S04.E10: Fall

[Souris]

Wasn't sure where to put this, but Jane Espenson cleared up the ep-numbering confusion on Twitter: "Two hour was all 8. This was 9. 10 next week."

[KR Vermont]

My first impression (after dismissing an image of a cursed lips retread) when seeing Emma feeling something different in Hook's kiss is that he is not himself (more than simply being sans heart). Hook hates that he has these secrets from the woman he loves, that he has to do Rumple's bidding, etc. So it makes sense that his kiss would feel different. Then again, being told it's your last day of life--is there anything preventing him from laying a passionate final kiss on her lips, besides it appearing over the top?

 

If Hook is devilishly handsome, is Kristoff angelically handsome? haha. I find them both appealing, though quite different in looks and character.

Edited December 1, 2014 by KR Vermont

[The13thDoctor]

So the writers are pulling more from the Frozen movie, and what I am noticing is that everyone is ice-olating(kill me later) themselves like Elsa, Emma, and DQ. Could it be that this is what DQ wants? They are isolating themselves out of fear, and maybe this is a time when they really need to be together. I know it didn't help when Anna was cursed, but it's just a thought. 

 

It's obviously a mirror (pun intended) for the characters. All the magic people wanted to be isolated because they were scared of hurting the people they loved, and this spell is causing all the non-magic characters to do the same. I'm excited to see where this goes, especially for characters who have had horrible or no character development this season. It would be nice to break the "perfect love" thing of the Charmings, and you can't shatter Belle's sight more than it already is without a curse. 

 

If the writers can pull it off, the curse will be an excellent way to move the characters forward from their frozen(just kill me) development. If not, it's not like I will be even more disappointed than I already am. 

[AudienceofOne]

Also, did anyone else call foul when Regina was all "You and Henry are the only people who believe in me" to Robin?

 

 

I fast forward any scene with these two sociopaths. I got downright annoyed in this episode that this was the appalling romance they were concentrating on while Killian and Emma were separated because of his lips got cursed... sorry, he lost his heart.

 

I didn't hear what Regina said to Robin because I've learned to sing "Let it Go" at the top of my lungs during any scene between those two in order to prevent nausea attacks.

 

 

I should try that instead. It'll stop my inevitable fast-forward, no rewind, fast-forward again routine.

 

And while Roland was chilling with his mom-sicle, Robin wanted to stay with his bold and audacious, mass-murdering lover.

 

Also, why on Earth did Regina apologise to Henry about Operation Mongoose. I almost felt she was implying this was all happening to her and was just another way the author was screwing her happy ending. Because why else would Henry care at that moment about Operation Mongoose? Even for her that's self absorbed.

 

The Shattered Sight Spell must have hit my house before the show because after seeing this Horrible-Curse-that-will-ultimately-have-no-consequences-and-will-be-over-in-three-seconds, I'm not feeling the desperation the show was trying to sell AT ALL. This show has had 9,234,456 other "Oh NOES! IMPENDING DOOOOM!" moments that never mean a damn thing and are solved in the next episode. So now after crisis number 9,234,457 I just officially don't care. This was just so stupid and just zero drama. I mean, when you've seen 1 curse on this show you've basically seen them all. And as a bonus, we know the outcome too. Because it's ALWAYS THE SAME!

 

 

I must admit I felt the same. I just felt this episode was drraaaaaggging the whole thing out. I wish this had been the two parter, then I wouldn't have felt like I was sitting through 40 minutes of filler before the real episode began.

[Camera One]

The Shattered Sight Spell must have hit my house before the show 

 

They've been releasing flakes of shattered sight glass every time the show airs an episode since at least 2B.  Such an immersive 4D experience that we permanently watch with the same expression that Snow and Charming have at the end.  It's a delayed reaction to the crap they've been given all season.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Camera One

[placate]

What the deal with the guy from Being Human (UK)?  I get he's a merry man but why was he breaking into the library?

[VeryNot]

Tonight, my yelling "you're in a chest at the bottom of the sea, why are you screaming for help?!" was louder than my usual, "why hasn't anyone given Elsa a change of clothes?!"

[ElectricBoogaloo]

First of all, if Regina's magic is strong enough to seal people in, why didn't they just seal people into different rooms in various buildings/houses in Storybrooke to keep them separated from each other until Elsa and Emma could undo the spell?

 

When Mary Margaret said, "Now you know Henry's in a safe place and Regina and the others can take care of themselves," I thought wait, the rest of the town can take care of itself but David and Mary Margaret are locking themselves in jail cells? How does that make sense? And since Mary Margaret said that Henry was going to be in a safe place, i assume that means they knew Regina was going to magically seal him somewhere so why in the hell didn't she seal any of the other people in town?

 

When Regina bitched at Mary Margaret about how it's the mayor's job to make sure everything is up to code, I thought well, Mary Margaret has only been mayor for about a minute so if things aren't up to code it's because the previous mayor aka Regina wasn't making sure that things were up to code.

[buffynut]

Like others, I agree that this week should have been the 2 hour episode, as I enjoyed every minute and wanted more.   Is next week the fall finale?

[Amerilla]

I haven't seen the episode yet and I've only skimmed a couple of posts here, but let me take some educated guesses based on experience:

 

....That the curse moves so slowly that people not only have time to say their goodbyes, but answer all their emails, balance their checkbooks, and clean out their refridgerators before it hits....

