Season 2 - Feud: Capote vs The Swans

[Black Knight]

15 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

It would be nice to know how it is these women are even friends.  They don't seem to have much in common, except Truman, and being in society is not enough to sustain the kind of relationship these women are depicted as having.

I'm not sure about that last statement. New York society is a small world; these women understand each other, but they wouldn't understand any woman outside their bubble, nor would any woman outside their bubble understand - or have much patience for - them. Shared understanding in a small world with limited options for friends goes a long way in making strong friendships between people who otherwise maybe would not have much of anything to do with each other.

I referenced upthread, without giving spoilers because I figured the show was going to cover this, that Liz Smith hated Lee Radziwill for her role in the Gore/Vidal feud. I'll tell the anecdote now: The story Truman told about Gore drunk in the White House was told to him by Radziwill; that's what he needed her to testify to in order to help him with the lawsuit. Smith called up Radziwill to plead with her to testify, and Radziwill made the remark to her about "two f*****" that was featured in this episode, and still refused to testify. Smith, who was bisexual and leaned towards women, refused to have anything to do with Radziwill ever again.

[carrps]

6 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

The failure of the series to do any kind of world building for these women - independently, as high society ladies and becoming intimate friends of Capote - is just plain old storytelling malpractice. 

This exactly. They're just paper dolls at this point and repeating the same things; doing the same things.

Another made-up character for the Capote "character" to bounce off against and make himself sound oh-so-philosophical and world-weary. Boring.

Wonder why the Beatty girl got a nose job.

[sistermagpie]

17 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I would say the best part of the episode was the shop girl at Bonwit Teller being snotty to Babe and CZ about wanting to buy gloves.   

Philistine that I am, I couldn't help but be thinking, "But people still wear gloves...?"

Okay, I get that she was talking about indoor gloves but still--they must have had a place to buy gloves!

1 hour ago, carrps said:

This exactly. They're just paper dolls at this point and repeating the same things; doing the same things.

I just don't even get why there are so many of them when they're not presented that distinctly. I get Babe is Truman's favorite, despite CZ seeming to be a better friend. I get CZ is the more level-headed one who's still friends with him and Slim is the leader. But that's not much of a distinction. Lee seems like just another person who happens to look much better with her hair down (seems nobody's told Babe her helmet looks ridiculous). I get nothing out of her talking about being divorced multiple times. It's not like i know to who or anything about it. Babe's husband seemed to be getting a better edit when he was at her treatments but now he's subtly criticizing her punctured hands? 

They want the world of these women to seem glamorous when it just seems small and empty. Like when Lee made her snotty remarks to Kerry it's not like it really hurt her since as an actual young person this wasn't actually how she dressed. I know her remarks were more about Truman, but she directed them at Kerry for a reason and it might have been more interesting if they showed how little power she had. Like yes, thank you random middle aged woman, I'm in costume at the moment as you ten years ago when you apparently mattered to some people?

The only other wife who I can identify is Molly Ringwald for being the goofy California wife so it's nice to see her.

[cameron]

21 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

Lord & Taylor (still in business) got the last laugh (Bonwit Teller going out in bankruptcy in 2000).

As Janet Malcom wrote in The Journalist And The Murderer - in regard to Joe McGinniss, author of Fatal Vision about the murderer Jeffrey MacDonald:

To be honest, Malcolm nailed way back in 1990 what this series was trying to express (most explicitly through Fake James Baldwin last week). 

Agree, I'm just irritated with what seems like an extended SNL characterization of Capote by this point. I was guffawing at the (again, completely fictional) seduction and subsequent relationship with the hunky AC guy (played by Vito Schnabel, son of Julian).

The failure of the series to do any kind of world building for these women - independently, as high society ladies and becoming intimate friends of Capote - is just plain old storytelling malpractice. 

Lord & Taylor filed for bankruptcy in 2022 and closed all its stores, even the one on Fifth Ave. in NYC.

[Maximona]

On 2/29/2024 at 7:06 PM, Snazzy Daisy said:

I need more swans‼️

Not me!  I watch various Real Housewives of ...  every week. 😀  Swans, Housewives—they are one & the same.

