Spoiler, Speculation and Social Media

[TurtlePower]

7 hours ago, Tuxcat said:

So on reddit, someone posted a screenshot allegedly from Gwen about the "abuse" from Meri. Gwen, who on YouTube has expressed a closeness with Meri said, 

she was scary as a kid but
she never attacked me and i
only saw her violent once.
that was all a long time ago

JMO. As someone trained to analyze statements, it’s the words she uses that make me suspicious, “she never attacked me”. She uses the word “attacked” as if it was known she did that to someone else. She said Meri was “scary”.  Then there’s Maddie’s claims as well. 

I recall Paedon saying it was “a few of us kids” Meri had it in for. A few, out of however many there are. So perhaps it was known who she liked to go after.

It at least warrants questioning. Gwen’s choice of words raises red flags to me — it obviously doesn’t convict anyone but a bookmark is placed for further lines of questioning. 

[RazzleberryPie]

10 hours ago, General Days said:

The problem is Paedon also credits Robin with possibly saving several of their lives. So either there was horrendous, clear-cut abuse, to which Kody, Janelle, and Christine turned a blind eye, or Paedon is full of shit and is happy to leave skid marks on not only Meri, but his other parents, too.

It could be both. Abuse and skid marks, another knife to the kidney, even. These people are all overly dramatic.

[GeeGolly]

I didn't watch the video - how did the subject of Meri come up? Was it kind of a natural evolution of the interview/conversation? Did the host bring it up? Did Paedon bring it up? Did the host push Paedon into the abuse topic?

I ask because Paedon seems a wee bit immature with a low current of anger, which makes me wonder if he was more giving the host what the host wanted to hear. Like if the host was reading Paedon, it seems to me it wouldn't take much to lead Paedon into some podcast worthy ranting.

[Libby]

Gwen, who likes Meri and hates Paedon verified that Paedon didn't pull his accusations out of the air.

Gwen said Meri was scary and that she hit Mykelti. Maddie said she was a monster and called her abusive. Paedon strongly implied abuse.

Based on Gwen, Maddie, and Paedon's comments, I think it's clear that Meri's behavior toward some of the kids was problematic.

Whether her behavior should be termed "abuse" is a matter of opinion.

[zenme]

Christine and Janelle both seem very mellow or lax with discipline. I can imagine that any version of being reprimanded beyond that might be very upsetting or devastating for someone not used to that. That being said, Paedon said the discipline was beyond verbal, so I’m very curious as to what he means. 

[Meow Mix]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I didn't watch the video - how did the subject of Meri come up? Was it kind of a natural evolution of the interview/conversation? Did the host bring it up? Did Paedon bring it up? Did the host push Paedon into the abuse topic?

I ask because Paedon seems a wee bit immature with a low current of anger, which makes me wonder if he was more giving the host what the host wanted to hear. Like if the host was reading Paedon, it seems to me it wouldn't take much to lead Paedon into some podcast worthy ranting.

This is what I am wondering as well.  As I said before, I won't give the guy doing the interviewing a click because he is very problematic, but I could easily see Paedon feeling comfortable with another guy and saying all sorts of stuff without thinking it through.  Once again, I do believe Meri took her resentment out on some of the kids which is yet another wrong choice from her.  But, I think Paedon was basking in the spotlight and things got out of hand.  The fact that he canceled an appearance on another podcast lends weight to that assumption.

ETA: What in the world is JO's problem?  This obsession is getting downright creepy.  While I think Meri played up the victim narrative with the catfish, this person does seem to have an unhealthy obsession with the family.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Meow Mix

[Ms.Lulu]

JY (host)directly asked about it. And some questions came in from viewers.

JY asked all the questions we wondered about:

1) Was Meri abrasive and mean--yes plus more (this whole topic)

2) Why they moved to Flagstaff--confirmation it was because Robyn wanted to follow Dayton

3) How often is there water in prairie plague pond--Paedon saw it once

4) Has he ever seen Robyn cry real tears--no, not once

5) Is Robyn the favorite--yes, the kids knew this from Las Vegas days

6) What has Robyn given up to be part of this family--her debt and tiny home

The only one he couldn't answer was, 'What does the nanny do?'

It was three hours long, Paedon clearly enjoyed himself, and seemed to answer candidly.

He also said that once the show is completely over he will share more details on Meri, but he recognizes that it is a source of income for the parents and several of his siblings, so he needs to wait so the show is not cancelled.

 

[Tuxcat]

Paedon had said before about Robyn's crying "I believe the reddit consensus is that there are no actual tears." He knows exactly what to confirm and what to say. Its not shocking that he confirmed "everything we (reddit) suspected!" And yes he was smiling and laughing when talking about the situation with Meri as he bantered with the hosts.

Regarding Gwen's comments, she actually did not say that Meri hit Mykelti. She said she "got physical once." In a small LDS offshoot closeted community in Utah, the use of physical discipline is likely common and accepted. We know Kody spanked. And we know Meri worked with At Risk youth - which in Utah may have like those camps we read about. Firm, strict, rigid discipline and even sometimes abusive. But this may explain Paeodn's version that it was savior Robyn who first "recognized" it as wrong??

