S07.E11: Suits Of Woe

[WatchrTina]

More random thoughts:

 

When Rat asked "What happens if they put it to a mayhem vote?" and Chibbs stormed off -- that was great.  What DOES happen?  The club is more important than any one member, right?  If the other chapters vote that Jax needs to meet Mr. Mayhem, what will Chibbs do? Is it his responsibility as second-in-command to carry out the killing?  Or is that the job of the sergeant-at-arms (is that Happy?)  Or does Jury's chapter provide the executioner.  I need to see the Roberts Rules of Order for an MC. 

 

Is Gemma a preacher's kid?  She said something about the church near her birthplace being her father's church.  I thought she was Catholic.  Then again, I'm fairly certain that hymn she was listening to at the end (Blessed Assurance -- how ironic) is a Protestant hymn.

 

I found Jax's look during the one-on-one with Juice, downright distracting.  It was like someone fucked with the color levels -- his face looked too tan, the whites of his eyes too white.  I wonder if someone tried to add some just-this-side-of-tears glassiness to his eyes in post-production and didn't get it quite right.

 

I was about to say that we got through a whole episode without anyone dying but then I remembered Lin.  And possibly the cop in the flipped car.  Oh well.

 

Jax is beyond saving at this point.  If the club doesn't vote to have him meet Mr. Mayhem then he's going to spend a very long time in jail for car-jacking, and everything else that followed.  The cops know it was him.  There was a witness to the car-jacking. A cop was injured in the chase. I can't see this ending with Jax going to jail so it's pretty clear to me that Charlie has a death scene in his future.  I just hope Gemma's comes first.

 

I have that within which passeth show,
These but the trappings and the suits of woe. -- From "Hamlet"

Edited November 19, 2014 by WatchrTina

[ByTor]

Of course the rat is Barosky, it is the only logical conclusion that could be drawn.  Many people, including myself, though it was him all along.  We haven't seen any signs of anyone else in the club acting hinky in terms of being the mole.  And frankly, I don't think anyone in the club is smart enough to pull it off.

I thought it was obvious last season that he was a rat...so obvious that I thought there was no way he would ever be one!  Too bad it's not Jax, that would have been a real twist.

Edited November 19, 2014 by ByTor

[TaraS1]

So many episodes these last few seasons have completely sucked, so I have to give Sutter & Co kudos for this one - it was awesome.  Not one single scene felt wasted (like practically 75% of the scenes this season have) and I was glued to every second of it.  Just a damn fine episode.

 

I have wanted Juice dead for ages.  Dead in the most horrific SOA way possible.  And I cheered last week when we saw he was Manson's girlfriend. But man, Theo Rossi was SO good in that confession scene with Charlie.  So fucking good.  I had tears in my eyes.  In spite of everything he's done, I felt so much sadness for him, knowing he has to die.  And then this weird sense of relief when Jax told him he would make it quick.  That whole scene was beautifully written and acted.  Ditto for the final scene with Charlie and Jimmy Smits. Gorgeous work.

 

But Unser?  Unser can STFU.  He got this whole thing started!  He was the one who (although unwittingly) made Gemma think Tara was going to bring the club down.  He was the one who was so stupid and blind and in love with Gemma that it only took her two seconds to dupe him, take his truck and go stab Tara in the head.  So, STFU about what you will no longer do for Jax's family, you old bastard.

[larapu2000]

I assumed that's what Jax was telling Juice when he prefaced it with "Thank you for telling me the truth:" Juice cover-up of Gemma's involvement led to a whole lot of deaths, including possibly Jax's own (if the other chapters vote Mayhem for killing Jury). No way Jax lets Juice live at this point, but at least he won't order him tortured; of course, the guards may have other ideas.

Marilyn might want to keep him around as a pet.  He's very fond of him.

[ApocalypseThen]

I agree with what many posters have said regarding the performances, certainly top notch. But despite the performances and some powerful scenes throughout the episode, too many things bothered me with the writing to be able to call it a great episode.

 

-First, Sutter's lazy writing yet again when it comes to moving the plot forward. We see Jax going to great lengths to tell Wendy not to tell anyone he knows about Juice. Yet after he talks to cancer man, he doesn't do the same despite the fact that Unser gossips more than a Puerto Rican woman at a nail salon. Unser has even more sensitive information - he knows Jax will visit Juice in prison. Of course he was gonna run into Gemma at some point and start yapping.

