S01.E09: Kill Me, Kill Me, Kill Me

[bantering]

I thought Connor and Michaela sort of got lured into the plan by Laurel's words. Something about the way Laurel communicated to them seemed to convince them to go along with the plan. She was thinking like a lawyer, and the lawyerly explanations seemed to get to them. Why Laurel is so invested in Rebecca not being a victim, I'm not sure however.

 

I did think the show did a good job of explaining how they all managed to get roped into this mess though -- they were too busy thinking like law students rather than normal human beings who might do the most obvious thing (i.e call the police). 

Edited November 21, 2014 by bantering

[Gardencrown]

 

Loved the episode, even if 90% of it was what we've already seen. That ending was completely worth it.

Yeah, most of the episode felt like an extended version of "Last week on How to Get Away with Murder..." We were ten minutes before the end, and my daughter and I are like, "We already know most all of this!"

 

And I'm gonna have to disagree with the majority and say that the ending was a big ole pile of meh to me. I already knew that Annalise is conniving. I suspected that she hated Sam, even more after their fight in this episode. I thought that the phone call to his voice mail rang false, because I just don't see Annalise or, well, ANYONE...leaving that message after the things he said. Not surprised that Wes was, in part, doing her bidding that night...I guess I wanted a real WOW moment -- something completely unexpected or out of character (such as these cardboard characters are), some reveal that showed a completely new and different aspect to this case. To me, this episode was just more of the same.

 

I still suspect that Wes could be evil. I don't think Laurel is overly calm -- I just don't think that the actress has much range. I don't think we have satisfied the issue of who actually killed Lila, but it had better not be Sam or I'm going to fall asleep...even if the baby belongs to Sam, it sure doesn't prove he killed her.

 

I'm willing to sacrifice a deal of reality and character depth for a tightly plotted twisty-turny punch-you-in-the-gut story. But to me -- this ain't it. Color me disappointed.

[blackwing]

For some reason, Wes became more likeable to me when I realized he was doing Annalise's bidding rather than Rebecca's. Annalise might be kind of weird, but she seems to have some semblance of brains that Rebecca does not (uh, i think....for now).

Is it really Annalise's bidding though?  She certainly didn't ask him to kill her husband.  Everything up until that point was all Wes.  She may have convinced him (offscreen) to get rid of the body (hence why he faked the coin flip after retrieving the trophy) but she certainly didn't encourage the killing of Sam, at least not from what we saw.

 

I hated Wes even before the coin flip.  Especially the part right after the killing when he takes her upstairs and oh-so-tenderly mops the blood off of her face.  Why couldn't she do it herself?  Was she catatonic and stunned because Sam was choking her?  He couldn't just tell her to take a shower?  Shouldn't he have been in more shock?  He just killed a man.

 

If there is a Season 2 and this Rebecca is still on the show, I'm out.  I don't care if she is innocent of Lila's killing and Annalise hires her as her secretary.  If she's in any way still on the show, I'm done.

 

I do think it would be an interesting twist if Annalise is Lila's killer.  Seems unlikely.  She seemed genuinely unaware of the fact that Sam was sleeping with Lila and that Lila was pregnant.  I suppose she'd have to be extremely cold and a good actress, and it is possible of course.  When we saw her crying despondently into Sam's voicemail (knowing full well that he was dead), I truly believed she was worried and sad and wanted him back.  

 

I'm wondering if the show would actually go there... to make the lead character a cold killer.  That'd definitely be a lot different than the usual stuff on TV, Dexter notwithstanding.

[RockyHorror64]

Kill me. Kill me. Kill me. was exactly how I felt watching this mess of a show. I wanted to love it so much. Viola is amazing as is the hunk who plays her husband (RIP). The younger people I have no idea who they are. They aren't horrible, but definitely not up to Viola standard of acting yet. Shonda Rhimes makes me want to punch her in the face with this shit show. I gave up on Scandal also. There are no characters to root for at all in either show. These are horrible horrible people who do horrible things and get away with it. Yet. I will be back to watch in January because I'm just a sucka like that. lol.

[GaiusB]

I do not like the final reveal. It is waste of opportunity not to have K4+R  lie to Annalise while she mad crazy about what happened with Sam in the second half of the season. They still can do part of it with Connor, Laurel and Michaela, but it will not have same punch as if they would lie to the face of a broken woman. Making her a manipulator is cheesy. I atleast hope it only started when she found Wes by Sam body. Any long term planning would be silly, nobody can possibly make a perfect plan with such huge amount of irrational behavior of so many characters.

 

Laurel is stil a cypher, but i have now an explanation for her behavior. Not sure if it is really what writers intend..., but for me she just went along with others because it is the first time in her boring life when she feel some excitement. It would also explain why she so protective of Wes and his relationship with Rebecca. She find it romantic, i am sure she would be much more appreciative to  Wes and his white-knighting then Rebecca is. For the same reason she find Bad Boy Frank more exciting then her Perfect Boyfriend. The girl just want have some excitement in her life. She is rich so she is not all that interested in lawyer career as  social climber Michaela is and a possibility of ruining her career does not bother her so much.

[LydiaMoon1]

You know, as much as I want to support a Shonda Rhimes show and a Viola Davis vehicle......I don't really like this show.  I don't really like the characters. I'm not crazy about the storytelling.  I'm not invested in the murder mystery.  I WANT to like it. So far though......I just don't.

