S13.E07: Dazed and Accused

[Cheyanne11]

Kyle accusing anyone else of gaslighting is rich.  I think she truly believed this season she was going to come across as the strong martyr, somehow making lemonade out of lemons (maybe Erika can help her with that) and everyone would love her.  Now she's getting called out on her bullshit and she's furious and lashing out, trying to make Sutton the bad guy.  Problem is, anything Sutton is doing (calling her out) is something SHE has done in prior seasons, so she can miss me with thie 'poor Kyle' narrative.

Other observations:

AnnMarie is just another Kyle yes woman, so pass.

"Sweeping the floor with her coochie" is the best description of Kyle and her infamous splits ever.  Thank you, Garcelle.

LOL at Dorit waxing nostalgic on her long time friendship with Kyle and Mo and then the photo shown of them is a whole three years old.

[Sweet-tea]

On 12/7/2023 at 7:46 PM, Surrealist said:

One thing I always appreciated about Kyle is her love for her nephews and nieces. As she's said, she sees them as equal to her own children.

Kathy and Kim know how to get under Kyle's skin when they're angry with her. They restrict her access to their children. That burns Kyle's ass more than anything. 

It's triangulation and not uncommon in families like Kyle's when she was growing up. I had it in mine. It was very stressful because I never knew when I'd be the one who was on the outs. It was controlled by my mother. The other two sisters knew it was wrong but would do anything not to be the one ostracized. It's a sick, hurtful family dynamic that does damage for years. 

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This is what the Richard sisters do.. Kyle admitted this back in season 1 or 2 none of them get along all at the same time .. 

Yep. Kyle seems to always be on the outs with one of them. 

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And because of her "society" connections Kathy is the one that cuts everyone out.  I remember when one of her girls was getting married (Nikki?) and everyone in the fam was invited except Mo, putting Kyle in an awkward position.  If you are on the outs with Kathy then she makes sure that means you are on the outs with her kids too. 

It does seem like Kathy is pulling the strings most of the time. 

I like Denise and wish she hadn't showed up at the dinner so drunk and out of it. At one point it looked like Kyle was helping her walk. 

Surprised how quiet Camilla was. I barely heard a peep out of her. What was Cynthia Bailey doing there? Has she moved to LA?

Sutton's comment about Kyle's sisters didn't bother me because I loathe Kyle, especially this season. 
 

Quote

"Sweeping the floor with her coochie" is the best description of Kyle and her infamous splits ever.  Thank you, Garcelle.

Hilarious and I loved the producers for showing the clip!

Edited December 9, 2023 by Sweet-tea

[Baltimore Betty]

16 minutes ago, Sweet-tea said:

What was Cynthia Bailey doing there? Has she moved to LA?

I think maybe part time, she moved to LA when she married whatshisname and maybe she decided to stay, I wonder what has happened to Lake Bailey?

 

17 minutes ago, Sweet-tea said:

I like Denise and wish she hadn't showed up at the dinner so drunk and out of it. At one point it looked like Kyle was helping her walk. 

Navigating Denise to her car for sure.  The driver probably got a great work story from that ride home!

33 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

AnnMarie is just another Kyle yes woman, so pass.

100%! I think she has an interesting job like Nicole from RHoM, she makes plenty of money and is married to an ex footballer, surely she could stand on her own instead of hanging on to Kyle's every word and yessing her up and down. 

I guess we are at the point where people are doing away with tennis courts and putting in Pickle Ball courts. 

Let it be said now and let it be said by me, Pickle Ball is the new charcuterie board.

[65mickey]

Every time I see Kyle stretching and running I keep seeing SNL "I'm Sally O'Malley, I'm 50 and I can kick, stretch and kick."  If you want a laugh check out the one where she is at the  Bada Bing club auditioning for a dancing job.

[Pondlass1]

Is Kyle bow legged, tho?  She walks funny, kind of like a cowboy sometimes.  I’m not ragging on her … we’re all stuck with the body we inherit. I do wish they employed better stylists.  Some of the outfits look so ugly and so uncomfortable.  Kyle’s poor squished boobs. They must’ve ached the next day.

