Current Plots Discussion: Actually Today's Episode

[JBC344]

15 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

 

I don’t see it as him being saintly, I actually like seeing a character not suddenly morph into a petty, selfish, agenda filled monster because they cannot have what or whomever they want,

I like messy soap characters fine, but I also like balance and seeing adults be adults.

To me Paul is far from perfect, he’s made quite a few mistakes and he doesn’t pretend otherwise, but he also isn’t the type to go looking for trouble or wants to wrecking ball lives just to get his way.

Those like Brady and Stefan and Chad and quite a few others seem to fill that role plenty, I want a good guy to root for sometimes.

I also don’t think Paul’s “goodness” reflects badly on Will and Sonny.

I personally don’t care for the pair based on their own past behavior, long, long before Paul ever showed up, and the fact I think both characters lack a lot and always have. 

Even if they removed Paul completely from their story I would still view them as very silly and ridiculous, and purposefully blind to the facts and truth about their not so great romance and love. 

IMO, Will and Sonny have always been their own worse enemies. 

Anyway, on to today’s episode.

Christopher Sean makes me believe him in his scenes, I sometimes take that for granted on a soap. 

Curious choice to have Roman play stand in Daddy for Paul, though it was kind of sweet to see him being able to comfort someone since so often he is kept away from much of his family during times of crisis. 

Like Sami for instance, she and Roman still haven’t had a single scene, of importance anyhow, it’s so dumb how they compartmentalize characters away from their closest relatives. 

Will and Sonny were themselves as usual, that’s all I got.

I have no words for the whole baby crisis Lucas is facing. What about this idea screamed “must make happen” to the writing team? 

I remember when I last tuned out from watching, over a decade ago, they were consistently wasting Lucas and some things just never change.

Belle, you better strap in when confronting John, it’s not going to go well. 

If only I cared about any of it at all. 

Greg is just delicious to look at, at least he gave me something good to focus on in the scenes with sniffling Belle. 

Oh I don't disagree.  I like good characters as well.  I just think that TPTB don't know how to write good characters anymore, or they don't know how to write them with any motive or agency.  I always use one of my favorite characters as an example, Carrie Brady.  I was always team Carrie, but will admit that Sami was the far better written character.  The mistakes they made with Carrie was relying on her being the "good girl" to Sami's "bad girl".  That is not good character motivation.  Carrie was always in opposition of Sami, her perspective, and motivation was almost always  lost in the writing.  So then when they did give her challenges they just came off very sloppy with no connection.

I feel that they have been heading down this road with Paul for a while.  Paul was not this saintly sweet when he was first introduced.  Right now, Paul has been relegated to "third wheel", his agency, and motivation hasn't been there for a while.  The character has not been allowed to branch out from that roll of interloper in popular triangle. Everything about his character is reactionary as opposed to being proactive.

For me, it really isn't a question of good or bad.  For example, there was a point where they were putting Paul in scenes with Gabi and they were starting to develop a friendship, that never materialized. Paul has also had some scenes with Chloe, that never materialized.  We don't really get any actual substantial scenes with Paul and Brady which is why Brady's rant fell flat for a lot of us. When Paul hid Will's identity for 24hrs last year, I didn't agree with the choice but I understood it from a character standpoint and it was him trying to take some control over his life.

Now what would really shock me in this situation is if the writer's allow Paul to actually be introspective and take some responsibility for his own actions.  As much as Paul may rightfully feel wronged the reality is that he knowingly got involved with an amnesiac Will with the possibility that Will may get his memories back and go back to Sonny.

[bobcat1946]

Will and Sonny do not give a hoot about Paul.  They are just afraid Will will not get to break Paul's heart quick enough.

[Apprentice79]

33 minutes ago, JBC344 said:

Oh I don't disagree.  I like good characters as well.  I just think that TPTB don't know how to write good characters anymore, or they don't know how to write them with any motive or agency.  I always use one of my favorite characters as an example, Carrie Brady.  I was always team Carrie, but will admit that Sami was the far better written character.  The mistakes they made with Carrie was relying on her being the "good girl" to Sami's "bad girl".  That is not good character motivation.  Carrie was always in opposition of Sami, her perspective, and motivation was almost always  lost in the writing.  So then when they did give her challenges they just came off very sloppy with no connection.

Exactly, Carrie has her own history that predates Sami. Her mother issues and her history with Tony and Stefano were never mined by the show to give her stories outside of Sami/Austin/Lucas. Stefano kidnapping Carrie was the best Carrie story ever.  Carrie as a kid going up against Stefano was  great, the cat and mouse game between them.  Stefano vacillating between being a caring father and scary kidnapper was fascinating to watch. Carrie trying to be brave and remaining steadfast that Rojohn would save her.  Stefano telling her that Rojohn was not her dad. 

I don't think that Stefano and Carrie as an adult ever had a scene together.  Tony never even asked about Carrie when he came back after being held on that island by Stefano. He showed more concern for Sami than Carrie. He never even had a relationship with Sami.  Carrie was his stepdaughter and he loved her very much.

Christy Clark was a good actress as a kid.  The show gave her intense scenes, stories and she always rose to the occasion. Her chemistry with Drake was divine.  They remain close till this day. 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Apprentice79

[TeeVee329]

1 hour ago, Apprentice79 said:

I was so happy to see T-boz as Sheila. She will make this ridiculous Bonnie story palatable. 

