S04.E02: White Out

[AudienceofOne]

Enjoyed the episode. Hated the flashback. It's not just that I wanted to smack Anna " you can defeat this warlord and her entire army after I teach you how to sword fight in one afternoon". It's that the whole thing didn't make any sense in the end.

 

But then they gave me Captain Swan and made me happy.

Edited October 6, 2014 by AudienceofOne

[retrograde]

Some additional thoughts on rewatch (yeah, I know):

• I really like that they're not just sidelining Snow because both the character and the actor are looking after babies. With so much else going on on the show, it would have been really easy for the writers to get away with it. 
• In an episode with some hammy acting all around, JMo does a good job selling the sense that she really is freezing and getting weaker and weaker -- even surrounded by a bunch of styrofoam. 
• I actually enjoyed Henry yelling at Regina's door at the end there. And I rarely enjoy Henry doing anything. I also think the actor's acting has improved.
• It's right that Emma should think of Hook working out electricity as catching up with the 21st century, but I don't think Hook should see Enchanted Forest stuff as "old fashioned." To us it is old fashioned because it has parallels to long-gone times in our world, but stuff in the EF should seem "modern" to Hook at least, just in a different way. Unless doubloons were old fashioned in the EF, too, and he considers himself old fashioned because of the 300 years in Neverland thing? 
• Every time I see David say "It's what this family does, we find people. We always do, because we..." I expect him to finish with "...get separated all the time. Like every few weeks. It's kind of ridiculous actually."

[MaiLuna]

I liked this episode. I think even better than last week's.

 

I liked the flashbacks. Anna is adorable and it was nice to see how David became so brave and good with a sword. I don't know how clumsy Anna was even good with a sword in the first place but it was cute so I'll let it pass.

 

I liked the Storybrooke stuff too. Hook and Charming make a good team. Emma and Elsa make good friends. Captain Swan are adorable. There wasn't much Regina which is always good though it seemed OOC for her to push Henry away for her short relationship. And yeah, the raven thing was weird. They both have cell phones. I did like their final scene though. And I wanna know how Hook knows about power lines, dinner dates, champagne in ice buckets, electric heaters and how to answer Emma's calls.

 

Snow's little SL was cute except for that Regina line. I didn't mind the breastfeeding mentions but I know some other cultures are more iffy about that.

 

I loved how Charming, Hook and Henry were taking care of Emma. She deserves that. I wish Snow had done something motherly too though.

 

Why was Rumpel so happy about Anna going to look for him?

 

I thought it'd be nice if the show didn't have a villain for a while but EM's introduction was the best one the show has ever done.

[InsertWordHere]

I'm rewatching and after Charming figures out that "Joan" is a false name, he asks her if she's wanted. She's not, but his future wife is and could be badly telling Red her own alias "Margaret! I mean, Mary!" at that very moment. It gave me Snowing feels.

[KAOS Agent]

I sometimes love this fandom. There are already gifs of David's hair flip. We need more episodes of David in the grunge rock wig just so I can have more hair flipping moments.

[Aliasscape]

I commend the show for being so open about breastfeeding. It's crazy rare for an infant to be in show and you never once see a bottle anywhere on screen. The media can be a huge help in normalizing that this is what some people do and it is a perfectly valid option. That no you don't have to feed your baby with a bottle. And it's nothing to be ashamed of, hidden or not mentioned for any reason whatsoever honestly. I feel like every person saying that it made them squeamish is exactly the reason to do it. Until it is just as normal to have a breastfeeding mom on TV as a bottle feeding one, so it's nothing to bat an eye at all. It makes me wish the show could last long enough for Snow to breastfeed beyond a year old even and show that even that is totally normal, reasonable and beneficial.

 

Ahem, okay, off that soap box, onto the episode, because that said. Why you'd take your newborn into a power plant, I have no idea. And the way Granny and the dwarves just stalked out with disdain after Snow yelled at them. I mean hey, you want her to fix this? Volunteer to baby sit?

 

Still, the dwarves were totally blaming Snow and Charming for all the problems in town when they were in Neverland. They are truly some fair weather friends.

 

I know Snow had just come in, but I found it odd that she didn't take one look at Emma and express concern. It was just straight to who is this and David's "we don't give up" stuff. Her daughter nearly died and looked like death warmed over, but heaven forbid they actually have her mother seem worried about it.

 

This was my least favorite thing about the entire episode. Snow has no idea what's going on. She comes in, sees strangers sure but she should also see Emma wrapped in a blanket with a heater, white as a sheet and doesn't ask, "My goodness, Emma, what happened? Are you okay?" 

