S05.E03: The Paradox of Intermediate Transactions

[Bort]

Quote

Dot and Wayne protect their home, Roy neutralizes an obstacle. Witt suspects foul play and Gator makes a move.

Airdate: November 28, 2023

[AimingforYoko]

OK, so Munch is going to be like the UFO in Season 2: A weird, season-long thing that's going to have no real explanation.

[DMK]

Ummm, so Munch is supposed to be some sort of immortal who sold his soul? Is that the gist of that England flashback 500 years ago?

I loved Dot messing with the street signs. And the woman really knows her guns. Guess she wasn’t used to the waiting period from being around Roy. 

[LadyintheLoop]

Munch is a sin eater.

[Blakeston]

Wouldn't the obvious thing be for the injured cop to immediately alert his superiors that Gator stole the evidence?

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Fargo has relied on the mystical a great deal.  See Malvo, raining fish in Winter, and other physical impossibilities in the known universe.  Add Munch.

I about fell out of my chair as the police chief explained that a state trooper was murdered and the suspect was still at large.  Way too much real world stuff intruding in this ep.

Roy insisted that he believed in Gator.  Has a bigger lie ever been told in this series?

[Starchild]

Well that certainly took a little bit of a Lynchian turn.

[possibilities]

This show might be too creepy for me to watch before bed.

[thuganomics85]

Never would have predicted a season of Fargo would feature an appearance from Wales in the 1500s!  So, Munch/the hitman is some kind of immortal Sin Eater or something?  I wonder if we'll ever get the full story or if this will be one of the unexplained mystery this show tends to have.

Sounds like Roy really isn't actually in charge of the criminal enterprise and is more of a cog in the wheel.  Makes sense: his bravado does give off like he's overcompensating all of the time and lashing out in a way the worst kind of middle manager would.  Still better than Gator, who is clearly the fuck-up that keeps skating by because his daddy has connections, heh.

Lorraine might be the smuggest of them all, but she isn't far off about how the idea of police means almost nothing to the likes of her and the other rich folks, since law enforcement never seem to be able to hold the upper classes' feet to the fire.  Lets see if Deputy Indira can prove her wrong! 

Hey, Roy's new wife is played by Rebecca Liddiard, who I remember from that one season show, Houdini & Doyle years ago!  Good to see her again.

Love you, Joe Keery, but I so want Deputy Farr to beat the crap out of Gator with his crutches, when this is all said and done.

Dot switching the street signs was fun, but really could only be a brief delay thanks to GPSs and whatnot.  If only this was set back in the earlier years and not 2019!

[seacliffsal]

I just don't care about John Hamm's character's backstory.  His twins appear close in age to Dot's daughter.  Hmmmm.  Liked the gun shop scene as it shows there is so much more to Dot.  

And, I really agree with a poster above-why didn't Witt alert someone that the deputy stole evidence.  They could have searched him before he even left the building.  State police would have jurisdiction over county law enforcement.

I feel like they are really trying to insert way too much current issues into the story when all I want is an entertaining story with twists and turns that is entertaining.

[NoReally]

"I live here now." Talk about creepy!

[SnarkAttack]

I'm a bit confused, because, well, I just am.

Dot is in Scandia, MN and the kidnapping took place there.  She escaped somewhere in ND and Deputy Farr was injured there and is from there.  Correct?

Indira is a police officer from MN, right?  She is investigating the kidnapping.  Deputy Farr was in a hospital in ND, correct, not the Twin Cities?  Indira went to see him in ND because of his being shot as part of the kidnapping she's investigating.  When we see Roy's spawn looking for evidence to steal, he's in ND, which is why Deputy Farr hobbled  in because he's also in ND.  

Is that right?  I am just confused because of the interaction between Indira, Farr and the spawn.

 

[cdnalor]

Dot's husband reminds me of Andy Samberg, but toned waaay down.

