S05.E07: Crossed

[Pete Martell]

He's spent some of the worst moments of his life with Michonne. He has a very deep bond with her. He knows how much she cares about Carl. He also knows that Tyreese saved Judith's life and is a good man, but this is something he was told, vs. something he experienced himself, the way he experienced that time with Michonne.

[Grace284]

Clearly Rick needs to stop asking people for their opinions or just take Michonne with him when he wants to get his kill on. The real benefit of his plan is that it would have been executed without people talking. Now we're going to have to suffer through several more bland monologues from the Hospital for the Treatment of Poor Actors. Carole needs to wake up if only to inject some talent and charisma into proceedings.

[Timetoread]

I think Ty is good for babysitting when they're all together. But with a group needing to go all the way into ATL, not knowing how long they'd be, I'd want a veritable badass back at the home base, watching my kids. Knowing that Ty can be a waffler, get pensive and broody - I would not want him being the SOLE adult around there (FPP doesn't count). I'd want him with me (Rick), so I could keep him on his toes. Plus, being around his sister seems to help; she seems to be the bossy one in that relationship. I think Rick leaving Michonne behind shows how inexplicably he trusts her, more than anyone else. 

 

First off: Squeeeeeeee!  Secondly. I agree with this and want to add that Carl trusts and listens to Michonne.  She can keep him from his occasional surges of independence.

 

 

I think this criticism of Tyreese is overly harsh and unwarranted. Yes, he struggles to kill people in cold blood, but he is the one who ripped the walkers apart to get back into that house to save Judith. Also, he did not hesitate to shoot at the car when when the cop was shooting them.

 

I don't think it is harsh or unwarranted.  He ripped walkers apart to get back to a man who should never have gotten the drop on him to begin with.  Yes he fought the walkers but every single encounter could be your last and that it came to that is ridiculous.  That dude would have killed her.  And anyone of our group would have out and out killed the man who even threatened to snap her neck.  But not Ty - he lied about it.  So he is a punk AND a liar.  I have no love for this character at all.  He is selfish and self centered and not much more than dead weight.  So what he carried the baby through the wood for an afternoon.  Once Carol showed up, she did the heavy lifting.  So what he killed a bunch of walkers who were threatening HIM.  He's not much better than Pee Pee in my estimation.

 

I think the same can be said of Tyreese. I don't think for one second he hesitated in snatching Judith up knowing that it would be that much harder for him to survive. I have a hard time buying that Tyreese wouldn't do everything in his power to protect Judith even if it means killing someone.

 

Not that Tyreese needs Rick's trust but I'm not sure what more Tyreese needs to do. Tyreese already saved/protected Judith to an extent no one else has.

 

Not really.  As I said above, Carol did most of the maintenance of Judith.  Ty simply carried her sometimes because I imagine that baby is heavy.

[Pete Martell]

I'll cut him some slack on the Martin thing until we learn more (if we ever do), as Chad Coleman said Tyreese thought Martin was dead. That was just...poor, confusing writing.

 

I do think he was important for Judith, as he's probably the one who insisted on taking Judith from the prison (I think Lizzie would have left her behind), and the amount of comfort she felt with him suggests he must have spent a lot of time with her. But for me Michonne > Tyreese in this situation, even though I don't want Michonne's role on the show to be a nanny. (and to be fair to the writers, they didn't really have her being a nanny in this episode...well, she was, but more to Gabriel than to the actual infant).

[Bryce Lynch]

This episode had me facepalming.

 

 Sasha letting her guard down. 

 

 Abraham kneeling in the imaginary dunce corner.

 

 Maggie not arming herself, before checking on Mullet.

If walker Eugene was as weak and useless as living Eugene, Maggie could take him out unarmed, with her hands tied behind her back. :)

 

I had a DVR malfunction in the final minute of the episode.  Did they actually show Eugene as a walker?

[JackONeill]

If walker Eugene was as weak and useless as living Eugene, Maggie could take him out unarmed, with her hands tied behind her back. :)

 

I had a DVR malfunction in the final minute of the episode.  Did they actually show Eugene as a walker?

Apparently, the actor who plays Eugene sort of let the genie out of the bottle when he accidentally said that Eugene LIVES.  So, apparently, he ISN'T a walker.  But he sounded like one when we was coming to.

[Bryce Lynch]

I think Michonne was left at the church, because they wanted to leave at least one badass zombie/bad guy killer there to protect Judith, Gabriel and to a lesser extent Carl.  Tyrese could have handled walkers, but not necessarily living bad guys. 

[mightysparrow]

No one has mentioned WHY are the RapeCrew even wasting resources looking for or trying to get Noah back? I understand Dawn has this whole "pay for your stay" thing, but seems like wasting people, gas and possibly bullets to get back a kid you consider too weak to survive on the outside? Are you scared he's going to call the cops on you? Do they think he's got connections on the outside? He said he'd been there a year. Cut you losses RapeCrew.