 

-Marilyn Manson's control over that prison is just too unrealistic. He can do pretty much whatever he wants - go hump prisoners who are in solitary confinement, have guards turn off all recording devices in interrogation rooms whenever he wants, have guards give a knife to a prisoner while he keeps it for days even after he's moved from one cell to another. And of course, have guards get a gang leader that cops know is a target for murder and handcuff him in some room while allowing another prisoner to walk in and slice him up. Oh and not just that, but clean up the entire murder scene after that and move the body somewhere else!!! Yeah that's believable.

 

-Ditto on that awful car chase. Not only was the music horrible, but I'm pretty sure that fast motion was used in that scene. That's why it also looked so strange. I expected Benny Hill music to start playing in the background at some point. Thankfully Jax didn't go "Yee-ha!"

with a toothpick in his mouth after the police car went flying in the air.

 

-I'm not sure if it's just me, but I felt that Juice's scene with Unser and sheriff psycho was unintentionally hilarious due to all the jokes about Juice's anus. I was laughing out loud with lines such as "Here I'm everybody's asshole" and "If you want things to stop going inside your asshole you might wanna start talking to us". But who knows, maybe it was meant to be that funny. Yet somehow it felt like it should have been a more serious scene with a darker tone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WatchrTina]

I have to say I didn't think the jokes about Juice's jailhouse rape were funny and I thought Jax's glee at the prospect a couple episodes back was a really ugly moment for the character.

[ChicksDigScars]

Correction on the write up. There was a sex worker under 40 in the show. Lyla was doing the paperwork for Nero's sale of Diosa. Her classic line about staying in the porn biz, rather than being a "companionator" at Diosa: "I'd rather shoot pussy, than have my pussy shot at."

Nero: "Ouch, I'm trying to make a sale here!"

 

 

 

I started watching the AfterShow but turned it off after TR. Was there anything worth seeing, or just another Schmoopie session?

 

I liked the Wendy montage, where they started with the scenes where Gemma told Wendy, "He will NEVER call you Mommy," and finished it with last night's scenes where Gemma claimed to be glad that Jax told Abel that Wendy was his mother.  Full circle. And it was also a chance to see such a humble reaction from Smits. I've loved him back to his LA Law days.

 

However, as usual, Sutter monopolized the conversation and Jimmy, Drea and Theo just sat there most of the time.

 

Sutter can try and make Gemma as much of a victim as he wants.  It just isn't working for me.  I have no sympathy for her.  I wish he would ditch the Abel betraying Gemma crap, but that nonesense was brought up yet again in the after show. Gemma doesn't love her family.  She loves to control her family.  She doesn't remotely care about anyone else other than herself, and now she is playing the woe is me act.  Everything is about her, always has been.

 

THIS times infinity. 

Edited November 19, 2014 by ChicksDigScars

[Febgirl]

 

When Rat asked "What happens if they put it to a mayhem vote?" and Chibbs stormed off -- that was great.  What DOES happen?  The club is more important than any one member, right?  If the other chapters vote that Jax needs to meet Mr. Mayhem, what will Chibbs do? Is it his responsibility as second-in-command to carry out the killing?  Or is that the job of the sergeant-at-arms (is that Happy?)  Or does Jury's chapter provide the executioner.  I need to see the Roberts Rules of Order for an MC.

 Agreed. What are the rules for meteing out Mayhem?  Does it have to be unanimous among all charters?

 Another question-- Who here plays Chess?  I don't and was wondering about the placement of the pieces on the chess board when they were meeting in Alvarez's place.

Portent, Fortune, Eureka-- I like it.

  Now on to what else  I liked,

•       Music-less opening Montage- I loved it.
• Jimmy Damned Smits.  Wow. I loved how you didn't hear what Jax was saying on the other end of the phone, and all you saw were his reactions-- just brilliant
• I thought for more than a minute- that with the way she was acting, that Gemma is going to kill herself, but then, I thought- she's too proud for that.
• Lyla, porn director, brothel mgr, Notary-- I had to laugh
• I was never a fan of Theo Rossi's acting on this show, but both his jail scenes were fantastic.
• Sadly, Charlie Hunnam is no Steve Mc Queen-- I saw that they were trying to do an Homage to Bullitt, but it didn't quite work here.

 

[TigerLynx]

Chibs and Tig going through the books, and not having a clue was hilarious.  Tig, “We need to patch in another jew.”

 

I have no idea what Nero ever saw in Gemma, but he is so very pretty to look at, and Jimmy Smits nailed every scene.

 

I wonder if Happy will kill Gemma?  If the mayhem vote goes against Jax, I wonder if Happy will kill Jax?

 

Rat gave Jax an odd look at the table.