[Crashcourse]

59 minutes ago, SnarkAttack said:

I'm a bit confused, because, well, I just am.

Same here.  I don't understand half of what's going on, and maybe it's just me, but sometimes the dialogue sounds muffled to my ears.  

I thought Season 4 was bad, but this one is getting there as well. 

And it was nighttime, I still don't understand how the hell Dot was able to climb a ladder and change street signs without anyone seeing her.

The only thing I'm interested in is seeing how Deputy Farr fucks up Gator.   That is my only wish.  

 

[DMK]

3 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I really agree with a poster above-why didn't Witt alert someone that the deputy stole evidence.  They could have searched him before he even left the building.  State police would have jurisdiction over county law enforcement.

Yeah, there’s an inventory log too, you can’t just empty a box and no one has a clue what was in there in the first place. Not to mention, Gator left his damn card. They’ll know who did it. And he apparently has a track record of evidence tampering, as Witt’s google search illustrated. 

45 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

I don't understand half of what's going on, and maybe it's just me, but sometimes the dialogue sounds muffled to my ears.  

I turned the volume way up and had to turn on the captions a few times, mostly for the Munch scenes. I was having a hard time hearing. 

And it was nighttime, I still don't understand how the hell Dot was able to climb a ladder and change street signs without anyone seeing her.

If it’s typical suburbia and it’s 3am, there ain’t no one around. Although in my area, the mosquito fogger drivers might see you.

[Starchild]

3 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I just don't care about John Hamm's character's backstory.  His twins appear close in age to Dot's daughter.  Hmmmm.

This comment reminds me of a "did he just say that?" moment I had watching this.

When Roy and Gator are discussing the deputy that Munch stabbed to death, I thought I heard Roy say they had to inform his fiancees. Plural. Did anyone else hear that?

Is it possible that in Roy's little kingdom, they have polygamy? Could Dot have been his wife at the same time as the other lady? And they both got pregnant at the same time? And this is one of the reasons Dot decided she couldn't stay with this guy?

I say "one of" because clearly he has some out-of-the box (see what I did there?) sexual peccadilloes as well.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Starchild

[Tom Holmberg]

1 hour ago, Crashcourse said:

maybe it's just me, but sometimes the dialogue sounds muffled to my ears.  

Me too.  I thought it was age.

[Maire]

Starchild I also heard fiancees.

[iMonrey]

I only heard one fiancee.

This stuff with Munch and the flashback to Wales in the 1500s is a bit too much. I know this show has always tipped into a bit of the supernatural here and there but this seems way too weird. It's also completely unnecessary. They've got a very good story with Dot and Roy. We've got Deputy Witt in ND and Indira in MN. We've got the fabulous Jennifer Jason Leigh chewing the scenery like nobody's business with Dave Foley as a sidekick. We've got Jon Hamm and Joe Keery. Sure, there's always a kooky hitman thrown into the mix too but do we really need this overly weird connection to England circa 1500?? It's too much.

6 hours ago, SnarkAttack said:

Dot is in Scandia, MN and the kidnapping took place there.  She escaped somewhere in ND and Deputy Farr was injured there and is from there.  Correct?

Indira is a police officer from MN, right?  She is investigating the kidnapping.  Deputy Farr was in a hospital in ND, correct, not the Twin Cities?  Indira went to see him in ND because of his being shot as part of the kidnapping she's investigating.  When we see Roy's spawn looking for evidence to steal, he's in ND, which is why Deputy Farr hobbled  in because he's also in ND.  

Is that right?  I am just confused because of the interaction between Indira, Farr and the spawn.

Sounds like you've got it down. What are you confused about?

[Jodithgrace]

I get the whole  Welsh sin eater thing, though I agree it’s totally unnecessary to the already convoluted plot. But what I don’t understand is Munch moving in with some random old lady who doesn’t seem to care. And at the very end, after he got himself all dirtied up and ready for action, where did he go? Whose house was that…the little old lady’s? She’s not going to happy about her carpets, though nothing much seems to bother her as long as she has her beer and tv. 

