S07.E10: Faith And Despondency

[terrymct]

Well, this is the first time I like Abel. How will she get out of this? Ironic if she's taken down by a lie.

 

 

Jax doesn't have to believe Abel.  Remember that Abel just lied about Grandma hurting him.   I suspect that Jax will try to brush this off as a lie, but then over the next couple of weeks things will finally start to click in Jax's lizard brain.

 

Tig and Venus are the great romance of this show, not Tara and Jax.  I never understood why Tara would screw up her life and dedicate herself to Jax.  Tig and Venus make sense and it would take someone smart, strong, and having been through a lot to move Tig to a more stable place.   Bravo.

 

I'm still 'shiping Althea and Chibs, although the show has made it more difficult recently.   

 

Jax's awesome master plan that destroyed Marks' Blackwater security guy wasn't believable for me.   Too many moving parts.

Oh little Psycho, how did you become my favorite character.

 

Throwing shade at Gemma about "accidents."

 

Using some self-inflicted injuries to get Gemma in trouble with the school and child services.

 

Getting himself moved out of Gemma's house with his lie about grandma.

 

Asking Daddy if Grandma killed Tara Mommy so that his first Mommy could come back. I think that is the one.

 

The problem is that Abel appears to be thinking as more of a grown up than a kid in pre-school.   Dropping shade about "accidents" is kind of advanced for him, or it should be.

[terrymct]

And the way the shot switched from Jax and his Tara replacement hooker to Gemma and Nero was creepy as fuck. 

 

OMG, does that girl look like Tara.  I didn't see it in the previous episode, but this week she looked like Tara's younger sister.

[StarBrand]

So Courtney Love is playing someone who calls child services on someone.

 

No irony here AT ALL.

[spaceytraci1208]

I want Abel's teacher to reveal her true self and go all Courtney Love on Gemma's ass.

Surprisingly, I don't mind how they've written Abel as this criminal mastermind. Someone has to be smarter than the rest of the morons on this (now) awful show...I'm all for it being the 5 year old. Makes things interesting

[TaraS1]

Highlight of this episode?  Alicia Coppola as the assistant principal.  Love her.

 

Everything else?  The usual Sutter tripe - asses, gore and women as slutty idiots.  Although I adore what happened to Juice.  The sniveling little bitchboy has had that coming to him for several seasons now.  But I don't want him taking drugs to numb himself, I want him fully alert for his daily lovetap from Marilyn Manson. 

 

And count me in as someone who refuses to believe that the kid playing Abel is the best blonde haired/blue eyed little actor they could find in all of acting-land.  He has the creepy factor down pat, that's for sure, but I'm taken out of the scene every time he attempts to recite his lines.  When he stabs Gemma in the head with a fork in the finale and gives a soliloquy, I want to be able to enjoy it.

[DrSpaceman]

Also do the writers really expect us to believe that Jax is still a "good person" just because other people in his inner circle /women he is having sex keep saying so, like the little soliloquy by the mistress of the week at the beginning?  No, he is not.  He has ordered and been directed involved in the killings of many, many people JUST THIS SEASON, probably far more than his father or father in law ever were responsible for in their decades of involvement with SAMCRO

[Maximona]

 

Ted Bundy was raised to believe that his real mother was his sister, and that his grandma was his mother.

 

Jack Nickolson, too.  So Abel DOES have other career options.

 

Marilyn Manson and Juice have waaaay more sexual chemistry than Chibbs and Althea.

 

This was the best show of the season, which means 15% of it was marginally watchable, and the last two scenes with Abel were really quite strong.  Problem with all the mass slaughter -- besides the fact that I have long ago forgotten why the Preacher's wife and the Preacher's son are important to the creaky plot machinery, and I have no interest in refreshing my memory -- is that when you contrast these cartoonish scenes of violence and mayhem -- like how many corpses have there been now?  And the BAU team from Criminal Minds still hasn't shown up to start profiling Jax? -- it seriously detracts from the stuff that is strong and compelling.

 

 

 

 

[molly]

Even English people think that the folks (They call them "Geordies") from where Charlie Hunnam comes from have really weird accents.

He tends to have his accent slip/become pronounced when he pronounces his "AH" sound, unlike the New Yawk accent which becomes pronounced with the "OH" sound.

I know Hunnam IS a Geordie, but when he speaks out of character, his accent no longer sounds Geordie. I think he's spent so long in the US and doing (trying to do...) a US accent, that his whole speaking situation has morphed into a freaky hybrid.

What a delectable creature he is, though.

[terrymct]

One of the best moments of the night was when Gemma was wondering why Nero stays with her.  Join the club, honey, I've been wondering that since his character was first introduced.

[Ottis]

So much evoking of base humanity.  Even lowlifes like Alexaaaaannnder and Chibs aspire to know ultimate love and beauty.  As Tig brilliantly expressed, he wants to know how, but he just doesn't.  Worse, he has no real hope he ever will.  So, wearing a kutte makes for one heck of a coping mechanism.  Chibs knows better than to hang with the certifiably insane Althea, but he also recognizes that beggars can't be choosers.  She'll do.

 

 

This show chooses to focus on the oddest things at the oddest times. After weeks and weeks of little humanity, we get clubbed on the head for most of this episode about how these guys are all humans who just want love. In a vacuum that was well done. Unfortunately, it comes within a context that makes it at best awkward,a nd at worst WTF?

 

A few eps back, did Abel overhear Gemma say she used a fork to kill Tera, or that she just killed Tera? That would make his choice of a fork interesting.

 

Were we supposed to believe that the ambush on Marks' guys was set in motion in advance, and that the pinching of TO and Rat was anticipated and planned? That ... defies belief.

