Small Talk: The Prayer Closet

[galaxychaser]

USA education is lacking to say the least. I’m disappointed with the education I got.  College was my favorite part of my school journey.

[Temperance]

The husband talking to the doctor about a woman's hysteria sounds like something from the 50s or even earlier. 

I think validating that the problem is real (even if it's psychological). Are there no more tests they could run? I've enough experiences between myself and my friends of doctors not listening to women.  

@Jynnan tonnix I hope your daughter feels better soon.

[doodlebug]

15 minutes ago, Temperance said:

The husband talking to the doctor about a woman's hysteria sounds like something from the 50s or even earlier. 

I think validating that the problem is real (even if it's psychological). Are there no more tests they could run? I've enough experiences between myself and my friends of doctors not listening to women.  

@Jynnan tonnix I hope your daughter feels better soon.

I understand what you're saying, but, from what Jyn has told us, her daughter is really not functioning well and I believe that, if a family member could help the doctor to understand just how disturbed she is by her symptoms, he or she might be able to step in and get her help sooner. I certainly don't think he needs to tell the doctor she is hysterical; but telling him or her that she is lying in bed all day, convinced she has COPD and thinks she is dying is pretty pertinent information and she may not have conveyed that to the doctor herself.

Personally, I am concerned that waiting another 3+ weeks to see the pulmonary specialist is going to be torture for her and, since it seems clear that her lungs are not the source of her symptoms, her family doctor could perhaps start to work with her to consider other causes including anxiety.  I don't mind at all when family members contact me with pertinent information that the patient might not have given to me.  I think it is also highly likely that the pulmonologist is going to look at all the tests that have been done, tell Jyn's daughter that her lungs are working well and Jyn's daughter will dismiss that and decide to look for another lung specialist, and another, and another.   That's how anxiety disorders work.  People go from doctor to doctor to doctor; never satisfied that they don't have whatever dread disease they fear.

As far as running more tests; I am sure they put a pulse ox on her finger in the office and it showed normal oxygen saturation levels.  That pretty much rules out most serious pulmonary conditions including COPD for all practical purposes.  She has also had pulmonary function tests, a chest x ray and a CT.  When all of these tests are normal, there really isn't much else to do; her lungs are functioning normally, they have normal structure, she has normal oxygen levels in her blood stream.  There are deeply invasive procedures like a bronchoscopy, but, when someone has completely normal testing to this point, the odds that something significant will be found on the scope that was completely missed by every other test is virtually nil.

Edited June 20, 2020 by doodlebug

[GeeGolly]

I'm going to respectfully disagree that anxiety disorders compel folks to doctor shop to get a medical diagnosis. And competent PCPs are going to run tests to rule out a medical diagnosis. A good therapist will inquire about medical tests and/or do a consult with the PCP during the initial stages of working a client before diagnosing them, if they have never been diagnosed with a behavioral health issue before.

Its human nature to investigate symptoms to figure out why. If we run a mile and our chest is tight, we're fine with it. If we're sitting in our living room and our chest becomes tight, we need to know why. From the little information provided, Jyann's daughter's (JTD) behavior is very typical, even more so when her PCP believes her symptoms may be physical as well.

JTD will get to where she needs to be in her own time. I've worked with folks who have had medical issues ruled out, and maybe after 3 or 4 ED visits over the course of a year (or some variation of delay in seeking treatment), they finally seek behavioral health help. Granted, after starting therapy and maybe meds too, they all say they wished they started sooner.

I do agree that Xanax is a temporary medication that should be used short term and JTD would likely benefit from an SSRI. I also agree that family input is helpful, but with a client's full knowledge. I will often ask the client themselves - so if I talked to your husband, what concerns might he have?

Mental health issues, not unlike physical health issues, are tough on families, however toughest for the one experiencing them. JTD will get to where she needs to be.

All this to say, I was reluctant to initially give input because I have absolutely no real idea what is happening with JTD, because I've never spoken with her. It sounds like she has a competent PCP and she has some great family support.

Again, hugs to the entire Tonnix family.

 

 

[Chicklet]

Sadly I've got patients with severe anxiety disorders who go to the ED every single week, so yes they can actually doctor and ED shop, rotating ED's and sometimes going to several in one day, then they ask for a different doctor in the same practice, hoping to get another answer.

I get tracking info on when people go to the ED and most of them are the patients with anxiety.

 

 

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, Chicklet said:

Sadly I've got patients with severe anxiety disorders who go to the ED every single week, so yes they can actually doctor and ED shop, rotating ED's and sometimes going to several in one day, then they ask for a different doctor in the same practice, hoping to get another answer.

I get tracking info on when people go to the ED and most of them are the patients with anxiety.

 

 

I've been in the field for over 30 years and I've never seen what you described for someone diagnosed with anxiety. Maybe if they're looking for benzos, but not for a medical diagnosis.

Edited to add: Or looking for a beefed up paper trail to make a better case to obtain disability entitlements.

I would be looking at other diagnoses if any of my clients showed that behavior.

 

Edited June 20, 2020 by GeeGolly

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I've been in the field for over 30 years and I've never seen what you described for someone diagnosed with anxiety. Maybe if they're looking for benzos, but not for a medical diagnosis.