 

....That there were happy reunions to parallel the sad farewells....

 

....That Emma tearily called Snowing "Mom" and "Dad" at some point in the episode.....

 

....That Emma and Hook held each other's gaze in what can variously be interpreted as "meltingly romantic" or "like Jen and Colin skipped their morning bran muffins" depending on whether or not you ship them....

 

....That the fairies and dwarves were basically useless....

 

.....Except for the Contrivance Fairy, who sprinkled her dust all over the script to make it fall into line....

 

....That Emma is deemed the only one who can save them, even though there is little or no evidence that she can....

 

How close did I come?

Edited December 1, 2014 by Amerilla

[YaddaYadda]

Okay, so what was it about Hook's kiss that let Emma know something was wrong with him?

 

I thought maybe it was reminiscent for her when she kissed another guy who did not have a heart.  This isn't Emma's first rodeo in that regard, the only thing was that she didn't believe back then and they've brought up Graham like twice this season already, so maybe there's a connection there.

 

Seriously though, there was a lot of stuff in this episode, but the one thing I can't get over is that the Jolly Roger is with Blackbeard and for some reason the guy is working for Hans.  I'll be in the minority of one and say that Hook did not trade his ship to Blackbeard.

 

Also, not because I care because Frozen though I've really enjoyed Kristoff (the actor has some of the best reactions) and Elsa even Hans and his brothers, they're now in control of Arendelle, so are we getting something about Elsa taking her kingdom back or something?

[Tiger]

Like others, I agree that this week should have been the 2 hour episode, as I enjoyed every minute and wanted more.   Is next week the fall finale?

Fall Finale airs Dec 14.

[Guest Accused Dingo]

I don't snark on this show as much as some people do. I honestly enjoy it when it fires on all cylinders and don't bother looking for logic for magic. I don't see the point. I think the wishing star was kind of cheesy but in a good way. For a moment I thought that the show was going to connect Arrendel to the Enchanted Forrest by making Granny Anna. Looking back I am not sure if I like the shows version better or mine.

I am looking forward to seeing everyones dark side especialy Snow White (who can be a spoiled bitch) and Robin Hood (what will Regina think of Robin at his darkes?)

Edited December 1, 2014 by Accused Dingo

[PaperScissors]

I enjoyed this one. It's not my favourite of the arc, but it was good. I thought all the actors brought their A game - I don't even like Outlaw Queen but I thought Lana did a great job in their scenes, JMo and Colin are both so fantastic they break my heart, I love Elsa/Anna/Kristoff and Bobby as usual. As for Snowing, their scenes were very touching - Ginny is such a great actress, I wish she had more to do because she can really bring the emotion. 

 

As for Killian and Emma's one scene.... be still my CS heart. I took Emma's reaction to be about her realizing that she loved Killian, though in retrospect I see that it's more likely that it was because she saw something was wrong. Those Captain Swan shipper goggles are permanently welded to my face, so it's hard to see things any other way I'm afraid. ;)

 

A couple things bugged:

 

Since when do Snow and Charming take parenting and leadership advice (in back-to-back episodes) from REGINA?!?  You know, Regina, the one who gaslit her own son for 10 years and who murdered and terrorized Snow's kingdom when she got a chance to rule? I don't disagree with her advice - it would have been the right approach in the season 2 finale, and it was the right approach here - but I would have much preferred Charming to have been the speak that truth. He used to be the pragmatic realist among the pair, after all.

 

So, Heny and Robin are the only ones who believe in you Regina?  How about Snow and Emma, who tell you constantly that they believe in you and want you to be happy? But I guess it's easier to forget about them. And yes, taking Henry with you instead of leaving him with the mom who is IMMUNE is a GREAT IDEA guys (*eyeroll*, though Emma went along with it so she gets an *eyeroll* too). Although i'm sure it was to give Regina-Henry yet another emotional mother-son scene. I don't know why Regina and Henry seems the be the only two getting relationship scenes this season (vs Emma-Henry). It's like the writers can't focus on both Emma-Henry and Regina-Henry scenes in the same season. It's other one or the other. It's odd.

 

I actually didn't mind Regina in this episode, but those few things really bothered me.

 

I'm disappointed no one had any reaction to Elsa basically being selfish and risking the whole town for her sister. It must have been a case of "we-know-it's-going-to-all-work-out-so-lets-not-have-anyone-be-angry-about-it"-itis. I love Elsa, don't get me wrong, but she totally pulled a Hook (as someone else stated above) and no one seemed to care after it was all done, and she was still pure enough of heart to use the wishing star...?

 

I have more thoughts but this is long enough so I'll leave it there.

Edited December 1, 2014 by PaperScissors

[PepperMonkey]

YAAAAY!! Project Mongoose is still on! I was so worried we would not have ENOUGH Regina in the second half of the season...

 

I really wish Elsa, Anna and Kristoff could stay as full time residents of Storybrook, but we know that's not the plan. Yes, yes, I know, Anna monologues too much and/or talks too much in general but I really love the family, including Snow Queen.

 

Rumple can leave any day, take Belle and Henry with him and Snow Queen could be the Big Bad from now on.

I wouldn't miss any of the three of them, but I am seriously going to miss Frozen and Elizabeth Mitchell.

 

Also, still on record as saying, if they kill off Hook, I'm out. The Charming's "romance" is not enough to keep me on board.