[cam3150]

Firstly, the show is making a huge mistake with these "SOA Moments" they are airing during the commercial breaks because all it does is remind the audience of how good the show used to be.

Anyway...tonight's episode was, by far, the best of the season. I am glad Charlie turned down the cheese-tastic Christian Grey role but... if it meant a whole movie of looking at his backside then I would have gladly sat through the rest of it. Goodness.  Also, they way they always shoot his back and that tattoo is just....so pretty. 

 

Add me to the list of people who are totally distracted by the actor who plays Abel's acting abilities, or lack thereof. I read somewhere that it's twins that play the role so I guess they are both bad because I see no difference.  He does have the creepy thing down but I would imagine it's more accidental than anything else.  I do have a hard time believing that a 5 year old could even remotely deduce that lying about Grandma would produce the results it has.  It would have been more believable to leave the "trying to get Grandma in trouble" aspect out of it.  Just have Abel be so upset by Tara's death and everything else that he resorted to violence, since that's what he has been exposed to his whole life.  I had no idea where the bathroom stall scene was going. First he tied his shirt up on the railing, then when he opened the box, I figured there would be a gun in there. Then all I could focus on was how sad his lunch looked. A huge thermos and basically a smashed up sandwich.  What was the fork even for? 

 

I did like the ambush scene. I didn't see it coming to the level that it did and I loved the payback for Bobby's death. I had to look away during the eye dangling parts though. Just...NO.  I am totally freaked out with any kind of eye violence or eye anything really so that part was horrifying for me.

 

I also liked the Uncer / hospital scene. Go Uncer! Stage 87 cancer indeed.

 

I am now tuned totally off my Chibs and Jarry.  I liked them in the beginning but...my Chibs deserves better than that crazy. 

 

Well, the pieces are swiftly falling in to place, not in the way any of us expected at the beginning of this season. I did not watch the after show to know what was said but I imagine Jax will not believe Abel at first. What parent would really?  But, it will nag at him and he will start to look in to it and figure it out himself.  I hope the episode is as good as the previews made it look.

[gesundheit]

I didn't hate the episode. Best of the season! Which is a low bar and it was still overlong, but I found most of it fairly engaging. More actual human conflict and less confusing bad-ass posturing with lots of long scenes of motorcycles pulling up to places.

 

Tig and Venus are so charming. Venus's dialogue was fantastic (the whole bit about knowing Tig shows up for what is transgressive/outside the box but her feelings being very much inside the box/etc), I was surprised Sutter had it in him. And so I'd say maybe he should write more relationship drama, and then I remember Althea/Chibs. That was god awful.

 

Considering the willing suspension of disbelief required to watch this show in general, I'm not bothered by Abel's plan being too sophisticated for a 5-year-old. He got a wound, a responsible adult told him if someone else did that to him they'd be in trouble with the cops, ergo he gave himself a wound and blamed it on the person he'd most like to see in trouble. I liked how it all led to his final question, I much preferred that chain of causality to having Abel just come out and tell Jax what Grandma said. 

 

Why on earth did that Grim Bastards dude say, "Anything for you!" to Jax?! I know all the blind devotion is a standing joke but that took it too far even working within this show's internal logic.  

 

Poor Unser.

 

Marilyn Manson is so gross. That all really gave me the heebie jeebies.

[Madding crowd]

None of the sex scenes were about love (excluding Tig and Venus), and including Juice and Marilyn Manson in the montage was just gross. Rat has a girlfriend, Jax just lost his wife, Chibs and Althea are abusive to each other, and I didn't need to see Gemma transform into hooker of the week with Jax. Just Eww.

 

I was hoping for a minute that Juice would use his shiv to kill MM, but instead he is doing lines while Manson reads from Jane Austen. Ok, like I believe a white supremist like him can even read.  I do like Venus, but every time I see Tig I think about him bragging about screwing dead bodies and I want more that a psycho for Venus.

 

I'm usually the one complaining about Abel, but this is how I saw it. Abel heard his grandma say something about hurting his mommy. Abel is confused by his mommy's death, Bobby's death, leaving his home etc and hurts himself for attention. He mentions Grandma because he is somehow mad at her without knowing why.

 

I was pretty sure Abel would say something to someone about this, but I'm sure Jax won't believe it right away. I was relieved that Gemma didn't start beating the assistant principal and child protective worker, because that is her usual response to everything.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Madding crowd

[Febgirl]

I agree with what others have posted , that for me, this was the best episode of the season.

• I loved how the opening montage portrayed the sexual act as appropriate to what the characters were going through ( Gemma and Nero, Catatonic, Chibs and Jarry, Violent, Tig and Venus, entangled, Wendy, alone, etc.) great cover by Amos lee.
• So yeah, completely unrealistic ambush of Moses and co., but still so satisfying.
• Oh Abel, you've learned well, youngling.-- you're still a bad actor, though.
• Question.  How did the AB guy know that Tig and Venus were an item?
• Speaking of that, when Tig first left Venus in the morning, I was muttering under my breath, "Do not hurt her, don't leave her like this"(crazy, I know, but it was just so well done)  
• By the time we got to their scene at the end of the episode, I was in tears.  Walton Goggins and Kim Coates  didn't need to remind me how great they are, but that five plus minutes was just transcendent. Venus' sobbing at the end when she tries to "lilt" out "my precious Alexander, My salvation, my angel" drop mike. Wow.

[Maximona]

It would have been a great scene in a naturalistic series.

 

The problem was that it occurred on Sons of Anarchy, mere minutes after I saw some guy's hand chopped off and his fingers wriggling on the ground like little earthworms.  