I thought this was the best episode the series has produced so far.  From my perspective, at least, Capote's "friendship" with these women is completely a middle school construct:  The women are vapid, superficial, not particularly smart, in fact pretty f**ckin' dumb, but they are a golden elite through their money & their connections, and Capote—who, however jaunty the front he puts on, feels desperately marginalized—was pathetically eager to be judged important by them.

Of course, he never could be.  Lee Radziwill's statement—“They’re just a couple of [homophobic epithet] and this is just a fight between two [homophobic epithet]. I think it’s disgusting that we have to be dragged into it"—is an actual Lee Radziwill quotation.  (So ironic that her final husband was the closeted gay director Herbert Ross!)

There was some real poignance in this episode.  Though Hollander's accent slipped noticeably in places.  😀

I guess since the script was optioned from Leamer's book, the Swans had to be positioned as Capote's antagonists but all the posters above who note that the show would have been much more interesting as Feud:  Truman versus Vidal are absolutely correct.

It wouldn't have had the potential to attract as large a viewing audience, though.

(And I wonder how big the intersection of Real Housewives viewers & Feud: Capote viewers is?  😀)

[pasdetrois]

1 hour ago, Maximona said:

Feud:  Truman versus Vidal 

Who should play Vidal?

[Maximona]

4 minutes ago, pasdetrois said:

Who should play Vidal?

What a great question!

(Sadly, James Mason & Dirk Bogarde are dead.)

Sebastian Stan maybe?  😀

[TakomaSnark]

Well, L&T still made it 22 years longer than Bonwit! 😁

[peacheslatour]

5 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

Who should play Vidal?

I could actually see Adam Driver in the role.

[seacliffsal]

Since Truman mentioned Wallis Simpson in this episode I thought it would be great to have a season of Feud: Wallis vs. Elisabeth (the Queen Mum, not Elizabeth II).  I have read a bit about the bitterness and competiveness between the two and think it would be delicious!

[Quilt Fairy]

10 hours ago, Maximona said:

I guess since the script was optioned from Leamer's book, the Swans had to be positioned as Capote's antagonists but all the posters above who note that the show would have been much more interesting as Feud:  Truman versus Vidal are absolutely correct.

It wouldn't have had the potential to attract as large a viewing audience, though.

Why not?  Aren't we all here for Capote?  I'd wager few people outside of NY society have ever heard of the swans before. 

[pasdetrois]

19 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I could actually see Adam Driver in the role.

I wonder if Rupert Everett could pull it off.

[carrps]

On 3/3/2024 at 8:54 AM, pasdetrois said:

I wonder if Rupert Everett could pull it off.

Yeah, totally. Did you see him in that Funny Woman show on PBS just a little while ago? I didn't even recognize him.

Edited March 4 by carrps

[Sandlapper]

Honestly I am not certain why I am still watching at this point.  The episodes seem to be mainly repeats of one another.  I don't think they had enough material for 8 episodes.

[NowVoyager]

6 hours ago, Sandlapper said:

Honestly I am not certain why I am still watching at this point.  The episodes seem to be mainly repeats of one another.  I don't think they had enough material for 8 episodes.

Yeah. I agree. I think it was a flaw in the script to not go into more detail about the Swans' lives: Babe's accident & affairs; Slim's marriages; Lee's relationship with her sister, Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis; CZ's nude painting--- Diego Rivera & Frieda Kahlo! I think the script focused too heavily on Truman in his declining years--- alcoholic with writer's block, no real answer as to why he betrayed the Swans. 

[Blakeston]

 

On 3/2/2024 at 8:41 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

Why not?  Aren't we all here for Capote?  I'd wager few people outside of NY society have ever heard of the swans before. 

I'd definitely prefer a season of Capote v. Vidal. But this season was heavily marketed as "watch big-name actresses play the queens of New York high society as the gloves come off, and they go to war!" People love that kind of thing.

It says a lot that Tom Hollander has final billing, rather than first, even though he's so clearly the main character.

[sugarbaker design]

4 hours ago, NowVoyager said:

alcoholic with writer's block, no real answer as to why he betrayed the Swans. 

$$$ and jealousy.  

[peacheslatour]

11 hours ago, Sandlapper said:

Honestly I am not certain why I am still watching at this point.  The episodes seem to be mainly repeats of one another.  I don't think they had enough material for 8 episodes.

