S05.E04: Slabtown

[Iguessnot]

I think tricking her into MURDERING a person she was trying to help was harming her.  Not to mention that her punishment for that would have been a sound beating, only Noah took it for her.  Or possibly getting murdered, since Dawn doesn't like her.  Dawn is a dangerous bitch, but the doctor is worse, because he pretends to be a friend, but is a sneaky user.

True he set her up. Sensible thing would be for her to watch her back and possibly cut off all contact. But to just knife him? Is she Michael Corleone all the sudden?

Edited November 3, 2014 by Iguessnot

[blueglass]

So even in the Zombie Apocalypse, healthcare costs an arm and a leg.  Good to know.

[MrPissyPuppy]

The thing is that there are plenty of people who would be willing to provide sexual services for food (even if it is guinea pig), shelter and clean clothing in a zombie or other type of apocalypse and there is no need to set up a Rapetown.   So that particular woman in jeopardy trope didn't work for me.  

[LunchBreak]

In real life, many people are manipulated and controlled by a powerful, insane leader, so seeing it on TWD over and over doesn't surprise me.

I'm glad you said this, because at one point I was thinking about a borderline psychotic former boss of mine and find it quite plausible that that he'd worm his way to the top of one of many survivor groups. Like someone mentioned above, I get that the format of jumping from group to group may not suit everyone (or cause them to wish fiery deaths upon the producers), but this is kind of how I'd imagine the country that is still relatively new to this zombie chaos.

If you think about some of the nuts around you now, just imagine them in ZA situation. I'd take my chances with only my husband, two cats, the zombies and as much booze as we could possibly hoard. There are a lot of studies and retrospective thoughts on leaders in general, but a couple posts reminded me of the article that explained why psychopaths make good CEO's. I guess sanity in general is a relative concept, but if were to bet on it, even the few truly sane rulers, CEO's dictators, despots (whatever) are all a tad touched..

As for Beth, I was curious about her whereabouts. I've spent much more time getting to know here than I have Abraham and Eugene, and despite some awkward stares and facial expressions, I want to see her character develop a bit further. She's not the warrior, the mom, or the this or that that show seemed to ascribe to women early on. They lost me with Maggie by having her be almost hilariously untouched by the death and disappearance of a couple close family members. As long as she has Glenn... (Side note - the two of them can take their looks of horror and disdain during the termite massacre and have a seat for a bit.) I really like Michonne, but her character was pretty over the top to me until she started to open at the end of last season and this season.

I'm really hoping next week's show isn't a big disappointment. I'm almost dreading it in the way some people were dreading this one. There's an absurd number of fans right now. No matter how many throw in the towel, they'll never please everyone. I'll just be happy as long as they don't stall out in one place for too long, Rick keeps making decent calls, and Daryl and Carol and Judith make it. They can start a little makeshift family and have a spin-off sit com after TWD ends. That would cause much glee (or teeth gnashing).

Edited November 3, 2014 by LunchBreak

[GaT]

An entire Beth episode, whoopee. I really just don't care about her at all & I find her incredibly boring. This plot is feeling very "been there, done that" to me. First we had Woodbury run by a crazy, then we had Terminus, run by a bunch of crazies, now it's a hospital, run another crazy, somebody needs to think of a new plot.

[Iguessnot]

I'm starting my rewatch and within 5 minutes the actress is being weird. They are rolling the bed into the hallway, she looks to her left with a couple of very jerky movements. As she and the doc roll past Dawn and an Asian cop, she makes the same moves again, only with a few more jerks. Her moves are so unnatural it's all I can focus on. Then the go through the door to dispose of the body. Her arm is and shoulder are a bit elevated as she squeezes through the door. However she keeps her shoulders hunched up for several steps longer than necessary as she does a strange little two-step through the door. Is she a Men in Black alien bug desperately trying to control her human body? I really feel sorry for what the directors have to go through with her.  

[GreyBunny]

The few minutes Keisha Castle-Hughes was more compelling than all of the (wasted) time spent on Emily Kinney.  It's a shame Joan died and Beth is still alive.  Also, love Tyler James Williams.  Noah and Joan were the only compelling characters, the rest were just chewing scenery and making the hour painful.  

[Jordan27]

Oh yay. More bad guys.

And the three stooges apparently get a fucking episode wasted on them.

I hate the writers. Beth is boring , dawn is boring, the stooges are boring. Stick with the compelling characters. Assholes.

Thank you Merle.