Sasha, I don't feel bad. You played dumb, you won a dumb prize. I kept. Yelling at her to Check Behind You Fool!!

Could someone from Rape Cross Regional Medical center drive by and scoop up Father Pee Pants? He'd fit in great as a ward of that crew.

 

He really knows how to iron a uniform?

[KarateKate]

RandomBiter: [snip] 

Also there was a nice moment when Daryl gave a Rick a look of "what have you become?" when he was pointing his gun at one of the cops, emotionless, deciding whether to kill him or not.[snip]

Well, I misread that scene.

 

I read Rick as conflicted, as he was pointing a gun at the head of a uniformed police officer. Sure, they've been a few years into the ZA, he put Shane down, but getting over the idea of point blank head shot to another cop (who is still anachronistically at this point neatly and fully uniformed) has got to be conflicting. The uniform, the badge, the radio chatter... I thought Rick froze as a callback to his pre-ZA life.

I read Daryl's "Three hostages are better, anyway [para]" an out for Rick, seeing he was conflicted, and trying to not give the hostage a foothold on insecurities.

MrKate is a police officer, so my judgement is clouded on this, I'll admit.

[GodsBeloved]

 

He is selfish and self centered and not much more than dead weight. 

If this was true Judith would be Walker chow. A selfish and self centered person would not have picked up dead weight, which Judith is, when escaping for his life. Talk about useless. That is Judith's middle name. She brings nothing to the table. Say what you will about Tyreese (and Gabriel). They have the ability to bring SOMETHING to the table. Judith doesn't. In spite of this, Tyreese saved her instead of running to save his hide alone. He took on a total liability so clearly he wasn't being selfish and thinking only of himself.

 

Of course he fought off the walkers that were attacking HIM yet his selfish self came back inside instead of running and leaving Judith with Garth.

Edited November 24, 2014 by GodsBeloved

[ghoulina]

You know, the more I think about it, the more I think Michonne may have been left at the church for Carl. We all know Carl can be willful and ignorant from time to time. I think Michonne would be a lot more capable of keeping him in line than Ty would. Ty was very good with the little girls, but Carl is almost a man. He and Michonne just have this special bond, he really respects her. I would worry less about BOTH kids if Michonne was the one with them. 

[mightysparrow]

Nice of TPTB to allow Andrew Lincoln a cameo in this episode. SIGH.

 

I know people complain of the nature of season 2, but these last 4 eps are killing me slowly. 

 

I don't feel like anything really happened. Some people were shown to be stupid and do stupid things and believe people they don't know. Tyreese is lame. Daryl agreed with him...? PeePants runs off. Special effects department got their paycheck.

 

I love this show, but I feel like I am treading water waiting on something to happen and I am SAD.

 

I agree so much with this comment.  TWD just makes me so sad lately. I laughed out loud several times during this episode but I don't think I was supposed to.  Favourite characters are left literally holding the baby while glorified extras (I'm looking at you Tara) provide 'comic relief'.  Intelligent people make mistakes Judith would scoff at. At times there are such gaping holes in the plot, it seems that nobody bothered to even proof-read the script.  I'm looking forward to the break.

[Timetoread]

A selfish and self centered person would not have picked up dead weight, which Judith is, when escaping for his life.

 

I dont' think that is true.  I think self-centered people care about what they care about, but it can sometimes manifest like "What I care about is more important than what other people care about."  I think Ty lives inside of himself and aside for deciding to save a baby because he wants to be the kind of guy who save babies and children, I haven't seen a lot from him.  He worries about Sasha, he worried about Karen and he worried about the little girls.  Has he ever cared or done anything for anybody that was not directly tied to him?  Would he have saved Noah?

 

Talk about  useless. That is Judith's middle name. She brings nothing to the table yet Tyreese saved her instead of running to save his hide alone.

 

Don't you be talking about my Judith!!  LOL.  She brings PLENTY to the table.  She's cute.  She's a motivational speaker.  She's clearly the brains of that outfit.  She got rid of Lori.  Judith is all that!

[Rosiejuliemom]

Just a note to the writers:  if you don't want me to ship Rick and Michonne, then have them interact with others sometimes.  These two can't even nail boards without being glued at the hip.  And what are you doing to my shipper heart when Rick hands the baby to her like he's giving her to "Mommy"?  You're telling me they're NOT a family? C'mon!!

 

I couldn't agree more. I don't even know if I like it on a romantic level or if I just really want Michonne to be Carl and Judith's new mom. At least she knows where the kids are most of the time.

 

Rosiejuliemom

Yest. 10:05 pm

I loved the Morganizing of the church.

Orange Backpack gets to go on a mission!

Father Gabriel, check the church supplies for some scouring powder and maybe some dish soap if the floor blood bothers you so much. Make a paste, let it sit for a while, that shit'll scrub right out.