[Starlight925]

Neighborhoods have started complaining about Pickle ball, as the noise is extremely annoying, and it goes on for hours and hours.

But the ER's love it, as the injuries are extremely common.  I just read of a woman who lost her eye....not her eyesight, the whole eye....by getting whacked with a ball.

It's a huge fad now, and I suspect we will say in years to come....remember when everyone was playing Pickle ball?  What ever happened to that?  Goodwill will be filled with dusty paddles.

[pasdetrois]

6 hours ago, Cheyanne11 said:

I think she truly believed this season she was going to come across as the strong martyr, somehow making lemonade out of lemons (maybe Erika can help her with that) and everyone would love her.  Now she's getting called out on her bullshit and she's furious and lashing out, trying to make Sutton the bad guy.

She's losing the narrative battle, and the editors have a hand in this. Because the franchise has been steadily losing viewers and money over the years, Bravo is turning on its rag tag queen bees and promoting new shiny queen bees to try to save it. Re-creating classic scenes from older episodes, and bringing in old faves like Denise. Kyle is aghast that she's lost control of her marriage and her Housewives position.

I'm disappointed Denise was so out of it, because she had a chance to make a triumphant return and she blew it. She gave the others fresh fuel to make fun of her - raised eyebrows and meaningful looks, loaded comments. Also, I'm wondering if she's headed down a slippery slope...over-medicating, marriage to a controlling weirdo, joining OnlyFans to make money.

She may not have the money she once had. I think Aaron is essentially a freeloader. Several years ago I read a discussion she and Sheen had about how - because child support is monitored by the government - they did not enter into a formal child support agreement. Denise to the media multiple times: "I do not receive child support." I presume that instead he gave her loads of money, perhaps in amounts meant to reduce or avoid taxes and scrutiny (i.e., gift taxes).

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What was Cynthia Bailey doing there? Has she moved to LA?

After her marriage she moved to LA (she's now divorced). I always assumed she was angling for RHoBH or RHoOC. The dinner was an audition of sorts for Cynthia, Denise and Camille. Kind of like a focus group (those pesky falling ratings).

ETA: I see Baltimore Betty posted the same thing about Cynthia in LA.

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Neighborhoods have started complaining about Pickle ball, as the noise is extremely annoying, and it goes on for hours and hours.

Yes, we've had litigation and also requests for municipal rules about pickle ball, as some of its players are quite, um, enthusiastic about their rights to the municipal playing fields.

Edited December 9, 2023 by pasdetrois

[Surrealist]

5 hours ago, Sweet-tea said:

I like Denise and wish she hadn't showed up at the dinner so drunk and out of it. At one point it looked like Kyle was helping her walk. 

I wish she hadn't either, but at one point, when she was confronting Erika, she stopped and apologized to all of them for sounding off because she said she was still sick.

I think it was her being sick, medicated, and likely that she had a drink or two before showing up.

[RealHousewife]

Watching Denise, while entertaining, is also frustrating. I think she's one of the more kindhearted people who've been on RHOBH. But she is horrible about sticking up for herself, even when she's sober.

I totally understand why Erika and Dorit were confused. I wasn't totally clear what she meant regarding the convo with Erika. But my guess is she felt more kindness from Erika than some of the others, then felt like Erika joined the gang. Erika was sweet to Denise at first. I remember when they were at the beach, she said she wanted her "Bond Girl moment." It wasn't just joking about how hot she found Denise and Aaron. I think Denise was disappointed in Erika because she got more warmth from her than Kyle or Teddi.

Erika being cool about it did remind me of season 1 Erika, when I liked her. Maybe now that a load of stress has been taken off her shoulders, she's not the same Erika she's been the last couple seasons. Still hated how she treated Sutton regarding Magic Mike though.