 

Could they not throw me a bone, and kill at least Juice or Unser this episode?  Especially since even if Gemma doesn’t weasel or cock roach her way out of this, she will probably be around until the very last episode.

Edited November 19, 2014 by TigerLynx

[Madding crowd]

Great episode but someone who never saw the show before would wonder why a British guy is an Mc prez. Unser put that APB on Jax to keep him away from Gemma. Everyone is in love with Gemma despite her having the warmth of a snake.

The music was crazy during the car scene and made me laugh. I still want Juice to somehow come out ahead even though it's not possible. I don't find prison rape funny and I wish Juice would find a way to kill Marilyn Manson.

The after show would be better if Sutter didn't dominate. On the other hand, I don't think the actors knew the answer to the questions and Smits ( who I love), was kind of rambling.

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

Marilyn Manson's control over that prison is just too unrealistic. He can do pretty much whatever he wants - go hump prisoners who are in solitary confinement, have guards turn off all recording devices in interrogation rooms whenever he wants, have guards give a knife to a prisoner while he keeps it for days even after he's moved from one cell to another. And of course, have guards get a gang leader that cops know is a target for murder and handcuff him in some room while allowing another prisoner to walk in and slice him up. Oh and not just that, but clean up the entire murder scene after that and move the body somewhere else!!! Yeah that's believable.

Is this the same prison that had Lee Toric's nightly Otto Rape-a-thon, and the Gemma/Clay "You're gonna have sex in front of us because we say so" scene? This show in its latter years has given up trying to portray prison life remotely realistically.

[PiggyRod]

Well, that was a good one.

 

A few things;

The Gemma farewell tour bugged. Everyone is looking for her and she chills with Nero and goes to Abel's school before leaving.  Which btw, where is she going? her dad's?

Unser, apparently one of the symptoms for stage 87 cancer is diarrhea of the mouth because Jesus!!! ... we came around to the previews and Unser is STILL talking too damn much.

Juice, poor, poor Juicy-Juice. My heart broke for him last night. But why oh why did you need to call Gemma? WHY?

Poor Chucky.

Alvarez as always a wonder to behold.

Nero is the real MVP of this episode. What a way to bring it.

Jax was pretty good too.

Althea is completely useless at this point.

That car chase was so ridic!

The club was giving Jax all types of weird looks, I am worried.

Edited November 19, 2014 by PiggyRod

[terrymct]

 

 Agreed. What are the rules for meteing out Mayhem?  Does it have to be unanimous among all charters?

 

That was my question, too.  Do the charters do a mayhem vote since this issue is between two charters?  The other option is an in-house mayhem vote within SAMCRO.  That wouldn't or shouldn't be acceptable to the other charters.   

[bluebonnet]

Great episode but someone who never saw the show before would wonder why a British guy is an Mc prez. 

Yeah, seems like Charlie just doesn't care to even try anymore.  Makes me wonder what everyone else things about it.  Does the cast resent working with a guy who refuses to maintain even a semblance of an accent?  Do the directors hate having to go through scene after scene in the hopes that Charlie will give them a tiny something to work with?  Does anyone on set even notice what a terrible job Charlie is doing wrt accent?  

 

It's not like Charlie Hunnam was ever truly good with the accent.  But at least I used to be able to ignore the one or two slips an episode.  Now it's more like one or two slips a sentence.  So distracting.  

[Fliz]

Give Jimmy the Emmy already. Wow.

I got the Bullitt homage, but I didn't enjoy it. I kept expecting a voiceover: "A Quinn Martin Production!" (Yes, I am that old.)

[Lila82]

If Gemma is the Gatekeeper, does that make Juice the Keymaster? If a giant Staypuff Marshmallow Man squashed all these people, it would be a fitting end to what they've become.

That little bit where Nero kind of jumped up and down during the confrontation with Gemma was a great bit of acting. He was such a little boy in that scene, desperately hoping it wasn't the truth. I will lose it if the show doesn't end with Nero and the boys riding horses with Lucius on the farm.

[monakane]

Yeah, seems like Charlie just doesn't care to even try anymore.  Makes me wonder what everyone else things about it.  Does the cast resent working with a guy who refuses to maintain even a semblance of an accent?  Do the directors hate having to go through scene after scene in the hopes that Charlie will give them a tiny something to work with?  Does anyone on set even notice what a terrible job Charlie is doing wrt accent?  

 

It's not like Charlie Hunnam was ever truly good with the accent.  But at least I used to be able to ignore the one or two slips an episode.  Now it's more like one or two slips a sentence.  So distracting.  