 

I enjoy her too.  But I forget - was she on the run for something when she left town last time?

Also, Ron, that baby's name best not be Gigi.

Edited September 10, 2018 by TeeVee329

[AnswersWanted]

57 minutes ago, JBC344 said:

Oh I don't disagree.  I like good characters as well.  I just think that TPTB don't know how to write good characters anymore, or they don't know how to write them with any motive or agency.  I always use one of my favorite characters as an example, Carrie Brady.  I was always team Carrie, but will admit that Sami was the far better written character.  The mistakes they made with Carrie was relying on her being the "good girl" to Sami's "bad girl".  That is not good character motivation.  Carrie was always in opposition of Sami, her perspective, and motivation was almost always  lost in the writing.  So then when they did give her challenges they just came off very sloppy with no connection.

I feel that they have been heading down this road with Paul for a while.  Paul was not this saintly sweet when he was first introduced.  Right now, Paul has been relegated to "third wheel", his agency, and motivation hasn't been there for a while.  The character has not been allowed to branch out from that roll of interloper in popular triangle. Everything about his character is reactionary as opposed to being proactive.

For me, it really isn't a question of good or bad.  For example, there was a point where they were putting Paul in scenes with Gabi and they were starting to develop a friendship, that never materialized. Paul has also had some scenes with Chloe, that never materialized.  We don't really get any actual substantial scenes with Paul and Brady which is why Brady's rant fell flat for a lot of us. When Paul hid Will's identity for 24hrs last year, I didn't agree with the choice but I understood it from a character standpoint and it was him trying to take some control over his life.

Now what would really shock me in this situation is if the writer's allow Paul to actually be introspective and take some responsibility for his own actions.  As much as Paul may rightfully feel wronged the reality is that he knowingly got involved with an amnesiac Will with the possibility that Will may get his memories back and go back to Sonny.

 

I absolutely concur that I think Paul has been sorely underutilized, especially since I so feel CS is a very strong and capable actor able to play anything thrown his way.

But to have him turn course now, IMO, would read just as plot pushed and pointless as anything else. 

I would rather he remain partly bland but tolerable than watch him transform into someone who is so without decency or morality. They barely tried before but then suddenly switched gears and here we are. 

If they had gone further and fleshed out deeper Paul’s resentment, anger, and misery over Will’s return, over losing Sonny, then it’d make sense to me to see a man with clear devious motives and desire to come out the winner this time at any cost, using any and all means necessary to get his way. 

I liked Paul’s spunk and drive and fire when he first arrived, but they mellowed him out, way too much I do agree, but it’s been that way now more than it hasn’t and I don’t want to see some pitiful “the switch is flipped” excuse to explain a personality change so drastic. 

I would love for Paul to be a full rounded character with all varying shades, but Ron has refused to truly use him in that way and I am of the belief of rather just leaving well enough alone at this stage in the game.

I know some see a saintly Paul, but I more so just see a safe guy, just like Brady called him a “placeholder”, that is exactly how they write him. 

He’s just the safe choice, the safe option, the safe bet, and I do hate that but I’d hate it more to see “villain” Paul suddenly emerge on the flip side. 

Edited September 10, 2018 by AnswersWanted

[TeeVee329]

3 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

I absolutely concur that I think Paul has been sorely underutilized, especially since I so feel CS is a very strong and capable actor able to play anything thrown his way.

But to have him turn course now, IMO, would read just as plot pushed and pointless as anything else.

Yup.  A turn now would be more of a Ron trope than anything, the third party going off the rails to prop the destined couple.  OLTL was rife with examples, Schuyler in particular is the one that leaps to mind here, he was absolutely destroyed to cram Rex and Gigi back together (even though the transparency meant I rooted for/pitied Sky the whole way through).

Edited September 10, 2018 by TeeVee329

[TigerLynx]

46 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

Exactly, Carrie has her own history that predates Sami. Her mother issues and her history with Tony and Stefano were never mined by the show to give her stories outside of Sami/Austin/Lucas. Stefano kidnapping Carrie was the best Carrie story ever.  Carrie as a kid going up against Stefano was  great, the cat and mouse game between them.  Stefano vacillating between being a caring father and scary kidnapper was fascinating to watch. Carrie trying to be brave and remaining steadfast that Rojohn would save her.  Stefano telling her that Rojohn was not her dad. 

I don't think that Stefano and Carrie as an adult ever had a scene together.  Tony never even asked about Carrie when he came back after being held on that island by Stefano. He showed more concern for Sami than Carrie. He never even had a relationship with Sami.  Carrie was his stepdaughter and he loved her very much.

Christy Clark was a good actress as a kid.  The show gave her intense scenes, stories and she always rose to the occasion. Her chemistry with Drake was divine.  They remain close till this day. 

I thought it was interesting that when Alyson Sweeney left, she said she missed working with Christy, and she really enjoyed the Sami/Carrie/Lucas/Austin SLs.

12 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

If they had gone further and fleshed out deeper Paul’s resentment, anger, and misery over Will’s return, over losing Sonny, then it’d make sense to me to see a man with clear devious motives and desire to come out the winner this time at any cost, using any and all means necessary to get his way. 

This would have been a good development for Paul, and again would not make it look like the writers are just spinning their wheels until they can reunite Will and Sonny.

[Apprentice79]

18 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

I thought it was interesting that when Alyson Sweeney left, she said she missed working with Christy, and she really enjoyed the Sami/Carrie/Lucas/Austin SLs.