It's shocking but according to varying state laws, you can spank, slap and even hit a child so long as it does not cause injury or leave any bruises or marks beyond twenty four hours. I hate it, but it's true. 

I suspect that Meri was very rigid and a harsh disciplinarian. I can believe she got physical and lost her sh*t and yelled a lot. I am unsure if that qualifies as abuse and none of us can actually know until all the vague language stops.

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Tuxcat

[laurakaye]

Wow, you don't read the threads for three days and come back to this!

As far as Paedon's accusations against Meri and the accountability of the other adults (specifically his own mother), I can unfortunately see how an overwhelmed Christine, essentially raising a dozen or so kids as best she could, would be afraid to speak out against Kody's then-favorite wife if she felt that Meri was punishing her kids harshly.  Also, sadly, with Christine having been raised in polygamy, she might not have seen Meri's behavior as necessarily wrong or if she did, she felt she couldn't do anything about it.

And if this Meri stuff is true, it kind of sheds a different light on why Christine was the over-the-top whispery keep sweet wife, and Janelle was quiet to the point of barely speaking in the early seasons.  If both women had to pacify not only Kody but Meri too at the cost of the treatment of their children, that's too hard to even think about.

Maybe Robyn coming into the family shifted the balance of power away from Meri enough that Meri could no longer loom unchecked over the kids with her sense of being HBIC.  In that respect, I can see where Paedon said that Robyn "saved their lives."  But he might have traded that safety for basically losing any attention from his dad that he may have gotten prior to Robyn.

In the end, I don't have a clue what's real or not but IMO, Paedon had a pretty crappy childhood and now, perhaps with his mom and Janelle out from under Kody's patriarchy (LOL) he's finally ready to speak out about it.

Edited January 16, 2023 by laurakaye

[Spisee Hotsos]

17 hours ago, Irate Panda said:

Christine’s Original Quote: "I made a promise to Kody and everybody else that I would stay in Sister Wives as long as we have the show just to be fair," she told ET back in October. "It's what our family's been doing for so long. I feel like it would be disloyal if I decided to not be part of the show."

Irate Panda translates Christine’s Original Quote:  “I need the show to shill my mlm schemes and everybody hates Kody and Robyn, so I’m cool with still filming.”

I would add to this:  “Since I'm completely unskilled and uneducated I can't get a job anywhere else, so I need the show to shill my mlm schemes, plus everybody hates Kody and Robyn, and why would I let those assholes make TLC money and not get any for myself, so I’m cool with still filming.” 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Thistle Howl

[Cherylyn]

I hope there will be more information on this at some point. Once the Brown kids became adults they are free to spill the beans. However, I’m not much on cryptic conversations, why not just say what exactly transpired, if Meri was abusive, then they should just describe the abuse. By not elaborating it just leaves the whole matter up for speculation and gossip.  I believe the kids but there needs to be more in-depth explanations about it. 
Meri is not a likable person. I liked the way the family therapist described it as her seeing things as black or white, that she didn’t know she was being too aggressive and abrasive…yeah, that is putting it soooo nicely.

 

 

 

 

[zamp33]

24 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

I hope there will be more information on this at some point. Once the Brown kids became adults they are free to spill the beans. However, I’m not much on cryptic conversations, why not just say what exactly transpired, if Meri was abusive, then they should just describe the abuse. By not elaborating it just leaves the whole matter up for speculation and gossip.  I believe the kids but there needs to be more in-depth explanations about it. 
Meri is not a likable person. I liked the way the family therapist described it as her seeing things as black or white, that she didn’t know she was being too aggressive and abrasive…yeah, that is putting it soooo nicely.

 

 

 

 

Yes I agree everything is so vague. I do recall Kody saying many times in certain episodes that Meri had to repair her relationship with the "older" kids, so that indicates something happened - again vague and it is easy to speculate - but even thought Gwen indicated that "she only saw Meri get violent once" - verbal, psychological and/or emotional abuse could have also been happening.  I am sure more will continue to trickle out.

Meri having the same grocery money to feed one child, vs Christine and Janelle having to feed 6 children indicated to me that she really did not care about the big family and had no empathy or feelings about the other kids getting so much less than her one and the others doing without.  This was not just about material things (remember Leon had a king sized bed in Lehi and the other kids were squished into bunk beds) but food and other basic necessities. That always made me mad - no she did not choose to have only one child, but to be allotted the same amount for food and housing as moms who had 6 children, and they were one family, was so unfair and selfish. 

[Roslyn]

I actually made it through the entire 3 hours of Paedon's interview. Transcribing pottery glaze recipes from little notecards to a word document helped keep me busy while I listened.

One story that hasn't been noted was at the very very end and it stood out to me. First Paedon noted he was angry at Kody for being an ass as his Grandma's funeral (Janelle's mum). I guess Kody got up to speak and made it all about himself and his father Winn, and said nothing about Janelle's mother (I forget her name).

