S05.E07: Crossed

[morgankobi]

I wonder if Rick is tired of being right.

On the other hand, I always yell at the tv when he leaves the kids, again! (Yes, I know a bloody rescue isn't the place for small children--not the point.) Secondary scolding when Glenn and Maggie split up. In a ZA, I'm not going anywhere without my significant other if I'm lucky enough to have one during the end of the world.

 

Tetanus shots are good for 10 years, so I'm going to be a little disappointed if that's what brings down Father Pee Pants. But, boy, was I hoping he was going to get bitten in the woods. Damn.

 

I'm hoping that TPTB are trying to soften Dawn so she can sacrifice herself nobly, because that would mean that she still ends up dead. All the "cops" in the hospital have facilitated, willfully ignored, or partaken in things that make them irredeemable to me. They can all go next episode.

Edited November 24, 2014 by morgankobi

[Pete Martell]

Something about Sasha rubs me the wrong way. I just don't care about her grief over losing the her boyfriend of ten minutes. It's like Karen and Tyreese all over again. Did we really need to devote that much time to her issues during this episode?

 

We at least saw her becoming close to Bob - Tyreese and Karen got two scenes. Unfortunately I think skipping the church group for three episodes made it seem like more time had passed than it actually has. That and that it's never fun seeing people succumb to idiot plotting.

[Pete Martell]

On a different note, can we get rid of Tara?  She's taking a lot of the lines that could be given to Rosita.  I could give a crap if she found a yo-yo.

 

I think Tara and Rosita fill different roles. You can give Tara lot of comedy. She's also more vulnerable than Rosita. Rosita is more of a quiet strength to try to keep people from cracking. I feel for her that she has to be Abraham's sitter. 

 

I'm just glad the show is fleshing her role out. I was concerned after she spent that one episode just mean-mugging Gabriel. 

 

And Tara - I just love watching her. She reminds me a lot of the heart of the show that sort of went away as everyone lost their innocence.

 

It's a gift for the show that they have so many diverse, interesting female characters. I never thought I'd see it. I just wish they used them better...

Edited November 24, 2014 by Pete Martell

[Nashville]

I usually don't mind the zombie gore, but Daryl's bowling ball trick with the walker head was just a laughably bad effect, imho. I felt like I was watching an '80s B movie.

How did the melted walkers get melted? Why were they so--ugh!--pink?

 

Napalm burns hot - hot enough to melt fat and meat like a tallow candle, and hot enough to scorch skin better than the Colonel's finest Extra Crispy and expose all the cute little pink bits underneath.

 

I guess the guy is proof that God exists. There's no way this guy could have survived as long as he did without divine intervention.

 

My nominee for best post of the evening.

 

Now that I think about it, its strange that Beth hasn't really been punished for the escape attempt.  I guess that puts another point in the Dawn is conflicted but the actress isn't quite getting that across column.

 

The two new sets of stitches in Beth's face speak to her punishment for the escape attempt, I believe.

[English Teacher]

I liked last week's episode expecting it to be the calm before the storm. Fleshing out (ewww... No pun intendd) some of the important characters is relevant and interesting. But you can't have several weeks of low voltage just to amp up the mid season finale.

And hasn't Fr Idiot just given walkers an ingress to the carefully boarded church? Ii get he is horrified that God's home has been desecrated, but what do you think a walker in there will do for its sanctity ?

[Ouisch]

What happened to that enormous herd that was just ahead of Abraham and Company last week? Team GREATM didn't seem in any hurry to budge from that spot on the road.

[Helena Dax]

 

 

Maggie is safe from walker Eugene, since he doesn't seem to be able to use his arms when alive, and is now on his back like a turtle.

 

 

LOL

What happened to that enormous herd that was just ahead of Abraham and Company last week? Team GREATM didn't seem in any hurry to budge from that spot on the road.

 

I was wondering about that too, it made no sense.

 

The priest is useless, but I don't hate him... yet. I wonder if there's a future for him or he'll be bitten soon. I think as long as he doesn't bertray the group, we'll be fine.

 

Sasha... It was a rookie mistake, but it's easy understand why it happened. Let's  just hope no one  dies because of it. 

 

Loved Tara and Rosita.

[GreyBunny]

I thought they hiked quite a distance away from their truck when they saw the slaughterhouse herd.

 

Oh, Sasha.  *facepalm*  She's my favorite female character, I hope she doesn't mess up that badly again.

 

Father Pee-Pants amuses me; he's weak but he's squirrelly in entertaining ways.  I hope he sticks around for a while but that puncture wound in his foot is going to come back to haunt him somehow.

 

Beth was useful for a change.  At least until she confused a drip with mainlining.  Ugh.

 

Loved Tara, she seems to fill Axel's comedy relief role.  I actually enjoyed Glenn and the girls figuring out how to go fishing.  I had to giggle, they went on about how useless Eugene is and there's Rosita making a water filter that Eugene taught her to do.  

Edited November 25, 2014 by GreyBunny

[natyxg]

What happened to that enormous herd that was just ahead of Abraham and Company last week? Team GREATM didn't seem in any hurry to budge from that spot on the road.