 

So no, it wasn't a great scene.  Just more WTF?

 

I guess I just can't compartmentalize to the fangirl standards demanded of me.

[PiggyRod]

So I didn't hate this episode which makes it stand out.

 

The best thing hands down, Venus and Tig. I adore Venus!

The ambush very unrealistic but I'll take it to be done with it. The eye/fingers payback felt very good.

Abel! Finally! Those last minutes I was on the edge of my seat, I knew it would happen but I didn't know how. I cannot wait for the shit to hit the fan.

 

Now from the shallow end of the pool...can anyone provide me with a gif of Charlie's moves from the opening montage?... you know, for science.

Edited November 12, 2014 by PiggyRod

[Guest Accused Dingo]

5 year olds are NEVER good actors. I have not seen a single good child actor that young. They get better when they hit puberty and learn to emote....or they don't.

I think Abel was fine for what he is....an angry and confused kid who just got hit with another confusing peice of intel. Wendy is his Tummy Mommy which i think would click in his already confused mind with what he heard Grandma say about dead Tara Mommy and ask daddy if that was why grandma killed Mommy.

Now as for the rest of it...do i think a five year old can come up with that level a plan? With what the teacher said about his cut and getting whoever really did it in troble, i think it got the wheels is Abels head spinning. Its a bit upper level but not completly out of his reach. I've seen angry children do more with less. Plus the teacher really didn't like Gemma i don't think it took much convincing.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Accused Dingo

[Kris117]

Also do the writers really expect us to believe that Jax is still a "good person" just because other people in his inner circle /women he is having sex keep saying so, like the little soliloquy by the mistress of the week at the beginning?  No, he is not.  He has ordered and been directed involved in the killings of many, many people JUST THIS SEASON, probably far more than his father or father in law ever were responsible for in their decades of involvement with SAMCRO

 

 

I think we're supposed to know that, and see how Jax could look like a good person to a young woman who has been spending her life on the streets, and then think about how sad it is. Sad for that young woman, because he probably is one of the kindest men she's known in her life, and sad for Jax, because I can see glimpses of the person he could have been had he been adopted out and lived his life far away from the club. 

 

I agree with what others have posted , that for me, this was the best episode of the season.

• So yeah, completely unrealistic ambush of Moses and co., but still so satisfying.
• By the time we got to their scene at the end of the episode, I was in tears.  Walton Goggins and Kim Coates  didn't need to remind me how great they are, but that five plus minutes was just transcendent. Venus' sobbing at the end when she tries to "lilt" out "my precious Alexander, My salvation, my angel" drop mike. Wow.

 

 

Yes, I laughed when they drove up to the "cabin." At the time I was thinking that T.O. directed them there just because he knew that the white supremacists wouldn't stand for Moses and crew being on their property, but now I think that T.O., Tyler, and Jax had set this up assuming Moses would come after T.O. to get to the preacher's family. Jax was surprised that Rat had been picked up, but not T.O. However, I fail to see why T.O. thinks he owes Jax anything. 

 

The part of that sequence I found hardest to believe is that Moses left only one guy behind with Tyler, T.O., and Rat. 

 

That final scene with Tig and Venus was beautiful. Both actors hit it out of the park, and it is kind of amazing that the same guy who writes scenes of such violence and depravity can write a scene like that. That's why I still watch the show, I guess. I agree with the poster upthread that I'd watch those crazy kids Tig and Venus in a spinoff. 

 

I can believe that Abel made the connections he did. And of course, Gemma's response to her five-year-old grandson repeatedly digging a fork into his own flesh is, "He's five. He doesn't need a shrink." That's Gemma's knee-jerk reaction to any suggestion of outside help, but she eventually must realize that Abel talking to a psychiatrist would pose a threat to her. I don't like where those thoughts take me. 

 

I can't remember the exact line, but one of the women at Diosa joked about sitting around waiting to be assassinated by Chinese gangsters. I was waiting for her to add, "Too soon?"

 

While admiring the beauty of Jax's rear end at work, I was also admiring how carefully that scene was lit and shot, because there wasn't a glimpse of Jax's testicles, even at that angle. 

 

I liked the idea of Jarry playing a deep game, but after that last scene with Chibs, that seems less and less likely. She now seems like just another damaged woman. 

 

I was certain that the preacher's wife and stepson were toast, but at least they stayed alive for now. 

[TigerLynx]

Either Tig or Venus will be dead by the end, and it better be Tig.  Venus needs to live.  I like her, and Walton Goggins isn’t getting out of Justified or Harlan alive so Venus needs to live.

 

Chibbs finally gets screen time, and this is it?

 

Happy used to be the go to torturer, but now everyone gets in on the action.

 

Poor Abel and Thomas.

Edited November 12, 2014 by TigerLynx

[panthergirl13]

Firstly, the show is making a huge mistake with these "SOA Moments" they are airing during the commercial breaks because all it does is remind the audience of how good the show used to be.

Anyway...tonight's episode was, by far, the best of the season. I am glad Charlie turned down the cheese-tastic Christian Grey role but... if it meant a whole movie of looking at his backside then I would have gladly sat through the rest of it. Goodness.  Also, they way they always shoot his back and that tattoo is just....so pretty. 

 

Add me to the list of people who are totally distracted by the actor who plays Abel's acting abilities, or lack thereof. I read somewhere that it's twins that play the role so I guess they are both bad because I see no difference.  He does have the creepy thing down but I would imagine it's more accidental than anything else.  I do have a hard time believing that a 5 year old could even remotely deduce that lying about Grandma would produce the results it has.  It would have been more believable to leave the "trying to get Grandma in trouble" aspect out of it.  Just have Abel be so upset by Tara's death and everything else that he resorted to violence, since that's what he has been exposed to his whole life.  I had no idea where the bathroom stall scene was going. First he tied his shirt up on the railing, then when he opened the box, I figured there would be a gun in there. Then all I could focus on was how sad his lunch looked. A huge thermos and basically a smashed up sandwich.  What was the fork even for? 

