S06.E04: Shrinks Don’t Talk And Kids Don’t Sing

[DanaK]

Quote

WEDNESDAY, FEB. 28 8:00-8:30 p.m. EST

Mark adjusts to his first day of college as a commuter student; meanwhile, Becky gets into a disagreement with Beverly Rose's music teacher over a song.

 

Edited February 23 by DanaK

[Annber03]

"A Conner on the school board. That's like an arsonist joining the fire department."

Got a good laugh out of that line :D. But yeah, Louise, go fir it. I appreciate the episode calling out how utterly insane this whole "no songs that might upset people" attitude is, especially in regards to people getting bent out of shape over anything that might even imply the existence of or support for  LGBTQ+ people. 

Mark sure grew up fast, damn. I'm glad he's got his own dorm room, now. But yes, totally understand his need for privacy. 

[ams1001]

How is Dancing Queen appropriate for six-year-olds, even if you don't think it's about a drag queen?

You come to look for a king
Anybody could be that guy

You are the dancing queen
Young and sweet
Only seventeen

(Or Lola? Billie Jean? Why would you be singing that with little kids?) Though I don't see what they have to apologize for. They didn't actually sing the song. (Don't get me wrong; banning things like Rainbow Connection or Somewhere Over the Rainbow is ridiculous, but some of the songs they listed are bad examples.)

Um, Jackie, pretty much all my transparent containers came with opaque lids.

No, Darlene, a psychologist is not going to tell you anything about what your kid talked about. She probably shouldn't even be seeing you as a client, either. (But apparently she's willing to tell your family all about you?)

How is Darlene getting a job on behalf of Mark without anyone in charge actually talking to him? If he's the night janitor, doesn't that mean he'd be working in the evening when all the gay stuff is happening? (And I feel like helping potentially-underage students get kegs up to the roof for a party is a great way to get fired before you start.)

Pretty much every storyline in this episode annoyed me.

Edited February 29 by ams1001

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, ams1001 said:

How is Dancing Queen appropriate for six-year-olds, even if you don't think it's about a drag queen?

You come to look for a king
Anybody could be that guy

You are the dancing queen
Young and sweet
Only seventeen

That's completely realistic, though -- the people who raise hell about a song because it is or could be crazy-ass interpreted to be about a drag queen, someone who is LGBTQ+, an atheist, etc. do not give a single shit if a song is sexist.  Or racist.  Or ageist.  On and on -- anything actually offensive.  The agenda is as narrow as it is hateful.

I liked Louise coming across a way to be involved with music again, so was really disappointed when she was willing to acquiesce to this bullshit and apologize, and heartened when she saw the light.  LOL at her running for the school board; I wonder if they'll actually pursue that.

I'd thought it weird Darlene's house had apparently became the main set, so glad we got more at Dan's this week.

Being a commuter student at a university is indeed an unusual, often isolating, experience, so I like that issue being raised.  Of course, it speaks to how Mark might have benefited from starting at a community college (although that comes with its own set of problems, given the number of students from his socioeconomic background who do not ever move on to a university), but at least the in-show reason for him being able to obtain a dorm room was chalked up to a magical work-study gig rather than Darlene (and Ben, since they have idiotically combined finances) magically coming up with the money.

Dr. Rogers mocking Darlene's wholly inappropriate attempts at getting information on Mark was disappointingly undermined by the tag, where she freely doled out information on Darlene to the rest of the family.

[Brn2bwild]

46 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Dr. Rogers mocking Darlene's wholly inappropriate attempts at getting information on Mark was disappointingly undermined by the tag, where she freely doled out information on Darlene to the rest of the family.

I'd like to think that was Darlene fantasizing about her worst fears.

[OLynn33]

Ffs. More and more I appreciate that I got to grow up when I did. Everything is so ridiculous now. Some of my fondest memories as a kid was time spent at a cottage where we listened and danced to ABBA in particular. Never until this episode did I think Dancing Queen was about a drag queen. Probably because it isn't. Also, Conway Twitty was on permanent spin at that cottage. Bum bum bum. 