[kili]

When Regina was gassing on to Snow about how she as Mayor has to keep things like the Mines in proper order, all I could think of is that those are the same mines her own son and Dr. Hopper nearly died in. Snow's comeback was pretty awesome too.

 

Poor Killian, his heart is carried around in a briefcase. He doesn't even rate a box. It is even a soft-sided briefcase. I hope nobody sits on it and accidentally crushes it. Although, it would kind of serve Rumple right if his curse was ruined because Belle sat on that rare ingredient and spoiled it.

 

Why are the fairies still dressed as nuns? Can't they get some new outfits?

 

How does the hat know when it should re-box itself? It sat alone in a room for a while and here it stayed active until Belle finally decided to take a break. Does it stay active if a magical being is within X feet of it? Or are these not the droids...er...questions...I'm looking for?

 

Anna was absolutely adorable trying to do her wedding vows before she died and Kristoff proved even more optimistic than her by not letting her finish them because they were going to get saved. The physics of the trunk they were in makes no sense, but I loved them in there so I'll let it pass. I kept expecting Anna's hair to start glowing though, because it was very much a scene from Tangled.

 

LOL Blackbeard. You learned some of the Evil Overlord lessons (contrived ways of killing people don't always work), but you don't put it into practice. Why not just stab those two and watch them bleed out before you toss them overboard? Then they can't escape like you did and they did.

 

I'm beginning to think that Hook hasn't killed anybody. All of his victims escape at the last minute. Ariel must have gotten Eric's location out of Blackbeard, so she really didn't need Hook to give up the ship at all.

 

Should I not ask how the bottle that was lying at the bottom of the ocean in the Enchanted Forest can float in Storybrooke because laws of physics would dictate otherwise? Maybe the oceans of the Enchanted Forest are saltless?

 

I'm hoping that they wrap up the curse in short order, Elsa/Anna/Kristoff hoof it back to Arendelle via the wishing star or something and they arrive back before Blackbeard/Hans. They can retake the kingdom and Kristoff can finally get to punch Hans. And Sven will be seen again.

 

Robin left Roland with his momsicle? The man has no brain. Or maybe he does. He probably left Roland with an ice pick and a blow torch. Then he will fake shock and horror when he sees the easily anticipated results. Everybody will blame the DQ for Marian's death.

Edited December 1, 2014 by kili

[ABitOFluff]

I really wish Elsa, Anna and Kristoff could stay as full time residents of Storybrook, but we know that's not the plan. Yes, yes, I know, Anna monologues too much and/or talks too much in general but I really love the family, including Snow Queen.

 

Rumple can leave any day, take Belle and Henry with him and Snow Queen could be the Big Bad from now on.

I wouldn't miss any of the three of them, but I am seriously going to miss Frozen and Elizabeth Mitchell.

Ha! I just said the same thing in the Frozen thread. I've fallen in love with them, especially Sven.I think Kristoff is now my second favorite guy on the show next to Hook.

[Actionmage]

I missed this initially, due to family stuff (good stuff), but just finished.

 

Man, thanks all who "warned" me about OQ scenes. The dialogue, it burns my ears!

 

There were plenty of moments to enjoy, and I did! 

 

Geez, Snowing, way to be creepy at the end. Yikes. Question: Why couldn't poor Kristoff get Emma's office? As some clever poster already noted, the spell won't keep folks from talking magically-induced smack. Why not separate him a little?  I will also commend the fx department on how creepy the shards coming out of the vent was. I will also second or third the notion that everyone feeling the need to look up was dumb.

 

I was hoping for a better escape attempt for Blue, but yes, I got a Jurassic Park vibe as well.

 

I guess we'll see how powerful Rumple magic is versus Regina magic; Gold still has to find Henry. Which is weird. Why didn't he just poof Henry to him? 

 

Anna (whispering):"This is such a strange world!"

Elsa (whispering  back): "I know!"

Can we have a wrap-up episode  where Kristoff and Anna and Elsa hang out at Granny's and are cool as the town comes in and goes about their routines? Before they go back to kick Hans outta their home, that is.

 

No one thinks of the poor snacks! Everyone has isolated themselves for the immediate future, but poor innocent snacks, and their buddies- water and soda- have been left to their own devices! Major Crisis # 4,062,555 might make you a bit cranky, so have a couple of Snickers there, just in case, amirite? Someone going off on you got you down? Red Bull will give you wings, or at least energize you enough to make equally nasty comments. Then again, maybe in this town, you can actually get wings.

 

One tiny question: The tunnel that got had part of it blasted open on the beach? It started under the library, correct? Is it connected to the tunnels in which the dwarves found the fairy dust diamonds? Are all the Storybrooke tunnels connected?

 

Man, I want the next episode right freaking NOW! When this show is hitting the right stuff, man, it can be thrilling.

[FineWashables]

I thought this was the best episode in a while, probably because it focused primarily on the main cast. 

 

When the core group was trying to get the necklace from Elsa, who needed it to locate Anna, someone -- Regina? -- muttered something to the effect of "Her sister again.  I am so tired of this thing with her sister."  And I agreed with all my heart.  The Frozen story has outstayed its welcome.  It was satisfying to see some of this story resolved.

 

As various couples kissed before the curse arrived, I couldn't help but wonder how come True Love's Kiss doesn't seem to do diddly any more.  Yet it was the ultimate magic in Season One.