[iMonrey]

48 minutes ago, Jodithgrace said:

I get the whole  Welsh sin eater thing, though I agree it’s totally unnecessary to the already convoluted plot. But what I don’t understand is Munch moving in with some random old lady who doesn’t seem to care. And at the very end, after he got himself all dirtied up and ready for action, where did he go? Whose house was that…the little old lady’s? She’s not going to happy about her carpets, though nothing much seems to bother her as long as she has her beer and tv. 

I *think* that's his mother. He called her ma or something as he left the house.

And I *think* that's Roy's house he walked into at the end. You could see antlers hanging up on the wall. 

[The Wild Sow]

8 hours ago, Starchild said:

When Roy and Gator are discussing the deputy that Munch stabbed to death, I thought I heard Roy say they had to inform his fiancees. Plural. Did anyone else hear that?

Is it possible that in Roy's little kingdom, they have polygamy? Could Dot have been his wife at the same time as the other lady? And they both got pregnant at the same time? And this is one of the reasons Dot decided she couldn't stay with this guy?

I rewound a little to see if I heard that correctly -- the captions actually had it as "fiancee's" -- as in, go over to his fiancee's (house, place, etc...) and do the notification.  But yeah, I suspect a little polygamy going on in Roy's little fiefdom, too.  For one thing, Dot/Nadine seems a little too young to be Gator's mother, even if she was a child bride.  And I can't see her abandoning a child even to escape Roy; she'd find a way to get her son out too.  Plus...he'd know if she was his mom, so there must have been a Wife #1 before her.

 

10 hours ago, SnarkAttack said:

Dot is in Scandia, MN and the kidnapping took place there.  She escaped somewhere in ND and Deputy Farr was injured there and is from there.  Correct?

Indira is a police officer from MN, right?  She is investigating the kidnapping.  Deputy Farr was in a hospital in ND, correct, not the Twin Cities?  Indira went to see him in ND because of his being shot as part of the kidnapping she's investigating.  When we see Roy's spawn looking for evidence to steal, he's in ND, which is why Deputy Farr hobbled  in because he's also in ND.  

Is that right?  I am just confused because of the interaction between Indira, Farr and the spawn.

Yeah, Fargo's playing fast & loose with the geography again (as TV shows are wont to do!)  Hey, most of the movie, and the show, are set nowhere near actual Fargo!  Scandia is a little northeast of St. Paul, right along the Wisconsin border.  Stark County - a real place, I learned - is all the way on the other end of North Dakota, almost to Montana.  A little over 540 miles apart. About an 8 hour drive on I-94.  How did Dot get home?  Did she walk?  Hitchhike?  Take a bus (which would mean she had or acquired money.)  

I was half-expecting to find out that Witt's police car was gone after the gas station shootout, and for it to be found abandoned somewhere near Dot's home!

Edited November 30, 2023 by The Wild Sow

[Starchild]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I *think* that's his mother. He called her ma or something as he left the house.

I think that was metaphorical, how some people call elderly women "mother".

I think that was a fairly common practice in old Britain.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Starchild

[MerBearStare]

2 hours ago, The Wild Sow said:

But yeah, I suspect a little polygamy going on in Roy's little fiefdom, too.

I watched the first two episodes with my mom when I was home for Thanksgiving and I mentioned to her that Dot reminded me of a character in the horror movie You're Next. In that movie a rich family is being hunted in their home by some murderers, but the girlfriend of one of the family members grew up in a survivalist cult, so she knew how to make rudimentary weapons and where and where not to hide. I'm also wondering if Roy and the North Dakota group are part of a religious/anti-government survivalist cult-like group, which includes polygamy. That would also explain why the current wife is ok with a wedding photo of Roy and Dot still hanging on the wall.

[HelloooKitty]

Well, that was a confusing ending. 