 

I think of it as Jax having a speech impediment rather than the actor struggling with an accent.

[larapu2000]

I can see where people consider Hunnam's accent to be slipping, but I've always found it to be a mix of a laid back California accent mixed with modern gang-speak, so it doesn't bother me.  However, every time he says "Tara" he reminds me he's English.

[Kris117]

Really liked the visual of the club meeting where Jax told them the truth about Tara.  Not the fancy carved club table but a couple of folding card tables and the chess board table shoved together.  A good metaphor of how the club might not be so solid and permanent any more.

 

Yes, that was a good visual. The fragmenting club sitting at a fragmenting table. 

 

Chucky: "You're my best friend."

Gemma: "I accept that"

Chucky: <puzzled expression -- trying to figure out if he just got dissed>  Yes Chucky, you did.

 

That was even a bigger dis than the classic brush-off response of "Thank you." 

 

That Gemma still thinks she's somehow not the worst person in the world is appropriate to who she is, and it was almost heartbreaking that she still thinks a future with the club is the best path for Abel's life.

 

Oh, yeah, that really got to me. She believes in the mythology and sanctity of the club more than anyone else on the show, even after the shambles it has made of her life. 

 

Smits hit it out of the park tonight. I particularly loved that weird leg bounce right after he found out what Gemma had done. It had the potential to look ridiculous, but it came off as a guy who literally didn't know what to do and wanted more than ANYTHING to wake up in that moment and have it not be true.

 

Yes, and I also saw it as an alternative to a more violent reaction. That choked off sob he did during the phone call also killed me. 

 

The biggest issue I had while watching was when Nero came to see Jax at the end.  I get that Nero was made a moron by his feelings for Gemma.  That ended on the curb.  His affinity for Jax was already tenuous, if not gone.  What was in it for him to attempt to counsel Jax to show mercy?   That club pulled almost every rug he had out from under him and he came back for more?  It would have been far more realistic if Nero came and tried to assassinate Jax.

 

I found that scene very realistic, given how many scenes there have been of Jax and Nero bonding. When he took up with Gemma, he took up with Jax, both on a business and an emotional level. They both love Gemma, and they've both been betrayed by her in a horrible way. They already had a bond, and now they're bonded by anger and sorrow. 

Edited November 19, 2014 by Kris117

[Artsda]

 

 

It's not like Charlie Hunnam was ever truly good with the accent.  But at least I used to be able to ignore the one or two slips an episode.  Now it's more like one or two slips a sentence.  So distracting. 

 

 

In the early seasons, he sounds like a different person all together. Now, it's his real voice coming through most of the time.

[monakane]

So many great performances.  Charlie,Theo and Jimmy were on fire.  

 

One of the things that bothered me this season was why no one thought Gemma could be the killer.  That was nicely explained by Jax saying that the murder was so brutal, he thought it had to be gang related.  Thanks KS for clarifying that.

[xls]

 

-Marilyn Manson's control over that prison is just too unrealistic. He can do pretty much whatever he wants - go hump prisoners who are in solitary confinement, have guards turn off all recording devices in interrogation rooms whenever he wants, have guards give a knife to a prisoner while he keeps it for days even after he's moved from one cell to another. And of course, have guards get a gang leader that cops know is a target for murder and handcuff him in some room while allowing another prisoner to walk in and slice him up. Oh and not just that, but clean up the entire murder scene after that and move the body somewhere else!!! Yeah that's believable.

 

-Ditto on that awful car chase. Not only was the music horrible, but I'm pretty sure that fast motion was used in that scene. That's why it also looked so strange. I expected Benny Hill music to start playing in the background at some point. Thankfully Jax didn't go "Yee-ha!"

with a toothpick in his mouth after the police car went flying in the air.

 

 

ITA on the prison control. If he has that much control, why doesn't he just leave?

LOL. The car chase was hilarious, alright, very 1970-ish.

[ChicksDigScars]

That little bit where Nero kind of jumped up and down during the confrontation with Gemma was a great bit of acting. He was such a little boy in that scene, desperately hoping it wasn't the truth. I will lose it if the show doesn't end with Nero and the boys riding horses with Lucius on the farm.

 

That was so vulnerable. Like a little boy with no patience, begging mom to let him go outside, or have some candy. Nero was silently BEGGING that heinous bitch for an explanation. Smits best acting last night was with his body language, his facial expression, and the catching of his breath during the phone conversation. 

 

Just hand him an Emmy. Don't even bother putting anyone else in the fucking category. Speaking of, how would that go? Will he submit as a guest actor? He's been on for three seasons now. I would think he was more Supporting Actor. Maybe with Breaking Bad finally done, they'll let some other show have some nominations.