This would have been a good development for Paul, and again would not make it look like the writers are just spinning their wheels until they can reunite Will and Sonny.

Rumor has it that Dena wanted to fire Christopher and had no use for Paul. She and Griffith were forced to write for Paul.  Paul was on the show without Wilson was not used at all, just generic scenes that had no substance. Paul should have been a villain and never should have been John's son...Dena hated the retcon as well.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Apprentice79

[AnswersWanted]

24 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

Yup.  A turn now would be more of a Ron trope than anything, the third party going off the rails to prop the destined couple.  OLTL was rife with examples, Schuyler in particular is the one that leaps to mind here, he was absolutely destroyed to cram Rex and Gigi back together (even though the transparency meant I rooted for/pitied Sky the whole way through).

 

Couldn’t agree more. 

Ron has shown how he likes to pull such shenanigans more than a few times across varying soapscapes and I have yet to witness it working out well for any of the characters involved. 

Making Paul suddenly dark and brooding and vengeful would be just another cheap ploy with no buildup or purpose except to create unnecessary drama, IMO. 

I think just handling Will’s returned memories and feelings for Sonny and Paul’s shared history with them both will do enough, I just hope it doesn’t get too tedious and drawn out. 

They really dropped the ball, in my mind, by having Will pretty much fall out of true love with Paul immediately, that’s where the real dramatics and turmoil could have existed, Will having to pick between an old love from the past and seeing if it’d be worth revisiting or his new love with a strong future ahead to choose from. 

 

12 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

This would have been a good development for Paul, and again would not make it look like the writers are just spinning their wheels until they can reunite Will and Sonny.

 

I had hopes for five seconds they might go in that direction when he decided not to come clean about seeing Will alive. 

But, alas, they put out that fire before it even started smoldering, 

Just like you said, the writers have just been keeping him steady as the “other guy” between Will and Sonny. 

Now that Will is bound and set to reunite with Sonny, Paul’s role just becomes even more useless and it’s a shame he really has never been given anything else to do or be apart of. 

[Silver Raven]

I wouldn't trust Shane to be on top of anything.  This is the same Shane that let his daughter be a sex slave to a drug lord.

[Happytobehere]

2 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

I loved the Belle/Eric scenes. We never get them. So, I am loving it.  I feel that Sherry was at the wheel when these scenes were written. The Brady family was her baby. 

Is it just me or does Greg Vaugh have inappropriate chemistry with the actresses who play his sisters. His chemistry with Alyson Sweeney is at times very distracting.  

This Lucas story is so stupid. I will never understand why the show has never given him a story outside of Kate and Sami. 

This is an unpopular opinion, but, I always thought that the show limited Lucas by making him a Horton. The show never plays up his Horton connections.  

Christopher Sean is a fantastic actor.  That being said, it annoys me that Wilson are being made to be selfish assholes for Saint Paul.

I do love that a Gay triangle is getting the same story that we have all seen with straight characters for years on soaps. I just wish that Ron would take his time to write the story. Even if Wilson is endgame, the journey is what will make people want them to get together. 

I just can't with this Steve/Kayla story. Marybeth always shines no matter what they give her.

I was so happy to see T-boz as Sheila. She will make this ridiculous Bonnie story palatable. 

 

I agree with all of this, especially the mistep that was making Lucas a Horton. It limited him in so many ways what with Salem being the inbreeding capital of America.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Happytobehere
Typo

[kitmerlot1213]

I liked the Belle/Eric scenes and their talk about their talk about Marlena's medical wishes--very realistic and gut-wrenching and well played by both actors.  Eric and Belle want their mom back but they also have to abide by her living will.  How the heck is John going to react to this news?

I believe that both Will and Sonny are truly worried about Paul and they want to minimize his pain as much as possible.  They aren't carrying on a heartless affair and they shouldn't be demonized for wanting to be together.  They realize they love each other and they want their life with each other and their daughter back, they aren't evil or cruel and I think they are handling this situation as well as they can.

I do however wonder about Kayla and her acting like Will is some nice but random young man she helped rather then a beloved nephew.  Seriously, she makes a vague mention to being happy for Will's family--Kayla you do realize that Will is part of your family right?  His mother (your niece) and grandfather (your brother) are both Bradys?

[Apprentice79]

6 minutes ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I believe that both Will and Sonny are truly worried about Paul and they want to minimize his pain as much as possible.  They aren't carrying on a heartless affair and they shouldn't be demonized for wanting to be together.  They realize they love each other and they want their life with each other and their daughter back, they aren't evil or cruel and I think they are handling this situation as well as they can.

I agree with you Wilson are not evil, but, the writing sucks. People are trashing Wilson on other boards. I don't think Ron wanted that type of visceral reaction. Horita has a popular following. I used to constantly trash Horita, even I got on board because the chemistry between Paul and Will was undeniable.  Not to mention, Chandler seemed more comfortable in intimate scenes with Christopher. He is still stiff but it is much better.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Apprentice79

[TeeVee329]

Part of the problem for me is that I can't forget how coldly and remorselessly Sonny dumped Paul when Will came BFTD.  So it's hard to buy that he "feels bad" or is "super worried" when he's getting exactly what he's wanted for months.  Will/Chandler Massey, however, is selling it.