[RedheadZombie]

Dawn was actually a really good, very well-played character and I hope we see more of her. Her corruption into aiding and abetting this system after starting out in a well-meaning place seems more interesting and plausible than Gareth's hipster do-gooder to cannibal story.

 

Dawn didn't work for me at all.  The acting was weak, and I don't believe she'd be able to maintain control.  If there hasn't been a coup, it's because no one else wants the job.  She's almost as puny as Beth, and I can't believe she intimidates people by going around dramatically slapping them across the face, like an offended southern belle.  Beth is probably the only character on the show Dawn could get away with slapping.  I suspect Eugene and Gabriel could have fended her off.  Noah sasses her and rolls his eyes.  By far the weakest villain so far.

 

I really liked Noah.  He had good chemistry with Beth and is age appropriate.  If I were Beth, I'd stake my claim on him.  The only part I can say I liked was Beth smiling as Noah escaped.

[LexiconDevilOne]

Their 'escape' was akin to that commercial where they have the choice of getting in the running car or hiding behind the saws, where the killer is...

 

Good God they were LOUD.

 

I hope they don't drag this storyline out...

Edited November 3, 2014 by LexiconDevilOne

[Shimmergloom]

 

I think if you back over history, the sane leaders far, far outnumber the insane ones.

 

I think if you look at a map of the world, you'd see that most countries are run by dictatorships, totalitarian governments and the like.  Democracies and sane leadership are few and far between.  And I think if you look back in time it was and has been worse for most of history.

[Milaxx]

As happy as I am to see Tyler James Williams on my tv screen, I must admit I am concerned that he may upset the black guy quota on this show. I don't want to see Tyreese or even  Gabriel go just yet, but I also don't want see TJW die. If he must die, please let him go in a blaze of glory.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Milaxx

[LunchBreak]

As happy as I am to see Tyler James Williams on my tv screen, I must admit I am concerned that he may upset the black guy quota on this show. I don' want to see Tyreese or even  Gabriel go just yet, but I also don't want see TJW die. If he must dies, please let him go in a blaze of glory.

TAINTED MEAT!!! is how every good character should go!

[Nashville]

So if they have to have an episode featuring only one character, why is it always Beth?

 

Because Beth and anybody else would have you forgetting Beth was around in about five minutes...?

 

Okay, thanks for bringing that up, because was Beth going to kill the doctor? How would that better her situation or anyone else's? It was a wrong, cowardly act of self preservation but he never harmed Beth and tried to protect her. He wasn't the one trying to imprison and/or rape her. I'll have to rewatch, but was she walking towards him with a visible weapon in hand with other people roaming the halls? Real smart.

 

Scamming Beth to kill the oncologist was in no way protecting her.  The doctor set her up to take the fall for killing his competition, which would have resulted in some form of punishment ranging from a beating to serial rape.  The only reason this didn't happen was Noah offering himself up as a sacrificial lamb.

[Pete Martell]

As happy as I am to see Tyler James Williams on my tv screen, I must admit I am concerned that he may upset the black guy quota on this show. I don' want to see Tyreese or even  Gabriel go just yet, but I also don't want see TJW die. If he must dies, please let him go in a blaze of glory.

 

People used to say there was only black man allowed on the show at a time. Now there are three (four when Morgan is around). I don't really think the quota that got so much criticism has been around in recent times. If it was then Tyreese would have died when Bob appeared. 

The thing is that there are plenty of people who would be willing to provide sexual services for food (even if it is guinea pig), shelter and clean clothing in a zombie or other type of apocalypse and there is no need to set up a Rapetown.   So that particular woman in jeopardy trope didn't work for me.  

 

Men like that disgusting creep probably get a kick out of forcing women to have sex. 

[placate]

I don't like Beth, but I have to say, that could've been so much worse. I'm grateful she didn't sing. Noah was adorable and I got slightly sick thinking about how cute a guinea pig farm would be and the fact that killing guinea pigs has to be the worse chore ever.

I know a lot of people are disparaging Abraham's return next week, but I find him oddly attractive...please tell me I'm not the only one.

[Cosmocrush]

Interesting to see that the hospital has enough running water for showering and shaving and laundry.  Wonder how that works.  

That bugged me too but I once worked on a downtown commercial construction project for a state of the art building to house a TV station and leased space for servers.   Anyway, it was five stories above ground and three levels of parking below.  It was earthquake compliant, had it's own water supply via a well and powerful generators.  But it was only designed to be self contained for something like one to three weeks - during a natural disaster.  I'm not sure how it would fare 18 months into a ZA.  This hospital definitely didn't look like a facility with those kinds of resources though. 