Edited to add: Or looking for a beefed up paper trail to make a better case to obtain disability entitlements.

I would be looking at other diagnoses if any of my clients showed that behavior.

 

As you know, I'm in the medical field, too, and, nearly every week, I see patients who have seen many, many physicians, sometimes over many years, with the same complaint.  In my case, it is usually pelvic pain and not breathing issues.  Many of these women have had battery after battery of tests, often repeated 2 or 3 times including surgeries such as laparoscopies.  They've seen urologists, gastroenterologist and gynecologists and, yet, despite all testing being negative; they continue to return again and again.  One doctor tells them that the testing is negative and perhaps suggests some counseling and they are off to find a new doctor who will validate their somatic complaints as being organ based.  Suggesting that stress, anxiety or depression might be at least contributing to their symptoms usually results in a tearful tirade against the medical profession trying to tell people they are crazy and drug them rather than diagnose their medical condition.  Many of them, like Jyn's daughter, have fixed their sights on a specific diagnosis and that is the one they want verified.  For JD, it's COPD; in my practice, it's endometriosis.

I can think of 2 patients I saw in just the past week who fit this scenario.  Remember, you're seeing the ones who do see out psychologic support. There are many others who never do, but instead go from gynecologist to gynecologist or pulmonologist to pulmonologist looking for a diagnosis that fits.

I also see the drug seekers and the disability searchers, but they're not the same.  This past week, I saw a pregnant woman who wanted disability filed because her feet hurt at the end of the day.  She doesn't have anxiety, just a job she doesn't like and a desire to stay home.  I suggested buying some better shoes since she was wearing flip flops from the dollar store, but she wasn't happy with that answer.

Edited June 20, 2020 by doodlebug

[Chicklet]

My particular patients have had mysterious pelvic pain and the other has mysterious breathing problems. The mysterious pelvic pain pt keeps asking for and having ex laps for this despite us telling her that it's probably not worth it and that OC's could help her more. The one with "breathing problems" was not asking for disability either, just has panic attacks that we have witnessed mind you ( and performed an entire workup at that time which was normal), and will not accept that she has anxiety. One patient refused counseling , the other went about twice then was too busy doing something else to attend. 

We screen for mental health issues on first visit and even thought they self-report issues, a great many decline help with those problems.

Edited June 20, 2020 by Chicklet

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, doodlebug said:

As you know, I'm in the medical field, too, and, nearly every week, I see patients who have seen many, many physicians, sometimes over many years, with the same complaint.  In my case, it is usually pelvic pain and not breathing issues.  Many of these women have had battery after battery of tests, often repeated 2 or 3 times including surgeries such as laparoscopies.  They've seen urologists, gastroenterologist and gynecologists and, yet, despite all testing being negative; they continue to return again and again.  One doctor tells them that the testing is negative and perhaps suggests some counseling and they are off to find a new doctor who will validate their somatic complaints as being organ based.  Suggesting that stress, anxiety or depression might be at least contributing to their symptoms usually results in a tearful tirade against the medical profession trying to tell people they are crazy and drug them rather than diagnose their medical condition. 

I can think of 2 patients I saw in just the past week who fit this scenario.  Remember, you're seeing the ones who do see out psychologic support. There are many others who never do, but instead go from gynecologist to gynecologist or pulmonologist to pulmonologist looking for a diagnosis that fits.

I also see the drug seekers and the disability searchers, but they're not the same.  This past week, I saw a pregnant woman who wanted disability filed because her feet hurt at the end of the day.  She doesn't have anxiety, just a job she doesn't like and a desire to stay home.  I suggested buying some better shoes since she was wearing flip flops from the dollar store, but she wasn't happy with that answer.

I've had few different positions during my career, 5 years of which were spent working in a PCP office. I also spent over 5 years in a partial hospitalization program. And 10 years working at the crisis unit which serves 5 counties.

So no, I don't only see folks who seek out treatment.

[doodlebug]

14 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I've had few different positions during my career, 5 years of which were spent working in a PCP office. I also spent over 5 years in a partial hospitalization program. And 10 years working at the crisis unit which serves 5 counties.

So no, I don't only see folks who seek out treatment.

Not sure why our patient populations are so different, then.  Interesting how that happens.

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, doodlebug said:

Not sure why our patient populations are so different, then.  Interesting how that happens.

I'm going to guess inaccurate diagnoses. If as you said, your patients haven't sought treatment, who is diagnosing them?

[doodlebug]

3 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm going to guess inaccurate diagnoses. If as you said, your patients haven't sought treatment, who is diagnosing them?

As noted above, every person seen in most doctors' offices these days is screened for mental health issues.  My employer requires screening every new patient and I personally screen established patients as needed.  I've been practicing 34 years, I can diagnose anxiety and depression and I can and do treat it.  Just like I can diagnose high blood pressure or obesity or diabetes even though those are not gynecologic diagnoses per se.

[Jynnan tonnix]

On the one hand, it's reassuring to hear that so many people seem to manifest anxiety in similar ways to my daughter, but it all still leaves me at a loss for how to best approach it, It sounds as though she may be setting off on a neverending cycle of doctors, miserable and barely functioning, affecting her daughter's behavior, driving her husband to drink, all in search of a diagnosis which doesn't exist. How do we nip it in the bud (or at least not in full-blown psychosis)?

