S05.E30: Finale Special: Check-Up with Dr. Drew — Part 2

[CentralTexas]

Kail said Isaac didn't come home from Jo's with any bad habits...was she expecting him to come home smoking? Tatted up? With a criminal record??

Maybe Kail and Javi should save up some cash for an actual baby sitter, they never get time alone, my heart breaks for them, not!

[lovesnark]

Oh, I agree about the isolating thing, but didn't want to pin 100% of it on that unless it looked like there was no other reason for Jenelle and him to figuratively (this time, anyway) slap Barbara AND Jace in the face by choosing to live so far away.  And actually, if they did it to be closer to his daughter, that's still a huge insult to Jace, and possibly an even more personal one. 

 

 

 

I kind of thought that, too, but I can't find anything one way or the other.  Imagine...information about a reality TV participant (I won't even call that cretin a "personality") that isn't readily available by just browsing some tweets.  What is the world coming to?

Here's an article from 2013 that says his ex girlfriend's parents have custody of his daughter. Wonder if they live in the same town? His ex has drug problems, too. Guess he definitely has a type.

 

http://dailyentertainmentnews.com/tv/allison-stevens-jenelle-evans-bf-nathan-griffins-ex-girlfriend/

[Cosmocrush]

Is Dr drew a real doctor? They need to replace him and get a real psychologist or therapist to host. Heck maybe even dr Phil or even iylana

Unlike Dr. Phil, Drew is an M.D; a board certified internist and addiction specialist.  But his media career started by talking to teens and young people on Loveline - a call in radio show that started in the 80s where callers could ask medical and/or relationship questions which were often sexual in nature.  It ran until at least the early 2000s.   At least in the beginning it was a  good show - I used to listen to it often.  Maybe the TM producers were listeners back in the day, lol? 

 

Eww why was Sad Panda all over Barb at the end? Creepy!

That was weird and even Barb seemed mystified by it. 

Edited October 16, 2014 by Cosmocrush

[fliptopbox]

Here's an article from 2013 that says his ex girlfriend's parents have custody of his daughter. Wonder if they live in the same town? His ex has drug problems, too. Guess he definitely has a type.

 

http://dailyentertainmentnews.com/tv/allison-stevens-jenelle-evans-bf-nathan-griffins-ex-girlfriend/

They kept calling him Nathan Griffin. I thought his last name was Griffith. Way to go, Daily Entertainment News. Maybe a Google of his ex, Allison Stevens would produce more info. But who knows. Nathan also seems like that kind of guy who badmouths his exes to the end of the earth no matter what happend to their relationship. I've dated a couple of those, and I have no doubt that I was called those horrible names by him even when I did nothing to deserve it. Jenelle on the other hand.....well she's certainly no innocent victim.....but she may not deserve his wrath either.

Edited October 16, 2014 by fliptopbox

[SPLAIN]

From what I recall reading, Nipples' ex-girlfriend's parents have custody of his daughter.

 

Some have commented that nothing was said by Dr. Drew about the racial comments. But, something caught my attention last night when Jo responded to Dr. Drew about the racial comments. As soon as Jo made his comment, which I think was something about wanting to clear the air with Kail about her comments and making sure those are not her real feelings, for a millisecond that the camera was on Jo, you could hear Dr. Drew start to say what sounded like "Noooo" as if he might have been saying "Noooo, I don't think that is what Kail really feels."  However, the fancy editing that MTV likes to do, the scene was cut and suddenly the camera was showing Dr. Drew and he was saying something totally different. You could even hear how bad that splice was done. You'd have to watch that moment again to see what I am referring to.

 

I think MTV edited out a chunk there where Dr. Drew may have defended Kail *barf* and she went on and on defending herself, to the point that the editors had to eliminate that scene altogether in order to squeeze this reunion into one hour.

Edited October 16, 2014 by SPLAIN

[FlowerofCarnage]

I finally got a chance to watch the catch up special. Oh, the schadenfreude I felt at watching labia lips choke back the tears over his frustration with Kail. Kail grabbed his head and shook it around like she was trying to rip it off, on national TV and told him...flat out that she wouldn't marry him if he didn't join the Air Force. Sorry, dude, but you brought it on yourself!

 

Jo and Vee and back together, BTW.

 

Jenelle summed up nicely in a meme!

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByoRiUXCYAAg1sz.jpg:large

 

I hate to be mean,but Addie is just not a cute baby!

[Mkay]

I think little Javi might have said the thing about NO BABYSITTERS out of anger. He had to sound like "big, tough, manly - man protector of my son"...although when Dr. Drew said he was shaking he was so pissed off, I think he was actually shaking out of fear of the SMASH!

I haven't finished reading the whole thread but he did say they tried a baby sitter once and she called them and said Lincoln was crying non stop so they had to turn around and come home.  