 

If Sutter kills Nero off and lets his wifey's character off the hook, he's dead to me.  

[spaceytraci1208]

One of the things that bothered me this season was why no one thought Gemma could be the killer. That was nicely explained by Jax saying that the murder was so brutal, he thought it had to be gang related. Thanks KS for clarifying that.

See, when he spoke to the brutality of her murder I was certain he was going to say "How did I not realize that was personal?" I watch too much Forensic Files...

[monakane]

See, when he spoke to the brutality of her murder I was certain he was going to say "How did I not realize that was personal?" I watch too much Forensic Files...

 

I thought the same thing all season, but when you think about the world Jax lives in, it makes sense.  In real life, gangs murder people in especially brutal ways to send a message.

[minirth]

About the chase scene:  I'm glad to know the music choice/car chase was an homage, but that doesn't make it any better.  The twinkly wacky clown music was completely counter to the tone of the entire episode *and the scene*.  This was not a wacky, fun car chase with cheeky criminals who never really hurt anyone.  This was a man reduced to little more than a brutal thug committing an armed carjacking -- after a violent assault on an old, (admittedly fucking moronic) cancer-ridden former friend.  I was talking to a friend at work who said he stopped watching after Opie's death, and I found myself saying, "Good call, dude."  Because Jax is not rootable at all for me anymore -- he's done too much.

 

Where can I find myself a Nero?  I want one.  Jimmy Smits killed it last night.

 

Theo Rossi also killed it.  Poor Juice.  He's caused more death and mayhem than Tig, and that's saying something.  I miss the days when Juice was carefree and happy.

 

So glad to see Lyla alive and doing well -- she had better make it out of this show alive.  I always had a soft spot for her.  She was always sweet, despite the harsh life.  And I can't remember if I commented last week -- I really loved the scenes of Rat and his girlfriend last week.  It was a nice character moment for him, and it turned his girlfriend into a real, relatable person. 

 

I still miss Filthy Phil.

 

I smile every week when I see Happy in the credits.  He deserves it!!!

[Ottis]

Jax's spoken realization of what Gemma had done sucked. He mentioned the deaths of Bobby and West and someone else, but not a word about "all those girls." I'm not usually one to post things along gender lines, but I kept waiting for someone, anyone, to mention them, because that was a lot of deaths all laid at Gema (and Jax's) feet. I assume Nero was thinkng it, but he never said it. It would have been good to hear it voiced. In fact, everyone involved moved on pretty quickly from the thought of all those who died starting when Gemma ID'd the Chinese for Tara's murder. I would have kept saying to Jax, "Wait - your MOM killed Tera! Gemma?!" for a good, long while.

 

When Jax said to Juice, "I'll make sure it's quick," did anyone think Jax may have been referring to Juice's death instead of Gemma's?

 

 

That's exactly what he was referring to. We don't know his plans for Gemma, yet. I was surprised Juice told the whole truth. Kept expecting one last cover up for Gemma.

 

I FF'd through the chase scene, as I do all car/bike chase scenes. They add little and all that matters is the end.Never heard the music.

 

Was the lingering shot of the road sign going north a call back to Tera at one point wanting to move her and the kids north away from the club, and the irony of Gemma escaping in that same direction?

Edited November 19, 2014 by Ottis

[TaraS1]

Despite her status as #1 heinous demonbitch from the pits of hell, I still loved the little "I accept that" exchange between Gemma and Chucky. I didn't read it as a slam or a brush-off, I thought it was sweet.  As sweet as a viper like Gemma can be towards someone she has consistently used and abused, but still...sweet.  It reminded me of the moment a couple of episodes ago when Chucky said everyone thinks of him as a joke and Gemma said he wasn't.  I guess I've just always had a soft spot for Chucky.

[Puddy]

Something that is still "bugging" me?  Juice playing with that cockroach.  Cockroaches can live through anything. 

 

I am seeing Jax getting his final reward and Gemma killing herself.  Juice lives and Nero and Wendy become farmers.  Hell, they could even hire Juice.

 

 

The road sign ~~

 

Portento = prodigy, wonder-kid

 

Fortuna = wealth, luck

 

Eureka = Famous exclamation by Archimedes or the Eureka effect which is a sudden solution to a problem.

 

Connect the dots as you see fit.

 

 

 

And I agree about the super dark tan.  What the hell happened there?  It was distracting.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Puddy

[NotChu]

And Abel.  Jax explaining what Abel was going through and his concerns for Abel's treatment.  