 

Actually, Glenn looks at them all worried and says that they're fine, that walkers didn't notice them there. And that's that.

 

The priest is useless, but I don't hate him... yet.

 

My problem with him is how appalled he seems, like in a judging way. It's one thing for Maggie and Glenn, for example, to feel a bit freaked out after seeing Rick and the others kill the hunters. They earned it, they earned feeling that way because they too have been out there. But the lame priest dude hid while people got eaten outside, and then didn't leave for more than a year. If he isn't used to the violence it's because he hid while people outside were dying. So, he can fuck off. The fact that he only has that one pained expression all the time doesn't earn him any points with me either.

 

At least he left. I was gonna hate him even more if other people had to put themselves in harm's way, AGAIN, because his whinny ass can't bear the thought of killing a walker.

[Pixel]

I actually thought she might be trying to get Carol to wake up quicker. Or whatever was leftover in the drug cabinet was a diluted form of epi. Like it was what you use for anaphalaxis rather than a heart attack. Or most likely tptb didn't want to risk MMB having an embolism by having EK hook up an actual iv drip and its easier to hide the meds dripping out the side that way.

No. All they had to do to make it work was to have Beth inject the epi into the hanging bag (that's what the extra port on the bags is for) instead of into the port on the IV hep lock. I'm not complaining because I wanted to see Emily the actress start an actual IV on MMB the actress. The issue is where she put it and how fast she pushed it. It was faked/acted completely incorrectly.

It doesn't really take that long to learn to start IV's. I got it on my first try in nursing school, and Carol is a thin white woman. Except for the dehydration, I'd guess she's not a tough stick. However, she already had an IV. All Beth had to do was attach the bag to the already present IV site and put the epi in the bag. Instead, the director chose to drive nurses crazy. I was even willing to overlook that Beth would never be able to figure out the rate for the drip!

And the epi was supposed to boost her pressure, not drop it. Low blood pressure was her supposed problem. From internal injuries. What Beth did would have skyrocketed both her pressure and heart rate for maybe three minutes. She needed a steady drip to bolster her pressure over a consistent time frame of hours or days.

Rant over. I will now get over it. Although I'm still not over the episode of Chuck where we were told Amiodarone stops your heart.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Pixel

[seacliffsal]

I guess that I never bought into Bob 2's 'niceness' as he was in the police car that purposefully hit Noah who they knew was injured and couldn't run well.  They easily could have gotten him without running him down in a car.  It's the little tells that give insight to a person...

 

I'm concerned that the Zombies in the school will get out (they cracked the window when the Termites were there) and Gabriel will lead them back to the Church and they'll follow him as he tries to get up into the Church through the floor boards.  And I agree with previous posters-I would NEVER leave Tyrese in charge of my children-he couldn't even kill Martin when Martin was going to strangle Judith.  Daryl needed to go to Atlanta as did Rick, maybe Sasha would have been fierce enough to leave with the kids?  No, I answered my own question-all bad people would have to say is that all of their names were Bob "this is my brother Bob and my other brother Bob" (Newhart Show reference....).  

 

There are several characters who could die in an attack and I'd be fine; my worry is that it will be the characters I really like who might get killed (not a spoiler-I don't know if there will be any deaths next week).

[Morrigan2575]

I am so glad someone else noticed that. I kept asking out loud 'she said drip, didn't she? She basically just shot the entire syringe-full at her all at once. If that's like taking an epi-pen I'd imagine Carol might have jumped right out if the bed!

 

That whole story confused me.  The doctor said drip and she got the Saline bag so why didn't she inject it into the bag?  I'm not in the medical profession so I figured i must have missed something.  I also didn't get the Life Support comment, when I think of life support I think feeding tube, ventilators, something to keep the heart beating, etc.  I didn't see Carol hooked up to anything except maybe that oxygen tube they put on most patients.  Mostly what she seemed to have was machines monitoring her health which I guess the cop could complain about taking up too much electricity but pulling the plug on those wouldn't kill Carol, specifically.

 

It just seems weird to me that they use Life Support which usually means a very, very bad situation and then say she can be woken up with a shot of Epinephrine.

[Pete Martell]

I guess that I never bought into Bob 2's 'niceness' as he was in the police car that purposefully hit Noah who they knew was injured and couldn't run well.  They easily could have gotten him without running him down in a car.  It's the little tells that give insight to a person...

 

I'm concerned that the Zombies in the school will get out (they cracked the window when the Termites were there) and Gabriel will lead them back to the Church and they'll follow him as he tries to get up into the Church through the floor boards.  And I agree with previous posters-I would NEVER leave Tyrese in charge of my children-he couldn't even kill Martin when Martin was going to strangle Judith.  Daryl needed to go to Atlanta as did Rick, maybe Sasha would have been fierce enough to leave with the kids?  No, I answered my own question-all bad people would have to say is that all of their names were Bob "this is my brother Bob and my other brother Bob" (Newhart Show reference....).  

 

Joking aside, I don't think that Sasha cared that his name was Bob. I think after Tyreese told her to try to move on and accept what had happened, she wanted to give Bad Bob the same closure. It's just that I don't believe she would have had him follow her to the window. It was poor writing.