 

I'm very frightened of you right now. Kidding! I don't actually know how to get blood stains out of wood, never been an issue at my house but I do know hot water sets blood stains. So use cold water, Father Pee Pants. Where the h-e-double hockey sticks do you think you're going you nincompoop? I understand he's lost it, and could bear to see them dismantling his church, clearly his faith is in jeopardy and that is the physical embodiment of that. He kept focusing on Judith's cries, this is probably just me but for some reason I'm thinking he's equating her with baby Jesus or something. 

 

I have no medical knowledge whatsoever but even I questioned Beth's injection. The whole point of an IV is to administer meds SLOWLY, a steady rate and Beth just shot it straight into Carol like a junkie.  And I think their version of "life support" isn't as sophisticated as we are thinking. 

 

I have to thank my grandmother for the paste tip. I have used it to get rid of a multitude of hard to clean stains, including blood. Somebody didn't want to tell me about a nosebleed and I found the evidence a couple days later.

 

Beth's injection really irked me. I guess it comes from years of watching ER with a family full of nurses, but I get nitpicky when I see stuff like that. I'm sure the show was trying to heighten tension and conserve detail, but did Beth even clear the sizable air pocket in that syringe? If Carol dies due to an air embolism or something like that, I'm calling for a writer's head. Not to mention the difference between the drip she was told to give and the bolus she gave. Hope Carol's blood pressure doesn't skyrocket.

 

If walker Eugene was as weak and useless as living Eugene, Maggie could take him out unarmed, with her hands tied behind her back. :)

 

I had a DVR malfunction in the final minute of the episode.  Did they actually show Eugene as a walker?

 

I don't think Eugene is a walker. My closed captioning had him saying "Hell...hello" and I don't think we've ever heard walkers use actual words.

[Timetoread]

Carl is almost a man.

 

Seriously.  This show is going to have to write in a time jump to accommodate the steadily growing Chandler Riggs.  Any day now he's going to be sporting sideburns and a goatee.  Carl was like 10 when the show started.  Chandler gets his driver's license next week.  It's getting to be too glaring to ignore.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Timetoread

[mightysparrow]

If this was true Judith would be Walker chow. A selfish and self centered person would not have picked up dead weight, which Judith is, when escaping for his life. Talk about useless. That is Judith's middle name. She brings nothing to the table. Say what you will about Tyreese (and Gabriel). They have the ability to bring SOMETHING to the table. Judith doesn't. In spite of this, Tyreese saved her instead of running to save his hide alone. He took on a total liability so clearly he wasn't being selfish and thinking only of himself.

 

Of course he fought off the walkers that were attacking HIM yet his selfish self came back inside instead of running and leaving Judith with Garth.

 

I agree 100%.  Exactly how many people ran past those little girls when the prison fell.  They were nothing to Ty, he could have saved his own ass and spared himself a lot of heartache.  But he didn't.  No matter what anybody says, Tyreese is the reason Judith is alive.

[JackONeill]

You know with all this discussion of leaving Michonne and not Ty behind with Judith/Carl makes me start to wonder of the writers really put a lot of thought into it.  I think most people would think Ty should be the one left behind.  Yet he wasn't.  And we know Michonne is a killing machine and works well with Rick.

 

So, my point, is if this was a deliberate decision made by the writers there must be a very good reason.  That characater (either Michonne or Ty) must play an important part in the coming (or soon-to-be-coming) story.  I wonder of it's Michonne.  I guess I need to go speculate.

[Pete Martell]

I agree so much with this comment.  TWD just makes me so sad lately. I laughed out loud several times during this episode but I don't think I was supposed to.  Favourite characters are left literally holding the baby while glorified extras (I'm looking at you Tara) provide 'comic relief'.  Intelligent people make mistakes Judith would scoff at. At times there are such gaping holes in the plot, it seems that nobody bothered to even proof-read the script.  I'm looking forward to the break.

 

I don't think Tara has taken any airtime from Michonne. Michonne had a lot to do last season at the same time as Tara had a bigger role than she does now. 

 

I feel like they just don't know where to take Michonne next, so they're waiting. Which is frustrating, as she's one of the show's best assets.

I don't think Eugene is a walker. My closed captioning had him saying "Hell...hello" and I don't think we've ever heard walkers use actual words.

 

We also heard Maggie talking to him, which she wouldn't have done if he was a walker.

He really knows how to iron a uniform?

 

Were they looking for Noah or did they just go out because they heard gunshots? 

 

I guess they may have been worried about what he'd tell people if they didn't find him.

[Timetoread]

So, my point, is if this was a deliberate decision made by the writers there must be a very good reason.  That characater (either Michonne or Ty) must play an important part in the coming (or soon-to-be-coming) story.  I wonder of it's Michonne.  I guess I need to go speculate.

 

My guess is that what happens to Sasha will have an effect on Ty.

