S05.E02: Strangers

[blueglass]

Awww Bob, sneaking off to the woods to cry.  What's eating you?

[The Mighty Peanut]

I was happy to see Daryl reaching out to her, but it's weak sauce compared to how much I hated that plot. And what the hell was up with him dropping the water? Was that supposed to be funny? I found it awkward as hell.

It might be the beginnings of the pics Norman Reedus tweeted

showing Daryl with a grossly infected hand

. Or maybe Carol's shmoopy is just nervous.

Edited October 20, 2014 by The Mighty Peanut

[elizacat]

Well, considering how many problems Bob has right now, it's a good thing Gareth is the leader of a gang of regular cannibals. Instead of a gang of horny Australian midget cannibals.

Otherwise he'd be saying "Put another shrimp on the Bobby!"

Actually that would be another prawn - Aussies don't say shrimp

[leisawoo]

Could Bob and Gareth's familiarity simply be from Bob's captivity at Terminus? IIRC, At the "trough of doom" he let Bob speak, albeit briefly. I think Bob was spouting his love for the Washington crap. Gareth may be referring to that when he talks about the irony of Bob being the one caught. That's why I love this show. It could be big or nothing.

[Caelicola]

Rick is a 13 year old trapped in a man's body, minus the sexuality (...)

Man, I get what you're saying, but that looks so wrong...

 

I didn't mind the slower episode, although it somehow managed to feel rushed at the same time. Like, I get that they need to have conversations, but really, do they all need to happen in the same hour or so? A part of me gets it, they have been separated for a good long while and they finally get to catch up (also, this way there's no need to have them in later episodes), but it did feel a little like they were ticking boxes off a list.

I'm actually glad they didn't drag out the obvious reveal that Gareth and Martin are still alive, I really don't want a Governor redux where they just keep popping up while everyone in the group thinks they're dead and the audience knows without a shadow of a doubt that they aren't and will keep popping up. Also, this way I can hope they're dispatched fairly swiftly, as much as I like the actors, to keep from becoming boring and stale. As of right now, they're creepy and actually scary; keep them around too long and they won't be anymore.

I'm gonna reserve judgement on Father Gabriel until I see more of him; I love love love the actor, but he didn't really get to do much this episode other than look vaguely sketchy and cryptically guilty.

 

I like Tara, I've always liked Tara, and I'm glad she came clean and got fully embraced by the group. I like that she desperately wants to be a badass, and in theory she is, except that she's super clumsy and ends up hurting herself in the silliest ways -I feel that would totally be me- and I liked her talking a big game without being able to back it up, because again, probably that's what I would do, make myself look like a super competent badass even though I've never held a gun and wouldn't know the first thing about it.

I'm not sure whether Carol was getting ready to split or just keeping her options open on the chance she MIGHT need to split; either way, I don't think it's her playing the martyr, it's just that she's been through a hell of a lot, and most of it with a really small group of people. When something completely life-changing happens to you, and you're in the company of very few people (in her case, really, just Tyreese), it can be extremely overwhelming to be thrust back into a bigger group of people, even if you deeply love them. It feels like you've changed, and nobody really knows you anymore, except that one person you've shared the experience with. I get why she would feel stifled and uncomfortable, to the point of planning an escape, and it I don't think it makes her selfish or closed off.

 

All in all, I thought it was a decent episode, with some pacing issues but a good, creepy finish.

My favourite moment would have to be Rick and Judith, if only because that was mainly Andrew Lincoln holding and playing with a baby, and as ambivalent as I can be about Rick, Andrew Lincoln is just lovely.

[Macbeth]

ETA: This has nothing to do with the show, but the baby actress who plays Judith is totally in love with Chad Coleman.  It's pretty adorable.

 

This is great job security for Coleman.  They can't kill his character off - the show gets great baby shots with him.  Even when Rick was playing with Judith - Tyreese was sitting right next to him.  It was like the baby actress was saying - fine I will let Rick hold me, as long as my main man is within reach.

[kj4ever]

Ack! I think you might be right. I found it weird the way Gareth was talking to Bob - it just seemed too familiar and strange, considering that Gareth shouldn't have even known much about Rick's group of people. It seemed too...intimate...knowing...On top of that, they didn't slit his throat, like they did the others who were considered dispensible. So when you wrote this, I was like, YES! Somehow Bob had been in that church before, or knew what happened, etc (Terminus, etc). That's why he was so messed up and all weepy, etc. This show...this show.....