Love the episodes where Jackie is off her meds.

 

[iMonrey]

Didn't Mark abuse ADHD medicine to hyper study for good grades? And now he's going to be a "night janitor" which means he'll get very little sleep? That sounds like a recipe for disaster. 

I get that school boards are nutty about every little thing these days, but Lanford is in Illinois, a solid blue state. I get the social commentary here but it may be slightly misplaced, geographically speaking. 

[chitowngirl]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Didn't Mark abuse ADHD medicine to hyper study for good grades? And now he's going to be a "night janitor" which means he'll get very little sleep? That sounds like a recipe for disaster. 

I get that school boards are nutty about every little thing these days, but Lanford is in Illinois, a solid blue state. I get the social commentary here but it may be slightly misplaced, geographically speaking. 

Oh, there are red pockets all over Illinois! 

[TattleTeeny]

18 hours ago, ams1001 said:

How is Dancing Queen appropriate for six-year-olds, even if you don't think it's about a drag queen?

Speaking as someone who was almost 6 when this song was released, I can assure the world that I am perfectly fine regardless of having sung it.

[ESS]

Loved this episode and loved seeing Louise back again. Anyway I loved seeing her in the new house finally (it's the first time) and I also loved her singing to the kids it was so cute so I really hope we'll get more scenes of that this seaso. I loved the lid day scene with Louise as well it was so funny!! As for the song I never thought it was about a drag queen and I don't get the hype we've had these songs out for decades so what's the problem? people are just so biogeted these days I guess especially parents complaining about everything, but I'm glad Louise is gonna try and fight the school board and maybe even have a job in the process I really hope they give her the job!

Edited March 1 by ESS

[Natalie68]

16 hours ago, OLynn33 said:

Ffs. More and more I appreciate that I got to grow up when I did. Everything is so ridiculous now. Some of my fondest memories as a kid was time spent at a cottage where we listened and danced to ABBA in particular. Never until this episode did I think Dancing Queen was about a drag queen. Probably because it isn't. Also, Conway Twitty was on permanent spin at that cottage. Bum bum bum. 

Love the episodes where Jackie is off her meds.

 

Think about the song Hot Child in the City!  Kids didn't ever think about the words and the meaning of a song.  It just typically isn't on their radar.  

[TattleTeeny]

1 hour ago, ESS said:

we've had these songs out for decades so what's the problem? people are just so sensitive these days

I would switch out the word “sensitive” with “bigoted.” Because the people who would get upset about a purported reference to a drag queen are not really sensitive to actual offensive things. 

[emmyG]

Even back in the 80s parents sometimes freaked out about children singing songs that have potential adult implications (even though the kids usually don't get it and aren't bothered by it). There was a TV show that had little kids dressing up like popstars and crooning the tunes, to the kids it was just playing dressup and they were having a great time, but adults had meltdowns. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minipops

It's not quite the same as it is today but people often get upset about things when it comes to kids.

[TattleTeeny]

Sure. But the current topic being addressed on this show is not about that; it’s about certain groups of people marginalizing other groups of people (by pretending to believe, and perpetuating the lie, that the latter harms children).

Edited February 29 by TattleTeeny

[TattleTeeny]

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I get that school boards are nutty about every little thing these days, but Lanford is in Illinois, a solid blue state. I get the social commentary here but it may be slightly misplaced, geographically speaking

I think this show early on portrayed how people have gone from blue to red over the last X number of years (I know the actual number, but I feel like saying it explicitly might be inching up to a warn). And so has the reality surrounding the show’s former namesake.

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, Natalie68 said:

Think about the song Hot Child in the City!  Kids didn't ever think about the words and the meaning of a song.  It just typically isn't on their radar.  