 

I feel like they just don't know where to take Michonne next, so they're waiting. Which is frustrating, as she's one of the show's best assets.

 

Michonne is my favorite but I think that it is smart to sideline her for a minute because it was quickly becoming all about Rick, Michonne and Carl as a unit and it was satisfying enough to breakout and carry the show as a whole.  They need to keep the ensemble as an ensemble and focus on ALL the characters that contribute to the larger narrative.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Timetoread

[ghoulina]

Were they looking for Noah or did they just go out because they heard gunshots?

 

I think both? There was a scene with one of the Lollicops telling Dawn that they WOULD find Noah, so I know they had been looking and were planning to continue to do so. So when there were reports of gunshots and Dawn sent certain people out, I think they were guessing it was probably Noah. When the cops that hit him got out of the car, they asked him where were the rotters he had been shooting at. It didn't dawn on them that other people might be around, they just assumed Noah was trying to fend off some walkers. 

My guess is that what happens to Sasha will have an effect on Ty.

 

That thought did cross my mind as well - that there was a reason for keeping brother and sister together. Now whether it was by the writers, for an upcoming plot point, I couldn't say. It might be that Rick wanted to keep them together because he knew Sasha was vulnerable after just losing Bob. The fact of the matter is, their group is a lot smaller right now. Bob is dead. And three members of their group just went off with Team Abraham, so they were down 4-6 fighters, depending on how you look at it. It can't be an easy decision to pick and choose who to take at this point. 

[GodsBeloved]

I dont' think that is true.  I think self-centered people care about what they care about, but it can sometimes manifest like "What I care about is more important than what other people care about."  I think Ty lives inside of himself and aside for deciding to save a baby because he wants to be the kind of guy who save babies and children, I haven't seen a lot from him.  He worries about Sasha, he worried about Karen and he worried about the little girls.  Has he ever cared or done anything for anybody that was not directly tied to him?  Would he have saved Noah?

 

 

Don't you be talking about my Judith!!  LOL.  She brings PLENTY to the table.  She's cute.  She's a motivational speaker.  She's clearly the brains of that outfit.  She got rid of Lori.  Judith is all that!

I think most people think what they care about is more important than what others care about. I think that's true of many in this group.

 

Yes I think Tyreese would have helped Noah. Just because they were in the same group, I don't think I have to assume that Tyreese had a direct tie to Lizzie and Mika yet he took them on when escaping the prison. But if he is to be considered selfish if he would not have helped Noah, then he would not be much different than hero Rick who did not help backpack guy.

 

LOL about Judith.

[HalcyonDays]

This episode really reminded me of the times of old, where CBD would make dumb decisions and the viewer is shaking their head going "really?"

 

First, Beth? You are going to trust crazy cop lady to not throw you under a rug. Please? These people need seven season worth of the X-Files Trust No One philosophy. So Dawn beats you up several times, won't let you leave, allow male cops to rape woman, and sees no remorse on killing others for the greater good, but you are going to trust her to not betray you when she gives you the drug key?? Really? She didn't, but still, I wouldn't be so trusting.

 

Never trust anyone who gives you a sob story like Bob did. Even if you were moved, you never ever leave them unbound, like Sasha did. And she should know better. None of these cops are going to all of a sudden change their minds and help you.

 

Why is Daryl all of a sudden wanting to save humans? Did the last few season not teach him anything?

 

Rick is the only one with an ounce of sense - finally. Maggie too, actually, for threatening to put Abraham down. I felt bad for him, because he was obviously catatonic over the Eugene reveal, but as a soldier, I would expect him to be a bit more mentally strong.

 

Father, father, what are you thinking? You leave the safety of the church, sans machete, to go out into the Zombified world with no weapons and apparently no brains either. *sigh* Darwin's law, people. Darwin's law...

[GodsBeloved]

 

So, my point, is if this was a deliberate decision made by the writers there must be a very good reason.  That characater (either Michonne or Ty) must play an important part in the coming (or soon-to-be-coming) story.  I wonder of it's Michonne.  I guess I need to go speculate.

I think Tyreese is going to die. I just hope its to save his sister.

 

Also, Beth may bite it too and Michonne is being set up to be the new nanny. I wondered why Rick didn't hand Judith to her brother instead of Michonne. Jeez I don't want Michonne being Judith's new "mommy". Beth come back!! COME BACK!!!!!!

[Pete Martell]

First, Beth? You are going to trust crazy cop lady to not throw you under a rug. Please? These people need seven season worth of the X-Files Trust No One philosophy. So Dawn beats you up several times, won't let you leave, allow male cops to rape woman, and sees no remorse on killing others for the greater good, but you are going to trust her to not betray you when she gives you the drug key?? Really? She didn't, but still, I wouldn't be so trusting.