 

I think Rick and company need to find a Costco and take a break;  concrete walls, no windows and plenty of supplies.    

Edited November 3, 2014 by Cosmocrush

[PunkyMouse]

Well, on the good side, this episode put me right to sleep. On the bad side it was during the episode. Checking in here to see what I missed and apparently it was just a bunch of stupidity featuring Mary Sue and the Dr. Evil Crew.

[PrincessEnnui]

Beth's character reminds me of the teen girl character from Volcano. In Volcano, that girl's only purpose as a character was to be in danger or look cute. She did that well enough, but she didn't make much of an impression. Its only now I realize that that role was probably written for a child actor (TLJ was no spring chicken, even when he was a spring chicken) and was never modified because either the writer didn't understand teen girls or how they would react in dangerous situations or they just didn't care.

 

Its almost like someone went "We need a teen girl... Shit, I don't know what one is like... I know, singing! ...Yeah, awesome." That why we see her meandering through the plot and almost an after thought to the other characters when she isn't around. It just makes me so angry, why have a character you never use or don't know how to write for?

 

I wasn't bored by this episode, but I can see why people are frustrated by Beth and her actress. I do have to admit the wide eyed stare and the wandering accent and the ticks--annoying.

 

And this bull of character with a wounded leg outruns a full health character needs to stop. She can help him just as well from the front as the rear. No pun intended.

[Nashville]

And this bull of character with a wounded leg outruns a full health character needs to stop. She can help him just as well from the front as the rear. No pun intended.

I don't think the idea was that Noah was outrunning Beth.

I believe the idea was:

1. Beth looks forward and sees the walker mini-horde they'll have to dodge around to get out.
2. Beth looks back and saw how much trouble Noah was having in trying to keep up with her - no way he could enter that pack without getting turned into Zombie Kibbles&Bits in fairly short order.
3. So - Beth goes through the break in the fence and cuts to the side for the express purpose of creating a distraction.
4. While the Mary Kay crew goes after Beth as she does her best rendition of "Annie Get Your Gun", Noah is able to outflank the walkers and make it through the gap in the chained fence.

[Pete Martell]

 

Its almost like someone went "We need a teen girl... Shit, I don't know what one is like... I know, singing! ...Yeah, awesome." That why we see her meandering through the plot and almost an after thought to the other characters when she isn't around. It just makes me so angry, why have a character you never use or don't know how to write for?

 

I tend to think Beth was created because they wanted us to see what the ZA would do to a sweet, naive teenage girl. Not only her reactions, but the reactions of women like Andrea and Lori who were trying to help her, in their own ways, through what they'd learned. I think she was also likely cast as a redshirt. I think she and Carol probably both went into season 3 as redshirts (and Carol was thisclose to being killed off in early season 3).

 

Beth sang a few times in season 3, and it got some good response from fans and some media, but I don't think it's ever been this huge aspect of the character. I know she sang once, briefly, in early season 4, but it's mostly been referenced.

 

So you have a character who is ill-defined (other than her relationship with Hershel), and is just sort of there, but who is one of the very very few younger characters on the show, is played by an attractive actress with some ability (MMV on that one, I realize), and who already has some fans in spite of not having much to do on the show.

 

I haven't agreed with all the decisions (I'm not really that into the Beth/Daryl relationship), but I can see why the show expanded her role. Beth is innocent, but not too innocent. Beth is enough of a blank slate that she can be a viewpoint character for some, just as Rick or Carol or Michonne or whoever else are viewpoint characters for others. Beth can potentially be used to show other sides of characters (the idea with Daryl I guess) or to bring in new characters (Noah). And while I don't think giving her solo episodes always works out that well, I thought it worked OK here. I think they have learned how to strike a balance for the character with hope and a sense of realism intertwined, with a question over which will win out. I also think it's done a little more subtly than when Rick had this story over the years. 

 

I can see why this episode got such a mixed reaction, but I think that when they try, Beth does work as a character, and can have interesting relationships with people. And ideally if she comes back this can happen when she's a part of the group and not just on her own. I think it's the way that she's only really shown if she's the main focus of an episode that causes some of the polarized reactions.

[Nashville]

True he set her up. Sensible thing would be for her to watch her back and possibly cut off all contact. But to just knife him? Is she Michael Corleone all the sudden?