 

It's a running gag of RIDICULOUS how Snow can't be bothered to give Emma a second glance or show any concern about her at all ever. I absolutely loved how David was worried about Emma the whole time. That he never called to mention to Snow their daughter might be dying is the only thing I didn't like about him in Storybrooke this episode. But I get he had limited time and his focus on saving his baby.

 

Even though I feel like Emma was using "Dad" on the walkie because she'd just told Elsa that was her father on the other end and probably didn't want to cast doubt on that by calling him "David" it still warmed my heart. I was annoyed that Hook was all ack, I must talk to her even though she just said something to her father. But thankfully that was the only moment Hook truly bugged me this episode.

 

Oh and I also love how super protective David has also dealt with enough female warlords, evil queens and such in his life that when he first saw that Emma was standing next to some strange woman in a flowing gown, he still didn't even blink at aiming a gun at her and viewing her as a complete and total threat to his daughter.

 

 

• In an episode with some hammy acting all around, JMo does a good job selling the sense that she really is freezing and getting weaker and weaker -- even surrounded by a bunch of styrofoam. 

I thought it was amazing. Did they put ice packs in her pockets? Did she stand in a freezer between takes? To shiver that hard and breathe like you're really, really cold, she did absolutely awesome. It was one of my favorite things about the episode. I wanted Emma hurt or ill with her parents worried about her ever since the curse was broken. So I was thrilled with the frozen Emma and Emma/Elsa parts of this episode. Emma needs more friends, definitely. Her mother certainly isn't her friend these days.

 

My only Emma complaint was that I didn't like Emma's random progression of hypothermia. She's so cold she can't keep her eyes open or sit up but then Elsa's on the walkie with her dad so she opens her eyes and sits up. I mean, either she was nearly dead or she wasn't. At least she nearly passed out after being helped out the little hole.

 

Oh and the second I see Jane Espenson has written something I know the logic and plotting will be completely out the window. I'm honestly shocked they didn't grab some dynamite and try to blow up the cavern to get in and rescue Emma. I mean hey last time Jane trapped someone in a cave that was the plan. I agree that David's speech was really overly long and dramatic for its purpose. I liked the sword lessons from Anna adding some credence actually to David doing well picking up a sword in the future against that dragon. He was going through a rough period mentally and emotionally and I liked them showing that even when that might be, the thought of anyone being kidnapped/hurt/enslaved on his behalf was unacceptable to him.

 

Poor Elizabeth Lail's script pages must be like huge paragraphs that she has to just say very quickly. She's so cute doing it though.

 

Ha, Bo Peep, the warlord's chop shop. But if her staff still works, why didn't she still have people at her beck and call?

 

My sister decided the most evil thing about Elizabeth Mitchell was her sticking her bare hands in the ice cream. So much worse than her maintaining a giant snow wall to trap everyone. She's spreading her EVIL germs to ice cream via Any Given Sundae. Also she's surely a sociopath. It was like she had to think about how to even smile at Grumpy.

 

Ah, Regina. One breakup and she can't use a phone or be a parent. Idiotic for a woman absolutely so obsessed with her son she couldn't stand the thought of life without him. But now, she needs him to not even come by. And yeah, it's absolutely ridiculous he misses the room he hasn't slept in in like two years. None of the clothes or stuff he has there should even fit him now. 

 

I used to wonder why Belle couldn't manage to interact with anyone in town except for Rumpel really. Now we know it was so she'd eventually not care who Rumpel threatens to kill or let die. It's not like she knows any of them all that well anyway.

 

Oh and it's not retcon that they have the internet and stuff. Henry used the internet in the pilot. They checked his email and such. And we've seen like the weather channel and other things to show some modern tech around town.

 

I'm gonna rewatch Emma and Elsa in the ice cave all week I think. That's really all I care about. I hope Emma and Elsa are basically inseparable for a bit and that Emma takes on helping her remain calm.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Aliasscape

[Minneapple]

Great episode!

Can someone explain the "Joan" reference? I have not seen Frozen

I don't think it's from Frozen. My guess is that it's a Buffy shoutout -- Joan was the name that Buffy chose in Tabula Rasa when everyone lost their memory. That was the first thing I thought of anyway.

Really enjoying the Frozen characters in this. The actresses are spot on and the characters are well-written. And I absolutely adored Elsa and Emma together. They should totally be BFFs and hang out and help each other with their powers.

Captain Swan is really sweet.

Bo Peep pretty much ruled. I had given up on this show for awhile and came back late last season -- have we seen her before?