 

There's a running theme in these season 5 episodes that Tyreese may have the right idea at heart, but it often ends poorly. I still don't know if he intentionally didn't kill Martin or if he just thought Martin was dead - either way, it didn't end well. Now we have this hostage plan which I think is very stupid. I will rant about that in another post. 

 

I have mixed feelings about Bad Bob. I can see why Noah trusted him - he was trying to be gentle with Noah when they were taking him back, he knocked Sasha out but didn't take the time to kill her - although that might have just been him wanting to get the hell out of there, his face during that whole scene did make me think he had some sorrow over what he was doing. Yet we saw moments where he was more of a jerk, like his attempts to kill Daryl and his obvious displeasure when he didn't get the job done. 

 

I thought the actor, whoever he was, did a good job with some of the ambiguity. He also reminded me of Shane, for some reason. For all the parallels of Rick and Dawn, this guy actually reminded me more of Rick, especially when he said that he wasn't a cop anymore because all the real cops are dead. 

So Michonne is minding the kids and counseling the priest. Wonder if she had time to do the dishes and wax the floors.

 

When Rick finds out that BobboCop has escaped, he's going to kick Daryl's ass.

 

I think he'll blame himself.

 

This was another episode where I wondered if they were setting up Michonne/Gabriel. I hope not, as I think she deserves better (and I don't hate Gabriel, I just think she deserves better), but I'm cynical enough to wonder after they had two lengthy conversations between them. 

Edited November 24, 2014 by Pete Martell

[Pete Martell]

I wasn't sure how I'd feel about this episode, and after watching it, I'm still not. My basic problem with it is a well-crafted episode can't hide basic idiot plotting. 

 

The good: 

 

- I'm not a huge fan of their multi-strand storytelling, not after the way Woodbury stopped huge portions of the show dead. So I was pleasantly surprised that the 4 strands worked here, didn't seem disjointed. 

 

- Overall I think splitting some of the group off to the failed DC mission has proven to be an increasingly wise decision. Maggie still seems aimless (although she was a lot better this week), but there's been some terrific character development for Tara, Rosita, to a lesser degree Eugene and Abraham, and I much prefer Glenn chilling with friends to angsting with the Rick group. It was nice to see him in extended scenes with two women and not have to worry the show was setting up any romance or cheating. Rosita getting to know them more, the slight tension between Tara and them over Eugene, Tara's light moments (I loved "GREATM" - it's one of those stupid, silly things some people do in real life that rarely makes it on TV), Maggie and Rosita trying to help Abraham get over himself. This is what many would call "filler" but it's one of the everyday type of sequences that help keep me a fan of the show.

 

- I liked that some of the characters got to have believable reactions. Even if the show feels that Abraham is good at heart, I like that Rosita still flinches when he snaps, and that Maggie took no chances and held him at gunpoint. I liked that Gabriel (a very sheltered man) is repulsed by the group and can't see them as being any better than those they slaughtered. 

 

- I'm still really disappointed at how little they're using Michonne, but otherwise I thought the church scenes were very effective. My favorite part was the use of sound to help us see Gabriel's tattered mind - Judith's constant crying, the hacking away at the church, Gabriel's nails on the floor. I thought Seth Gilliam was great in the scene where Gabriel was, instinctively, going to kill the walker, until he saw the cross around her neck. The nail in his shoe reminds me of Aeon Flux (the Liquid Television shorts, not the later stuff) - probably one of my favorite and most frustrating resolutions to anything ever. 

 

- I could swear Rick was flirting with Michonne a little. Not that it means anything to the story, or that I ever think it will happen, but I'll take what I can get.

 

- I liked Tyreese trying to help Sasha move on, even if that turned out to be a terrible idea.

 

- Medical realism aside, the hospital scenes did manage to show Beth navigating a confusing place, with no one she truly trusts, to try to save Carol's life. Some of the fans of these women tear each other apart, tear the actresses apart, so onscreen, it was good to see just the opposite, to see that women can be there for each other, and that Beth and Carol don't exist via shipping wars. 

 

- The guy who played Bad Bob did exceptionally with what could have been very basic material. A part of me almost hopes he stays around, but this show has enough morally ambiguous brooding guys already.

 

The bad:

 

- I just don't buy that Daryl would agree to Tyreese's plan. It's bad writing. I don't know if the idea was that Daryl and Tyreese were supporting the idea of goodness and humanity, and Rick was going with basic brutality (and were we supposed to agree with him? Are we supposed to want the characters to be killing machines? I have no idea), but this was about common sense. Don't they remember The Governor's "trade"? Or how they refused to negotiate with Gareth at the church? The idea that these may be good people and let's give them a chance is something I don't quite believe most of the group would support at this point. 

 

- Sasha letting Bad Bob near the window with her. Again, bad writing. 

 

- I'm not all that interested in the power struggles of Dawn and her cops. I feel like I should care a lot more about Dawn than I actually do. 