 

I don't think Beth had any real choice here. The drug could have killed Carol, but the cops were going to kill Carol anyway. I don't think Beth cared if Dawn betrayed her - I think she knows there's a good chance she won't survive that place, but she was going to try to do her best, for herself and for Carol. I think it's like with Noah - she didn't mind dying if he got out. She likely hopes Carol makes it.

Why is Daryl all of a sudden wanting to save humans? Did the last few season not teach him anything?

 

Daryl has become more and more of a woobie in the last few seasons, and, as others mentioned, he likely also worries about Beth and Carol being killed in a gun battle. The problem I had is that I just don't think the plan makes any real sense. I think he would have known that.

[diebartdie]

 I have a hard time buying that Tyreese wouldn't do everything in his power to protect Judith even if it means killing someone.

 

Well then why didnt Tyreese kill MARTIN and STAB HIS CORPSE INTHE HEAD?!?!?!? Tyreese is alsmost as big of a liability as Father Pee Pants, except that yes, Tyreese will shoot at a moving vehicle and Tyreese will tear a clot of walkers apart with his bare heands. Tyreese will not kill a human being even if said human being is ACTIVELY threatening to murder baby Judith. Never forget that.

[RustbeltWriter]

As impossible as this sounds, I don't think they've done a good job showing what's going on between Dawn and the other people at the hospital. How many cops does she have? I just don't get why she's being such a hard ass about stuff and who she's afraid of.

[Boofish]

I agree 100%.  Exactly how many people ran past those little girls when the prison fell.  They were nothing to Ty, he could have saved his own ass and spared himself a lot of heartache.  But he didn't.  No matter what anybody says, Tyreese is the reason Judith is alive.

While I agree Tyrese is not completely useless (but he is 67.8% useless) no one ran past those kids to save their own hide. Beth and Maggie were helping to get the kids on the bus which is why all the children died with the exception of Lizze,Mika and Judith. They never showed exactly how those girls ended up with Judith but they ran back in the prison to get guns to help the fight. They saved Tyrese then they ran. Everyone assumed the children were on the bus and Rick stumbled back looking for Judith and Carl. Tyrese gets points for getting the children to safety but no one ran off and left them to save their own hide. Maggie, Sasha and Bob only left when they saw the bus pull off and Maggie assumed Glen and Beth were on it. When Glen got off I knew that "bus full of extras" was doomed

[diebartdie]

While most sane people can agree a church (temple, synagog whatever) is "four walls and a roof", there are many, many religious people who see the space itself as a true embodiemnt of whatever they accept as sacred and will go to extreme measures to protect the symbol (and in the process destroy the thing that made the symbol powerful to begin with.I think many people who were raised in any religion who later go aetheist as adults can relate to that)

I know we steer clear of religious talk, rightfully so, but I just have to say that I am growing weary of religious types being embodied in characters like Pastor Pissy.  Faith doesn't make you weak or a coward, many wars have been fought over religion.  And a church is four walls and a roof, not the body of God.

[GodsBeloved]

Well then why didnt Tyreese kill MARTIN and STAB HIS CORPSE INTHE HEAD?!?!?!? Tyreese is alsmost as big of a liability as Father Pee Pants, except that yes, Tyreese will shoot at a moving vehicle and Tyreese will tear a clot of walkers apart with his bare heands. Tyreese will not kill a human being even if said human being is ACTIVELY threatening to murder baby Judith. Never forget that.

Tyreese walked out of the cabin or whatever that was with a living, breathing Judith so clearly he did what it took to save Judith. I am unclear on how the above disproves my opinion, which is that Tyreese will do WHATEVER it takes to save Judith.

[Bruinsfan]

What in the seven hells is up with Father Pee Pants? And his ridiculous "escape"? You know Michonne and Carl weren't holding you hostage? And he LEFT the machete! What an idiot this guy is. I just cannot wrap my head around his reluctance to kill walkers. Like he sees the female walker with the cross, so he's all "She's a Christian, I can't kill her"? Newsflash, she's already dead! I don't know....I've always looked at killing walkers as not only protecting yourself, but putting them out of their misery. Now this chick is stuck there on the ground, gnashing away, can't even get at any food. I mean, that's just RUDE to me. He needs a reality check, but at this point I don't know what's going to do it. 

I realize it's got to be shocking to watch people you just met ruthlessly put down another group of people in your church. But I'd think the fact that the latter group was terrorizing you, threatening to kill children, and dumped Leftovers Bob on your doorstep to die would be a clear indication that a brutal response was warranted.

 

I think Rick leaving Michonne behind shows how inexplicably he trusts her, more than anyone else. 

Saving someone's daughter by carrying baby formula through a herd of walkers before you've even met is probably a really effective way of making a good impression. And in the time since, Michonne has proven herself to be extremely capable and reliable.

[Lyndy]

As impossible as this sounds, I don't think they've done a good job showing what's going on between Dawn and the other people at the hospital. How many cops does she have? I just don't get why she's being such a hard ass about stuff and who she's afraid of.