And this reaction to Will and Sonny, again, reminds me so much of what happened with Rex/Gigi/Schuyler on OLTL.  Ron sometimes can be blind to how the couple being pushed forward is looking in these situations.

Edited September 10, 2018 by TeeVee329

[AnswersWanted]

3 hours ago, bobcat1946 said:

Will and Sonny do not give a hoot about Paul.  They are just afraid Will will not get to break Paul's heart quick enough.

 

I do believe Will still cares, it’s just dumb and ridiculous that they have written him to just suddenly have no real love forward feelings toward Paul after a day of getting his memories back. 

He should be way more conflicted about his choice and not just falling all over Sonny as if he’s the only option that he could possibly pick.

Just the fact that they want to scrub all the pain and heartache Will and Sonny went through in the past is another plot point meant to speed things along and it does nothing for the overall story. 

Will had enough time to develop something real with Paul, there was no need to dump all over that so quickly and casually.

As for Sonny...for me the question is when hasn’t he been selfish and self centered? I have never cared for Sonny, ever, since Freddie first appeared.

Never liked Freddie and Sonny is and was always boring and dreadful to me.

I think Ron wants us to believe that Sonny “cares” for Paul but it just reads as fake and disingenuous after his treatment of Paul a mere few months ago.

Sonny got what he wanted so now he can “there there” poor deserted Paul because he’s gotten his prize, Will, back so all is fine and dandy. 

It would have made a lot more sense and have not inflamed so many if the show hadn’t so obviously picked a side.

They could have played this as three men finding their way through pain and uncertainty and misery and grief and finally acceptance and peace, instead of this hurried, sloppy, rush job on a so called “super” couple’s reunion that really doesn’t seem to have the payoff worth all the wreckage left in its’ wake, IMO. 

[Lisa418722]

1 hour ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I do however wonder about Kayla and her acting like Will is some nice but random young man she helped rather then a beloved nephew.  Seriously, she makes a vague mention to being happy for Will's family--Kayla you do realize that Will is part of your family right?  His mother (your niece) and grandfather (your brother) are both Bradys?

1

I think the writers long ago forgot Kayla is a Brady.  She has always had a closer relationship with Abby (not as much JJ though except when he found out Jack raped her) than her brothers' and sister's children, which always drives me crazy.  

[bobcat1946]

3 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

Rumor has it that Dena wanted to fire Christopher and had no use for Paul. She and Griffith were forced to write for Paul.  Paul was on the show without Wilson was not used at all, just generic scenes that had no substance. Paul should have been a villain and never should have been John's son...Dena hated the retcon as well.

I see the hot to trot Sonny and Will as the villains.

[QueenSerena]

3 hours ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I believe that both Will and Sonny are truly worried about Paul and they want to minimize his pain as much as possible.  They aren't carrying on a heartless affair and they shouldn't be demonized for wanting to be together.  They realize they love each other and they want their life with each other and their daughter back, they aren't evil or cruel and I think they are handling this situation as well as they can.

Absolutely, and I'm glad things played out the way they did today. Will was going to wait to tell Paul his intentions re: Sonny until Paul pushed him, and then everything else brought Will & Sonny's plans crashing down. But I was pretty ticked off seeing the complaints (primarily on other boards) about Will being heartless when we didn't know for sure what he'd tell Paul, and today cleared it up.

Edit: And now that I think about it some more, it's still not clear that Will would have told him. Either way, I'm glad he recognizes the need to be honest while trying to be as compassionate as possible, given the crazy circumstances.

Quote

I do however wonder about Kayla and her acting like Will is some nice but random young man she helped rather then a beloved nephew.  Seriously, she makes a vague mention to being happy for Will's family--Kayla you do realize that Will is part of your family right?  His mother (your niece) and grandfather (your brother) are both Bradys?

That's one of the weirdest things about this show, lol. They established that Kayla would babysit Ari back when she was a newborn, Will even called her Aunt Kayla at the time. I'm sure there have been plenty other instances where they acknowledged their relationship. They only seem to remember the million ways people are related in Salem when it suits their needs. Otherwise, I guess they feel it's too much to keep track of or might creep people out too much.

Edited September 11, 2018 by QueenSerena

[howmanywords]

6 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

Is it just me or does Greg Vaugh have inappropriate chemistry with the actresses who play his sisters. His chemistry with Alyson Sweeney is at times very distracting.  

 

Very! Did you ever see the movie they were in where they played a couple? IIRC it was called Second Chances. It was so bizarre to watch. You saw just how much chemistry they really have, then I had to keep telling myself this wasn't Eric and Sami! Then I see the chemistry here and it really is distracting.

[Apprentice79]

3 minutes ago, howmanywords said:

Very! Did you ever see the movie they were in where they played a couple? IIRC it was called Second Chances. It was so bizarre to watch. You saw just how much chemistry they really have, then I had to keep telling myself this wasn't Eric and Sami! Then I see the chemistry here and it really is distracting.

Yes, I did see it once.  I was embarrassed to say that I watch cheesy Hallmark movies, on occasion...lol

Lifetime became too much women in distress movies. Kate Mansi has played a psycho before on there..

Edited September 11, 2018 by Apprentice79

[Frozendiva]

Only the first 35 minutes recorded for me.

Still puzzled about Bonnie being able to have a baby.

Suuuure, Shane is on top of the Steve problem.