Edited November 24, 2014 by Pete Martell

[ghoulina]

Well, I'm super late to the discussion. Our family had a horrible stomach bug this weekend, and it was all I could do just to WATCH the show last night - laying on the couch, moaning louder than a walker. I actually had to turn away during the melted pavement walker scene, and that is unprecedented with this show. I am immune to gore. So you know it was bad. 

 

Anyhow, I feel like I need to rewatch at some point, because I was not entirely focused. On the one hand, I thought it seemed like this episode was just a vehicle for getting us towards next week, so it was okay that I wasn't fully engaged. But then I thought maybe it was BECAUSE I couldn't fully engage that I didn't connect to it. So I don't know. 

 

I will say, I knew that Bob2 was going to pull some shit and I couldn't believe Sasha just let her guard down like that. When are these people going to learn??? Also, I could have killed Daryl for backing up Tyrese's ridiculous plan. I was totally team Rick on that one, but CDB has to much things up, as usual. 

 

I did like seeing Glenn, Rosita, and Tara working together. Little things like the water filter, and the fishing net - we need to see more of that kind of stuff. I am liking Tara and her positive, dorky attitude more and more. I also liked seeing Beth concocting plans and getting shit done. Hopefully it works because I just cannot bear to lose my Carol. 

 

Um...I totally thought when Eugene "came to" he sounded like a Walker. I was all, "Maggie! Don't just waltz over there, he's going to eat your face!" 

 

What in the seven hells is up with Father Pee Pants? And his ridiculous "escape"? You know Michonne and Carl weren't holding you hostage? And he LEFT the machete! What an idiot this guy is. I just cannot wrap my head around his reluctance to kill walkers. Like he sees the female walker with the cross, so he's all "She's a Christian, I can't kill her"? Newsflash, she's already dead! I don't know....I've always looked at killing walkers as not only protecting yourself, but putting them out of their misery. Now this chick is stuck there on the ground, gnashing away, can't even get at any food. I mean, that's just RUDE to me. He needs a reality check, but at this point I don't know what's going to do it. 

[Ellaria]

 

- I'm not all that interested in the power struggles of Dawn and her cops. I feel like I should care a lot more about Dawn than I actually do. 

 

Same here. And that's why I had a problem with this episode. I'm not ready to get invested in the motivations of another inhumane group leader and his/her minions. In a ZA, there would be lots of these scary psychos on a power trip. In a TV show, I don't need to meet one in every other episode and expect to understand "why" they missed the humanity memo. In less than a year, we have gone from the Wandering Gov to Gareth and the cannibals and now to Dawn. Hopefully, we are done with Dawn and her gang next week.

 

Having not read the GN, I'm not sure what to expect from Father Gabriel. Only an idiot goes dashing off without a weapon. If walkers come crawling into his escape hatch and bring misery down on Michonne, Carl and Judith...let's just say that it better not happen. 

 

I'm really over Abraham. Someone else needs to start making the decisions for that little group. Maggie seems like a possible candidate.

[Pete Martell]

I think he couldn't kill her because it reminded him of his letting other Christians turn into being like her. He wasn't stopping to think that the humane thing was to kill what was left of her, instead of leaving her half-broken on the ground. 

 

That seems to be a theme (not sure if it's intentional) this season - the "good" things you do often aren't all that good.

[ghoulina]

Tetanus shots are good for 10 years, so I'm going to be a little disappointed if that's what brings down Father Pee Pants.

 

LOL, I had the exact same thought. Taken down by a rusty nail. It was actually even funnier to me, because Mr. Ghoulina has this bad habit of walking around in the garage in his slippers (or barefoot!) and he has literally put a nail through his foot three times since we've been together. And never suffered any consequences. So last night I said, "FPP, you better hope you have Mr. Ghoulina's superior feet, otherwise it aint looking good for you". 

 

I think Tara and Rosita fill different roles. You can give Tara lot of comedy. She's also more vulnerable than Rosita. Rosita is more of a quiet strength to try to keep people from cracking. I feel for her that she has to be Abraham's sitter.

 

I agree. I see Rostia as more of a "get it done" kind of gal. And while Tara ain't sitting around twiddling her thumbs, she brings a sort of dorky optimism to the group that I don't think they would have otherwise. I definitely see a place for both of them. 

 

I guess that I never bought into Bob 2's 'niceness' as he was in the police car that purposefully hit Noah who they knew was injured and couldn't run well.  They easily could have gotten him without running him down in a car.  It's the little tells that give insight to a person...

 

Yea, I didn't trust him for a second. When he wanted to speak to Rick, as the voice of reason, I immediately thought he was trying to play "Good Cop-Bad Cop" with the other two. 

[bosawks]

Did anyone else notice when Beth walked into Carol's room it was exam room number 2.  Which is significant because it is now obvious that Beth is Daryl's number one and that as Daryl's second choice Carol will succumb in the mid-season finale............

 

Sorry, couldn't help myself,  bad bosawks, bad........

[mandolin]

Nice of TPTB to allow Andrew Lincoln a cameo in this episode. SIGH.

 

I know people complain of the nature of season 2, but these last 4 eps are killing me slowly. 