 

Am I the only one who's distracted by how much the actor playing Blackbeard looks like Wil Wheaton?

[Primetimer]

As the Snow Queen's spell approaches, Once Upon A Time slows down to tie up some loose ends before the big finish.

Read the story

[tv echo]

I liked this episode overall, but I do have some nitpicks.  For example, why didn't Elsa and/or Emma use the wishing stone necklace to wish away the Spell of Shattered Sight or to protect all of them from that spell?

 

Also, I really hate RumpleGold and his incredible selfishness.  I wish he could be killed off or leave the show, but I know that won't happen.  While I loved Colin O' Donaghue's portrayal of Hook in this episode (his face expresses emotion really well), why didn't he try to outwit Gold once he hatted the fairies?  He could've hidden the box and then demanded the return of his heart in exchange for the location of the box.  Oh, and the Snow Queen can go off with Gold to Selfish Land.

 

But my biggest nitpick is the time line for the freezing, unfreezing, drowning and rescue of Anna and Kristof.   Anna and Kristof can't have been frozen in ice for 30 years because Hans was not 30 years older when he entered the room just after they unfroze.  Was Arendelle also time-stopped for 28 years like the Enchanted Forest by Regina's spell?  If so, there's still a 2-year gap.  Or were they time-stopped for 28 years and then frozen for 1-2 years?  I'm assuming Hans and Blackbeard are still back in Arendelle and the Enchanted Forest?  In any event, when Elsa used the necklace to make a wish, their box is magically transported across both time and realms onto the beach in Storybrooke - just in time to save them from drowning.  Big handwave.

 

While Elsa fits into this show pretty well and is a quite believable character, I just find Anna and Kristof (and Hans) a bit too cartoonish and out of place on this show (maybe it's the acting).  I'd love for Elsa to continue on OUAT, but unfortunately, the Frozen characters' time on OUAT is limited since - from what I hear - Disney is already working on a Frozen 2 movie.

Edited December 1, 2014 by tv echo

[Dani-Ellie]

As I was going back and forth in my discussion email with my friend (while I'm supposed to be working ... shh ;)), I suddenly remembered how much I loved Anna finding out Emma is Snow's and Charming's daughter. I'm assuming Emma explained it to Elsa off-camera (maybe in the ice cave?) because she didn't seem to question this young guy being Emma's father, but Anna's reaction was priceless.

 

ETA:

 

Anna and Kristof can't have been frozen in ice for 30 years because Hans was not 30 years older when he entered the room just after they unfroze.

 

Hans was frozen, too, though. I don't remember if his brothers were frozen with him.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[kili]

Anna and Kristof can't have been frozen in ice for 30 years because Hans was not 30 years older when he entered the room just after they unfroze.  Was Arendelle also time-stopped for 28 years like the Enchanted Forest by Regina's spell?  If so, there's still a 2-year gap.

 

Hans is the same age because he was frozen too. He was the first one frozen by the Snow Queen and we saw his frozen body in the Snow Queen's wardrobe where it was kept next to the urn. There was also a bit of dialog abut how Hans's brothers were also frozen, presumably because they were skulking around the kingdom somewhere hoping to save Hans or take over the kingdom.

 

Time in Arendelle was stopped by 30 years due to the freezing and they are outside the curse zone so Regina's spell never had any effect.

 

Also, I really hate RumpleGold and his incredible selfishness.

 

We know now that he could easily have saved Emma in the ice cave by simply revealing that the item Elsa stole from his shop was the Wishing Star (something he must have known - he can sense magic and that is some pretty powerful magic and his pattern would have been to research it).  Elsa could have wished Anna home from the very start. But, he was too selfish to help even that much.

[HeimrArnadalr]

One thing that bugged me about Hans's takeover was that there weren't any guards to stop him. Where was everybody? And apparently Arendelle now has 'vast armies' and a powerful navy. Elsa must have done that in the two years she was queen, because there weren't vast armies or ships of the line in Frozen.

 

We continue to see Arendelle Castle only from the east side...

 

I loved Snow's retort about Regina only having to worry about one villain when she was mayor.

 

Hopefully the season finale has Elsa, Anna, and Kristoff going back to Arendelle and kicking out Hans once and for all. And maybe conquering the Southern Isles, just to be sure.

 

Doesn't the way Elsa first reacts to the locator spell and Emma having to explain it contradict what happened last episode? She acted like she didn't know how the spell worked when she had previously used it to follow a floating scarf?

I think it works like that ring that Rumple gave Charming in Season 1.

 

Loved the Anna and Kristoff part of the episode.  Blackbeard has the Jolly Roger!  Now that we know people can just thaw out does it make any sense that Marian's heart needed to be ripped out or that DQ sister shattered?

In the movie, if the ice froze your heart you would turn to ice forever. Apparently when DQ froze Arendelle it somehow didn't freeze anyone's hearts.

 

I guess I'm in a very small minority, but the last few weeks have me bored silly. I am only one of five people who have never seen Frozen so I have little idea about what's going on. Costumes are pretty.

Have you considered watching it? Even if you become one of the ~4 people who hate it, it's not that long of a movie.

 

This Shattered Sight spell has to have a lot of handwaving, apparently. Elsa, Anna, Emma, Ingrid, Rumple and probably Hook and Baby Neal are all immune, then you got people like Roland "safe" somewhere... it's a curse without any real blood or consequences. We'll get a few funny lines out of it, then someone will break it, then everyone will go eat at Granny's. It's not going to be "deadly" like they say at all.