It did seem familiar, but Bob couldn't have been from Terminus.  I doubt he would let his people go there if he knew about them.  It'd be interesting if Gareth was from one of his previous groups where he thought he was the only survivor.  It did seem like he meant much more than "It's ironic because you were one of the guys we were going to kill before the shit went down!"

 

No matter what her reasons were, I don't think Carol can handle what she did, both the Karen and David and Micah and Lizzie.  She lingered on the "Thou shalt not kill" passage a little to long.

 

I'm thinking Father Gabe had something to do with Terminus.  He just so happens to run out of supplies right after Terminus burns?  To much of a coincidence.

[nodorothyparker]

I don't think Carol was remotely acting or feeling martyr-ish. She wasn't the one who brought up all her good deeds or bad deeds, that was Tyreese, Rick, and Daryl. She wasn't asking anyone for forgiveness or cheer and when anyone offered it to her, she passed the gratitude off on someone else. She wasn't looking for sympathy or attention or anything from anyone, she was looking to just keep going and find a way to move forward and forget it.

 

I don't either, or if she was she was doing a piss poor job of it.  Except for the two short scenes with Tyreese and Rick (two conversations that I believe many were insisting needed to happen before they could all move forward) she didn't speak with or interact with anyone at all except Daryl for the rest of the episode and it seemed rather obvious she would rather have not been talking to him either had he not kept pushing the issue.  She quietly slipped out when the rest of the group was laughing and enjoying themselves inside the church, and no one except Daryl even noticed she was gone.  Those aren't the actions of a person who wants to call attention to herself in any way.  She was clearly struggling and wanting to withdraw.

 

People weren't happy when she wasn't showing proper grief or remorse and now that she is they're still not happy.    She can't win.

 

I found Daryl quietly keeping tabs on her very reminiscent of their relationship all the way back in season 2 when she was doing the same for him.   As much as the show may like to kill off characters, I like that they've been around long enough to have that shared history to draw on.  The two of them together and each individually with Rick have some of the longest, richest history on the show and I like when we see snippets of that.

 

I'm starting to feel like the show itself is telling us the search for Beth just isn't that important and by extension Beth herself.  The group is planning to pack up and head to D.C. with nary a thought for what might have happened to her, not even from her own sister.  Had Carol and Daryl not conveniently been outside to see the car with the cross on it drive by, it probably never would have come up again at all.

Edited October 20, 2014 by nodorothyparker

[ghoulina]

Also, what was with Carol parroting Tyrese's line about "I just need to forget it"? Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it seemed odd to me that she repeated his words.

 

She also parroted Daryl in this episode. When he asked if she was okay, she said - "Yup, gotta be". That's the exact same answer Daryl gave her when she asked if HE was okay, once the plague broke out at the prison. 

 

I forgot to mention, so do I. I mean, yeah, I get that she sees it as a connection to her past inhumane behaviour, but really - it was the most efficient and effective weapon in the Apocalypse. Guns run out of bullets. Katana's do not. AND they put the sword-wielder far away from their aggressive target.

 

I think it's the best weapon as well. Every time I take some nerdy apocalypse quiz I pick a sword as my weapon, specifically a katana is offered. Your last sentence is an important one. How many times have we seen Carol knife a walker, only to have it get stuck in their skull and she falls with it, and it becomes a huge cluster? That length could be a life saver. 

[JackONeill]

Bob certainly didn't put his best foot forward.

 

You know, THIS CROWD!  They get pissed when Rick can't make a decision, then they get pissed when he makes a decision and they follow it to tragedy.  But this time he made a decision: "We're going back to kill them all" and everyone's, "Oh, man, Rick, that sounds wacky-doodle.  Let's just keep going and we'll never see those guys again."  Yeah, right.

Edited October 20, 2014 by JackONeill

[Caelicola]

I'm starting to feel like the show itself is telling us the search for Beth just isn't that important and by extension Beth herself.  The group is planning to pack up and head to D.C. with nary a thought for what might have happened to her, not even from her own sister.  Had Carol and Daryl not conveniently been outside to see the car with the cross on it drive by, it probably never would have come up again at all.