Edited October 6, 2014 by Minneapple

[Aliasscape]

The Joan Reference is definitely from Frozen

Elizabeth Lail tweeted about it: http://magic-always-comes-with-a-price.tumblr.com/post/99274802855/cant-believe-i-didnt-make-the-connection-o

 

Another set here:

http://oncepromised.tumblr.com/post/99279558491

 

No, we've never seen Bo Peep before on Once.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Aliasscape

[Ariah]

Almost no Regina makes this episode a hundred times better than the previous one. Even with the mop-of-the-week wig and ice decoration taken straight from a school production of Frozen.

 

I have made peace with the fact that watching this show means not paying attention to CGI and setting. They are both sub-par. But it's like watching a play in theatre: you know this is all fake, this is all setting and light and it's supposed to be menacing but it isn't, because paper-mache is seldom menacing.

 

Watching this episode I didn't see any drama, and very little danger. But it's ok. I know I was supposed to feel it, just like in a theatre.

- - -

 

Let me just say here: I love Captain Swan. Everything Captain Swan was perfect, even the champagne reference at the beginning because - I get it - Hook is sort of frustrated. I'm not sure they got to watching Netflix at all!

Anyhow, his initial frustration quickly turned into horror, as he realized this sarcastic words might have been the last words he actually spoke to Emma. I really felt his fear in this episode. David kept his cool better (pun intended, ha!), but David is an optimist (now, he wasn't that in the flashback... maybe it's the hair).

 

I kind of hoped Snow would react to how Emma ws slowly thawing out in the living room CUDDLING WITH HOOK.. Alas, Snow once again failed to act mothely towards Emma... Heck, she even didn't act like a friend. Poor, poor writing.

 

(Another poor writing? the Regina part of Snow's rant. Yes, sure, the peasants are bad, the Evil Queen was right all the time... U-uh)

 

- - -

 

I don't know how I feel about Elizabeth Mitchell's character and the fact she apparently has been in Storybrooke all this years, giving out ice-cream. If not, perhaps we should get a quick into like Leroy saying "Let's check this new ice-cream shop down the street, it's not like we had this streak of cold weather recently..."

 

If the Snow Queen Senior had been here all the time, what has she been doing? Inventing new flavours?...

 

- - -

 

Final remark: Bo Peep the Warlady was so campy I loved her! And I loved her present day persona. Plus the way David and Hook worked togather to bring her down.

[KAOS Agent]

 

It's a running gag of RIDICULOUS how Snow can't be bothered to give Emma a second glance or show any concern about her at all ever. I absolutely loved how David was worried about Emma the whole time. That he never called to mention to Snow their daughter might be dying is the only thing I didn't like about him in Storybrooke this episode.

 

What seriously irked me about the whole thing was that Snow was off on the comedic C-plot of the episode while her daughter was dying. What the hell? I get that Emma was barely conscious and everyone was working hard to save her, but don't you think her mother might have wanted to be there to tell her goodbye over the walkie? Or at least to try to provide encouragement and the hope that it would all work out? But oh no, the writers have her off being Mama Mayor so everyone's TVs will work instead of dealing with the life and death situation her daughter was facing. They don't even try to hide that couldn't care less about the mother/daughter relationship.

Edited October 6, 2014 by KAOS Agent

[pitchy]

Did Snow even know about Emma almost being frozen?  She was in the power plant the entire time, and I'm pretty sure she didn't have any communication with anyone there, or else should would have been at the town line, stat.  She even asked, "Who's that?" about Elsa, so I don't think she was getting any updates.

 

Another weird thing I forgot to mention was that Emma was in the diner when the electricity went out, and 2 seconds later, David radios that he's getting calls from everyone about the electricity being down.  Did they forget the lag time there?  

 

 

I liked her as Juliet on "Lost" too, but not when she was a villain.  I found her so smug and annoying in villain mode, so that's what I'm afraid of.  She was so much better in a layered well-written role as was Juliet in the later seasons.  "Revolution" was just horribly written (I hated that show so much), so she never got anything to play.  I didn't mind "V" but that wasn't very deep.

 

Did you catch her on Jimmy Kimmel one night when she was surprisingly in hysterical goofball mode?  She was so funny and couldn't doubling over with laughter over anything and everything,  Totally unlike her characters, so I decided she's a good actress.  Very grim in 'V' though -- they never did have an ending for that series.  It just disappeared.  I remember her most for the scene with Josh Holloway in front of the vending machines in the last episode of Lost.