I don't think Hook is immune (he said he was going to chain himself to the docks) and Neal probably isn't either but there's not much he can do in any case. 

 

As others have said, there was a ton of contrivance, but the only two things that really bugged me were Rumple's plan (How exactly is he going to convince evil Belle (who totally has his number) and Henry to leave town with him? How is he going to un-evil them?)

Wasn't that the deal he made with DQ in the beginning? Belle and Henry would get to leave Storybrooke with him.

[HoodlumSheep]

Also, I really hate RumpleGold and his incredible selfishness. I wish he could be killed off or leave the show, but I know that won't happen. While I loved Colin O' Donaghue's portrayal of Hook in this episode (his face expresses emotion really well), why didn't he try to outwit Gold once he hatted the fairies? He could've hidden the box and then demanded the return of his heart in exchange for the location of the box.

If Gold had his heart, he could just order Killy to show him where he hid the box, so that wouldn't work.

[DeLurker]

CLOSE YOUR EYES, OH MY GOD WHY DOESN'T ANYBODY JUST CLOSE THEIR EYES.

I would have gone with BluBlockers.

 

Also, I really hate RumpleGold and his incredible selfishness.  I wish he could be killed off or leave the show, but I know that won't happen.  While I loved Colin O' Donaghue's portrayal of Hook in this episode (his face expresses emotion really well), why didn't he try to outwit Gold once he hatted the fairies?  He could've hidden the box and then demanded the return of his heart in exchange for the location of the box. 

I love Rumple -  he totally owns up to being selfish and makes limited pretext at being anything other than a villain.  But I can see how others view him with less appreciation.  But Hook couldn't have held the hat hostage in exchange for his heart - Rumple can control Hook's action just by having it.  That's how Regina got Graham to her bed in season 1 - he had no choice.

 

I bet they make sparkly, sparkly meth

 

Ha!  Love that!

 

ETA:  Hoodlum Sheep got there first - and great name!

 

And Anna does talk too much, but I like it.  She kind of babbles and gets off track like real people do - I find it endearing.

Edited December 1, 2014 by DeLurker

[Guest Accused Dingo]

Everyone is trying to use logic during a highly emotional time. These people think they are going to forget each other again or worse forget they love each other and tear each other apart. You can either run or let the person you love most know you love them before you die what is probably going to be a painful and horrible death. It is up to you which one you chose.

[mercfan3]

Rumple was my favorite character. I found him complex, and thought that because he could recognize the awful things he had done, and truly wanted to improve who he was..he was actually a redeemable character. But they screwed the pooch on that this season. He's even OOC evil. 

[Delphi]

I'm not sure if it's been said but if Anna and Kristoff were frozen for thirty years wouldn't that mean Sven the reindeer is long dead? Poor Sven abd poor Kristoff losing his BFF.

[kili]

While I loved Colin O' Donaghue's portrayal of Hook in this episode (his face expresses emotion really well), why didn't he try to outwit Gold once he hatted the fairies?  He could've hidden the box and then demanded the return of his heart in exchange for the location of the box.

 

The hat is useless to Gold without Hook's heart. Even if he couldn't control Hook with the heart (preventing Hook from blackmailing him into a deal), he would still inivitably want Hook's heart because there is simply nobody else alive who knew Rumple before he was cursed as the Dark One - or at least none that he knows about (those spinisters will probably come into play at some point). 

 

I'm not sure if it's been said but if Anna and Kristoff were frozen for thirty years wouldn't that mean Sven the reindeer is long dead?

 

The entire kingdom was frozen by the Snow Queen after Elsa was urned (they comment on it in that episode and that is how Hans's brothers also ended up frozen as they commented about on this episode). Sven is still alive and in Arendelle. Long live Sven!

Edited December 1, 2014 by kili

[ABitOFluff]

I'm not sure if it's been said but if Anna and Kristoff were frozen for thirty years wouldn't that mean Sven the reindeer is long dead? Poor Sven abd poor Kristoff losing his BFF.

I had the exact same thought, but if the entire kingdom was frozen, most likely Sven was frozen too. I just hope someone is taking care of him until Kristoff gets back.

Edited December 1, 2014 by ABitOFluff

[Mari]

I'm not sure if it's been said but if Anna and Kristoff were frozen for thirty years wouldn't that mean Sven the reindeer is long dead? Poor Sven abd poor Kristoff losing his BFF.

Sven's probably fine--he was in the stables, and the whole kingdom was apparently iced over.  His biggest problem will probably finding  good carrots to eat--frozen ones are often . . . less than pleasant.

[Alex]

I don't think Hook is immune (he said he was going to chain himself to the docks) and Neal probably isn't either but there's not much he can do in any case.

 

He wasn't chained, though. I thought he's immune because heartless.

 

I have a question: did Anna remember she had urned Elsa?

[Arandil]

Ok, so I liked the writing in the episode and there were some great lines, but I have some issues:

 

- So... Hook hatted all the fairies? Really, Show? You made Captain Hook kill Tinkerbell? I am not ok with that. Not. Ok.

