S02.E01: Shadows

[Primetimer]

Agent Ward turned out to be a Hydra agent last season, but now he's eager to help out in any way he can. From jail.

Read the story

[ottoDbusdriver]

Am I only one that thinks its weird that everyone seems to be drinking beer at 'The Playground', while on the job  ?

 

The German soldier called Dr. Whitehall 'Herr Rheinhardt' at the Hydra compound.  If Whitehall has been in the custody of the SSR/SHIELD for all this time up until the events of the Winter soldier, why would he change his name ?

 

As far as the pants go, that's what tv tropes refers to as magic pants

 

I just wish they would be consistent with Creel's powers.  When he touches that block of wood, his pants don't turn to wood.
When Creel attacks Talbot and grabs that ball and chain, he absorbs the incredible power of gold-painted steel (which doesn't make any sense, shouldn't he have become just the surface layer that that he was touching which would have been gold paint).  When Creel gets put in the transparent cell, he is wearing blue scrubs (shirt and pants) and blue shoes, so I guess the shoes are magic as well.  When the guards discover that Creel has 'disappeared', the neatly folded shirt can be seen on the floor of the cell (so apparently NOT a magic shirt), but his pants and shoes are transparent like the rest of him.  When Creel reappears made of concrete, he's only wearing pants and shoes as he encounters Izzy.  When he turns to asphalt, his pants/shoes remain normal.

 

It was so blatantly obvious that the SUV crash was caused by explosive charges under the Yukon -- it flew over Creel, so there's no way it impacted him (despite the fake dent in the Yukon door).

 

This show needs to do a better job of disguising L.A. as parts of Virginia.  The SUV rollover takes place at the intersection of Bluff Creek Drive and Artisans Way, near the Westchester district of L.A.  All production needed to do was make up some phony street signs and post them, but apparently they are just too damn lazy.  Check Google Maps streetview for 12204 Bluff Creek Drive and you can see where they shot this scene.

Edited September 24, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[Hana]

No. They can't kill of Lucy Lawless' character after one episode after that much hype. Nope. Na-ah. I will live in the world of denial.

 

Apart from that, I actually enjoyed the episode, and the darker turn the show is taking. And May. There can never be enough of May just doing May stuff.

 

As for Ward, I really hate it when US shows don’t know when it’s time to let go of a character (or simply stay the course with her/him if they turned out to be bad gals/guys). Certain actions a character makes cannot remain consequences free no matter how said character feels about those actions afterwards. Ward killed dozens (if not hundreds) of people in cold blood. He knew exactly what he was doing. It doesn’t matter what he does in the future, how many times he says he is sorry, how many times he does something to prove his loyalty to the team, how many times he tries to kill himself or nearly dies saving somebody, the fact remains he killed all those people and for that he has to suffer consequences of imprisonment for the remainder of his life. It’s that simple. Whatever he does will not erase the numerous crimes he committed. There is no redeeming somebody after you’ve shown them kill three people point blank and then snicker about it with the bad guy they released. They went too far with him. Are we really supposed to cheer for him to find his goodness now, and his happiness with Skye? Really? If this was a fantasy show set in a fantasy land where different set of rules applied it’d be easier to swallow, but like this, in a scifi setting emulating our world, not so much. Eh, I’ll keep hoping they decide not to take that route with him, however slim the chances for that may be.

[Lady Calypso]

What's worse about Ward's redemption is that they want the audience to go 'aww, poor Ward, trying to make up for his mistakes'. But then we see FITZ HAVING A MENTAL BREAKDOWN. We all know why Fitz is the way he is right now and it's because of the man they're clearly trying to redeem. They even said in an interview today that the producers want the audience to have 'mixed emotions' with Ward and they want some sympathy with him. Right, good job right there, with Fitz's current mental state being quite less than ideal. Ward gets a redemption arc and Fitz gets to hallucinate his best friend while he deteriorates. It actually makes it worse for Ward to not only get a positive redemption arc, but the strong possibility of Ward/Skye happening. I can't see it happening this season at all. I don't even see them happening period. Skye would never get with someone like Ward, not now, not after what he's done. I don't mind crazy Ward and him believing that he's progressing with Skye. But I want Skye to remain very cold and detached from him. And now that we know for sure that Ward knows about Skye's father and hasn't told her anything yet, that makes it all the more worse for these two to become a couple.

[Sandman]

If the showrunners are being serious about the likelihood of evoking mixed emotions with Ward, they've catastrophically over-estimated the power of their writers or underestimated their audience, or both.

 

Frankly, I don't even believe Ward's attempts at suicide were genuine: Dude, so run at the wall that's MADE OF LASER BEAMS, if you're so remorseful! Does he have a booboo on his little headbone? Aw! We'll come back when you've sizzled at least half your face off, Mr. Amateur Hour. I'm fine with Skye never having anything to do with Ward again, at this point. But I think she's protesting too much. Any romantic relationship between them now should be a non-starter, but I fear the worst.

[DeLurker]

 

The mission succeeded, despite the mercs flipping out; a cloaked quinjet was taken. Was that May on the motorcycle, or Skye? I was thinking May and was hoping the bike would cloak as well!

I was wondering that myself.  I assumed Skye since May is a pilot, but couldn't figure out why you would take a bike when you've got a plane.  Details details...

 

In other news, Ming-Na Wen still looks amazing.  I love how freakin' hot she is without the obvious Hollywood treatment to make her "hot".