 

I don't feel like anything really happened. Some people were shown to be stupid and do stupid things and believe people they don't know. Tyreese is lame. Daryl agreed with him...? PeePants runs off. Special effects department got their paycheck.

 

I love this show, but I feel like I am treading water waiting on something to happen and I am SAD.

[lulee]

This makes a lot of sense. Though, I am really giving that female cop the stink eye now if she's on Rapey Cops side. Anyway, I do get the feeling that Dawn is conflicted. I wonder why the other cops are even listening to her to begin with if she is such a weak leader. If the other cops are planning a coup, I can see the negotiating being the tipping point that'll finally make them take control away from Dawn.

 

That doctor told Beth not to trust her, though. Maybe she is setting her up. But for what, I have no idea. l. 

I feel like doctor meant that Dawn might have been true to what she said then to Beth, but there was no guarantee that Dawn wouldn't change her mind in the future. She's dangerous in that she thinks she's led by reason but she's really led by emotion.

[GodsBeloved]

What I kept thinking during the episode ... they need to find a muzzle for Judith.

[The Mighty Peanut]

Who decided that when someone is going to have a fake paroxysm falling to the ground, the appropriate bribe is a soft crushable fruit like strawberries? For some reason that bothered me more than anything else implausible in this otherwise rather waste of an hour. ..

The fruit itself didn't bother me so much as Beth having learned how to work the black market in her spare time between being comatose and botching her own escape.

[Pete Martell]

She could have easily learned that from Noah or Dr. Edwards.

[NoWillToResist]

It doesn't matter how tough she tries to talk or act i just don't buy Beth as a badass. Stop trying to make us viewers believe all of a sudden Darryl and the lady cop others think she is strong and tough, please.

 

I can't decide if this focus on boosting Beth is a signifier of her impending doom. Perhaps both she and Carol die next ep since they've both had lots of screentime and attention this season.

 

 

Who decided that when someone is going to have a fake paroxysm falling to the ground, the appropriate bribe is a soft crushable fruit like strawberries? For some reason that bothered me more than anything else implausible in this otherwise rather waste of an hour. ..

 

And why didn't the guy either quickly eat them or hide them before faking his attack? He knew people would come...wasn't there kind of a big risk of them seeing the VIBRANT RED strawberries in his hand??? And how dumb were the caretakers that he blinked and totally recovered. Amateur hour.

 

I would like to know how the hell, in a quiet church, Michonne and Carl didn't hear Gabriel RIPPING UP THE FLOORBOARDS!!!!??? Was Judith screeching the entire time? WTF?

 

We have heard, over and over, that the hospital only tries to save salveable people. So, if Carol was half dead upon arrival, with internal injuries, why the fuck didn't they just stab her in the head and toss her down the elevator shaft. It makes no sense that they would have even started such intensive care on her.

 

Oh Sasha. Even if the story had been true, the cop's friend had been out there for over a year. Another day would not have mattered. How the hell did the rest of the crew allow her to take a prisoner to an isolated area BY HERSELF? What the hell? And turning her back on a prisoner? Holy fuck. My nine year old nephew wouldn't be that dumb...

[JackONeill]

there's either more to Dawn than even we (and the cop characters) think, or this is going to be another plotline that fizzles out.

 

Yes, I wish there'd been more Rick in the episode, but the scene where he had his gun trained on the cop and you just knew he was going to pull the trigger.  But Daryl kept talking him down.  In some respects, i always think it's out of character for Daryl to do something like that, but we've seen it before from him.  Also, I wonder how much his feelings for Beth AND Carol were motivating him to be less blood-thirsty.  (And later on he agreed with Tyrese.)

 

I agree with may of you who think Rosita and Tara both deserve roles.  What they bring to the table are different things, but interesting things.  We've never really had a "Jerry Lewis" character except for the short-lived Axel.  And Rosita is tough without being all sword-swinging and grunts.

 

The preacher/the church  - I have no real idea what's going on there, and don't really care (for some reason).

 

Finally, I think the writers are letting Beth show how she's grown.  I think some of us felt that earlier, but now it's more overt.

[RandomBiter]

Why would you ever take a conscientious objector-type like Tyreese on a mission where you are planning to kill people..... Meanwhile, you leave Michonne (aka "the weapon with a weapon") back at the church to watch the kids? Okay.

 

Something about Sasha rubs me the wrong way. I just don't care about her grief over losing the her boyfriend of ten minutes. It's like Karen and Tyreese all over again. Did we really need to devote that much time to her issues during this episode?

 

Finally, you know its bad when you think that the Beth parts of the episode were the strongest. She, at least, had a mission and managed to accomplish it this episode.

 

Some very good points. I do love the show, but they must think us viewers are a little dumb, too many storylines just make little or no sense.

 

Tyreese is perfect for babysitting, why on earth would you take him on the Atlanta mission and leave Michonne... it's ridiculous... I can only think Tyreese is going to die now, perhaps to save Sasha... who returns to her normal-self afterwards.

 

I think they are moulding Michonne into Rick's new love interest... she seems to be baby sitting and offering kind words now more than being in battle... which is a shame because she's almost their best fighter.