We've tried being supportive, validating her concerns while also gently suggesting, once in a while, that anxiety can and does cause symptoms like hers, but that just results in, as @doodlebug said, a tearful tirade about how no one believes her or takes her seriously, followed by either retreating outside or into a dark room for the next few hours. Mr Jyn has tried a firmer approach, telling her she is too smart to close her mind the way she has, and that if she wants to control her doctors, she can start by getting control of herself. My mom is planning on having a talk with her about the life-threatening conditions she has been through and come out at the end of, 86 years old and still in reasonably good health and mostly good spirits despite all the pain she has to suffer. W'll have to wait and see if that has any effect. Her husband has been nothing but supportive, but is at the end of his rope with her constantly lashing out at him - everything he does is wrong lately...

Do we need to stage an intervention or something? Force her to seek psychiatric help? Is there any chance she will actually try that?

 

[doodlebug]

12 minutes ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

 

Do we need to stage an intervention or something? Force her to seek psychiatric help? Is there any chance she will actually try that?

 

Unless you feel she is an imminent threat to herself or others, you don't need to stage an intervention or force her into anything.  If she starts to talk about ending it all, wanting to die, etc; then you should seek help.  Your local mental health hotline is often quite useful.  My brother, who is bipolar, had his first breakdown about 40 years ago when I was still in med school.  I called the hotline and got excellent advice and support from a lovely woman to whom I am forever indebted.

For now, I think you need to listen to her, encourage her to do things, even if it is just sitting outdoors and watching her daughter play or having some iced tea with you.  Let her know you are concerned and you see she is suffering and want her to get better.  Remind her that the testing has been very reassuring thus far and she is on track to get that expert opinion she wants.  Your husband sounds like he has some skill in handling her fears.  Remind her that she is strong and smart and tough and that you and the rest of the family want to help in any way you can.  She may be having problems concentrating; but doing stuff like listening to music,  card games or jigsaw puzzles or watching a movie might distract her for a bit if she is able.  

ETA: not to be a downer, but, if there are meds in the home that could be harmful if taken in bulk, if you've got guns, etc. and you have any concern at all that she is thinking about harming herself; please put those things away where she won't find them.  Something as simple as moving meds from the medicine cabinet into a locked drawer or putting any firearms into a gun safe or even locking them in the trunk of the car is all that is needed.  When the police came to take my brother to the hospital for the first time, that was their advice.  We didn't have any guns, but the officer told us to move all the kitchen knives, scissors, etc; he suggested putting them in the freezer, so, if my brother got an impulse, he wouldn't be able to find them easily.  We did just that.

Edited June 20, 2020 by doodlebug

[galaxychaser]

So I have the worst luck ever. My dental appointment got canceled. They rescheduled me for Friday. I’m so pissed off and in pain. On Monday I’m going have to call every random office begging for an emergency tooth extraction. 
 

I can cry I’m in such pain. 
 

May you all have a better weekend than me.

 

P.S. Anyone else get insulted / bullied by the staff at a doctors office??? This week I got made fun of that I don’t have a smart watch or a fancy new iPhone and wouldn’t send my medications to my preferred pharmacy. Told me you are fat you need the excersize and send my meds to the wrong pharmacy on purpose. And send some/wrong meds. I’m so mad. I don’t have most of my meds at all. 
 

Rant over.

[CherryMalotte]

5 minutes ago, galaxychaser said:

This week I got made fun of that I don’t have a smart watch or a fancy new iPhone and wouldn’t send my medications to my preferred pharmacy. Told me you are fat you need the excersize and send my meds to the wrong pharmacy on purpose. And send some/wrong meds. I’m so mad. I don’t have most of my meds at all. 

That's highly unprofessional.  I would lodge a complaint against the staff.  I don't have an Iphone or smart watch, there's nothing wrong with that - have other things to do with my day than play with a phone.  The next time you are in there if they are being asses about where to send your meds ask for the paper script and then take it there yourself.  

I wish I had some absolute advice for you Jyannan tonnix but it's always a hard guess - we had a mental health episode with our daughter last December that ended with a hospital stay.  I was scared big time.  Now I will say it did help in the end because she is finally on what seems to be the right drug combo, and her therapy is going well.  It did take awhile to get there though, there's no instant fix with our brains.  I know it's hard hard hard but be as patient as you can, and as firm as you need to be.  If you and your husband need to seek help in finding ways to deal with her I'd strongly encourage that, and her husband as well.  This will be an ongoing work in progress for the whole family.      

 

[galaxychaser]

5 minutes ago, CherryMalotte said:

That's highly unprofessional.  I would lodge a complaint against the staff.  I don't have an Iphone or smart watch, there's nothing wrong with that - have other things to do with my day than play with a phone.  The next time you are in there if they are being asses about where to send your meds ask for the paper script and then take it there yourself.  

I wish I had some absolute advice for you Jyannan tonnix but it's always a hard guess - we had a mental health episode with our daughter last December that ended with a hospital stay.  I was scared big time.  Now I will say it did help in the end because she is finally on what seems to be the right drug combo, and her therapy is going well.  It did take awhile to get there though, there's no instant fix with our brains.  I know it's hard hard hard but be as patient as you can, and as firm as you need to be.  If you and your husband need to seek help in finding ways to deal with her I'd strongly encourage that, and her husband as well.  This will be an ongoing work in progress for the whole family.      