Then he told the story behind the "Kody wanted TLC to write a contract to prevent the kids from speaking badly about him on platforms". Paedon was angry at Kody about the funeral, and then out of the blue Kody calls him to ask how he is doing and they have a pleasant conversation.  Paedon softens his stance on his dad and begins to think that maybe, just maybe Kody does care and is just truly overwhelmed etc etc.

He at some point after that calls Christine and mentions to her that Kody called him.  Christine blows up with "OH did he call to tell you about our fight?" and then she tells Paedon that she had been fighting with Kody over him trying to get the producers to draw up paperwork that meant that TLC could sue the kids for saying bad things about Kody publicly.  Not Kody suing his own children, but the more $$powerful$$ network. And then Paedon also discovered that Kody had made the same call to ALL of his siblings to soften them up to him.  Not because he actually cared...but because he was trying to make them think he cared to not speak out against him.

Also to be noted is that Paedon was very snotty about Gwen. Near the end he said that he gets along with everyone...but Gwen hates him. The other people who were participating in the video were all "coo coo" to Paedon and going on about how "some people just need to grow up and understand being a kid is hard and she will come around and they will make up" etc etc. At no time did Paedon state why Gwen hated him. He did not explain (imo) because he was getting the "oh...poor you" sympathy from the group, and he never mentioned that his violence of punching his younger sister in the face when he was 16 is what prompted her feelings.  Gwen has also said that his bullying was "relentless", so it was more than just one incident.

Paedon very much likes the attention, and he loves, loves, loves to talk about his interactions of hitting on the strippers who work at the strip club that he is a bouncer at... 🙄

[Tuxcat]

27 minutes ago, zamp33 said:

Meri having the same grocery money to feed one child, vs Christine and Janelle having to feed 6 children indicated to me that she really did not care about the big family and had no empathy or feelings about the other kids getting so much less than her one and the others doing without. 

I go back and forth on this all the time. Absolutely there should have been different categories within their budget. But they seemingly never thought to itemize and then distribute? They just did one lump sum to each wife. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I blame the whole family for that. Meri shouldn't get "less" (in terms of assets) but she didn't the same grocery/clothing money for one child. 

Secondly, I don't want to tell anyone how many kids they should have, but there is a piece of me that really faults this family for having so many children, so quickly, on such a limited income. Completely irresponsible. If I don't have the resources to properly care for my family, I do not get pregnant again and again. I realize this is what the design of polygamy intends - wives competing to have babies and thus more influence. Children are their currency.

Lastly I find the timing to be fascinating. We know Meri suffered years of infertility and then had a miscarriage when Leon was 12 - so 2007 or so. We know Christine also had a miscarriage that caused her to bleed a lot before she was pregnant with Truly. In the book, Christine says she had that argument with Meri about Meri's harsh treatment a year before she was pregnant with Truly - which means about 2008.  I have to wonder if Meri became unhinged after her own miscarriage - AND I wonder if she had more parental responsibility when Christine was recovering? Just more food for thought.

[OldWiseOne]

On 1/15/2023 at 11:39 AM, Celia Rubenstein said:

Agreed.  Not one single solitary person on the face of earth except for JO has any interest in perpetuating the myth that "Sam Cooper" really exists and Meri was hooking up with him.   Everyone else knows it is transparent bullshit and wouldn't include it in their efforts to trash Meri because it destroys any credibility they might have. 

The TikTok account isn't alleging that Sam Cooper exists, but rather that Meri was knowingly having a relationship with JO and after the fact tried to claim that JO catfished her by pretending to be a man.

[Kellyee]

Quote

Left unsaid "plus I could use the money..."

Christine doesn't need the money from the show as much as she needs the public exposure from the show that drives people to her MLM businesses. Christine didn't stay on Sister Wives "just to be fair". 

I'm curious how the show will continue when the Browns are all living completely separate lives and don't appear to be talking to each other. Will it just be a show about 4 separate households? That could get really boring. 

 

 

 

[xwordfanatik]

4 minutes ago, OldWiseOne said:

The TikTok account isn't alleging that Sam Cooper exists, but rather that Meri was knowingly having a relationship with JO and after the fact tried to claim that JO catfished her by pretending to be a man.

 

Is this what JO does these days?  I read that her notbatshitcrazyyet* site was no longer there.  

*That's what I call it.  I believe it was notbatmanyet.  And, I DO think she is batshit crazy.  Pathetic.

 

[Cetacean]

3 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

And, I DO think she is batshit crazy.  Pathetic.

I can't believe she's not in jail.  Weren't she and her mother arrested for fleecing some elderly person out of her savings?

[xwordfanatik]

48 minutes ago, Cetacean said:

I can't believe she's not in jail.  Weren't she and her mother arrested for fleecing some elderly person out of her savings?

I remember seeing their mug shots, somewhere.  A couple of thieves, on top of everything else.  

[Celia Rubenstein]

18 minutes ago, OldWiseOne said:

The TikTok account isn't alleging that Sam Cooper exists, but rather that Meri was knowingly having a relationship with JO and after the fact tried to claim that JO catfished her by pretending to be a man.