[Neurochick]

The most contrived bit for me (and that's a hard call) was Sam's evil reveal speech. If he really truly felt that way about Annalise, why would he've married her/stayed with her? That lazy attempt to last-minute villainize (like REALLY villainize) him to justify our main characters murdering him was so cheap.

 

 

To me, that part rang very true.  An old friend married a man who stayed with her because it made him look liberal.  She didn't know that of course, until he had a little too much to drink one night and ended up spilling all kinds of nasty shit about how their son looked racially and she was totally caught off guard, she said she was so stunned she couldn't even speak, and he said it in front of family.  Ugh.

[CaughtOnTape]

I think image is important to a lot of people and even though it's not for me, I can totally see Sam being so caught up in how people saw him that he would marry and stay with a woman he didn't really give a shit about.  It wasn't like he stayed faithful to her either so....in his mind, no harm, no foul.  On the surface he was a happily married man, married to a powerful black attorney and to the outside world that heightened his image to others.  No one had to know what a real asshole he was.  And when Annalise wouldn't tow the line and believe his crap anymore then it all came out.

[Neurochick]

At the end of the episode, when the garbage picks up the bags that contain Sam's body, you can see something left behind, on the side of the dumpster that probably fell out of the bag, something shiny; at first I thought it was a piece of foil, but when I looked again it looked more like a ring, and then the next scene was Michaela and her would be mother in law.  

Edited November 21, 2014 by Neurochick

[kikaha]

Loved the episode, even if 90% of it was what we've already seen. That ending was completely worth it.

Knew the puppy was an evil mastermind! Also, I still think laurel has the possibility of being involved somehow. She conned Frank with ease.

Farewell, Sam, you deliciously despicable man! I will miss your evilness gracing our screens.

Sam was more a stupid tool than evil.  Of course I don't believe Sam killed Lila, or anyone.  His main sin is using his position of authority to seduce impressionable young women.  

 

The truly evil person in this show is his wife.  Annalise.  She constantly breaks the law... plants evidence... manipulates others into breaking the law for her... may well have committed murder... and is a mastermind at controlling those who admire her.  She's also incredibly two-faced, a hypocrite who cheats regularly on her husband, but goes into a rage when she learns he cheated on her. 

 

It's really fun to watch her!

 

The name of the show is How to get away with Murder.  Will they indeed do that? 

[Neurochick]

After what Sam said to Annalise, I can't say that she's evil.  What Sam said to her was ugly, especially considering the stereotype of white men just using black women for sex and black women stereotyped as hypersexual.  It was so ugly that it made me ill.  If someone said that to me, he'd be gone seven ways past Sunday.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Neurochick

[Sandman]

Admittedly, I haven't been watching regularly but I tuned in for THE SHOCKING TWIST! and I have to say I really believe Sam did kill Lila, after all. Wouldn't he have denied it while he was near-strangling Annalise in the confrontation scene that gives the episode its title? He didn't seem to disagree with Annalise's conclusion that the murder actually turned him on. I found that whole conversation revolting, and I agree that for Sam to flip instantly from "You know me, Annie, I'm not a violent person!" to "I'm going to choke the life outta you, you foul slut!" is cheap, lazy writing.

 

This show seems to have been built around maximizing the weekly twist, from its serpentine time structure to pretty much every character making the worst, most short-sighted decision at any given moment. I don't think it should Get Away With a second season, frankly. Also, thanks for making Liza Weill's character into a boring twit, show. Paris Geller deserves better, dang it!

Edited November 21, 2014 by Sandman

[scarletregina]

I do think it would be an interesting twist if Annalise is Lila's killer.  Seems unlikely.  She seemed genuinely unaware of the fact that Sam was sleeping with Lila and that Lila was pregnant.  I suppose she'd have to be extremely cold and a good actress, and it is possible of course.  When we saw her crying despondently into Sam's voicemail (knowing full well that he was dead), I truly believed she was worried and sad and wanted him back.  

 

I'm wondering if the show would actually go there... to make the lead character a cold killer.  That'd definitely be a lot different than the usual stuff on TV, Dexter notwithstanding.

 

 

I truly believe this is where the show will go and the show will continue on like nothing happened. I think the title of the show is a big clue to how this "mystery" ends.

Edited November 21, 2014 by scarletregina

[bantering]

Is it really Annalise's bidding though?  She certainly didn't ask him to kill her husband.  Everything up until that point was all Wes.  She may have convinced him (offscreen) to get rid of the body (hence why he faked the coin flip after retrieving the trophy) but she certainly didn't encourage the killing of Sam, at least not from what we saw.

 

 

 

 

I thought he was doing her bidding in the sense of actually covering up the murder -- of course, he gets something out of it since he actually did the murder!

 

Had Annalise not been around, I figure he would have done the logical thing and probably gone to the police since he had a case for self-defence. He's trying to cover himself, and therefore deferring to Annalise's lawyerly "wisdom" on how not to get caught, but in the end, I'm glad he's not doing all of this illogical stuff for Rebecca!, because that would just be completely weird. Nobody's girlfriend or boyfriend is worth this amount of trouble.  Well, heck, nobody's wife or husband is worth any of this, so that's where Annalise trying to protect her husband was sort of strange to me too.