 

I also read Jo and Vee are back together. They got back together after the show. (This was first the first week of Sept) That isn't confirmed but that's what I was reading last night.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Mkay

[SPLAIN]

Yes, Loveline was on MTV with Dr. Drew and Adam Corolla. If you google it and see the images, you will see Dr. Drew sporting a different hairstyle back then. I guess because he had more to work with than he does now.

 

LMAO at that Jenelle meme.

 

Nope, I don't like Baby Adderall's looks either. Nothing cute there. Leah's evil twin is just evil looking. Goggles is the only one I find appealing and cute.

Edited October 17, 2014 by SPLAIN

[Darknight]

So in typical Sad Panda fashion, he celebrates Janelle and calls no one out on their shit. What about Janelle abusing the dogs? What about Kail with her irrational plan to ruin Jo's six week visitation by wanting him to go on vacation with them? Manipulation, pure and simple.

Kail - It's clear that Javi has had it. Kail is a bitch. I know she had a crappy childhood, has abandonment issues and a fucked up mom. Sad Panda should be encouraging her to get counseling for her issues, because otherwise, she is going to end up as a single mom to two kids. Especially since she recognizes that she lashed out when she is stressed. And to deal with Suzi. Jo gets wider everytime I see him. The people I felt the worst for in that whole situation were Isaac and Vee.

Janelle - there are no words for this crazy bitch. Why Sad Panda didn't call those two assholes out is beyond me. Why doesn't Janelle move closer to Barb? That would solve the school issue and help with the transition. Nathan and Janelle are unemployed and I don't buy for one second that Janelle is "in school". Nope, Nathan despises Barb, because she has the control over Jace that he wants and she calls both of them out on their shit. Rageboy can't stand that. So nathan and Janelle are playing the consummate Disneyland dad by taking Jace to entertainment venues while they have him then spending the rest of the time asking him if he wants to live with them. Pure manipulation. Newsflash to Janelle, as soon at the MTV money stops flowing, Nathan is long gone. I really hope MTV is paying Barb as much as if not more than Janelle. She is Jace's mom, not Janelle. Why would he call Janelle mom? She has never been one to him.

I have mommy issues has well. But shit Kali is a bitch. No excuses for her behavior. I hope and pray Barbara never ever gives us custody. Non court is going to allow Jenelle to have custody especially when MTV has evidence.

I finally got a chance to watch the catch up special. Oh, the schadenfreude I felt at watching labia lips choke back the tears over his frustration with Kail. Kail grabbed his head and shook it around like she was trying to rip it off, on national TV and told him...flat out that she wouldn't marry him if he didn't join the Air Force. Sorry, dude, but you brought it on yourself!

Jo and Vee and back together, BTW.

Jenelle summed up nicely in a meme!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByoRiUXCYAAg1sz.jpg:large

I hate to be mean,but Addie is just not a cute baby!

That Jenelle meme is so true. How can you cry over a man before your kid??

[Mkay]

Before reading everyone else's comments…

 

Fuck you, Dr. Drew. Javi is allowed to be pissed off. Kail's "I'm telling you know. So I'm sorry," was said in tone that just makes me crazy. It's as if the person that caused the anger is now pissed that the other person is mad. They don't have the resources to hire a sitter so they can go out alone? Seriously?

 

Javi looks at the end of his rope. At 22. How sad. It won't get better as long as Kail's attitude is "I don't know why I push him away. It's a bad habit." Okay, then. Obviously she plans to do nothing to try and change that so Javi can look forward to a life of misery and walking on eggshells in his own house so the hulk doesn't appear and knock him upside his head.

 

 

 

I'm barfing here about Nathan's Mr. Military persona, all the while looking like the time bomb he is. His eyes scream anger. All the time. He is so full of shit with regard to his drunkenness. LOL. So Nathan is a strong fatherly figure. A guy who ran out on his other kid. Here we go again with "He's an angel when he's with me, but Satanic when with you" business. Please.

 

 

YES!!!

From what I recall reading, Nipples' ex-girlfriend's parents have custody of his daughter.

 

Some have commented that nothing was said by Dr. Drew about the racial comments. But, something caught my attention last night when Jo responded to Dr. Drew about the racial comments. As soon as Jo made his comment, which I think was something about wanting to clear the air with Kail about her comments and making sure those are not her real feelings, for a millisecond that the camera was on Jo, you could hear Dr. Drew start to say what sounded like "Noooo" as if he might have been saying "Noooo, I don't think that is what Kail really feels."  However, the fancy editing that MTV likes to do, the scene was cut and suddenly the camera was showing Dr. Drew and he was saying something totally different. You could even hear how bad that splice was done. You'd have to watch that moment again to see what I am referring to.

 

I think MTV edited out a chunk there where Dr. Drew may have defended Kail *barf* and she went on and on defending herself, to the point that the editors had to eliminate that scene altogether in order to squeeze this reunion into one hour.

Yes! I saw this too.   It was quick, but I like to watch for that kind of stuff.  I just didn't know how to explain it very well.  