[Pete Martell]

And why didn't the guy either quickly eat them or hide them before faking his attack? He knew people would come...wasn't there kind of a big risk of them seeing the VIBRANT RED strawberries in his hand??? And how dumb were the caretakers that he blinked and totally recovered. Amateur hour.

 

I would like to know how the hell, in a quiet church, Michonne and Carl didn't hear Gabriel RIPPING UP THE FLOORBOARDS!!!!??? Was Judith screeching the entire time? WTF?

 

We have heard, over and over, that the hospital only tries to save salveable people. So, if Carol was half dead upon arrival, with internal injuries, why the fuck didn't they just stab her in the head and toss her down the elevator shaft. It makes no sense that they would have even started such intensive care on her.

 

The hospital saves who Dawn wants them to save. I could see her hearing them say Carol was gone and insisting they keep trying, just to show them she's in charge.

 

I doubt most of the cops cared all that much about whether he was hiding something in his hand or whether his attack was authentic enough. The only one who would have cared is Dawn, and she was in on it.

Tyreese is perfect for babysitting, why on earth would you take him on the Atlanta mission and leave Michonne... it's ridiculous... I can only think Tyreese is going to die now, perhaps to save Sasha... who returns to her normal-self afterwards.

 

I don't think Rick wanted to leave someone who won't kill humans as Judith's caretaker. That's why he wanted to stay himself - protecting Judith is one of his main priorities. 

[SimoneS]

Yes, I wish there'd been more Rick in the episode, but the scene where he had his gun trained on the cop and you just knew he was going to pull the trigger.  But Daryl kept talking him down.  In some respects, i always think it's out of character for Daryl to do something like that, but we've seen it before from him.  Also, I wonder how much his feelings for Beth AND Carol were motivating him to be less blood-thirsty.  (And later on he agreed with Tyrese.)

 

I thought that Beth and Carol were the primary reasons that Daryl preferred Tyreese's less violent hostage exchange plan and he did not want Rick to kill the other cop.

 

I posted earlier that they cannot trust anyone, but I don't think is it rather they have to be more skeptical of most people who are with horrible survivor groups like Dawn, Joe, Philip, and Gareth. Some people stay with these groups because they are desperate and unable to go their own way or find other good people, but there are the others who revel in the crazy cruelty. It is often hard to distinguish between the two.

[RandomBiter]

A decent-ish episode, oddly made better thanks to Tara and Beth. It used up a lot of valuable time, but I did like the Glenn/Tara/Rosita fishing trip... I think the logic there is that Abraham will become isolated in the group, only to redeem himself by killing a dozen walkers singlehandedly and saving everyone.

 

Also there was a nice moment when Daryl gave a Rick a look of "what have you become?" when he was pointing his gun at one of the cops, emotionless, deciding whether to kill him or not.

 

Next week should be good, I bet we'll get at least one key cast member death.... my vote would be Beth, with Carol surviving until the end of the season. Though it's about time the show surprised us, so how about Tyreese and Sasha killed off, plus the vicar guy, plus Eugene, plus Carol.

[Timetoread]

I actually liked it but I always like character centered episodes.  What I didn't like was the shoddy decision making.  I wouldn't bring Tyrese anywhere with me.  He is a straight up liability.  His (let's take prisoners - armed, well fed, well rested, used to be in law enforcement prisoners) plan was stupid and Rick needs to just cancel the democracy again, trust his gut, and keep it moving until he has his group back together.  I also didn't like the wussifying of Sasha.  She is not stupid or weak and she would never EVER have put a prisoner behind her like that so that he could get the jump on her.  Why write her like that?

 

I love Rosita and in two episodes she's sitting next to Michonne as one of my favorite females on this show.  Also, the actress is really really pretty, I wonder if they have her in a hat and pigtails so that her beauty wouldn't be distracting when everybody is supposed to be looking so ragged.  And for the first time in forever we saw glimpses of the old Maggie.  I missed that girl.  I would have loved it if she and Abe had a grief-off and she trumped his with, "Last week, this maniac chopped off my fathers head with a sword."  Maggie wins and Abe gets up off the damn ground and acts like a grown up.

 

Just a note to the writers:  if you don't want me to ship Rick and Michonne, then have them interact with others sometimes.  These two can't even nail boards without being glued at the hip.  And what are you doing to my shipper heart when Rick hands the baby to her like he's giving her to "Mommy"?  You're telling me they're NOT a family? C'mon!!

 

I know we steer clear of religious talk, rightfully so, but I just have to say that I am growing weary of religious types being embodied in characters like Pastor Pissy.  Faith doesn't make you weak or a coward, many wars have been fought over religion.  And a church is four walls and a roof, not the body of God.  I would have appreciated if he took one look at the blood that was shed then took another at WHY that blood was shed, which was to save the two children who are still alive and healthy and miraculously HAPPY, and see THAT as the mercy of God rather than wringing his hands over broken pews and stained floors.  Honestly I hate this character and rooted for that zombie in the woods as if she was playing for my home team.

