story about searching for the author of a book, which details all the weird stuff going on in a small town, of which numerous copies exist.

 

Anyone else getting the feeling that the show is starting to rip off Gravity Falls? Although I guess they could also incorporate that if they wanted with it being on the Disney Channel.

[MaiLuna]

I liked the Queens of Darkness. I liked Rumpel telling Regina to stop moping. I LOVED Belle ordering Rumpel to leave. You go girl!

 

I'd have preferred more Frozen back in Arendelle than so much OQ. But at least he's gone. Though now we'll see Regina moping even more.

 

Emma left her boyfriend who had been tortured for weeks, after he kissed her like that, literally one flight of stairs away from his room, to go have shots with Regina?! I can't even begin to explain how underwhelming the ending to CS was. We didn't even get to see Emma reacting to Hook being heartless! Not even one line! WTH show. They better release a deleted scene tomorrow.

 

ETA: why even give him the line "I told you I was a survivor" like he was reassuring her, when we never even saw her being upset or sad about him almost being killed (while she was powerless right in front of it happening!) SMH.

Edited December 15, 2014 by MaiLuna

[mustbekarma]

I loved that Belle stood up to Gold, but I was equally ticked because she came to the wrong conclusions. That gauntlet showed a person's weakness, which in the hero's case, is usually the loved ones. Which makes that gauntlet pretty pointless. But Rumpelstiltskin's weakness is the dagger. Duh. Anyone can enslave him with it. Belle took Rumpel having the gauntlet as proof that he didn't love her. However, the flashback showed he just stole it back. Rumpelstiltskin really did trade that gauntlet for Belle's life. In this case, Gold was telling the truth.

 

Considering Belle's wrong conclusions led to a great outcome, saving Hook, I'm not complaining too awfully much.

 

So Regina doesn't get her happy ending with Robin Hood. I cheered. I was so pissed when Marian said she'd stand aside. I get she doesn't want Robin to stay with her out of obligation, but I still can't stand the idea of Robin Hood without Maid Marian. Besides, Regina hasn't earned a damn happy ending. Although she may have taken one baby step towards redemption tonight. Maybe.

 

This was such a cheerful episode to have before the holidays.

[Rumsy4]

Right! And does anyone from the Enchanted Forest want to go back? Because it's just a short boat ride to the Forest from there....

 

Nobody cares about the peasants. Nobody.

 

The OQ and Operation Mongoose stuff was soooo boring,. And where is the Sorceror?? 

[allyj128]

Okay, whine first: I really, really need for someone to address the Echo Chamber of Lunacy for the nuttiness it is. First off, Henry, lots of bad things did not happen to your mother in the book. She caused lots of bad things for other people. I'm really hoping that the hundreds of potential storybooks are because each person's life has hundreds of different outcomes and thus each "character" can intersect any other "character"'s life in hundreds of different ways because I just cannot. The book is a record of events. The book is a record of events. Henry, in the very first episode of this show, was talking about how all the stories in the book actually happened. That is the whole basis for this show. These characters are real people who had these things really happen to them. If this show gives them the "I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way" treatment, it undermines the entire premise of the show.

 

 

Emma knowing that something was wrong with Hook, Hook grasping her arm as a plea for her recognize that he was not okay, and him telling her to just put his heart in gently while she just shoves it in like she means it?! My Captain Swan loving heart was cheering. And holy moly, that kiss was hot. (I am, however, assuming they had a quick bit of coffee in the back before she went out to drink with Regina.)

 

 

PREACH. I was so FREAKING ANGRY when I heard those comments. Ugh. Just last season in Neverland she claimed to have NO regrets at what she's done. 

 

Ugh. Sorry. I have some Regina rage. I think she's made some change, and did the right thing by saving Marian and sending Robin packing, but she still has a long way to go.

 

Well done, Belle, for finally living up to your Disney cartoon version and being strong and badass. I finally like you again. Way to force Rumple out of town and take back your life. That was awesome to watch.

 

My Captain Swan-loving heart was cheering, too. And my shipper heart is already plotting the sheer amount of fic we'll be writing and seeing this hiatus. 