 

In NY there are no more paper prescriptions everything is digital. 

[GeeGolly]

42 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

As noted above, every person seen in most doctors' offices these days is screened for mental health issues.  My employer requires screening every new patient and I personally screen established patients as needed.  I've been practicing 34 years, I can diagnose anxiety and depression and I can and do treat it.  Just like I can diagnose high blood pressure or obesity or diabetes even though those are not gynecologic diagnoses per se.

Do you use any screening tools like a PHQ-9? Because alone they can flag an issue but they really can't be used to diagnose. I've been diagnosing and treating mental health issues for over 30 years.

With no offense to the medical community, I've had many clients come to me misdiagnosed. Many don't go by DSM criteria and more go by feel and superficial symptoms reported by their patients. I can't tell you how many clients (in the high 100s) who would tell me they've been diagnosed as bipolar when they weren't. Or Hispanic folks being diagnosed with schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder when they truly had ataque de nervios. Or folks given dysthymia and or general anxiety diagnoses when really they were experiencing an adjustment disorder.

One of the most rewarding part of being embedded in the PCP office was working side by side with MDs, APRNs and PAs. Our collaboration made all of us better in our roles and more importantly, better served our patients. 

[emma675]

Jynnan, I don't have any good advice, but I'm thinking and praying for you and your daughter. Obsessively focusing on a percieved medical issue to the point of lying in a dark room for hours and lashing out at loved ones is not normal behavior and has to be so exhausting and frustrating for you. Please feel free to vent and cry and let it out here, we're here for you. 

[GeeGolly]

@Jynnan tonnix, because your daughter's situation seems to be becoming more intense, I'm going to bow out, as it feels very inappropriate at this point to for me to be advising you. I suggest you reach out to NAMI for support and advice.

[madpsych78]

13 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Do you use any screening tools like a PHQ-9? Because alone they can flag an issue but they really can't be used to diagnose. I've been diagnosing and treating mental health issues for over 30 years.

With no offense to the medical community, I've had many clients come to me misdiagnosed. Many don't go by DSM criteria and more go by feel and superficial symptoms reported by their patients. I can't tell you how many clients (in the high 100s) who would tell me they've been diagnosed as bipolar when they weren't. Or Hispanic folks being diagnosed with schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder when they truly had ataque de nervios. Or folks given dysthymia and or general anxiety diagnoses when really they were experiencing an adjustment disorder.

One of the most rewarding part of being embedded in the PCP office was working side by side with MDs, APRNs and PAs. Our collaboration made all of us better in our roles and more importantly, better served our patients. 

I will just briefly weigh in as I am also in mental health, albeit primarily with the pediatric population (school psychology/pediatric neuropsychology). Geegolly is absolutely correct.  

Also, there are a variety of anxiety disorders and so they have a variety of symptoms and presentations. Illness Anxiety Disorder is actually in a different section of the DSM-5 (i.e., Somatic Symptom and Related Disorders) than other anxiety disorders.  

By the way, there are two subtypes of Illness Anxiety Disorder: Care-seeking and care-avoiding. In other words, some individuals with IAD are obsessive about seeking medical care (i.e., care-seeking) and others with IAD avoid medical care altogether.

[galaxychaser]

@Jynnan tonnix I have no advice I’m not a doctor but from personal experience I talked myself into such deep depression I scared myself. A brain is a fascinating organ that’s for sure. 
 

I really hope that your daughter is physically healthy. 
 

 

[MunichNark]

Jynnantonix, all, if I come across as blunt and direct, apologies. I AM German after all...

I'm someone who deals with severe anxiety and has done for nigh on 40 years now. I've had every physical symptom under the sun, such as back pain, general pain, headaches, needing the loo every 5 minutes, shortness of breath, nausea, gagging, heart trouble, you name it, I've probably had it.  That's what anxiety does to you.

Due to my history (a "nice" Doctor telling me nonsense back in the day when I was young and dinosaurs roamed the earth),  I am always terrified of my heart giving out. I cannot even count the amount of tests I've had and there is nothing wrong with it, yet the fear will crop up quite regularly .Again, that is anxiety. I've had it for over 35 years.

Your daughter will not just snap out of it, respond to reason or just magically get better. I don't know what her problems are, but she has issues. Major issues.

You won't solve this by talking to her, reassuring her, grumbling, or any other kind of talk. She literally cannot respond or change her behaviour. The more you tell her to cop on, wise up or just grow up, the worse she'll feel.

Now if she were German, I'd tell her to go to a psychiatrist (only they can prescribe medication here) and then look up a therapist pronto to start therapy. I don't know what your system is like or able to do, but I'd suggest that's what she would do well to do.

I feel deeply for her and you, I really do, but this isn't going to get any better without help. Please stop the Xanax immediately ,they are highly addictive and very dangerous. They are not meant to long term help. I take them when I must fly  - no more than twice a year max as they are so very dangerous.