Yes, Loveline was on MTV with Dr. Drew and Adam Corolla. If you google it and see the images, you will see Dr. Drew sporting a different hairstyle back then. I guess because he had more to work with than he does now.

 

LMAO at that Jenelle meme.

 

Nope, I don't like Baby Adderall's looks either. Nothing cute there. Leah's evil twin is just evil looking. Goggles is the only one I find appealing and cute.

I remember that show on MTV, too.

 

Where is Baby Adderall's hair?!

[shoovenbooty]

I hate to be mean,but Addie is just not a cute baby!

I am mean too, because I think Adderall looks like Leah's sister (whose name escapes me at the moment), who got Mama Dawn's looks, who got her looks from Madam Mim in that Disney movie, The Sword in the Stone.

[meisje]

That Jenelle meme tells more about her journey than what the 16&Preg/TM producers have managed in the past 5 years. Please, someone give them a Daytime Emmy or whatever a meme-maker is eligible for!

 

I don't understand why Nathan and Janelle have to live an hour away from Barb and Jace.  Neither one of them have jobs and Janelle's classes are online.  IF they really wanted to be part of Jace's life they could live near him and his school and if a transition back to Janelle ever really happened, it wouldn't be so traumatic.  It sounds like Barb found a good school for Jace - which could make a huge difference in that kid's future.

I think living at least an hour away is all about Nathan trying to isolate Janelle and custody of Jace is about sticking it to Barb.  When Nathan said he wanted Jace to live with them because Jace needs a 'male role model' and he didn't like some of the behaviors he saw in Jace, chills went down my spine.

 

And in the literally immeasurable amount of time that has been devoted to Jenelle's "struggle" to "get custody" and Nathan's pronouncements, I can't recall even once hearing her say, "I love Jace and want him to live with me." I've been listening to her tell anyone within reach of her bed, for years, about how it's time to get him back, and endlessly how she deserves to have him back, and how Barbara has to give him back... and that Nathan wants to discipline him, Nathan wants him there, Nathan doesn't want him with Barbara, etc..... but never a word or facial expression about loving Jace. 5+ years of cameras everywhere at all times, and nothing. He's a possession for the taking and nothing more as far as they are concerned.

 

If they take Jace out of a school he likes, is excelling in socially and which is offering a level of education otherwise totally unavailable where they live, I will start a petition and auto-call CPS.

 

Well, considering Jo dresses Isaac like a thug all the time, clearly Kail was worried he'd come and start participating in drive-by shootings.

/sarcasm

 

In one of his souped up PowerWheelz Escalades, right? Cos that's what all thugged out kindergarteners drive nowadays.

 

Let's all hope Kail never taxes her brain binge-watching Breaking Bad because she will get so amped up she'll pull a Kool-Aid man and leaves a Kail-sized hole in the side of that lovely Delawarean home!

Edited October 17, 2014 by meisje

[NikSac]

Don't Javi and Kail have any friends? When my kids were young, we used to swap babysitting with other couples with young kids. One Saturday night, I'd watch their kids and another Saturday they would watch ours. The best part was that it was cost free and we felt comfortable that some who knew our kids was watching them. Plus all the kids had a blast being together. When my kids got a little older, we used to have the kids spend the night at one and other's house. That way no one had to worry about rushing home and the kids thought it was a great big slumber party. God these people lack creativity. 

 

They probably did have friends, before they moved so far away from everyone. I bet there are still people around them who wouldn't mind a babysitting swap though, if Javi will tolerate it.

[lovesnark]

That Jenelle meme tells more about her journey than what the 16&Preg/TM producers have managed in the past 5 years. Please, someone give them a Daytime Emmy or whatever a meme-maker is eligible for!

 

 

And in the literally immeasurable amount of time that has been devoted to Jenelle's "struggle" to "get custody" and Nathan's pronouncements, I can't recall even once hearing her say, "I love Jace and want him to live with me." I've been listening to her tell anyone within reach of her bed, for years, about how it's time to get him back, and endlessly how she deserves to have him back, and how Barbara has to give him back... and that Nathan wants to discipline him, Nathan wants him there, Nathan doesn't want him with Barbara, etc..... but never a word or facial expression about loving Jace. 5+ years of cameras everywhere at all times, and nothing. He's a possession for the taking and nothing more as far as they are concerned.

 

If they take Jace out of a school he likes, is excelling in socially and which is offering a level of education otherwise totally unavailable where they live, I will start a petition and auto-call CPS.

 

Let's all hope Kail never taxes her brain binge-watching Breaking Bad because she will get so amped up she'll pull a Kool-Aid man and leaves a Kail-sized hole in the side of that lovely Delawarean home!

Extremely well said and so  true. If I could like this post 1000 times, I would. I honestly believe if Nipples wasn't around goading her to  try to get custody back, she would only see him when she went over to Barb's for something. If she lived alone, she'd be laying in bed 24/7 looking online for the next guy to declare his undying love for her and fighting with all the jellus haterz on Twitter and Facebook.  If Barb called her to see if Jace could come over so Barb could have some time to herself, she'd be too fucking exhausted to deal with him. 