 

Agreed on both of the above counts. I mentioned those SOA moments a few episodes ago and what a terrible idea that is. If they decide to show Opie I'm really gonna be upset. 

 

Re the "actor(s)" playing Abel... even Sutter concedes that they are terrible during the aftershow. Well then hire some talented children, idiot! (maybe there aren't a lot of parents who want their 5 year olds uttering words like "Grandma killed Mommy", so there's that.)

 

I finally finished watching the Aftershow which was more like the "Schmoopie" episode of Seinfeld. ("You're a schmoopie!" "No, YOU'RE a schmoopie!!) Walton Goggin's slobbering all over Sutter and his genius writing ability was really nauseating. I love that guy and will now choose to forget I ever saw it.

[Broderbits]

I have no problems at all with Abel's machinations; after all, even Charlie Manson had to start somewhere! Look at his environment for the first 5 years of his life, how could he turn out otherwise? If Gemma gave a thought to anyone besides herself, she would realize the kid is watching and listening to everyone and filing it away for future reference. But instead she just occasionally glances his way and says "He'll be fine". Next time you feel like confessing to the baby, make sure you shut the door.

 

Jax may briefly think Abel is lying, but then he'd have to ask "why would Abel make up a story to get Grandma in trouble?". 

[Artsda]

 

Were we supposed to believe that the ambush on Marks' guys was set in motion in advance, and that the pinching of TO and Rat was anticipated and planned? That ... defies belief.

 

TO was planned, Rat being with him was not planned. They didn't know Rat was still with him, Rat was supposed to go to the hospital when they called them.

[Stratego]

I want to focus on Rat.  Rat has been a very minor character yet he has had increased "screen time" without an adequate explanation.  Rat was in the opening sex montage with some never-seen-before blond from the new DN.  Prior to that he was shown to be "in love" with (can't think of her name!) girl who cared for Thomas and who earlier threw a rock through the "candy store" window.  Inconsistency!  This has to be a scene used to show "the real Rat".  Rat was summoned to the hospital--yet he stayed at the bar drinking with TO, forcing Unser to deal with Leland without any help.  As a result, Rat will be "picked-up" and will have even more screen time--in the bar, outside, torture scene next to TO, and then to the ambush scene at the house.  All of this has to be leading to something important.  Given his handle (Rat) we can sort of guess what he really is, as far as SAMCRO is concerned.  Who has been "controlling" him?    That likely won't be revealed until December.

[Guest Accused Dingo]

Rat is the Half-Sack of the Final Ride.

[psychoticstate]

I didn't hate this episode but I didn't love it either. 

 

I love me some Chibs but I don't understand the purpose of the relationship with the Sheriff.  They aren't really trading intel and she was initially presented as too smart to jeopardize her career and the town for some Scottish dick (even if it is Chibs).  I could see Chibs sexing her up if he could get info from her for the benefit of the club but to actually fall for her?  Um, no. 

 

I greatly appreciated seeing Charlie Hunnam's ass but otherwise did not care for his scenes with Winsome.  Her comment that he was a good man made me laugh out loud and tell her she was dead woman walking if she thought that. 

 

Whoever coined Unser's Stage 87 cancer - - major kadooz to you.  So very true.  Unser has appeared on his deathbed for seasons but dude will fuck you up if you come after the cop in the hospital. 

 

I'm not sure what was more ridiculous and far-fetched - - what went down with Moses and his henchmen or Abel plotting this conspiracy to bust Gemma.  As others have said, there were far too many unknowns with the plan with TO.  Rat wasn't supposed to be there but once the "cabin" was given up, why wouldn't Moses have killed Rat?  Who's to say that he wouldn't have killed TO once the location was provided?  Did none of his crew think the house they pulled up to could never be described as a "cabin"?  And how fortunate that Moses managed to stay alive during the initial shootout long enough to be mutilated like Bobby was.  I'm surprised that Jax didn't bring a spoon in preparation. 

 

Abel of the Corn . . . seriously, that kid gives me the creeps.  OF COURSE he doesn't need therapy!  He was only born a drug addicted baby, been kidnapped, barely survived an explosion at the TM Garage, been uprooted countless times, had his mother murdered in his home, been at least indirectly subjected to club members being murdered (wasn't Half Sac killed in front of him?) and overheard his grandmother confessing to killing his mother.  Damn, the kid should just be able to shrug that shit off with a "bygones!"  SMH.  And Jax decides this is the perfect time to tell him that Wendy is his biological mother?  They were speaking about sending him to a shrink - - maybe they should have consulted with a professional first? 

 

That said, there was no way he could possibly have conceived this master plan to bust Gemma.  No way.  If I didn't know better I would assume he is developmentally delayed and/or disabled.  He barely speaks and he appears to have no friends, unless his friends like having their melons busted open with a metal lunchbox.  Even if the most astute five year old can't connect the dots the way we're supposed to believe Abel is doing.  Sure, it would be some awesome retribution and justice for bitch on wheels Gemma to be brought down by a five year old - - a fitting Fork You?  He he.

 

Tig and Venus, I like.  Venus is actually too good for him.  I was worried sick during most of the episode that she would get hurt - - especially when my program description said SAMCRO was looking for love but finding death. 

