S05.E02: Strangers

[TexasChic]

Right, but if I remember correctly all other facilities were no longer functioning either, according to the Doc at the CDC in Atlanta?  Now, Eugene is not necessarily talking about a CDC facility, but something similar enough that you'd think our CDB folks would think to say, "How do you know it's still operational?  Did you know the CDC in Atlanta self-destructed after the last man standing there determined there was no hope left on Earth?"

 

Or something.

When Tara and Glen originally met up with them, Abraham said until very recently they had been communicating with DC by satellite phone.

[The Mighty Peanut]

Why is this so funny? I can't stop looking.

http://blog.chron.com/tubular/files/2014/03/shocked-patrick.jpg

[LilySilver]

Upon rewatch, the scene where they first save Father Gabriel is kind of hilarious. They just stare and stare at him while he mumbles on and pukes and acts generally weird. Their faces are all so awesome.

 

 

 

Oh, I noticed this too and giggled at the time. I think Rick even rolled his eyes when Gabriel was puking. Like, "Big deal, fella, a half-dozen walkers at most!"  It definitely served to juxtapose this clean, frightened, helpless man with our capable, fearless, filthy crew.   Gabriel must have looked like an alien, an impossibility, to them.

 

Interesting (if annoying, to me, in my Carl-hate which is completely superficial) to see that it's Carl who insists they run to the rescue, and Carl who sweetly hands Gabriel the nuts.  (I was thinking, "Here's some nuts, since you seem to have lost yours....waaa waaaa waaaaa.")  Certainly they are beginning to show Carl as evolving--even as Gareth justifies his devolution--into something beyond what Rick is currently capable of being.  He seems to be integrating the lessons he's learned yet refusing to let go of what he wants to be in terms of a decent, functioning human being. Without fear of taking risks to do what's right, without regret for the horrible things that they inevitably must do.  Too bad I wish he would get eaten by the nearest walker.  Or at least wash his hair for the love of it.

Edited October 21, 2014 by LilySilver

[TexasChic]

As much as I'd like to think that if I were in our protagonist's situation, I'd want to help people, our group has been burned so many times, it's hard to blame them for wanting to keep to themselves. 

[Raven1707]

 

the guy in Season 1 (whose name I can't think of)

 

That was Jim.

 

 

And he's shown coming outside with Judith before even knowing the group was returning.  So, here are the options in the Tyreese vs. Termite situation:

 

One more option: Tyreese simply looked out one of the two windows facing in that direction, saw the group coming towards him, and left the cabin with Judith safely in his arms.

 

 

you'll burn in hell (not sure of the exact wording)

You'll burn for this.

 

 

Judith feeding Rick. AWWWW.

 

Wasn't that adorable? And then later, Judith leans forward and rests her head on Rick's chest.

 

Oh, and for what it's worth, this episode was written by (or at least credited solely to) Robert Kirkman.

[Dusty]

Carol looked like such a mom to me when she saw the zombie as she was getting ready to (maybe?) take the car.  Like a mom who sees her kid doing something wrong in the park. "Oh for god sake."...then she stabbed it in the head.  They must have very soft skulls.

 

Honestly, and this is mostly superficial but partly because I do play the Telltale Walking Dead game.  But I wish they, mainly Daryl, would cut their hair.  My Lee told Clem to keep her hair short. Excuse me while I go cry in a corner.

[NoWillToResist]

 

Now that Carol's back, it's like he's regressing back to adolescence.  No way on earth that the Daryl Dixon of season 4 would have told Carol to hop in and NOT sent her back to tell the others where he had gone.  Carol's selfishness has rubbed off.

 

I am spectacularly failing at determining where Carol has been selfish this season. Or really, at all in the show...

 

 

I was just thinking about that black car with the white cross and how awfully close it was to Carol. We didn't actually see the car until Daryl saw it speeding off, but considering that the tires screeched before it took off, led me to believe it had been sitting there for awhile, possibly watching Carol? But what would they want with her?

 

Well, as our outed Termites can attest, there are always unpleasant fates awaiting ladies. Maybe these people troll the backroads, looking for womenfolk to grab. Maybe Carol would have been next but they booted out of there when they saw the dude who was with the LAST chick they abducted.... :)

 

I also cannot believe that anyone believes that if such a sooper seekrit bunker exists in Washington, that (A) Eugene has access to it and/or (B) it hasn't been raided/looted by now. But, I guess it's a goal to work towards rather than just endless days of roaming....

Edited October 21, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[kikismom]

I felt bad that I started getting a hankering for some beef short ribs.

It's terrible but I was thinking jeez that looks kinda good is Sonny's drive-thru open all night?

 

 

I don't know why Maggie didn't see Judith and think/say..."Wait--if she was alive when given up for dead...maybe there's a chance Beth is still out there!"

[ParadoxLost]

I was just really happy they didn't feed Bob's meat to him before he realized his leg was gone.

[LilySilver]

Well, it does seem like Maggie would have had a brief follow-up conversation with Daryl and Glen at least, and perhaps Rick once they had escaped Terminus and were discussing their next move.  And I find it perhaps more out-of -character that Rick would not check in with Maggie and Daryl as to what their feeling was as to the odds of finding Beth, and whether they understood his decision not to pursue her.  Instead there was just no decision at all.  