[superdeluxe]

4 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

I agree with you Wilson are not evil, but, the writing sucks. People are trashing Wilson on other boards. I don't think Ron wanted that type of visceral reaction. Horita has a popular following. I used to constantly trash Horita, even I got on board because the chemistry between Paul and Will was undeniable.  Not to mention, Chandler seemed more comfortable in intimate scenes with Christopher. He is still stiff but it is much better.

I realized those are just bitter pill (really Paul) fans.  They jumped aboard the pill bandwagon because they wanted to see two, I guess, good looking guys rolling around in bed.  And their hate for Freddie/Sonny is just irrational at this point.  The man can’t even breathe without them complaining.  They blame him for everything.  So, I’ve learned to roll my eyes at those people and continue on.

[TeeVee329]

Not offense, but I hate that generalization.  I don't like how Will and Sonny's reunion is being written and performed on Freddie Smith's end - and even though I don't, I've acknowledged again and again that's it's classic soap - because I don't like it, not because I'm a bitter stan.

[DisneyBoy]

Quote

Suuuure, Shane is on top of the Steve problem.

Well of course he is! Remember the great job he did looking out for Theresa while she was in Mexi....

 

Oh. Right.

[Princess Consuela]

22 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

Not offense, but I hate that generalization.  I don't like how Will and Sonny's reunion is being written and performed on Freddie Smith's end - and even though I don't, I've acknowledged again and again that's it's classic soap - because I don't like it, not because I'm a bitter stan.

I'm with you on this.  Just because I'm a Horita fan doesn't mean I'm bitter stan.  Not all of us who dislike Will with Sonny are Freddie haters.   I have my own reasons for hating how Will getting his memories back is being written & I do think that Sonny seems very desperate & all me, me, me.  I would rather Will spend more time with his daughter, his parents & his grandparents then jumping back into a relationship with Sonny right away (especially since they weren't in a good place when Will "died")

Edited September 12, 2018 by Princess Consuela
Grammar

[peachmangosteen]

11 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

Kate Mansi has played a psycho before on [Lifetime]..

That feels right.

[betweenthelines]

That whole generalization is a joke IMO. I loved Will and Sonny together but I feel like Will has outgrown that pairing as an adult. It's no secret that I love Will and Paul, but with the way Sonny has been written since his return (and his new need to make everything about himself, and act like Will is his possession) has finally turned me off the character completely. 

My personal dislike for Sonny has nothing to do with me liking Will and Paul together, but they are definitely the healthier Will pairing (and I'm a Will fan first). It has to do with Freddie's complete lack of effort. I was all for Will and Sonny when Will started to have the flashbacks at the wedding since I appreciate a good soap trope, and enjoyed the lead up to the "reunion" until Sonny opened his mouth and pressured Will into telling him what was wrong and then subsequently grabbing him and making him remember when it was clear he was really upset and wanted to leave. Sonny making it all about him just comes off as desperate and awful. That was the nail in both Sonny's and WilSon's coffin for me. Sonny showing up at the hospital when Will told him not to was just tackless. I hope it all backfires for him in the coming months.  

I think the writing is bad, Will should be really torn here. Chandler is really the only one saving the story since he is great at playing the nuances of Will being torn when the writing is clearly not pushing that narrative but instead, is forcing Will and Sonny back together with real no build up. It doesn't work, especially with the way the character of Sonny has been written and Will is being regressed in the process.

Edited September 11, 2018 by betweenthelines

[DisneyBoy]

All of this Advanced Directive talk would be much more effective if we hadn't just seen a similar story line last year when Brady was shot by Xander. It took me a minute to figure out why I wasn't moved by these great performances, and then I remembered the DNR sign that was placed on Brady's door and all of the pointless hooplah over the fact that he was going to die and then the magic of Holly's heartbeat restoring Brady's ailments. God, that was idiotic. Even if this new story is better written, it feels like a rehash already and I'm just not feeling it. There should be some rule that soaps can't do the exact same thing one year after the other just for the sake of keeping things fresh. And we all know they're not going to kill off Marlena.

Christopher is bringing so much to his scenes today. I really admire his work ethic.

Careful Chandler - I'm not seeing much difference between the Will who didn't remember and then Will that does. I also really don't enjoy this sudden light switch of emotion towards Sonny. It feels way too much like Adrienne and Justin's reunion last year. I know you guys have been having a deeper conversation about this, but consider me on board for wanting to see more layers out of this particular storyline considering it took them a year to build up to it.

I hope that if nothing else, badass Gabbi shows up to lend her old friend Paul some support and tells it like it is about Will and Sonny's messed-up relationship. She definitely seems like she'd be in the mood to call them out on their BS. Not that I think Paul is some saint. I just have to give more sympathy to the person who is now paralyzed. And there too, the show just did this with Theo last year. Again? Is this going to be an annual thing?

...does this mean Paul broke Kristen's fall?

Whoever said that it would be a great twist if Marlena's paperwork was actually forged by Kristen is exactly right. Which is probably why the show never thought to do that.

Baby BonBon? I love it.

Judi looks so beautiful with that wig/extensions.

[Garnett7]

14 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

Not offense, but I hate that generalization.  I don't like how Will and Sonny's reunion is being written and performed on Freddie Smith's end - and even though I don't, I've acknowledged again and again that's it's classic soap - because I don't like it, not because I'm a bitter stan.

100% the same. There was a time that I loved Sonny. But the writing has done him no favors these past couple years. I can barely stand seeing him on-screen anymore and it has nothing to do with Paul. I am a Paul fan, but that alone is not why Sonny has annoyed me since he came back to town. I don't appreciate how he's treated Paul but I also don't appreciate how he's treated everyone else in Salem.