A Ryan Murphy show losing steam and fizzling out towards the end? Get my fainting couch!

[sugarbaker design]

3 hours ago, Blakeston said:

It says a lot that Tom Hollander has final billing, rather than first, even though he's so clearly the main character.

Although his name is the final one in the credits, I wouldn't characterize it as final billing when he gets "and Tom Hollander".

On 3/2/2024 at 8:41 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

I'd wager few people outside of NY society have ever heard of the swans before. 

Some of us remember when the Esquire excerpt came out and followed every NY gossip columnist with theories about who was whom.

[ahpny]

On 3/2/2024 at 6:24 AM, cameron said:

Lord & Taylor filed for bankruptcy in 2022 and closed all its stores, even the one on Fifth Ave. in NYC.

The old Lord & Taylor building on Fifth Avenue (which is landmarked, of course) became become the New York City headquarters of Amazon. Amazon spend years renovating the space but assumed occupancy a while back. It's hard to think of a more emblematic change in retail commerce than that. Forget those gloves.

[Tim McD]

On 3/2/2024 at 8:49 AM, Maximona said:

Feud:  Truman versus Vidal 

You could do a couple of series with Vidal: Mailer vs Vidal, Buckley vs Vidal. 

[Elizzikra]

On 3/2/2024 at 8:41 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

Why not?  Aren't we all here for Capote?  I'd wager few people outside of NY society have ever heard of the swans before. 

Kind of… but I’m really drawn in by the swans and their clothes. I’ve been loving the period clothing and accessories, as well as just the overall glamorous vibe of the show. Capote v. Vidal wouldn’t have had as much of that.

 

On 3/1/2024 at 5:54 PM, sistermagpie said:

Okay, I get that she was talking about indoor gloves but still--they must have had a place to buy gloves!

Babe's husband seemed to be getting a better edit when he was at her treatments but now he's subtly criticizing her punctured hands? 

 

I don’t think there was a place to buy gloves at that point except in fall/winter. As you said, no one was wearing indoor gloves.

The show hasn’t made this point especially well, but I don’t think that Bill was moved to care for Babe during her illness out some finally-realized profound love for her. Bill loved his possessions. Babe was like a fine jewel or a nice piece of art. He had invested a lot into her and she was broken. He was angry that she was broken and could not be fixed. Him carping on her ruined hands would have been completely in character for him; it would have been like having a cracked vase on display in the front hall. I believe he remarried shortly after her death. While I loved Treat Williams (rest in peace) I’m having a hard time seeing him as Bill Paley because to me, he is forever Andy Brown from Everwood. 

[babyhouseman]

3 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

he remarried shortly

He never remarried, and he lived to be 89 so he was widowed for a long time. You'd think he'd need a wife for his ego.

[Elizzikra]

1 hour ago, babyhouseman said:

He never remarried, and he lived to be 89 so he was widowed for a long time. You'd think he'd need a wife for his ego.

My mistake - I thought I’d read that he remarried. I am surprised he did not, at least eventually. He did seem to need someone to manage all the social responsibilities expected of a wife in his generation. Maybe he finally figured out that girlfriends are cheaper?

[voiceover]

Eh.

A letdown after last week.  A few things stood out:

Babe’s steely spine in the face of mortality.  Respect for that.

Joanne’s house.  Mock it all you want, Babe — I liked it better than yours.

Truman’s eulogy.  This month is the anniversary of my father’s passing, so any kind of speech like this, pings hard.  I found myself weeping…then I stopped.

I knew, even as I was touched by the words, that they probably weren’t actually Truman’s.  And I didn’t feel moved anymore: just pissed off & exhausted.  I wanted to hear something — anything — of truth at this point.

A weird reaction to a drama based on real life. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 3/1/2024 at 5:54 PM, sistermagpie said:

Okay, I get that she was talking about indoor gloves but still--they must have had a place to buy gloves!

These would have been gloves wrapped in paper that involved a salesperson helping to fit her, the way shoes are fitted in a fine department store, not gloves hanging from a rack.

On 3/1/2024 at 5:54 PM, sistermagpie said:

Lee seems like just another person who happens to look much better with her hair down (seems nobody's told Babe her helmet looks ridiculous). I get nothing out of her talking about being divorced multiple times. It's not like i know to who or anything about it.