[patchwork]

Not that I care very much, the less Belle the better imo, but as she does have the dagger I suppose Belle could be choosing what she says to Rumple very carefully because she doesn't want to use the it's power to control him. 

 

Captain Swan is love, it's unlikely to last so I'll take the cute as long as I can get it. 

 

A message by crow is so Regina that I lol-ed, she could have sent a text then turned off her phone but nah not nearly dramatic enough. So should we be taking this rejection of Henry to be further evidence of her super special emotional soul? How can she see or talk to her true love when her soul mate has been callously ripped away from her. 

/sarcasm.

 

I think it's sweet that Henry researched and prepared a gift basket but there's an undercurrent of creepy to that makes me wonder if the writer isn't fully onboard with the St. Regina nonsense and is subtly reminding the audience of the years of gaslighting Henry has endured. 

 

Anna *is* a Pollyanna and the tight grip Disney seems to have in regards to the Frozen characters I'll be surprised if she's allowed to be anything more than that. Perhaps that's why we have Elizabeth Mitchell's character, she's evil Elsa. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I choose to believe that Joan was a Buffy reference in this episode written by Jane Espenson.

Between the Joan reference, Bo Peep's staff in place of the scythe, and David's wig which was as hilarious as the Angel flashback wigs (if only David had started speaking in a really bad Irish accent!), I was convinced this was a Buffy tribute episode even before I knew Jane Espenson was the writer this week (maybe I should pay more attention to the opening credits).

 

Last season I found some superficial Hook/Spike similarities (bad boy with an English accent wearing guyliner and a long dark coat who falls in love with the heroine) but the whole conversation at the ice wall (saying he showed up because of her distress call, calling this encounter a second date but diffusing that by joking about champagne and the giant ice bucket, saying that he would kill them all one by one, looking disappointed but resigned when she said she saw someone inside the ice wall) and the way he leaned into Emma afterward reminded me a lot of Spike.

 

Loved that when David tried to act like an overprotective dad about Hook's intentions and his pointed comment about Hook's reputation, Hook told him that he doesn't see Emma as loot, their relationship will be whatever he and Emma decide it is equally, and to butt out.

 

When Elsa said that she had lost Anna's necklace, I thought well why don't you and David go back to the ice wall and fish it out of that crack using Bo Peep's staff? Or bust a small hole so that you can climb down to get it? Leaving it there is just asking for something like Gold getting his hands on it.

 

 

 

I'm not especially looking forward to Elizabeth Mitchell being on this show, I've kind of soured on her after Revolution, and the last thing this show wants to do is remind me of Lost.

I don't dislike the actress per se, but I had to quit watching both Revolution and Lost so that I wouldn't have to buy a new tv after throwing things at it while watching these two shows. Hopefully she will have more luck with her OUAT character

 

 

 

 

So, it's official. They have internet, dvd, vcr, and all those alphabet things.  Hook could be catching on by simply surfing the web.  However....why have we never known they had those things?  Bad retconning, esp. considering Henry was obsessed with a fairy tale book and not a video game.

The internet has existed in Storybrooke from the very beginning. Henry stole Mary Margaret's credit card to buy something online.

 

 

 

Every time I see David say "It's what this family does, we find people. We always do, because we..." I expect him to finish with "...get separated all the time. Like every few weeks. It's kind of ridiculous actually."

Ha, seriously, this family should be connected to each other by a series of leashes at this point.

 

I thought it was a bit much for Grumpy, Happy, and Granny to storm into Mary Margaret's apartment and demand that she get the power back on. She's not an electrician so why would she have any more luck figuring it out than anyone else in town? Just because she was in charge in the Enchanted Forest doesn't mean she's better at looking up the name of the Storybrooke electrician in the phone book than anyone else. Stop being so needy, people. Learn a little self sufficiency.

 

I like Lana Parilla but Regina is on my shit list. Between the constant self pity "poor me" victim mentality, the forays back into evil whenever things don't go her way, and the way she completely abandoned Henry because the guy she's been making out with for two days dumped her for his wife, I do not need to see her whining about her broken heart. The only good thing that came of her selfish decision to shun Henry was that it meant I got to go almost an entire episode without her pity party.

 

Henry's acting is so bad that I dislike most of his scenes with anyone. Both his emo staring and his yelling at Regina's door were embarrassing to watch. I feel bad saying that because I try to cut kid actors some slack but part of me hopes that he the next curse involves Henry getting sucked into a different world and everyone's memories being wiped of all knowledge of his existence.

 

ITA that Elsa has the regal bearing and formal/distant way of speaking that make me believe she was raised as the heir apparent.