 

Lucy Lawless telling that guy to cut off her arm was B.A.D.A.S.S.  so Agent Hartley please don't be dead.

 

 

The grammar police who live in my head cringed when Skye said "for you and I."

Everyone knows it should have been "for I and you".

 

Please don't kill me.

 

ETA: 

Btw. Patton Oswald must be wetting himself being on this show. He seems like a complete fangirl when it comes to Marvel.

Next, the show should find a role for Chris Hardwick.

I was positively gleeful to see Patton Oswald again.  Chris Hardwick can visit too - have no idea if he can act, but I find him funny.

Edited September 24, 2014 by DeLurker

[Sarahastro]

All of these posts about how people don't want to see Ward redeemed are making me so happy.

 

 

If the showrunners are being serious about the likelihood of evoking mixed emotions with Ward, they've catastrophically over-estimated the power of their writers or underestimated their audience, or both.

 

I don't know if you spend any time on tumblr, but the mood over there is very different. There is a very loud minority (at least I hope they are in the minority) who are insistent that Ward is a sweet innocent angel, and the rest of the characters are horrible monsters for not welcoming him back with open arms.

[Spartan Girl]

I too am pissed off they killed off Lucy Lawlass, but it was awesome to see Peggy Carter in the beginning.  Now if only they'd give us Agent 13/Sharon, I'll be all set.

 

Poor poor Fitz.  I can't believe Simmons would just leave like that.  Hope it isn't permanent.  Yeah, I do not feel sorry for Ward at all and I don't want him to be redeemed.  Seeing Skye shoot him down just made me like her a little bit more.

[Lisin]

In other news, Ming-Na Wen still looks amazing.  I love how freakin' hot she is without the obvious Hollywood treatment to make her "hot".

 

Every time she does something ass kickingly awesome my husband pauses the show and points at her and yells "FIFTY!" because neither of us can believe she's 50... also she's the best. More May all the time!

 

FitzSimmons broke my heart too. I'd just be repeating everyone else but it was so sad! I think this was a really good season opener! 

[TV Anonymous]

What kind of military base that does not have hard barrier on its gates? And for such very important 0-8-4, what kind of crappy warehouse does the military put it in? Even evidence lockers in most TV police procedurals are much better than that.

 

It is strange if the show kills Lucretia only after her first appearance since her joining the show was quite talked about in the media. But hey, she was only a guest star. And I think if Enrico Colantoni can only have one-and-done role in The Mysteries of Laura, why can Lucy Lawless not?

 

Just to echo what has been said in this board, if Ward is able to redeem himself and become part of the team again, I am out. Likewise, if Ward becomes a villain that can not be defeated (Sylar in Heroes, Thor Gundersen in Hell on Wheels), I am also out.

[Julie23]

If the show runners were hoping we (the audience) would feel sorry for Ward, they certainly went about it all wrong. Not just all the killing and evilness he did for Hydra, but FITZ! Even if just for what he did to Fitz he should never, ever be redeemed.

[ChelseaNH]

the producers want the audience to have 'mixed emotions' with Ward and they want some sympathy with him

 

Well, he only killed guest stars and day players, and Fitz was only injured, not killed...  Of course, aside from all that, he's still Creepy Obsessed Stalker Guy.  But that worked out well for Angel and Spike, right?  Sooooo romantic.

 

I feel sorry for Ward the child, but not Ward the man.

[Wilowy]

So gratified to see all the Fitz love, and I do hope Simmons is working on something to help him - an implant of some kind, or some kind of trigger that would jump-start his synapses into healing mode... something? *sob* #ILOVEYOUFITZ

 

At the very least, they should get him his helper monkey now. 

 

/ducks

[BungalowSummer]

I'll take a hundred pep-talks and inspirational speeches from Coulson before I'll accept a single attempt to redeem Ward. If the showrunners believe they can walk a fine line of sympathetic horror in response to Ward's self-pity, they are grossly mistaken.

As dark and nihilistic as the season may go, the Marvel Universe is fundamentally a moral universe. The only acceptable fate for Ward after the crimes he willingly committed is death. The writers need to accept that in Ward's case, they can't have their cake and eat it too. The character ultimately must die. The most they can do is give him a meaningful death, perhaps saving Skye and the team from death as some partial payment for his sins.

Edited September 25, 2014 by BungalowSummer

[Dandesun]

 

I don't know if you spend any time on tumblr, but the mood over there is very different. There is a very loud minority (at least I hope they are in the minority) who are insistent that Ward is a sweet innocent angel, and the rest of the characters are horrible monsters for not welcoming him back with open arms.

 

The Loki fangurls can shut the hell up. I mean, it's the same thing with him... Loki's so special and misunderstood! So is Ward! Draco in Leather Pants! I have no use for that, personally. It's not that I don't understand the concept of loving a villainous character, I have a long history of that myself. (Magneto & Todd Manning are two examples of that.) And even if you look for the goodness in a broken character you can't forget the very very very wrong things that they've done. Redemption should not come easy, that's the whole point.

 

And I cannot stand the idea of Ward pulling out the bearded woobie face when Fitz is disintegrating before our eyes because of what Ward did to him!! And let me just say that Ward can't just save Fitz a time or two and have it all be magically okay. Unacceptable!