She was Jackie Kennedy's sister.

On 3/1/2024 at 5:54 PM, sistermagpie said:

The only other wife who I can identify is Molly Ringwald for being the goofy California wife so it's nice to see her.

Playing Johnny Carson's ex-wife 

 

[Mannahatta]

I had read "Answered Prayers" a few years ago. (I had wanted to read it, couldn't find it anywhere, but lo and behold, I found it in Brooklyn in a pile of books that someone had thrown out.) Anyway, I found the book to be so mean spirited that I really wondered about the writer. Was he a sociopath? Plus the writing wasn't so great. I had read In Cold Blood and was riveted by it, so I expected more - just like I did of this show.

Anyway, today I read an essay in the NYTimes, written by Babe Paley's granddaughter, Belle Burden. She writes: "I can accept that details are changed when real people are fictionalized. I know it is hard to capture the ineffable magic of someone’s presence. There are no live recordings of Babe, no way for an actress to know how she moved and spoke. What I cannot accept is the theft of my grandmother’s narrative." She describes Babe as an affectionate, brilliant, funny, well-read, charismatic, and having a "steely strength". She outlines all the falsehoods in the show, and adds that no one in her family was consulted "to lend color or truth to Babe’s portrait, to her strengths and struggles, her complexities and contradictions".

And this passage I found especially poignant: "My grandmother was wounded by Capote taking the things she told him, changing them, betraying her confidence and her privacy, which she guarded fiercely. Now her life has been stolen and twisted again, posthumously, by the creators of “Feud,” including the executive producer Ryan Murphy, the writer Jon Robin Baitz and the director Gus Van Sant. In the show, Babe is drawn as the ultimate victim: of her husband’s infidelity, Capote’s betrayal, her failing health. In victimhood, in her constant suffering, in the dramatic fabrications, she becomes one-dimensional, a woman defined by surfaces — a woman defined by men, reconstructing her life to suit their needs."

I thought her critique was pretty brilliant.

 https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/06/opinion/feud-swans-paley.html

[TakomaSnark]

I don't know why I can't stop watching. This series is so, so bad. Last night's episode was up there with the James Baldwin segment for sheer... You're not really doing this fantasyland garbage are you? Retreading the SAME BEATS for the umpteenth time, no less.

[Spartan Girl]

Loved Babe’s granddaughter ripping Murphy a new one. He hasn’t learned shit from getting sued by Olivia de Havilland or getting blasted by the family’s of Dahmer’s victims.

[Madding crowd]

I liked the first couple of episodes but this has devolved into a lot of pure fantasy and it’s just too much. I don’t think we need endless repetition of the swans image, we get it. They also seemed to struggle to find a way for the non Babe swans to appear in each episode. I would rather have heard more about Truman before the big feud and less about imaginary conversations and scenes.

[nora1992]

On 3/3/2024 at 2:00 PM, carrps said:

Yeah, totally. Did you see him in that Funny Woman show on PBS just a little while ago? I didn't even recognize him.

I recently slogged through the snoozefest that was Napoleon.  Everett was the best thing about the movie, nearly enough to not make me loathe it.  It was a pleasant surprise, since I’ve only seen him in comic roles.

[Maximona]

10 hours ago, Mannahatta said:

Anyway, today I read an essay in the NYTimes, written by Babe Paley's granddaughter, Belle Burden.

Judging from the last name, this would have been Amanda Burden's daughter. Amanda herself rather famously disliked her mother.

And Belle Burden had few compunctions about writing about her own ex-husband for the NYT's maudlin Modern Love series.  I daresay she did a bit of fictionalizing herself in that one.  (I suspect this because, in my own experience, people who say things about their intimates like, "I had no idea he was unhappy," are either lying or complete narcissists.)  You can read her earlier piece here:  https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/30/style/modern-love-married-to-a-stranger.html

I guess it's okay to air dirty laundry so long as nobody has menstruated on it.  😀

 

[txhorns79]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

He hasn’t learned shit from getting sued by Olivia de Havilland

In fairness to him, he won that lawsuit. 