[ElTVaddict]

Were all those sex scenes in the beginning necessary? I had a hard time telling who half the people were and I don't really care about any of these relationships. And the way the shot switched from Jax and his Tara replacement hooker to Gemma and Nero was creepy as fuck. 

 

Has anyone who writes for this show ever been around a child? Because the way they're writing 5 year old Abel is ridiculous. First of all, a kid his age who isn't developmentally delayed would be speaking much clearer and much more. My 2 and a half year old niece speaks much better than Abel. I know it's hard to get child actors to "act" so they mostly just recite lines, but if we're meant to believe Abel is capable of processing Gemma's confession and setting off the chain of events that is likely to end the series, then the show needs to do a better job of showing him to be of at least average intelligence for a kid his age. Also, kids don't formulate master plans to take down their enemies. They don't have the attention spans or reasoning to do so. A 5 year old cutting himself in the school bathroom to frame his evil grandmother? That's some sick shit... that would never actually happen. The more realistic approach would have been to have Abel overhear Gemma's confession and then simply repeat her words to Jax, because repeating things they overhear from adults is actually something small children are capable of... but sitting on explosive information for weeks and then making cold calculated moves that include self-harm to entrap a murderous grandparent, is not. 

 

ITA with both of these statements. It is very far fetched for a 5 yo to come up with such a scheme. So, now are we to believe that he did actually killed the birds and left the cryptic message on the wall.  All of this is out of character of the character and a 5 yo.

[Hava]

I think she deserves to be acknowledge as more than friend who helps out with the kids. Not only is she the only one on the show who has worked to improve herself and get healthy, but she seems to be the only one who places Abel's well-being over her own desires. Gemma and Jax constantly put themselves before the kids. However, I hated seeing Wendy mooning over Jax afterward like he did something wonderful for her. She shouldn't be groveling for his acceptance as her own son's mother. She's a much better person and parent than he is and I don't buy this lovey friendship between them, there's too much ugly history there... including the time Jax forcibly shot her up and undid years of hard work she did on herself.

 

Seriously, is the show choosing to ignore that Jax forcibly shot up Wendy? Because that was the moment that Jax became an irredeemable piece of shit in my eyes. Jax should be begging her for forgiveness.

 

And I agree that Wendy is better than all of these people, including Tara. She saw she had a problem and actively went out to improve herself. 

[yourmomiseasy]

Were we supposed to believe that the ambush on Marks' guys was set in motion in advance, and that the pinching of TO and Rat was anticipated and planned? That ... defies belief.

 

I think we're supposed to believe that Blackwater Guy called Tyler for a meeting.  Tyler called Jax to ask what to do since they are in cahoots.  Jax then set him up with the crazy plan to point to TO and have TO send them to the neo-nazi house.  Rat was probably at that bar/clubhouse talking to TO about the plan, but shit went down faster than expected and he got picked up too.  It was a very dangerous plan for Tyler and TO (and accidentally Rat) and they could have ended up maimed or dead, so I don't know why they went along with it.  I'm sure Jax wasn't worried about the collateral damage, so it makes sense he would come up with such a nutty plan.  It does seem out of character for Blackwater Guy to go to the nazi house himself and leave only a guy or maybe two guarding all the prisoners.  I think TO might have said the whole charter was at the cabin to get him to take a lot of guys there, but I didn't catch what he said and don't feel like rewatching.  The clearing of the nazi compound seemed sloppy too.  Maybe Blackwater Guy and team were getting cocky due to so easily capturing multiple Sons and had decided SAMCRO were a bunch of jokers?

 

I'm usually the one complaining about Abel, but this is how I saw it. Abel heard his grandma say something about hurting his mommy. Abel is confused by his mommy's death, Bobby's death, leaving his home etc and hurts himself for attention. He mentions Grandma because he is somehow mad at her without knowing why.

That's what I thought too, that he was just acting out due to all the insanity and mayhem in his life.  I don't think he was throwing shade at Gemma with the "Do you?" either, as funny as that would be, I think it was just not great acting from a little kid.  His actions this week are much more awesome if you ascribe them to adult motivations, but I think that's the same as thinking your dog dug in the trash because he was mad at you.  Dogs are not that complex, he dug in the trash because it smelled delicious, not because you yelled at him earlier in the day.  Although, the fork might have been his weapon of choice due to overhearing that's what killed Tara.  Are we supposed to think Thomas really scratched him, or was it another instance of self-harming and he just blamed Thomas?  I do think 5 is a little young to be a cutter, though, but I guess Abel has had a pretty shitty, chaotic, and violent life.  

[cam3150]

Re: Abel concocting this plan. I have read a few reviews, including tvline.com, and they all mention a scene where the teacher told Abel that if an adult hurts a child, the adult will get in trouble with the police, and this is what led to the bathroom stall / fork incident.  I am certain I saw the entire episode and I did not see this scene. Did anyone else?  I have not seen anyone mention it in the comments. Maybe it was in the screeners the entertainment websites get but was cut out of the final epsidoe (presumably to allow another butt shot)??  Or did I just black out at some point during the episode?

 

With that scene in place, Abel's actions make a lot more sense to me. At least we would know he did not come up with that all on his own. 

 

 

ETA: This is the exact quote from the tvline.com review:

 

 

When Abel goes to school that morning with a scrape over his eyebrow — an injury he attributes to baby brother Thomas — he learns from Ms. Harrison that if an adult hurt him, and he tells the truth about who it was, that adult could get in trouble with the school and the police. That’s when a lightbulb goes off over Abel’s head, and he carries out a plan that’s absurdly crafty for a 5-year-old whose facial expression is usually on the “vacant” setting.

 

Edited November 12, 2014 by cam3150

[daughtersofanarchy]

Wowee!