I don't feel the "great love" of WilSon. The writers having every other character declare them the be all and end all of couples is just talk, show it to me. Make me care. And I don't feel like the writing or the acting has done that. It often feels like Sonny is just fixated on Will and wanting to possess and control him.

Edited September 11, 2018 by Garnett7

[Apprentice79]

35 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

Whoever said that it would be a great twist if Marlena's paperwork was actually forged by Kristen is exactly right. Which is probably why the show never thought to do that.

It would be ideal if Kristen planted the DNR in Marlena's papers. Using both of Marlena's daughters to inadvertently kill her would be ingenious. I have always felt that Kristen should have been the heir to Stefano.  I was always fascinated by their relationship. They always seemed like equals.  Tony was never really a Dimera, he ran from his roots.  Andre was too psycho. Chad is not a ruthless Dimera and Stefan is a joke, an embarrassment to be honest.  Kristen could continue where Renee could not.  I would love to see Peter come back, I think that he had more story to tell.. I have given up on ever seeing him, due to backstage shenanigans.

Edited September 11, 2018 by Apprentice79

[QueenSerena]

14 hours ago, superdeluxe said:

I realized those are just bitter pill (really Paul) fans.  They jumped aboard the pill bandwagon because they wanted to see two, I guess, good looking guys rolling around in bed.  And their hate for Freddie/Sonny is just irrational at this point.  The man can’t even breathe without them complaining.  They blame him for everything.  So, I’ve learned to roll my eyes at those people and continue on.

I liked this, but after some of the posts that followed, I feel that I should explain a bit. I haven't seen it so much here but over on stan twitter? Yikes........it's ugly and flat-out vicious at times. That's the kind of stuff I go out of my way to avoid.

[Apprentice79]

12 minutes ago, QueenSerena said:

I liked this, but after some of the posts that followed, I feel that I should explain a bit. I haven't seen it so much here but over on stan twitter? Yikes........it's ugly and flat-out vicious at times. That's the kind of stuff I go out of my way to avoid.

Twitter is a cesspool and the Sonny hatred is exaggerated at times and it reminds me of how Will was treated in 2015, when he was being called a slut, bitch, whore, all forms of derogatory terms used to insult  and debase women. It was not lost on me why they were doing it to Will.. 

[TeeVee329]

Why again is Roman randomly sitting with Paul?  Was that supposed to be Steve or something?  Why not Brady if they want to build up that brotherly bond?  Relatedly, has there been any noise about someone calling Paul's mother?

I kinda love that Bonnie named the (super cute, btw) baby after herself.  And Sheila's amusement watching Bonnie and Lucas fight amused me.

[AnswersWanted]

13 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

Why again is Roman randomly sitting with Paul?  Was that supposed to be Steve or something?  Why not Brady if they want to build up that brotherly bond?  Relatedly, has there been any noise about someone calling Paul's mother?

I kinda love that Bonnie named the (super cute, btw) baby after herself.  And Sheila's amusement watching Bonnie and Lucas fight amused me.

 

Paul is only allowed relatives unto himself apparently every three to four years, give or take. 

CS killed it today, I love how he emotes, not too much and never over the top, and probably one of the best male criers I’ve seen in some time. 

Will and Sonny were there again today, I am already tired of them spending so much time together. 

Eric was still looking good enough to eat today. 

[Chick2Chic]

15 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

Not offense, but I hate that generalization.  I don't like how Will and Sonny's reunion is being written and performed on Freddie Smith's end - and even though I don't, I've acknowledged again and again that's it's classic soap - because I don't like it, not because I'm a bitter stan.

This is me. I don't really care about this triangle at all cause I don't really care about any of the pairings - tho some work better than others between the 3 characters - but the writing for it sucks hardcore. It's rushed too. That doesn't make me a bitter stan because I think think Will and Sonny look self-centered nor that I think Paul is getting the bum end of things.

Not everyone who dislikes a story or pairing is a bitter stan. Sometimes that is true and sometimes it's an over-generalization of how something is being received as a way to dismiss it IMO. 

Also, why is Belle so heinous since her return for the wedding? 

[tjsmom]

On 9/9/2018 at 1:27 AM, DisneyBoy said:

Welcome, TJSMOM! I wholeheartedly agree with your comments and no, that does not sound stupid at all. I think that is exactly what everyone is hoping for - for the world to become a place where people are judged by the content of their character first and foremost.

I do think however you should know that about a year-and-a-half to two years ago the show pretty much erased all the gay characters from the canvas. Will's death was part of the big push to get rid of all the progress they had made when they first had the character come out. It was really stomach-churning because the show got all sorts of acclaim for their coming out storyline for Will, and then disposed of him after pushing him into the background for months and making him into someone extremely unlikable (the LA affair being one of many examples). And they did all of this to coincide with the show's 50th Anniversary no less! It was a very dark time.

 

Thankfully head writer Ron is gay himself and has, I think, the support of the vast majority of the viewers who picked up on this shift and complained about it. That's why we're now seeing a different kind of show. I still think it would be better to have two more gay or bi characters around to round things out, but for the time being at least there are three. (FYI, Paul was the only gay character around for a while because Sonny was absent from the series for a stretch. He was "gay" but you'd never know it at the time from watching his scenes.