Think it's more along the lines of (a) since they're forcing Beth to stay against her will she's going to F with their status quo at every opportunity, and (b) what better person to F up than the one who's already tried to F you over for his own personal gain?

[Rickster]

Maybe they were trying to keep costs down in the casting department, but where were all the other people who where being saved by this group? I'd expect to see at least a dozen or two running around the hospital doing their "chores". The absence of anyone other than Noah gave it a very surreal vibe.

[kj4ever]

The thing is that there are plenty of people who would be willing to provide sexual services for food (even if it is guinea pig), shelter and clean clothing in a zombie or other type of apocalypse and there is no need to set up a Rapetown.   So that particular woman in jeopardy trope didn't work for me.  

Didn't Sargent Rape say something like "she was supposed to be for me" about Beth?  I got the feeling they picked her up because she is young and pretty.  I also am suspect of the story that she was being attacked and they saved her.  If she got cut across the face during a zombie attack then wouldn't she be doing the whole fever/turning thing?  I think she may have been killing one, and they came along, saw she was hot, and knocked her out.

[kikismom]

The hospital: how in the wordl do they have power? A solar-powered generator? I don't think any other kind of generator would still be online this far along. And they sure aren't drawing power from any defunct power plants, which would be completely broken down by now (thanks, Life After People!). I noticed some panels on the roof, but I thought those had plants on them.

There was a real brief (4 seconds?) shot of a bank of car batteries. They better have many more if they are operating all these appliances and running a cafeteria etc.

Lollipop scene, yep, not too sexual.

When he put it up to her mouth, instead of pressing her lips together she should have opened her mouth and snapped on it and bit it in half. Then he wouldn't find her so enticing.

Didn't Sargent Rape say something like "she was supposed to be for me" about Beth? I got the feeling they picked her up because she is young and pretty. I also am suspect of the story that she was being attacked and they saved her. If she got cut across the face during a zombie attack then wouldn't she be doing the whole fever/turning thing? I think she may have been killing one, and they came along, saw she was hot, and knocked her out.

Because she was grabbed so quickly after running out the funeral home's back door, I would say, IMHO, that she really didn't have time to kill walkers. The walkers all seemed to be pouring in through Daryl's door. I think the white cross car saw a zombie herd invading a building, figured someone must be in there and watched Beth run out. The wound came from them, when they knocked her out to put her in the car.

I still think it is ridiculous they keep going so far, with gasoline so precious, to see if there might be someone hot in the 50 mile radius, because more people means you need more food for one thing, and more risk going on runs, and they had another joke version of a garden on the roof (after 3 years people who have had a tall building from the start have only progressed to a few lousy potted plants?)

I know people say that all these kidnapped captives help with the work, but if you have nothing more important for Noah to do than press your slacks, I'd say you are already overstaffed.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Dougal
Formatting.

[kj4ever]

There was a real brief (4 seconds?) shot of a bank of car batteries. They better have many more if they are operating all these appliances and running a cafeteria etc.

As far as power, if they were in Atlanta and it has cleared somewhat from the Zombies, they would be able to get millions of car batteries and a lot more gas then someone out in the country that just runs into random abandoned cars. Hell just a hospital parking garage could probably sustain them in gas and batteries for a long time.

The water situation is a bit more suspect. Maybe the hospital has a well? I have a well and during last year's snowpocolypse all my neighbors were getting water from me as the local water supply was deemed not safe after a few days.

[SHOgirl]

I am looking forward to Carol, Beth, and the crew taking out those hospital people as they so richly deserve. I just know that Noah is the one with Daryl and will lead everyone to save Beth. However, that means going south towards Atlanta, not north.

I'm pretty sure our crew is south of Atlanta. The actual town of Woodbury is south of the city.

Speaking of the city, it was quite disconcerting seeing my hometown all post- apocalyptic.

To the poster who asked, the CDC is eight or so miles from Grady.

I think the repeated comment about Beth dropping her "r"s has caused me to notice that I also drop my "r"s, even though for the most part my southern accent had turned into one which resembles a Midwestern newscaster. Surely due to all the transplants in Atlanta. And a lot of the other native Georgians I know do it too. It sounds very natural to me.

[pasdetrois]

 

by going around dramatically slapping them across the face, like an offended southern belle.

 

This made me laugh. As did the second time Beth got whacked across the face by the lady cop.

 

In fact, the acting was so horrible all around that I just FFed through much of this episode.

 

When bright-eyed Beth at one point chirped "I still sing!" I moaned "Dear God no not again."

[kikismom]

This made me laugh. As did the second time Beth got whacked across the face by the lady cop.