 

- Also not ok: Blackbeard having the Jolly. Why? If Hook traded the ship to Blackbeard, he would have 1) known Blackbeard was alive and 2) known Ariel was alive and with her prince because you know Blackbeard is the kind of swaggery pirate who'd be all, "Yeah, I'm alive, jackass... that little mermaid saved me in exchange for info on her prince." And then all the glorious "I'm so sorry, Ariel. I swear on Emma Swan" angst of last year would be, in fact, pointless. The only way this is ok is if Hook traded it to someone else and Blackbeard stole it from them.

 

- "I should know better than to trust blondes." Actually, Regina, the last time someone did the ol' switcheroo and handed you morons a purse with the magical item gone, he had black hair. And "villian" tho he was, he turned around out of guilt to bring it back and help, but Little Miss Pure of Heart did no such thing and un-apologetically kept looking for her sister.

 

- So the ice wall is just getting around to forming in the water now? What did you do back in White Out, Hook? Walk like 10 feet and go "Yup, Giant Ice Wall must go around the whole town." Shouldn't you, as a sailor, have at least checked the water??

 

- True Love's Kiss breaks any curse? So why don't Snow and Charming kiss, or Emma kiss Henry, or Regina kiss Henry? Wouldn't that break the Shattered Sight curse?

 

- Why doesn't Rumple hat the Snow Queen? Or distract her while Hook hats her? Problem solved.

 

- So I'm supposed to believe that Arendelle - which is in a different realm - unfroze, but Marian is still a momsicle?

 

I just can't anymore with this show and logic. Or continuity. Or common sense.

[3dog]

I wondered why they couldn't have used the chain of the necklace for the fairy meth lab, leaving Elsa with the enchanted wishing star part for finding Anna in the cave-to-beach tunnel? Unless the shards of glass didn't land in the chain? Ergh, whatever.

[Mari]

- "I should know better than to trust blondes." Actually, Regina, the last time someone did the ol' switcheroo and handed you morons a purse with the magical item gone, he had black hair.

I actually took the blonde comment as a two-for-one verbal slap at Emma, since apparently not letting Regina kill someone is a betrayal.

[KingOfHearts]

I found it odd that Anna and Kristoff's return was dealt with so quickly when it was a major part of the 4A arc. We've been waiting nine episodes for it. I'm sure they'll immediately adapt to the Land Without Magic too... meh.

I love how Rumple just intentionally left a piece of straw on the ground for Anna.

[Shanna Marie]

I think I've figured out one possible thing that may have clued Emma in to the fact that something's up with Hook. It wasn't necessarily anything about the kiss itself. It's that he may be a sentimental sap, but he's even less of a tearful goodbye person than she is unless he really and truly thinks it's goodbye for good, and he never seems to think that. He's the one who always believes they can find a way out, and he's the one person who has never doubted Emma, who believes 100 percent in her and her magic. In every other tight situation where she feels hopeless, he's the one telling her she can do it. If he hadn't had this other stuff to worry about and hadn't known that he would be dead before the day was over, his most likely way of dealing with that scene would have been to wipe her tears and tell her it wasn't any kind of goodbye, something like, "You've got this, Swan. Now, I'll just be borrowing your handcuffs. You've got the key, so when you've got this all taken care of, I'll be down at the docks." But instead, he's acting like this is a final goodbye and he doesn't even try to give a pep talk to her. That's very out of character for him.

 

Rumple's an idiot. And Hook's not far behind. Everyone else hides inside and these two are standing around without even a ceiling to protect them. While I suppose they are both immune (deals with Ice Queen and being heartless), the cloud was raining shards of ice and glass. It might just freaking hurt.

As deep as Hook is in self-loathing, he probably wants it to hurt. He might even kind of welcome the spell because if he's affected by it, then it won't be quite as awful for him when he's having to do Rumple's bidding.

 

If Belle is affected by the spell (if the deal with Ingrid is just that Rumple and his family will be allowed to leave rather than that Henry and Belle are immune) and if she's anything like the Mirror Belle we saw earlier, then she might actually be more useful than regular Belle since she seems to have a clue. She'll jump right to suspecting that Rumple is up to something, maybe trying to summon him with the fake dagger to prove that it's fake. It would be kind of funny if the spell helped create the conditions that lead to foiling Rumple.

[buffynut]

Fall Finale airs Dec 14.

Thanks.  I was afraid we only had one week left to wrap up the Ice Queen curse before the break.  I will miss the Frozen characters and since I'm spoiler-free hope the 2nd half of this season will live up to the first half.

 

From higher upthread, the music on my tv seemed to drown out some of the dialogue for me too, so much so that I watched with the close captioning on. But I do wonder if it's my tv, as I have the same problem with other shows.

[Mathius]

So... Hook hatted all the fairies? Really, Show? You made Captain Hook kill Tinkerbell? I am not ok with that. Not. Ok.

No, he only hatted the fairy nuns, Tink has already been shown not to have joined that group and she clearly wasn't present with them in this episode. Also, hat-induced "death" is totally reversible anyway: we're going to get Blue's second resurrection eventually.

 

"I should know better than to trust blondes." Actually, Regina, the last time someone did the ol' switcheroo and handed you morons a purse with the magical item gone, he had black hair. And "villian" tho he was, he turned around out of guilt to bring it back and help, but Little Miss Pure of Heart did no such thing and un-apologetically kept looking for her sister.

Difference is that she knew Anna could save the whole town. Hook was out for himself when he took the bean.

 

True Love's Kiss breaks any curse? So why don't Snow and Charming kiss, or Emma kiss Henry, or Regina kiss Henry? Wouldn't that break the Shattered Sight curse?