 

How did Bo Peep's magical staff survive being brought to Storybrooke during Regina's curse? And how is it still magical?

Edited October 6, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Curio]

Henry's acting is so bad that I dislike most of his scenes with anyone. Both his emo staring and his yelling at Regina's door were embarrassing to watch. I feel bad saying that because I try to cut kid actors some slack but part of me hopes that he the next curse involves Henry getting sucked into a different world and everyone's memories being wiped of all knowledge of his existence.

 

Henry's super robotic line delivery at Granny's where all he can say is "she doesn't want to see me" was cringe worthy. And I try to give kid actors some slack, too, but Jared was actually really good in the first season! I don't know if it's puberty or what, but this emo tween phase is not fun to watch.

 

It also occurred to me that the episode Good Form might be interesting to re-watch now that we know about Charming's dad. With Hook drinking that entire episode and Charming butting heads with him, maybe there's some unintentionally poignant moments now where Hook not only reminds Charming of his twin brother but also his dad. I'm specifically thinking of the moment when Charming climbs up the cliff after Pan was talking with Hook and Charming sees the flask in Hook's hand and gets pissed off.

[ShadowFacts]

Bo Peep was trippy, but why did King George or whomever allow her to exist?  And why is she just butchering meat in Storybrooke now that it is uncursed, since as mentioned above, she has a magical shepherd's hook?  It still works because David used it.

 

I also could not get past David's atrocity of a wig, and I like long hair on men.  It was not believable to me that Anna could have unlocked the "real" David in one day.  I don't think her analogies applied much to his situation, and I hate the old device of spilling one's guts to a stranger.  I guess I can buy his father's backstory since he had given up (sold?) David's twin to the king, but that wasn't made clear in the episode because David doesn't know it at that point.  Anna pushes the plucky/perky meter just a little too far for me.

 

Regina being a bad mother again via the isolation and crow message is no surprise.  She has never been caring and nurturing, and the whole true love's kiss/white magic garbage was just that.  It was great to mostly not see her.  Or Gold.  They are not interesting to me anymore, I'm not a CaptainSwan shipper, Snow is sidelined/comic relief, so what's left is pretty much Elsa and now the Dairy Queen. They are more interesting than just about anything else, and are only guest stars, right?  I am surprised by my positive reaction to Elsa, who with spare dialogue is really shining, and I do like Elizabeth Mitchell. 

 

Was I seeing correctly, or was there a pretty major spoiler in the previews for next week?  Not clear if we can discuss previews that come at the end of an episode here, but

looks like Marian is gone too soon. Again.

[Crimson Belle]

Did anyone notice that when she hugged Hook as she was rescued from the ice cave that Emma cradled Hook's head with her hand just like David does to Emma?

[Serena]

I think it's sweet that Henry researched and prepared a gift basket but there's an undercurrent of creepy to that makes me wonder if the writer isn't fully onboard with the St. Regina nonsense and is subtly reminding the audience of the years of gaslighting Henry has endured. 

Between that, minimal Regina, and that line from Elsa reminding us you don't owe your thanks to people who endanger your life, I feel like Jane was sending us subliminal messages. 

[YaddaYadda]

that line from Elsa reminding us you don't owe your thanks to people who endanger your life, I feel like Jane was sending us subliminal messages.

 

It's so nice to see someone powerful who has self-awareness.  How refreshing! 

 

Also, I don't think Emma needs to sit and discuss with Henry her Not!Relationship with Hook.  Because seriously...

[Jean]

It's so nice to see someone powerful who has self-awareness.  How refreshing! 

I'm convinced some Disney corp person added that in with their red pen.

[Ariah]

 that line from Elsa reminding us you don't owe your thanks to people who endanger your life

 

I loved that line. Was really shocked when it came out.

 

Elsa, you're cool! Keep that up.

[FurryFury]

I liked the episode more than the previous one, but more because of things that were not in it rather than by its own merits. Specifically, it lacked Outlaw Queen (and Regina in general) and Rumbelle, and that's fantastic. I was relieved to relax while watching the show without having to fast-forward through their scenes.

 

However, I see it more of a wasted opportunity than a real success. The dialogue was very clunky. The Bo Peep as a warlord thing, while an interesting idea, wasn't realized well enough and felt contrived as hell. Anna was verging on being annoying, and while the actress is charming, she continues to overact. Some of character moments felt off, like Granny and Grumpy being the ones to push Snow - they are her friends, for fuck's sake! No way would they ever be so insensitive.