Fingers crossed that things will improve very soon. Again, sorry if my posts comes across a somewhat blunt

 

 

 

[BetyBee]

3 hours ago, galaxychaser said:

So I have the worst luck ever. My dental appointment got canceled. They rescheduled me for Friday. I’m so pissed off and in pain. On Monday I’m going have to call every random office begging for an emergency tooth extraction. 
 

I can cry I’m in such pain. 
 

May you all have a better weekend than me.

 

P.S. Anyone else get insulted / bullied by the staff at a doctors office??? This week I got made fun of that I don’t have a smart watch or a fancy new iPhone and wouldn’t send my medications to my preferred pharmacy. Told me you are fat you need the excersize and send my meds to the wrong pharmacy on purpose. And send some/wrong meds. I’m so mad. I don’t have most of my meds at all. 
 

Rant over.

Galaxychaser, you need to be seen asap for your dental pain! Can you find another dentist, perhaps someone a friend goes to? As for being bullied and intentionally sending scrips to the wrong pharmacy, that is inexcusable! I hate that you have been so badly mistreated. Hugs!  

[Scarlett45]

I went to Costco today- it was less than pleasant but it was my fault for not being their at opening. I’m going back to my prime now delivery until my next Costco trip- likely the end of August. There are other ways I’d like to spend my free time. 

[Oldernowiser]

JNT, do I remember correctly that your daughter is a vegetarian? If she is and she’s not supplementing B12, here are the symptoms of a deficiency (from WebMD):

“Symptoms of Vitamin B12 Deficiency

If you have vitamin B12 deficiency, you could become anemic. A mild deficiency may cause no symptoms. But if untreated, it may lead to symptoms such as:

Weakness, tiredness, or lightheadedness

Heart palpitations and shortness of breath

Pale skin

A smooth tongue

Constipation, diarrhea, loss of appetite, or gas 

Nerve problems like numbness or tingling, muscle weakness, and problems walking

Vision loss

Mental problems like depression, memory loss, or behavioral changes.”

 

Just throwing that out there...so sorry you are going through this. Maybe she’d find an alternative medicine provider a better fit?

Edited June 20, 2020 by Oldernowiser

[doodlebug]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Do you use any screening tools like a PHQ-9? Because alone they can flag an issue but they really can't be used to diagnose. I've been diagnosing and treating mental health issues for over 30 years.

With no offense to the medical community, I've had many clients come to me misdiagnosed. Many don't go by DSM criteria and more go by feel and superficial symptoms reported by their patients. I can't tell you how many clients (in the high 100s) who would tell me they've been diagnosed as bipolar when they weren't. Or Hispanic folks being diagnosed with schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder when they truly had ataque de nervios. Or folks given dysthymia and or general anxiety diagnoses when really they were experiencing an adjustment disorder.

One of the most rewarding part of being embedded in the PCP office was working side by side with MDs, APRNs and PAs. Our collaboration made all of us better in our roles and more importantly, better served our patients. 

While I might refer people to a mental health professional with suspected BPD or otherwise; I would never presume to make that diagnosis or treat it myself.  That doesn't mean I cannot tell when a patient needs to seek mental healthcare.  I refer patients to other medical subspecialties all the time when their problems exceed my expertise.  However, depression and anxiety are very common issues for many people and I do feel comfortable at least initiating treatment for those things with patients who are willing.

It does sound to me like the medical professionals who have referred patients to you may have misdiagnoses them, but they were not mistaken in thinking that a mental health consult was indicated.  I get patients referred to me by other healthcare professionals who have tentatively diagnosed a gynecologic condition; sometimes they're right, sometimes they are wrong; but they were correct in sending the patient on to someone with more expertise and I would never put them down for it.

[doodlebug]

5 hours ago, galaxychaser said:

So I have the worst luck ever. My dental appointment got canceled. They rescheduled me for Friday. I’m so pissed off and in pain. On Monday I’m going have to call every random office begging for an emergency tooth extraction. 
 

I can cry I’m in such pain. 
 

May you all have a better weekend than me.

 

P.S. Anyone else get insulted / bullied by the staff at a doctors office??? This week I got made fun of that I don’t have a smart watch or a fancy new iPhone and wouldn’t send my medications to my preferred pharmacy. Told me you are fat you need the excersize and send my meds to the wrong pharmacy on purpose. And send some/wrong meds. I’m so mad. I don’t have most of my meds at all. 
 

Rant over.

Contact the office and ask if there is an Ombudsman for patient complaints.  If they're part of a big practice, there probably is someone who handles this stuff.  Certainly, if the office staff deliberately misdirected your medications preventing you from accessing needed treatment; someone needs to investigate and take action.

As others have noted, sending prescriptions to the pharmacy electronically is the standard these days because it is fast, effective and helps to prevent errors since everything is printed out and there's no handwriting to decipher.  Also the computer program has standard dosages and schedules written right into it and that prevents a practitioner from making errors.  There are some places where it is the law and written prescriptions are just not done.  Calling prescriptions to a pharmacy has also become increasingly rare and some doctors' offices don't have staff available to do it.

[GeeGolly]

20 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

While I might refer people to a mental health professional with suspected BPD or otherwise; I would never presume to make that diagnosis or treat it myself.  That doesn't mean I cannot tell when a patient needs to seek mental healthcare.  I refer patients to other medical subspecialties all the time when their problems exceed my expertise.  However, depression and anxiety are very common issues for many people and I do feel comfortable at least initiating treatment for those things with patients who are willing.