I agree with that. I just feel like they've mostly become super pragmatic; I think that's the reason they're joining Abraham, Rosita and Eugene, not necessarily because they believe them, but because it gives them a place to go, something to do other than wander aimlessly through the woods. And for that same practical spirit, going to look for Beth is kind of a waste of time, when she could be anywhere. It's not like she simply walked off on her own, she got taken by a car. Until Daryl and Carol saw that car, she could have conceivably ended up anywhere in the American continent. Mounting an extensive search with limited supplies, no base camp and no idea where to even start looking is just not worth it, and I think Maggie herself prefers to imagine Beth is somewhere safe and surrounded by standup people (yeah, like that ever happens) rather than trudge through the woods for who knows how long, with the very probable outcome of not finding her at all anyway.

[nodorothyparker]

They get pissed when Rick can't make a decision, then they get pissed when he makes a decision and they follow it to tragedy.  But this time: he made a decision: "We're going back to kill them all" and everyone's, "Oh, man, Rick, that sounds wacky-ddodle.  Let's just keep going and we'll never see those guys again."  Yeah, right.

 

Seriously.  Since we can assume most of them will survive this too, the next time any of them dithers about not wanting to go back and finish something I want Rick to simply remind them, "THEY ATE BOB."  No more long drawn out discussion or dragging their feet about it.  That's all the shorthand they should ever need after this.

Edited October 20, 2014 by nodorothyparker

[ghoulina]

would make sense as to how Gareth was talking to him by that fire. He acted as though he and Bob knew each other.

 

My husband said the same thing, and I was confused as to what he was talking about. I re-watched the scene this morning and there is only one line that MIGHT convey prior knowledge. First, when Gareth says, "We didn't want to hurt you...the first time" (or whatever, totally paraphrasing), he clearly meant at the trough. And saying "You can't go back, Bob" - same thing he said to him at the trough. Then he says something about it being "cosmic justice" that is was HIM they stumbled upon. "It could have been anyone. It will be". I wasn't sure if that anyone meant anyone in general - like just random people vs. someone from Bob's group, or if he meant that it was cosmic justice that it was BOB, and not someone else from the group. That's the only part that's sort of questionable and COULD imply prior knowledge, but I still lean towards the first meaning. 

 

I have always speculated, though, that Bob STARTED the outbreak and that's why he would be so secretive and glum. What IS in the box, Bob? Did we ever find out??? But yea, I think while he was in the military he accidentally unleashed something and now he feels all this guilt. Going to Washington makes him happy, because he thinks he will finally be able to set things right. 

 

I know, I'm crazy. 

 

 

But awful things happened and she can't forget it, especially now that things have slowed down enough for her to really think on it, and she seems to feel like she can't be with people, least of all these forgiving and loving people who want her. She was planning on leaving Tyreese and Judith at Terminus also, so I'm not terribly surprised she was thinking about leaving the group. I don't think she knows what to do or what to feel at this point.

 

It might just be as simple as - she is having a really really hard time dealing with what happened in The Grove. Who wouldn't? Yes, they've all had to "do things" (and stuff) at this point....but has anyone had to kill a child, who had just killed her sister? That would traumatize me for life. And perhaps being around everyone from the prison, and especially Tyrese, is reminding her too much of the girls, when she just wants to forget it all. 

 

So what are they having after Bob?

Chicken Tara-yaki?
Pasta Carl-bonara?
Michonne-gna?
Tyreese's Pieces?
Abra Ham?
Hat-tat-touille?

 

Baby Back Rick? 

 

 

I can see it turning into the road trip of awkwardness once Beth joins Daryl and Carol and all shippers will be seething.

 

This is why I've been predicting that one of those girls is gonna die. 

[sigmaforce86]

I don't have a problem with Rick giving the OK to go to D.C. at the party.  From the scenes on the road there were at least two nights between Terminus falling and when they got to the church, Rick had to know the Washington group was going to bring up the need to have the gang take the trip with them because they can't survive just the three of them.  I think he's been mulling it in the back of his mind for at least two days and was pretty much decided - he just wasn't going to volunteer his group, he waited until they asked.