Since you were a big fan back in the day, I'm curious to hear what you think about Roman as he is today :)

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome!  

DisneyBoy, that's interesting about the slate clearing.  Hopefully that never happens again.

And to tell you the truth, it took me awhile to even know that Roman was here, not only because it's a different actor (I remember from GH) but he is such a sideline character.  And am I wrong, or is he just oblivious to everything that's going on?  From what I remember, he was the smartest and most level-headed person on the show.  I really didn't like when they switched actors and did the whole John Black back and forth.

[Apprentice79]

Today's show was good except for Wilson.  Their reunion is just poorly written. I want Wilson together, but, not like this.

I loved John and Isabella's scenes today.  Drake has been putting in work and it shows. That line about Marlena being his home was purely Sherry. She knows her creations and always knows to have them act and react in character.   Asshole John of 2013, would have shrugged his shoulders, said it sucks to be Marlena and go about his merry way.  This John will fight for Marlena and go up against anything, anybody who tries to stop him and that includes his baby girl.  The "I have never been more disappointed in you" line was evidence of that..

I loved Eric comforting his baby sister. Brady, Carrie and Sami there reacting to the DNR would have made it perfect. Carrie and Brady would support John, while Sami would stand with Belle and support her decision to show Kayla the DNR.  

Jennifer was awesome and I have something to look forward to on that front. I am still in denial about Stayla..

Edited September 11, 2018 by Apprentice79

[TeeVee329]

Also good?  Jennifer's self-awareness about her and Eric, her dialogue that he cares about her, but that she's not The One.  Good reverberation for some other stuff that's going on and coming up.

[rcc]

I'm not a big fan of Drake's acting but today he was very good. Gotta give him credit.

[RachelKM]

On 9/11/2018 at 10:01 AM, Garnett7 said:

100% the same. There was a time that I loved Sonny. But the writing has done him no favors these past couple years. I can barely stand seeing him on-screen anymore and it has nothing to do with Paul. I am a Paul fan, but that alone is not why Sonny has annoyed me since he came back to town. I don't appreciate how he's treated Paul but I also don't appreciate how he's treated everyone else in Salem.

I don't feel the "great love" of WilSon. The writers having every other character declare them the be all and end all of couples is just talk, show it to me. Make me care. And I don't feel like the writing or the acting has done that. It often feels like Sonny is just fixated on Will and wanting to possess and control him.

 

On 9/11/2018 at 11:24 AM, Chick2Chic said:

This is me. I don't really care about this triangle at all cause I don't really care about any of the pairings - tho some work better than others between the 3 characters - but the writing for it sucks hardcore. It's rushed too. That doesn't make me a bitter stan because I think think Will and Sonny look self-centered nor that I think Paul is getting the bum end of things.

Not everyone who dislikes a story or pairing is a bitter stan. Sometimes that is true and sometimes it's an over-generalization of how something is being received as a way to dismiss it IMO. 

Also, why is Belle so heinous since her return for the wedding? 

I agree with both of these.  At one point I LOVED Sonny and Wilson.  The Guy Wilson period of Wilson was a mess and did a lot of damage to them, but I still liked both of them.  I came to really like Paul and Paulson too.  However, I thought the last two years did a lot of harm to Sonny.  He was a jerk about Titan and came off as an idiot as often as not and even occasionally mean spirited.

I still don't hate Sonny, but I don't love him anymore and both the writing and  Freddie's performance is doing the character no favors.

All that said, and acknowledging I like Horita, I still expected and was cool with Wilson reuniting.  I wasn't thrilled, but I got that it was going to happen.   I just hoped (vainly apparently) that the writing would work to restore them and maybe make them stronger.  My sole complaint about Wilson even when I loved them was that I felt Will's experience was too rushed.  He came out, almost immediately got involved with Sonny and then got married to the first man he really dated.  I always felt that was fertile  ground on which to explore the issues they had before Will "died". I was hoping they'd take the opportunity now.

But no... nothing.  It's all gauzy flashbacks of declarations of love and wedding vows.  And there seems to be almost no conflict for Will.  A week ago he was telling Paul he loved him. Even if he loves Sonny more, it shouldn't be all "Whoops.... Kidding.  I'm 100% Wilson 4Evah!" from Will in the beat of a flashback.

Will getting his memory back shouldn't obliterate everything that happened to him for the last 3 years during his amnesia.  He lived for two years in the closet and then spent the last 10 months falling for Paul.  That should all still be there.  But it's like getting his memory back reset Will to his pre-amnesia self without anything that happened since informing who he is now.  Worse, he's been reset to April 2014 like nothing happened after he and Sonny said "I do."    On another board I likened it to rebooting a computer using a 4 year old backup tape.  It still feels that way to me.

Edited September 15, 2018 by RachelKM

[Silver Raven]

Wasn't Sheila involved in Gabi's beating?  Not personally, but didn't she order it to happen?

Doesn't a DNR require another person to sign it?  Who was the other person?  They could go and ask them if it's valid.

Why would the baby be "gone" if Bonnie went back to prison?  Even if there is no acknowledged father, Bonnie still has a daughter who could take her.

"You are a compassionate, loving person." Uh, Kayla, have you ever met Jennifer?

Lucas called for a guard and none showed up.

Why should Lucas do anything for Bonnie? Take the DNA test, prove he's the father, then take the baby and tell Bonnie to take a hike right back to Statesville.