This. For god's sakes, I used to sing along to J. Geils Band's "Centerfold" as a kid. I guarantee I didn't have the first clue what the song was about, I just liked the "Na, na, na..." part :p. 

The best way to ensure kids will find out what a song is about, however, is for the adults in their lives to make a big production out of talking about it and making it a far bigger deal than it really needs to be. If the adults don't raise a fuss in the first place, the kids aren't going to care or pay attention one way or another. These kinds of complaints about song lyrics have nothing to do with "protecting the children" and everything to do with adults trying to project their personal discomforts onto kids to justify banning stuff they personally don't like. 

[Natalie68]

6 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

This. For god's sakes, I used to sing along to J. Geils Band's "Centerfold" as a kid. I guarantee I didn't have the first clue what the song was about, I just liked the "Na, na, na..." part :p. 

The best way to ensure kids will find out what a song is about, however, is for the adults in their lives to make a big production out of talking about it and making it a far bigger deal than it really needs to be. If the adults don't raise a fuss in the first place, the kids aren't going to care or pay attention one way or another. These kinds of complaints about song lyrics have nothing to do with "protecting the children" and everything to do with adults trying to project their personal discomforts onto kids to justify banning stuff they personally don't like. 

I remember being in jr high chorus and our chorus wanted to sing Three Times a Lady.  They put the kibosh on that.  HA!  

WILD applause for your second paragraph.  There are huge things to worry about and lyrics just aren't it.

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, Natalie68 said:

WILD applause for your second paragraph.  There are huge things to worry about and lyrics just aren't it.

Seriously, f the people who get outraged over song lyrics put their energy towards getting upset about actual dangers facing kids, we could really get somewhere. But that's a whole other topic unto itsellf, so I'll just leave it at that. 

In regards to thes show, I do wonder if they will make the whole thing of Louise running for the school board into a storyline as the season goes on. I would actually be kinda interested to see that play out. 

[TattleTeeny]

Again, though, I think what they’re addressing in this episode is not questionable lyrics. It’s what some people (aka, bigots) find to be questionable people. This is not a resurgence of the PMRC label issue. It’s much worse. (Though I guess all of that does cause the school people to feel that they now have to be oversensitive to lyrics in order to avoid the shit-show that the bigots would bring.)

If it was about inappropriately mature lyrics, Rainbow Connection and the like wouldn’t be an issue at all. The rainbow is the issue. To the bigots.

i just remembered how much we listened to Grease when I was little. Yeesh — “pussy wagon” among other things, haha!

Edited March 1 by TattleTeeny

[ams1001]

19 hours ago, Bastet said:

That's completely realistic, though -- the people who raise hell about a song because it is or could be crazy-ass interpreted to be about a drag queen, someone who is LGBTQ+, an atheist, etc. do not give a single shit if a song is sexist.  Or racist.  Or ageist.  On and on -- anything actually offensive.  The agenda is as narrow as it is hateful.

Good point.

4 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

Speaking as someone who was almost 6 when this song was released, I can assure the world that I am perfectly fine regardless of having sung it.

I don't have a problem with kids hearing it and singing along (it's a fun song!), I just find it an odd choice to specifically teach to a class of six-year-olds in school. I certainly don't think the kids would be scarred for life or anything. I agree with others above that kids aren't really processing the lyrics. Hell, I grew up on Looney Tunes and now I watch old clips and realize just how much flew right over my head. (Just looked up Centerfold; I was thinking it came out when I was a little older but it was shortly before I turned six.) I think the whole uproar over books in school lately is utterly ridiculous. 

[JAYJAY1979]

Illinois is a red state except for Chicago and the Chicago suburbs.

Dancing Queen by Abba is about a girl enjoying life and dancing at the local club.  It's a happy and fun song.

The Darlene plot was a snooze.

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

Dancing Queen by Abba is about a girl enjoying life and dancing at the local club.  It's a happy and fun song.