[NikSac]

From what I recall reading, Nipples' ex-girlfriend's parents have custody of his daughter.

 

Some have commented that nothing was said by Dr. Drew about the racial comments. But, something caught my attention last night when Jo responded to Dr. Drew about the racial comments. As soon as Jo made his comment, which I think was something about wanting to clear the air with Kail about her comments and making sure those are not her real feelings, for a millisecond that the camera was on Jo, you could hear Dr. Drew start to say what sounded like "Noooo" as if he might have been saying "Noooo, I don't think that is what Kail really feels."  However, the fancy editing that MTV likes to do, the scene was cut and suddenly the camera was showing Dr. Drew and he was saying something totally different. You could even hear how bad that splice was done. You'd have to watch that moment again to see what I am referring to.

 

I think MTV edited out a chunk there where Dr. Drew may have defended Kail *barf* and she went on and on defending herself, to the point that the editors had to eliminate that scene altogether in order to squeeze this reunion into one hour.

 

Shoot, I deleted it and don't know how to watch it again but I do remember there being a really odd-seeming cut right there. I was thinking they were going to go back to the story and they just kind of didn't. Kail looked pissed though. I'm surprised she didn't just storm out and refuse to talk about it (again) so maybe he did get her to say more than she intended.

[Mkay]

She probably did storm off and only agreed to come back if it didn't air, because she was just sooooo frustrated!  

[Brooklynista]

They probably did have friends, before they moved so far away from everyone. I bet there are still people around them who wouldn't mind a babysitting swap though, if Javi will tolerate it.

Javi has as much power in that house as the man on the moon. Does anybody really think he can tell Kail who she can't let watch Lincoln? Ha! If he tells Kail anything I bet it's at a very safe distance, over the phone and behind a double locked door.

[wrestlesflamingos]

Actually, that's untrue. Isn't the house only in Javi's name? I'd imagine shelter is as motivating to Kail as benefits.

[NikSac]

Actually, that's untrue. Isn't the house only in Javi's name? I'd imagine shelter is as motivating to Kail as benefits.

 

It's not a community property state? Wow that seems like something Kail wouldn't have overlooked!  Agree with you on the motivation, though.

[GreatKazu]

Find out please if it is a community property state. I am grinning from ear to ear hoping it isn't.

 

Kail said Isaac didn't come home from Jo's with any bad habits...was she expecting him to come home smoking? Tatted up? With a criminal record??

Just wait until Isaac comes home with a fat, tatted, teenage, Hispanic, thuggish girl. You know, one just like Kail, except for the Hispanic part. He will then drop the bomb that she is pregnant because only Hispanic teen girls get knocked up.

 

Shoot, I deleted it

Me too! I will have to check on demand.

 

Oh, I agree about the isolating thing, but didn't want to pin 100% of it on that unless it looked like there was no other reason for Jenelle and him to figuratively (this time, anyway) slap Barbara AND Jace in the face by choosing to live so far away.  And actually, if they did it to be closer to his daughter, that's still a huge insult to Jace, and possibly an even more personal one.

Yeah, I don't think so. Nipples' child is living with his ex-girlfriend's parents. I don't think Nips has a close relationship with them to the point he wants to be near them. I will stick with the theory that he is one insane asshole who is isolating Jenelle and trying to get back at Barb for daring to know his number and calling him out on his bullshit.

 

Kail is such a fucking loon. Bitch cannot stand Jo having his son for visitation, but she can leave her child with that crazy-ass bitch mother of hers who is sorely lacking in credibility. And was it only Abe Lincoln who stayed with Suzi or was it both kids? If so, why was Javi only bitching about his son?  Only when Kail needs her mama, does she call on her. When she doesn't, bye Suzi!  Kail can go kick rocks and eat some for all I care because it is she who is playing some twisted game there with Suzi. Kail can claim it is all about wanting her mom there no matter what, but only when it suits her. Kail is just as quick to push her mother out of her life as quickly as Suzi is to take a swig of alcohol. They are both co-dependent with each other.

Edited October 17, 2014 by GreatKazu

[FlowerofCarnage]

I think Kail's idea of Isaac picking up bad habits is him embracing Puerto Rican culture. She really has some nerve talking about someone's bad habits, like she doesn't have quite a few herself like getting shitty tattoos, beating her hubby on Wednesday's , not caring about the opinion of others, turning into a raging green monster whenever someone pisses her off, etc.

[fliptopbox]

Suzie is her mother. Just like we all think Barb should cut Janelle out of hers and Jace's life because of her terrible choices, Janelle is HER daughter and Jace's mother. Thats just how I feel. Its tough to be like, "screw you forever". 

I have the same feelings about my dad. He's a horrible human being (sociopath comes to mind) and a drug addict and he's totally selfish. Paranoid beyond belief. But he's still my dad. There are times I still feel like I should tell him stuff, like if I am having an important surgery or (let's say) if I were getting married. I know he doesn't care....but I still wish he did, because he's my dad and he should. I get that feeling. It's shitty.