Edited December 15, 2014 by allyj128

[ParadoxLost]

You know what is really going to annoy me.  I'm now about half way to shrugging and saying 'you want Regina redeemed, fine I'll believe that if you just make her happy ending with someone charismatic that is not Robin Hood.' 

 

But her final scene with Rumpel was totally foreshadowing Regina turning on Emma, who has joined Operation Mongoose, and joining the Villains in trying to get happy endings in a way that ensures that the heroes can't have their happy endings. And no one will notice that this is what the original curse was about for Regina in the first place.

[TwistedandBored]

Pretty underwhelmed by the mid-season finale. Everything was soo rushed.

 

CaptainSwan being rushed. No emotional fallout or declarations of love. Just a quick kiss

 

I love Marian. I am glad she stated out right how she doesn't want to be an obligation but instead chosen. Too bad she would be stuck with that douchebag Robin now. It funny that everyone thinks Robin would be the one suffering when in actuality it is Marian who would have to put up with the guy she loves pining for someone else. Hope that changes soo and she is free of him. 

 

Queens of Darkness more like Minions of Rumpelstiltskin. And, wasn't Ursula a thousand year old Sea Goddess!? I was thinking she would be more powerful that that! 

 

Best moment of the episode was when Bell got her grove back. Loved her letting Rumple have it. I have waited all season to see that happen. However, I feel like the reason Belle is more sleepy lately might be because she is pregnant. I am just saying! Also, love Rumple. He is probably the most entertaining when is being all villain. Can't wait to see more of that!

[Notwisconsin]

I figure that Regina put a "forgive me" spell on the town.

[ParadoxLost]

Queens of Darkness more like Minions of Rumpelstiltskin.

 

I can't tell you how annoyed I'm getting with this.  It was bad enough making Regina and Wicked Witch his students and dupes. 

Edited December 15, 2014 by ParadoxLost

[BoPeeps]

Too many characters, too many plot lines.

It's turned into ADHD Family Hour. Hurry up while drawing out less significant scenes so that you can totally shortchange the ones having been built up for ever.

I'm rather saddened by the whole thing. I need a Snow "hope" talk. Or maybe a Long Island Iced Tea!

Belle...OK, way cool! Well done, finally. One of the better 3 minutes in the show while everyone but Robin (still a scumbag) Hood got treated like a flash of SNeak Peek. (did they forget that this was the actual show?)

Did I mention too many characters and too many stories being told? Can't get emotional over scenes that unfold while you blink.

Writers on overdose of Speed.

Viewers getting short changed and played as badly as Storybrooke geniuses were tooled by Gold.

While moments like Belle delivering exactly what the weasel Gold deserved were extremely satisfying, once again many of us are left wondering...just why does Hook care so much for such a pointedly UNsultry lover?

(Psst...to many characters and too many plotlines)

None of the three new villains seem very powerful or interesting. One alone should be able to strike fear in us, but three were still underwhelming. Even in a better costume, Maleficent is not nearly as potent as she deserves to be. They have underplayed her horribly.

Blank books??????? How totally devastating to the original magic of the first one. Really sucks the uniqueness right out of the soul of the series.

To switch to some positivity...I am supremely glad Rumple got his just desserts, and that Belle did the serving...and still courageous and passionate in the face of death Hook got his heart back. The one-liner crew had some good fun. ("Step stool so you can look me in the eye when you insult me" Pah!!!!)Roland had a cameo, Elsa and Emma got a poignant farewell. Hook got a chance to emote and plant a steamy one on Emma, and Robin Hood is temporarily Gone.

[TheRealWendy]

I hate, REALLY hate to.say this, but coffee time may be one of those Offscreensville things. Dammit.

 

*moves to Offscreensville* That kiss was hot. 

 

I really loved this episode and genuinely squealed like the three little pigs when Belle showed up and kicked serious ass. It also helped that they showed how much Rumple cared about Belle in the Fairyback scene with the 3 villains. I was invested in these two crazy kids, and then ship go boom. 