That's another thing, too, some of the interpretations people have of songs they're supposedly objecting to, it's clera they never even listened to the song or paid any sort of attention to the lyrics. Either that, or they're so certain of their interpretation of it being so "objectionable" for this or that reason to where you're like, "...you seem to be a LOT more focused on/obsessed over that idea/theory than the rest of us are...". 

[ESS]

4 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

I would switch out the word “sensitive” with “bigoted.” Because the people who would get upset about a purported reference to a drag queen are not really sensitive to actual offensive things. 

Okay I will and I didn't mean to offend anyone honestly, it's edited now. 

Edited March 1 by ESS

[TattleTeeny]

What? No — I don’t think you offended anyone! I think you were being generous by  assuming people were being merely sensitive as opposed to bigoted. 

[ESS]

2 hours ago, Annber03 said:

In regards to thes show, I do wonder if they will make the whole thing of Louise running for the school board into a storyline as the season goes on. I would actually be kinda interested to see that play out. 

Count me in for being interested in a storyline like that and I could see it happening with Louise she's probably gonna end up having a job there anyway so it would make sense. 

Just now, TattleTeeny said:

What? No — I don’t think you offended anyone! I think you were being generous by  assuming people were being merely sensitive as opposed to bigoted. 

Oh okay well still I apologize if I offended anyone and I guess "sensitive" was the wrong word to use. 

[TattleTeeny]

Believe me, you haven’t offended me; your post was just fine. My response was about the character of the type of people we’re discussing.

[ESS]

6 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

Believe me, you haven’t offended me; your post was just fine. My response was about the character of the type of people we’re discussing.

Okay thank you for clearing that up. 

[TattleTeeny]

And 12 hours later, stupid "Greased Lightning" is still in my head... (haha, "pussy wagon"!).

[Yeah No]

13 hours ago, ams1001 said:

I don't have a problem with kids hearing it and singing along (it's a fun song!), I just find it an odd choice to specifically teach to a class of six-year-olds in school.

I thought that too.  How do you even sing that song to a guitar?  I think it was chosen just to make the point, which I appreciate, but it still felt like an odd choice.

11 hours ago, Annber03 said:

That's another thing, too, some of the interpretations people have of songs they're supposedly objecting to, it's clera they never even listened to the song or paid any sort of attention to the lyrics. Either that, or they're so certain of their interpretation of it being so "objectionable" for this or that reason to where you're like, "...you seem to be a LOT more focused on/obsessed over that idea/theory than the rest of us are...". 

I have a pet peeve with people reading hidden meanings into lyrics that aren't there and then making a stink over it for whatever controversial reason they have up their ass.  Even when the artists themselves have publicly told the world that they did not mean whatever they're insinuating there will still be people insisting that they did!  Just ridiculous!

[jalady]

Ha!  This discussion reminds me of driving around with my godson when he was about 4 and singing Nelly's "Hot in Here" at the top of my lungs, unconcerned about him being  in the back seat.  And then I heard a little voice pipe up "really jalady, you want to take off all your clothes???"  OMG, I was mortified about him telling that to his parents, LOL.

For those who don't know, one of the lyrics is "It's getting hot in here, so take off all your clothes; I am getting so hot, I want to take my clothes off".

[MrsEVH]

4 hours ago, Yeah No said:

II have a pet peeve with people reading hidden meanings into lyrics that aren't there and then making a stink over it for whatever controversial reason they have up their ass.  Even when the artists themselves have publicly told the world that they did not mean whatever they're insinuating there will still be people insisting that they did!  Just ridiculous!

I agree. Like the whole Tipper Gore PMRC thing in the 80s. 

[Browncoat]

I listened to "Gimme Three Steps" which has a really bad word in it that somehow never gets censored on the radio.  

[SoMuchTV]

1 hour ago, Browncoat said:

I listened to "Gimme Three Steps" which has a really bad word in it that somehow never gets censored on the radio.  