 

I told you last week Moses that you had a date with the Reaper.  Your eye got reaped, and your fingers, and your think-box.  Did you experience any kind of Deja Vu when those things were happening?  As far as you and your guys eagerly rushing into that trap, did you hear a funny stretching noise in the background?  That was the sound of credulity being strained.

 

Anyway:

 

I think they filmed the opening montage at Red Woody.

 

Totally agree that Jax trying to be nice to Wendy is ludicrous after the way he shot her up with drugs.  What's disgusting to me is that she has, what? forgiven him? decided to overlook it? still has feelings for him, as she admitted to Bobby?  She should have told him when they made this arrangement of her helping with the boys that she was doing it strictly for her son, and for Thomas, and she will never forget what Jax did to her.

 

Tig and Venus scenes were excellent.  I knew, in the morning scene, when Venus came out without her makeup on, and with her hair not fixed, Tig seemed taken aback because Venus now really looked like a guy.  I think that's what threw him.  The illusions were gone and Tig had to deal with the real person he is involved with, and all the complications that go with that relationship.  And Tig could no longer just skim along, as he has done, having sex with corpses, animals, and anything else that crossed his path.  Now he has to deal with a real, emotional, very complicated human being, and what's more, he finds he doesn't want to do anything to hurt that person.  Super acting from both of them.  I totally understand what's been said above about these scenes being so well done that they are actually too anomalous for this show, but I'll take good drama no matter where it shows up.

 

As far as Grandma Gemma, I'm fearing that her only punishment will be her being banished to The Farm with Nero, without Her Boys.  I'm afraid Jax won't kill her. 

[Mrs peel]

Y

et again, the Sons come up tops is a completely unbelievable way. Like honestly, how did the 12 year old that runs the Niners get in contact with the Sons to set this shit up when Moses was originally touted as smart and clandestine. No way he would have sent all his guys to that cabin without having the information verified first.

GoldenHera, I thought Jax had set this up in advance as a precaution.  At the very beginning of the episode, he talks with Rat about it in a veiled way.  I didn’t catch it at first, but sadly was still watching tv for the rerun. There was something about “don’t let it go on too long”, and “make sure to let [whoever] know the plan”.   Still stupid that idiot Jax could have pre-planned it. 

I actually didn’t like the payback, because I thought Marks’ security guy was too bright to fall for that, and I don’t care enough about Bobby to want/need exact vengeance.  If anything to Marks’ security guy torturing Bobby was just a job, not personal, but it was personal to Jax.

OMG, Jax! Why don't you throw some more world-shattering news at Abel, why don't you?

Disraeli Ears although it’s way more likely Abel wouldn’t have remembered, Jax did say he and Tara had explained Abel wasn’t biologically Tara’s.  But yeah, what idiot (1) tells a young child the only mother he knows – who just died! - isn’t his “real” Mom; and (2) drops the bomb as to the name of “real” Mom when the child is in crisis?  Jax for lousy parent of the year.
Kudos to Wendy for getting out of that embrace and asking about tea!  I was fearing they’d end up in bed together (right after Jax said they were better off as friends).

Well this was officially the Abel Teller Show.   Did he just say what I think he just said?  Not to mention for a five year old he comes up with pretty good master plans.  Hell his plans work better then daddy's do and they are far less complicated.  Cut myself and blame grandma and go live with Daddy.

I feared they were going to go with “Abel is a liar” as the theme to dismiss his outing of Gemma.  But the previews seem to focus on Jax learning more that will back up Abel.

On the aftershow Sutter referred to Abel “betraying” Gemma.  Earth to Sutter, 5 year olds don’t understand enough to “betray” anyone, he just repeated what Grandma said.

A few eps back, did Abel overhear Gemma say she used a fork to kill Tara, or that she just killed Tara? That would make his choice of a fork interesting.

Now that’s interesting, though I think he overhead Gemma generally saying killing Tara was an accident.  What are the odds that he first

Charlie Hunnam has a really weird real accent.  Almost like a New Yawk accent mixed with a slight English lilt.

Joan van Snark – ha!  I noticed that too on the aftershow.  I kept reading about how his accent was messed up in the show and yet I never seemed to notice.

[TheDancinMonarch]

 I'm afraid Jax won't kill her. 

 

If he doesn't then I can't figure why I've continued to watch.

 

Edited November 12, 2014 by TheDancinMonarch

[JLG]

On the aftershow Sutter referred to Abel “betraying” Gemma.  Earth to Sutter, 5 year olds don’t understand enough to “betray” anyone, he just repeated what Grandma said.

I, also, was bothered by his wording.  I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he was saying Abel said something without realizing that he shouldn't have; but after re-reading all the possible definitions, I believe Sutter means that Abel wronged Gemma.  Ugh.

[jrlr]

Abel heard Gemma say that killing mommy was an accident, but there was no mention of a fork in that scene.  That's why I LOVED Abel using a fork to hurt himself.  What I want to know is if Gemma knows that it was a fork.  If I were Gemma, that would be so freaky that it would send my right over the cliff into breakdown or confession.  Of course, since it's Gemma we're talking about, neither of those things will happen.  Poor Nero.

 

Speaking of Unser dying from the beginning of the series, so has Juice.  I recently watched the pilot episode again to make sure that I wasn't hallucinating, and that the show really HAD been better earlier.  Anyway, in that opener, Juice accidentally takes an overdose (he thought he was taking speed but it turned out to be some form of oxy elephant tranquilizer).  And it's been pretty much downhill for him since then.   

 

Who thought Marilyn Manson could act?  Wrong.