 

I didn't like Juice's scene with Althea and Unser.  He was the frigging Oracle at Delphi.  Why not tell them and go into protection?  Maybe he's tired and ready to die.

 

 

 

Protection??  What protection?  Juice killed a cop!  No matter what he says, he is doomed.  Might as well go down feeling somewhat like a martyr then to go down as a cop killer already in jail.

Edited November 19, 2014 by NotChu

[yourmomiseasy]

I realize Juice is lame, but I've always had a soft spot for him.  He's so broken and I've felt so bad for him for so long, but him being kind of resigned to being raped and also eventually murdered just broke my heart.  I think Theo did a great job this episode.

 

I actually think Juice was going to take the bullet for Gemma when he met with Jax, and then Jax told him about what happened to Bobby, and Juice was all, "Deuces, bitch!  SAMCRO for life!"

The info about Bobby was the last part of their conversation right before Jax thanked Juice for telling him the truth and said he'd make sure it was quick.  

Edited November 19, 2014 by yourmomiseasy

[Artsda]

Juice wouldn't want protection, just like he could never leave town and run. SAMCRO and the club is his life, it's them or death.

[Puddy]

I thought the morning after with Chibs deciding to not kiss Jarry was sad.  I just knew she was awake.

[Mrs peel]

I swear to God, nobody on this show can keep a damn secret EXCEPT for Gemma.

Jax: Wendy, don't tell anyone I know what you just told me.

Wendy: (immediately tells Gemma)

Jax: (immediately tells Unser)

Unser: (immediately tells Gemma)

I didn’t mind Wendy telling Gemma because she has no reason to think this is about anything major, and obviously Gemma already knew about Juice.  I don’t even mind Jax telling Unser, because he wanted information.  Unser though?  Idiot, especially considering he seems to have doubts about Tara’s death before anyone else.

Also why did every adult have an inability to call Wendy Abel's bio mom when recounting Jax' disclosure? It was all first mommy this. First mommy that

She’s not even technically “bio Mom” (as in references to moms who give up children for adoption).  She’s MOM.  She and Jax were married; she didn’t give the kid up to anyone, etc.  Tara was step-Mom.

 

I was distracted enough by the car chase to be pissed off Jax didn’t leave the car somewhere for it to be found.  Poor guy who lost his brand new car.

When Jax said to Juice, "I'll make sure it's quick," did anyone think Jax may have been referring to Juice's death instead of Gemma's?

I assumed he was talking about Juice.  Although based on the preview…  And what annoys me about this is that Juice was, I think, trying to protect Jax by helping Gemma.  They all know Jax adores his mother, and would be (is) devastated by learning anything bad about her.  Juice tried to fix a horrific situation; Jax should be angry first and foremost with the person who killed Tara - GEMMA.

In a perfect world, Jax would meet with whatever Chinese are left, and tell them that these are the two assholes that started all of this shit.  Jax at that point would handover Juice and Gemma, and then hand off Baroksy to Jury's gang.  Hopefully that would be enough to get Jax off the hook.  I know, wishful thinking.

That doesn’t work for me because it was still Jax’ decision to go after the Chinese without any further investigation.  It never made any sense that another gang would kill his wife, and only his wife.  If the Chinese were starting something, it wouldn’t have started or ended with only Tara’s death.   Jax should have realized that.  God, what am I saying?  I’ve forgotten everyone on this show is stupid!

 

I agree with everyone about the acting tonight, and the amazement that Sutter actually had the Gemma reveal before the last episode. 

[cgarcia]

Charlie's accent never bothered me either.  As a matter of fact, I never knew that was what it was until I read the forums.  I just assumed it was some kind of speech affectation. 

 

Loved, loved, loved the scene between Jax and Juice.  It takes a lot for a television show to move me to tears and that scene definitely did the trick.  Both actors were superb.  Especially Charlie, I felt every ounce of his pain.  He absolutely deserves an Emmy nomination as well as Jimmy.  

[Dirndl]

I haven't watched the show since Tara was murdered but tuned in after I heard Jax would finally find out the truth. I guess I didn't miss much. The show is still awful and I missed Tara terribly. After hearing Jax saying "I still love her", I'm convinced Gemma will keep living. Sutter won't let her die unless it's the last scene of the show.

 

I can't believe Jax and Wendy play house and that she totally took over Tara's role. Ugh. And the worst part? Jax really said "Take care of OUR boys". Unbelievable.

 

She’s not even technically “bio Mom” (as in references to moms who give up children for adoption).  She’s MOM.  She and Jax were married; she didn’t give the kid up to anyone, etc.  Tara was step-Mom.