 

AoS is NOT fucking around, I'll give them that. To go from the euphoria of seeing Agent Carter, Dum Dum Dugan and Jim Morita at the beginning to the shock of Lucy Lawless having her arm hacked off (and then appearing to die in a collision with the Absorbing Man -- but I'm not going to be so quick to believe in a death like that in the Marvel Universe) and then the utter gut punch of what's going on with Fitz and Simmons.

 

I did not see that last bit coming.

 

Where is Simmons?! WHERE IS SHE?!

[locomoco]

When Creel attacks Talbot and grabs that ball and chain, he absorbs the incredible power of gold-painted steel (which doesn't make any sense, shouldn't he have become just the surface layer that that he was touching which would have been gold paint).

I was under the impression that it was brass... and I love that they found an opportunity to show Creel with his signature ball and chain.

 

When Creel gets put in the transparent cell, he is wearing blue scrubs (shirt and pants) and blue shoes, so I guess the shoes are magic as well.

Unstable molecules - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unstable_molecules

[FurryFury]

Well, he only killed guest stars and day players, and Fitz was only injured, not killed...  Of course, aside from all that, he's still Creepy Obsessed Stalker Guy.  But that worked out well for Angel and Spike, right?  Sooooo romantic.

 

Just don't compare Ward to Angel and Spike, please. They had really good built-in excuses. Well, at least Angel did, with Spike, it wasn't done well at all. Still, Ward killed all those people without any external compulsion and any good excuse, really. I don't see how he could be redeemed without extraordinarily good writing, which I haven't seen on AoS.

 

Anyway, I think it's too early to start panicking. Maybe it's the acting, but I didn't feel like the show was trying to truly sell me his redemption. I'd sooner expect him to double-cross them again after they (inevitably) let him out of his cage. Which would be stupid, so I really hope the excuse will be really, really good.

 

The Loki fangurls can shut the hell up. I mean, it's the same thing with him... Loki's so special and misunderstood! So is Ward! Draco in Leather Pants!

 

Loki's way more fun than Ward, though (and I actually like Ward. I think he's the most interesting character on the show). That's why I'm willing to cut him all kinds of slack and would probably watch him as a main character in a movie in a heartbeat (although I doubt it would happen). Anyway, I feel that Ward has a built-in expiration date. Probably season 2 finale. After that, it's either awful, rage-inducing redemption or villain decay.

[AlwaysWatching]

Obviously a Lucy Lawless spoiler.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/09/24/agents-shield-season2-spoilers/

 

Unbelievable. The shows I'm watching are dropping like flies.

[Sarahastro]

 

The Loki fangurls can shut the hell up. I mean, it's the same thing with him... Loki's so special and misunderstood! So is Ward! Draco in Leather Pants! I have no use for that, personally.

 

Totally agreed. And I checked out the Draco in Leather Pants trope page, and Grant Ward is the first example.

 

I just don't see how they can redeem him at this point. He did not seem remorseful at all. If he really wanted to help, he would have given Coulson the intel a long time ago instead of using it to force Skye to visit him. To me, everything in this episode screams Villain Ward not Woobie Ward.

 

I have mixed feelings about that interview with EW. OTOH I am super pissed that they brought on Lucy Lawless just to kill her off after one episode. (Also, it seems suspicious that she died after touching the 0-8-4 when we are told at the beginning of the episode that it has something to do with immortality. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.) But I do like that this big "make or break moment" wasn't a clear win. They got the cloaking technology, but a few people died, and they lost the 0-8-4, which is now in the hands of the Hydra (or at least on it's way to Hydra). The show is a lot more interesting when there are real stakes and sacrifices.

[thuganomics85]

Missed the premiere last night (damn commitments!), so I just caught it.  First reaction is obviously that Hartley's death better be a damn fake-out.  You don't cast Lucy Lawless, hype the shit out of her like they did, only to kill her off by the end of the episode.  You don't put down Xena like that!!  I hope some mysterious bullshit saves her, but I'm prepared for the worst.

 

Second, totally did not see Simmons being in Fitz's head coming.  That was a hell of a twist.  That said, it really seems out of character for the real Simmons to abandon him like that, so I hope they have a good explanation for that, or she is off doing something really, truly important to the cause.  And, she better not be separated for too long.  Simmons is the best and Elizabeth Henstridge is too awesome (and gorgeous), to be shown so little.

 

So, it seems like the plan right now is to have Ward locked in a cell, and basically be like SHIELD's version of Hannibal Lector, with Skye in the role of Clarice.  That's fine for now, but I really hope they aren't going the redemption route.  That time has long since past, and I rather he stay as a bad guy, but one who is only helping them out for now.  Especially since I still think Brett Dalton is stronger playing a crazy bad guy, then a generic action hero.

 

Speaking of Skye, I actually like this new version (Skye 2.0., I guess?)  Well, her looks did feel a bit too much like she was trying to be Melinda, but I like her with the snark toned down, and more harden.  She still has a few quips, but it's not all time.  Plus, she feels more like a regular member now, and not a special snowflake.  I hope they keep this up.  I actually always liked Chloe Bennett as Skye; it was always the writing that was fucking things up, so I hope they've learned.

 

While Coulson's speeches were as sappy as expected, I do like that he's more in a "boss" role, who sits behind the desk.  I always found it a bit ridiculous he would be out in the field last season, and I think this role makes more sense for him.

 

I swear, is Ming-Na getting even hotter each year?  Damn!  I love Melinda.