 

I had a different response to the Tig-Venus scene.  While I can believe that Venus would know how to talk about emotions and her feelings for Tig, I thought Tig's speech back to her (pretty and moving as it was) sounded like he was channeling someone else with with a brain, morals and an education, and it took me right out of the scene.

 

Jax has to have had one of the worst character arcs evah!  In seven seasons (I think) he's gone from being a brooding but thinking guy who was not at all happy when he had to be involved with violence to being a trigger-happy kill-em-all-and-sort-it-out-later (or not) psychopath.  The dude never seems to stop and think about anything before he does it - from mass murder to telling Abel about Wendy.   I'm still thinking - even with the finale last night - that Nero will figure out that Gemma killed Tara before anyone else does.  

[PiggyRod]

Re: Abel concocting this plan. I have read a few reviews, including tvline.com, and they all mention a scene where the teacher told Abel that if an adult hurts a child, the adult will get in trouble with the police, and this is what led to the bathroom stall / fork incident.  I am certain I saw the entire episode and I did not see this scene. Did anyone else?  I have not seen anyone mention it in the comments. Maybe it was in the screeners the entertainment websites get but was cut out of the final epsidoe (presumably to allow another butt shot)??  Or did I just black out at some point during the episode?

 

With that scene in place, Abel's actions make a lot more sense to me. At least we would know he did not come up with that all on his own. 

 

 

ETA: This is the exact quote from the tvline.com review:

Yes. That scene was most definitely in last night's episode.  They are a the breakfast table, Wendy, Gemma and that other girl when Abel comes with the cut on his eyebrow... he says it was Thomas and the other girl says she will trim his nails.

Later we see Abel being dropped off at school, someone gets him and hands in off to his teacher Courtney Love, she then asks him about the cut and he again says it was Thomas, she says something along the lines of "that's a big cut from a little brother" and tells him if he is sure it was him and that if anyone else, an adult, family member or friend had done that to him he needs to tell her because they can be in trouble with the police.

Charlie spoke precisely to this point on the Aftershow.  He told us what Jax was thinking when the sun next rose.

Can someone that saw the aftershow tell us what Charlie said about this?

[cam3150]

 

Yes. That scene was most definitely in last night's episode.  They are a the breakfast table, Wendy, Gemma and that other girl when Abel comes with the cut on his eyebrow... he says it was Thomas and the other girl says she will trim his nails.

Later we see Abel being dropped off at school, someone gets him and hands in off to his teacher Courtney Love, she then asks him about the cut and he again says it was Thomas, she says something along the lines of "that's a big cut from a little brother" and tells him if he is sure it was him and that if anyone else, an adult, family member or friend had done that to him he needs to tell her because they can be in trouble with the police

 

Haha, thanks!  Clearly I did black out then. I rememeber the breakfast table scene but I do not remember the scene from the school after he was dropped off. 

[Guest Accused Dingo]

Re: Abel concocting this plan. I have read a few reviews, including tvline.com, and they all mention a scene where the teacher told Abel that if an adult hurts a child, the adult will get in trouble with the police, and this is what led to the bathroom stall / fork incident. I am certain I saw the entire episode and I did not see this scene. Did anyone else? I have not seen anyone mention it in the comments. Maybe it was in the screeners the entertainment websites get but was cut out of the final epsidoe (presumably to allow another butt shot)?? Or did I just black out at some point during the episode?

With that scene in place, Abel's actions make a lot more sense to me. At least we would know he did not come up with that all on his own:

Gemma brings Abel to school standing there is the teacher who asks Abel where he got the nasty looking cut from. He says Tommy. The teacher looks up st Gemma and asks him if that is really true or if an adult did that to him. Abel asks of the adult will get into trouble like go to jail. The teacher says yes and i think looks right at Gemma. Its actually a very short scene and easy miss especially if you are not expecting what comes later. Edited November 12, 2014 by Accused Dingo

[tilly]

Can someone that saw the aftershow tell us what Charlie said about this?

 

This would be great. Maybe in the Media thread, if necessary? I can't find any way to watch the Aftershow outside of America. 

[ToniG]

Re: Abel concocting this plan. I have read a few reviews, including tvline.com, and they all mention a scene where the teacher told Abel that if an adult hurts a child, the adult will get in trouble with the police, and this is what led to the bathroom stall / fork incident.  I am certain I saw the entire episode and I did not see this scene. Did anyone else?  I have not seen anyone mention it in the comments. Maybe it was in the screeners the entertainment websites get but was cut out of the final epsidoe (presumably to allow another butt shot)??  Or did I just black out at some point during the episode?

 

With that scene in place, Abel's actions make a lot more sense to me. At least we would know he did not come up with that all on his own. 

 

 

 

Yup - this was the scene with Courtney Love and Abel, outside the school.  Then she took his hand, and they walked inside.

[Guest Accused Dingo]

IF I remember correctly there have been a few scenes with the teacher throughout the season that played like throwaway scenes that only mean something now.  1) Early in the season Gemma brings Abel to school and gets beeped at by a angry parent.The teacher tells her about proper dropping off procedures.  Gemma nods her understanding, says goodbye to Abel and then threatens parent. Teacher witness this laughs it off and says "Grandma's crazy".   2) Teacher tries to talk to Gemma about Abel's behavior at school and how he has been acting out but Gemma ignores her and threatens teacher. There is more to it I think something about Abel - there always is but the gist is Gemma and the teacher don't like each other anymore.    Not sure if there were any other moments between this and Gemma threatening of the teacher.   3)  Gemma drops of Abel with a cut on his head  at school.  Teacher asks Abel where he got the cut.  He says Tommy.  She asks if an adult did it.  Abel asks if an adult did would the adult get into trouble.  The teacher says yes.  And we are basically current.  