The Dorit thing is more confusing because while Dorit can be an ass at times (yelling at Garcelle or calling Camille the C word for example), she isn't usually a nasty person and was one of the few who did NOT gang up on Denise. If I had something on the wrong way, I'd totally appreciate someone gently, quietly coming up and telling me the way Dorit did. Btw, Dorit is so adorable with less glam and the glasses on. Always thought she was really beautiful, but even a lot of beautiful women cannot pull off the glasses/light makeup look. 

On that superficial note, I will never get over Cynthia Bailey's beauty. She has to be one of the most gorgeous people ever. She and Garcelle are each drop dead gorgeous on their own, but when they're hanging out as friends, they must turn heads like crazy. It's like too much pretty. 

[Sweet-tea]

1 hour ago, Surrealist said:

I wish she hadn't either, but at one point, when she was confronting Erika, she stopped and apologized to all of them for sounding off because she said she was still sick.

I think it was her being sick, medicated, and likely that she had a drink or two before showing up.

I think she had much more than a drink or two. She was wasted. 

[pasdetrois]

49 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

If I had something on the wrong way, I'd totally appreciate someone gently, quietly coming up and telling me the way Dorit did.

Except Dorit did it on camera, knowing millions of people would see it. They are all aware their every movement and sound are captured during production. That's Dorit being passive-aggressive, pretending to be kind while making fun.

Dorit's party trick is to challenge another housewife while appearing to be thoughtful and rational, which she did with Sutton and Garcelle recently. The fake posh accent aids in the deception. She's also good at twisting people's words, or as another poster pointed out, cherry-picking only a portion of a conversation to focus on and thereby misdirecting the viewers. I think she practices before each shoot.

She's a master and it's gonna bite her in the butt one day. Sutton is learning how to calmly respond and Garcelle is getting better at it. The only thing protecting Dorit is the agreement among the housewives not to reveal too many real-life secrets about each other (and the husbands). I believe Dorit and PK are hiding some big humdingers.

Edited December 9, 2023 by pasdetrois

[Surrealist]

10 minutes ago, Sweet-tea said:

I think she had much more than a drink or two. She was wasted. 

I was just being kind, but I agree. 😉

[SemiCharmedLife]

7 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I guess we are at the point where people are doing away with tennis courts and putting in Pickle Ball courts. 

Let it be said now and let it be said by me, Pickle Ball is the new charcuterie board.

Yes! At my health club, they have converted every last tennis court to pickle ball.  Not even one remaining tennis court for the purists...

[Cosmocrush]

3 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

I totally understand why Erika and Dorit were confused. I wasn't totally clear what she meant regarding the convo with Erika.

I've found Erika so nasty horrible the last couple years so I just figured Denise could be talking about anything, probably more an overall thing than just one example.  But then she told Garcelle that it was the thing with Erika's nasty comments around her kids,  at her party.

[RealHousewife]

3 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

Except Dorit did it on camera, knowing millions of people would see it. They are all aware their every movement and sound are captured during production. That's Dorit being passive-aggressive, pretending to be kind while making fun.

Millions would also see the jacket on backwards though, and I don't think that moment would have aired if Denise just said thank you and moved on. Trust me, I like Denise better than Dorit too. I just don't think Dorit has the cruelty in her some of the others do or that she's bad all the time. The main thing I don't like about Dorit is the sketchiness the Kemsleys have regarding money. But as far as interactions with people in general, I see Dorit as a kinder, gentler person than Kyle, Erika, Rinna, and Teddi. The least nasty of the Fox Force 5 basically. Just my opinion, obviously. :)

My favorites are definitely Garcelle and Sutton. 

[funnygirl]

 

When THEE Julia Roberts is quoting you/performing as you, you've won the war. (also, she was giving me a little bit of her Shelby vibes from Steel Magnolias. lol) 

Sutton: 1 billion
Kyle: 0

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by funnygirl

[Sweet-tea]

19 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

Also, I'm wondering if she's headed down a slippery slope...over-medicating, marriage to a controlling weirdo, joining OnlyFans to make money.