Yes, there is a new video posted that suggests this.  Unfortunately (conveniently) JO took down the original video that mentions Meri's "partner outside her marriage" going public because Meri wouldn't leave Kody, causing Meri to "concoct" a story about being catfished to cover.   

My initial take is that it would seem to have been a referene to Sam. That is who went public, if anyone did.  Website, twitter, a book ... 

It can't be JO - she has always denied any involvement in anything to do with any of this.  She has never gone "public" about having a relationship with Meri that I am aware of.  Why concoct a catfishing story to conceal a relationship with JO that JO has never publically referenced?

Are they suggesting JO went public as "Sam" for some reason?   Okay.  But the new video says Meri and company made Sam up, turns out.  Sam was totally a Brown family fiction.  So who is the person Meri was in a relationship with who went public that was mentioned in the old video?  The person Meri had to make up the catfishing story to cover up?   POOF, the video is gone and now we have a new version that suggests a different, more salacious theory being floated around is actually the truth.  

This just gets more and more ridiculous.   I honestly think JO is re-tooling her story in response to the comments she is getting.  Everyone was getting lit up about there being a lesbian affair so now that is the direction she's headed. 

What is really ridiculous is that according to the new video, "Sam" was a made up character and all his activities were part of a smokescreen by Meri and others to save face.  Yeah, all this time, it wasn't JO pretending to be Sam, it was Meri and ? her extensive team of assistants?  Recording herself over months and months leaving embarrassing voice mails pleading with Sam to love her, taking sad pictures of her and her banana, scratching his name into her flesh, all so she could release the humiliating messages and pictures HERSELF and make a complete fool out of herself in the eyes of the world.  It's preposterous. 

I do note how it is funny how the ever evolving tale always manages to exonerate JO completely.  She never was Sam.  Or Lindsey.  Or any of the hundreds of sock puppets.  She didn't catfish anybody.  The poor dear.  Now she is the wounded, rejected lover, lol that's a HOOT! 

 

[MMEButterfly]

On 1/15/2023 at 1:39 PM, Celia Rubenstein said:

Agreed.  Not one single solitary person on the face of earth except for JO has any interest in perpetuating the myth that "Sam Cooper" really exists and Meri was hooking up with him.   Everyone else knows it is transparent bullshit and wouldn't include it in their efforts to trash Meri because it destroys any credibility they might have.  

Damn nutter is back at it.   

 

 

 

I'm a little lost. Who is JO, please?

[Elizzikra]

Quote

to be allotted the same amount for food and housing as moms who had 6 children

Housing makes a little more sense to me - from the perspective that if the entire family wasn't going to share one big house, it would make sense to have the houses close together. For the most part, houses within any given neighborhood are usually within the same price range, so if housing costs were allotted per capita, Meri would always have been relegated to a home further from the rest of the family. For the scenario of each wife having her own separate house, I always thought that Vegas was perfect. 

Food, clothing and other consumables - no. I don't get that at all - that seems much more like it could and should have been scaleable based at least on household size and perhaps ages of children (way cheaper to feed 6 five year olds than 6 teenagers). 

[Celia Rubenstein]

13 minutes ago, MMEButterfly said:

I'm a little lost. Who is JO, please?

JO are the initials of the woman who it is said catfished Meri (and many others), pretending to be a gorgeous young millionaire online 

[Celia Rubenstein]

Wow, it's really getting intense over there on the youtube! 

Now the story is that Meri was involved with someone from the FLDS ( Sam Bateman who was just arrested?  Sam "Bateman" ??  "Batman? hmmm .... lol)  The embarrassing voicemails that were released were intentionally done in order to create an alternative "Sam" because nobody was supposed to know  Meri was involved with Sam Bateman.  The FLDS and scads of other people were all involved because the FLDS didn't want to draw attention to themselves in 2014-15 because?  They suck?  And the Browns didn't want anyone to know for obvious reasons. 

Supposedly, the voicemails that were released were done in a way meant to make Meri look bad so they would be believable, yet be sympathetic and interesting enough that the show would continue.  

They are implying the FLDS hired JO to conduct operations, being an accomplished online scammer.  They "researched" her lol ... So it wasn't just that a story about a catfish was "concocted" ... the FLDS and the Browns supposedly set up a whole operation to create a fake catfish and blah blah blah just to cover up for Meri being involved with some pervert from the FLDS.

At least I think that is what they are saying.  The videos are crap quality and intentionally vague.  Is it okay to link them here this way? 

 

 

[TurtlePower]

50 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Wow, it's really getting intense over there on the youtube! 

Now the story is that Meri was involved with someone from the FLDS ( Sam Bateman who was just arrested?  Sam "Bateman" ??  "Batman? hmmm .... lol)  The embarrassing voicemails that were released were intentionally done in order to create an alternative "Sam" because nobody was supposed to know  Meri was involved with Sam Bateman.  The FLDS and scads of other people were all involved because the FLDS didn't want to draw attention to themselves in 2014-15 because?  They suck?  And the Browns didn't want anyone to know for obvious reasons. 

Supposedly, the voicemails that were released were done in a way meant to make Meri look bad so they would be believable, yet be sympathetic and interesting enough that the show would continue.  