[aghst]

7 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

I get the whole  Welsh sin eater thing, though I agree it’s totally unnecessary to the already convoluted plot. But what I don’t understand is Munch moving in with some random old lady who doesn’t seem to care. And at the very end, after he got himself all dirtied up and ready for action, where did he go? Whose house was that…the little old lady’s? She’s not going to happy about her carpets, though nothing much seems to bother her as long as she has her beer and tv. 

Yeah they could have had a conventional backstory for him and it would still have kept the character interesting.

Just because he talks in a weird way, why come up with some exotic back story?

But Hawley often had this kind of digression in Legion all the time, instead of maintaining a linear narrative for several episodes, it would go in all these different directions.

In any event, he wanted to be paid, more than they agreed.  Then maybe he would have gone his way and never have been heard from again?

Dot just wanted some warning that they were coming, which is the idea behind the street signs, to make the invaders hesitate, try to confirm they're at the right place.

Roy thought Dot/Nadine was dead and now thinks it's some gift that she's still alive.  So basically he wants her back, wants her more than his current wife?

But again delegates the task to Gator and his summer camp buddies -- something tells me they're even less competent than Gator.

How about Lorraine's dismissive attitude of the police?  Yeah that works in a small town but she's supposedly running a big business.  She'd never talk to the cops directly, she'd have some smooth lawyer who'd be more diplomatic.

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by aghst

[TakomaSnark]

7 hours ago, MerBearStare said:

 I'm also wondering if Roy and the North Dakota group are part of a religious/anti-government survivalist cult-like group, which includes polygamy. That would also explain why the current wife is ok with a wedding photo of Roy and Dot still hanging on the wall.

I think that's exactly it; I said in the prior thread that Roy and his set up was giving me Cliven Bundy/David Koresh vibes, with very unspoken MAGA currency.

[Tatum]

8 hours ago, MerBearStare said:

I mentioned to her that Dot reminded me of a character in the horror movie You're Next. In that movie a rich family is being hunted in their home by some murderers, but the girlfriend of one of the family members grew up in a survivalist cult, so she knew how to make rudimentary weapons and where and where not to hide. I'm also wondering if Roy and the North Dakota group are part of a religious/anti-government survivalist cult-like group

I thought that too! (about the comparison to Dot and the final girl in that movie). Although, that seems inconsistent with Roy's ramblings in the previous episode that the woman is submissive to her husband and in turn, he 'protects' her. I mean, I can believe he stockpiles weapons and has elementary school age kids practice shooting, but based on the first episode I would assume he only extended that to the boys and men.

 

But the third episode seemed quite different from the first two to me- almost like an entirely different show. I definitely did not like the 3rd episode as much as the first two. (Although Dot and Wayne at Gun World was hilarious. I actually really like Wayne. And I  don't see him as a pushover- I think he actually just really respects and trusts his wife, and believes she has her reasons for what she does and knows what to do).

 

I  have a hard time believing Roy's influence is so much that state police are intimidated by Gator, or that Gator's admission that he beat a high school rival with a tire iron would be just shrugged off. Not to mention, the guy tampered with evidence and explicitly threatened another police officer.

 

Speaking of Gator, is Roy trying to get him killed? A professional who got the upper hand against Gator twice (and both times the guy was outnumbered) barely escaped with his life from Dot, and Roy wants to send Gator and his low IQ friends to finish the job on Dot? It should be pretty clear at this point that Gator is extremely incompetent at anything, and he wants him to try and carry out a kidnapping across state lines of a prominent, well connected suburban mom? Yes, this should end well.

5 hours ago, aghst said:

How about Lorraine's dismissive attitude of the police?  Yeah that works in a small town but she's supposedly running a big business.  She'd never talk to the cops directly, she'd have some smooth lawyer who'd be more diplomatic.

Yes, that was absolutely unnecessary to call them back just to tell them how ineffectual they were. She can privately think it all she wants- to go out of her way to let them know how little she thinks of them just seems like looking for trouble.

