S35.E08: A Planes, Trains and Automobiles Day

[ljenkins782]

5 hours ago, aradia22 said:

While I did like Morgan and Lena as racers, I'm not shocked they left this episode. I'm more shocked that Morgan was so nice to Anna Leigh and yet continued to bicker with and criticize Lena. Just no sympathy throughout the skiing and probably even more navigation drama than what we saw.

It seems like a lot of people think Morgan and Lena have a particularly horrible relationship based solely on their bickering, but I have to assume that those people are not women with sisters. Because this is 100% par for the course behavior. As adults, you rarely have the occasion to spend every waking moment with your sibling, but I guarantee that you'd default to your childhood relationship and for sisters, that tends to be endless bickering. 

It was actually my favorite part of watching them, they occupied the big and little sister roles so thoroughly, I laughed through all their scenes. And I'm also not surprised that Morgan was nicer to AL than to Lena, AL is probably someone's annoying little sister, but she's not Morgan's annoying little sister. 

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Other than that, great leg with the scenery we love and the mistakes we love to watch -- Miss Beauty Pageant dragging her poor Dad up all those steps especially -- along with "1199" (come on, watch the news, you are old enough to remember the break-up of Yugoslavia) etc.

Of all the many dumb moments in this episode (climbing 1100 stairs for lack of reading a sign, leaving a notebook behind, missing the flag markers to the express pass), the answer of 1199 really took the cake. Particularly coming from one of the older racers who was indeed alive and presumably somewhat cognizant of the wider world in the 1990s. Even 1919 would have made more sense than 1199 if you were gonna get it wrong using two 1s and two 9s.

[chitowngirl]

I’m going to give kudos to Todd for carrying both backpacks.

[illdoc]

4 hours ago, chaifan said:

Another team was going to take the elevator but gave up waiting for it.

Actually, they pushed the button for the elevator but then wondered if taking the elevator was considered "travelling by foot". They weren't sure, so "better safe than sorry" and took the stairs.

[Corgi-ears]

51 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

Of all the many dumb moments in this episode [...] the answer of 1199 really took the cake.

Lena wasn't even "sure if the 9s were 6s," because business school -- it was her who went to the best business school in the world, or am I misremembering? -- apparently doesn't teach you what the line under a number means 🌚

[Meowwww]

Rob and Corey are my favorite competitors ever.  What a great team, full of joy.  
I’m a horse person, been around hay my whole life.  Every person I’ve ever brought to the barn, when doing hay duty, has had a reaction. Sneezing, welts, etc. 

AL just needs to go.  She and her dad are wasting this experience by being bitter and angry.  What a waste.  Her dad was about to die on those steps and all she could snap was “ COME ON DAD, LET’S GO DAD”.   She’s really negative and I don’t respect people who don’t appreciate the beauty they see and experience.  

[Sarahsmile416]

1 minute ago, Meowwww said:

Rob and Corey are my favorite competitors ever.  What a great team, full of joy.  
I’m a horse person, been around hay my whole life.  Every person I’ve ever brought to the barn, when doing hay duty, has had a reaction. Sneezing, welts, etc. 

AL just needs to go.  She and her dad are wasting this experience by being bitter and angry.  What a waste.  Her dad was about to die on those steps and all she could snap was “ COME ON DAD, LET’S GO DAD”.   She’s really negative and I don’t respect people who don’t appreciate the beauty they see and experience.  

I’m no fan of Anna Leigh (at all), but in fairness to her she did mention several times in this leg how beautiful it was.

[shura]

1 hour ago, ljenkins782 said:

Of all the many dumb moments in this episode (climbing 1100 stairs for lack of reading a sign, leaving a notebook behind, missing the flag markers to the express pass), the answer of 1199 really took the cake. Particularly coming from one of the older racers who was indeed alive and presumably somewhat cognizant of the wider world in the 1990s. Even 1919 would have made more sense than 1199 if you were gonna get it wrong using two 1s and two 9s.

Nah, it’s not that bad.  Just to play devil’s advocate, it is possible for a country to lose and gain independence several times, so theoretically the question might even have had more than one answer.  If you know nothing about the country and are not sure that they broke away from Yugoslavia exactly in 1991 and not a couple years later, for example, who is to say they did not become independent in 1199 - for the first time? (Serbia became an independent kingdom right around that time in 1217, Wikipedia tells me)  Or, like you said, in the post-WWI shakeup in 1919?  It didn’t look like he was overthinking it like that and was probably just blanking out, but 1199 is not an impossible answer, really, just an incorrect one.