 

Not sure I want Bob to die but since he's one leg down anyway it would have been fun if he had been bit and as soon as a saw what they'd done just said well you guys screwed up, lift up the pants on my other leg and take a look..........said with a huge smug grin on his face to wipe the same smug grin of Garrett's face.  Payoff won't come that quickly but I can wish.  He still could be bit though - the guy in Season 1 (whose name I can't think of), the one who dug the graves at the first camp................He got a pretty deep bite and lasted at least a day before he got a fever and another day or two after that they left him on the road sick but he still hadn't died or turned - seems like they established that how deep and severe the bite is plays into how long before you turn.

That's why the Terminus guys didn't kill Bob right away, I think they know if you die you turn....at Terminus they had basically a meat locker room so they could process the bodies right away.  In the woods with no storage they seem to know they have to keep the person alive or they can't use the "meat".

[GodsBeloved]

Chad Coleman says Ty thought the guy was dead.

 

I don't understand how that's possible. Being dead isn't even enough in the ZA - you have to destroy the brain, so unless Ty caved the dude's skull in, there is no excuse for thinking that the man was totally, fully, not-gonna-come-back dead...

Tyreese may not know that they all are infected.

 

Now that Boardwalk Empire is wrapping up, they just need to get Michael Kenneth Williams to show up, as a badass who blasts walkers away with his handy shotgun.

LOL!!!

 

I can hear it now ... Omar a'comin!! as the walkers take off running LOL

Edited October 20, 2014 by GodsBeloved

[ghoulina]

Tyreese may not know that they all are infected.

 

How could he not? The entire point of why Lizzie killed Mika in The Grove was so they could see her turn, and she could prove her "point". 

[Whimsy]

Has Rick said the line from the Season sneak peek about "These people are my family; if you hurt them I will kill you" yet?

 

Yes, he said that to the priest (is he a priest?  A pastor? Deacon? I am not religious.  I don't know what Episcopal has) this episode.  No spoiler tags necessary!  :)

[GodsBeloved]

I think what's bothering Carol is that it is the first time she can't be straight with Daryl about something...and she can tell he wants to talk about it, he really needs to hear her explain it, and she could either lie to him---which he would detect immediately, or refuse to let him into her confidence which would close down their bond.

She can't be straight with him about what? At this point, I am assuming Darryl would like to hear from her why she murdered Karen and David. Why can't she tell him what she told Rick?

[lulee]

I just think that Carol wants to make sure that everybody knows just how much she's suffering. It's one way to make sure Daryl never leaves her side.

Yep, she sure was obvious with her goals of seeking pity and entrapping Darryl when she slipped out of the church without telling anyone and was about to get into an idling car. That Carol - what a minx!

[peach]

She can't be straight with him about what? At this point, I am assuming Darryl would like to hear from her why she murdered Karen and David. Why can't she tell him what she told Rick?

 

I don't think Darryl needs an explanation about why she did it.  He has her back no matter what.  I think he's just concerned about how SHE is coping with it.

[diebartdie]

 In TWD, there are squirrels and birds galore.  The sun shines while birds chirp happily.   They've grown crops.  There were baskets of nuts in the grove. 

 

Having the termite be alive is  just character assassination, in my opinion.  I re-watched that scene.  Tyreese would have left that man's skull crushed.  It's stupid that he not only survived, but thrived.

 

 

I agree.  Tara has grown on me, and I do like her with Glenn and Maggie.  In fact, I wonder if Tara is gay simply to keep Glenn/Maggie fans from panicking.

 

 

 

If Carol wasn't planning on skipping out, she was definitely keeping that option open.  She seemed unhappy with Tyreese's desire to not tell the group about Mika/Lizzie.  Maybe Carol needs to talk about it.

I pulled these quotes from your post because they are great and I want to expand a  little. I find it incredibly far fetched to think that anyone LIVING in the za would think eating another human being is the way to go. You're surrounded by GHOULS that eat humans, why would you want to be like that and if you did want to be like that, go give one a big ol' hug? Seriously, the hunters are all healthy human being with weapons and extremely cunning brains, they can set traps, track and otherwise enjoy the bounty provided by those lush forests they find themselves in. It makes no sense unless every single hunter is a psychopath but even that doesnt cut it because very very few serial killers work in teams, the majority of them are loners and the hunters are clearly serial killers.