It does sound to me like the medical professionals who have referred patients to you may have misdiagnoses them, but they were not mistaken in thinking that a mental health consult was indicated.  I get patients referred to me by other healthcare professionals who have tentatively diagnosed a gynecologic condition; sometimes they're right, sometimes they are wrong; but they were correct in sending the patient on to someone with more expertise and I would never put them down for it.

Of the many misdiagnosed clients I've seen, not all were referred by the medical practitioner that diagnosed them. I've had more than a few clients who were diagnosed with anxiety and depression, were started on an SSRI, which induced a manic episode, and ended with a inpatient stay. I have many clients who were "just not getting better" and sought help from behavioral specialists on recommendations from friends and family, as well. I've also had many referrals and collaborations in which the medical practitioners were on point.

You sound like a very caring, experienced and sound practitioner Doodlebug. I'm just more comfortable with behavioral health providers providing mental health help and medical practitioners providing physical health help. After all, there are specialists for just about every part of the human body for a reason, so we can all become experts with defined skills, knowledge and abilities.

 

[galaxychaser]

2 hours ago, BetyBee said:

Galaxychaser, you need to be seen asap for your dental pain! Can you find another dentist, perhaps someone a friend goes to? As for being bullied and intentionally sending scrips to the wrong pharmacy, that is inexcusable! I hate that you have been so badly mistreated. Hugs!  

Monday I’m going to call any dentist I find on google. 
 

im switching doctors this was the final nail in the coffin. The staff is so rude and nasty to me it’s not even funny. 

[CherryMalotte]

5 hours ago, galaxychaser said:

In NY there are no more paper prescriptions everything is digital. 

I'm surprised by that - here in Illinois I can still get a paper script if needed.  I have most of my meds mail order but have still occasionally had a script, depending on the drug.  My particular group does either/or, whatever you need done.

[Marshmallow Mollie]

When I went to the dr years ago, she presented it as: let’s get you set up with a therapist and medication WHILE we are figuring out the medical part and waiting for test results. 
 

My husband had pneumonia over Thanksgiving, and he went back to the dr in January because he was still having chest tightness and thought he had not recovered  from the pneumonia. Turns out, like many others here, he had GERD. We were both surprised and had never considered it wasn’t his lungs.

@Jynnan tonnix I wonder if there is a way to present to your daughter that she address her current terrible quality of life with medication and therapy while she gets it figured out why she doesn’t feel like she can breathe. 
 

In any case, I think it is so nice you have been offering to watch the baby and provide support to their family. 

[Temperance]

2 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

JNT, do I remember correctly that your daughter is a vegetarian? If she is and she’s not supplementing B12, here are the symptoms of a deficiency (from WebMD):

“Symptoms of Vitamin B12 Deficiency

If you have vitamin B12 deficiency, you could become anemic. A mild deficiency may cause no symptoms. But if untreated, it may lead to symptoms such as:

Weakness, tiredness, or lightheadedness

Heart palpitations and shortness of breath

Pale skin

A smooth tongue

Constipation, diarrhea, loss of appetite, or gas 

Nerve problems like numbness or tingling, muscle weakness, and problems walking

Vision loss

Mental problems like depression, memory loss, or behavioral changes.”

 

Just throwing that out there...so sorry you are going through this. Maybe she’d find an alternative medicine provider a better fit?

Yeah I take Vitamins B-12 and D. I take over the counter stuff, but based what my PA and APRN recommended.   I agree this is common. (I'm not vegetarian so B-12 deficiency can happen to anyone.)

I also lots of people are getting false negatives on their COVID tests.

I have had good doctors, but also enough bad experiences that this thread is making anxious and upset. Doctors are too dismissive or judgmental with patients and this contributes to people losing faith in the medical system. I think they're too quick sometimes to write things off as mental health issues. 

[GeeGolly]

27 minutes ago, Temperance said:

Yeah I take Vitamins B-12 and D. I take over the counter stuff, but based what my PA and APRN recommended.   I agree this is common. (I'm not vegetarian so B-12 deficiency can happen to anyone.)

I also lots of people are getting false negatives on their COVID tests.

I have had good doctors, but also enough bad experiences that this thread is making anxious and upset. Doctors are too dismissive or judgmental with patients and this contributes to people losing faith in the medical system. I think they're too quick sometimes to write things off as mental health issues. 

I hear you about this thread making you anxious. If my opinion matters at all, I wouldn't worry about you. You seem very practical and information oriented. If an MD or therapist wasn't doing right by you, you'd figure it out and move on.

[Scarlett45]

On 6/17/2020 at 6:35 PM, Scarlett45 said:

I feel like a GENIUS!!!!
I realized why Mr Norris (my cat) was having accidents.

He's trying to cross the house to make it to the low entry litter box rather than use the taller ones on the other side of the house by my bedroom/home office where I am all day. He’s trying to stay by me. 

I just need to order a second low entry box and "show him"(I don't know how well he can see) that it's changed 
I don't want to move them/switch them because I don't think he can see that far and  if he walks across the house and it's tall he may get confused poor guy.

 

This is so simple and you all told me but it dawned on me why he’s always so far away from the litter box he’s trying to use!