For me it takes more to be a "mom" then giving birth and being married to the dad. She almost killed Abel and then left. Tara was the mom who took care of him and raised him. She is MOM.

[leisawoo]

Charlie's accent never bothered me either.  As a matter of fact, I never knew that was what it was until I read the forums.  I just assumed it was some kind of speech affectation. 

 

Loved, loved, loved the scene between Jax and Juice.  It takes a lot for a television show to move me to tears and that scene definitely did the trick.  Both actors were superb.  Especially Charlie, I felt every ounce of his pain.  He absolutely deserves an Emmy nomination as well as Jimmy.  

I agree. I always assumed during and after the looooooooooong season in Ireland (that I really didn't enjoy, lol) that it was an Irish accent. I thought it kinda came out of left field but I was binge watching on Netflix. So, glad they did not go back there, lol. That said, the Irish guy they shot, wow! Did not see that coming and I did enjoy his shenanigans.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

The feeling for me about this ep is similar to the 3rd to last ep of Breaking Bad, Ozymandias.  To me, that was when the final and crucial plot advancements happened.  The final two eps were pretty much just playing out the fates already revealed.  To me, that was the best ep in BB history.  Last night's ep was pretty good, but it wasn't as good as even last week's.  

 

One example of a major false note:  Jax showing such agony over Tara's death.  He did not trust her and was angry with her.  He pretty much wanted her dead if for no other reason than to control his children's lives.  Last night he acted like life was no longer worth living since she's been gone.  Baloney.

 

Anyway, the last remaining bit of anticipation I had is gone.  How and when was Jax gonna figure out his mother is a living, walking, demon?  Who was gonna finally feed him that clue pill?  What soliloquy would we get from Sagal?  

 

While I would be pleased if a Gemma sincerely sought redemption, I laughed watching it happen on this show.  This is probably the biggest Sutter overreach of them all.  He's gonna have Gemma scam God!  Of course, the true evil inside of Gemma is just that:  The hubris to think she can be a God.  

 

So, which is the worse fate:  A quick mortal death in a totally lost soul, like Juice, or an extended human life living with the individual hell created, e.g. Tig, Chibs, Nero?

Edited November 19, 2014 by Lonesome Rhodes

[daughtersofanarchy]

Totally agree about those great scenes and impressive acting by Jimmy, Charlie, and Theo.  I'm glad various cast members are getting these chances to show the great work they can do, before all this goes away.

 

I didn't think it was possible for me to despise Gemma more, and then she gave that ring and that speech to Abel.  With stacks of corpses trailing in her wake.

 

I loved the scene of her at home, sitting at the head of that long table all alone and chattering away to dead Tara.  It brought back scenes throughout the years of the club and family members at that table with huge serving platters of food, and everyone smiling and laughing.

 

Of all the people we've envisioned going to The Farm with Nero, I don't think we ever envisioned Jax going.  Now I'm wondering.

 

I'm done with Unser.  Who is he to lecture anybody?  Mr. Morality all of a sudden?  He and Chucky sitting there being two sad little men, pining over that worthless bitch who they're both so devoted to.  Let them sit there and see their reflections in one another.

 

I feel like John Teller, like I'm getting run over by a big truck.

[luvtheshoes]

Now that the shoe has dropped about Tara, is the other one regarding Gemma's involvement in John Teller's death going to drop, too?

[xls]

Why put out an APB on Jax when Althea is right there?

He just walked away a minute ago, can't be more than a few feet away, why doesn't she slap the cuffs on him? 

[jrlr]

What was anybody's take on Gemma's expression as she headed north?  I was puzzled by it because I thought she almost looked smug, pleased with herself - in stark contrast to the fear she had been feeling earlier.  

[xls]

When Jax said to Juice, "I'll make sure it's quick," did anyone think Jax may have been referring to Juice's death instead of Gemma's? I haven't been paying close attention to the show this season so I may be completely off or it may have been completely obvious (in which case I am dumb to have noted it), but I just wanted to see what others thought.

I thought it was!

[leisawoo]

 

One example of a major false note:  Jax showing such agony over Tara's death.  He did not trust her and was angry with her.  He pretty much wanted her dead if for no other reason than to control his children's lives.  Last night he acted like life was no longer worth living since she's been gone.  Baloney.

 

 I felt like it was authentic after the way he and Tara left things. After their meeting at park and motel rendezvous, he stuck the deal with CCH Pounders charcter. He did the "right thing". He was gonna turn himself in & Tara was getting off the charges in some fashion or other. Or did I get that wrong? I thought Tara was experiencing relief as she first returned home & SAMCRO was saying goodbye to Jax because of it.