 

A few new folks, like Patton Oswalt 2.0., Henry Simmons, and that surviving merc.  I wonder what they will bring to the table.  That fact that the new merc is already a regular and BJ Britt isn't, makes me think something bad might be happening to Trip.

 

Fun seeing Talbot again, and I like him as a potential antagonist.  Speaking of antagonist, Evil Nazi Reed Diamond!!  Complete with a bad German accent!  I can't wait!

 

Since we're doing hallucinations now, I really do hope Ward starts seeing Garrett in his head, so I can get Bill Paxton's perfect shit-eating grin again, even if it's only one scene. 

 

Loved the cold opening, with Peggy Carter, Dum Dum, and Morita.  Can't wait for the Agent Carter series.  I hope Neal McDonough and Kenneth Choi make appearances in that as well.  But, Hayley Atwell just lights up the screen as Peggy.

 

Overall, a pretty good return.

[thuganomics85]

Missed the premiere last night (damn commitments!), so I just caught it.  First reaction is obviously that Hartley's death better be a damn fake-out.  You don't cast Lucy Lawless, hype the shit out of her like they did, only to kill her off by the end of the episode.  You don't put down Xena like that!!  I hope some mysterious bullshit saves her, but I'm prepared for the worst.

 

Second, totally did not see Simmons being in Fitz's head coming.  That was a hell of a twist.  That said, it really seems out of character for the real Simmons to abandon him like that, so I hope they have a good explanation for that, or she is off doing something really, truly important to the cause.  And, she better not be separated for too long.  Simmons is the best and Elizabeth Henstridge is too awesome (and gorgeous), to be shown so little.

 

So, it seems like the plan right now is to have Ward locked in a cell, and basically be like SHIELD's version of Hannibal Lector, with Skye in the role of Clarice.  That's fine for now, but I really hope they aren't going the redemption route.  That time has long since past, and I rather he stay as a bad guy, but one who is only helping them out for now.  Especially since I still think Brett Dalton is stronger playing a crazy bad guy, then a generic action hero.

 

Speaking of Skye, I actually like this new version (Skye 2.0., I guess?)  Well, her looks did feel a bit too much like she was trying to be Melinda, but I like her with the snark toned down, and more harden.  She still has a few quips, but it's not all time.  Plus, she feels more like a regular member now, and not a special snowflake.  I hope they keep this up.  I actually always liked Chloe Bennett as Skye; it was always the writing that was fucking things up, so I hope they've learned.

 

While Coulson's speeches were as sappy as expected, I do like that he's more in a "boss" role, who sits behind the desk.  I always found it a bit ridiculous he would be out in the field last season, and I think this role makes more sense for him.

 

I swear, is Ming-Na getting even hotter each year?  Damn!  I love Melinda.

 

A few new folks, like Patton Oswalt 2.0., Henry Simmons, and that surviving merc.  I wonder what they will bring to the table.  That fact that the new merc is already a regular and BJ Britt isn't, makes me think something bad might be happening to Trip.

 

Fun seeing Talbot again, and I like him as a potential antagonist.  Speaking of antagonist, Evil Nazi Reed Diamond!!  Complete with a bad German accent!  I can't wait!

 

Since we're doing hallucinations now, I really do hope Ward starts seeing Garrett in his head, so I can get Bill Paxton's perfect shit-eating grin again, even if it's only one scene. 

 

Loved the cold opening, with Peggy Carter, Dum Dum, and Morita.  Can't wait for the Agent Carter series.  I hope Neal McDonough and Kenneth Choi make appearances in that as well.  But, Hayley Atwell just lights up the screen as Peggy.

 

Overall, a pretty good return.

[XtremeOne1]

Well is better than the first half of the first season, so there's that...

 

Skye didn't have any moments of "SHe's a special snowflake" only Ward gave her that so +

May kicked butt and took names +

Fitz was sad but great this episode. He'll be the reason I'm staying put. +

SImmons left Fitz? Uh yeah, not her style at all. We've seen nothing but undying loyalty from Simmons until this point so -.

But even just a figment of Fitz's imagination Simmons is still my fav so +

Ward redeeming?  -

Skye shutting the "door" in Ward's face +

New characters? SUPER BLAND - 

- But seriously on this? Ward's at least interesting and fun to hate now(and should still as a character to hate or just be killed off...or both), but we've got bland stereotypical British Guy added to the cast. And now we have bland random black guy, and bland Tripp(I HATE the writing for this character. So many of his lines make me cringe. They go for suave but miss the mark so hard)

Interesting bad guys +

Coulson colder +

Patton Oswalt - (Sorry, he's a d-bag. Look at this twitter)

 

SO yeah more pluses than minuses, so I'll stick around.

[Traveller519]

I can forgive the Air Force Base stupidity with respect to Creel and the SHIELD inventory.

 

SHIELD was a multi-national intelligence organization that dealt with the fringe dangers out there. The US military doesn't know what any of the stuff is or what the powers of these people are (they had a 30 second run-in with Creel when he was apprehended) SHIELD's intelligence didn't automatically become part of their databases.

 

I enjoyed the show, obviously a lot of exposition for the coming season, but Skye's grown up about 5 years, some new characters to play with, and some more serious talent. I like having Coulson running things from the office, that way we don't need to see the ridiculous visuals of him getting out of a landing craft in his suit with a bullet proof vest over it.

[ottoDbusdriver]

SHIELD was a multi-national intelligence organization that dealt with the fringe dangers out there. The US military doesn't know what any of the stuff is or what the powers of these people are (they had a 30 second run-in with Creel when he was apprehended) SHIELD's intelligence didn't automatically become part of their databases.