Okay, now you have me curious. I know it’s been 50-ish years and I probably only heard the radio-friendly version. I even checked a couple of lyrics sites and I can’t figure it out. Give us boomers a hint?

[andidante]

2 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

Okay, now you have me curious. I know it’s been 50-ish years and I probably only heard the radio-friendly version. I even checked a couple of lyrics sites and I can’t figure it out. Give us boomers a hint?

I had to look at the lyrics too and didn't see anything wrong with them!

[Browncoat]

They say the c-word!

(also, I'm a boomer.)

[SoMuchTV]

5 minutes ago, Browncoat said:

They say the c-word!

(also, I'm a boomer.)

Still drawing a blank. 

And, sorry, should have said  fellow boomer. 

Edited March 2 by SoMuchTV

[Browncoat]

They refer to Linda Lou as a c-word -- c u next Tuesday.

[SoMuchTV]

14 minutes ago, Browncoat said:

They refer to Linda Lou as a c-word -- c u next Tuesday.

Wow I’m not surprised that wasn’t in the radio version, but I didn’t see those lyrics on any online sites. You must have had the lp?

[mythoughtis]

Louise running for the school board could be interesting… so it will never be mentioned again on the show. Hardly anything seems carried over from episode to episode. 
 

Can the writers make up their mind whether the Connors are neglectful parents or helicopter patents? Harris was in high school in season 1-Darlene never paid attention to her feelings. 

 

[Browncoat]

8 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

Wow I’m not surprised that wasn’t in the radio version, but I didn’t see those lyrics on any online sites. You must have had the lp?

It was in one of the live versions, I think. I haven't seen it on the online sites, either.  The original lyrics to Money For Nothing have been changed, too -- there's one verse that's always left out on the radio now, though you can find them online.

[One Tough Cookie]

On 3/1/2024 at 9:46 AM, Yeah No said:

Even when the artists themselves have publicly told the world that they did not mean whatever they're insinuating there will still be people insisting that they did!  Just ridiculous!

Oh gees. Remember the uproar about Puff the Magic Dragon?

[ButterQueen]

I enjoyed the show.  Especially “LID DAY”

[Wizardpatch]

The school’s parents probably danced to ABBA and those other songs at their own middle school dances. It is vastly more likely they would object to stuff from at least the last twenty years.

[kassa]

Fond memories of tween me belting out (and dancing to) "YMCA/In the Navy/Macho Man,"  as well as Donna Summer's "Hot Stuff". 

Going further back, Lady Marmalade! 

I could buy that Louise would be wary, despite her politics. She's the only one in the family that seems to have any grasp of needing financial security. 

 

Edited March 4 by kassa

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 2/28/2024 at 8:32 PM, ams1001 said:

Though I don't see what they have to apologize for. They didn't actually sing the song.

I guess she's supposed to apologize for bringing the lyrics into the building?  It made no sense to me, either.

12 hours ago, kassa said:

I could buy that Louise would be wary, despite her politics. She's the only one in the family that seems to have any grasp of needing financial security. 

Louise is supposed to get lunch and gas money only for teaching music; she's definitely not doing it for financial security.  In fact, since she's going to be paid officially, that measly payment will be reported to the IRS and she'll owe taxes on it. Unless the school has a (cash) slush fund.

On 2/28/2024 at 8:32 PM, ams1001 said:

How is Darlene getting a job on behalf of Mark without anyone in charge actually talking to him? If he's the night janitor, doesn't that mean he'd be working in the evening when all the gay stuff is happening? (And I feel like helping potentially-underage students get kegs up to the roof for a party is a great way to get fired before you start.)

It does seem like he'd be unclogging toilets while some activities are happening. And I too, think that if anyone official finds out about the kegs (or a student falls off the roof), he's done.  We also didn't meet the roommate with the basketball decorations.  I wonder if a future episode will be about how they don't get along.