This is not how they're going to write Lucas out, is it?

The Belle/John scenes were very powerful.

I'm surprised Sonny put a stop to things and not Will.  It should have been the other way around.

[peachmangosteen]

3 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

CS killed it today, I love how he emotes, not too much and never over the top, and probably one of the best male criers I’ve seen in some time. 

I haven't been too impressed with CS lately, but yea, man, he was fantastic today. He's so understated in the best possible way.

2 hours ago, rcc said:

I'm not a big fan of Drake's acting but today he was very good. Gotta give him credit.

Same. I mean, he's not a good actor, we all know it, but he delivered today. Those John/Belle scenes were fucking great!

I pretty much loved everything today. A lot of great stuff. And then there's Will/Sonny lol. 

Edited September 11, 2018 by peachmangosteen

[AnswersWanted]

6 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I haven't been too impressed with CS lately, but yea, man, he was fantastic today. He's so understated in the best possible way.

 

I love when they actually give him something to act about because he always delivers. 

I really hate watching him waste away as the all loving, super supportive boyfriend who blinks adoringly at his partner, like a living statue. 

He really has some good acting chops, why they spend so little time letting him use them is beyond me. 

[BlairP]

I think the DNR stuff is repetitive, but it bugs me more that the storylines ignore the very important exhaustive criteria that are involved - in favor of making it look like people get unplugged every day when their survival is still highly possible. I work in healthcare, and for the chronically and debilitatingly Ill this is a very important decision, not a coin  flip.

[salvame]

I'm so friggin' confused. How the heck old is Bonnie supposed to be? 

GMAFB

[JBC344]

32 minutes ago, salvame said:

I'm so friggin' confused. How the heck old is Bonnie supposed to be? 

GMAFB

Bonnie is about mid 50's I believe. To be fair Marlena was about the same age with her last pregnancy. So there is a precedent on the show. That and the news of Brigette Nielson being pregnant and giving birth in her mid 50's. 

I guess TPTB felt a baby for Bonnie was somehow plausible. 

[AnswersWanted]

2 minutes ago, JBC344 said:

I guess TPTB felt a baby for Bonnie was somehow plausible. 

 

It had to help that the baby is also part doll as shown in half the scenes from today’s episode when both actresses were holding the fake bundle like a blanket covered football ready to spike it. 

I guess having a child at a certain age can lead to all kinds of...differences.

[DaphneCat]

8 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

All of this Advanced Directive talk would be much more effective if we hadn't just seen a similar story line last year when Brady was shot by Xander. It took me a minute to figure out why I wasn't moved by these great performances, and then I remembered the DNR sign that was placed on Brady's door and all of the pointless hooplah over the fact that he was going to die and then the magic of Holly's heartbeat restoring Brady's ailments. God, that was idiotic. Even if this new story is better written, it feels like a rehash already and I'm just not feeling it. There should be some rule that soaps can't do the exact same thing one year after the other just for the sake of keeping things fresh. And we all know they're not going to kill off Marlena.

 

8 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

Not that I think Paul is some saint. I just have to give more sympathy to the person who is now paralyzed. And there too, the show just did this with Theo last year. Again? Is this going to be an annual thing?

This.  We KNOW they won't kill off Marlena and of course they are going to give Paul hope he can walk again.  I'm guessing he's going to go to the same clinic in South Africa that Theo went to if they decide to get rid of him.  I'm just waiting for the BIG, DRAMATIC, moments to be done so they can go back to the day to day lives of the soap opera people - usually much more interesting.  

 

3 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

Why should Lucas do anything for Bonnie? Take the DNA test, prove he's the father, then take the baby and tell Bonnie to take a hike right back to Statesville.

Yes, why couldn't he just say, "OK, if it's mine I'll raise it.  See Ya."

 

6 hours ago, Chick2Chic said:

Also, why is Belle so heinous since her return for the wedding? 

You KNOW if it was Sami trying to say she should follow Marlena's directive Belle would be crying and slapping.

[DisneyBoy]

1 hour ago, AnswersWanted said:

 

It had to help that the baby is also part doll as shown in half the scenes from today’s episode when both actresses were holding the fake bundle like a blanket covered football ready to spike it. 

I guess having a child at a certain age can lead to all kinds of...differences.

I so needed that laugh. Thank you.

[Frozendiva]

I enjoyed CS's acting today. He does deliver. He was also good on Hawaii Five-O. He has a lot of potential - and has been a bit wasted on the show. I expect that there will be room at the same place Theo is at for a nanite or whatever trial. Or some place that has bionic spinal cord technology.

Kayla, Jennifer isn't the nice, confident, plucky woman she was in the past. She is more inclined to be plucky these days and pluck Eric. She is letting him waste time on her. She doesn't appear to have anything going with him - except that he is safe. He will always have feelings for Nicole and they have unfinished business. And eventually she will come around and they will finish the business.

Marlena has a DNR? Of course she and John were just a minute or two from being 'married'. Who knows if the document is even real. I did like John telling Belle/Isabella - her first real name - that he was disappointed with her.

Will and Paul, stop making plans together until both of you deal with Will's relationship with Paul and end it in a respectful manner. Karma is a bitch and if the two of you behave like this, you will both be slapped.

BonBon? This kid came out of nowhere. Lucas is going to run off with the kid? Take Bonnie with him? Unless she can keep her baby with her in prison, he can file for full custody and probably get it.