 

But that's the thing that bothers me the most -- Black Widow released ALL of SHIELD's files to the world, the US Military should have files on everything SHIELD knew.  They should know all the people that were in the Fridge that escaped and what a lot of those items in the warehouse were.

Edited September 24, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[KirkB]

In the comics, Creel's powers actually WERE magic. Well, they came from Loki anyway. His clothes either changed with him or tore off depending on the artist. The ball and chain was actually enchanted the same way he was, he could use it to touch something and absorb it without having to touch it himself.

 

Speaking of Creel, I realized what he was planning as soon as they 'stopped' him with the tasers. He could have easily absorbed the electricity so I knew he must have been faking it and why.

 

Anyway, this was closer to what I was originally hoping for from the show. SHIELD was actually being (sort of) covert.

 

Skye was...well, mostly apart from Coulson she was able to be more of her own person and not his super special pet project. I did like that they had it emulating May. That was one of her better mini arcs last season too.

 

Bearded Ward in the cage is still...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

 

I was staggered by the reveal of Simmons being in Fitz's head. I did not say that coming.

 

LL's character character being dead or not depends on what place she might have in future stories and of course her availability. They did it this way so they are covered no matter what.

Edited September 24, 2014 by KirkB

[Guest Accused Dingo]

The show looks like it corrected some of the major flaws of early season 1. Special Sky has been toned down to her season arc storyline which i can deal with. The show has gotten darker which i always like. Plus the actiony stuff has a purpose now and not action for action sake.

The show will never be perfect or brilliant but it is fun and often clever. Thst is all i can ask for.

[HistoryGirl]

I am hoping that Simmons might have gone off to find Agent Weaver. In "Turn, Turn, Turn" right before Weaver's holo-call-thingy cut out, she said something about how Simmons knew how to find her.

 

Not much else to add except to say that like most people, I liked the darker tone, and I wish Coulson would stop with the sanctimonious speeches (and I like Coulson most of the time). Also if they redeem Ward, I will scream, but I don't see how they can at this point. Everything about him screams "creepy serial killer."

I agree about Simmons. I totally think she's with Weaver especially after the episode bio for episode 3.

While I wasn't surprised by Ghost!Simmons (see my post in the spoilers thread) Coulson's speech about Simmons leaving and Fitz having a mental break just killed me. It was so sad!!!! And Fitz telling Ghost!Simmons that she made him calm and confident and that he thought he could heal faster.... Guh!!! Heartbreaking. I'm looking forward to some great angsty interaction between FitzSimmons.

[frenchtoast]

I enjoyed it, and it seemed like they're keeping the momentum they're started at the end of last season, so that's encouraging. And while I'm not fond of the sanctimonious speeches Coulson was giving, I just watched Providence and Coulson losing it. His whole identity was as a SHIELD agent and it was taken away. But the motivation and character of someone who helps and protects people wasn't and he's hanging on to the slim shreds as best he can. Just like Fitz has illusory!Simmons, so Coulson has his speeches trying to help him figure out who he is and what he can do. At least, that's how I'm taking it because otherwise, shut up Coulson.

[MostlyC]

Like almost everyone, Fitz/Simmons broke my heart.  I hope she's off trying to find a cure.

 

And since I grew up with Angel and Buffy, I'm hoping for a cool redemption arc for Ward, and for some backstory about his breakdown- he certainly didn't look suicidal at the end of last season.  Also, the beard is a keeper.

 

Surprised that LL bit the bullet- although who knows, maybe she's playing possum like Hunter was.

 

Coulson, how I have missed you.

[tankgirl73]

Wow, Fitz. I think what's really interesting is not just the truth of his situation, or the fakeout they pulled on us the viewers. But it's *how well* they pulled off that fakeout.

I mean, it is *so obvious* in hindsight. Why was Simmons just walking around him and not doing any work? Not off interacting with other characters in *any other scenes*? Wouldn't they be talking to her about how she thinks Fitz is doing? Even that he asks her not to touch anything (and she doesn't). May doesn't talk to Simmons at all, look at her, nothing -- usually she'd be interacting with both of them. All of the clues were there.

So why isn't this forum full of posts saying "yawn, I totally saw that coming"? We're seasoned vets of TV trickery, aware of the tropes and sensitive to manipulation. And yet, all the posts are saying "whoa, they got me."

Well done, show, well done.

I think it's also interesting that Head!Simmons is also actually being helpful. She does provide him with the right word when he can't find it. So perhaps she's a manifestation of the part of his brain that's still working just fine -- showing that he *is* okay underneath it all, but there's a blockage of sorts that prevents him from getting that information to the outside.

I re-watched the bits with Fitz and Simmons and it's heart breaking. The bit where Simmons says "that shouldn't be too hard" and Fitz immediately echoes "that shouldn't be too hard" -- the first time I watched it, I loved that. How he exactly copied her tone and inflection, it was cute and sweet and funny. But then re-watching it with understanding... whoa.

I echo what someone else said, that when she left she must have touched him on the shoulder. So he keeps going back to that as an emotional as well as a physical touchstone.

And here's the crackpot theory: Simmons actually *is* in his head. Not just his imagination. But she implanted something in his shoulder and she's able to communicate with him in his head, to try to keep him going and heal him from the inside. That's where she went when she "left". But the others don't know that she's doing that, so they just see him broken.