So to follow up- I changed out the litter box, and “showed” him the new low entry one in the spot of the tall one. Let’s see if he stops having accidents. I also bought new litter mats cause I figured it was time. 
 

He went back to nap on his pillow. 

[magpye29]

On 6/14/2020 at 1:13 PM, doodlebug said:

Yes, my Catholic church requires that everyone have a mask in place the entire time they are inside the building.  We're allowed to receive communion in our hand, step aside to a designated area to remove the mask and swallow the host, replace the mask and then return to our seats.

We have communion like that at my church, but it's after the final blessing and the end of mass.  The ushers tell us when we can go up, and we get the host then boogie out the nearest door.  It's so very strange.

[Barb23]

I have worked in a few medical offices.  The staff was never allowed to send a prescription to a pharmacy electronically even if was for a minor error.  It was always the provider that sent them. Maybe the staff put down a different pharmacy than you requested (deliberately or not) or it could be doctor error. 

My rheumatologist has sent my prescriptions to the wrong pharmacy on numerous occasions even though I give the office and him the correct info.  It's not on purpose,  he just sees the name of the road (which has many different pharmacies on it) and picks one.  This has happened after hours & during an appt with no office staff involved. He has gotten better in recent months.

@galaxychaser, so sorry to hear your appt was cancelled. Good luck in finding someone that can see you ASAP.  I agree with the others that you shouldn't have been treated  the way you were.  

[doodlebug]

3 hours ago, Barb23 said:

I have worked in a few medical offices.  The staff was never allowed to send a prescription to a pharmacy electronically even if was for a minor error.  It was always the provider that sent them. Maybe the staff put down a different pharmacy than you requested (deliberately or not) or it could be doctor error. 

My rheumatologist has sent my prescriptions to the wrong pharmacy on numerous occasions even though I give the office and him the correct info.  It's not on purpose,  he just sees the name of the road (which has many different pharmacies on it) and picks one.  This has happened after hours & during an appt with no office staff involved. He has gotten better in recent months.

@galaxychaser, so sorry to hear your appt was cancelled. Good luck in finding someone that can see you ASAP.  I agree with the others that you shouldn't have been treated  the way you were.  

It is against the law for anyone to write or escript or call in a prescription without approval from a provider with prescriptive authority.  It doesn't matter if the patient changes their mind about which pharmacy to send it to, if it is a med they have taken for years, if they have seen this doctor for years.  Every time anyone calls the doctor's office and asks for a prescription, it has to be approved by a provider who is legally licensed to prescribe it.  Every day in my office, I receive multiple requests from established patients for prescriptions.  Usually, they're running out of their birth control or need prenatals, but sometimes other things, especially for pregnant patients.  This past Friday, I was the only one of the 4 docs and a physician assistant who work in our office who was actually working and I must've approved at least 20 prescriptions of all sorts while covering.  Every single request goes to a nurse who forwards it to the doctor.  Once I handle it, she can then call the patient and tell them it's been done.

It is possible that the reason Galaxy Chaser's dentist's office staff couldn't do anything about the prescriptions sent to the wrong pharmacy is because the dentist was gone for the day and they couldn't get approval to do it.

Galaxy Chaser, I live in a midwestern city only a fraction the size of NYC, but I know of several dental clinics within a few miles of me who take emergencies and walk ins.  A lot of the chains like Aspen dental are set up to provide care evenings and weekends.  I'm surprised that an option like that isn't available for you.

Edited June 21, 2020 by doodlebug

[crazy8s]

so given a pandemic and our kids live far away - we saw neither for father's day. In talking with our neighbor this morning she was appalled they were not coming here or we were not invited somewhere to "honor the patriarch"

I said we don't think like that. we have never put emotions and effort into mandated holidays.

but seriously we are in SE Michigan with a one adult child in eastern NY state and one in western MI with DIL an OB with covid patients still.  we have not seen the grandkids since valentines day.

to see them now to "honor the patriarch" would be the most ridiculous reason to travel or see the kids after the months spent being safe for us and for them

Edited June 21, 2020 by crazy8s

[galaxychaser]

Haha

 

 

Edited June 22, 2020 by galaxychaser

[emma675]

I hope everyone had a nice father's day if you celebrate or a nice Sunday if you don't.

I'm hopeful this week will be quieter than the last few at work. It's funny how I used to think working from home would be much less stressful than being in the office, but it's not. I dont know why I thought that, lol.

Jenniferbug, I hope your first day back goes smoothly!

[galaxychaser]

11 hours ago, Barb23 said:

I have worked in a few medical offices.  The staff was never allowed to send a prescription to a pharmacy electronically even if was for a minor error.  It was always the provider that sent them. Maybe the staff put down a different pharmacy than you requested (deliberately or not) or it could be doctor error. 

My rheumatologist has sent my prescriptions to the wrong pharmacy on numerous occasions even though I give the office and him the correct info.  It's not on purpose,  he just sees the name of the road (which has many different pharmacies on it) and picks one.  This has happened after hours & during an appt with no office staff involved. He has gotten better in recent months.

@galaxychaser, so sorry to hear your appt was cancelled. Good luck in finding someone that can see you ASAP.  I agree with the others that you shouldn't have been treated  the way you were.  

Thanks. 
 