 

None of the scenes with the teacher (If I am even remembering them correctly) played like anything other then throwaway Gemma scenes.  It is only now that they mean something.  That Gemma's world is crumbling around her and that there are wolves at the gate.   

Edited November 13, 2014 by Accused Dingo

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Re: SOA Afterword....

Sutter revealed that Jax stayed up in Abel's room all night.

Charlie said Jax spent the time reflecting on events leading to him avenging Tara's murder.

Notably the Intel from Gemma that set things in motion.

Beginning to believe it was possible, then going into denial mode by sunrise.

But, still planning to investigate.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Lisin
tagged spoilers

[Bandolero]

I guess Jax and company killing all those people is somehow okay because they are "scumbags"... yet so is SAMCRO.  I don't buy the brotherhood nor the devotion everybody seems to have for Jax. It just does not ring true. Even Wendy seems so grateful and devoted to him even after how he treated her. Jax must be one hell of a charmer cause both women AND men seem to fall prey to his bullshit... even hardcore bikers. Go figure.

 

The Sons are no better than the people they kill and brutalize although the show seems to want us to believe otherwise.

 

Would a biker club really be okay with a member being with somebody like Venus... I doubt it.

 

I find it really hard to root for SAMCRO cause I dislike every single one of them... after all of the chaos, mayhem and death that they have caused they deserve some sort of comeuppance, yet apparently it is not to be. 

[spaceytraci1208]

On the aftershow Sutter referred to Abel “betraying” Gemma.  Earth to Sutter, 5 year olds don’t understand enough to “betray” anyone, he just repeated what Grandma said.

I just don't like the use of the word "betrayal", indicating that Abel did wrong by Gemma. I wonder if Sutter really believes that Gemma is some sort of victim in this situation. Maybe he doesn't realize (or care) that the viewing audience has been on Team "Fuck Gemma" for some time now...

[tilly]

Re: SOA Afterword....

Sutter revealed that Jax stayed up in Abel's room all night.

Charlie said Jax spent the time reflecting on events leading to him avenging Tara's murder.

Notably the Intel from Gemma that set things in motion.

Beginning to believe it was possible, then going into denial mode by sunrise.

But, still planning to investigate.

Thank you so much!

[DiabLOL]

Wait! Am I the only one who thinks/fears Tig will kill Venus??? I no longer trust anyone in the show including Sutter. Speaking of...

 

Also during the opening sexmontage I was terrified when the camera was panning down the humping Manson. I was sure there would be a dog there.

 

I've always enjoyed Manson's acting, actually. From Party Monster to Jawbreaker etc. I also appreciate what a burden his music career appearance and image must be to him.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

According to Charlie, Jax realizes the reason why Abel lied about the abuse is because of Gemma.

Which will lead to him connecting all the dots.

[DrSparkles]

Wait! Am I the only one who thinks/fears Tig will kill Venus???

No, I'm scared shitless about this. :(

[DiabLOL]

No, I'm scared shitless about this. :(

For me it was really his glazed eyes coupled with the improbable confession of feelings. Tig can't have nice things. Also he basically shot a guy who called him out on his relationship (and btw yea, how DID that guy know???) How much more heat will he have to take from all the homophobes he runs with because of this? Although I think he's a psychopath who would kill her because of all the feelings etc. throwing his world view/self image off kilter, not really the trouble.

[Puddy]

I can see Moses just walking in to that trap.  Of course I can.  August is in jail, he is in charge and he is cocky.  He figured no one would fuck with him after what happened to Bobby.  It is totally believable, considering the recent happenings.  He would also want to get the shit taken care of before his boss was back and score major Brownie points with August.  He made the mistake of thinking the gang was on mental vacation since Bobby's torture and murder.

 

psychoticstate - Moses said he would be back after checking if the information was correct.  He was not going to kill either hostage at that point.  If he was lied to, he was going to do more than just kill the liar.

 

Kris117 - Moses had no reason to leave a crew behind while he checked out the information.  He never thought they would lie again.

 

PS and by the way ~~ The kid did not betray Granny.  He called the bitch out.

 

Remember the previews from last week.  Unser has all of the crime scene photos spead out and is looking at them very carefully.

 

Madding crowd - I think Tig's comment about dead bodies was about customers stepping over dead bodies, not screwing dead bodies.

 

 

Say what you want to about Juice.  He is safe in jail - away from Gemma.  He can vouch for Abel.  I hope Juice makes it out alive.

 

 

My saddest moment last night was ~~

 

Venus stoking her morning beard and realizing the truth of the situation.  Hearing the fake nails scraping the whiskers made a huge impact.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Puddy

[WatchrTina]

 

Were we supposed to believe that the ambush on Marks' guys was set in motion in advance, and that the pinching of TO and Rat was anticipated and planned? That ... defies belief.

Yeah, that had me really confused too because it was clear when Rat was recovered that his getting snatched was not part of any plan. But I guess TO getting snatched WAS part of the plan and that's why he knew where to send them. Oh well, I've given up on following the plot on the inter-gang violence.  I'm just waiting for Gemma to be taken down (thank you Abel!)

 

 

Venus stoking her morning beard and realizing the truth of the situation.

Oh is that what was going on?  I just thought Venus was fresh from the shower and didn't have on any makeup so s/he looked much more manly than Tig is used to.  But if s/he also had morning beard, that would intensify the effect.  On the other hand, I presume s/he takes female hormones that would suppress facial hair.

 

Bottom line -- as much as I like the idea of Tig and Venus, there is no way guys in a motorcycle club would be totally cool with one of their members dating a transexual -- especially one that's kept the original equipment below the belt.