Apparently, I erased the quote marks. Sorry :)

[Empress1]

For me it takes more to be a "mom" then giving birth and being married to the dad. She almost killed Abel and then left. Tara was the mom who took care of him and raised him. She is MOM.

I agree, I think bio mom is appropriate in this case. Wendy was in Abel's life for, like, days, if I recall correctly, and she and Jax were estranged. (I think they slept together once after Abel was born but never again.) Tara was his mother in every way that mattered, IMO.

One example of a major false note: Jax showing such agony over Tara's death. He did not trust her and was angry with her. He pretty much wanted her dead if for no other reason than to control his children's lives. Last night he acted like life was no longer worth living since she's been gone. Baloney.

I have said many times that Jax treated Tara like shit, but I do think he felt anguish over her death. He claimed to have loved her since they were kids, and I actually do believe that - though his version of love is one that an emotionally healthy woman would run screaming from. And he has always known that her death was his fault; I remember him telling her he was sorry being with him brought her so low, and then being with him got her brutally murdered. And with the knowledge that HIS MOTHER did it ... yeah, I buy his reaction.

I actually stayed up past my bedtime to watch, which I haven't done the whole season. I was riveted in the scene between Jax and Juice. And Jimmy Smits, who is IMO the best part if the show and has been since his arrival, fucking killed it. That flash where they cut to his face on the phone with Jax and he's trying to process everything was brilliant.

[Ohwell]

For a moment there, after Nero confronted Gemma and she confessed, I thought he was going to take her in his arms because he'd been such a fool for her up to that point.  I think she expected it, too, and I was so happy that he turned away from her like she was a maggot.  Which she is.

 

I have no sympathy at all for Juice and I don't care if he gets raped 24/7.

[Bandolero]

Did the club forget that Jax said that Jury confessed to him about being the rat? Now it turns out that it was actually somebody else. This shows that Jax is a liar and should meet Mr. Mayhem.

 

I actually liked Unser going off on Jax... somebody needed to say it. It is exactly what I think of him... a brutal homicidal thug. Granted coming from Unser it was a bit hypocritical seeing that he has been complicit in said "thug activities"  all along and is only mad now cause he got burned. 

 

Instead of kissing Jax's ass all the time I wish more people would tell him the truth about himself... wishful thinking I know.

 

Yeah... don't care much what happens to Juice... he should have left when he had the chance.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Bandolero

[leisawoo]

 

I have no sympathy at all for Juice and I don't care if he gets raped 24/7.

This made me giggle. Me, neither.

[DrSparkles]

Despite her status as #1 heinous demonbitch from the pits of hell, I still loved the little "I accept that" exchange between Gemma and Chucky. I didn't read it as a slam or a brush-off, I thought it was sweet.  As sweet as a viper like Gemma can be towards someone she has consistently used and abused, but still...sweet.  It reminded me of the moment a couple of episodes ago when Chucky said everyone thinks of him as a joke and Gemma said he wasn't.  I guess I've just always had a soft spot for Chucky.

Despite her status as #1 heinous demonbitch from the pits of hell, I still loved the little "I accept that" exchange between Gemma and Chucky. I didn't read it as a slam or a brush-off, I thought it was sweet.  As sweet as a viper like Gemma can be towards someone she has consistently used and abused, but still...sweet.  It reminded me of the moment a couple of episodes ago when Chucky said everyone thinks of him as a joke and Gemma said he wasn't.  I guess I've just always had a soft spot for Chucky.

I may be missing the boat, or misremembering, but wasn't Chucky's catch phrase 'I accept that'? So I thought Gemma's response was going back to that & showing how much he meant to her.

[Hava]

I agree, I think bio mom is appropriate in this case. Wendy was in Abel's life for, like, days, if I recall correctly, and she and Jax were estranged. (I think they slept together once after Abel was born but never again.) Tara was his mother in every way that mattered, IMO.

 

 

I don't think that "mom" is an appropriate title for Wendy just yet, but Abel is still young. If Wendy continues to be in his life and raise him then, yes, she become mom one day, just like Tara was mom. 

 

And I am a little confused about people saying that Wendy "left" Abel. From my recollection, Wendy left to go to rehab and only came back when her life was stable. Yes, her substance abuse almost killed Abel and is the reason she had to leave in the first place--and she should take responsibility for that. But I also think that she should be given credit for leaving to do something positive. It's not like she left because she wanted to get high.