 

And speaking of faith.  My prayers were answered.  Beth finally, F.I.N.A.L.L.Y. showed some gumption and evidence that she'd been hanging with CDB (the reigning team of the apocalypse) for a while.  Good for her!  Count that as the first time I've ever rooted for Beth, as opposed to my usual one person wave for the zombie heading her way.

[nachomama]

Rosiejuliemom

Yest. 10:05 pm
I loved the Morganizing of the church.

Orange Backpack gets to go on a mission!

Father Gabriel, check the church supplies for some scouring powder and maybe some dish soap if the floor blood bothers you so much. Make a paste, let it sit for a while, that shit'll scrub right out.

 

I'm very frightened of you right now. Kidding! I don't actually know how to get blood stains out of wood, never been an issue at my house but I do know hot water sets blood stains. So use cold water, Father Pee Pants. Where the h-e-double hockey sticks do you think you're going you nincompoop? I understand he's lost it, and could bear to see them dismantling his church, clearly his faith is in jeopardy and that is the physical embodiment of that. He kept focusing on Judith's cries, this is probably just me but for some reason I'm thinking he's equating her with baby Jesus or something. 

 

Sasha! facepalm.

 

I have no medical knowledge whatsoever but even I questioned Beth's injection. The whole point of an IV is to administer meds SLOWLY, a steady rate and Beth just shot it straight into Carol like a junkie.  And I think their version of "life support" isn't as sophisticated as we are thinking. 

 

So frustrated that they got no further and we are all just waiting for next week then the eternal break til February. 

[RandomBiter]

I would like to know how the hell, in a quiet church, Michonne and Carl didn't hear Gabriel RIPPING UP THE FLOORBOARDS!!!!??? Was Judith screeching the entire time? WTF?

Perhaps they just thought "sod him, he's useless". He's left a baby and young boy to go for a wander, what if Michonne has an accident and is killed.

 

Part of me wants him to find the 'killer' in him and become useful to the team, but another part of me really couldn't care less, he's annoying and his acting is monotone. The best case scenario is that he finds Morgan, grows some balls, and they fortify the church together.

Great that we had the real Maggie back again, finally!

 

Though her total absence of grief over the loss of her father and disappearance of her sister is a bit odd. She's not mentioned either of them once.

[GodsBeloved]

 

I don't think Rick wanted to leave someone who won't kill humans as Judith's caretaker.

Carl was there and Rick knows he will kill a human so it wasn't as if there was no one left behind who would not kill humans. Plus how exactly does Rick know that Tyreese won't kill a human? Rick knows for a fact that Judith survived with Tyreese for several days out in the open so I'm not sure why he'd be afraid to leave her with Tyreese in a boarded up church with Carl and weapons.

Edited November 24, 2014 by GodsBeloved

[Timetoread]

I'm hating this too, but I do recall that Maggie never uttered a word about her sexual assault with the Governor either.  I think that's her M.O. - to not talk about what is bothering her the most.  That said, even if she doesn't talk about it, I'd like to see some indication that she at least REMEMBERS that these two people existed.

[GodsBeloved]

I thought that Beth and Carol were the primary reasons that Daryl preferred Tyreese's less violent hostage exchange plan and he did not want Rick to kill the other cop.

That's a good point. Tyreese did make a comment about what if bullets start flying everywhere.

[Pete Martell]

I know we steer clear of religious talk, rightfully so, but I just have to say that I am growing weary of religious types being embodied in characters like Pastor Pissy.  Faith doesn't make you weak or a coward, many wars have been fought over religion.  And a church is four walls and a roof, not the body of God.  I would have appreciated if he took one look at the blood that was shed then took another at WHY that blood was shed, which was to save the two children who are still alive and healthy and miraculously HAPPY, and see THAT as the mercy of God rather than wringing his hands over broken pews and stained floors.  Honestly I hate this character and rooted for that zombie in the woods as if she was playing for my home team.

 

I don't think faith is Gabriel's weakness as much as it's a lack of any faith - in himself or God or the people around him.

 

The show doesn't really have any characters who believe, but I think Maggie (insert comments about Beth) is sort of closest - she's struggling with feeling anything after what has happened to her and the group, but she's still trying.

[ghoulina]

Tyreese is perfect for babysitting, why on earth would you take him on the Atlanta mission and leave Michonne... it's ridiculous... I can only think Tyreese is going to die now, perhaps to save Sasha... who returns to her normal-self afterwards.

 

I think Ty is good for babysitting when they're all together. But with a group needing to go all the way into ATL, not knowing how long they'd be, I'd want a veritable badass back at the home base, watching my kids. Knowing that Ty can be a waffler, get pensive and broody - I would not want him being the SOLE adult around there (FPP doesn't count). I'd want him with me (Rick), so I could keep him on his toes. Plus, being around his sister seems to help; she seems to be the bossy one in that relationship. I think Rick leaving Michonne behind shows how inexplicably he trusts her, more than anyone else. 

[Pete Martell]

Carl was there and Rick knows he will kill a human so it wasn't as if there was no one left behind who would not kill humans. Plus how exactly does Rick know that Tyreese won't kill a human? Rick knows for a fact that Judith survived with Tyreese to several days out in the open so I'm not sure why he'd be afraid to leave her with Tyreese in a boarded up church with Carl and weapons.