 

In fact, the acting was so horrible all around that I just FFed through much of this episode.

 

When bright-eyed Beth at one point chirped "I still sing!" I moaned "Dear God no not again."

This.

 

Help me out. I can't remember--- and I would rather go down a razor-blade slide into a kiddie pool of rubbing alcohol than rewatch this episode---did Beth offer up her musical gift in response to being told that newcomers pay their way with what skills they have? If she thinks that a few years into the ZA that what a hospital really needs is a folkie singer's skillz then that just tears it.

Who the hell writes her dialogue?

[pasdetrois]

I think she mentioned her singing when someone was blathering on about despair, or cynicism, and how one cannot lose hope. Or something like that.

[kj4ever]

I think she mentioned her singing when someone was blathering on about despair, or cynicism, and how one cannot lose hope. Or something like that.

The good Doc said something about how people couldn't create art anymore or something like that and she said that she still sings...

[leisawoo]

It was also the most awkward Talking Dead ever that I ended up dozing off on.

[kikismom]

What we learned from last night's episode:

 

     https://twitter.com/RickAndThangs/status/529118444852379648/photo/1

[Ellaria]

Maybe they were trying to keep costs down in the casting department, but where were all the other people who where being saved by this group? I'd expect to see at least a dozen or two running around the hospital doing their "chores". The absence of anyone other than Noah gave it a very surreal vibe.

 

Agree - the entire set-up confused me. I spent too much time trying to figuring out Dawn's game plan. She has the cops (how many minions does she have) take the cross-bearing cars and drive around the countryside (as far as 30-40 miles away) looking for frail women. Then, they bring these women back to the hospital, stitch up their wounds, feed them guinea pig meat and let the male cops rape them. We see one male captive who irons and mops floors. They have water and power and food...somehow. All because Dawn thinks that they will be saved.

 

When the cars are driving around the Atlanta countryside, no one noticed that it is complete devastation everywhere. How many "patients" are in the hospital? How many cops? Who is doing the supply runs and where do they go? Where did the guinea pigs come from? What happens if the doctor dies?

 

I know that Dawn is just another wacko but her plan doesn't appear to be logically sustainable. We saw about seven characters. It seemed like a very small operation...nothing that would outlast a ZA. There was no "community" vibe about it like we see with Woodbury and Terminus. 

 

The story wasn't well-fleshed out. I spent more time trying to second guess what was going on rather than being concerned about Beth. Maybe we will get more details next week. Or maybe Carol will just kill all of them and end this stupid storyline.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Ellaria Sand

[ghoulina]

Is Abraham going to yell the entire episode next week?

 

Dear God, I hope not. That preview left me just as apprehensive as this episode did. One "bad" or boring episode isn't going to ruin my love of this show. Every season has them (*Cough*ArrowontheDoorpost*cough*), but then usually you get something good the next week. But to come off this episode feeling so "meh" and then seeing a bunch of Abraham bellowing next week just makes me a bit nervous for the direction of this show. 

[Ellaria]

But to come off this episode feeling so "meh" and then seeing a bunch of Abraham bellowing next week just makes me a bit nervous for the direction of this show. 

 

On the plus side, it seems that we have been spared his tank top. It looks like Abraham found a plaid shirt.

[nodorothyparker]

Agree - the entire set-up confused me. I spent too much time trying to figuring out Dawn's game plan. She has the cops (how many minions does she have) take the cross-bearing cars and drive around the countryside (as far as 30-40 miles away) looking for frail women. Then, they bring these women back to the hospital, stitch up their wounds, feed them guinea pig meat and let the male cops rape them. We see one male captive who irons and mops floors. They have water and power and food...somehow. All because Dawn thinks that they will be saved.

When the cars are driving around the Atlanta countryside, no one noticed that it is complete devastation everywhere. How many "patients" are in the hospital? How many cops? Who is doing the supply runs and where do they go? Where did the guinea pigs come from? What happens if they doctor dies?

 

I know that Dawn is just another wacko but her plan doesn't appear to be logically sustainable. We saw about seven characters. It seemed like a very small operation...nothing that would outlast a ZA. There was no "community" vibe about it like we see with Woodbury and Terminus.

 

The story wasn't well-fleshed out. I spent more time trying to second guess what was going on rather than being concerned about Beth. Maybe we will get more details next week. Or maybe Carol will just kill all of them and end this stupid storyline.