[lilmarysunshine]

They might have the "resources" for a sitter every few weeks if they didn't have a Benz and loaded Suburban in their driveway.

[Brooklynista]

Actually, that's untrue. Isn't the house only in Javi's name? I'd imagine shelter is as motivating to Kail as benefits.

The house might be in Javi s name but I'm sure that means diddly squat to Kail. She rules that man and I would bet he has very little say in how things run in that house.

[leighroda]

Wait? So Kail didn't pick Isaac up from his probation officer after his visit with Jo?

My 2 cents about the Jace situation, Jenelle always makes a big deal out of how he behaves with her and he's bad when he's with Barbara... Umm... Maybe it's because he's scared of what will happen if he doesn't behave. He's apparently already mentioned that he has said things because he is scared of how Nathan will react (when they asked if he wanted to move in and he said yes, but then apparently told Jenelle off camera he didn't) so clearly he seems to be aware of some anger issues.

[Darknight]

I think it was only Lincoln. I kind of can't fault Kail for letting her Mom watch him because Kail said she was sober when she dropped him off. When she picked him up, she wasn't. And.. it's hard. Suzie is her mother. Just like we all think Barb should cut Janelle out of hers and Jace's life because of her terrible choices, Janelle is HER daughter and Jace's mother. Thats just how I feel. Its tough to be like, "screw you forever".

Sorry but when it's kids involved it's a different story. It's can cause more damage when mom or dad comes whenever where ever or shows up when they feel like it. It's time for tough love even if it is your mother or daughter. The kids come first. What if Kali mother was drinking and she was drinking with the boys? If Jenelle and Kali mother wants to see their grandkids or kid then they have to grow up and see their own faults and prove themselves to be worthy

I think Kail's idea of Isaac picking up bad habits is him embracing Puerto Rican culture. She really has some nerve talking about someone's bad habits, like she doesn't have quite a few herself like getting shitty tattoos, beating her hubby on Wednesday's , not caring about the opinion of others, turning into a raging green monster whenever someone pisses her off, etc.

White people can't do no wrong according to Kali. Seems to me she uses this to her advantage. If you don't like a culture don't reproduce or marry into it. Isaac will always be biracial. He's not white. And isn't his last name Rivera? His puerto rican culture will always be apart of him.

Imagine if Isaac was half black and she said those things.

[FozzyBear]

I think it was only Lincoln. I kind of can't fault Kail for letting her Mom watch him because Kail said she was sober when she dropped him off. When she picked him up, she wasn't. And.. it's hard. Suzie is her mother. Just like we all think Barb should cut Janelle out of hers and Jace's life because of her terrible choices, Janelle is HER daughter and Jace's mother. Thats just how I feel. Its tough to be like, "screw you forever".

It's a really tough thing. Most people don't ever really stop hoping for the best from their parents, kids, siblings, etc. but on the other hand it's so frustrating to be the other partner in this situation. I have a close relative who went through this with his SOs mom. Not substance abuse, but a lot of crazy. Her big thing was promising to babysit and then flaking at the last minute. All the fucking time. Got to the point where he didn't want to even agree to let her babysit anymore, but the SO would guilt him into it. They actually almost separated when they missed a friend's wedding because she guilted him into agreeing to let her mom babysit and then she flaked 15 minutes after they were supposed to leave and they couldn't find another sitter in time. That may sound extreme, but it was after years of arguing about her mom. He kind of snapped. Sometimes it can be hard to be the 3rd person in that kind of crazy. Sadly, I think Kali is going to be haunted by the fact that she has horrible inter-personal skills. I don't always think Kali means to be a bitch, but she wouldn't know healthy if it fell on her.

[Mkay]

Actually, that's untrue. Isn't the house only in Javi's name? I'd imagine shelter is as motivating to Kail as benefits.

.

Tax property records show as this:

Marroquin Jose J &

So someone is on there with him but on my phone I'm not able to click and dig in any further.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Mkay

[Ljohnson1987]

My heart broke when Babs was talking about Jace. It's so obvious how she's put her heart and soul into him, and loves him. Jenelle will never be like that.

[StatisticalOutlier]

A few observations:

 

Sad Panda said "Your guys's relationship..."  Makes me hate him even more.

 

Jenelle said her mother sometimes does "a complete 180."  Impressive.  She actually retained some geometry along the way.

 

Kail said she'd learned her lesson about letting Suzi watch the kids.  However, I noticed that when Javi said he was mad because they had specifically discussed this, and that she had fought him over it, Kail said the discussion took place after the incident with Suzi and Lincoln.  They seem to agree that's all true.  So what doesn't make sense is why Kail fought about it.  Seems to me, if the incident affected Kail the way she said it did, when Javi later said, "I don't want Suzi taking care of my son because I don't trust her," what Kail should have said (especially if she was not wanting to admit she'd done exactly that), "You're right.  She's not trustworthy and I will never let her watch him."  Instead, she fought about it.  