 

Anyway, iIt makes more sense that Wes would do all of this illogical sense for himself, and is able to do so because he's following the "wise" counsel of someone who knows a lot about how to get away with murder! (The fact that he knew how to all of this on his own was freaking me out a little -- no one is that level-headed in those kinds of circumstances unless a defence attorney who knows how murder trials work is giving you instructions!) If all of this had been for Rebecca rather than self-preservation, I don't think I could have gotten past his lack of brains. Now at least he seems a little less dumb than I previously thought. Plus, I think Annalise is more convincing as a Svengali who can convince you to do things you wouldn't normally do (i.e not going to the police to argue self-defence) than Rebecca!

Edited November 21, 2014 by bantering

[kikaha]

After what Sam said to Annalise, I can't say that she's evil.  What Sam said to her was ugly, especially considering the stereotype of white men just using black women for sex and black women stereotyped as hypersexual.  It was so ugly that it made me ill.  If someone said that to me, he'd be gone seven ways past Sunday.

It's not evil to plant evidence?  On an innocent person?

 

It's not evil to co-opt your students -- who idolize you -- into committing crimes for you? 

 

Annalise's morality seems to me elastic, always warping in favor of herself.  She will do most anything to get her way.  Lie, cheat, commit crime after crime -- and draw anyone else she wishes into the elaborate webs she weaves.   

 

All this has nothing to do with the insults Sam and she hurled at each other. 

[helenamonster]

I still think a prosecutor could definitely argue, and prove beyond a reasonable doubt, that the Scooby Gang and Rebecca were inherently responsible for Sam's death, based mostly on the fact that they were in his house.

 

I mean, let's start with Michaela. She lets herself in...or did Sam let her in? Either way, she was asked to leave. Yes, the house doubles as an office that she works at. But her employer, Annalise, the other person who owns the house, was not there. Neither were Bonnie or Frank, who I suppose could also be considered her superiors. It was after business hours, and even though she's pulled all-nighters there before, it has been with the permission and/or under the supervision of her employer/the homeowner. With just Sam there, she should have left when asked.

 

Then there's Rebecca. Entering the house with the intention of stealing.

 

And finally, Wes, Laurel, and Connor. Their intention was to stop Rebecca, but they still aided and abetted a thief.

 

Also, like I said before, while we'll never know for certain now, it is very possible that Sam's death was a result of getting his head hit twice. I know the trophy's heavy and that Wes is a fit young man who was standing over Sam, but I'm still not convinced that it'd be lights out after a single whack.

 

Basically, Sam would not be dead if these people hadn't been trespassing, stealing, and aiding and abetting, respectively. He was in his home, minding his business, and while he was a shitty person (and possibly a murderer himself) and I'm not shedding any tears over his detached remains rotting away in some landfill, he was not in the wrong in this particular situation. Was choking Rebecca overkill? Yes, but none of them should have been there in the first place. They knew they done fucked up, and that's why they covered it up.

 

As for what Sam said to Annalise, I didn't think he actually meant it. I thought he was trying to say things that he knew would hurt her, as one sometimes does in an argument. That doesn't make him any less disgusting, though.

 

Was I hallucinating, or did I see the scales of justice on the coin when it was tossed into the air? And if I wasn't hallucinating, has that happened at all in the million other times we've seen the coin toss?

 

Anytime they showed Rebecca, all I could think was, "Is she on drugs?" Then I had to remind myself that, yes, she's on lots of drugs. I always forget she's a junkie, though, she's quite high-functioning.

[teezy]

That was major yuck for me.  Didn't he say his wife was in the hospital "again".  Yeah, they're both dogs.  I was worried that her wig would be yanked off.

 

I thought how everything happened was incredibly stupid.  Why did everyone come running when Rebecca called?  Why did everyone take Rebecca's side when she was breaking into Sam's house and hacking into his computer?  Why did Laurel run when the thumb drive was tossed to her?  I don't buy princess Michaela protecting Laurel. I thought it was stupid the way they managed to implicate almost everyone.   Even poor dumb Frank ends up with his finger prints on the murder weapon.  And wasn't Frank supposed to sneak the trophy back into Asher's room?  How does claiming the trophy was out on the porch equal "hiding in plain sight"?  Unless the trophy grew legs, someone placed it at the scene of the crime.

 

I thought Connor came off like a total psychopath.  Hacking Sam's limbs up and cackling.  He's insane.  And then his ridiculous sobbing to the ex - poorly acted, and not consistent with his earlier glee.

 

How pathetic of Bonnie to go running back after the way Annalise treated her.  I still like Bonnie, and I've added Asher.

lol girl you in here preaching to the choir

 

you just pointed out everything wrong with this episode

 

since when is connor self righteous ass or princess michela  going to take the fall for Rebecca's druggie ass last i checked they both don't really care for her nor do they care for Wes.

 

It was weird seeing the whole cast willing to risk their future for a dumbass and his junkie girlfirend

 

I pray rebecca trips and breaks her neck like they thought sam did lol  the only time ih ave hated a female character this much was Lori on the walking dead but Rebecca is ten times more annoying than Lori ever was lol

Edited November 21, 2014 by teezy

[Chicago Redshirt]

That would be their defense, it doesn't make it legal self -defense in a lot of states, especially in someone's home. There is evidence that this wasn't just a client visit....dead body, broken doors, cell phone records.  I'm guessing blood on all of them, skin under fingers, broken bannister.  Five on one....really?  Flashdrive from the owner's computer in "defender's" hand? They had to kill someone when all of them were there against him?  They bash in his head?  He had no weapon.  Is that reasonable?  He was strong enough to take all five on?  Or is something else going on?  This was his home, different rules can apply (although neat balancing act making downstairs the office...if that was the office, why were they up in the residence?