 

That's really what the problem boils down to, terrible acting aside.  It's like they came up with a germ of an idea "Hey, let's set up another survivor group in a hospital.  What are they doing there?  Um, laundry?" and didn't really flesh it out in any way that made any logical sort of sense.  Apparently, they're going to all this trouble for five or six guards and maybe four patients?  It could have been really interesting, had there actually been any real sense of an entire community there.  Or if they were trying to do something medical there.  Zombie experiments?  Breeding?  Any of the half dozen speculations floated before this episode that turned out to be far more interesting than what they were actually doing.  Show us how they're surviving in the heart of a decimated city where you can't just outrun the walkers into the woods.  There could have been a story there.

 

But no, let's run with another leader whose motivations don't really make any sense other than just wanting to wear a pristine uniform and run around slapping people.  Throw in a mix of spineless henchmen and evil rapey tropes that offer absolutely nothing new.  This might have worked in the first or second season when we haven't already been down this road.  But now we've seen it all done before and by much better actors with fewer plot holes to try to work around.

[fliptopbox]

Seems to me with the 3 plotlines going on it's going to rotate. This week Beth, next week Abraham and the short bus team. After that back to Team Grimes. I kind of wish they wouldn't do that as much as maybe give each plot like 15-20 mins per show. Then it wouldn't feel so tedious.

[kikismom]

As far as power, if they were in Atlanta and it has cleared somewhat from the Zombies, they would be able to get millions of car batteries and a lot more gas then someone out in the country that just runs into random abandoned cars.  Hell just a hospital parking garage could probably sustain them in gas and batteries for a long time.

 

The water situation is a bit more suspect.  Maybe the hospital has a well?  I have a well and during last year's snowpocolypse all my neighbors were getting water from me as the local water supply was deemed not safe after a few days.

If there are millions of car batteries, they are dead batteries...which need to be charged up, which takes power from something else.

They can't have most of the building open for use, but with all the appliances and life support and cooking etc it might be harder than it looks. A 5 kw generator will use 1 gallon to 1 1/2 gallons of gas per hour. They've been there since the start?

Gas is also wanted by eveyone else that's alive. milton didn't even want to run the generators for the lemonade picnic because he needed the power for the "Research"

[Bad Example]

I went into this episode expecting to not like it, given the Beth factor. But I ended up rooting for Beth, much to my surprise. The actress is not phenomenal, but I feel like she sold it - at least enough for me to be rooting for her and wishing all manner of bad endings on the people who abused her. So there. 

 

I went through the same process.  I think it's because as annoying as I can find her, Beth is still "one of us", and I don't want her messed with.  Part of why I'm not looking forward to next week... I know I don't think of Abraham, Rosita, and Eugene that way.  

 

I really liked Noah.  He had good chemistry with Beth and is age appropriate.  If I were Beth, I'd stake my claim on him.  The only part I can say I liked was Beth smiling as Noah escaped.

 

Noah was nice.  I think he and Beth were both just trying to get out of there, and he made it.  I don't think he abandoned her- there was really nothing he could do.

 

Also?  Facing the prospect of Officer Rapey, I did wonder if one of the times Beth sought out Noah she was going to start in with her "I've never..." game.  Better Noah for a first than anyone else there.

 

I'm hoping he's with Daryl and that Carol went in on purpose.  With that scenario in mind, I thought it was a shame they weren't faster.  Noah could have gotten on the short bus since Richmond's on the way to DC, right?  Not that I'd wish Abe & Co on him, but he did want to go home.   

 

-re: the lollipop scene: When he put it up to her mouth, instead of pressing her lips together she should have opened her mouth and snapped on it and bit it in half. Then he wouldn't find her so enticing.

 

 

I was right there with you. 

[ghoulina]

I was positive too.  Don't know why but I was actually looking forward to it.  I was bored and disappointed.  I think ultimately it will be a good story and how they executed it was not that great and made this episode feel like filler.  I think it would have worked much better if they were actively using the rest of the storylines to underscore what was going on here.

 

I totally agree. Beth has never been my favorite character, but I don't detest her and I was actually curious to see what was going on in that hospital. My curiosity was not satisfied. Instead I was left just staring at my screen, like - "dafuq?" Maybe I SHOULD have gone into it prepared to hate it. I agree that it probably would have worked better if they went back and forth between the hospital storyline and another one. Given that the most compelling people in this episode had smaller roles (Joan and Noah), it was just too bland to watch 45 minutes straight of that shit. I'm not putting it all on Beth. I was one who was actually fine with Still last season. For me, it was the entire thing - the confusing and underwhelming plot, the melba toast acting, the monotony of it all. It definitely could have been done better. 