 

Maybe it just hadn't sunk in until then (as other has noted, this is a very tough situation to deal with and Kail has fewer skills than a lot of people), but it just seems crazy that she'd go so far as to fight about it.  Maybe they fight about everything...I don't know.  But this one seemed like an easy way to offer up a "Yes, dear, you're exactly right." 

[FozzyBear]

Kail said she'd learned her lesson about letting Suzi watch the kids. However, I noticed that when Javi said he was mad because they had specifically discussed this, and that she had fought him over it, Kail said the discussion took place after the incident with Suzi and Lincoln. They seem to agree that's all true. So what doesn't make sense is why Kail fought about it. Seems to me, if the incident affected Kail the way she said it did, when Javi later said, "I don't want Suzi taking care of my son because I don't trust her," what Kail should have said (especially if she was not wanting to admit she'd done exactly that), "You're right. She's not trustworthy and I will never let her watch him." Instead, she fought about it.

Maybe it just hadn't sunk in until then (as other has noted, this is a very tough situation to deal with and Kail has fewer skills than a lot of people), but it just seems crazy that she'd go so far as to fight about it. Maybe they fight about everything...I don't know. But this one seemed like an easy way to offer up a "Yes, dear, you're exactly right."

I think Kali is the type that has spent so much time managing a parent that she has trouble conceptulizing that not everyone is going to do that. Playing this game with Susie is such a major part of her life and I don't think she understand fully there are other options and Javi doesn't want to play. Some people who grow up like that react that way. They just don't understand disengagement as an option. Kali has spent her whole life waiting for Susie to shape up and I'm sure she gets very confused when Javi doesn't want to. Like sincerely confused in a "ok so what's the strategy here? We tell my mom she can't babysit and then send her an AA flyer with a note from the boys saying they miss her?" "No. She just can't babysit. Maybe if she cleans up we'll talk about it again, but she just can't. "That makes no sense." way. Edited October 17, 2014 by FozzyBear

[Snarky McSnarky]

.

Tax property records show as this:

Marroquin Jose J &

So someone is on there with him but on my phone I'm not able to click and dig in any further.

It's truncated online as well. 

[GreatKazu]

I kind of can't fault Kail for letting her Mom watch him because Kail said she was sober when she dropped him off. When she picked him up, she wasn't. And.. it's hard. Suzie is her mother.

Sorry, but just can't go with this. As Darknight put so eloquently, when there are kids involved, fuck the adults who can't get their shit together. Isaac and Lincoln are children and expect their parents to look out for their best interest. Kail, for all of her yammering on about how she is in charge of her boys and no one can care for them the way she does, to the point where she can't even trust Jo with his own son, then bitch needs to take several damn seats and shut the fuck up with that sobbing mess and trying to tell us Suzi is her mom and she wants that relationship so bad. *buzzer* Nope, that shit doesn't fly with me at all. If there is one thing I learned about having a relationship with an alcoholic is that there is no relationship. Having a relationship takes two people. Alcoholics, like Suzi, don't have relationships because they are self-centered. That is Al-Anon 101.

 

If Kail wants a one-sided relationship with her mother, then by all means, go right ahead. But don't involve those kids.  That should never have happened. I don't care how fucking bad Kail wants her mother in her life. Kail keeps pushing away the good people in her life all the while clinging to hope for the fucked up one called Suzi. As long as Suzi is an alcoholic, Kail will never have a decent relationship with her.

 

Kail can boo-fucking-hoo all she wants, but her stupidity gets no sympathy from me. What if Suzi had really gone off the deep end while Lincoln was in her care? Would Kail's feelings really matter at that point? Why does something bad have to happen in order for Kail to know what she did was beyond stupid? Even Stevie Wonder could see that Suzi is not the person to be in charge of children. Look at the fucked-up mess that is Kail.

[ghoulina]

I think it was only Lincoln. I kind of can't fault Kail for letting her Mom watch him because Kail said she was sober when she dropped him off. When she picked him up, she wasn't. And.. it's hard. Suzie is her mother. Just like we all think Barb should cut Janelle out of hers and Jace's life because of her terrible choices, Janelle is HER daughter and Jace's mother. Thats just how I feel. Its tough to be like, "screw you forever".

 

I don't think she has to say "screw you forever". But I kind of liked Jo's idea - let the kids see Suzie, but have it be very casual, and definitely don't let her babysit. You don't want to let the kids get super attached, because Suzie is a flake who may not be around for several months at a time. So keep it light. She clearly loves those kids, but she has an addiction. And I know it's hard for Kail, but when you have kids - they come first. She KNOWS firsthand that her mom cannot be trusted when it comes to drinking. So I don't care if she was sober when she called, that was still a colossally dumb idea. 