 

I generally liked Emma/Elsa bonding, but it also felt a teensy bit off for Emma - she's not a person who would get so chummy with someone who endangered her life so fast. I guess it was supposed to show that finally finding her home, her family and a relationship thawed her off somewhat, but still, it happened way too quickly.

[SilverShadow]

I was really happy with this epsiode. I got Snowing Family feels, Captain Swan, Bo Peep the Warlord, Captain Charming bromance, and Emma and Elsa the soon to be BFFs (I hope). And I liked that Elsa kind of reverted. She doesn't have Anna and she's in a strange new land all by herself. It makes sense that'd she'd be anxious to the poitn where it would affect her powers.

Edited October 6, 2014 by SilverShadow

[NotBothered]

I generally liked this episode.  I hope they can sustain this trend.

 

I'm loving Frozen (although Anna is not working for me as well as she did in the movie...but living up to Kristen Bell is hard), I'm loving more David (I like the flashback hair...I thought it was far better than his other flashback hair), and I'm loving Captain Swan. 

 

I agree that this was one of the funnest outings we've had in awhile...which is likely due to limited Rumple and Regina.  Their characters have just sort of turned into downers...they are miserable all the time.

 

I do hope they sort out some of the issues with Snow.  They're doing a good job with Emma/David, but we get almsot no Emma/Snow anymore.  I have a feeling that's not going to change this season.  While I'm glad they're not sidelining her completely, I do expect that we'll mostly see Snow doing soundstage work this season to keep her hours under control, while David and Emma seem to do a lot of locations, limiting opportunities for interaction.

[kili]

Bo Peep was trippy, but why did King George or whomever allow her to exist? 

 

I'm not sure that David and his Mom lived in King George's kingdom. Surely somebody would have noticed the similarity between David and James if they had. King George's army invaded the farm, but that may have been a rading party. Perhaps the Charming farm was in an unifiliated area.

 

King George also seems like the sort who doesn't really care too much about the people in his kingdom so long as he gets his taxes. Even in our law-and-order world, protection rings can get a foothold.

 

And why is she just butchering meat in Storybrooke now that it is uncursed, since as mentioned above, she has a magical shepherd's hook?  It still works because David used it.

 

But the only thing that the hook seems to do is serve as a Lojack for people. It allows her to find people, so running wihtout paying her would be a mistake. It seems she uses her henchmen to rough you up or kill you. Without the henchmen, what good is the hook - you can find people in Storybrooke in the phone book. Like most protection rings, her schtick works because she keeps people afraid.

[tv echo]

I really liked this episode overall, mostly for the Elsa and Emma scenes.  While I have to suspend credibility that Elsa doesn't have enough control to tunnel out of her own ice cave (considering she can build an intricately designed ice castle and her own blue dress out of snow and ice), I do like her bonding with Emma over their respective power problems. 

 

Anna is really starting to grate on me.  The things I didn't like - the whole subplot with Anna and David (she teaches him to fght with a sword in one day, so that he can easily defeat two trained guards and one Bo Peep), that everyone seems to end up tied to Rumple in some way, and the sudden appearance of the Snow Queen who apparently has been hiding in Storybrooke this whole time, unbeknownst to everyone.  Also, David knew Kristof enough to be invited to his wedding, but never knew Arendelle was ruled by a Queen with power over ice and snow?

 

Although I look forward to the evil Snow Queen storyline, I was disappointed to see who was playing her.  Elizabeth Mitchell had major roles on Lost, V and Revolution - and she acted exactly the same in every single role.  She seems to have one facial expression - stoic - and no acting nuances.  Sorry to be harsh, but that's my impression.  Maybe she'll surprise me on OUAT.  But why couldn't they have cast someone else, like Susanna Thompson?

 

I'm confused by David's parentage.  David and James were twins separated at birth, and one became a Prince and the other became a shepherd.  So who was their real father - the King or Ruth's husband?  And which was the alcoholic - the real father or the adoptive father?

 

Considering how old Jared Gilmore looks and sounds now, it just sounded kinda ridiculous when Emma tried to play the "Operation" game with Henry.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Anna was magically trapped somewhere by Rumple when she went to see him.

[Mari]

Ha, seriously, this family should be connected to each other by a series of leashes at this point.

I've wondered about some version of tracking chips.  People use them for dogs, and most dogs get lost much less often than a Charming family member goes missing.  We'd know when any future relationship has reached permanent status when the new family member has the ritual chip implanting.

 

Regina being a bad mother again via the isolation and crow message is no surprise.  She has never been caring and nurturing, and the whole true love's kiss/white magic garbage was just that.  It was great to mostly not see her. 