And so sad, Coulson says "he's broken" and Fitz said "they're afraid I'm going to break". Ugh.

Ward is Evil and Skye knows it. Skye is getting badass. Liked it.

[Bruinsfan]

Knowing that Creel can absorb the properties of any material, they put him in a transparent box (WTF ?) and then he escapes.

On that point, many's the day that I'm unable to find a glass in my kitchen cabinets because as we all know, transparent = invisible. If they'd had Creel absorb his water or stew and drip out of the cell it at least would have made a little sense.

[Happywatcher]

What kind of military base that does not have hard barrier on its gates? And for such very important 0-8-4, what kind of crappy warehouse does the military put it in? Even evidence lockers in most TV police procedurals are much better than that.

 

We live in Alexandria (the less expensive part) and there are pop-up barriers and cameras everywhere in NOVA and the government parts of DC and Maryland. Everywhere you go except the ghetto parts of Anacostia and PG county there are plate scanners and cameras, and even there the government is getting better at watching. There are radars and missile emplacements everywhere already, and they are adding a tethered blimp radar to get better coverage.

 

The DEA and FDA buildings are better protected than that warehouse, much less all the actual bases. The Pentagon and all the related office complexes like the Mark Center have more cops with submachine guns and assault rifles than you can shake a stick at. Our neighbor is a Federal Protective Service Cop, and he has an upgraded take home SUV with an arms locker in it better equipped than a James Bond movie.

 

Hollywood really needs to step up the game if they want Arlington/Alexandria to look realistic.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Happyshooter

[Izeinwinter]

The hydra people who had the 084 originally believed it to hold the answer to death. So, yhea, Lucy will be back.

 

Also, Coulson is a colossal ass. He's operating with absolutely no legal remit, and if we are judging his actions by his results, well:

 

The only thing he needed to do to defuse this entire threat was to send a dossier on mister absorbo to the USG. Which Coulson's team actually stood there and pointed out! The cell he was in was perfectly designed to hold his 084 buttocks locked up for eternity, *if the guards knew what he was*. So "let the proper authorities deal with it" was 100% an option on the table. Instead, it's raid army base, steal shit time. 

 

Which appears to have gotten those guards killed, several of Coulson employees killed or wounded, mister absorbo loose, and oh yes, now hydra has the Obelisk. And for all those looses, his team gained.. a cloaked airplane, which Fitz would almost certainly have managed to build them sooner or later anyway. 

 

And the kicker is, it only didn't end in a total party kill because of writer fiat. 5 people raiding a secure installation like that and hanging around after the alarm sounds should end up with *all* of them dead or in custody 

 

Are we sure Coulson isn't hydra? Because he*s sure doing them lots of favors. 

Edited September 24, 2014 by Izeinwinter

[Dandesun]

 

 

All of the clues were there.

So why isn't this forum full of posts saying "yawn, I totally saw that coming"? We're seasoned vets of TV trickery, aware of the tropes and sensitive to manipulation. And yet, all the posts are saying "whoa, they got me."

Well done, show, well done.

 

You know what I think a part of it is? Emotional investment.

 

As sketchy as season 1 was, I have to say that the characters I responded to the most from jump were May and Fitz-Simmons. And I particularly liked the Fitz-Simmons team/friendship/bond. Not to mention that the episode where Ward dumps them into the ocean and they have to get out is utterly heart-breaking. Theirs was the bond I was most invested in -- whether as a romance or not, I just care about them so when I saw them again, seemingly both okay (for the most part) I was so relieved I didn't want to dig deeper.

 

And I should have... I've tried to avoid spoilers for the shows I really like but I did see something regarding Simmons with the words 'What has she become?' or 'What has happened to her?' -- something like that... and I put it out of my mind completely when I saw them both, together, interacting...  he expressing his frustrations to her, she helping him and being patient with the after effects.

 

So when we got to the end and Coulson talked about how Simmons was gone, fearing she was holding Fitz' progress back and that Fitz was 'broken' while we see him alone, then see him talking to her and touching her hand on his shoulder, and then see him alone again putting his hand on his shoulder when she's not there...

 

Damn.

 

Gut punch.

 

I cared enough to not see the signs.

 

So, yeah, well played, Show. You got that part right.

 

(And it is my fondness for FitzSimmons that makes me particularly unlikely to ever forgive Ward. This is all on him. No love.)

[Dusty]

Now that I've gotten over the HalluSimmons (I'm not) I wonder how aware Fitz is about it.  Is it a total breakdown and he really does think that Simmons is there with him?  Or is this his coping mechanism and he's John Nashing (movie version) his way to recovery? 

The more I think about it I find myself a little mad at Simmons for leaving.  I don't doubt that she's did what she thought was in Fitz's best interest but he just broke my cold, dead heart so much this episode!  Hopefully she is trying to find a way to scientifically help him but she didn't only abandon him.  She left the whole team and they probably could've really used her expertise this episode.  Saying all that, I do think when we learn where she's been and what she's been doing I can get over it.  I'm only a little mad.  I haven't read any spoilers but I cannot believe that she's off somewhere NOT helping them, even if she isn't with them.  I believe in Simmons.  More importantly, I believe in FitzSimmons!  They are the ones I care most about on the whole damn show.  Individually and together.  It just seems so wrong when they're not together.  The first seasons had a LOT of problems but I will give them credit.  They established and developed their relationship beautifully.