[Chicken Wing]

I, like Javi, wonder if Kail would have ever told him about what happened when Lincoln was with Suzi if the cat hadn't been dragged out of the bag by someone else. I don't blame him for being angry - not just about the fact that his son was in such an inappropriate and potentially harmful situation, but that his wife felt the need to keep it from him afterward. That's some serious trust broken right there.

 

I get what Kail says about always going back to Suzi, that even though she can say a million times that she's never going to speak to her again she knows perfectly well that she'll always go back, because that's her mom and she'll keep giving her chance after chance even though intellectually she knows it's probably a waste of time and doing more harm than good. But when that harm extends to the kids, and in ways beyond just being disappointed that grandma just waltzes in and out of their lives with no stability, then it's time to set some boundaries.

 

Have Kail and Javi made any friends in Delaware? Doesn't Isaac go to school there? Hasn't Kail met any other young-ish parents there or at a play group or something? Is it really that hard to find a baby-sitter when you need one? I know it's hard when you move to a new town where none of your friends and family happen to live already, but that's why you have to go out and meet people. They can't just exist in their own bubble. I'm sure Javi trusts his mother and sister and cousin implicitly over anyone else on earth, but relying on no one but them to watch the kid is not practical when they DON'T LIVE THERE. And they tried a local babysitter but it didn't work out because Lincoln started crying as soon as they left? Maybe he was crying because he's a baby and he was uncomfortable being alone with the stranger but he'll get used to it and he'll crap his pants and then fall asleep like usual because he's a baby and that's what they do?

[ChristmasJones]

If I were to sum up my response to this thread so far...

 

imagine that I am using 72 point font......

 

 

PREACH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

So many awesome posts on this thread.... so far its looking like I can do unlimited "likes" so that is a good thing on this forum.

I can't bring myself to watch Sad Panda with the girlses anymore, so I just read here instead. Its scary how many teens are watching this show, and the way he frames the issues these girlses are dealing with. Truly frightening.

[missy jo]

Last week Corey was the classy one and this week it was Joe, with his diplomatic response to Kail's blatant racism. Ain't buyin' what he's sellin', but still.

 

Regarding Jenelle, I hope that Barb is just playing it really, really smart by saying the right things about transferring custody while knowing that Jenelle will never keep her shit together long enough to actually do that.

 

Let alone, she does NOT want custody of Jace. At all. Ever. And repeatedly asking a small child, "Do you want to live with me?" is abusive. You don't saddle a child with that pressure. Sadly, I also don't believe Barbra when she says that Jace is now "a happy child." Poor kid.

 

IIRC, they live so far away from Jace because Jenelle chose to move a couple hours away to be with Nathan.

[FozzyBear]

I don't think Janelle wants custody either. Ever. Sad, but I don't think she's ever really bonded with Jace. He's just a kid to her, like babysitting a neighbors kid. Fun for a while, but you're not looking to get custody.

[LexiconDevilOne]

I don't think she's bonding much with Kaiser, either. Nipples seems to be doing the vast majority of the work, as seen on Teen Mom 2. Sure she occasionally holds him, but she doesn't smile or interact much with him, even while holding him.

[Maharincess]

A few observations:

Sad Panda said "Your guys's relationship..." Makes me hate him even more.

To me, what's worse is that he never says the whole word "relationship".

He said "your guys's relay ship".

That's one of my pet peeves. Relationship has FOUR syllables, not three.

[Ladystardust]

Actually Loveline is still on the air 4 or 5 days a week. Dr. Drew is still hosting. I listen sporadically now, but loved it back in college. He is much more blunt on the radio show than with the reunion hosting. I've always wondered if he is given restrictions on topics with the teen moms because they are pseudo-celebrities and may have some pull over that type of thing. Mtv probably doesn't want to lose such big stars so they may come to agreements on certain things like that so they don't bail. Because there is no excuse for the stuff he glosses over. However I still don't get him always praising the shittiest people (Adam, Jenelle).

Edited October 19, 2014 by Ladystardust

[wrestlesflamingos]

I tend to think the poorly produced reunions are part of the show's advertising. If they never answer questions, the questions are still considered. If they take a weak stance on behavior, we continue to debate it. The girls have zero star power. They have to beg and manipulate for new seasons.

[jacksgirl]

Javi and Kali have a really uncomfortable dynamic.

 

Yes to this Fozzybear!  Their body language on the sofa is interesting too- very far apart, not leaning toward the other. Kail is so defensive about everything. Yes, I get that she cannot totally cut ties with her mom, so instead Sad Panda gets the "scoop" and its the first Javi has heard of it. Gosh Kail, you admit it to him when it happens. Trusting Suzy is one thing, lying by omission about it takes it to another level. Does Javi have brothers or just creepy sisters/cousins?  He really needs to grow a pair. Kail cannot take the blame for anything, she is really damaged- I can't see she and Javi making it long-term.