[Leather Jacket]

i'm also really glad they added Michael Socha to this show for the purposes of standng around awkwardly at the town line, pretending not to watch Robin and Regina's goodbye.  Great use of your cast all around tonight guys.  It's never been more clear to me that these guys used to write for Lost.

[Shanna Marie]

I was joking when I said in the spoiler thread earlier in the week that the episode would be twenty minutes of Regina crying over Robin and then everything else would have to fit into the remaining time, but it looks like I was right. Between that and the silly book plot and Emma caring more about doing shots with Regina than about her boyfriend who just spent days being tortured, I have to say that if these writers have any health concerns, it'll take Regina's proctologist to examine and diagnose them. Do they seriously look at this stuff and think it's good, or are they trapped in an echo chamber with sycophants?

 

On the other hand, Belle may be my new favorite character if she sticks to her guns. She had such a wonderful stand up and cheer moment there when she kicked Rumple's ass out of town. I was so terrified that she would pull him back from the brink with her love and save the day that way, but calling him out on his crap was soooo much better.

 

I don't care if Cruella fits into this world. I already love her. I want her to be my new best friend. We can hang out and drink and be snarky together.

 

Wow. So. Um. We get all of that built up drama about Hook's heart being taken, and the most we get out of him and Emma afterward is a quick hey-let's-shove-this-back-in-so-I-can-go-take-some-shots scene? Not even an "I love you?" Pardon my French, but that's bullshit. Way to build up a storyline and not deliver, writers.

And then there's this. They managed to entirely miss every ounce of potential inherent in this situation. He managed to send a signal to Emma that something was wrong, but we saw nothing of her worrying about that or doing anything about it. Her realization of what was wrong once she heard what Anna had to say happened offscreen. We didn't get to see her reaction to his plight. She didn't have a chance to fear for his life. We didn't get to see the immediate aftermath in the tower. And then after all the talk about surviving, when she did almost lose him, she runs off to drink with Regina instead of clinging to him for at least a little while. The various versions in my head were all so much better.

 

Rumple was keeping the dagger in a place Belle could just easily find? Lame.

It was only easy to find because she had the gauntlet. I don't think he was keeping it anywhere. He was using the dagger in the tower. The gauntlet must have led her to the tower. She grabbed the dagger while he was busy with Hook's heart.

 

I am, however, assuming they had a quick bit of coffee in the back before she went out to drink with Regina.

I'm not. I'd hate to think that after their first (presumably) coffee together, especially after nearly losing him when he could have probably used some serious holding, she'd want to go anywhere for quite some time.

[TwistedandBored]

I can't tell you how annoyed I'm getting with this.  It was bad enough making Regina and Wicked Witch his students and dupes. 

 

Yeah. That was lame really. I was soo hoping for these woman to be more powerful than they have been portrayed.

 

Ursula's outfit was soo horrible. I mean wordrobe must be smoking to make her wear something like that. The green color clashed with the actress coloring. If I remember Ursula she used look like purple and wear black. Why not give her an outfit that has both colors?

[KingOfHearts]

 

Queens of Darkness more like Minions of Rumpelstiltskin.

They prefer to be called "Rumple's Angels".

 

Maleficent transforming from a swarm of crows was a nice touch. I didn't care for Ursula's outfit either, but Cruella's wardrobe was one of my favorite costumes the show has ever done. Maleficent was... Maleficent. She looked decent, and remarkably like Angelina Jolie as others have said.

Edited December 15, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[stealinghome]

Yeah, Ursula's outfit was terrible. Just awful. The other Queens had much, much better clothing. It's amazing how much KBvS looked like Angelina Jolie in the Maleficent gear.

[El Seed]

So Rumple's now a pimp? Really? I'm not feeling it. 

 

Well, you can't spell "pimp" without "imp."

 

...I'll see myself out.

 

*rushes back in* Marian deserves better than that douchebag. Run, Marian, run! Save yourself and Roland! *rushes back out*

[OnceUponAJen]

Cruella really needs her cigarette holder...or did I just miss it? She would look awesome holding that and a martini. Gin and desperation.....

[InsertWordHere]

It was ridiculous that Henry and Hook stood next to each other at the town line and Henry didn't bring up their last interaction in front of Emma. 