 

But based on Fargo's previous seasons, the fastest way to get your ass handed to you is to prattle on about how untouchable you are.

[Ottis]

8 hours ago, HelloooKitty said:

Well, that was a confusing ending. 

I think what was happening there was pretty clear. Back to that in a second. First, for a while I got the feeling that Munch and Roy know each other and are both time-traveling elements that have crossed paths before. Maybe still true, but after a while it seemed to fade and feel more like Munch is the random chaos element who enters an existing struggle that Roy might have won against out-numbered Dot, but Munch will equalize it.

BTW, Munch feels a lot like The Swede from Hell on Wheels to me.

Back to the end ... Munch is a mystical element (whether actual time traveling or just a modern dude with mental problems and a book, I don't know, yet) who now has a grudge against Roy for not paying him and trying to kill him. So Munch followed his mystical process to go hunting for Roy, and managed to sneak past (or kill) guards at Roy's house and walk into the front door, in a house where Roy's wife and two kids are sleeping. 

Meanwhile, Gator and his dorks finally stumble upon the right house and Dottie was expecting them and sees them. I am less puzzled by why no one saw Dottie changing street signs then why those signs were not immediately corrected the next morning when local residents noticed and called it in. Street signs are serious shit.

The show almost lost me at the England flashback, but I am interested in what Munch represents in current time so as long as they keep flashbacks to a minimum, I'm good with that.

This ep showed Dottie as being far more knowledgeable, and apparently capable, than she has shown in her actions we have seen. Her level of prep is far below her knowledge if she is just now looking at guns and is stymied by the mandatory waiting period (which recalls the hilarious line from The Simpsons when Homer goes to buy a gun and has to wait, and moans, "But I'm mad now!"). 

MIxed feelings overall, but hanging in more for Munch vs. Roy than Dottie.

 

[DMK]

10 hours ago, MerBearStare said:

I'm also wondering if Roy and the North Dakota group are part of a religious/anti-government survivalist cult-like group

The guy Roy was talking to in his living room who wanted to move a gun shipment was taking about “1776” and other various revolutionary posturing. Definitely seems like Roy is presiding over some militia compound.

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

I am less puzzled by why no one saw Dottie changing street signs then why those signs were not immediately corrected the next morning when local residents noticed and called it in. Street signs are serious shit.

They may not have noticed. I honestly never look at my neighborhood street signs, why would I? I know the way without looking. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by DMK

[Dev F]

8 hours ago, aghst said:

Yeah they could have had a conventional backstory for him and it would still have kept the character interesting.

Just because he talks in a weird way, why come up with some exotic back story?

But Hawley often had this kind of digression in Legion all the time, instead of maintaining a linear narrative for several episodes, it would go in all these different directions.

I wouldn't call it a digression, since it reflects Munch's role in the main story: as a hired gun, he's still a sin eater, dirtying his own hands for other people who don't want to get their hands dirty in exchange for money.

Noah Hawley has talked about how that's a central idea of the whole series for him, how people do terrible things "for a little bit of money." So to me it's interesting how Munch is doing all these horrible things because of some deep sense of entitlement to what he's "owed." It seems like a way for him to find moral justification for the violence that would be coming out whether people paid him or not. Because if he's not doing it for the money, he's not a sin eater, he's just a sinner.

[Starchild]

12 hours ago, MerBearStare said:

That would also explain why the current wife is ok with a wedding photo of Roy and Dot still hanging on the wall.

Of course, we talk like Roy even allows her to have an opinion, let alone voice one.

[roughing it]

8 hours ago, aghst said:

Just because he talks in a weird way

He's talkin' the Walken

[meep.meep]

At least this explains why Munch appeared to be wearing a dress in the other episodes.

I officially need that No sign behind Lorraine's desk.