 

I don't get why they're all following her lead, frankly. It seems like there's been dissension in the ranks for awhile. She's not that tough. Why didn't the remaining rapey cops take her out ages ago?

[diebartdie]

Tyreese walked out of the cabin or whatever that was with a living, breathing Judith so clearly he did what it took to save Judith. I am unclear on how the above disproves my opinion, which is that Tyreese will do WHATEVER it takes to save Judith.

Because Tyreese knew he did not do the job. Tyreese knew he either did not kill Martin so therefore living Martin would get up and be just as lethal as before OR Tyreese did kill the living Martin and left the dead Martin to get up and be just as lethal as before. That wasn't even a half measure, that was a......quarter measure. Rick is right, kill the bad ones and then kill the corpse (unless you need the corpse to run interference for you which Tyreese did not need the corpse to run interference. BESIDES THAT, Tyreese flat out lied to Carol's face about it.)

[Primetimer]

It's mostly set-up in this lead-in to next week's mid-season finale.

Read the story

[Lila82]

Why is Daryl all of a sudden wanting to save humans? Did the last few season not teach him anything?

 

 

I don't think Daryl is necessarily about saving strangers as much as he doesn't want become an executioner.  Which is what Rick was asking him to do: sneak up behind someone and slit his throat.  The situation at the hospital is different than Woodbury or Terminus. They're not at war with these people, and Dawn isn't a delusional megalomaniac.  From what they know of her, a hostage situation really could work.

 

That said, there's no right answer.  Given their past experiences, it <i>does</i> make sense to eliminate the officers rather than risk a repeat of old enemies returning, but I can also see them wanting to avoid more death.  They narrowly survived mass murder twice in about a month's time.  They might be ready to try a different way.

[GodsBeloved]

Because Tyreese knew he did not do the job. Tyreese knew he either did not kill Martin so therefore living Martin would get up and be just as lethal as before OR Tyreese did kill the living Martin and left the dead Martin to get up and be just as lethal as before. That wasn't even a half measure, that was a......quarter measure. Rick is right, kill the bad ones and then kill the corpse (unless you need the corpse to run interference for you which Tyreese did not need the corpse to run interference. BESIDES THAT, Tyreese flat out lied to Carol's face about it.)

My point isn't about Tyreese doing "the job" if by job you mean Rick is right, kill the bad ones and then kill the corpse. The only thing I was talking about was saving Judith. That is the job Tyreese did in the cabin. It is a fact that when Tyreese was the only one there to act to keep Judith alive, he took action and Judith is still breathing. I also believe if it took killing someone to save Judith, Tyreese would do it. That is my point. My point is not about Tyreese taking retribution on the guy who threatened Judith or killing the bad ones. The fact that Tyreese didn't kill the guy simply proves that it wasn't a necessary thing to do in order to save Judith's life.

Edited November 24, 2014 by GodsBeloved

[JackONeill]

Maybe they're much more clever that they've shown themselves to be, but the writers have introduced two semi-major characters with almost no background: Father Pee Pants and Dawn.  Maybe their roles will extend beyond the mid-season finale, but doubtful for Dawn (but who knows).  Now I get that you partly build suspense that way.  But we knew the Gov was bad from day 1.  We were pretty damn sure about Gareth.  Joe and the cool-cats we knew were bad.  Yet, with these two . . . who really knows?  We thought we knew about Dawn.  We thought she was evil.  Now, we're getting mixed signals.  She might be an okay person.

 

But I think we'll never really know about Dawn, because I think her story will be over next week.  If that's the case, I think we'll all be scratching our heads about the whole significance of the hospital.

 

Now, Father PP.  I think his character was always been meant to be a little deeper and last a little longer.  But it's been, what five, weeks.  And all we have are more questions on top of questions.

Sometimes the writers wrap things up too quickly, or they let them go on too long.

[Ocean Chick]

I agree that Michonne was asked to stay behind with Judith and Carl more for Carl's sake than Judith's.  Rick knows that Ty sad he'd killed Martin because he threatened Judith, but he clearly didn't double-tap or make sure he was dead, so Ty is sloppy.  But more to the point, Michonne is about the only adult besides maybe Daryl that Carl would respect and listen to.  Can you imagine if Ty were left behind and told Carl to do something?  Carl thinks he's an adult, and the others treat him that way a good portion of the time, but Carl's brain is still growing and maturing, and he still makes rookie mistakes, so he still needs an adult's guidance from time to time.  Michonne is good that way.

 

Father Pee Pants is clearly insane, running away from the church with no weapons.  And he'll probably end up with an infection, if not lockjaw, from that nail in his foot.  Hah.  He truly is too stupid to live.

 

I think Dawn is setting Beth up for something, what with her turning nice all of a sudden.  It will probably end up costing Beth her life.  I, too, howled over Beth injecting that epi straight into Carol's IV.  Guess the writers/directors think we're all stupid regarding medicine.