[Pete Martell]

moving to another thread

Edited October 21, 2014 by Pete Martell

[Madding crowd]

I really wish a huge herd of walkers would come upon Gareth and his group and it would be a meta feast, cannibals being eaten by other cannibals. Seriously, there is no justification at all for cannibalism at this point. There should be plenty of canned goods, protein powders, critters, seafood, nuts, seeds, etc to exist for awhile. And if the Termites could find a way to scavenge all of their meat processing stuff, they could go on runs for food.

 

I will be disappointed if Father Gabriel is on the up and up. First off, how would be keep his clothes so ironed and cleaned? Even if he had a few spares, they would wrinkle and be dirty in a hot church after a year. I also don't think he could keep a mob of people (even a small mob) out of the church if they wanted in. Rick and Co have never had a problem getting into any building.

 

I still think Bob was bit, he didn't seem like he was crying with joy and he looked sad when he kissed Sasha goodbye. I do wish he could somehow cause some sickness to the people eating him. I think there are a lot of limitations built into the notion that everyone is infected. For one thing, it takes away a lot of the fear factor from the walkers; you don't have to worry at all about being scratched, spit on or even a small bite.

You only have to worry about fatal bites. Second, it is taking too much away from the main premise of the show which is the humans versus walkers, and instead its humans versus humans. I get it that the humans are the walking dead, but lets face it, we started watching because of the walkers.

 

I want Beth found because Im very curious as to who the people in the hearse are and if they are connected somehow to Father Gabriel. I also liked her vibe with Daryl.

[cal]

 

 

And he's shown coming outside with Judith before even knowing the group was returning.  So, here are the options in the Tyreese vs. Termite situation:

One more option: Tyreese simply looked out one of the two windows facing in that direction, saw the group coming towards him, and left the cabin with Judith safely in his arms.

 

I'm not saying that's not possible, but it looked to me that Tyreese was exiting the cabin just as the group was coming over the rise.  I don't know that he would have been able to see them beforehand.  Also, he was carrying everything with him.  It wasn't like he saw them coming up and ran outside with Judith to meet them, it looked more like he had packed all his shit and was leaving and the group just happened to show up at that moment.  Otherwise, why carry your bag out with you?

[RedheadZombie]

I know the exact moment I started caring for Bob as a character.  I had been very suspicious of him - alcoholic, possibly shifty, always the last person alive in his group, endangering my Tyreese due to the OBMO (one black man only) rule.  It was a brief scene of Bob before he came to the group.  He was barricaded with a walker inches away.  It was the look on his face.  It wasn't hopelessness, or defeat, or even absence of feeling.  It wasn't that he was tempting fate and hoping the walker would get him.  I don't know that I can say what he felt, but the actor emoted something and it moved me.  Top that of with fighting along side Sasha and Maggie in the fog, and then acceptance by the always suspicious Sasha - poor Bob.  I can handle a lot of gore and horror, but torture is a big turn off.  I don't know if I'll make it through an extended meal of Bob.  I may have to FF for the first time.

 

I thought the show came close to crossing the line last season with a (physically) healthy child being euthanized.  I think humans eating Bob's leg and telling him about it is close to that line.  Even the film, The Road, didn't quite go that far.  They also cut out a scene from the book that had a human baby on a spit roasting over a fire.

[kikismom]

I really wish a huge herd of walkers would come upon Gareth and his group and it would be a meta feast, cannibals being eaten by other cannibals. Seriously, there is no justification at all for cannibalism at this point. There should be plenty of canned goods, protein powders, critters, seafood, nuts, seeds, etc to exist for awhile. And if the Termites could find a way to scavenge all of their meat processing stuff, they could go on runs for food.

 

I will be disappointed if Father Gabriel is on the up and up. First off, how would be keep his clothes so ironed and cleaned? Even if he had a few spares, they would wrinkle and be dirty in a hot church after a year. I also don't think he could keep a mob of people (even a small mob) out of the church if they wanted in. Rick and Co have never had a problem getting into any building.

 

I still think Bob was bit, he didn't seem like he was crying with joy and he looked sad when he kissed Sasha goodbye. I do wish he could somehow cause some sickness to the people eating him. I think there are a lot of limitations built into the notion that everyone is infected. For one thing, it takes away a lot of the fear factor from the walkers; you don't have to worry at all about being scratched, spit on or even a small bite.

You only have to worry about fatal bites. Second, it is taking too much away from the main premise of the show which is the humans versus walkers, and instead its humans versus humans. I get it that the humans are the walking dead, but lets face it, we started watching because of the walkers.

 

I want Beth found because Im very curious as to who the people in the hearse are and if they are connected somehow to Father Gabriel. I also liked her vibe with Daryl.

  I hope you will understand that we all debate on this site, and it is not personal if we disagree. I don't insist I'm right, I only have my opinion, but I will express it by objective points and it is not any ad hominem attack.

 

1.)  No, there really shouldn't be plenty. Even if the ZA has killed 90% of the human race, there would still be 30-32 million living people in America. There is no more commercial farming, canning etc. Bare subsistence level to just stay alive would be one or 2 pounds of food per day. In one day, that means 31 million pounds, more than 15,000 tons needed per day. With no more production, what was made up till the last day of Life Before Zombies is pretty much wiped.