They are implying the FLDS hired JO to conduct operations, being an accomplished online scammer.  They "researched" her lol ... So it wasn't just that a story about a catfish was "concocted" ... the FLDS and the Browns supposedly set up a whole operation to create a fake catfish and blah blah blah just to cover up for Meri being involved with some pervert from the FLDS.

At least I think that is what they are saying.  The videos are crap quality and intentionally vague.  Is it okay to link them here this way? 

 

 

I seem to remember Meri saying Sam Cooper, (not Sam Bateman) in at least one of the voicemails. Don’t have time to listen to em all, but I found a new source for all the voicemails (Bossy Pants on YouTube)— here’s one where she says Sam Cooper: 

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by TurtlePower

[Celia Rubenstein]

The messages to "Sam Cooper" are the ones she supposedly cooked up and put out there to keep people from finding out about her involvement with Sam Bateman.   In case her messages to Sam Bateman became public, she would have been able to deny he was the Sam she was talking to.  Sam Cooper was her  cover story, basically.

Does this make any sense to anyone?  lol

Curiously, in another video they say Meri chose the name "Sam" for her catfish just because she liked the name Samuel.  

It's all a bunch of bullshit if you ask me.  But crazy people fascinate me, what can I say?

[General Days]

I just watched those on the Toxicitea TikTok. They sound like ridiculous conspiracy theory stuff, not least of all, because the Browns aren't FLDS. They are/were AUB.

I think it's JO running that account.

Edited January 17, 2023 by General Days

[TurtlePower]

14 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

The messages to "Sam Cooper" are the ones she supposedly cooked up and put out there to keep people from finding out about her involvement with Sam Bateman.   In case her messages to Sam Bateman became public, she would have been able to deny he was the Sam she was talking to.  Sam Cooper was her  cover story, basically.

Does this make any sense to anyone?  lol

Curiously, in another video they say Meri chose the name "Sam" for her catfish just because she liked the name Samuel.  

It's all a bunch of bullshit if you ask me.  But crazy people fascinate me, what can I say?

Yeah that doesn’t make any sense. Whoever concocted THAT story didn’t realise that Sam Cooper (JO) was a suspected catfish already. One that Leon and others advised her not to get involved with. Sam Cooper definitely wasn’t concocted by the Browns.

If it’s JO you’d think she’d do a better job with her events and timeline. I also don’t see Meri mumbling over 200 voicemails for the purpose of a cover-up. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by TurtlePower

[RazzleberryPie]

32 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

It's all a bunch of bullshit if you ask me.  But crazy people fascinate me, what can I say?

Yeah, these people and their sense of inflated importance is mind boggling and laughable. I really do not think Meri has shown us any redeemable qualities over the years, but geez, she’s a boring frumpy housewife who had an online affair. She isn’t Meghan Markle disrupting the Royal Family. Why would anybody care enough to concoct this elaborate scheme and why do they really think anyone outside their family cares very much. It would’ve made higher ratings and been more interesting If she actually left and Kody went looking for a replacement wife. 

[Cetacean]

29 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Why would anybody care enough to concoct this elaborate scheme and why do they really think anyone outside their family cares very much.

Well, obviously people do care.  Every since Paedon dumped his load of nebulous BS on a seedy podcast the internet has blown up with one ridiculous story after another.  JO jumped right in to take advantage and dump fuel on the fire.

And let's face it, posting here is evidence that we are all culpable of perpetuating it with our reporting of what we've seen and heard.

[Celia Rubenstein]

[Libby]

If Paedon was the only Brown to accuse Meri in a nebulous way, I might tend to think it was BS. However he wasn't.

Maddie, Gwen, Christine, Janelle, and Kody have also talked about Meri's toxic behavior in the early years.

I believe that her behavior must have been horrible.

Apparently she's posting on social media like absolutely nothing happened over the last few days. I just hope that she doesn't get away with trying to just let this blow over.

I think that it's time for Meri to pay for her bad behavior toward the rest of the family.

At some point, it comes time to pay the piper.

I hope that people stop buying her garbage clothes and that TLC fires her from the show.

I do not wish well for Meri.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Libby

[Sandy W]

11 minutes ago, Libby said:

If Paedon was the only Brown to accuse Meri in a nebulous way, I might tend to think it was BS. However he wasn't.

Maddie, Gwen, Christine, Janelle, and Kody have also talked about Meri's toxic behavior in the early years.

I believe that her behavior must have been horrible.

Apparently she's posting on social media like absolutely nothing happened over the last few days. I just hope that she doesn't get away with trying to just let this blow over.

I think that it's time for Meri to pay for her bad behavior toward the rest of the family.

At some point, it comes time to pay the piper.

There must be something at the root of it.

If these insinuations came one on top of another, it would appear that the others were dredging up old incidents to join the chorus. 

When prompted, Gwen recently mentioned a violent incident years ago, Maddie's outburst against Meri was about 2 years ago and with Christine and Janelle, Meri's temper has been an ongoing theme.

All of this suggests that the early years with Meri were pretty chaotic.