[ChelseaNH]

it only didn't end in a total party kill because of writer fiat

 

A part of the show that I (and apparently the writers) have always struggled with is the "crack operations team."

[tankgirl73]

Now that I've gotten over the HalluSimmons (I'm not) I wonder how aware Fitz is about it.  Is it a total breakdown and he really does think that Simmons is there with him?  Or is this his coping mechanism and he's John Nashing (movie version) his way to recovery?

 

 

Oh yeah, I meant to bring that up too.  When I rewatched the FitzSimmons scenes with understanding of what was really going on, the very first scene sort of stuck out -- when she's saying "this is where I would be telling you to do" some techy thing and then "Fitz can you even hear me?"

 

On first viewing, our impression is that she's reminding him of the kind of work he used to do, but he's so far gone that he actually doesn't hear her.  We're made to worry that he's close to a complete vegetable.  Our focus is on *him*.  And then he says "of course I can hear you" and he's frustrated because she's distracting him.  

 

As an audience, we're relieved.  THAT was the red herring, the idea that he was completely gone and even Simmons couldn't communicate with him.  But that's not true so he's basically fine.  I suspect that's also part of why we were fooled by the twist - we thought we had already 'survived' the trickery and we were so relieved that we became complacent.

 

ANYWAY, on rewatch, knowing she's not really there, my impression of the scene was completely different.  "This is where I WOULD tell you to do something" -- gee, that's an odd turn of phrase.  Like he's reminding himself of what she would say.  

 

So maybe he is actively trying to ignore her, because he knows she's not real and he's trying to get better.  But then he loses that moment of lucidity and goes back into hallucination.  Or maybe he's deliberately (if somewhat nutso-ly) using her as a coping mechanism, 'what would simmons do if she were here' and that enables him to remember the scientific processes he'd be using and the words he needs -- using the memory of her as a conduit to the part of his brain he can't access consciously right now.

 

Something like that.

[Wilowy]

I don't think that's necessarily nutso. If he knows that she's gone, and he's struggling, I think it would be very normal and comforting for him to imagine the WWSD scenarios. Maybe imagining her filling in the blanks for him is actually his own neural pathways healing themselves. 

 

It's a stretch, but hey... Marvel!

[JayKay]

Thinking back on Ward's Hannibal Lector scene with Skye, I don't have mixed emotions about him at all. He said the suicide attempts happened during a rough patch. So, what, he soldiered through that moral reflection stage, and now he's more resolutely evil than ever? I can't really feel sorry for him if I don't know whether or not he shook off the guilt and now uses his injuries as a tool of manipulation. Besides, if he actually gave a damn, he'd be willing to help out more than just Skye. Fie on Ward. And fie on his beard, too.

[Grammaeryn]

As someone who had a TBI at 24, with a nice chunk of my temporal lobe gone Fitz made me tear up with familiarity. I did not hallucinate friends. There came a point after 3 months of rehab, where recovery only occurs in your regular life. I was a shuffling slurring mess who cried all the time but living life really helped me. My memory is better than injury state but not what it was. Just an FYI from a survivor...

[mybabyaidan]

I was wondering that myself.  I assumed Skye since May is a pilot, but couldn't figure out why you would take a bike when you've got a plane.  Details details...

 

 

It was May on the bike, I am pretty sure.  She is on it again in the promo.  If I remember correctly, Tripp knows how to fly a plane.  I thought it was Skye on the bike at first too, just because of the piloting issue, than I remembered Tripp.

 

I am not quite sure how I feel about this episode yet.  I am not liking the team being so split up.

[Irishmaple]

Season 1 cleaned up nice towards the end but, having sat through the whole season, I wasn't sold on coming back for round two.  I'm also without cable at the moment which seemed to help make the decision for me because I wasn't sold on watching it online either.  Anyway, Marvel, and here I am.

 

It actually held together better than I expected.  I enjoyed it, particularly the Lucy Lawless bits.  I liked her and her team better on introduction than I did the regulars on their introduction last year.  May is as enjoyable as ever and Elizabeth Henstridge is still charming as Simmons, even an imaginary one.  Skye is 100% less annoying and Coulson has stopped telling me she's the greatest thing ever, though he's still a bit annoying.  I've always been indifferent to Fitz so while I was impressed with the storytelling gotcha of the reveal, the character continues to leave me unmoved.  I'd rather he had been the mole, TBH, because I liked Ward and was bummed when he was said mole.  I'm not thrilled about the redemption arc possibility but I do have some empathy for Ward in that I work with kids and know how easily they are influenced, and how difficult it is for many to shake off negative influences and stop trying to please people who do not have their best interests at heart.  Nevertheless he was pretty evil there at the end of last season.  I think the actor is having more fun as the Evil Ward than Agent Ward, which is probably great for him, but I feel like the character should have an expiration date because I don't see any way out of the corner they wrote him into.  I never liked Ward/Skye so if the writers keep backing away from that OTP I'll be thrilled.

[kitlee625]

Thinking back on Ward's Hannibal Lector scene with Skye, I don't have mixed emotions about him at all. He said the suicide attempts happened during a rough patch. So, what, he soldiered through that moral reflection stage, and now he's more resolutely evil than ever? I can't really feel sorry for him if I don't know whether or not he shook off the guilt and now uses his injuries as a tool of manipulation. Besides, if he actually gave a damn, he'd be willing to help out more than just Skye. Fie on Ward. And fie on his beard, too.