I've wondered if Denise has a substance abuse problem. She knew they were filming and it was her first opportunity to come back. Why would she show up in that condition? 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Sweet-tea

[Starlight925]

Overly Botox'd/Filler-injected, upside-down/backwards jacket-wearing, slurring Denise was not fun to watch.  She should be a study for any girl who wants to be a supermodel, with a string of horrible relationships from the chaotic Charlie Sheen to controlling Aaron, to her terrible relationships with her own children.

Bet she took this latest gig for money.  Such a fall from grace.

[Baltimore Betty]

1 minute ago, Starlight925 said:

Overly Botox'd/Filler-injected, upside-down/backwards jacket-wearing, slurring Denise was not fun to watch.  She should be a study for any girl who wants to be a supermodel, with a string of horrible relationships from the chaotic Charlie Sheen to controlling Aaron, to her terrible relationships with her own children.

Bet she took this latest gig for money.  Such a fall from grace.

I'd be more concerned for her drug/alcohol use/abuse than I would be concerned about her sleeping with Brandi at this point. 

If she came in with the mission of truth bombing everyone at the table slurring and what not then making her exit it would have been epic but I felt like I shouldn't be seeing her stumble physically and verbally.

 

[Cosmocrush]

1 hour ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I'd be more concerned for her drug/alcohol use/abuse than I would be concerned about her sleeping with Brandi at this point. 

If she came in with the mission of truth bombing everyone at the table slurring and what not then making her exit it would have been epic but I felt like I shouldn't be seeing her stumble physically and verbally.

 

Which tells us how much of these "friendships" are real or even just how much the RH support one another.  Someone (Camille since she came with Denise?) should have suggested Denise skip this particular event since she clearly was impaired beyond tipsy or even a little stoned.  Instead, both the show and the other women kept her there and on camera. 

This wasn't The Countess stumbling into the shrubs (which was hilarious) this was someone not having fun and not in control of herself and the show had no problem showcasing that fact. 

 

[hoodooznoodooz]

Ronnie and Ben point out that Dorit’s preference to (pay some other adults to) homeschool her son and daughter, because she’s still experiencing PTSD, doesn’t really make sense, since the school room is actually the room the thieves broke into through the sliding glass doors. I’m not 100% sure that it’s the same room. But in the past, Ronnie and Ben have proved themselves to be brilliant fact-checkers. 

[heatherchandler]

2 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Ronnie and Ben point out that Dorit’s preference to (pay some other adults to) homeschool her son and daughter, because she’s still experiencing PTSD, doesn’t really make sense, since the school room is actually the room the thieves broke into through the sliding glass doors. I’m not 100% sure that it’s the same room. But in the past, Ronnie and Ben have proved themselves to be brilliant fact-checkers. 

Totally!

Its like someone said above- they can’t afford the fancy private schools and they would dare to send them to public school, so they only have one choice.

[RealHousewife]

2 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Ronnie and Ben point out that Dorit’s preference to (pay some other adults to) homeschool her son and daughter, because she’s still experiencing PTSD, doesn’t really make sense, since the school room is actually the room the thieves broke into through the sliding glass doors. I’m not 100% sure that it’s the same room. But in the past, Ronnie and Ben have proved themselves to be brilliant fact-checkers. 

I didn't think of that! Maybe Dorit thinks this way she can at least keep an eye on her kids at all times? 

Ronnie and Ben are the best. I only started listening to this week's recap. I think it was Ronnie who bought up Kyle's lack of sympathy for LVP and others and wanting sympathy herself now. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by RealHousewife

[CSunshine76]

It dawned on me that PK “doesn’t understand” Dorito’s PTSD because he knows she was never in real danger. She seems to have taken her fear to the extreme, and he’s over it because she was never going to be harmed, just “robbed.”

[Glama]

On 12/9/2023 at 5:06 PM, Pondlass1 said:

Is Kyle bow legged, tho?  She walks funny, kind of like a cowboy sometimes.  I’m not ragging on her … we’re all stuck with the body we inherit. 