 

Now think of this idea many other people have expressed about wild game. A deer seems like a great score just for our group. A Georgia deer might be 120 pounds,and say 85 is actual edible meat. Say a dozen people ( it fluctuates doesn't it, I'm not counting Judith) it would last a week except it won't because there is no cold storage. Gobble before it rots. Nuts and seeds come once a year. The lake in season 4 was explained as dead with no more fish...I would expect many more are toxic with the dead effluvia running into it. Seafood means the sea and that's a whole other complication that's not as easy as it sounds. Protein powders? It's been 3 years. Those aren't made in massive quantities because they have a short shelf life. Frankly, Judith's formula would have lost vitamins and nutrients after the first year.

 

So many people think it should be a "nature's bounty". Many Native American tribes starved. Many whites starved in years before commercial food production, transport, cold storage and warehouse storage. And they didn't have a tenth of the people we have today.

 

2.) Being infected with the virus that makes you turn hasn't taken away any fear of being scratched or bitten. That causes death by bacterial infection. The group are always checking each other for scratches. All bites are fatal bites.

 

3.) It isn't taking away from the premise of the show as defined by Kirkman. He said that it could have been nuclear war, natural disaster, it just happened to be walkers...the real foundation of the story is how do people survive not just pragmatically, but are morals/ethics an integral part of human identity, or just a luxury we quickly discard when the going gets tough.

[Madding crowd]

Well, I have to disagree too. Everything about the show from the advertisements, contests, polls etc is about the walkers. The show is taken from the graphic novels and they are not about natural disasters or nuclear wars, they are about walkers.

 

I didn't say protein powder or other foods wouldn't be past the expiration date (although I am a life long vegetarian and most of the powder I have has a long shelf life such as five years), but it is still something to eat. 

 

And so far in the series, Rick and his gang have managed to find food without eating each other. Would this last forever, no, but  at this point there is food. Gareth also stated they are eating people for revenge, not because there are no other food sources.

 

We have not seen any evidence that the humans are still concerned about anything regarding scratches or saliva. And if everyone is infected, why would a bite kill you unless it caused you to bleed out, go into shock or do something a normal animal bite would do? 

Edited October 21, 2014 by Madding crowd

[cynic]

The first half of this episode really annoyed me. It felt (to me) like they were going overboard with the Carol propping and apologizing. It didn't feel organic, more like the writers were trying to get whatever segment of the audience to let go of FluGate and love her again.

In other news - Damn it Tyrese! You had one job.

As for the end...poor Bob. How hellish for him. I was really starting to like him too.

ETA: I don't miss Beth either. That I forgot to mention her when I first posted probably says a lot.

Edited October 21, 2014 by cynic

[GaT]

The problem for me is the lack of pain, the lack of concern. I understand that Maggie could think that Beth didn't make it out of the prison. And I could understand now that she could feel that trying to find her is pointless because there is no way to know where she went. I get that. The problem is the absolute lack of pain or frustration or worry or whatever. When Daryl told her she was alive but taken by random people, her first reaction imo should've been trying to find her, even if the others had to talk her out of it.

 

Not even addressing it is what bothers me because it makes it seem like they don't give a shit, when they are supposed to.

 

Beth, Hershel's daughter/Maggie's sister/Judith's nanny/Glenn's sister in law being missing apparently is no big deal to everyone except Daryl.

I think she's just numb & is in survival mode. There's only so much the brain can process & I think she's hit her limit. After everything that happened at the prison, then spending all that time trying to find Glenn, then finding out Terminus wasn't the sanctuary she thought it would be, she just doesn't have anything left to deal with Beth, never mind the fact that even if she did, what could she do?

 

I don't care about Beth at all.  I mean, at all.  Not even a little bit.  If we never see her again, I'm fine with it because the cast is too crowded now with better actors and actresses.

 

But all the season previews and all signs point to the search for Beth being a recurring story this year.  If neither her sister or none of the people she's lived with since the farm can be bothered to show any interest in what happened to her, why should I as a viewer be expected to?  I get the pragmatism that some posters have mentioned in thinking that she may be dead and they wouldn't know where to begin to look.  But say that then instead of telegraphing by sheer omission that the character and her story don't matter and then still letting it eat valuable show time that could be spent on more interesting characters and stories.  This is just reeking of Andrea at Woodbury all over again.

Agreed. I don't think Beth added anything to the story, & I found her character more annoying than interesting. The show won't be losing anything if she stays gone.

 

Well as everyone knows, I like Beth well enough but I do not want this season to turn into "The Search for Sophia Pt2: Where the eff is Beth"

 

I couldn't have said it better myself :-) If that's what this season is going to be all about, it's going to be a very boring season.

[AngelaHunter]

That causes death by bacterial infection. The group are always checking each other for scratches. All bites are fatal bites

 

Exactly. It's like the bite of a Komodo dragon. The bite doesn't kill you, but the resulting massive infection does.

 

As for choosing cannibalism - it's so much easier to catch and kill people than it is animals. All livestock has been eaten by this time (by humans and zombies) I would assume and large wild animals have also probably been decimated by the zombie herds. Birds, fish and small mammals are still around but are not so easy to get.