Yeah, Ursula's outfit was terrible. Just awful. The other Queens had much, much better clothing. It's amazing how much KBvS looked like Angelina Jolie in the Maleficent gear.

She looked good, but I still prefer her original look. Maybe whatever happens in the EF with the Queens of Darkness is what causes Mal to lighten up a little?

 

ETA: So no one thought to give Robin and Marian some extra clothing before sending them out on their own?

 

insertwordhere not only has a cooler screen name than mine, but likely a faster Internet connection too. ;>)

shapeshifter, I adore your scree name, for real, but you can shapeshift into my screen name if you want! Not sure about the internet  connection, Mr. WordHere is a gamer and he would tell you it's terribly slow all the time LOL.

Edited December 15, 2014 by InsertWordHere

[ParadoxLost]

I know that they believe the magic but I still find it odd that after getting shoved across the town line, no one ever tries to walk back across.

[ParadoxLost]

duplicate

Edited December 15, 2014 by ParadoxLost

[resonance]

I also soooo don't care about Regina and Robin. She deserves better than the pond scum, and Marian deserves WAY better. What happened to his "I live by a code" stuff? Please let him be run over by a bus in Boston. PLEASE.

The irony never fails to amuse me. Because the only thing worse than massacring entire villages is being a sleazy, unfaithful husband!! But NO writers, NO... Regina doesn't deserve a happy ending! Villains don't get happy endings! But she doesn't deserve to have to be with slime of earth Robin either. That's too masochistic(?).

 

 

 

In other news, disappointed they retconned Ursula, who has this awesome, mythical vibe when first introduced. New Ursula is incompetent and not menacing. Also, Cruella isn't a sorceress. Forcing her in feels unnatural. Unsure about Maleficent. Dislike they are working in a team. Reduces each of their notoriety. 

Edited December 15, 2014 by resonance

[Camera One]

Oh grreat, it looks like Operation Mongoose is going to take over the whole show.  As if Regina and Henry buying into it wasn't ridiculous enough, now we have Emma and even worse Rumple and the 3 Stooges of Darkness all buying into it too. 

 

This did not feel like a mid-season finale at all.  Seeing them "resolve" the various subplots from 4A showed how disjointed everything was.

 

Firstly, Frozen.  They are supporting characters, but I can see how to a Frozen fan, that would have been a kinda abrupt ending without much payoff.  Elsa and Emma's goodbye was very nice, but it highlighted how the writing did nothing to cultivate bonds between Elsa and any other character.  Even Snow and Charming were just standing around in the back.  Snow's only heartfelt conversation with Elsa was a deleted scene.  And the last-minute Anna reveal leading to Emma and Snow somehow catching Rumple in the act just in time?  What the hell?   That's an episode or two right there.  It's almost worse than last week with Anna suddenly finding Ingrid's Cave of Solitude.  If they thought Rumple "was playing us the whole time", wouldn't they be a tad worried where Elsa and Kristoff ended up when they walked through the door?  

 

Next Maid Marion and the Ball & Chain.  Weren't they worried they might lose their memories when they cross the line?  I wasn't even sure if that was the case until Marion walked through.  That's how bad the world-building is on this show.  Why do they have their memories?  Why did some parts of Ingrid's spell break (eg. Shattered Sight) while others didn't (Perimeter Spell) while others had residuals (Marion's heart).  How did Emma touching the bubble wall immediately know that "once you cross, there's no coming back"?  Plus I cry foul on that immediately... there's no coming back today, but as Little Orphan Annie will tell us in 4B, tomorrow's a day away.  As usual, it's whatever contrived situation fits the plot.  I still can't believe Marion will need to be saddled with someone who doesn't even love her and was going to choose someone else.  Doesn't anyone else want to leave Storybrooke?  There must be someone.  

 

So what else do we have.  Remember way back in "The Apprentice", one wondered when Emma would learn of Hook's betrayal and whether she would be angry or that might break them up or cause a rift or anything?  No worries there.  Complete non-issue.  