 

I've noticed it, too. It makes me think of how she was impersonating Teddi's way of walking and how everyone was laughing hard about it, but I've thought for a while now that now she walks in the exact same way. Joke's on her.

 

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Glama

[MaggieG]

17 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Ronnie and Ben are the best. I only started listening to this week's recap. I think it was Ronnie who bought up Kyle's lack of sympathy for LVP and others and wanting sympathy herself now. 

They also mentioned that while Denise did herself no favors showing up wasted, Erika and Kyle were totally gaslighting her by pretending they had no idea what she was talking about. I love Ronnie and Ben, I hope they do another tour soon!

[MissFeatherbottom]

On 12/9/2023 at 8:25 AM, 65mickey said:

Every time I see Kyle stretching and running I keep seeing SNL "I'm Sally O'Malley, I'm 50 and I can kick, stretch and kick."  If you want a laugh check out the one where she is at the  Bada Bing club auditioning for a dancing job.

HA!!! I can't unsee this now!!  I"m 50...YEARS.....OLD....FIFTYYY!!! 

[Natalie68]

On 12/9/2023 at 6:25 AM, 65mickey said:

Every time I see Kyle stretching and running I keep seeing SNL "I'm Sally O'Malley, I'm 50 and I can kick, stretch and kick."  If you want a laugh check out the one where she is at the  Bada Bing club auditioning for a dancing job.

Sally O'Malley is my spirit animal

[psychoticstate]

Denise was a hot mess at that dinner but cleaned up by lunch with Garcelle, Sutton, and Cystal -- and I still love her.

So every dinner with these "ladies" ends up a disaster.  On what planet would adding weed make it any better?  

I've been watching RHOBH since day one and I distinctly remember Kyle screeching about how marijuana was a gateway drug.  I guess she changed her mind.  

Faye can STFU.  I'll listen to Camille calling her the morally corrupt Faye Resnick forever though.  

So now Erika is claiming her marriage to Tom was an arrangement?  Didn't she try and tell us for years that she fell in love with him, it was a love match, she loved older men, etc.? 

Good on Annemarie for not even hesitating to tell the ladies her height and weight.  You go, girl. 

Garcelle is still the queen in my book.  #Garcelleforthewin

Kim's artwork is actually very good -- although drawing all over her walls is a bit eccentric.  Does Amazon not deliver paper to her house?  

[goofygirl]

Old skinny Kyle is just running that old, TIRED flag up the flagpole.  All she's ever done is stir the turd and hide.  Same old thing.

Whatever Big Kathy did to ALL her daughters, they should be able to consider it in their actions & reactions.  Jeebus. Waaaayy past time for Kathy, Kim & Kyle to get on with their lives and figure out where they need help.  All THREE of them need help.

In the meantime, can we get back to pretty places and get some good old  house porn?  

 

[ladle]

On 12/6/2023 at 9:06 PM, RoseAllDay said:

Loved Mikey giving career advice.

Was Mikey slightly less terrible in that scene than he usually is, or is it like the women's frozen, reworked faces where I've become so inured to them over time that they start seeming more and more okay and normal? 

FWIW, PK also seemed normal and reasonable in this episode... 

[ladle]

New Girl questioning Sutton's esophageal disorder was giving me "Dr. Terry saying Alexis's nose job had to be purely cosmetic" vibes. Has anyone else been around long enough to remember that episode of RHOOC or just me?  

[ladle]

On 12/7/2023 at 7:22 AM, Pi237 said:

But I feel like we’re missing a step that explains Sutton’s new hatred for Kyle. 

I'm so interested in knowing the actual order of operations here. Did Kyle get wind that Sutton was going to use the cheating rumors as a plot point, and retaliate by bringing up Sutton's drinking? Or, did Sutton get wind that Kyle was going to use "Sutton's a drunk" as a plot point, and retaliate by bringing up the cheating rumors? The editing of the show makes it seem like the former, but perhaps it's the latter?