On 2/28/2024 at 11:46 PM, Bastet said:

Being a commuter student at a university is indeed an unusual, often isolating, experience, so I like that issue being raised. 

I'm sure it is, but he could at least have hung out in the library and done homework and then engaged in some activities or clubs that weren't dorm-centered, and then come home.  It's unlikely he lives really far.  We have no idea how he commutes back-and-forth, but if necessary, Darlene could go fetch him, I suppose.

I'm also not surprised that he wasn't sleeping well in his living-room window seat bed.

Finally, I guess that that Darlene must be on the school medical insurance, or the psychologist would not be offering to see her (presumably) for free.  So that's a good work perk she's never mentioned.  However, if someone stuck their hands in my food in a fit of anger because they weren't happy with my lack of responses, there's no way I'd offer to see them in my office.  Who knows how violent they'd become if I said something they didn't like.

 

Edited March 5 by ItCouldBeWorse

[b4pjoe]

On 2/29/2024 at 10:37 AM, iMonrey said:

I get that school boards are nutty about every little thing these days, but Lanford is in Illinois, a solid blue state. I get the social commentary here but it may be slightly misplaced, geographically speaking. 

On 2/29/2024 at 1:21 PM, chitowngirl said:

Oh, there are red pockets all over Illinois! 

Illinois is a very blue state in its overall population which the majority is in Chicago area but by area it is much more red.

 

[emmyG]

As far as I know most states are red by area because big open nearly-empty areas with very little government AND very little population skew red, and most US states have a lot of those big empty zones.

[chediavolo]

On 3/1/2024 at 8:52 PM, Browncoat said:

They say the c-word!

(also, I'm a boomer.)

Where exactly is this? I think this is an urban myth or something because I listened to this song when it first came out incessantly as on the radio (it would have been bleeped) …and the album and never heard them  say that word. 

On 2/29/2024 at 7:21 PM, Annber03 said:

This. For god's sakes, I used to sing along to J. Geils Band's "Centerfold" as a kid. I guarantee I didn't have the first clue what the song was about, I just liked the "Na, na, na..." part :p. 

The best way to ensure kids will find out what a song is about, however, is for the adults in their lives to make a big production out of talking about it and making it a far bigger deal than it really needs to be. If the adults don't raise a fuss in the first place, the kids aren't going to care or pay attention one way or another. These kinds of complaints about song lyrics have nothing to do with "protecting the children" and everything to do with adults trying to project their personal discomforts onto kids to justify banning stuff they personally don't like. 

We were singing along to The Kinks, Lola on the radio. Many, many ,many, songs we sang  along with are not for children, but I don’t think it hurt us one bit. Basically we didn’t know what we were saying. It was just fun to sing. I suppose it’s one thing to do it on your own, but to sing some of these songs at  a school  recital would not be appropriate although the ones they are talking about I don’t seem to make a lot of sense.

[chediavolo]

On 3/2/2024 at 5:31 PM, One Tough Cookie said:

Oh gees. Remember the uproar about Puff the Magic Dragon?

Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds. The list is long!

On 3/2/2024 at 6:07 AM, Browncoat said:

It was in one of the live versions, I think. I haven't seen it on the online sites, either.  The original lyrics to Money For Nothing have been changed, too -- there's one verse that's always left out on the radio now, though you can find them online.

When you go to a live concert, you never know what to expect or what you were going to hear them say, but that isn’t an original lyric. 

[mostlylurking]

On 3/2/2024 at 4:31 PM, One Tough Cookie said:

Oh gees. Remember the uproar about Puff the Magic Dragon?

“Puff was just the boy’s magical dragon”….”are you a pothead Focker?”  My brain went to this right away, ha!

On 3/6/2024 at 5:43 PM, emmyG said:

As far as I know most states are red by area because big open nearly-empty areas with very little government AND very little population skew red, and most US states have a lot of those big empty zones.

This!  If it weren’t for the hugely populated cities in Illinois, New York, and California, these states would be red.