[Ottis]

5 hours ago, DMK said:

They may not have noticed. I honestly never look at my neighborhood street signs, why would I? I know the way without looking. 

This reminds me of a Mod Squad episode (the original series in the 70s) where the cop boss went to a high school to talk to jaded kids on career day. And in his talk, he preached the importance of observation to be a successful cop. A smart ass kid challenged him, asking him to answer several questions about minute details around him without looking, like what time the stuck clock on the wall reads, and what color tie a teacher is wearing (the teacher wasn't wearing a tie - zing!). And the cop nails every one of the details, without looking.

I would definitely notice if the street signs were different in my neighborhood, even if I knew the way. But aside from that, with visitors and deliveries and people walking dogs and who knows what else happening each day, *someone* should have noticed.

6 hours ago, Tatum said:

But the third episode seemed quite different from the first two to me- almost like an entirely different show. I definitely did not like the 3rd episode as much as the first two.

It was the ep that showed behind the curtains a bit for the season. It seems like every Fargo season has that ep, though I agree that in prior seasons it was more subtle than a time jump to the 1500s. Well, there was the UFO.

 

3 hours ago, roughing it said:

He's talkin' the Walken

I don't think he sounds at all like Christopher Walken. Much more like The Swede in Hell on Wheels.

[tennisgurl]

I certainly did not expect that "500 years ago" flashback, but I guess nothing on this show should surprise me ever since that spaceship. So he isn't just a hitman but also a 500 year old Sin Eater? Roy really made a mistake trying to screw this guy over. Will this actually be important to the plot or will it just be one of those random supernatural things that this show adds for color? 

As much as Roy likes to swing his dick around as the king of the kingdom, it seems like this militia guy is the one really in charge, or at least is someone he doesn't want to mess with. This totally lines up, Roy seems like the kind of person who projects this big Alpha Male persona to hide some massive insecurities, although at least he has more confidence than Gator, who is so desperate to seem like a badass that he comes across like an angsty teen instead of an adult, complete with blasting angry music in his room while trying to psych himself up. So who is his mom? 

Dot is a clever lady and clearly knows her way around firearms, I really want to know all about her but I also want her to get to stay with her family, they really seem happy together. 

[cmfran]

For everyone who is confused and annoyed: it's only ep 3, and based on how the previous seasons went, it's not supposed to all make sense yet. 

[Crashcourse]

I plan on being confused and annoyed until the very end.  

No big deal.

[peeayebee]

On 11/28/2023 at 9:12 PM, LadyintheLoop said:

Munch is a sin eater.

Did anyone see that old TV movie The Incredible Journey of Doctor Meg Laurel (1979)? (Actually, I thought it was called The Sin Eater, but I just looked it up.) That's where I first learned about sin eaters. The one in this movie was played by James Woods. 

I could be wrong, but I just thought the sin eater was an ancestor of Ole Munch. I know the same actor played him, but maybe that was to make it clear to viewers that it was an ancestor. Ole Munch is continuing the tradition.

On the other hand, his name is an allusion to eating (munching), so maybe this is a supernatural thing. Maybe it will get cleared up, maybe not.

On 11/29/2023 at 8:15 AM, NoReally said:

"I live here now." Talk about creepy!

Close second: "Going out, Mama." And I took that to be just another creepy thing he says, not that the woman was his real mother.

On 11/29/2023 at 5:48 PM, Jodithgrace said:

But what I don’t understand is Munch moving in with some random old lady who doesn’t seem to care.  

She did care. She was about to call the police but looked afraid. When we first see her walking home, she was looking around nervously at all the treat-or-treaters. I don't think she was afraid of something specific; she's just a loner scared of other people.

 

On 11/29/2023 at 10:53 AM, Starchild said:

Is it possible that in Roy's little kingdom, they have polygamy? Could Dot have been his wife at the same time as the other lady? And they both got pregnant at the same time? And this is one of the reasons Dot decided she couldn't stay with this guy?