 

Personally I love his beard of evil. It's very "Darkest Timeline" from Community or "Mirror Universe" from Star Trek.

 

 

I was wondering that myself.  I assumed Skye since May is a pilot, but couldn't figure out why you would take a bike when you've got a plane.  Details details...

 

May seemed to be providing cover for Skye and Trip while they ran to steal the Quinjet. Of course I'm sure this was so that next episode she can ride around after the bad guys on a motorcycle looking awesome, but hey, I'm not complaining.

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

I'm halfway through the show and it feels like a cartoon. I normally don't judge shows by physical appearances, but nothing about this premiere told me I should take it seriously. I know it is based on comic books, but I don't think it is supposed to be as laughingly hysterical as it is. Ward is a freaking caricature. He's hot, but a joke. Skye is trying too hard to imitate May and it is a joke. Talbot... no words. 

 

FitzSimmons broke my heart. 

 

The rest couldn't hold my attention. The end.

[Mybrainhurts]

This show frustrates me so much because I keep thinking it could be much better than it is.  There were a few things I liked about the episode--as a comic nerd, I loved Creel with the ball and chain since that is classic Absorbing Man (I was glad that he didn't have much dialogue either; these writers really have a tin ear for dialogue and Creel's silence meant I didn't hate him), May was awesome as always and I loved Koenig mouthing "Really?!?!?" when Coulson was going on as Talbot.  I liked Lucy Lawless' character--too bad it's seems like a one and done for her.

 

I hated what they did with Fitz and Simmons simply because I don't think Simmons would have left Fitz in that state.  I hated the Ward/Skye scene because the writers keep thinking that we should feel sorry for Ward and I just can't because he's a murdering bastard.  (I must admit, and I'm not the biggest Skye fan here so it's hard for me to say this, she did handle Ward pretty well but I'm thinking that's going to change soon enough given all the love for Ward that the showrunners seem to have).  And I HATED, HATED the last fifteen minutes of the show--that was some of the worst writing I have ever seen.  They only had two tasks--get the Obelisk and get a Quinjet.  They let the Obelisk go for no real reason (why let Lucy Lawless and her crew leave--what hospital can do anything to save her at that point?  At least keep them with you so you can deliver both items! ) so the bad guys now have an alien object that no one knows anything about.  Why was getting the Quinjet a bigger priority than the Obelisk?  It's stupidity like that that makes me question why I watch this show.  The writers come up with ideas that they want to happen but they have a poor way of implementing them so the characters look crazy or stupid.

[Guest Accused Dingo]

I hated what they did with Fitz and Simmons simply because I don't think Simmons would have left Fitz in that state

 

 

But has she?  One of the Simmons major story arcs was her developing friendship with Sky.  It was enough of a friendship that she felt genuinely betrayed when Sky got caught hacking them but later started to learn from Sky's "bad girl" behavior.  It is possible that she left like Coulson said to "help" Fitz but not quite in the way Coulson thinks.    

 

Plus having her gone adds drama.  I mean really....we were (along with Ward) introduced to them as FitzSimmons and more often then not they were together.  It was rare for them to have scenes apart.  There were a fewL  Simmons doing the the train thing with Coulson and Fitz with his bromance with Ward.  Besides that the two were together a lot so it is easy to see the FitzSimmons shippers point.  I don't think she will be gone forever.  I think there is a reason for her absence.  

 

<------Edited because my eyesight is horrible and I need a beta for these posts  

Edited September 25, 2014 by Accused Dingo

[benteen]

I'm hoping Simmons is just going around looking for a cure.  She wouldn't abandon someone she loved like Fitz and she owes it to him after saving her life.

[kitlee625]

But has she?  One of the Simmons major story arcs was her developing friendship with Sky.  It was enough of a friendship that she felt genuinely betrayed when Sky got caught hacking them but later started to learn from Sky's "bad girl" behavior.  It is possible that she left like Coulson said to "help" Fitz but not quite in the way Coulson thinks.    

 

Plus having her gone adds drama.  I mean really....we were (along with Ward) introduced to them as FirzSimmons and more often then not they were together.  It was rare for them to have scenes apart.  There were a few.  Simmons doing the the train thing with Coulson and Ftiz with his bromance with Ward.  Besides that the two were together a lot so it is easy to see the FitzSimmons shippers point.  I don't think she will be gone forever.  I think there is a reason for her absence.  

 

Absolutely. She left because she thought it would be better for Fitz. Sound familiar? Like when May left Providence base because Coulson didn't want her there, and she wound up finding out more about T.A.H.I.T.I. I doubt that she's hanging around at the mall getting pedicures now. Their identities were wiped.

 

I am really hoping that she went to find Agent Weaver. Weaver said "you know where to find me" in Turn, Turn, Turn. Plus we know that Weaver has a lot of scientific knowledge (I believe biochem like Simmons) that would be helpful to new S.H.I.E.L.D. and to Fitz.

 

Edit: Also pretty sure that Simmons saved Fitz's life just as much as Fitz saved Simmons' life.

Edited September 25, 2014 by kitlee625

[Grammaeryn]

Shallow note - Chloe isn't doing the open fish mouth thing anymore but rocks beaver teeth when she shoots a gun. Pew! Pew! Pew!

[quarks]

Speaking for just me, if the idea of having Ward in jail with an evil beard talking about his pathetic suicide attempts was meant to make me feel sorry for him, it failed.