 

What is it with humanity on this show? Is Rick's group the only one who can maintain a modicum of sanity. Everyone else goes off the rails and abuses the other humans around them?

 

You ask a really important question - what would we see more of? Rick-like groups? Or Joe/Gareth/Guv/Dawn type groups and communities? I really don't know, but I wish we'd see our group run across other groups like themselves once in awhile. They don't have to merge, join each other, any of that. It would just be nice to see. When was the last time we saw that? With the Vatos? I really liked that episode. It was so hilarious to see these badass killers all of sudden revealed as gentle giants, caring for the old people that everyone else left behind. When the little, old grandma came out and blew their cover, I was laughing my ass off. And it was a nice storyline. Not everyone is an asshole, some people DO want to help. So Rick gave them some goodies from his magical gun bag and they parted ways with a mutual respect for each other. Could we get a little more of that, please?

 

I enjoy seeing how other people are surviving, whether it's the empty but fully stocked funeral home or the priest in the church or the folks in the hospital, or even the Terminus people.  The aspect of all the different ways people can react to the zombie apocalypse and try to stay alive is part of why I find this show so intriguing.

 

I agree with this, and I haven't minded it in the past. While the 2 Guv-centric episodes last year aren't ones I really rewatch, I did find them interesting at the time. It was kind of nice last season to see how Tara's family survived vs. Joe's group. But there was just something about this setup last night that I was just wasn't digging. It didn't make sense to me, none of the people running it were interesting (even evil/bad people can still be interesting), and I just couldn't get motivated to really care what happened. Maybe it's just because my expectations were SO different from what we got. I'll try to watch it again in a few days and see if I pick up anything different. 

[Caelicola]

I think the main problem I had with the episode really was the acting. I don't mind weird and somewhat absurd, I actually like the trope of introducing new characters and situations in medias res, and I think it  makes sense that the kind of people who would not only survive, but actually thrive in a lawless, unregulated world would be twisted and kind of awful. I would have probably found it more interesting and entertaining than the Governor's episodes last season.

But good lord, the acting. Emily Kinney I found actually decent, nothing earth-shattering, definitely one of the weakest links in the cast at large, but in this instance not my main problem. My main problem were the actors playing Dawn, Gorman and the doctor. Just all-around flat and very, very stereotypical performances, with no nuances or subtleties. Kinney has no nuances either, but those characters could have been compelling and creepy, and instead were boring and, frankly, not that menacing, because, if that makes any sense, I found the menace too overt from the very start. At least Morrissey is a good actor, Audrey Anderson was decent, and even Alanna Masterson, while not a great thespian by any stretch of the imagination, has her moments. Give me ten Governor episodes over this one, even if the story told was a lot more simplistic and less ambitious.

And that is what pisses me off, because this episode had the potential of being interesting, and weird, and unusual, but instead I only found it boring, and most of it is not even Emily Kinney's fault.

Abraham next week! Oh, joy, another actor that so far hasn't shown me any nuance.

[SimoneS]

In real life, many people are manipulated and controlled by a powerful, insane leader, so seeing it on TWD over and over doesn't surprise me.

 

Big fat word!  I would argue that the leaders don't have to be insane, just charismatic. When many people are afraid or are made to feel afraid, they rationalize anything, rationalize any war or attack on their neighbors. In a Zombie Apocalypse, I can see unstable megalomaniacs like Shane, Gareth, Phillip, Dawn, and Joe constantly grabbing the leadership role in surviving groups. They would kill off anyone who opposes them and convince the rest to follow them because they will protect them. 

 

I have been thinking that maybe Daryl and Carol came across Noah who told them about the hospital and Beth. Carol decided to play victim and to get inside the hospital to help Beth escape when the rest of the group comes to the rescue. 

Edited November 3, 2014 by SimoneS

[LuLu123]

pander to your fans enough and you won't have a story of your own, you'll be running from one extreme to another trying to satisfy every pet cause out there.

Which, in my opinion, has ruined more shows and an entire genre than the other.  Fans become way, way too invested/competitive about a couple or a storyline and too many writers and producers write themselves into a corner trying to please those fans.

 

For everyone clamoring for a Daryl/Beth or a Daryl/Carol hookup, there is probably someone else going "oh, hell no".