In my head canon, the reason the true love kiss between Regina/Henry worked was because Regina was actually in love with her self-image as Awesome Mom, and Henry just symbolized Regina's Awesome Momness.  It didn't have anything to do with Henry, really.  Henry was just the mirror Regina was kissing herself with.  It's the only thing I can figure out that makes the rest of their relationship work.

 

Some of character moments felt off, like Granny and Grumpy being the ones to push Snow - they are her friends, for fuck's sake! No way would they ever be so insensitive.

It was a stretch, but one level I can sort of buy it.  They're used to Snow and Charming being the ones with the plan, and fixing things.  In an absolute monarchy--which they've kind of lived their entire life in, since even original curse Storybrooke was pretty much one--the royalty are supposed to be able to lead, no matter what's going on in their personal lives.

 

However, if they still thought of Regina in charge, no way would they have marched themselves over to Mayor Palace to demand things be fixed.  They'd've just bought a lot of candles and holed up at homes with fireplaces.  Them marching over to Castle Hovel is actually a measure of how much faith and trust they have that Snow will not only figure out how to fix things, but how much they trust her to not behead them.

[KingOfHearts]

Who lets a 12 year old purchase a bottle of red wine, anyway? That basket was creepy. I can only imagine the DVDs he picked out.

I didn't blame Regina at all for wanting some alone time after a breakup. Henry's drama was definitely materialized from his own brattiness.

Edited October 6, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Primetimer]

The snow glows white in Storybrooke tonight as the gang meets Elsa, and two new baddies get introduced.

Read the story

[kili]

So who was their real father - the King or Ruth's husband?

 

Ruth's husband. Ruth and her husband sold James to Rumple to get the farm. Rumple sold James to the King. When James gets killed at a bad time, Rumple offers him a replacement James if King George will give up intel on Cinderella's fairy god mother (whom Rumple kills and steals her wand). David never knew he had a twin until that point. James died without knowing he had a twin. Rumple offers to make the farm successful if David agress to replace James.

[Notwisconsin]

IT would be really cool if it's the Disney version of the Snow Queen vs. Andersen version. The they could do all sorts of interesting stuff.

[kili]

Who lets a 12 year old purchase a bottle of red wine, anyway?

I assumed he just took it from Snow's appartment. Even if that wasn't his home and one might logically take things from one's home that are for communal use (Snow, Charming and Snow likely share wine), he has been known to abscond with Snow's stuff in the past (e.g. her credit card when she was cursed to only believe that she was his teacher).

[KingOfHearts]

Great episode!

Can someone explain the "Joan" reference? I have not seen Frozen

Anna talks to a painting of Joan Arc out of boredom during Do You Want to Build a Snowman. :)

kili, snow and charming must be super irresponsible then. First driving, now possible drinking. Haha.

Edited October 6, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[InsertWordHere]

I didn't like Grumpy's attitude because I remember him having some sort of rudimentary electrical knowledge when he blew the transformer in Dreamy.

[retrograde]

As it's not a spoiler, I guess this is the place to post the deleted scene from this ep that was on GMA this morning. I'm glad they cut this.

[ShadowFacts]

 

King George also seems like the sort who doesn't really care too much about the people in his kingdom so long as he gets his taxes. Even in our law-and-order world, protection rings can get a foothold.

George seemed like a pretty ruthless sort, and whether it was he or some other sovereign, I would think he would want to have that shepherd's hook and the money it brings in.  Even in modern-day rackets, there is usually some level of police/official corruption involved.  Can you imagine a ruler like Regina letting BoPeep exist? 

 

 

But the only thing that the hook seems to do is serve as a Lojack for people. It allows her to find people, so running wihtout paying her would be a mistake. It seems she uses her henchmen to rough you up or kill you. Without the henchmen, what good is the hook - you can find people in Storybrooke in the phone book. Like most protection rings, her schtick works because she keeps people afraid.

 

I think that hook is good for just what David used it for -- to find people who are not in the phone book.  Or objects.

[SilverShadow]

As it's not a spoiler, I guess this is the place to post the deleted scene from this ep that was on GMA this morning. I'm glad they cut this.

 

Me too. It totally undermines Mary Margaret's storyline as well as Henry's reunion with Regina at the end and serves no real purpose. Totally justified cut.

[KingOfHearts]

As it's not a spoiler, I guess this is the place to post the deleted scene from this ep that was on GMA this morning. I'm glad they cut this.

I have mixed feelings about that clip. It had a few things the episode needed, like Regina officially resigning as mayor, but her attitude was so rude.