[paigow]

So the moral is to stay at least one step ahead - or you might lose a foot?

Damn Termites, give them an inch - they take 12.

[NurseGiGi]

For me, TWD has always been about seeing how people would respond to such a catastrophic event.  That's why I'm attracted to post apocalyptic fiction and  it makes me think about what sort of person I would be.  I know that in case of a ZA I would be deader than dead on my own.  I would have to depend on a group who might value me for my nursing skills.

 

I've been expecting them to run out of items they could scavenge because anything worth having would already be gone.  And don't get me started on their continued  ability to still find gas.

 

Anyway, excellent post kikismom.  Hey, if they shoot a deer they could possibly get some tips from the termites on curing meat.  I'm sure they would be happy to oblige.

 

Oh, I just have to add that I'm watching "What about Bob?" on my tv.

Edited October 21, 2014 by NurseGiGi

[GreyBunny]

It was also Shane who kept the ENTIRE group together in check, a group that included Merle, before Rick even got there. It was Shane who beat Ed to a pulp for victimizing the worlds biggest victim, Carol, and let it be known that he would not tolerate the menfolk acting a fool with the women folk.  It was Shane who saved Rick's raggedy ass family in the first place AND saved Rick.  Shane wasn't this indiscriminate killer that people have built him up to be - he wasn't the Governor.  He wasn't a Termite.  He killed Otis (who shot Carl), Randall (from the marauding band of rapists) and attempted to kill Rick (and I believe he was far gone by this point from grief and jealousy) - but he never harmed ANYONE in their group and went through it all WITH them, not against them.   I don't have enough time to count up Rick's body count, including Shane. "I killed my best friend for you people!"  "I killed Shane because he was undermining my authority."  Whatever.  Rick's no freakin Saint and Shane wasn't Satan's little brother.  Both are/were flawed.  Both made good and bad decisions.  Both did the best they could.  And both had HORRIBLE taste in women (looking at you Lori).  I see why they were best friends - two sides of the same coin. 

 

Shane tried to rape Lori at the CDC.  He unnecessarily hobbled Otis and left him to die.  (Otis shooting Carl was an accident, Carl or at the very least Rick should have known not to try to pet a deer when there could be people with guns in the woods hunting for food.)  Shane lured Rick away from camp in an attempt to murder him.  Shane started out as a brave and decent guy who thought he was getting stuff done but he devolved into a rabid dog that needed to be put down.  I get that sometimes you have to do horrible things to survive but Shane went too far.  Like Phillip and the Termites, he ended up as an example of what not to do. 

- 

 

The idea of a running gag with a car with a cross doing drive-bys to pluck things out of Daryl's hands gives me the giggles.  But it looked like a different car than the first one; it's less boxy.  Is there a fleet of cars with crosses randomly doing peel-outs for the heck of it?  I don't think Bob has a previous connection to the Termites but I think Gabriel has a connection with whomever is doing the drive-bys.  Sorta like Watership Down, these mystery people let Gabriel have his little church in exchange for him helping them procure people (women) for their own purposes.  

Edited October 21, 2014 by GreyBunny

[Emily Thrace]

  I hope you will understand that we all debate on this site, and it is not personal if we disagree. I don't insist I'm right, I only have my opinion, but I will express it by objective points and it is not any ad hominem attack.

 

1.)  No, there really shouldn't be plenty. Even if the ZA has killed 90% of the human race, there would still be 30-32 million living people in America. There is no more commercial farming, canning etc. Bare subsistence level to just stay alive would be one or 2 pounds of food per day. In one day, that means 31 million pounds, more than 15,000 tons needed per day. With no more production, what was made up till the last day of Life Before Zombies is pretty much wiped.

 

Now think of this idea many other people have expressed about wild game. A deer seems like a great score just for our group. A Georgia deer might be 120 pounds,and say 85 is actual edible meat. Say a dozen people ( it fluctuates doesn't it, I'm not counting Judith) it would last a week except it won't because there is no cold storage. Gobble before it rots. Nuts and seeds come once a year. The lake in season 4 was explained as dead with no more fish...I would expect many more are toxic with the dead effluvia running into it. Seafood means the sea and that's a whole other complication that's not as easy as it sounds. Protein powders? It's been 3 years. Those aren't made in massive quantities because they have a short shelf life. Frankly, Judith's formula would have lost vitamins and nutrients after the first year.

 

So many people think it should be a "nature's bounty". Many Native American tribes starved. Many whites starved in years before commercial food production, transport, cold storage and warehouse storage. And they didn't have a tenth of the people we have today.

 

2.) Being infected with the virus that makes you turn hasn't taken away any fear of being scratched or bitten. That causes death by bacterial infection. The group are always checking each other for scratches. All bites are fatal bites.

 

3.) It isn't taking away from the premise of the show as defined by Kirkman. He said that it could have been nuclear war, natural disaster, it just happened to be walkers...the real foundation of the story is how do people survive not just pragmatically, but are morals/ethics an integral part of human identity, or just a luxury we quickly discard when the going gets tough.