[Celia Rubenstein]

I recently saw an old clip of Leon's high school graduation. Does anyone else remember that?

Meri threw herself a fit because she wasn't happy with her seat. Just fuming and hiss-crying.  Everyone was trying to find a solution but she stormed off in anger.

She really showed that she can't manage her emotions very well when she is put on the spot and stressed or frustrated.

I don't know that I believe she doled out beatings, but I don't think she has completely clean hands, either.  There is something to ... 5 or 6 people all independently saying there was a serious problem. 

 

[Cetacean]

41 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I don't know that I believe she doled out beatings, but I don't think she has completely clean hands, either.  There is something to ... 5 or 6 people all independently saying there was a serious problem. 

I am not saying that Meri was not or couldn't be a total bitch. But none of these people are giving anything but hints and allegations.  Not one single person has come up with facts corroborated by anyone else. 

"Meri was a monster" means that's how someone sees it in the context of what was happening at the time.  To a kid being dressed down for punching his sister in the face, his embarrassment might put an entirely different light on it than someone witnessing the event.  Cutting off Maddie for not working hard enough in the shill game could be seen as verbal abuse but it's not like Meri went online and spread tales.

We simply do not know nor may we ever know the extent of what went on.  But if Paedon is stretching the truth for his own agenda then he has really opened a can of worms and he can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.  I hope the rest of the family does not cut him off if these are all fabricated or embellished.  Certainly not one of the 18 kids (yet) has stepped up to defend him with actual facts that back him up.

[Celia Rubenstein]

2 hours ago, Cetacean said:

I am not saying that Meri was not or couldn't be a total bitch. But none of these people are giving anything but hints and allegations.  Not one single person has come up with facts corroborated by anyone else. 

I completely understand your point.  I do.  The jurist in me craves corroboration. I understand its value.  But I think we should remember that sometimes vague insinuations are sometimes all people have the strength and courage to share. Especially when there are huge power differentials among parties.  And jumping in to support those who are willing to share their truth can be very intimidating to some people. I do not necessarily believe that an absence of corroboration means others do not agree with what has been alleged,

I am not trying to argue anyone out of their opinion one way or the other, really.  But I want to point out that other Brown family members not clamoring to jump on board the allegation train doesn't mean they don't have their own stories to tell. 

That being said, I also feel it is VERY important to recognize that people who have a different narrative (that Meri was NOT that bad) may also feel intimidated and not want to speak out challenging family members who are complaining about her.  They may be reluctant to brand their siblings as liars. 

I am guessing that 18 kids have 18 different opinions.   Each wife has an opinion, too.  I don't know what else to say except I am done lecturing people lol sorry

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Celia Rubenstein

[Rabbit Hutch]

For me there's just not enough information to make an educated guess as to what really happened.  Maddie comes across at times as unfocused, Christine is a drama queen, Kootie has agendas that involve Robyn, and ostensibly Paeden has anger management issues, himself.  I can see where Meri, organizer surpreme, would have issues with Maddie's staying on point, Christine's dramatics, and even clashing with Paedon, who seems to be a hothead.

I can also see Meri being at the very least controlling and obstructive to the kids that weren't hers. Especially since she couldn't have more than one.

No one has stepped forward on either side, that's what most curious.  Maybe they're all busy contacting attorneys, or maybe this is a bid to ensure the show does remain on the air for another season or two.

If Paedon is blowing some episode between him and Meri out of proportion, then he should prepare himself for a huge life lesson.  It not only may cost him in money, but also in familial trust.  I know if I were his sibling I would seriously ponder the ramifications of telling him anything of import in the future.

If Meri did indeed really abuse the kids, well, those hens have come home to roost.  It's now a waiting game to see if the truth will come out, or if obfuscation reigns.

[laurakaye]

I feel like Christine's kids with Patreons or YT channels are playing with fire.  Maybe they felt like they could finally talk once Christine officially left Kody.  But they're also being purposefully vague for the sake of the show that Christine is still a part of, and the paycheck she needs from it.  They're walking a fine line between telling their truths, or their version of the truth, without disparaging their mother.  And I find it suspect that all three - Paedon, Gwen and Mykelti - are all sort of stirring things up at the same time.  Are they in competition with each other?

[Absolom]

That's an interesting perspective @laurakaye.  I'm in wait and see mode.  I can't condemn someone without knowing more about what happened.  I can also see that that there was a lot of anger, frustration, and tension within the overall family.  It was a potentially explosive situation.  