Unless things turn around considerably with the final episode, the only thing I've really learned from this season of Feud is that there is actually very little to the feud between Capote and his friends, certainly there was not enough material for an eight episode miniseries.  Heck, that episode of Sex and the City where Samantha got banned from all the hot spots by the society mavens had greater stakes than this show. 

[AstaCharles]

56 minutes ago, Maximona said:

Judging from the last name, this would have been Amanda Burden's daughter. Amanda herself rather famously disliked her mother.

 

 

I watched the Capote Tapes documentary recently, I think it was Kate that talked  about being "banished" from home . I was curious what caused that. 

 

Edited March 7 by AstaCharles

[tennisgurl]

This episode had a lot going for it, mostly the performances, but it ended up mostly making me sad that there is clearly a much better story happening in this shows backstory. This show skipped over all of the most interesting parts of the story, Truman's heyday post In Cold Blood, the colorful lives of the Swans, the famous people they circled around, the actual friendship between Truman and the Swans that started this whole mess, they just leapfrogged all over that to focus on Truman's declining years and the Swans eating lunch and complaining about Truman for several episodes. Its classic RM, cut out all of the actual interesting stuff that really happened so you have more time to fill with long speeches and dream sequences. 

I sort of thought we already did the imaginary bittersweet makeup scene between Babe and Truman a few episodes ago, when she pictured them seeing each other on the street, but I guess that was her and not him? Does that warrant this whole episode?

[Maximona]

Amanda was the daughter from Babe's first marriage; Kate was the daughter from the second marriage (to Paley.)

I've read that none of Babe's children bothered to attend her funeral, but that allegation wasn't sourced, so I don't know if it's true.

And Episode 7 was a complete snooze fest.

[sistermagpie]

12 hours ago, Mannahatta said:

Anyway, today I read an essay in the NYTimes, written by Babe Paley's granddaughter, Belle Burden. She writes: "I can accept that details are changed when real people are fictionalized. I know it is hard to capture the ineffable magic of someone’s presence. There are no live recordings of Babe, no way for an actress to know how she moved and spoke. What I cannot accept is the theft of my grandmother’s narrative." She describes Babe as an affectionate, brilliant, funny, well-read, charismatic, and having a "steely strength". She outlines all the falsehoods in the show, and adds that no one in her family was consulted "to lend color or truth to Babe’s portrait, to her strengths and struggles, her complexities and contradictions".

 

Can't say I'm that convinced by what she's writing here since I don't see Babe in the show as being portrayed that way at all. Seems like the show keeps desperately trying to make her exactly as she's being described here and it just doesn't really work. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if I met the real Babe and it didn't work in person either. Not that I see her as a victim, but just that she seems like a rich, tasteful snob that her friends really liked and that's about it. How can she say they're trying to portray her as a victim when she's planning a big, perfect party for her own funeral? She did die of cancer and get cheated on and betrayed by Capote. How does one not show her as a victim of those things a bit? Is there some other thing she was that we're missing? Was she a brilliant physicist on the side or something?

As others have said, it seems like her children have some actual issues with her as a mother that are pretty extreme. And Babe died in 1978, which have made her granddaughter like 8 or 9 when she died. Hardly a personal expert on what the woman was really like.

My main thought at the end of this ep was "My god, how is this still not over?" It seems to be trying so hard to center Truman and Babe's relationship as so central and strong and sad to lose, and it's not that I don't think I'm getting it, particularly with the mentions of her taking care of him when he was sick that time and the two of them being catty about Joanne's house (too bad, she's still my fave), but sort of seems like CZ was the one he had the best friendship with. Not so much on his side (since he seems incapable) but she seems like the one who accepts him and sees him for what he is. Which is maybe why she didn't trust him with weapons to hurt her?

[sugarbaker design]

F: CvTS would've been so much better at four episodes.  There simply isn't enough story to warrant eight episodes.  I would've liked to have seen the aftermath on the writing of In Cold Blood, the end of his friendship with Harper Lee, really delving into TC's death spiral that started before The Swans.  It would've been nice to see the Swans before meeting TC, then TC infiltrating the circle with a stress on his money problems.  So much rich dramatic material not being used here, it's a shame.  And finally, what this show really needs is more camp!  After F:  BvJ I was hoping for some camp, but all we got was a teaspoon of it.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

It seems like the granddaughter is mostly complaining that the show portrayed Babe 1) as a bad mother, and 2) as still smoking after her lung cancer diagnosis. I can accept that the second was not true, and it does make her grandmother look kind of dumb if the show doesn't also doesn't portray her as at least trying to quit.