 

I'm just saying this is very arguably not self-defense or reasonable defense of others.  Maybe they could have gotten away with it, but it doesn't change that it wasn't really self-defense...they couldn't have pulled him off before he choked her rather than Wes bashing the head? 

 

It is not a clear cut case, but it tips towards murder...hence the rest of the season, and the title of the show...can they get away with it? At what cost?

 

Again, it is a question of whether you have the two elements of murder -- mens rea (guilty mind) and actus reus (physical act). You have to have them for each of the individuals for them to be guilty of murder. 

 

The only one who has the actus reus is Wes. The only way any of the others could be guilty of murder or any other crime is either through felony-murder or some sort of conspiracy/accomplice liability. I don't think there can be any conspiracy liability because a conspiracy requires a "meeting of the minds" to accomplish something.

As to the mens rea, I don't think you can say that Wes had the classic "malice aforethought" guilty mindset. 

http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1198

 

That is, when he swung the statue, was he thinking "I'm going to kill/really hurt this sonuvagun!" That would be malice aforethought. More likely, Capt. Save-a-ho was thinking "I've gotta save a ho." 

It could be manslaughter because arguably this was a killing in the heat of the moment, or because there was what at worst could be called "imperfect self-defense/defense of others" -- basically Wes was under the belief that he had to act to save Rebecca, but he was incorrect in how he acted. 

 

So really the only way this might fit as "murder" is felony murder, which sidesteps all that and just says basically "if you were intending to commit a felony and someone dies in the midst of it, it doesn't matter that you didn't intend to kill him."

 

Anyway, as to hitting Sam in the head while he was choking Rebecca, 

 

There was no meeting of the minds to steal the computer info originally. One could say that there was once Sam went berserk. But it's still an open question as to why Wes wanted Laurel to take the flash drive, why Laurel took it, and why Michaela defended Laurel.  I don't think it can be truly said that they were all of one mind on any of this.

 

I agree. In most states, self-defense is only justifiable if the individual is in immediate danger. From the prosecutor's perspective, if they were such immediate danger, why didn't they call the police? Like you said, there were four of them so why didn't they just pull Sam off Rebecca? I think they would be hard pressed to meet the legal definitive of self-defense. Also, this would be a high profile case that could make a prosecutor's reputation and career. I can see them being charged with varying degrees of manslaughter.

 

 

Clearly if this wasn't an idiot plot, Michaela should have called Annalise and 911 at some point before the rest of the Scoobies got there. (And I wish there were a better term for them because they deserve to be comingled either with the cartoon Scoobies or the Buffy Scoobies. They just aren't cool or smart or funny enough.) 

 

But once it became a struggle with Sam, there wasn't a ton of time to call the cops. They were debating as to what to do when they thought he was dead, and then he immediately sprang up and started to choke Rebecca.

 

I also have a hard time with the argument that the Scooby gang is trespassing. Annalise's home also doubles as their workplace. The gang has pulled many an all-nighter there, working on cases. They could easily make the argument that they were there for any number of work or school-related reasons.

 

that's why I've always had a hard time with the idea that this thriving, successful attorney works from her home. She couldn't rent space near the university? But I guess it is necessary for the storyline.

 

If you take the facts as we saw them, Sam told them to get out. As the homeowner, he can rescind the invitation to these people for any reason or no reason. Staying after the homeowner has told them to leave is trespassing, even if they were like "We'll leave as soon as you calm down.".

 

Of course, since they could tell any story that they wanted, they could just say that they were welcomed in the home initially but then Sam went cray and started attacking them.

[lorikauai]

I think Asher is the only one I still like.

Didn't Annalise set everything in motion by telling Wes Lila was pregnant, knowing he would tell Rebecca and she would confront Sam? She seems like she's pulling all the strings. She has control over Nate, Bonnie, Wes. How did Wes end up in her class and living next door to Rebecca coincidentally right after Lila's murder?

Am I the only one wondering if Wes could be Annalise's son? It would be very soapy but I don't think it is too out there for this show.

[helenamonster]

Am I the only one wondering if Wes could be Annalise's son? It would be very soapy but I don't think it is too out there for this show.

 

I'd say it's on the less likely side, as it has been well established that Annalise has had fertility issues and multiple miscarriages (Sam was plenty fertile since he was able to get Lila pregnant after only six or seven times together). It's not impossible, I don't think. Annalise's exact issues with fertility haven't been explained. I just think they've gone through a lot of trouble to tell us that she can't have kids that making Wes hers would ring false, at least to me.

 

Also, Wes was born in Haiti. I mean, yeah, there's definitely something off about him and it's still impossible to tell at this point what he says is true and what isn't, but I'm taking everything at face value until proven otherwise.

[ShadowSixx]

I wouldn't be surprised if Nate and Wes are related and the reason he got off the wait list is because Anni and him were having an affair and did it as a favor to him. There's a reason why Anni was so fixated on Wes since the start, there's a reason why.

 

Anni might have killed Lila but I think that might be a little too obvious at this point now. Anni could have gotten someone else to take care of Lila like Frank or Bonnie. I say Frank more than Bonnie since Frank is so creepy and will come on to any pretty girl. He could have lured Lila away and did the deed.