It looked like he had multiple wedding photos on his wall. Of course it's possible that all his previous wives died (or escaped), but I got the impression of polygamy.

 

On 11/30/2023 at 6:40 AM, Tatum said:

Speaking of Gator, is Roy trying to get him killed? A professional who got the upper hand against Gator twice (and both times the guy was outnumbered) barely escaped with his life from Dot, and Roy wants to send Gator and his low IQ friends to finish the job on Dot? It should be pretty clear at this point that Gator is extremely incompetent at anything, and he wants him to try and carry out a kidnapping across state lines of a prominent, well connected suburban mom? Yes, this should end well.

I think Roy is pushing Gator to "be a man." He did say in E1 or E2 that he believed in him, and he sounded sincere. He doesn't want Gator to be weak, so he puts him in dangerous situations to toughen him up and show himself that he is strong and capable.

On 11/30/2023 at 8:21 AM, DMK said:

The guy Roy was talking to in his living room who wanted to move a gun shipment was taking about “1776” and other various revolutionary posturing. Definitely seems like Roy is presiding over some militia compound.

I thought that was Roy's dad. I also got the feeling that Roy didn't really respect him or at least didn't appreciate his advice.

The masks the bad guys were wearing at the end were from 'The Nightmare Before Christmas,' from which a song played in an earlier ep. Of course there are also Halloween decorations based on characters from that movie.

I liked this ep. Things are moving along. 

I agree with others here that it's weird Witt didn't report Gator for stealing evidence. Witt didn't look intimidated by him, which I was happy to see. Maybe he had the feeling that Gator has friends in high places, so if Witt reported him, nothing would happen. That's why he's doing his own investigating.

I almost always watch shows with CC on. Oddly, when the song "16 Tons" started playing, CC said it was "All Shook Up." I wonder if that was the original song they planned on using.

[Gobi]

I first heard of sin eaters in an episode of Night Gallery, in which the protagonist has to eat the sins of a sin eater. There are quite a lot, as one would expect.

[DMK]

4 hours ago, peeayebee said:

I think Roy is pushing Gator to "be a man." He did say in E1 or E2 that he believed in him, and he sounded sincere. He doesn't want Gator to be weak, so he puts him in dangerous situations to toughen him up and show himself that he is strong and capable.

I think it’s more that Roy is the sheriff, his dad was the sheriff and Roy is grooming Gator to eventually be the sheriff. 

[cmfran]

Definitely some interesting needle drops in this season so far. The Prodigy playing over the sequence towards the end was unexpected, for sure.

[Tatum]

On 12/2/2023 at 5:14 PM, peeayebee said:

I think Roy is pushing Gator to "be a man." He did say in E1 or E2 that he believed in him, and he sounded sincere. He doesn't want Gator to be weak, so he puts him in dangerous situations to toughen him up and show himself that he is strong and capable.

On 12/2/2023 at 9:22 PM, DMK said:

I think it’s more that Roy is the sheriff, his dad was the sheriff and Roy is grooming Gator to eventually be the sheriff. 

I think both those things are true- Roy wants Gator to get shit done and be like him (Roy) but he can want all he wants- it's abundantly clear Gator is not up to the task and will likely get himself killed or arrested trying to prove himself. Roy himself is flying pretty close to the sun on a lot of things, and he's the much smarter and more charismatic of the two which really doesn't speak well for Gator and his misplaced confidence.

 

I laughed when Gator said if it was just him and Munch, he knows he would wipe the floor with him. Based on what, Gator? You were armed, he wasn't, you had backup, he didn't, and he still won and the fact that you're still alive is based on Munch's discretion only.

 

On 12/2/2023 at 5:14 PM, peeayebee said:

I thought that was Roy's dad. I also got the feeling that Roy didn't really respect him or at least didn't appreciate his advice.

It was. When he walked in, Roy's wife said, your dad is here. I couldn't tell if he was annoyed having to listen to his dad, or if he was just preoccupied at the moment thinking about Dot.