As for the first, you can be a terrific grandmother and a terrible mother. Unless your grandchildren live with you, you see them only occasionally, and (especially when you have a staff) aren't responsible for the more difficult and boring parts of child-rearing. It's easy to be the "fun" person with a grandchild. Babe was able to afford fake reproductions of her jewelry as gifts for her granddaughter. I have no doubt that she was a fantastic gift-giver with other people, too. With a child, there's 18 years of work involved, and it needs to be consistent, not sporadic, and more than just amazing gifts or even silly faces. I wonder if Babe was even part of her children's bedtime routine, as she was when Belle visited, because she likely would have been out socializing, or preparing to do so.  Unless Belle's mom convincingly told her how great a mom Babe was, there's no way she could possibly have an accurate opinion.

As an aside, when Babe took off her head-covering in front of her doctor to complain that the chemo she was receiving wasn't supposed to cause hair loss, I didn't see a bald spot. What, exactly, was she showing him? (Also, I hope she had requested the "best" chemo, not the "one least likely to result in hair loss".  She could afford the best wigs available.

Edited March 11 by ItCouldBeWorse

[carrps]

13 hours ago, Mannahatta said:

Anyway, I found the book to be so mean spirited that I really wondered about the writer. Was he a sociopath? Plus the writing wasn't so great. I had read In Cold Blood and was riveted by it, so I expected more - just like I did of this show.

Same for me. It seems this show is pushing Answered Prayers as Capote's great swan song (heh) where he recaptures his writing talent and goes out in glory. But everything I've heard about it is that it's bad, just really badly badly written.

What is the point of this series? Nothing coheres.

[sugarbaker design]

24 minutes ago, carrps said:

It seems this show is pushing Answered Prayers as Capote's great swan song (heh) where he recaptures his writing talent and goes out in glory.

It doesn't seem that way to me.  The show is pushing that after In Cold Blood, TC has pushed his humanity and talent aside, and is awash in booze, pills, self-pity and vicious bitterness.  The show is pushing Answered Prayers as a gossipy roman a clef, which it is.

Edited March 7 by sugarbaker design

[marceline]

What a hideous person Capote was. That's my takeaway from this series.

I admit that I always chafe against the stories where a tortured artist gets to treat the people in their life like shit until someone fights back. From What's Love Got to Do With It? to Priscilla (which I watched last week.)

Both Babe and Truman got beautiful dream scenes in death. Babe got to wear that gorgeous pink gown, Truman got to walk the beach, and they each got to be their best selves forever.

Babe dropping her funeral plans on the Swans during lunch was a kind of gut punch but I respected it. I have friends of a similar age and I think that's something friends should discuss.

[Cheezwiz]

5 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

but sort of seems like CZ was the one he had the best friendship with. Not so much on his side (since he seems incapable) but she seems like the one who accepts him and sees him for what he is. Which is maybe why she didn't trust him with weapons to hurt her?

From what I read, it sounds like CZ had a much more clear-eyed vision of who he was, accepted his flaws, but at the same time was very cautious about spilling details of her personal life to him.

This episode was mostly fantasy, and I guess it was to represent what may have been going on in Truman's head as he was passing away. I did like the metaphor of him fruitlessly diving for the pages of his unfinished book in the swimming pool.

I agree with a lot of the other posts - the series was a missed opportunity. Instead of interesting details about Truman's history with these women, it focused on repetitive episodes in the latter part of his life when things had already gone to hell. People in the throes of addiction make for really boring story subjects, because it's just an endless rinse/repeat cycle.

Kudos to Hollander for replicating the inebriated interview he did with the talk-show host. I've seen the real thing on YouTube, and he did a letter-perfect recreation. 

What are they doing in Episode 8 now that our two main subjects are deceased? The show definitely could have been done in 5-6 episodes.

Although Murphy didn't have as much to do with this series, it was pretty typical of his output - starts off promisingly, and then fizzles out.