 

I thought Rick must have known about some of this with Tyreese since Tyreese at the prison struggled to even kill walkers, and went on scavenging missions for that reason, but I'm not sure. 

 

I think Rick just doesn't fully trust most people to be able to protect his daughter. There's Carl, but Carl's just one person. Michonne can protect her, or would die trying. 

[GodsBeloved]

I posted earlier that they cannot trust anyone, but I don't think is it rather they have to be more skeptical of most people who are with horrible survivor groups like Dawn, Joe, Philip, and Gareth. Some people stay with these groups because they are desperate and unable to go their own way or find other good people, but there are the others who revel in the crazy cruelty. It is often hard to distinguish between the two.

Another good point. Daryl was with that horrible group and he went along to survive.

[JackONeill]

I'm sorry if someone else mentioned this, but I feel like I need to defend Tyrese.  Yes, I wouldn't have taken him on this mission.  BUT -- does Rick know he's frozen from time to time?  I mean really, I think Daryl saw it when they went to the vet college, and Carol saw it.  I don't think Carol had time to tell Rick (and why would she).  And, frankly, I don't recall if Daryl had time, so much was unwinding then.  Plus, why would he.  Remember: Both Daryl and Rick saw (and felt) Tyrese going all primal on them.  So, that might be all they think.

 

[Edited:  Oops, I see some of you were already talking about this.  Sorry.]

Edited November 24, 2014 by JackONeill

[SimoneS]

I think this criticism of Tyreese is overly harsh and unwarranted. Yes, he struggles to kill people in cold blood, but he is the one who ripped the walkers apart to get back into that house to save Judith. Also, he did not hesitate to shoot at the car when when the cop was shooting them.

Edited November 24, 2014 by SimoneS

[Pete Martell]

I think this criticism of Tyreese is overly harsh and unwarranted. Yes, he struggles to kill people in cold blood, but he is the one who ripped the walkers apart to get into that house to save Judith. He did not hesitate to shoot at the car when when the cop was shooting them. 

 

I'm not criticizing Tyreese as much as saying I can see why Rick would rather have Michonne protecting Judith. I think he'd rather have Michonne with Judith over almost anyone.

[Mu Shu]

Did anyone else notice when Beth walked into Carol's room it was exam room number 2. Which is significant because it is now obvious that Beth is Daryl's number one and that as Daryl's second choice Carol will succumb in the mid-season finale............

Stop.

Sorry, couldn't help myself, bad bosawks, bad........

Edited November 24, 2014 by Mu Shu

[GodsBeloved]

 

I think Rick just doesn't fully trust most people to be able to protect his daughter. There's Carl, but Carl's just one person. Michonne can protect her, or would die trying. 

I think the same can be said of Tyreese. I don't think for one second he hesitated in snatching Judith up knowing that it would be that much harder for him to survive. I have a hard time buying that Tyreese wouldn't do everything in his power to protect Judith even if it means killing someone.

 

Not that Tyreese needs Rick's trust but I'm not sure what more Tyreese needs to do. Tyreese already saved/protected Judith to an extent no one else has.

[ghoulina]

I'm not criticizing Tyreese as much as saying I can see why Rick would rather have Michonne protecting Judith. I think he'd rather have Michonne with Judith over almost anyone.

 

Agreed. 

 

And I don't think Ty is totally useless. I think he's great in clear-cut situations, because he is a hulking beast of a man. But when situations are a little more vague, not so black and white - that's when he doubts himself, questions things, doesn't act quickly, etc. I don't think anyone in CDB knows exactly what to think of FPP yet. So I can see Rick not wanting to leave his kids near that guy without someone he trusts 100%. Michonne has shown to be very perceptive and quick-thinking. If FPP started getting sketchy, Ty might hem and haw over it for a bit, while Michonne would just act and think later. 

[Timetoread]

I thought that Beth and Carol were the primary reasons that Daryl preferred Tyreese's less violent hostage exchange plan and he did not want Rick to kill the other cop.

 

I get this sinking feeling that the writers are setting up a storyline where there is division in the group and that they have a problem with "hardcore" Rick.  But this wouldn't ring true, particularly with Daryl and Glenn who have been with Rick since the very beginning.  Unless Rick  starts bathing in the blood of the conquered and raping and pillaging, I think they're already pretty clear that Rick has hardcore in him but does what he does because he has to.  I think the trust has already been established and I simply won't buy a small thing breaking that trust.

[GodsBeloved]

I think he'd rather have Michonne with Judith over almost anyone.

Why though?

[Boofish]

That cop head butting Sasha just helps me fuel my debate with other Dead-heads about the morality of leaving Orange Back Pack Dude on the side of the road. 

 

Also, Judith continues to be the brightest spot in my T.V. viewing week

[NurseGiGi]

 I actually enjoyed Glenn and the girls figuring out how to go fishing.  I had to giggle, they went on about how useless Eugene is and there's Rosita making a water filter that Eugene taught her to do.  

I've been wondering since season 1 why these people don't go fishing more often!