 

Actually a more accurate statment would be "Many Native American's farmed". Pre-contact natvie Americans who lived in the south-east grew the "Seven Sisters" and had complex society that rivaled the Aztec's in sophistication. Sorry but the starving nomad's huddled in the woods idea  is seriously inaccurate and bug's me almost as much as Carol did this episode (I'm Native). To get it back on topic of the show living off the land isn't is simple as walkling into the woods and picking berries. Its really easy to make yourself sick if you don't what your doing. Given what we know about Gareth I'd say he doesn't know much about the outdoors. I wouldn't bet on his buddies doing so either. The other issue is that in Georgia a lot of the the native plants would be choked out by urban sprawl or farmland weed killer. A lot of the land around Atlanta would have been farms that wouldn't really have edible crops (wheat, oats cotton etc.)and wouldn't have replanted themselves.

 

Personally I think the canabalism isn't just about food for the Termites its about conquering other people. Like a lot of historic canabils they believe eating people makes them stronger. I'm not sure sure if the writers realize this but Comunion is actually a form of ritualistic canalalism. The purpose of communion is to unify a group and share in a central power. Its the same idea behind a lot actual canabalism ceremonies.  It just uses wafer's in place of body part's. Comunion is of course entirely ritual but a couple of anthropolgists have suggested its based on older much less symbolic rite. Not that I'm trying to critcize comunion its actually one of the parts of church I truly like.(I enjoy ritual and the comunal aspects of it)  I just find the parallel of CDB drinking communion wine while the termites dine on Bob deeply ironic.

 

I am spectacularly failing at determining where Carol has been selfish this season. Or really, at all in the show...

 

Carol isn't so much selfish as self centered. Like this episode when everyone else was wndering about DC or focused about survival she was worried about what people thought of her. Or when she insisted Mika learned to hunt so she could be reassured that she wouldn't lose her. Or when she killed Karen and David regardless of how anyone else would feel about it. Or when she stopped Daryl from going out to find  her Sophia because it was what she needed. Carol has trouble seeing beyond her own feelings a lot of the time it seems. She can do empathy but I think its harder for her than most. Carol still has a lot of anxiety and control issues I tihnk she feels she has to care of things herself or no one else will. I think Carol believes that everyone thinks their feeling are the most important and wil take care fo themselves so she might as well do the same. I think the idea that Rick and people like actually does think about other before themselves would be news to her.

[CarpeDiem54]

Having to wait until Monday to watch and coming here to read 400+ brilliant posts may kill me. ;-)

Anyhoo, I can't stand the three stooges. At least Hootchie Girl Rosita didn't really talk much. Mainly rolled her eyes and looked like a douchebag.

When Abraham of the D Cup Man Boobs stood up to talk I yelled, "STFU and go find some more mecuricrome (sp?) To dip your head in!"

And Mullet Man sounds so idiotic I want to mute him, but I'm afraid I'll miss out on what our merry band of travelers are agreeing to. I was hoping someone would plop down next to him, press a gun to his head and say, "What you talkin' 'bout, Willis?"

And why don't I ever learn (I'm as bad as Camp Dinner Bell)? I was eating pizza and almost hurled during the Bob-A-Q.

[PrincessEnnui]

I have to admit, I don't care about Beth. She doesn't irritate me, but she doesn't make an impression either. However, Maggie's lack of concern for her does her no favor in my eyes. I already hate Maggie, but her inability to mention the one other person in her family still alive... Just no. I don't see myself ever liking Maggie because of this. Ugh.

Edited October 21, 2014 by PrincessEnnui

[CarpeDiem54]

Yeah, Maggie's total lack of concern about Beth bugs me. And I don't even like Beth. But you'd think her sister would raise a ruckus and would try to at least discuss the possibility of looking for her.

[PunkyMouse]

In terms of wildlife to be hunted, let's not forget that the walkers will eat any creature that is alive, so the supply would not be as abundant as you might think.

[Nashville]

You only have to worry about fatal bites.

We have not seen any evidence that the humans are still concerned about anything regarding scratches or saliva. And if everyone is infected, why would a bite kill you unless it caused you to bleed out, go into shock or do something a normal animal bite would do?

At what point did bites stop turning people? I'm sure Herschel would've LOVED to have caught this news bulletin before his leg got hacked off.

In any event, at this point it's really immaterial whether (a) the bite itself introduces a zombie-viral infection which turns you, or (b) simply introduces a massive bacterial infection which kills you - AFTER which you turn. The end result is Yet Another Rambling Shambling Brainsucker either way. Kind of like arguing which is better, cutting your throat or slicing your wrists. Either way, the result is the same - a dead body on the floor, and a helluva mess for the housekeeper.

[natyxg]

We have not seen any evidence that the humans are still concerned about anything regarding scratches or saliva. And if everyone is infected, why would a bite kill you unless it caused you to bleed out, go into shock or do something a normal animal bite would do? 

 

Everyone was infected from the very beginning, yet getting bit killed Jim, Morgan's wife, etc.  Also, Carol was going to cut off Lizzy's dad's arm because he was bit, but then realized he was bit in the neck, too. That was last season, which was... how long ago was that supposed to have happened? A couple of months maybe?