 

I too think Carol was trying to slip away without anyone noticing because I think she is becoming undone with her guilt and having Rick mend fences with her so tenderly was pretty much the last straw for her. As another poster said, I would very happily trade Beth (even 50 Beths singing in perfect farm girl harmony) for Carol. Carol is my very favorite character on this show, I even mostly agree with her decision to exterrminate Karvid, I just think her sloppy handling of it was pure, sloppy plot contrivance.

 

Not only was Martin still alive but that quick glimpse of him we got it didnt look like he even had a bruise on his stupid face! Remember after that beating Rick took he looked like hamburger meat so I dont see how Martin could have looked fine after that smack down Ty laid on him. Seriously though Tyreese knews better than to not expose the brain, even if he killed Martin, without brain exposure or at least a little brain puncturing (see Andrea's killing of various zombies with a one inch letter opener), dead people reanimate.

 

I thought it was funny both TWD and Z Nation killed zombies with mixers this week.

 

Finally, Im a firm believer that most surviving human in the apocolypse would decide they had been given a fresh start and could make up brand new rules for themselves so I dont see why Glenn / Maggie / Tara couldnt be a triad because as yet another poster pointed out, Tara and Maggie have chemestry......far as Im concerned, more chemestry than Maggie and Glenn have ever had (I find the character of lesbo boots [another TWOP reference] annoying beyond the telling of it though) but anyway, all the shmoopy lovey dovey crap is just boring and annoying.

 

Oh I guess that last point wasnt final after all because I gotta say I find it very hard to believe that hypervigilant Rick would sit there and get his drink on like that.

[JackONeill]

Ghoulina, you have an interesting point about Bob.  He's always acted a little odd, even back at the prison, but he was acting really odd this episode.  Crying at the end (BEFORE losing his foot. Ouch!).  He was acting all sheepish and withdrawn, except with Sasha.  I think it's likely he had been at Terminus before, and had helped them kill and eat others.  He knew their secret.  (Of course -- WAIT -- then why would he willingly go back with Maggie and Sasha?)(I'm sooo confused.)

 

Still, there's more to Bob than what we're seeing.  (Well, we won't be seeing that foot anymore.)

[TigerLynx]

Why do all the crazies in Georgia never meet up with each other, but always run into Rick and Co.?  I wish the Governor had run into the cannibal Termites.

[ghoulina]

It makes no sense unless every single hunter is a psychopath but even that doesnt cut it because very very few serial killers work in teams, the majority of them are loners and the hunters are clearly serial killers.

 

Doesn't cannibalism turn you mad? I just wonder if the first time they ate someone it wasn't out of vengeance for what had been done to them? Or desperation - if they'd been holed up a long time and supplies were gone? But then they got a taste for it? Or it drove them so crazy that now they're just all about eating humans all the time?

[bosawks]

Bob certainly didn't put his best foot forward.

 

You know, THIS CROWD!  They get pissed when Rick can't make a decision, then they get pissed when he makes a decision and they follow it to tragedy.  But this time he made a decision: "We're going back to kill them all" and everyone's, "Oh, man, Rick, that sounds wacky-doodle.  Let's just keep going and we'll never see those guys again."  Yeah, right.

 

The thing is we’ll never know what bad result might have resulted from going back to kill the rest.  Maybe nothing but maybe some of our exhausted bleary-eyed crew would’ve stumbled on a group with machine guns waiting for them; maybe Tyreese would’ve become impatient and stumbled upon a walker herd with Judith.  We only know the bad thing that did happen not the bad thing that might have.

I don’t know if leaving was the right choice I’m just not convinced it was the wrong choice.

Admittedly, running and hiding would be my baseline behavior in the Zombie Apocalypse…….and crying.

[GenieinTX]

I really didn't think Rick/the group had a choice about DC.  As long as they are together, does it matter where they are?  It's not like Georgia has been that good to them.  Why not take a chance on DC?  Every safe place they have found has gone to crap.  Might as well hit the road and hope to find some place where you can stay.

[SimoneS]

I actually thought that Bob went out there to kill himself which is why he was crying. I was sure that he got bit from his reaction when Sasha asked if he was alright after getting the walker off him. When he asked her for another kiss and held onto her hand, I figured that was his way of saying goodbye to Sasha. 