 

[seacliffsal]

This series has had probably the opposite impact on me than what the creators anticipated.  I just wanted Truman to hurry up and die during this episode (the fictional Truman as I would not wish that on an actual living being).  The episode felt like it would never end.  I absolutely agree with those who think the back story of the relationships should have been included.  I have no idea why the Swans were even friends with each other.  And, yes, I will watch the final episode even though I do not find this to be riveting t.v.

[Snazzy Daisy]

S02•E07 - Beautiful Babe

Is it evil to say I feel relieved that Truman Capote has finally died? I have enough of his alcohol abuse issues and his stubbornness. Jack Dunphy and Joanne Carson must be a saint for putting up with Truman in his final years.

Babe Paley has curated her life to perfection to the very last moment. Appearance is everything. There’s one very questionable thing though - does Babe really imagine and think of Truman in her dying moment especially with her children all there by her deathbed? It’s overstretched. Then there’s a f-king swan in her tub. It’s bonkers. 

What’s left to tell in the finale after the death of its 2 main characters? Another sequence of flashbacks, hallucinations and the waspy after life?

[Maximona]

1 hour ago, Cheezwiz said:

What are they doing in Episode 8 now that our two main subjects are deceased?

I'm wondering that, too!!!!! 😀

5 hours ago, carrps said:

It seems this show is pushing Answered Prayers as Capote's great swan song

I think In Cold Blood is a great book.  And I like a lot of Capote's early writing—yeah, Other Voices, Other Rooms is overly sentimental & Gothic, but Miriam is a little gem & Breakfast at Tiffany's is fun.

I don't think anybody except possibly Capote himself thought the published portions of Answered Prayers were any good.  It's not the subject matter:  Proust betrayed the foibles (sexual & otherwise) of his rich friends, and it's considered great art.  La Côte Basque is just really badly written.

[Pi237]

I don't know why I keep watching either. Too many dream sequences, too much style over substance, too many repetitive circumstances.  Missed opportunity to tell a gripping story. I can't stand imagined scenes of what death was like for someone. Its always so pandering.  I feel like I've watched Truman get drunk and whine about the Swans, while the Swans smoked and whined about Truman for months.  So boring and frustrating because the good stuff was just hinted at and dropped.

[Quilt Fairy]

10 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

My main thought at the end of this ep was "My god, how is this still not over?"

OMG, yes!   The reviewer in the Daily Beast waxed rhapsodic about this episode for at least 10 paragraphs and I all I could think of was "What show are you watching?"

 

[iMonrey]

17 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

I don't know why I can't stop watching. This series is so, so bad. Last night's episode was up there with the James Baldwin segment for sheer... You're not really doing this fantasyland garbage are you? Retreading the SAME BEATS for the umpteenth time, no less.

I pulled this one up on the DVR, saw the runtime of one hour and eighteen minutes, and just groaned. This show is the ultimate definition of navel gazing. It's so "writerly," if that makes sense. Fantasy sequences and monologues galore. The writers are indulging in their worst impulses, perhaps in search of writing awards. 

This should have been the last episode. Hell, the show should have ended after about four episodes. And yet I have a morbid curiosity about what the hell they will do with one more episode. Not that I'm anxious to sit through it.

[TakomaSnark]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I pulled this one up on the DVR, saw the runtime of one hour and eighteen minutes, and just groaned. This show is the ultimate definition of navel gazing. It's so "writerly," if that makes sense. Fantasy sequences and monologues galore. The writers are indulging in their worst impulses, perhaps in search of writing awards. 

This should have been the last episode. Hell, the show should have ended after about four episodes. And yet I have a morbid curiosity about what the hell they will do with one more episode. Not that I'm anxious to sit through it.

Truman's drawn out death sequence was excruciating. Elaine Benes was in my head screaming, 'Just DIE already! Finish telling your stupid story and die!'

And the trailer for the finale has even MORE ridiculous swan imagery.

We. Get. It. 

This series has been the poster child for what it is when there's no 'there' there in a show. What have I been watching? Truman Capote getting drunk and crying every week. Women getting together for years and having nothing to talk about but whether or not they should be friends with him again.

I am that SpongeBob gif: Nobody cares!

 

Edited March 8 by TakomaSnark