[Mahamid Frauded Me]

Interesting series of events. As you all know, I am Meri's biggest fan (said in my best Kathy Bates voice). I do think Meri has a temper and Kody even said on the Tell All that she is controlling. Do I think she may have spanked some of the kids, perhaps. I even read that it was also alluded to the fact she would lock some of the kids in a closet. Whether or not any of that is true, I don't know. This whole tictock thing I am super skeptical of it being genuine, I think she received so much backlash and negative attention from her last bank breaking retreat that this very well could  be the infamous JO adding more fuel to the fire seeing that she recently added a new weekend to her website. The Browns have been scamming the system for a long time prior to the show and I pray they finally get booted off the air for good.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Mahamid Frauded Me

[TurtlePower]

3 hours ago, laurakaye said:

I feel like Christine's kids with Patreons or YT channels are playing with fire.  Maybe they felt like they could finally talk once Christine officially left Kody.  But they're also being purposefully vague for the sake of the show that Christine is still a part of, and the paycheck she needs from it.  They're walking a fine line between telling their truths, or their version of the truth, without disparaging their mother.  And I find it suspect that all three - Paedon, Gwen and Mykelti - are all sort of stirring things up at the same time.  Are they in competition with each other?

All this. I think it could be suppressed anger and they finally feel the power to be able to say something, perhaps at having had to remain silent for so long. They may well see the end of the show coming and aren’t as afraid because, fuck it (but not too much just yet).

 

[GeeGolly]

I feel like the entire family is playing their own independent game of Pin the Blame on the Asshole. Kody targets Christine, Christine targets Robyn, Kody and Meri, Robyn targets the OG3, Janelle (gently) targets Robyn and Kody and Paedon is targeting Meri.

Weirdly, and rather shockingly, Meri changed her tune during the tell-alls and stopped targeting anyone.

The funny thing is Meri reached asshole status all on her own, as did Kody and Robyn. Hate-watchers and rubber-neckers had them all pinned from the beginning.

[General Days]

There's a Tiktok video from Gwendlyn, up on Instagram. In it, she puts Paedon on blast for being a "sexist, homophobic, transphobic, racist, violent abuser," then warns people not to take anything he says as fact.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CnikA0hIlb4/

That might be the most direct thing any Brown has ever said on TV or the internet.

[General Days]

On "Down the Rabbit Hole at Bedtime" on YouTube, the host shows a longer cut of Gwen's Tiktok video. It runs from about the 1:14 mark to the 2:05 mark.

In addition to what she said in the video above, Gwen says supporting Paedon (including just watching his content) encourages him to continue. She also adds: 

[Gwen's words in italics]
 

"He's the most awful person I've ever had the displeasure of knowing. And I would strongly advise against taking anything he says as fact. I would advise against giving him any kind of support, even if you're just watching the kind of content that he puts out, because it does encourage him to continue."

"Once I can fall asleep at night without heavy medication, I definitely want to talk more about this. I want to talk more about what I've been though, especially the situation. And I definitely have enough trauma that I could probably write a book on just a month of my life."

"I don't want to address hatred, because I feel like it ignites more hatred, and it seems that this is a lot bigger than I originally assumed it would be. So, I want to keep it a little minimal, and I want to make sure that I can mentally prepare myself, before I actually address the situation."

"Right now, however, the focus of my life is on school, and my marriage, and a lot of self-healing. And I appreciate everybody who's reached out. And I hope that I can help dispel some confusion. Thank you so much."

[End of Gwen's message.]

Video below is cued up to Gwen's message.

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by General Days
formatting problem

[Libby]

1 hour ago, General Days said:

There's a Tiktok video from Gwendlyn, up on Instagram. In it, she puts Paedon on blast for being a "sexist, homophobic, transphobic, racist, violent abuser," then warns people not to take anything he says as fact.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CnikA0hIlb4/

That might be the most direct thing any Brown has ever said on TV or the internet.

So Gwen attributes all of these terms to Paedon without specific examples. Some people are hesitant to term Meri's behavior as problematic without specific examples.

Are we expected to believe that Paedon is a "sexist, homophobic, transphobic, racist, violent abuser" without concrete examples from Gwen? They are some very strong words. I believe that he has displayed a strong tendency toward some of these terms, but violent abuser seems pretty strong.

If a minor brother gets this term for hitting his minor sister, than quite a few males in our society would be termed violent abusers. Sorry Gwen, I'm not buying it.

Meri is being accused of adult on child aggression. It's a whole different thing than brother and sister stuff as minors.

[lindalouwho]

In the episode right after Kody and Robin got married, the OG took all the kids for a picnic.  Breanna sat down where Paedon had been. He very forcibly got in her face about “his spot.” Standing over her, talking loud, being intimidating. Bully behavior. Logan told him to chill out, and laughed off his behavior. If they showed it, I have to believe it wasn’t unusual behavior. Christine told him that if his “bad behavior “ around Dayton (code for bullying?) didn’t end, Dayton could choose to go live with his dad. At which point Paedon started walking to school with Dayton. Christine wouldn’t let Gwen stay back from the wrestling meet because she would be alone with Paedon. I think he was a bully, maybe still is.  Meri nursed Madison. Gwen likes her, and can be seen cuddling with her on several occasions. Ysabelle and Breanna were over the moon when they got to go on an overnight at Meri’s, who had designed an entire room with them in mind. She has always created a special place, set aside for the younger kids. At the first house in Flagstaff, some of the girls asked which room would be theirs when they visited. Robin’s older girls chose to sit on her lap whenever the whole group was together. Does she have favorites, in a group of seventy eleven children? Probably. Are there a few she would rather not hang out with? Probably. Was she a danger to anyones life? I doubt it. Was she the strict parent? Probably. Three other adults ought to be aware enough to step in if she was dangerous. We need the Browns to define safe.