 

[doodlebug]

On 6/19/2020 at 7:10 PM, sixlets said:

 

My jaw is still on the floor after reading doodle's post 24 hours later.  That thriving metropolis is also my hometown.  I have been able to trace bits and pieces of my family tree to 6 generations dating back to the 1760s. Apparently, we're a hearty bunch of folks!  I get excited when I talk to someone who has heard of Blairsville, but I never 'met' anyone online who has family from the area.  It's truly a small (but scary) world! 

 

 

 

Wow!  My mom would be so excited!  I spent many a summer vacation in Indiana, PA.  Used to go to the movies on Philadelphia Street.  Also Mass at the church there.   My aunt and uncle lived on S. 4th on the edge of town.  I have even seen Stewart's Hardware although I am pretty sure it is no more.  My mom used to tell us how, when she was a little girl, Mr. Stewart displayed his boy Jimmy's Oscar in the window for all to see.  I have even been to the Jimmy Stewart Airport which I know probably makes you jealous. 

My uncle was a coal miner who owned a piece of the family farm out in Shelocta where he raised Christmas trees on the side (that area was known as the Christmas tree capital of the US).  My older sister and I used to join my cousins out there trimming trees in the hot summer sun.  We'd have to wear jeans and long sleeves because the sap was so irritating.  Good times.  We cut our own tree at Thanksgiving and took it back to Cleveland more than once.  My cousin, who was also a miner until the mines closed, built his home on the family farm and raised Christmas trees too, until his kids were out of college.  Needless to say, neither one of his kids stayed on the farm.

A few years back, two of my sisters and I went back for a visit and my cousin took us around to a bunch of little church cemeteries looking for family graves.  We were most excited to find the grave of my great-great grandfather who served in the Union Army in the Civil War and told my grandfather how he voted in his first presidential election on the battlefield as they passed the ballots and a pencil down the line.  He voted for Lincoln.  First election allowing absentee ballots to be cast.

Edited June 22, 2020 by doodlebug

[Zella]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

Wow!  My mom would be so excited!  I spent many a summer vacation in Indiana, PA.  Used to go to the movies on Philadelphia Street.  Also Mass at the church there.   My aunt and uncle lived on S. 4th on the edge of town.  I have even seen Stewart's Hardware although I am pretty sure it is no more.  My mom used to tell us how, when she was a little girl, Mr. Stewart displayed his boy Jimmy's Oscar in the window for all to see.  I have even been to the Jimmy Stewart Airport which I know probably makes you jealous. 

My uncle was a coal miner who owned a piece of the family farm out in Shelocta where he raised Christmas trees on the side (that area was known as the Christmas tree capital of the US).  My older sister and I used to join my cousins out there trimming trees in the hot summer sun.  We'd have to wear jeans and long sleeves because the sap was so irritating.  Good times.  We cut our own tree at Thanksgiving and took it back to Cleveland more that once.  My cousin, who was also a miner until the mines closed, built his home on the family farm and raised Christmas trees too, until his kids were out of college.  Needless to say, neither one of his kids stayed on the farm.

A few years back, two of my sisters and I went back for a visit and my cousin took us around to a bunch of little church cemeteries looking for family graves.  We were most excited to find the grave of my great-great grandfather who served in the Union Army in the Civil War and told my grandfather how he voted in his first presidential election on the battlefield as they passed the ballots and a pencil down the line.  He voted for Lincoln.  First election allowing absentee ballots to be cast.

That's really cool--Do you know what regiment he was in? I'm a little obsessed with Civil War regimental histories. LOL

[doodlebug]

14 minutes ago, Zella said:

That's really cool--Do you know what regiment he was in? I'm a little obsessed with Civil War regimental histories. LOL

61st Pennsylvania Volunteer Infantry, Company B. Part of the Army of the Potomac.  He joined after Gettysburg, but fought at the Wilderness, Cold Harbor, Petersburg and other places; and was present at Appomattox Courthouse when Lee surrendered.

Edited June 22, 2020 by doodlebug

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

61st Pennsylvania Volunteer Infantry, Company B. Part of the Army of the Potomac.  He joined after Gettysburg, but fought at the Wilderness, Cold Harbor, Petersburg and other places; and was present at Appomattox Courthouse when Lee surrendered.

Very cool--thank you!

[Jenniferbug]

15 hours ago, emma675 said:

I hope everyone had a nice father's day if you celebrate or a nice Sunday if you don't.

I'm hopeful this week will be quieter than the last few at work. It's funny how I used to think working from home would be much less stressful than being in the office, but it's not. I dont know why I thought that, lol.

Jenniferbug, I hope your first day back goes smoothly!

Thank you! You're so kind 😊 I think I've spent as much time on the phone with IT as I have doing actual work today, but I guess it makes for an easy first day back to work. Fingers crossed your week will be low stress!

I hope everyone is having a good day! 

[Love2dance]

@galaxychaser, were you able to see a dentist today? I really hope you are feeling better.
 

 

[galaxychaser]

2 minutes ago, Love2dance said:

@galaxychaser, were you able to see a dentist today? I really hope you are feeling better.
 

 

No. Friday is my appointment.

[Love2dance]

@galaxychaser, oh dear, I was hoping someone could fit you in. Hang in there.