 

I think that Morgan is tracking the Termites/hunters. He likely saw them murder and/or eat someone and is intending to take them out. I expect Morgan to save Rick and his people just as the Hunters are about to take them out.

[kj4ever]

I wonder if they pickled Bob's foot if they could use it as Daryl bait?

 

To soon.  I'm still disgusted by that last scene.  It shall go in the archives with the piglet cutting scene of scenes I shall never lay eyes on again.

[Portia]

Has Rick said the line from the Season sneak peek about

"These people are my family; if you hurt them I will kill you"

yet?

He said this line to Father Gabriel in last night's episode.

 

Yes, he said that to the priest (is he a priest?  A pastor? Deacon? I am not religious.  I don't know what Episcopal has) this episode. 

Episcopalian clergymen are called priests. They are allowed to marry, just in case anyone was wondering.

[diebartdie]

Doesn't cannibalism turn you mad?

Well I wouldnt know and as far as Im aware, there have been no long term studies on the effects of being a murderous cannibal on the human psyche but I'd read the dissertation on it if it was published ;) Nah, Im kidding, Id read the wikipedia article on the dissertaion. Or at least skim the wiki.

[Primetimer]

The gang moves forward after meeting a priest, but takes one big step back with new obstacles.

Read the story

[aurora296]

Wow! This thread fills up fast. Just some observations. Bob's leg chunk that Gareth(?) was munching on looked like a piece of grilled salmon. I used to love grilled salmon. Now, not so much. That was nasty!

 

Also, couldn't help thinking, while they were eating their canned goods feast, they are all wearing clothes encrusted with dried up zombie slime in them. Geez! At least take off your shoes and socks, rinse them off and hang 'em up to dry. And their underwear? I'm sure Michonne, who I think was the only woman to go down into the slimy, zombified food banks lower level, is bound to get some kind of yeast infection from hell.

 

At this point in the game, I'd have lost my modesty and been walking around nude while my clothes were sloshed through some dish soap and bleach, rinsed and been hung to dry. Yeah, I know, it's just a TV show. 

 

I knew one of the black dudes would end up dead or in trouble by episode's end. Three black guys now in the group, plus Morgan. In TV law, that's too many. 

[GodsBeloved]

How could he not? The entire point of why Lizzie killed Mika in The Grove was so they could see her turn, and she could prove her "point". 

Was that expressed in front of Tyreese?

[mandolin]

I enjoyed this episode and all the little conversations between characters. The opening of the episode though, with our gang walking and Rick slowly appearing on the screen. I don't know, it just gets me. These are our people! I love them, even when they make bad decisions! And when they work together, they are like a well oiled machine, even when doing stupid things like fighting walkers in water.

 

I do think Bob was bitten.

 

I also hope Michonne gets her katana back. The reach for it and not having it there...ouch. Guns are so unwieldy

 

GodsBeloved, yes, it was. Lizzie said all of that in front of the whole Grove group.

 

I live in Georgia too, and I see Episcopal churches regularly, so I'm good with that.

 

Tyreese's relief at not having to go on the run was almost comedic.

Edited October 20, 2014 by mandolin

[Cheetosandchoc]

Since it was an Episcapel Church the lady could of been his wife since Episcapel priests can marry. He is shady and I think he has some agreement with the Termites.

I wonder if Carol is leaving because she might feel safer on her own? It's easier to hide and move about unnoticed by yourself.

I hope Morgan jumps in and saves them from the termites at the last minute.

[poppy-]

I am just catching up on Season 2 of Hannibal, so this is the 2nd time this week I've seen a man telling another man how delicious he is (with chomping).    The Termites were a lot nicer to Bob than Hannibal was to Eddie Izzard.

Edited October 20, 2014 by poppy-

[beaker73]

I think it is a trap, I wouldn't be surprised if this whole church scenario is a huge setup. Father Gabriel may not even be a priest. People trust priests, and if he had an arrangement with the Termites it'd be easy to believe he sent many a wayward survivor off to their death in exchange for protection. Gareth already stated they had a lot of scouts in the area, so I am sure they were aware of that church and Gabriel. Or one of his former parishoners did it before being eaten.