[Seawolff]

Everyone was infected from the very beginning, yet getting bit killed Jim, Morgan's wife, etc.  Also, Carol was going to cut off Lizzy's dad's arm because he was bit, but then realized he was bit in the neck, too. That was last season, which was... how long ago was that supposed to have happened? A couple of months maybe?

The illness at the prison which led to Lizzie's dad being bitten has occurred within the last two weeks of the timeline as far as I can tell.

Adds a little perspective on Lizzie's turmoil, and on Carol's. It's all so this week. Lizzie's dad was dead just over a few weeks before his daughters joined him. All the Carol decision making controversy is very fresh.

I really loved the water jug incident. If it was a blooper, I can see why they kept the take. It was so real. Also real was her tone of voice when she said "I don't know" in answer to Daryl's question. She really was admitting that she didn't know if she was making the right choice and was open to being given some direction from Daryl. Haha, then he bashes out the tail lights and yells "get in the car!"

[kikismom]

Well, I have to disagree too. Everything about the show from the advertisements, contests, polls etc is about the walkers. The show is taken from the graphic novels and they are not about natural disasters or nuclear wars, they are about walkers.

 

 

We have not seen any evidence that the humans are still concerned about anything regarding scratches or saliva. And if everyone is infected, why would a bite kill you unless it caused you to bleed out, go into shock or do something a normal animal bite would do?

 

 

 

Actually a more accurate statment would be "Many Native American's farmed". Pre-contact natvie Americans who lived in the south-east grew the "Seven Sisters" and had complex society that rivaled the Aztec's in sophistication. Sorry but the starving nomad's huddled in the woods idea  is seriously inaccurate and bug's me almost as much as Carol did this episode (I'm Native).

 

Everything about the show from advertisements is about what the marketing dept thinks., and it seemed to me most of the polls and contests were about the characters not the walkers. The creator of the Walking Dead focused on people and said the threat could have been about other things mentioned already. I trust him for the premise of the show, but YMMV.

 

If everyone is infected that doesn't provide immunity from bacteria; a human corpse is a giant petri dish of microbial flora and fauna (not to mention bits of woodchuck caught between the teeth! ;-D)  No one dies from the viral infection or they'd all have died instantly. That is what changes your brain's ability to have some limited activity after you die. 

Even right now, a human bite is worse than many animal bites; it is treated as such at emergency rooms. That's just septic from a living person, from a corpse bite I wouldn't want to see what's on that slide.

 

I didn't think I implied that Native Americans were starving huddled masses in the woods; I am aware that in some regions they farmed. and many of their societies were very sophisticated. But white people farmed, and huddled masses or not, many of them starved as well. Many regions of the African and Asian continent are primarily agricultural societies and have been for years; and they are not strangers to starvation and famines.For that matter, as the UK population increases so does their reliance on constantly imported food---the saying is that they are always 3 weeks from starvation.

Starving does not stop being a possible danger because of the choice of agriculture, or by intelligence, or by high culture.

Starving is not an insult, it is a tragedy, and it is an equal opportunity tragedy.

[Nashville]

No one dies from the viral infection or they'd all have died instantly.

Not necessarily true. IRL a virus can lay dormant in an infected host for years before something switches it "on". One stellar example is HIV; a host can carry the infection for a decade or more before it triggers into full-blown AIDS. So in terms of the show's reality, there's no reason why the Z virus might not have the capacity to lie dormant in a human host for the host's entire lifetime.

Get chomped by a hungry undead critter, however, and you're liable to get dosed with a viral load that's already active as hell. That could change things a mite.

[kikismom]

Not necessarily true. IRL a virus can lay dormant in an infected host for years before something switches it "on". One stellar example is HIV; a host can carry the infection for a decade or more before it triggers into full-blown AIDS. So in terms of the show's reality, there's no reason why the Z virus might not have the capacity to lie dormant in a human host for the host's entire lifetime.

Get chomped by a hungry undead critter, however, and you're liable to get dosed with a viral load that's already active as hell. That could change things a mite.

 The walker virus that makes you turn does lie dormant in people before dying switches in "on", right?

I like the idea that the virus could change and somehow activate while someone was alive and well, but I think Kirkman et al. have addressed the difference back when Winnebago Jim hit the skids.

Knowing this show,however,  things could change and if the ratings ever drop instead of rise, they may keep that option open for pepping things up a bit! Personally I'm hoping for a shift to other species, to see people being hunted by squirrels and deer and squealing pigs.

[mandolin]

Everything about the show from advertisements is about what the marketing dept thinks., and it seemed to me most of the polls and contests were about the characters not the walkers. The creator of the Walking Dead focused on people and said the threat could have been about other things mentioned already. I trust him for the premise of the show, but YMMV.

Yep, remember the "Something Human" awards push?

[Anela]

I have to admit, I don't care about Beth. She doesn't irritate me, but she doesn't make an impression either. However, Maggie's lack of concern for her does her no favor in my eyes. I already hate Maggie, but her inability to mention the one other person in her family still alive... Just no. I don't see myself ever liking Maggie because of this. Ugh.

 

 

Yeah, Maggie's total lack of concern about Beth bugs me. And I don't even like Beth. But you'd think her sister would raise a ruckus and would try to at least discuss the possibility of looking for her.