Regardless, *reclines and lights up a J*, I'm immensely enjoying this season. 

[ladle]

On 12/7/2023 at 12:11 PM, TattleTeeny said:

I'm amused by Dorit's casual jeans ensembles. Never thought I'd be dressed similarly to her of all people.

Dorit's one of my least favorite Housewives, but I have to say that she looks absolutely gorgeous in jeans, a sweater, and glasses. I wish she'd stop messing around with fussy outfits and tinfoil in her hair, but I guess I don't understand faaaaashun. 

[ladle]

On 12/10/2023 at 5:27 PM, heatherchandler said:

Its like someone said above- they can’t afford the fancy private schools and they would dare to send them to public school, so they only have one choice.

I was totally shocked to hear PK say that he wanted to send the kids "back to public school." That just seems so off-brand for them! 

[izabella]

7 hours ago, ladle said:

I'm so interested in knowing the actual order of operations here. Did Kyle get wind that Sutton was going to use the cheating rumors as a plot point, and retaliate by bringing up Sutton's drinking? Or, did Sutton get wind that Kyle was going to use "Sutton's a drunk" as a plot point, and retaliate by bringing up the cheating rumors? The editing of the show makes it seem like the former, but perhaps it's the latter?

Regardless, *reclines and lights up a J*, I'm immensely enjoying this season. 

I think it has to do with Kathy.  Kyle said earlier this season that Sutton (and Crystal?) is friendly with Kathy and goes to her parties and socializes with her.  And that irritates Kyle, because Kyle is mad at Kathy and expects Sutton to also be mad at Kathy.  Also because Kyle wasn't included, and they didn't miss her one bit.

So Kyle came into the season mad at Sutton about that, and started in with the drinking theme to get back at her and to distract from her Mauricio problems.  But I have no understanding of where his cheating and the fallout and Kyle's new tattoo relationship fall in the timeline of this season. 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by izabella

[pasdetrois]

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I was totally shocked to hear PK say that he wanted to send the kids "back to public school." That just seems so off-brand for them! 

I wonder if PK used "public school" in the British way, which refers to what Americans think of as private school.

But agree home-schooling could be a guise for "can't afford private school."

[politichick]

12 hours ago, izabella said:

I think it has to do with Kathy.  Kyle said earlier this season that Sutton (and Crystal?) is friendly with Kathy and goes to her parties and socializes with her.  And that irritates Kyle, because Kyle is mad at Kathy and expects Sutton to also be mad at Kathy.  Also because Kyle wasn't included, and they didn't miss her one bit.

So Kyle came into the season mad at Sutton about that, and started in with the drinking theme to get back at her and to distract from her Mauricio problems.  But I have no understanding of where his cheating and the fallout and Kyle's new tattoo relationship fall in the timeline of this season. 

 

Crystal also is friends with Kathy and I think both were friends with her before joining the show. Ha! They probably knew about Paris's baby before Vyle.

[OlderThanDirt]

Regarding Kyle going up to bed while others cleaned up: she also went up while the camera crew was still there so they could film her trudging upstairs.

Also I couldn't believe they came to Dorit's just to film that conversation with the kids. And during the later conversation with PK I kept expecting him to suggest sending Jaegger to boarding school in England.  I can't imagine the household dynamics being conducive to getting those children out the door in time for public school.

[ladle]

8 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

I wonder if PK used "public school" in the British way, which refers to what Americans think of as private school.

I did actually have that same thought. 

[blixie]

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I think it was her being sick, medicated, and likely that she had a drink or two before showing up.

I am not having the editors or the audience shade Denise for, over the course of four years on this show off/on, getting blasted exactly once on camera, and due to justifiable nerves and illness making it one for the books. It was super clear she was anxious about returning, as she said to Camille before they went in maybe they should skip it and go to In and Out. Camille also seemed drunk but just not locaciously so. And as usual she was great tv, "is yours upside down?!" LOL.