 

As far as Bob being bit, I don't think it really matters because they've deduced everyone is infected. It just takes dying to turn. So I am not sure that the Termites eating Bob alive will make any difference.

I was wondering about the Bob thing as well.  If they're all infected then it shouldn't matter if Bob got bit, right?

I also agree with you that the church may be a trap.  It struck me that Gabriel is too...I don't know...clean.  I mean, the ZA has been going on for a year and a half now? Even if he was holed up in the church shouldn't he be more disheveled? Dirty? He just looks too put together.  Something doesn't add up.

[diebartdie]

Tyreese didnt need that lesson from Lizzie, he obviously knew well before that due to the illness in the prison.

[GodsBeloved]

I don't think Darryl needs an explanation about why she did it.  He has her back no matter what.  I think he's just concerned about how SHE is coping with it.

I don't think she owes Darryl an explantion either. I was responding to the idea that Carol couldn't be straight with him. If the point being made was she couldn't be straight with Darryl about what she did to Karen and David, I wondered what the big deal was ti simply tell him what she told Rick.

Edited October 20, 2014 by GodsBeloved

[kj4ever]

In other news I wish Daryl would get his balls back soon.

[Timetoread]

I liked this episode.  You need down for up to feel like up.  I always enjoy the fleshing out of interpersonal relationships.  I liked the Rick and Carol regroup.  I did NOT want Rick to apologize to her, just to accept and move forward.  I liked Tara making peace with her guilt for showing up at the prison with Phillip.  I don't believe she did anything to feel guilty for and she lost more than any of them - her sister, niece and girlfriend.  I just can't with Abraham and Co.  Just give them a car and let them go to DC.  If all the zombies either drop to the ground or become sentient and start a book club, then we know they were successful.  Otherwise continue as usual.

 

I'm going to soldier alone and say that I think that I am tired of the "big bad" formula.  I felt such a wave of exhaustion seeing the Termites mockingly dine on Bob.  I don't like them and I don't care.  I'd rather watch an entire episode of Judith feeding Rick than get yet another demented villain to wreak havoc until a drawn out, inevitable end.  But let me insert a digression - Tyrese is a useless punk.  I want him off my screen.

 

I do think however that one of the termites has Michonne's kitana (which deserves it's own credit in the show, next to Carl's hat) and that killing him will get her back her weapon.

 

ETA: My copy paste CUT the end of my post.  So I fixed it.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Timetoread

[tv echo]

Apparently, forgiveness was a huge theme of this episode - Carol forgiving Rick, Rick forgiving Tara, Maggie forgiving Tara, coupled with the introduction of Father Gabriel and the church setting.  Then the episode ends with the return of Gareth, who clearly will never forgive Rick's group and is out for revenge - the show's promo slogan "Hunt or Be Hunted" now takes on real meaning.  And oh, Tyrese, so you didn't kill that guy in the cabin, after all?

 

Father Gabriel seems guilt-ridden and seeking forgiveness - but isn't likely to receive it.  Speculating, he probably hoarded the collected canned foods in the church, locked the chuch, and shut out his parishioners (including that woman with glasses) out of cowardice and fear.  It's strange how clean and new his clothes still look, and how well-fed he himself seems, despite claims of running out of food.

 

I'm glad so many people in the group told Abraham they were going with whatever Rick decided.  I guess Abraham's big speech was supposed to be his 'call to arms' to convince them to go with his trio to Washington, D.C.  But all I could think was - will Rick or someone please press him and Eugene for more details!  Stop just accepting what they say as gospel.  But I like that Rick's decision - right or wrong - seemed based on Abraham's saying there would be food and shelter there, and not on the promise of some magical cure.  I don't think Rick's decision is necessarily wrong.  They can't just wander around in circles in the Atlanta area when there clearly are no more food sources anywhere here.  Going in a direction toward Washington, D.C., at least gives them a goal and some hope - however remote.  If they find a good spot on the way, I think Rick would stop there and not continue to Washington, D.C.  Still, after what happened at the CDC, Woodbury and Sanctuary, they need to be extremely cautious about another promised safe haven.  Please, show, kill off Rosita, Abraham and Eugene.  Don't touch any more originals.