[ShadowFacts]

I thought it was odd that Regina speaks of precious air conditioning, while sitting in front of a roaring fire.  Otherwise, Regina was acting like Regina.  That's her nature, cold and dismissive.

[DeLurker]

 

Hook could be catching on by simply surfing the web.

I'm picturing him trying to type with one hand and one hook - hee!  Using the hunt & peck method of typing, he'll go through a lot of keyboards.

 

I like Regina, although not everything they do with her, but I would really really love it if she had nothing at all to do with Anna being missing and with her recovery.

[Rumsy4]

Snow's delivery of "Who's this?" on seeing Elsa was abrupt and rude. Almost as though she was jealous to see her husband standing with a strange woman. Reminded me of her awkward hug with Princess Leia in the EF in the past. So unlike Snow.

[Dirtybubble]

I may be in the minority here but I just didn't like this episode.  Just a little Regina and Rumple, nah not liking it.  And Snow is mayor now because.....Regina doesn't want the job?  Umm ok.  And because she's mayor she is mayor she is also the town electrician?  Ummm ok.

 

 

[buffynut]

As it's not a spoiler, I guess this is the place to post the deleted scene from this ep that was on GMA this morning. I'm glad they cut this.

Could someone give a summary, as the video is not viewable in Canada.  Thanks.

[Rumsy4]

Could someone give a summary, as the video is not viewable in Canada.  Thanks.

 

Mary Margaret goes to see Regina (& breaks in) to find out if she caused the blackout, and asks her advise on how to fix it. Regina tells her that she didn't cause it, and that she's done being the Mayor and it's Snow's job now to be the leader, as she cast the second Curse. MM then sort of freaks out and wonders how she can juggle being a mom and mayor. Then Regina soulfully asks how Henry is doing, and that she only doesn't want to see Henry for now, and ends up by giving advice to check the backup generator. Snow tells her that even a temporary separation can be a long time for a kid. All in all, I'm glad they cut the scene. Snow bonding with Regina in the same episode where her daughter lay dying would have been too much for me to take, especially as we never saw her react to Emma at the end.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Rumsy4

[buffynut]

Thanks Rumsy4.

[Dirtybubble]

Snow's delivery of "Who's this?" on seeing Elsa was abrupt and rude. Almost as though she was jealous to see her husband standing with a strange woman.

I guess it did come across as a bit rude but seeing it from Snow's point of view.  She's just been thru a very stressful situation with the electricity and is the middle of nursing a baby so coming into her home and maybe a expecting a hey thanxs Snow she gets to see her husband with a woman she's never seen before in her home.....meh she's not perfect but her reaction is completely forgivable.

 

Oh and on a side note:  can all communication be done via a crow?!  BRILLIANT!  This is why I love Regina, while everyone is texting she goes old, old school and brings back the Raven!

[The Real Chon]

So we took that left at Albuquoikey and ended up in ... Narnia? Mmmkay.

And speaking of retcons, I played it back several times to be sure I heard it, but it seems we retconned Charming's twin brother right out of the mythos. He referred to children in the singular during his after-school special talk about the perils of drinking and carting.

[ShadowFacts]

David was in the dark about his twin brother until sometime after he got a haircut.

[Dani-Ellie]

I was always under the impression that Mom and Dad Charming sold James to Rumple as a baby. (Which would fit in nicely with Dad Charming's drinking, if it was a recent development ... it may have been all Charming knew, but what about Ruth?)

 

She's just been thru a very stressful situation with the electricity and is the middle of nursing a baby so coming into her home and maybe a expecting a hey thanxs Snow she gets to see her husband with a woman she's never seen before in her home.....meh she's not perfect but her reaction is completely forgivable.

 

And yet there was no reaction from her at all to arriving home to find her firstborn white as a ghost and piled in 700 blankets. Since she didn't know who Elsa was, she hadn't been filled in re: the ice cave adventures, so I would think her deathly pale and freezing cold daughter would take precedence over the strange woman in the apartment.

[MedievalGirl]

The deleted scene: A backup generator makes so much sense. I was watching with my resident engineer and the electrical plant really bugged him. LOL  We've been watching this show a long time and THAT bothered him. I also liked that Snow would take a baby to break into Regina's and the line "Welcome to public office." 

 

[Rumsy4]

It was sweet the way Emma clung to Hook. Their physical comfort-level with each other was evident, and a natural continuation of their interactions during the Time Travel adventure. Even there, Emma let Hook pull her close and comfort her. And now she is becoming more comfortable being demonstrative in front of others as well. And no one seemed to bat an eyelid at them nuzzling over by the chair. haha