Yes. You'd think she would want to see the funeral home, maybe scope it out and see if anyone visits, or watch for the car - once they've recovered a little from what just happened to them.

[kj4ever]

The funeral home was obviously set up as a trap, and I think that car was a trap too.  How many running vehicles with gas and the keys are just sitting around at this point?  I bet Carol was being watched and they took off when Daryl showed up.

One interesting thing about this episode - Remember how Mary told Carol about their tormentors and how not only did they rape and torture, but they laughed at them.  Gareth learned well, because that's exactly what he did to Bob.  No, he is not eating to survive, he is a full blown monster.  I'm guessing that's why the crazy ex-tormentor kept repeating "We are the same" when they let him out of the box car.  God only knows what they did to him.

[ghoulina]

I think the CDC is Atlanta, a different place from where Eugene & co. is proposing they go.

 

Right. But when Jenner said "there's nothing left", I assume he meant the entire government, all governments, any sort of infrastructure. 

[ghoulina]

Oh, and for what it's worth, this episode was written by (or at least credited solely to) Robert Kirkman.

 

I noticed that on rewatch. Explains why I found so much of the dialogue incredibly awkward. 

[CarpeDiem54]

And how does Mr Mullet know that the clowns he was talking to on his satellite phone aren't just part of a bigger and badder Terminus trying to lure people in? We are talking about DC here - not the most ethical bunch pre-ZA.

[ghoulina]

Oh, I noticed this too and giggled at the time. I think Rick even rolled his eyes when Gabriel was puking. Like, "Big deal, fella, a half-dozen walkers at most!"

 

Rosita definitely made a face. Like - "Who IS this guy?"

 

And, I have to say, he had a lot of nerve asking CDB for food. You have been living in your church, chowing down on canned food this entire time - and you have the NERVE to ask a large group of people, who are clearly living on the road, if THEY have food??? It didn't stand out the first time, but when I rewatched last night I wanted to smack him. 

[mandolin]

I kind of think he was just nervously filling in empty space. They were all just staring, so he was all, "uh, food?" Yeah, that's a safe thing to say. :P 

[The Mighty Peanut]

That's a possibility.  Bob might have been crying because he was so happy.  After all the lonliness and illness, he's sober, he's got a family and he's in love.  They survived Terminus and now they're having a feast to celebrate surviving and their upcoming trip to DC.  Life's pretty good for Bob and he's a sensitive guy.  I can't believe that he got bit and wouldn't tell anyone because he'd be endangering everyone including Sasha.

I thought when he asked Sasha to kiss him one more time he knew it would be the LAST TIME, and the crying was his way of lamenting being bit/scratched just when he was in love and sober, the gang was reunited, and a cure was in sight. I thought he went into the woods to die.

I am not disagreeing with you mightysparrow; I just think it's interesting how open to interpretation this show can be.

[fliptopbox]

And how does Mr Mullet know that the clowns he was talking to on his satellite phone aren't just part of a bigger and badder Terminus trying to lure people in? We are talking about DC here - not the most ethical bunch pre-ZA.

Have we determined (by seeing it) that Eugene and Abe are actually talking to anyone in DC? They can all corroborate each other but til it's seen or overheard, til then it's bullshit. And it's pretty easy to fake a phone call. Walk away and talk to yourself. I still call the DC trip as a waste except for the good it could do to get them out of the Atlanta area.

Edited October 21, 2014 by fliptopbox

[Anela]

The funeral home was obviously set up as a trap, and I think that car was a trap too.  How many running vehicles with gas and the keys are just sitting around at this point?  I bet Carol was being watched and they took off when Daryl showed up.

One interesting thing about this episode - Remember how Mary told Carol about their tormentors and how not only did they rape and torture, but they laughed at them.  Gareth learned well, because that's exactly what he did to Bob.  No, he is not eating to survive, he is a full blown monster.  I'm guessing that's why the crazy ex-tormentor kept repeating "We are the same" when they let him out of the box car.  God only knows what they did to him.

I know. It was the only lead they had at the time, though, so it would make sense to watch from a distance, if they wanted clues as to finding those people. Wouldn't they have to restock those shelves with something? It was both the shelter and the food that kept Beth and Daryl from leaving.

 

Maybe the writers just don't care, because they know she'll show up.

[mightysparrow]

Actually a more accurate statment would be "Many Native American's farmed". Pre-contact natvie Americans who lived in the south-east grew the "Seven Sisters" and had complex society that rivaled the Aztec's in sophistication. Sorry but the starving nomad's huddled in the woods idea  is seriously inaccurate and bug's me almost as much as Carol did this episode (I'm Native). To get it back on topic of the show living off the land isn't is simple as walkling into the woods and picking berries. Its really easy to make yourself sick if you don't what your doing. Given what we know about Gareth I'd say he doesn't know much about the outdoors. I wouldn't bet on his buddies doing so either. The other issue is that in Georgia a lot of the the native plants would be choked out by urban sprawl or farmland weed killer. A lot of the land around Atlanta would have been farms that wouldn't really have edible crops (wheat, oats cotton etc.)and wouldn't have replanted themselves.