[mla40]

My take on Janelle is the complete opposite of the general consensus here. I think she truly loves Jace. I do see joy in her eyes when she's with him, it's the only time I see any emotion from her. I think she is being both mentally and physically abused by Nathan but is so desperate to be loved that she takes and holds on to the make up love he gives her. I think she also doesn't want the public humiliation of leaving him, even if he is abusive and knows she should leave. IMO it's a major factor in not really pushing to get Jace back, she knows he's better off with her mom.

[Lexie]

The only time I see any real emotion coming from Jenelle is when she is fighting with her boyfriends or crying over them.  

[StatisticalOutlier]

And she doesn't seem to be too troubled by public humiliation.

[GreatKazu]

Jenelle and public humiliation are words that don't go together.

 

Anyone else remember her nudie photos that were all over the internet? Sure they may have been leaked, but they were photos she gladly posed for. Let me see...

 

 - All of those charming physical fights she has gotten into with those girls which were videotaped for the public to see. Rather than admit shame and guilt, Jenelle was stuck on how she was having to defend herself; 

 

- What else? Oh, then there is her entire world being on this show where we see her go from one dick...I mean, one guy to another; 

 

- getting high, stealing her mother's credit cards, crying over a Kesha concert (by the way, she has never cried for Jace not one damn time); 

 

- crying and running after Keiffer who was trying to get away from her. It didn't matter he was in a car and she was on foot, that girl had no shame to chase after that druggie asshole in order to keep him from leaving her;

 

- Jenelle goes out and gets breast implants, but doesn't pay her mother child support anymore;

 

- Jenelle has been arrested numerous times for drugs, breaking and entering, domestic violence, assault and battery, violation of probation, and a slew of other charges;

 

- She meets and marries Courtland, becomes pregnant, files for divorce, gets an abortion because (her words paraphrasing) "It wouldn't be fair to bring a child into her life because of Jace" and how Jace needs her attention;

 

- What does she do next? She meets a guy from a dating app she visited and then is not sure if it is a true pregnancy because she thinks she may still have Courtland's fetus still inside her uterus. Yes, she said this shit on television;

 

- We also watch her lash out at poor animals and close them up in small cages.

 

The list is endless with this girl. She doesn't want the public humiliation of leaving Jace? Excuse me, she left Jace five years ago, physically, mentally and emotionally. Jenelle wrote off that kid and replaced him with dick after dick after dick. Jenelle has never once cried for Jace. When Kieffer and Nipples were in jail, that girl flowed so many tears, she could have caused a flood in her town. Bitch is self-centered and uncaring for her own flesh and blood.

Edited October 19, 2014 by GreatKazu

[mla40]

I'm not saying she's a great person by any means and in no way should have that beautiful little boy with her, but I do see love there.

As far as my humiliation comment, I think now that she's the most sober she has ever been (as I do think she's medicated) she has comprehended what everyone on social media has said about her. I don't th I k she will ever take responsibility for her actions that led to her earned reputation, but she is now go I g to stay in a shit abusive relationship just so she can say - see I am a good mother and can raise a baby with the baby's dad and be a real grown up.

I'm not excusing her actions at all but addicts do not see the world the way the rest of us do.

[HeySandyStrange]

I think it is possible that Jenelle does love Jace, but more as a little brother then as her child. I don't think she ever really bonded with him on the level of a real mother or had any motivation to be a mother to him. She pretty much checked out and left that to Barb from the beginning. She likes to babysit and have fun but she gives him back without much hesitation. I doubt she really wants custody and even if she was to get it, I don't she her being able to handle the stress of Jace along with the baby and Nips breathing down her neck.  Hopefully, she is more ready now and whatever happens will actually put the effort in to be a real mother for Kaiser. Time will tell on that one. I think the best case scenario for Jace would be for Jenelle's relationship with him to stay on a casual basis, with Barb firmly as his mother figure. 

[StatisticalOutlier]

I think she also doesn't want the public humiliation of leaving him, even if he is abusive and knows she should leave.

 

What really got me was the link posted upthread to a fight with Nipples she recorded.  At least with the long and scary list GreatKazu posted, most of that was before her "sobriety," and most was caught on MTV's cameras and I really do think people at some point kind of forget they're around.

 

However, a "sober" Jenelle recorded that fight with Nipples and it somehow got out of her phone and onto the internet.  Those are not the actions of someone who is concerned about public humiliation because that fight?  I'm humiliated for her, and I don't even like her.  And I think she's an irresponsible idiot to continue to allow herself to be around someone like that, not to mention her children, and her mother. 

 

I agree with you, however, that I can see her staying in an abusive relationship, but more probably because she's actually comfortable in it, or is invested in being "right" about her choices. 

 

 

IMO it's a major factor in not really pushing to get Jace back, she knows he's better off with her mom.

 

I'm not too sure about that.  I think Jenelle's thinking is more centered on herself, and how she's better off without custody of Jace, and not that Jace is (relatively) better off with Barb. 

 

 

I'm not excusing her actions at all but addicts do not see the world the way the rest of us do

 

True dat.  And most addicts aren't too worried about public humiliation, either.