It needs to be mutually consensual, this has been proven repeatedly in the past. Hard for it to be so when either one or both parties are convinced that they don't like each other.

 

Why doesn't Rumple hat the Snow Queen? Or distract her while Hook hats her? Problem solved.

He doesn't care about the problem. He'd actually prefer Storybrooke to be destroyed.

 

So I'm supposed to believe that Arendelle - which is in a different realm - unfroze, but Marian is still a momsicle?

It was unfrozen by Ingrid's will, this was stated by Anna. As to why no-one she froze there is dead or ever in danger in dying, they were frozen from the outside. Marian's condition (like Anna's in "Frozen") was a case of internal freezing.

[ShadowFacts]

 

- True Love's Kiss breaks any curse? So why don't Snow and Charming kiss, or Emma kiss Henry, or Regina kiss Henry? Wouldn't that break the Shattered Sight curse?

 

Yes, true love is the most powerful magic according to Rumple, so they shouldn't be affected at all, by any curse.  But that pronouncement from early on was apparently gibberish.

 

 

....That the fairies and dwarves were basically useless....

 

Especially Leroy when he suggested in the beginning that they build a framework over the ice wall and transport people one at a time.  I guess Storybrooke only looks large sometimes, but really has a tiny population.

 

The stupid stuff is what I'm left with after watching this half-heartedly while doing some other things.  Like besides covering/closing their eyes, why didn't Emma at least put her hand over baby bro's eyes?  That's just instinctual, I would have done it without too much thought.  She did hunker down over him, but didn't cover his face.  Fail.

 

Also, stupid but made me laugh:  before Boob Fairy got hatted she was pouring something into a sundae glass over what looked like a jalapeno pepper. 

 

When Robin said he would chain himself to a tree, well I really, really hope Ruby finds him and eats him.

[NotBothered]

I think I've figured out one possible thing that may have clued Emma in to the fact that something's up with Hook. It wasn't necessarily anything about the kiss itself. It's that he may be a sentimental sap, but he's even less of a tearful goodbye person than she is unless he really and truly thinks it's goodbye for good, and he never seems to think that. 

I saw a quote from Colin today that confirms that to Hook, it was a final goodbye, while to Emma it was just a goodbye for now.  I think the speculation that Emma picked up on the intensity of the kiss is correct, especially after the uncharacteristic intensity of their kiss in the last episode.

[Donny Ketchum]

How long did it take between the spell on Hans and his brothers wearing off and the one on Anna and Kristoff wearing off? The Hans posse arrived back to the palace pretty damn fast. Smells like plot contrivance.

I didn't even know Hans's brothers got frozen.  I thought only Hans had been.  Also, Hans had always been in the palace.  Ingrid had put him there after freezing him back in "Rocky Road."  I don't know about his brothers, though.

[Gulftastic]

When Blackbeard did his 'Fin-terference' gag, I wanted to give him a fist bump and a Phil Dunphy style 'nailed it!'.

[Guest Accused Dingo]

We all have dark sides whether we want to admit it or not. Some people like Rumple succumb to their darkness and never recover while others battle it all their lives like Regina. Others like Snow have their darkness so deep inside them that when it does come out it overwhelms them. No one is without a dark side. Where their is love their is hate.

As for what I am hoping for next episode. It is simple. Belle finally telling off Rumple. Rumple thinking she is under the spell but finding out she is not and realizing that she does not want to leave with him when her friends are in danger. She calls him the Dark One and demands he makes a choice. Once and for all their love or his power.

[The Cake is a Pie]

TLK might be able to break the curse, but they could only try it AFTER falling under the curse. Good luck trying to get anyone to make out while trying to kill each other.

It would be hilarious if they tried, though. Especially if each kiss only uncursed the two parties kissing. Then you'd have people running all over trying to make love connections while simultaneously fighting.

[2deadcows]

About next week: i thought Regina sealed the mayor office to any incoming and outgoings, to keep Henry safe, so... how does hook manages to enter it?

That was one of my first thoughts -- that maybe the Shattered Sight curse (or maybe it combined with Ingrid's magic) has within it an ability to cancel other forms of magic - or at least any magic that would prevent the SS curse from fully taking effect.  That would also explain to me why Evil Queen-Regina is bothering to fight Snow White with a freakin sword instead of using magic.  They'll probably handwave that bit as EQ wanting to "watch (Snow White) bleed" by her own hand but that's bullshit.  When have we ever been shown that the Evil Queen has any sort of sword fighting skills?  Magic is her weapon.  Lana Parrilla has stated that without her magic, Regina is helpless.  The true crazy pants, out-of-control EQ whould just walk down main street efficiently zapping everyone she hates with magic because it's quick and those peasants aren't worth expending any other effort.

 

Also, regarding Regina's logic in sealing herself and Henry inside their hideaways with her magic - obviously it doesn't work because the preview shows Hook entering the Mayor's office and Regina in the Sheriff's station -- but before seeing the preview, I had fanwanked that Regina would tap in to her light magic or some super-complicated combination of both that would require Regina to be of pure mind/heart/intention to break -- something that the Evil Queen in true Evil Queen mode would never be able to do.  Which is still possible, assuming my other theory about the SS curse itself nullifying her magic is anywhere near correct.