[possibilities]

Roy swaggers around his compound, but he never seems to leave it. On some level he knows he ain't shit. He would go after Dot himself if he thought he could prevail that way. But he knows that he can't. He says he's sending Gator to grow up and prove himself, but he also knows he's sending him as a sacrificial lamb. 

That's my reading of it anyway.

He did go to the diner to "counsel" the couple where the guy was abusing his wife, but we really haven't seen him doing the sheriff job in general. What sheriff stays home all the time and isn't out and about going to crime scenes or otherwise flexing in public? Does he have staff? Does he have an office, even? No? Just his nepo-appointed son? I don't care if it's a rural area. We here in the sticks have more active county presence than that.

[Tatum]

12 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Roy swaggers around his compound, but he never seems to leave it. On some level he knows he ain't shit. He would go after Dot himself if he thought he could prevail that way. But he knows that he can't. He says he's sending Gator to grow up and prove himself, but he also knows he's sending him as a sacrificial lamb. 

That's my reading of it anyway.

He did go to the diner to "counsel" the couple where the guy was abusing his wife, but we really haven't seen him doing the sheriff job in general. What sheriff stays home all the time and isn't out and about going to crime scenes or otherwise flexing in public? Does he have staff? Does he have an office, even? No? Just his nepo-appointed son? I don't care if it's a rural area. We here in the sticks have more active county presence than that.

See, that's where I think there's a large divergence between episodes 1 and 2, and this latest episode.

 

Roy mentioned during his chat with the Feds that the constituents love him, as does the governor, and he rattled off obscure laws to the Feds which seemed to be the long way of explaining he knows the letter of the law well enough to skirt around it at all times, while also obliquely threatening that people can break the rather random laws of ND without realizing it and then be surprised with the consequences (should anyone choose to enforce it, which no one has, but could). While they didn't show him doing anything sheriff like in the first episodes, given the whole thing took place over a day or two, I could overlook that.

 

Yet by the third episode, it seems all pretenses of him being official are off. He's just some random dude that seems to have inherited his father's  farmhouse and bodyguards (who really aren't all the quick on the uptake when you think about it). I suppose I should give the writers a few more episodes to see how it plays out, but so far, the character of Roy seems inconsistent and disjointed- like a composite of various other characters.

[possibilities]

I guess we'll have to wait and see if they develop his sheriffing more. Right now, to me it looks like he's all bluff. He talked a cocky game to the feds, but honestly, it was all talk. 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 11/29/2023 at 5:44 PM, iMonrey said:

This stuff with Munch and the flashback to Wales in the 1500s is a bit too much. I know this show has always tipped into a bit of the supernatural here and there but this seems way too weird. It's also completely unnecessary. 

I am just going to tell myself that this was Munch's ancestor to show how his family has always been forced to do really bad shit. Because the supernatural stuff in this show has always been kind of dumb. I mean the space ship was funny but the afterlife bowling alley was stupid. 

On 11/30/2023 at 8:40 AM, Tatum said:

I have a hard time believing Roy's influence is so much that state police are intimidated by Gator, or that Gator's admission that he beat a high school rival with a tire iron would be just shrugged off. Not to mention, the guy tampered with evidence and explicitly threatened another police officer.

My thinking is that the trooper suspects that Gator has something to do with the kidnapping and his partner getting shot. Better to build a case and let the idiot incriminate himself doing something big (and maybe get him on accessory to kidnapping and murder) rather than bust him for stealing evidence.

[EtheltoTillie]

 
way behind on these episodes  

1.  Bowling alley is an homage to Big Lebowski.

2.  Who is Gator’s mother, and what happened to her?  Hope we find out. 
3.  I hope we also find out how Dot/Nadine got involved with John Hamm. Maybe she was raised in a doomsday prepper cult. 
4. How in the world did Gator even find Munch to hire him?