[vousviou]

3 hours ago, Silver-hyren said:

It was one of the beard guys that guessed 1199.  So yeah, he would have been old enough to know first-hand.

Can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't learn about the fall of the Soviet Union in school.  Not for lack of trying, though.  We got to about day one of the unit on the Cold War in my Western Civ class then everything shut down for two weeks of mandatory state testing (where ironically I was asked questions about outcomes of the Cold War.  Good thing it didn't count for me).  I only knew 1991 was the answer because I had a co-worker a few years back tell us about her trip there.

I'd say he was overthinking it, but in his defense the history of the former Yugoslav republics is wildly complicated. For example, nearby Montenegro has had multiple periods of independence and being a subject going back to the Middle Ages. I could see someone thinking back too far in history to some early time predating the invasions of the Middle Ages instead of just recent history. But like I say, that would be a case of overthinking a plainly stated question.

[chicagofan]

9 hours ago, AEJ79 said:

For some reason this didn't record last night & the episode is not showing up on my Spectrum On Demand. Is there any other way I can watch this ep? Thanks!

You can go to the CBS website to watch recent episodes of CBS shows. In my experience shows are usually up for a couple of weeks. You will probably need to download the CBS app - you do not have to subscribe to Paramount+. Just know that there will be commercials.

Edited November 17, 2023 by chicagofan
Because something weird happened when I tried to post this

[springbarb]

Very annoyed at the episode getting my hopes up about Steve and Anna Leigh leaving. (I don't like Lena and Morgan, either, but apparently wanted them to make it through.)

Honestly, Steve is coming off worse to me. At the end of the previous leg, Anna Leigh acknowledged that she wasn't handling things well and shouldn't have lashed out, but Steve had absolutely no contrition and I found his behavior just as bad as hers. And in this leg, as soon as she started to melt down about being in last, he just yelled at her. He's awful.

Slovenia is gorgeous and I 100% want to do that zip line, but could absolutely not do those stairs.

[driver18]

I clearly watched a different episode than everyone else. Of course, AL was talking about how she was in last place and upset about it. Pretty much every team does that when they are clearly, obviously in last place, behind everyone else and lost.

Other things that happened that I guess only I saw:

1. AL specifically told her dad she wasn't trying to fight with him to keep things on an even keel.

2. She didn't blame him so much or the other racers, but rather her and their overall poor performance.

3. When they got to the task, she specifically wanted her dad to do it so he could enjoy it. She knew she wouldn't because she was upset but she wanted him too. 

4. She wasn't "throwing a pity party" telling the sisters about being bummed they were likely gone, it was clearly an edited convo as they were the last two there. And considering how nicely they were getting along, obviously AL isn't hated.

5. When Lena (or Morgan) got the clue right, AL immediately congratulated her, clapped for her.

6. Yeah, she missed the TAKEN express pass. So did Steve. And Ashlie and Todd missed the Express pass markers. And those two weren't dealing with the emotional stress of being last and likely out. KF and desperation makes your brain not work and so the logic of another team already having it didn't sink in. To either AL or her partner.

7. When she learned it was taken, instead of throwing a fit, she said 'well, might as well enjoy this beautiful experience and view' and was happy for her dad to do so and enjoyed doing so herself.

8. She nor Steve ever gave up. Even as she was telling the mustachioed friends this was the last time she'd see them, she was painting her bee house and plugging away.

So, yeah, I don't know what ya'll watched but that's what I saw. I'm glad AL/Steve are still in the race. Them and Rob/Corey are my two favorite teams.

[Fake Jan Brady]

3 hours ago, Corgi-ears said:

Lena wasn't even "sure if the 9s were 6s," because business school -- it was her who went to the best business school in the world, or am I misremembering? -- apparently doesn't teach you what the line under a number means 🌚

Morgan went to business school; Lena didn't know her left from her right [or her sixes from her nines].

[Lakebum]

Whiny ol' AL is going to pull a Flo on us, isn't she? I might as well start preparing for the disappointment now...

But until then, at least there are three teams left to root for, and a couple more I can almost tolerate.

[aradia22]

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When you get an edit like that (personal and usually sentimental stuff) early in an episode about a team it means 9 times out of 10 that team is going to be eliminated that leg. 