 

When the show returns in January, they better do something with Laurel if she's going to stay on. Her non expression, monotone talking is not doing her any favors. Girl better spruce up in the personality department and show some range like most of the cast or just get the hell on somewhere.

[Queena]

This is my first Shondaland show. Can this show go on with everyone being either a murderer, or accessory to murder? Then the lying and the moral failings of the characters... Annilise and her jump off sleeping together while the wife is in the hospital. How can it go beyond 1 season?

[catrice2]

If it were just the client of the week I would like it, but this whole Sam, Annalise, interns drama is just too much.

[SimoneS]

As for what Sam said to Annalise, I didn't think he actually meant it. I thought he was trying to say things that he knew would hurt her, as one sometimes does in an argument. That doesn't make him any less disgusting, though.

 

I agree, but like most things said in anger, there was a kernel of truth. While I think Sam did love Annalise in his own fashion, his philandering and his attempt to manipulate Bonnie into keeping Lila's visit a secret suggests to me that he has a dismissive attitude about women as a whole. He does see women as "a piece of ass." Yet, marriage to Annalise would bring him status, especially in an academic world so he has that incentive to stay married.  

[Guest Accused Dingo]

Wes being the killer isn't exactly surprising. Annalise being aware of it kinda is.  

 

I am not really sure about this show.  By this point in Scandal I knew all the major players names, ranks, and serial numbers,  that is not true of this show.  Hell I can't even come up with Annalise's name without checking first and that is not a good thing.  I am not a fan of Grey's Anatomy so maybe I'm a one hit for Shonda RHimes because I love love love Scandal.  I think Scandal is work of art.  

 

I may keep this show on my DVR for the remainder of the season once the show comes back but it is not must watch tv like Scandal is.  Hell Scandal is live TV for me.  This just isn't.  

Edited November 22, 2014 by Accused Dingo

[possibilities]

For me, the most outrageous thing was the fire in the woods. That's the kind of thing that would lead to a wildfire ripping through the forest, and would be very hard to put out or contain. And certainly it would be noticed, and investigated. That sort of thing is very dangerous and depending on where they live it's probably illegal for that reason. We had a fire burn acres around here, threatening houses and generally becoming a huge mess.

 

I don't have nearly the same level of discomfort around the kids not calling the cops, for lots of reasons. Wes and Rebecca have been explicitly shown to have no faith int he system. And there will be no Vera Wang for Michaela, pre-nup or no pre-nup, if she is involved in any kind of scandal. And they all know the system is easily manipulated. Except for Wes, they have no reason to think Annalise will take their side in all of this, so they are surely all thinking they won't hang on to their status as her proteges and will probably be going up against her if it goes to trial. I can see the absolute panic setting in and them feeling sorry for themselves and not trusting there would be sanity in the system. They are already schooled in how it doesn't matter if you are innocent or not, it only matters if you have an attorney who knows how to manipulate the jury. And Annalise is the best and most shameless and determined attorney in the system, as far as that's concerned, according to what they know.

 

They also don't trust each other. Connor keeps saying his car is the one everyone, including Asher, sees parked out front. He's not going to believe that just because he's "the least involved" that he can trust the others not to try to incriminate him. And because of the car, he's the one most likely to have some witness testify that he was there. I think they realize that if no body appears, it's much less likely anyone will wind up suspecting them, whereas if they are forced to testify, none of them can trust the others to tell the truth or an agreed on alternative story. So they in their panic conclude that the best option is to dispose of evidence and avoid the issue arising at all.

 

One of the things I actually genuinely like and respect about the show is that it's very cynical about the legal system. most law shows are about truth, justice and the American way, and this show is basically saying: it's filthy, rigged, unfair, and a disaster. I basically agree with that idea, and I think it's refreshing to have it admitted upfront.

 

As to why Annalise might protect Wes or the others, maybe she is also trying to avoid the embarrassment of having her interns commit murder. I mean, it's bad enough her husband got the dead girl pregnant and she's defending the girl accused of murdering that very same dead girl. To then have her protegees murder her husband? It's a little much for a reputation to weather, even for a superstar like herself. I think she may feel that Sam making a quiet disappearance would be more easily accepted. This way he's avoiding the law, but at least there's no additional blood on her hands. She might even be able to get some sympathy because she "bravely soldiered on, and defended Rebecca even when it caused her so much personal pain." If Sam was killed in her home/office, she won't even be able to sell the house and move on, she'll be worse than the woman with a terrible marriage, she'll be the woman with a terrible marriage and a sordid business, living in the bloodstained scene of the crime. No one will ever even want to go to her office for a consultation anymore, with that kind of haunted memory around.

[shapeshifter]

I have never been so excited while hate watching an episode. Heh. All season long I've been wondering about the rug, but I never guessed the obvious (that Annalise already knew about it).

Best line for me: Bonnie: "You idiot. Come over here and take your pants off."

But she insisted it "never happened." Does that mean Asher gets framed for murder when they find the body parts because they didn't put them in the incinerator, which was clearly part of Annalise's directive based on the last few lines of the episode? Of course, there's the engagement ring too, so that may get Asher off and frame Mikaela--or she could claim Sam was having sex with her too.

Never mind for a moment the issue of Nate's dying wife because it's too complicated, but as for:

I have one word to say, with a lot of passion. Naaaaaaate. Naaaaate. Naaaaate. Naaaaaaate. Best TV boyfriend I have experienced in a long time.... OH mamaa... Have merrrcyy!!!