 

And finally, Belle finding out everything.  I didn't find this all that satisfying.  Yes, Rumple lost Belle and he lost his powers but I still didn't think he was all that punished.  I was hoping for a truck to appear and run him over.  So 6 weeks later, he's right back at it, eh?  The whole Belle plot didn't quite make sense either.  A lot of people's stuff ends up at the Shop.  Why suddenly assume Rumple was lying about what happened to the gauntlet?  And Belle decided to try to find Rumple's weakness just for kicks?  Even though 5 minutes ago, she woke up and was delighted at breakfast in bed rather than ask anxiously if everyone in the town is dead?  

 

This episode dialed it up with the eye-rolling moments.  The deux ex machina aka the magic gauntlet appearing at the 5 minute mark.  Robin being called "a man of honor".  Henry's "My mom... lots of bad things happened to her in it."   Uh, like what?

 

As I said in the speculation thread, it's ridiculous they're wasting 3 villains at one go.  Maleficient would have been enough.  I liked the actress in her Maleficient wear more than her previous appearance, and they could have done a better job of exploring her backstory with Aurora Jr. and Aurora Sr., plus her past with Regina and Rumple.  Cruella did seem the most cruel in that scene with the 3 villains, though if they were that evil, they would have killed Belle anyway.  Though they were stupid to think that Rumple wouldn't come after them.  Did Rumple say all three were his apprentices?  Ugh.  

Edited December 15, 2014 by Camera One

[stealinghome]

The irony never fails to amuse me. Because the only thing worse than massacring entire villages is being a sleazy, unfaithful husband!! But NO writers, NO... Regina doesn't deserve a happy ending! Villains don't get happy endings! But she doesn't deserve to have to be with slime of earth Robin either. That's too masochistic(?).

Believe me, I can't believe I feel that mass murderer/rapist/literal destroyer and enslaver of worlds Regina deserves better than Robin Freaking Hood, either. And yet. And yet. Edited December 15, 2014 by stealinghome

[ParadoxLost]

As I said in the speculation thread, it's ridiculous they're wasting 3 villains at one go.  Maleficient would have been enough.

 

Agree that its stupid to waste three villains at once, but with Rumpel in our world they should have just gone with Cruella.  She doesn't fit in the enchanted forest while the others don't fit in our world.  If Cruella is sunk to Ursala's level and working in an animal shelter instead of running some multi-national textile manufacturer I will not be happy.

[thuganomics85]

Finally!  Belle woke up, grew a brain and figured out what an asshole Rumple is, and also grew a backbone, and not only kicked his ass out of the house, but out of Storybrooke!  Beautiful!  Easily the most I ever liked her.  That said, I do wish she thought it through, and maybe gave him a few more orders before the booting.  Like don't ever come back.  And don't try to harm Storybrooke in anyway.  Or, anyone else, for that matter.  Oh, and he can't say "dearie" anymore; that would really kill him!

 

Because, of course, Rumple has a plan.  It sounds like he is going to form some bizarre Charlie's Angles gang with heavy-hitters like Maleficent (welcome back!), Ursula, and Cruelle De Ville (a bit random, but OK.)  I guess they trying to get the big names out to counter the absence of Ingrid/Elizabeth Mitchell.  We'll see, but first impressions were shaky.  The Ursula actress really didn't grab me, and Cruelle was mainly entertaining since I remember the actress from that Dracula show.  Maleficent though, I'm hoping they go somewhere.  I really want Kristen Bauer to just play her like Pam from True Blood, and start bitching everyone out.  She could just take some of her epic slams at Sookie and replace her name with Regina, and I would be set!

 

Speak of the Devil, of course, way too much Regina angst.  They wake-up Marian, and Marian is willing to let Robin decided, so he obviously wants Regina.  But, twist!  Marian will still die if she stays, so they all have to go.  Which means, everyone is all "Poor Regina!", and telling her things can get better.  While, I'm more "Poor Marian", for having to live her life with a man who clearly doesn't appreciate her.  Damn, do I hate almost everything about this.  Not to mention how all they've done with Will is stick him in the background for this plot.  Lame.  Not looking forward to more Operations Mongoose stuff either.