 

As for the overall "achting" talent on this show, with the exception of Andrew, Norman, Melissa, Danai and Scott Wilson (sniff), I wouldn't consider any of them (past or present) to be members of a Shakespearean troop.  So I will cut Emily a more than a little slack since each of the aforementioned has had some cringe-worthy moments too.

 

The episode itself was something of a clunker but nowhere near some of ish seen during Seasons 2 and 3.

Edited November 3, 2014 by LuLu123

[ghoulina]

The story wasn't well-fleshed out. I spent more time trying to second guess what was going on rather than being concerned about Beth

 

Exactly. I don't hate Beth, I don't want her being a slave that's constantly being pawed at by some creepy cop. But I was just confused as to what exactly was going on with this hospital group, that my brain was more focused on figuring that out (and trying to stay awake) than it was caring if Beth got out of there. 

[Timetoread]

I really tried to give the actress and the character a chance.  Believe me when I say that I did.  I endured (though I skip in my season marathons) the two boring episodes with Daryl.  I blamed PTSD, the writers, bad lighting, Daryl's breath, the extras playing the zombies, the one-eyed dog, and society for the lack of there being anything remotely interesting about Beth.  But now, I just can't anymore.  Emily is not a good actress and this was probably my very least favorite episode of TWD hands down.

 

I am going to skip the critique of the hospital storyline.  Trite and ridiculous.  Nuff said.  But Beth?  Seriously I decided that she must have been raised during Herschel's drunk period because she's such a loser.  How, after 5 years with Rick and Company, where even the little kids can fight their way out of most situations, does she jump back like that because a walker comes to the window?  How, after the death and literal dismemberment (remember that whole thing with your dad's head getting chopped off) that she's witnessed, does she tremble and recoil at some random surgical procedure?  How, after fighting off the Governor's henchmen who came at them with AK's, grenades and tanks, does she get stopped in her tracks by some broad slapping her face?  And seriously, after eating snake with a chaser of moonshine with Daryl, how does she portray even nominal culinary distaste?   Beth is an idiot - not at all a badass, who once again had to wait for someone to save her.  So she landed a couple of headshots - girl grew up on a farm, big whoop.  Hell Carl can do the same.

 

And Emily. I don't wish you any harm.  I'm sure you're a nice person, but dear call the CW and get off my AMC, paid cable, viewing.  I kept thinking that if the same thing happened to Maggie, Sasha or Michonne - the tension would have been much higher, the cop would have lost his penis long before zombie girl could get him, and the hospital would be burning to ground in the rearview mirror of the hotwired vehicle.  Instead we got MumblySue sauntering from room to room and saying nothing except, "I can sing.  I sing."

Edited November 3, 2014 by Timetoread

[RadiantAerynSun]

I found Beth's singing annoying in previous seasons but I don't mind Beth herself. I find all the characters on this show benefit from having episodes where they are part of a small group/pair or on their own. I find the ensemble episodes are the ones that drag for me, maybe because so many of the characters I just don't care about, and seeing them in smaller groups and giving them more individual focus makes me invest in them more.

[Mu Shu]

Thank you Merle.

.

If this a clever attempt at humor it fell as flat as this episode.

[GodsBeloved]

You ask a really important question - what would we see more of? Rick-like groups? Or Joe/Gareth/Guv/Dawn type groups and communities? I really don't know, but I wish we'd see our group run across other groups like themselves once in awhile. They don't have to merge, join each other, any of that. It would just be nice to see. When was the last time we saw that? With the Vatos? I really liked that episode. It was so hilarious to see these badass killers all of sudden revealed as gentle giants, caring for the old people that everyone else left behind. When the little, old grandma came out and blew their cover, I was laughing my ass off. And it was a nice storyline. Not everyone is an asshole, some people DO want to help. So Rick gave them some goodies from his magical gun bag and they parted ways with a mutual respect for each other. Could we get a little more of that, please?

I agree. The core characters/group aren't the only "decent" people running around. They can't be.

 

Oh my! I LOVE when ‎abuelita comes out. I love when she asks Who are these men and then says to Rick Come, come and leads him by the hand to Glen. I RR then scene a few times when I watch that episode.

 

We thought you werer being eaten by dogs man!!

 

LOL

 

I had a feeling we wouldn't see who was with Daryl in this episode. Regarding Carol "going in" on purpose, I'm lost on that one. Why would she go in "naked" like that? Did she meet up with Noah and he told her the set up and she thinks she can take them all down?

[Timetoread]

Give me ten Governor episodes over this one,

 

The problem is that they DID give us ten Governor episodes.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Timetoread