He may be hot and all that, but a man who goes back to the woman who ruined his career is no different than a woman who goes back to an abusive boyfriend.

...Oliver is a sweetheart. I hope that he and Connor get it together.

You mean like Oliver can write to him in prison? Heh.

[silverwings]

So I might have missed this if it hasn't been mentioned, but no on on the show has noticed the scales from the statue are still missing, right?

 

I feel like this is a big oversight on the scoobies part - it's probably in the house somewhere.

[CaughtOnTape]

This is my first Shondaland show. Can this show go on with everyone being either a murderer, or accessory to murder? Then the lying and the moral failings of the characters... Annilise and her jump off sleeping together while the wife is in the hospital. How can it go beyond 1 season?

 

I thought the same thing after Scandal started and they had the President get shot in the damn head in the first season.  But he's still going strong and with seemingly NO issues from a bullet being lodged in his skull.  Hell I don't even think they took a full season to have him relearn to walk or talk.....seems he bounced out of bed and went right back to making decisions for the country.  And seemingly no one in the press corp ever asked any questions or has asked any questions about this either.  George Bush choked on a pretzel and it got more press then Fitz getting shot in the head.

 

*shrugs*

 

I would think they'll find some way to get them all out of it or one of them who's no longer important will take the fall for all of them.  

[theatremouse]

clearly the boy is not so bright considering the best lie he could come up with to Oliver is that he's a drug addict.

I might be wrong but I didn't think he was lying. I thought it was just an alternate confession. Connor seemed to be on all sorts of drugs during the entire murder escapade, more so than just panic-shock-freak-out.

 

My main problem with the Annalise-killed-Lila theory is the premise for that is at least partially: she knew about the affair already. Had she known all along, and killed her, what would be the purpose of the "why is your penis on a dead girl's phone?" scene the show seemed so proud of itself for. They were alone. Confronting him about that in that moment, even if the actual photos were a surprise and annoyance to her, served no purpose. Everything else needed for the eventual set up as played out in this episode could happen without that exchange. So her character has no reason to have said that line other than to pick a fight with him (or be a misdirect for the home viewing audience). So, if I'm to have any faith in the writing (which, I actually don't really), Annalise shouldn't be Lila's killer, because her behaviour's too illogical.

Edited November 22, 2014 by theatremouse

[truthaboutluv]

Connor seemed to be on all sorts of drugs during the entire murder escapade, more so than just panic-shock-freak-out.

 

 

I think that was him just going into a manic state to get through what they were doing, like the fact that he was hacking up a person's body. Connor has never been shown to do any drugs on the show and it's never been hinted at or suggested that he's into drugs. And really, as we saw he was perfectly fine up until Sam got killed when they all started freaking out and didn't truly snap until they were disposing of the body. So when would he have had time to snort or ingest anything in between them disposing of the body and trying to cover their tracks.

 

He gave Oliver that story because Oliver jumped to drugs when he saw him acting so strangely. So he figured it would be a much easier lie for Oliver to believe. Like I said, I just didn't understand why he just didn't say he took something that night, because of stress of exams, working for Annalise, etc. and it messed with him, rather than saying he's a full on addict.

[helenamonster]

So I might have missed this if it hasn't been mentioned, but no on on the show has noticed the scales from the statue are still missing, right?

 

I feel like this is a big oversight on the scoobies part - it's probably in the house somewhere.

 

I actually keep forgetting about this and I'm surprised the show hasn't made it more blatantly obvious. Yep, the scales are somewhere. Probably right next to Michaela's ring.

 

Am I the only one looking forward to the fact that the second half of the season is basically gonna be the Scooby Gang, Rebecca, and Annalise, in a giant game of cat and mouse and secrets and backstabbing and betrayal and declaring loyalties/alliances and shit? Cuz it's gonna be exactly my kind of mess.

[Ravenya003]

I can bring myself to believe that three overachieving young twenty-somethings (some of whom are minorities) would find themselves in a situation that escalates into a murder that makes them completely loose their heads. People have done stranger things when they're panic-stricken.

 

That said, the whole situation could have been easier to swallow if only the preceding episodes had concentrated on:

 

1. Making Rebecca a genuinely sympathetic character that the Scoobies actually WANTED to protect; someone that they all looked upon (to one extent or another) as a little sister - or at least an innocent victim. After so many cases in which they were helping defend a bunch of creeps, Rebecca should have represented a genuinely honourable case that the Scoobies clung to as a sort of redemptive act. Their consciences have been sorely tried throughout this show, and it would have been easy enough to present Rebecca as someone that they needed to help in order to keep on believing themselves decent human beings.

 

As it is, she's been obnoxious and mostly ungrateful throughout this whole endeavour. I wouldn't stick my neck out for her, so I've no idea why the otherwise self-absorbed Scoobies would want to.

 

2. The power imbalances between the Scoobies. One of the things I liked about the lead-up to the murder was the fact that Michaela and Conner seemed the most amoral of the four, whereas the flash-forwards showed the more upstanding Wes and Laurel quite smoothly establishing their alibis and keeping the other two calm. There needed to be SOMETHING more in the dynamics up until that point that would have suggested Michaela and Conner being susceptible to the control of Laurel and Wes. Human psychology is a fascinating thing; you only need to watch a group of children playing to see which ones are in charge and which ones are followers.