 

Farewell, Frozen crew.  I will miss you, guys.  I just wish we actually to see them take back the palace, and Anne punch out Hans!  But, at leas they got a happy ending.  They deserved it.  Thanks again, for making this season entertaining and better then it should have been, Elsa, Anna, and Kristoff!

 

Glad Hook got his heart back, and Emma seemed understanding.  Too bad she apparently quit their make out sessions, to go do shots with Regina.  Poor Hook.

 

Wow, I don't think Snow and Charming were on screen for even a minute.  At least we got a brief, background shot of Charming hugging Anna good-bye.  That continuity is impressive for this show!

 

So, yeah, despite watching Rumple fall hard, I wasn't a fan of this episode.  Already missing Ingrid and the Frozen crew.

Edited December 15, 2014 by thuganomics85

[HeimrArnadalr]

Well, I liked this episode. Rumple's speech to Regina in her car echoed my thoughts pretty closely, namely, you're responsible for getting your own happy ending. Of course now there's apparently authorial fiat against that so... whoopee.

 

A bittersweet ending to Frozen's tale on OUAT. I first saw Frozen one year ago today so this was well-timed. I was somewhat disappointed that we didn't see them actually taking back Arendelle but that's where fanfiction can come in. I didn't expect them to actually show the wedding on this show and I'm actually rather surprised they got this close.

 

Belle... at last she sees the light. Well done there. Rumple stumbling after crossing the line was a nice touch.

 

Marian's situation, however, was extremely contrived. It hasn't even been a minute and her heart is frozen already? I seem to recall her having more time before Regina pulled it out in the first place. Meh. She should've taken Roland and gone to Arendelle. I hear they have chocolate.

 

 

They left this unresolved... is the portal door always going to be there now, or did it disappear? It seems it was there the whole time, just hidden.

I sure hope it's going to be there. As long as it is Elsa and Anna can come visit. Realistically, though, the mansion will probably never be mentioned again after the end of 4B (although Emma needs her own place...).

 

I loved that Belle stood up to Gold, but I was equally ticked because she came to the wrong conclusions. That gauntlet showed a person's weakness, which in the hero's case, is usually the loved ones. Which makes that gauntlet pretty pointless. But Rumpelstiltskin's weakness is the dagger. Duh. Anyone can enslave him with it. Belle took Rumpel having the gauntlet as proof that he didn't love her. However, the flashback showed he just stole it back. Rumpelstiltskin really did trade that gauntlet for Belle's life. In this case, Gold was telling the truth.

 

Considering Belle's wrong conclusions led to a great outcome, saving Hook, I'm not complaining too awfully much.

Rumple also described it as leading to the thing the person loves most, which of course he sees as that person's greatest weakness. The fact that it lead Belle to the dagger indicated that he loves the dagger, in particular the power the dagger gives him, more then he loves her, which is the opposite of what he's been telling her.

 

Well, here's to Galavant and 4B. Looking forward to Gin and Desperation. 

[Shanna Marie]

I'm sure there are some people who are enjoying the Robin and Regina stuff, but I can't imagine any professional writer looking at the way this went and thinking it was actually good, even if they were Regina worshipers.

 

It's bad for Regina that the guy she's apparently fated to be with is such a slime that he ping-pongs between his long-lost wife and the woman who was the reason she was lost and who had to have someone else tell him to get off his ass and do something to save his son's dying mother. It's bad for Marian that she's stuck with a husband who'd rather be with someone else but was forced to go with her. And it's bad for Robin that they've utterly ruined a character who is supposed to be awesome. It's not satisfying for anyone.

 

And then it's led to the godawful Operation Mongoose plot, in which these idiots all now seem to think that rewriting the book -- which records events that have already happened -- will change their outcomes. You know how to change your outcome? Do different things. There's no guarantee the ending will be happy, but if you've made the right choices, you'll feel better about yourself even if you didn't get what you wanted.

 

Would Regina really have been able to be happy with Robin, knowing the decision-making process he went through and knowing that he was screwing over an honorable woman who had done absolutely nothing wrong? Not to mention that she was actually a victim of Regina's circumstances. If Regina hadn't captured her and thrown her in the dungeon, then Marian wouldn't have gone missing for Robin to think she was lost and fall for someone else. Do these writers not realize how gross that is? Do they really think this is romantic? If so, I feel very sorry for their wives, and they might want to keep some good PIs on speed dial.