 

I really like that they are given Rosita brains - last week with the air intake on the fire truck, and now with the knowledge of how to filter water.  And her medical skills she learned as well.  Tara is rather a goofball, but she's a bearable one, and is loyal to Glenn and willing to do what she needs to do, so she can stay for a while.  Good to see the old Maggie back - it's been a while.

[blackwing]

I enjoyed this episode a lot.  Mostly because we actually got to see what happened to all of the groups.  We got Rick/Daryl/Tyreese/Sasha going to the hospital to save Beth and Carol.  We saw what Beth was doing on her end.  We saw Michonne at the church.  We had Glenn/Tara/Rosalita going to get water.  We saw Maggie staying at the fire truck.

 

What I'm curious about is how the divisions were made.  I love that Michonne got to speak significantly at last in this season.  Why leave her at the church?  She's a better fighter than Sasha.  If they needed big guns for the hospital, they should have taken Michonne and left Sasha at the church.  Because honestly, the church is supposed to be secure, and if the church gets surrounded by walkers, not even Michonne would be able to save Carl and Judith.  I'm also curious as to why Glenn needed both Tara and Rosalita to get water.  How heavy is water?  I was worried for Maggie.  She was left with a sleeping Eugene and a near-catatonic Abraham.  If walkers came, she'd be dead.  They should have left Rosalita with her to manage Abraham.

 

When Rick and company were boarding up the church, how could none of them notice the HUGE hole that could lead underneath the church?  I hope this doesn't come back to bite Michonne and Carl.  As for the priest?  Let him get eaten.  No idea why he would flee safety like that.  Michonne and Carl weren't bothering him.

[bosawks]

My take on Ty going was that he just reunited with his sister and, since there was no way that Sasha was going to stay behind when she could be out avenging & killing, he was going to be by her side by hook or by crook that it was easier to have him come.

One or the other staying was going to be a confrontation it didn't make sense to have.

[queenanne]

It's hard to say yet why Michonne is not in the thick of things, but isn't it probable that Carl told Rick Michonne used to have a child and that's why she's now Judith wrangler? Unless she never actually told Carl on their solo walk and I made it up, but I seem to think she did. And I'm looking at the hole in the floorboards as Chekhov's gun at this point, so I tend to think she will be useful back at the ranch, er, church.

[Constantinople]

This episode really reminded me of the times of old, where CBD would make dumb decisions and the viewer is shaking their head going "really?"

Congratulations Sasha on earning your honorary Season 1 membership!

[kj4ever]

Noah said Bob2 was one of the good ones.  I can't blame him for trying to escape, I mean he doesn't know they aren't going to just kill him once they get their people back.

 

Now as far as one of the good ones....There are no good ones.  Every person in that hospital with a gun or weapon allowed women to be raped (and by the way the suicide girl from the Beth episode acted rather brutally) is just as bad as those doing it.  How hard is it to put a bullet in Dawn's head??  Surely Noah told everyone about all of this.  I still can't believe that Daryl would go along with that idiot Tyreese and not go the fastest way to get from point A to point B to get Carol and Beth out of there.

[JackONeill]

Did anyone even ask Noah: How many cops? How many guns? How many are likely to fire back (subjective, I understand, but like the one cop said; Not all of them are "real" cops)?

[Muffyn]

I'm hating this too, but I do recall that Maggie never uttered a word about her sexual assault with the Governor either.  I think that's her M.O. - to not talk about what is bothering her the most.  That said, even if she doesn't talk about it, I'd like to see some indication that she at least REMEMBERS that these two people existed.

It does seem like Maggie realizes she doesn't have the time or safety to really think about and try to heal from all of the recent emotional trauma she has undergone, so she stays silent and keeps going.  Otherwise, she could slip into a deep depression.  It's happened before.  If CDB settles in somewhere for awhile, she may actually talk about some of these things.  Otherwise, pushing it deep, deep down may be a better survival strategy.  

 

Don't you be talking about my Judith!!  LOL.  She brings PLENTY to the table.  She's cute.  She's a motivational speaker.  She's clearly the brains of that outfit.  She got rid of Lori.  Judith is all that!

I'm typically not a baby fan, but now that you remind me that Judith got rid of Lori, I'm on board.  Judith must survive!  She rid us of a great burden.  

 

Father Pee Pants is clearly insane, running away from the church with no weapons.  And he'll probably end up with an infection, if not lockjaw, from that nail in his foot.  Hah.  He truly is too stupid to live.

I think he may have thought that he wanted to sacrifice himself to make up for his treatment of his parishioners.  Seeing Rick et al take out the Termites may have led to a realization that he is not able to compete in this world.  However, when confronted by a walker, he couldn't just let it happen.  Then again, since he sought out the scene of the Bobecue, he may be trying to get his head around what people are really like in this new world.  I does look like the walkers may break through the window and get a good meal out of Father Pee Pants.   At least that will give him a purpose befitting his profession - feeding the hungry.  Unfortunately that group of walkers will be a little to close to the church for comfort.  