[GeeGolly]

6 minutes ago, Libby said:

So Gwen attributes all of these terms to Paedon without specific examples. Some people are hesitant to term Meri's behavior as problematic without specific examples.

Are we expected to believe that Paedon is a "sexist, homophobic, transphobic, racist, violent abuser" without concrete examples from Gwen? They are some very strong words. I believe that he has displayed a strong tendency toward some of these terms, but violent abuser seems pretty strong.

If a minor brother gets this term for hitting his minor sister, than quite a few males in our society would be termed violent abusers. Sorry Gwen, I'm not buying it.

Meri is being accused of adult on child aggression. It's a whole different thing than brother and sister stuff as minors.

I have no idea if Paedon abused Gwen, but sibling abuse is real and very traumatic. Many studies have shown it is more common than child abuse by a parent, but is reported less, for obvious reasons.

[Libby]

One thing is very clear. There is a lot of dysfunction in the Brown family. There are also very real and deep fractures in the family.

There's 23 of them. It's nice that they can all break off and hang around members of the family who they like and get along with.

The big, happy, Brown family that TLC tried to portray has been exposed as totally false.

So much for polygamy being an ok, alternate life style. That's also been exposed as totally false.

 

[General Days]

11 minutes ago, Libby said:

So Gwen attributes all of these terms to Paedon without specific examples. Some people are hesitant to term Meri's behavior as problematic without specific examples.

Are we expected to believe that Paedon is a "sexist, homophobic, transphobic, racist, violent abuser" without concrete examples from Gwen? They are some very strong words. I believe that he has displayed a strong tendency toward some of these terms, but violent abuser seems pretty strong.

I was just sharing her side. I know I need specifics from people in the Brown family, before I reach any conclusion. 

That said, I watched that whole 3 hour and 5 minute video with Paedon, so I don't need Gwen to prove he is sexist, homophobic, or transphobic. I heard evidence of all of those from Paedon's own lips, and not only because he dead-named and misgendered Leon, repeatedly. 

 

18 minutes ago, Libby said:

If a minor brother gets this term for hitting his minor sister, than quite a few males in our society would be termed violent abusers. Sorry Gwen, I'm not buying it.

 

We know there was an incident in Gwen and Paedon's past, where he hit her. We know it, because they've both mentioned it. Paedon has called it a slap.

We don't know anything more about it, or if it was the only incident. 

Christine had six kids and partially raised 13 kids. In my opinion, a mother with that many kids, and that much experience, doesn't lay down a Can't Leave X Home with Y rule, over one slap. In my experience, big families only start to sweat roughhousing, when there is a pattern of aggression, that isn't just normal rivalry that briefly went physical. YMMV.

Additionally, Gwen was one of thirteen-to-eighteen kids (13 OG kids; 18 including Robyn's five). I don't know a kid from a big family who still wasn't speaking to a sibling once they were in their 20s, just because the sibling slapped them once, when they were teens.

 

20 minutes ago, Libby said:

Meri is being accused of adult on child aggression. It's a whole different thing than brother and sister stuff as minors.

 

I agree.

I just want to know what it was, before I reach a conclusion, particularly since I don't necessarily find Paedon all that credible. While he's not technically a "kid," he is young enough that he still seems to be a kid to me (or, maybe I'm just that old), that I don't want to tar and feather him here. I just don't take his word as gospel, either, not because of his age, but because of how I feel about him when I watch his videos, etc.

[Tuxcat]

47 minutes ago, Libby said:

So Gwen attributes all of these terms to Paedon without specific examples. Some people are hesitant to term Meri's behavior as problematic without specific examples.

Are we expected to believe that Paedon is a "sexist, homophobic, transphobic, racist, violent abuser" without concrete examples from Gwen? They are some very strong words. I believe that he has displayed a strong tendency toward some of these terms, but violent abuser seems pretty strong.

If a minor brother gets this term for hitting his minor sister, than quite a few males in our society would be termed violent abusers. Sorry Gwen, I'm not buying it.

Meri is being accused of adult on child aggression. It's a whole different thing than brother and sister stuff as minors.

If you watch the three hour video that Paedon did, he provides some fairly concrete examples with regards to his "sexist, homophobic and transphobic" views. So Gwen does not need to provide those. And here she uses the term "violent abuse." To date, Paedon did not say the word "abuse" regarding Meri - neither did Gwen - actually none of them have with the exception of Maddie's 30 second tweet that didn't even name any names.

The situations are similar though. We have accusations and allegations of various things without any concrete examples. So if are going to condemn Meri, you should also condemn Paedon. Or, reserve judgment for both until we know more.

I see the words abuse, toxic, gaslighting, narcissist... thrown around so much these days. It all becomes very muddled. And in light of the attention seeking behavior of Christine's children, I read with caution. 

That being said, I think sibling rivalry and roughhousing is vastly different than sibling abuse -  and the seriousness of that issue should't be demoted just because they are siblings.