[Camera One]

Strangely, Regina was actually one of the lesser of the problems in this episode for me.  She actually forced herself to take the more moral path.  I am way more annoyed at Rumple now taking on the mantle of Operation Mongoose.  If that isn't a total hammer on Rumple's integrity as a character, I don't know what is.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

 

Strangely, Regina was actually one of the lesser of the problems in this episode for me.  She actually forced herself to take the more moral path.

This. She actually put Roland above herself. Props to her for that. My only gripes were that huge amount of screentime Outlaw Queen took out and her "I did the right thing, therefore I'm miserable" comment. (As if doing the wrong thing made her any less unfortunate.)

 

The twists and cliffhangers tonight would have worked better if Once didn't have such a horrible track record. If Belle stayed independent, if Rumple stayed powerless (at least a long while), if Robin were actually gone for good, and if the Queens of Darkness actually posed a deadly threat, then 4B would be anticipated much more. But I doubt any of that is going to hold for long. I'm looking at the mid-season finales of the last two seasons, and it looks very bleak.

Edited December 15, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

If Belle stayed independent, if Rumple stayed powerless (at least a long while)

 

Well said.  Knowing that these two things especially will not hold true for long really took the sails out of this episode.  

[Trini]

Agree that its stupid to waste three villains at once, but with Rumpel in our world they should have just gone with Cruella.  She doesn't fit in the enchanted forest while the others don't fit in our world.  If Cruella is sunk to Ursala's level and working in an animal shelter instead of running some multi-national textile manufacturer I will not be happy.

 

Yeah, I'm not opposed to Cruella being on the show, but being in the Enchanted Forest and having history with Rumpel? NO.

[Minneapple]

This really felt rushed. No real resolutions. Rushing ahead to set up 4B. I'm really going to miss Frozen and keep ranting for a spinoff, but with these writers? NO THANKS.

 

The "find the author" story reminds me of the "Dan is Gossip Girl" storyline on Gossip Girl. Well, to be fair to Once, nothing was as stupid as Dan being Gossip Girl. But just like GG, Once's "find the author" plot clearly was not thought out from the beginning and the writers made it up to make themselves feel better about their own bad writing. "Bad stuff happened to my mom." Yeah, you know why? BECAUSE IT WAS HER CHOICE TO DO BAD THINGS, THAT'S WHY. Nothing chaps me more than characters who don't own their actions, who are poor victims of circumstance. How about you MAKE BETTER CHOICES and maybe, just maybe, your happy ending will come to you!

 

But it takes a real slimeball to make Regina look good, and I present to you -- ROBIN.

 

Too little Captain Swan and the ending with Hook's heart was too rushed. And now with Frozen leaving...I'm not sure I'm staying. The book plot is going to annoy the hell out of me, I can already tell.

[snarkastic]

Belle mentions that the gauntlet led her to the REAL dagger, but how does she even know about a fake existing? Last she should have seen it, Rumple was 'protecting' her from the Shattered Sight spell with it. (And even if that's a goof, wouldn't she just assume he took the 'real' dagger from her, and that there was no fake?)

[Camera One]

I think someone above explained that the gauntlet led her to Rumple, and she saw *another* dagger beside Rumple, which she assumed was the real one?  

 

How did Rumple come to the conclusion the Sorcerer was the Author of the Book?

[Rick Kitchen]

Damn, if only the portal in the Sorcerer's house had looked more like a blue telephone call box ... But it did look like the Wardrobe into Narnia.

 

They keep talking about people being unable to cross back over the line, but nobody has tried it.

 

"Shall I get a step stool so you can look in my eyes when you talk to me?"

 

What was Gold planning on doing with all of that purple magic and Hook's heart?  I'm a little confused.

 

They left Henry to wander around in a house with an active Portal to other realms?  That can't be a good thing.

 

Isn't Maleficent a pile of dust under the library?