TAR (and Survivor) have had the same, crummy, ham-fisted, give-away edits like this for years and it annoys the crap out of me.  I hate that they almost always spoil me.

Again, I'm not asking for more backstory. But I would prefer the American Idol approach where you know the basics upfront and learn a little more over time. This is not information that should be introduced in episode 8. I'd compare it to Robbin who got to talk about her personal tragedy in episode 1... but then barely had it mentioned (maybe once or twice) since then while the editors decided to give her something of a villain edit. And Liam and Yeremi who kept getting to talk about their relationship as brothers because they'd cry on camera. Like, I truly don't understand what the editors are doing sometimes. The point of the backstories is to manipulate audience sympathies. It'd be like The Bachelor knowing one of the contestants has a dead relative/partner and only bringing it up mid-season after a villain edit and expecting the audience to care. That's not how it works. Also, if it was information we knew the whole time, it wouldn't be such a giveaway they were going home when they talked about it again.

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I just don't see Todd in such a negative light. Both of them missed the marked path to the stairs, and I didn't see him blame her at any point. Maybe I missed something, but when they finally found the stairs, he simply asked whether or not she could do it. She waffled instead of just answering. I can see how that's annoying but he never lost patience with her, he just asked for an answer. Now if that had been Morgan and Lena . . .

He was also trying to help her on the ski slope and she just kept whimpering and complaining. I know he isn't exactly touchy-feely or lovey-dovey in these moments but neither is he unkind nor does he raise his voice. His is simply very direct in trying to help her and tell her how to do it. 

I think the fact that Ashlie starts to whine is what makes people think Todd is somehow responsible but I think it's unfair to blame her behavior on him. He's clearly used to it and he just doesn't coddle her. 

I know you do rewatches so I'd pay particular attention to what Todd was saying when they finally found the stairs. I think it was around the time they quit to let Rob and Corey take it. He was definitely pushing all the blame on her. Also, there's a difference between not coddling and always giving "shake it off" kind of advice. It's like when she thought she broke her finger during the mattresses and he said he's broken his finger many times and she was fine. He wasn't slowing down for her or helping her until later. It is unkind not to offer someone any sympathy when they're struggling and he has a habit of letting her drag herself along being him when they could easily race together. 

Of course, having Rob & Corey and Greg & John on the race does put the others in a bad light. I hope one of them wins. They're two of the more likable teams we've had in a long time. 

[Haleth]

Wow!  That was a fun episode.  My gosh, Slovenia is beautiful.  I hope TAR helps put it on the map as a tourist destination.  Looks like a great place to visit for winter sports?

Train roulette - Good idea to find the faster route if it had worked out.  They all were lucky to have gotten back to Vienna in time to catch the original train.

Fast forward - Whew.  I'm glad Rob made it up the hill and the younger fitter teams didn't pass them.  Poor Steve!  What the heck was AL thinking?  Why would she reason that the EP would still be available?  Incidentally, there is a ski jump in IL near where my kids live.  That thing is dang high in the air.  I can't believe anyone skis down it and flings themselves into the air.  Zip line looks fun though.

Cross country skiing - definitely needed Benny Hill music.

Hay baling - I was sneezing along with John (?) and Corey.  

Elimination - By this point I was glad to be rid of either trailing team.  So Lena and Morgan found out they can work together and not bicker?  Um, when was that?  AL is annoying when she's stressed out.  I could almost bear her constantly scolding her dad until she told him to move his ass.  That crossed the line.

 

[PurpleTentacle]

9 hours ago, driver18 said:

1. AL specifically told her dad she wasn't trying to fight with him to keep things on an even keel.

Well you can say that as much as you want if you then keep yelling at the other person, it doesn't mean much.

9 hours ago, driver18 said:

6. Yeah, she missed the TAKEN express pass. So did Steve. And Ashlie and Todd missed the Express pass markers. And those two weren't dealing with the emotional stress of being last and likely out. KF and desperation makes your brain not work and so the logic of another team already having it didn't sink in. To either AL or her partner.

She did not only miss the marker, she also missed critical thinking. The pass was obviously taken by that point. There were a bunch of very athletic teams in front of them. So you'd think they'd either abandon that idea right away or at least look very carefully if the pass was already taken, before climbing all those stairs.

And no, not being able to pull yourself together for 5 seconds, when you are behind is not some kind of virtue. That is a major flaw in a racer. They really should have been eliminated for this. They were just increadibly lucky.