 

The Rick-Carl conversation in the church was interesting, with Rick telling Carl that he can never be safe, while Carl insists that they can still help and trust some people.  That's a complete switching of roles for them from before, when Rick wanted to help and trust people, while Carl wanted to shoot first and ask questions later.

 

Poor Bob was a goner as soon as he and Sasha started being all lovey-dovey together.  Like others have speculated, maybe Bob got bit on the leg that was cut off by Gareth, so Bob will be saved the way Herschel was saved by RIck cutting off Herschel's leg.  (Maybe Bob was part of the group that attacked and raped the people at Terminus?)

 

I'm also hoping that Gareth or one of his gang has Michonne's katana, so that she can get it back in a future episode.

Edited October 20, 2014 by tv echo

[callmebetty]

Awww Bob, sneaking off to the woods to cry. What's eating you?

Ahhh! I see what you're doing there. You're not going to get me to bite.

[lulee]

Tyreese didnt need that lesson from Lizzie, he obviously knew well before that due to the illness in the prison.

Well, Lizzie wasn't the most logical thinker. So her thinking that Tyrese and Carol needed to see Mika turn, doesn't mean that it made rational sense.

[Samx]

I figured this week would be slower and I'm hoping this was a "get it out of the way" episode to tie up all the potential conflicts between the group. My biggest annoyance was the fact that they lit up the church like a damn Christmas tree in the middle of the forest. Not that I begrudge our heroes a little downtime but I felt they let their guard down too much. I was half expecting an ambush (from the Termites or otherwise) because NO ONE was standing guard or minding the perimeter. Felt sloppy.

 

I think Carol gives zero f*cks about Karvid (I don't either) and her "guilt" is solely related to the girls. She knows who she is now and what she's willing to do to survive and she doesn't think Rick and the gang could truly get behind her on stuff like that. It could also be that she knows she's able to survive on her own and she thinks they're all idiots who will only get her killed (she may not be wrong).

 

Also, if they just wrote off Beth without any hint of an explanation, I would be totally fine with it. Someone previously mentioned the chemistry with Tara and Maggie - I thought they might start making out. Wouldn't that be a twist.

[bosawks]

In other news I wish Daryl would get his balls back soon.

 

Apparently Daryl has traded balls for emo-bangs.........

[diebartdie]

Well, Lizzie wasn't the most logical thinker. So her thinking that Tyrese and Carol needed to see Mika turn, doesn't mean that it made rational sense.

Yeah but my point was that a lot of posters here seem to be thinking Tyreese did not realize everyone turns regardless of method of death so he thought everything would be fine if he just killed Martin. Tyreese was very well aware that everyone turns no matter what so he flat out lied to Carol when he said he killed Martin. He's on my shit list now, not worthless but dangerous to have around. Sort of the opposite of the danger Lizzie represented.

[lulee]

Yeah but my point was that a lot of posters here seem to be thinking Tyreese did not realize everyone turns regardless of method of death so he thought everything would be fine if he just killed Martin. Tyreese was very well aware that everyone turns no matter what so he flat out lied to Carol when he said he killed Martin. He's on my shit list now, not worthless but dangerous to have around. Sort of the opposite of the danger Lizzie represented.

Ah, I must have lost part of the string of conversation there. Yes, I agree. His failure to do the necessary thing, even when it's hard, helped cost Bob his leg.

[kaydub]

I wouldn't be shocked if that was a blooper they kept in.

 

 

HA, i actually thought that, when it first happened, and i found myself wondering what the point of it was. that it was a blooper that wasn't suppose to happen, but because norman and melissa stayed in character, they kept rolling and ended up keeping it in.

[GodsBeloved]

Tyrese is a useless punk.

Judith doesn't think so LOL

 

When Judith's little neck was on the line, Tyreese went out without a single weapon and put down multiple walkers. Without Tyreese, Judith would likely have been Walker or Termite chow.

 

Regarding whether Tyreese knows people turn regardless of how they die, if he does know maybe he had the same mindset Rick did when Rick said "let him turn".

 

Rick doesn't get reamed for not killing those Termites "all the way" but Tyreese does (keeping in mind that, according to Chad Coleman, Tyreese thought he killed Martin)?

 

GodsBeloved, yes, it was. Lizzie said all of that in front of the whole Grove group.

 

Thanks mandolin.

Edited October 20, 2014 by GodsBeloved