 

They should have spent the episodes leading up to this night establishing Wes's almost super-human control/manipulation over the other three. At a stretch I can buy Michaela's hysteria rendering her incapable of coherent thought and allowing Wes to control her actions. But Conner and Laurel? Especially when their hands were pretty much clean? No way.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Ravenya003

[jhlipton]

Asher went up in my opinion -- he knows that sex with a drunk woman is rape.  He let her control the situation -- he never took advantage of her state.  Bravo.

 

If "Rebecca can't be here", why not send her out post-haste while the other idiots come up with a decent plan.  The only one who knows they were trespassing was Sam and he's not telling anyone.  "Annalise had us over for a study session but had too leave for [reasons].  We heard a commotion upstairs and when we got up there, we saw Sam whacking on the doors, then he came rushing at us.  He went over the railing, and we came down to check on him.  Before we could see the extent of his injuries, he started to strangle Laurel (at which point Wes strangles Laurel to death and no one notices the difference) so Wes whacked him with the statue."

 

No crime, no scandal, no big photos in the papers -- the kids didn't do anything wrong.  Dumb-asses, and for [ugh] Rebecca.

[shapeshifter]

....The only one who knows they were trespassing was Sam and he's not telling anyone.  "Annalise had us over for a study session but had too leave for [reasons].  We heard a commotion upstairs and when we got up there, we saw Sam whacking on the doors, then he came rushing at us.  He went over the railing, and we came down to check on him.  Before we could see the extent of his injuries, he started to strangle Laurel (at which point Wes strangles Laurel to death and no one notices the difference) so Wes whacked him with the statue."

 

No crime, no scandal, no big photos in the papers -- the kids didn't do anything wrong.  Dumb-asses, and for [ugh] Rebecca.

That would've worked if they had known Annalise would vouch for them before Wes had cleaned up Rebecca and otherwise tampered with the crime scene. But even if Annalise had, for instance, walked in moments after Wes brained Sam with the frickin' statue/trophy, I doubt she'd want to have to explain a body in her house.

[pennben]

 

Making Rebecca a genuinely sympathetic character that the Scoobies actually WANTED to protect

 

As several have noted, other than Wes, they weren't trying to protect Rebecca, each of them were trying to protect themselves from the mess they were in.  Whether right or wrong in the moves they made to protect themselves, protecting Rebbeca was not their motivation.

[renatae]

I can buy the panic and felony murder discussion, from my time in law school where we would be total nerds and over-analyze every situation.

 

I can relate, LOL. In my specialty, after a few months of school, we knew just enough to be dangerous, but not enough to make smart decisions. The things we conjured up in one situation, due to lack of full knowledge and panic, were just completely ridiculous, though we didn't know it at the time. Looking back, I can't do anything but laugh at how naive and dumb we were.

 

They are basically just kids with what, two months of law school? I think the premise of the show, that they are so bright and are ready to "assist" Annalise in any way except just being gophers, adds to the impression that they should have expertise, knowledge, and wisdom that in reality, they are really in no position to have yet. After all, this is Shondaland, the world of the alternate reality.

Edited November 22, 2014 by renatae

[jhlipton]

That would've worked if they had known Annalise would vouch for them before Wes had cleaned up Rebecca and otherwise tampered with the crime scene. But even if Annalise had, for instance, walked in moments after Wes brained Sam with the frickin' statue/trophy, I doubt she'd want to have to explain a body in her house.

 

If Annalise had walked in after Wes brained Sam with the frickin' statue/trophy, they would have been boned anyway (and not in the fun way).  But if she did walk in, she becomes the alibi that no shenanigans were pulled.  They tell her the story above: Sam went nuts and attacked Laurel and Wes whacked him in her defense.  Annalise can say they were trespassing, but having a murder in her house is worse than having a self-defense in her house, no?

[PrincessTT]

I guess for Michaela as well is the added consideration that any involvement in this for her, even if they had called the police and it was found to be self-defence, would have been the end for her and Aiden. I would imagine that Aiden, and his family, wouldn't want this controversy to affect his political career so the marriage wouldn't happen.

[kikaha]

No one other than Wes is protecting Rebecca.  They are protecting themselves.  If they call the police, their bright, shining futures almost surely go up in smoke.  Law school could easily throw them out... they could carry a red mark on them the rest of their professional lives... they could even end up in prison. 

 

Whether or not all that is true, they know the risk.  Much easier to try and cover up the whole affair.  At least that is their mindset. 

 

I suspect this is true of Annalise as well. There's a whole lot of dirt (or worse) she wants to bury.  Coming clean about any of these events may spell her doom along with that of her team. 

 

 

[ToukieSmith]

 

Am I the only one wondering if Wes could be Annalise's son? It would be very soapy but I don't think it is too out there for this show.

No.  I am wondering if he is Sam's son.  Remember Wes going on and on about his mother?  Well, I think there is a reason that we know that Wes's mother committed suicide...maybe because her first husband left her for another woman around the time Wes was born?

 

Its a reach, but I am going back to why were told that nugget of information.

 

I have vacillated between thinking he is Annalise's son versus Sam's son.

Edited November 22, 2014 by ToukieSmith

[Joimiaroxeu]

No.  I am wondering if he is Sam's son.

Yes, that's my theory too. I'm just not sure whether he knows it. He seemed to be particularly moved by Sam's death so now I'm leaning more toward his knowing.