 

Personally I think the canabalism isn't just about food for the Termites its about conquering other people. Like a lot of historic canabils they believe eating people makes them stronger. I'm not sure sure if the writers realize this but Comunion is actually a form of ritualistic canalalism. The purpose of communion is to unify a group and share in a central power. Its the same idea behind a lot actual canabalism ceremonies.  It just uses wafer's in place of body part's. Comunion is of course entirely ritual but a couple of anthropolgists have suggested its based on older much less symbolic rite. Not that I'm trying to critcize comunion its actually one of the parts of church I truly like.(I enjoy ritual and the comunal aspects of it)  I just find the parallel of CDB drinking communion wine while the termites dine on Bob deeply ironic.

 

 

Carol isn't so much selfish as self centered. Like this episode when everyone else was wndering about DC or focused about survival she was worried about what people thought of her. Or when she insisted Mika learned to hunt so she could be reassured that she wouldn't lose her. Or when she killed Karen and David regardless of how anyone else would feel about it. Or when she stopped Daryl from going out to find  her Sophia because it was what she needed. Carol has trouble seeing beyond her own feelings a lot of the time it seems. She can do empathy but I think its harder for her than most. Carol still has a lot of anxiety and control issues I tihnk she feels she has to care of things herself or no one else will. I think Carol believes that everyone thinks their feeling are the most important and wil take care fo themselves so she might as well do the same. I think the idea that Rick and people like actually does think about other before themselves would be news to her.

 

This is a great comment.  Thank you very much.  I also thought about the connection of communion and eathing human flesh.  I agree that the Hunters don't eat human flesh to survive.  It's about power and domination. 

 

And I agree 1000% with your theory about Carol. 

[mightysparrow]

I thought when he asked Sasha to kiss him one more time he knew it would be the LAST TIME, and the crying was his way of lamenting being bit/scratched just when he was in love and sober, the gang was reunited, and a cure was in sight. I thought he went into the woods to die.

I am not disagreeing with you mightysparrow; I just think it's interesting how open to interpretation this show can be.

 

You're probably right.  I just so wanted Bob's last free moment to be a happy one.  I really loved him and he was so in love with Sasha, it was just lovely to watch.  Poor Bob.

[AngelaHunter]

Anyhoo, I can't stand the three stooges. At least Hootchie Girl Rosita didn't really talk much. Mainly rolled her eyes and looked like a douchebag.

When Abraham of the D Cup Man Boobs stood up to talk I yelled, "STFU and go find some more mecuricrome (sp?) To dip your head in!"

And Mullet Man sounds so idiotic I want to mute him, but I'm afraid I'll miss out on what our merry band of travelers are agreeing to. I was hoping someone would plop down next to him, press a gun to his head and say, "What you talkin' 'bout, Willis?"

And why don't I ever learn (I'm as bad as Camp Dinner Bell)? I was eating pizza and almost hurled during the Bob-A-Q

 

I had to quote your entire post because I agree with every single word. When someone asked Mullet Man a question in the church I ws thinking, "Oh shit - WHY did you do that?" knowing we were in for more of the most ridiculous drivel ever. Like you, I reached for the FF button, but had to stay my hand. This show is only 40-odd minutes as it is and I hate to make it even shorter.

 

I'm afraid the "Bob-eque" just seemed outlandish to me and not horrific, kind of like when Hannibal Lecter fed Ray Liotta's own brains to him. The only thing that made me want to hurl was Abraham's Inspirational Speech.

[JackONeill]

Forgive me if someone's already mentioned this.  Wouldn't you think Daryl would have asked Gabriel if he knew anything about a black car with a white cross on it.  I mean, the man IS A PRIEST, for god's sake!!!  And they seem to be in the same part of Georgia where the abduction took place.  I guess Daryl's too infatuated by seeing Carol again, he's totally forgotten about Beth.  Which makes how he acts at the end so . . . unusual.  "That's Beth.  Let's go.  Let's go.  Hi yo, Silver!"

 

Speaking of being in the same general spot in Georgia -- these people may have traveled miles, but they've gotten NOWHERE.

 

Personally, I think Tyrese is worthless.  But I guess that means he'll get redeemed soon.  Or dead.

Edited October 21, 2014 by JackONeill

[Wouldofshouldof]

Personally I think the canabalism isn't just about food for the Termites its about conquering other people. Like a lot of historic canabils they believe eating people makes them stronger. I'm not sure sure if the writers realize this but Comunion is actually a form of ritualistic canalalism. The purpose of communion is to unify a group and share in a central power. Its the same idea behind a lot actual canabalism ceremonies. It just uses wafer's in place of body part's. Comunion is of course entirely ritual but a couple of anthropolgists have suggested its based on older much less symbolic rite. Not that I'm trying to critcize comunion its actually one of the parts of church I truly like.(I enjoy ritual and the comunal aspects of it) I just find the parallel of CDB drinking communion wine while the termites dine on Bob deeply ironic.

That's why the quote in the church was so appropriate. Paraphrasing, it said something like "He who eats from my flesh and drinks of my blood shall have eternal life."

[Madding crowd]

I don't believe for a minute that the show would be just as popular if it were about a natural disaster and there were no walkers. There have been many shows about survivors, TWD, is unusual because of the mix of humans and the danger of both the walkers and fellow humans. And as long as I continue to see Rick and his group finding food, I don't believe cannibalism is the only option.