[cal]

At first, I wondered why Michonne stayed at the church with Carl and Judith rather than Sasha or Tyrese.  But after i thought about it for a little while, it made sense.  They were going on a rescue mission with no guarantee of coming back alive.  Out of everyone in the group, who would Rick trust with his children in the event he didn't make it back?  My guess would be either Michonne or Daryl and Daryl had to go on the mission because both Beth and Carol were taken on "his watch". 

[lulee]

The good: 

 

(...) Tara's light moments (I loved "GREATM" - it's one of those stupid, silly things some people do in real life that rarely makes it on TV)

It makes me like Tara more: I recall that back on TWoP I referred to the octet as BRATGEMS (which then included Sasha and Bob) as they made their way toward Terminus. Until Scott Gimple proves me otherwise, I'll assume there was a TWD writer lurking at TWoP who saw my comments. Or at least that will be my delusional fantasy.

[Tippi Blevins]

I don't get why they're all following her lead, frankly. It seems like there's been dissension in the ranks for awhile. She's not that tough. Why didn't the remaining rapey cops take her out ages ago?

 

 

That's exactly what I think every time there are scenes about the power struggles in the hospital. I just can't buy that these asshole rapists would still be following Dawn's lead at all. They would have taken her out ages ago. And if she were that afraid of the balance tipping, she should have killed the bad cops herself and recruited more decent people to take up their duties. In short, there's just not much about the whole hospital scenario that makes sense to me.

 

If Abraham doesn't have a major sunburn after sitting in the middle of the road all day, I'll call foul. I mean, they should all have sunburns to some degree, but Abe should be like a state fair deep-fried pickle.

 

I loved Rosita in this episode, but it seemed odd that Glenn and Maggie wouldn't know how to filter water.

[Constantinople]

How close were Sasha & Bob II to the hospital?

I ask because the plan was to draw off a couple of cops by firing a gun (as it turned out, 3 cops responded). If Bob II had been on the up-and-up, Sasha would have shot a walker. Isn't there a risk the hospital hears the second shot?

I don't know how the hospital would respond, but if 3 cops go out to investigate the first shot and don't return, wouldn't the sound of a second shot put the hospital on further alert? Even if you trust Bob II, it seems like shooting Bob II's walker friend has downside but no upside.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Constantinople

[Ilovetolurk]

Unfortunately between my coming and goings and my temperamental cable box I missed portions of the show. I am hoping it is already on on demand so I can watch it today.

I think Rick Preferred Michonne to anyone else to watch over his kids simply because of Carl.

As a baby Judith is looked at by many of the adults, but not Carl and his stubborn self. Rick knows the only person other than himself who can reign him in is Michonne, in fact I would say she does a better job at it than Rick. So both his kids are in the right hands.

Plus at this rate I think she has slightly surpassed Daryl for Rick's ride or die, only because I can see Daryl leaving with Carol if she wanted to leave.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Ilovetolurk

[CletusMusashi]

FPP can die immediately. if we never see him again and just assume he got himself eaten, that'll be fine. But of course, if he gets eaten, they'll have to stretch it out into a big stupid holy communion metaphor, because the show seems to be written by some kind of weird space aliens who have never actually seen a real religious person. I've been an atheist for over thirty years, but I still live on the same planet as everybody else. And I know bad writing when I see it.

 

MIchonne continues to get screwed out of screentime. Everybody else got to do something. Couldn't we have maybe seen her and Carl performing a sock puppet show for Judith? And maybe the puppets would be a little too scary for FPP, so that could be why he ran away?

 

Carl as a man of few words actually gives off a quiet dignity and sense of competence that I would never have expected. I may someday forgive him for the hat.

 

The only reason I can think of to bring Tyreese is that he's good for heavy lifting. If Beth or Carol have to be carried, Tyreese can move them faster than Michonne.

 

One thing I'll say for Rick: right or wrong, smart or stupid, sane or crazy.... the man looks absolutely terrifying these days. Believe me, I'm not on the side of the lollicops, but when they were surrounded and outgunned by a group of people led by somebody who looked like Rick, I felt for them. I'd surrender pretty quick, too. Rick Grimes is one scary-looking motherfucker.

 

Daryl was lucky to be able to grab onto the one skull in ten thousand that hasn't turned into quiche. Although even if it had, I think exploding a rotting corpse head all over your attacker's face would still be a pretty good distraction. With all that very specific talk recently about Samson killing Phillistines with the jawbone of an ass, I wonder if the zombie head was meant to be a parallel. Daryl's strength isn't his hair, though. It's his lack of squeamishness.

Edited November 25, 2014 by CletusMusashi