 

So, Heny and Robin are the only ones who believe in you Regina?  How about Snow and Emma, who tell you constantly that they believe in you and want you to be happy?

 

Yeah, that was a huge eyeroll moment.  Especially since the show has gone to such lengths to illustrate both Snow's and Emma's (maybe sometimes reluctant) growing/continued belief in Regina.  It's like the writers are doing all they can to reduce Regina's worldview/support system to Robin despite show history. 

 

No one thinks of the poor snacks! Everyone has isolated themselves for the immediate future, but poor innocent snacks, and their buddies- water and soda- have been left to their own devices! Major Crisis # 4,062,555 might make you a bit cranky, so have a couple of Snickers™ there, just in case, amirite?

 

Rite.  Emma even said something to Snow about what if you starve to death, but then, nothing, no precautions taken.

 

I actually took the blonde comment as a two-for-one verbal slap at Emma, since apparently not letting Regina kill someone is a betrayal.

 

Well, Regina's been shown to have a colorful history with Maleficient (and that line, along with the new and continued use of the library elevator from last ep to this one could maybe be read as foreshadowing).  And then there's the blonde Snow Queen who is causing so much trouble currently.

 

Especially Leroy when he suggested in the beginning that they build a framework over the ice wall and transport people one at a time.

 

Here's the thing.  At first I wondered if everyone would lose their memories of who they truly are once they get to the other side of the ice barrier, but then remembered they're living under Snow's curse now...so any forgetting is probably off of table.  But aren't folks still prevented from leaving town?  I thought there was more danger in leaving than just losing one's memory.  Or did I make that up?  At any rate, I'm assuming that there is some magical element to the ice, that it isn't JUST ice, that would prevent folks from crossing the town line and escaping the SS curse.

 

Also, regarding why Regina insisted that Henry was safer with her or, ultimately, away from both Regina and Emma once the SS curse hits -- Regina noted that Emma was part of the Snow Queen's plan.  Who knows what will happen to Emma?  Will she be under Ingrid's control in some way?  We already know that Ingrid can control/siphon Emma's and Elsa's magic.  Someone else speculated that Ingrid might do a memory wipe on E&E.  I can understand wanting Henry far away from that.

 

Also, has the show ever bothered to even pay lip service to the fact that Regina's major magical weapon is FIRE...and that, to my knowledge, no attempts have been made to use Regina (or combine her magic with Emma's) to melt/vortex through the barrier or at least explain why it would not/does not work?  It was unbelievable enough that there was no mention at all of Regina's fire magic when Emma and Elsa were trapped in the ice cave-in (yes, Regina was stuffing her face with sorrowful chocolate and was unreachable by phone earlier in the day, but the show/Charming thought it was totally acceptable to waste time chasing down dead ends via freakin Bo Peep but not even think to to drive to Regina's house/vault to let her know what was going on and ask for help?), but the actual optics of Regina standing in front of an ICE WALL in this ep without mentioning the possibility of blowing through it with fire was ridiculous.  You don't want to reduce your stupid plots to 3 minutes?, then say that the ice is infused with Ingrid's special ice magic blend and is impenetrable similar to Marian's frozen heart or something, but don't just ignore what you've spent the entire life of your show establishing.

Edited December 1, 2014 by 2deadcows

[Shanna Marie]

TLK might be able to break the curse, but they could only try it AFTER falling under the curse. Good luck trying to get anyone to make out while trying to kill each other.

There's also the problem that once they're affected by the curse, they may not want to break it. They may be made to feel like this is the way things are supposed to be, and now they're realizing the truth instead of being blinded by lies.

 

but the actual optics of Regina standing in front of an ICE WALL in this ep without mentioning the possibility of blowing through it with fire was ridiculous.

Yeah, she should at least have tried one fireball. Then they've closed a plothole and we get the bonus of getting to see Regina knocked on her ass. Win-win!

 

As for why Hook the survivor isn't even trying to free himself and seems to just be accepting his impending death, that could have something to do with Rumple's control over his heart. If I were controlling my worst enemy who always manages to escape and survive, the first order I'd give would be that he wouldn't try to do anything to free himself or get out of the situation. I think we could take that as a given. Then again, on this show ... Then there's also the fact that without a heart, would he have a strong survival instinct or will to live? And now I'm picturing Rumple amusing himself by whispering anti-affirmations over Hook's heart, just to screw with him -- "You deserve to die. You're not going to fight back. You don't want to live anymore. Even if you survived, no one would ever love you again."

[KAOS Agent]

The stuff about Hook's heart is just super annoying because they refuse to explain how it's working with him. Did Rumpel give him commands like don't tell anyone about this? One assumes he did, but then the writers say that Hook has free will when not doing Rumpel's bidding. That's totally contradictory. He can't be following commands and have free will at the same time.

I do wonder if Rumpel were to have told Hook to hat Emma instead of the fairies, if Hook would have been able to resist doing so by killing himself.

[Mari]

One assumes he did, but then the writers say that Hook has free will when not doing Rumpel's bidding. That's totally contradictory. He can't be following commands and have free will at the same time.

 

Well, no, but this is the same writing team that retroactively decided that the relationship Graham and Regina had was completely consensual, and decided that Regina could true love kiss without a heart, at the same time another character of their creation had limited emotions while he didn't have a heart (but was in possession of it himself).

 

I don't think they have writing rules.  They have suggestions, written on gum wrappers, that they usually misplace.