 

Rebecca is going to be a bigger problem since she knows how Sam died. She's now in a position to blackmail all of them. Wonder who's gonna take her out?

[Omega Mu]

So, I was only kind of half watching, but did Bonnie bang the guy from the bar before booty-calling Asher?

[theatremouse]

Yep, looked like it.

[Mabinogia]

I think, for whatever reason, Bonnie turned down the guy from the bar then went and hooked up with Asher, which is what I don't get. When her and random guy were making out against the wall or whatever, she looked mildly disgusted by hooking up with him so I took that as she left. But then she calls Asher for a hookup? How is that different? Because she's known Asher a bit longer? Weird.

 

As for who killed Lila, I kind of don't care. If it's Annie, it doesn't make sense because she seemed quite surprised by the news about Lila and her husband. If it was Sam it doesn't matter because he's dead, if it was Rebecca...why? Same for any of the rest of them. Maybe Frank? It could have been a conquest gone wrong. Hey, maybe Frank will turn out to be the baby daddy. That would be a twist this show loves to do. Have Annie test the DNA expecting to see her hubbies but NOPE it's her lacky Frank.

[helenamonster]

They are basically just kids with what, two months of law school? I think the premise of the show, that they are so bright and are ready to "assist" Annalise in any way except just being gophers, adds to the impression that they should have expertise, knowledge, and wisdom that in reality, they are really in no position to have yet. After all, this is Shondaland, the world of the alternate reality.

 

Not to mention that as 1Ls, they're all, what, 22 or 23? If I'm remembering my high school psychology correctly, the frontal lobe (which controls decision-making and the ability to recognize future consequences) isn't fully developed until age 25. If they were ten or even five years older, it would be a bigger stretch that they thought covering the whole thing up was the better course of action.

 

I don't think we're supposed to assume that anyone besides Sam could be the father of Lila's baby. Based on the flashbacks we've seen of her and Rebecca, he's the only man she's ever slept with. They could throw the twist in of it being someone else's, but right now I'm 99% sure it was Sam's.

[theatremouse]

Maybe Frank? It could have been a conquest gone wrong. Hey, maybe Frank will turn out to be the baby daddy. That would be a twist this show loves to do. Have Annie test the DNA expecting to see her hubbies but NOPE it's her lacky Frank.

But Frank wasn't "in Lila's life", so he's a really bad candidate because it's never been established he ever interacted with her at all. So there'd be no reason to test him. It's not like the DA is going to try to DNA test every male at Middleton. It has to be someone who was known to have some sort of relationship with Lila, ie actual friends, acquaintances, the boyfriend obviously, and teachers.

[truthaboutluv]

if it was Rebecca...why?

 

 

I actually think they could easily create a reason for this that would be believable. The early episodes, in my opinion, clearly showed that there was a closer connection between Griffin and Rebecca that seemed to go away as the season went on. I still think there was more to the Rebecca and Griffin, as in they were likely hooking up and I think the flashbacks make it clear that Lila was unaware of this if it really was happening. As I said before, I still don't remember Rebecca ever being asked about Griffin's version of events that night, that she deliberately set it up so Lila would catch her and Griffin together. If she and Lila were supposedly so close, why would she have done that to her?

 

And I still say it's odd that Lila's body was found the same place that seemed to be their secret hanging out spot. In my opinion, outside of Annalise and Sam, and even more so than Annalise, Rebecca is the most believable murderer. And putting my natural hatred and wanting her gone aside, it would be the ultimate soapy goodness twist in my opinion. That basically all this started because that fool Wes got so blinded by this girl and turns out she was guilty the whole time.

Edited November 22, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[Dean Learner]

 

I think, for whatever reason, Bonnie turned down the guy from the bar then went and hooked up with Asher, which is what I don't get. When her and random guy were making out against the wall or whatever, she looked mildly disgusted by hooking up with him so I took that as she left. But then she calls Asher for a hookup? How is that different? Because she's known Asher a bit longer? Weird.

 

My theory is that Annalise called Bonnie sometime during her make out with the hotel bar guy and told her she needed to secure Asher, the wild card of the evening who could possibly disrupt the Wes/Annalise conspiracy. Like Frank, Bonnie is more aware of what was going on that evening than has yet been shown.

 

 

And I still say it's odd that Lila's body was found the same place that seemed to be their secret hanging out spot. In my opinion, outside of Annalise and Sam, and even more so than Annalise, Rebecca is the most believable murderer. And putting my natural hatred and wanting her gone aside, it would be the ultimate soapy goodness twist in my opinion. That basically all this started because that fool Wes got so blinded by this girl and turns out she was guilty the whole time.

 

I agree with this and think it's going to be the end game. TPTB have gone to great lengths to show Annalise and Wes as two sides of the same coin (so much so they literally put in a coin toss at the moment Wes goes with Annalise's plan.) Wouldn't the ultimate irony be that, like Annalise, Wes was duped by the person he loved? A person guilty of the crime he was working so hard to defend them against?

 

I can't see the Rebecca character continuing on after this arc is completed. There is nowhere for her to go, storywise, and it makes sense for her to be "the lesson" Wes learned in his development as the new Annalise.

[jhlipton]

After the previous episode, I guessed that Sam committed suicide, and in a way, he did.  Attacking Rebecca while her boyfriend is right next to him?  Not the key to a prolonged life-span.