I put the critical thinking just as much on Steve, but not the looking for the sign. AL stormed ahead, so you'd think she looked for it. That sign was already up quite a bit of hill, which would have had Steve winded, trying to keep up with her. At that point you can't see straight anymore. So that's on her, who was leading the way.

9 hours ago, driver18 said:

7. When she learned it was taken, instead of throwing a fit, she said 'well, might as well enjoy this beautiful experience and view' and was happy for her dad to do so and enjoyed doing so herself.

Yeah and before that she constantly yelled at her dad, who was half dying on staris, to hurry up, while sprinting ahead. Contrast that with how Corey stayed behind his dad and gave him gentle encouragement, asking him if he was okay, etc.

4 hours ago, Lakebum said:

Whiny ol' AL is going to pull a Flo on us, isn't she? I might as well start preparing for the disappointment now...

While I don't like her attitude under preassure, she is obviously the exact opposite of a Flo. She'll never stop.

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

8 hours ago, Fake Jan Brady said:

Morgan went to business school; Lena didn't know her left from her right [or her sixes from her nines].

I'm not surprised that the kind of spatial disorientation that makes Lena unable to read a map or discern left from right would also make it hard for her to distinguish between a six and a nine, underlined or not, floating in the water and viewed from the air.

[Netfoot]

I note that a mistake with the date of independence required a whole aeroplane ride before you could try again. Unlike paying the right amount of coins at the castle last week, where you could essentially guess again almost instantly.

There are only six possible dates you could make with the available numbers (1, 1, 9, 9) and three of them are millennia in our future, effectively reducing the possible guesses to three. This is why I think that when there is a challenge that has a possibility of guessing the answer in a relatively small number of tries, an additional deterrent should be imposed for a wrong guess. 

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

This might be my favorite episode yet. So much old-fashioned racing drama. Smart transportation maneuvering undone by train delay, but would have been undone by hours of operation anyway. Running off confidently in the wrong direction. Footrace up the stairs. A competitive team bailing a climb they could have won. Footraces everywhere, down to the final mat. I love when teams are in the same camera shot so we know the closeness isn’t just editing shenanigans. I was shocked to realize TAR had never been to Slovenia. I know they've been to Croatia and Romania, and the other Balkan countries have some really stunning scenery as well.

Beautiful scenery and brutal tasks, and it’s always fun to say “I’ve been there / lived there!” when watching this show. There were several points where I seriously thought about the medical screening and safety precautions production must take. I consider myself reasonably healthy, but even seasonal allergies can knock me on my butt. They would have had to carry me off the field in an ambulance had I attempted the hay task. Same with the stairs. My stubborn, competitive spirit would have ignored all warning signs that I was about to collapse from a heart attack. I seriously worried about Rob when I saw the preview for the second staircase task. The editors must have really loved this team, because they only showed Rob’s initial lack of enthusiasm at another climb and then arrival at the clue box, and none of the certain struggle on the way up.

I gave some side-eye to the people who didn’t get 1991 on the first try. I wondered whether they had to prove they saw the numbers before attempting to answer the question, because most people could have — should have — known the answer from the clue alone. This is not History with a capital H we learned in school. The fall of the Berlin Wall, dissolution of the Soviet Union, and the Balkan conflicts of the 1990s comprised an all-consuming series of current event we lived in real time and that entered even elementary school lesson planning (remember the Weekly Reader?) …. And then I realized that only really applied to anyone over the age of 40 or so, and probably even then primarily to military brats. And then I felt very old and wondered about the day when youngins would struggle to remember when September 11 happened because it was something they maybe learned in school and not part of their lived experience.

Anyway back to the race. Lena and Morgan’s departure was telegraphed when they gave a very glum-looking talking head, while Whine-aleigh had none of that. Sorry to see the sisters go. Their bickering was annoying but relatable to my sibling relationships. I do wonder if this team did something to piss off production, because even scenes that could have been edited as power moments throughout their race (e.g., polishing off a plate of bugs to win the express pass) were edited to show them in their worst light.

The top three teams to finish are my top three for the win. If either Rob, Corey, Greg, or John is single and into women of a certain age, call me! I live in the neighborhood of America’s premier Deaf university and only Deaf Starbucks, plus lots of local businesses have ASL-capable people on staff. Rob and Corey would be very comfortable in my home. :-)

[Browncoat]

If the race hadn't been so close, and if I'd been way in front, I might have missed the year on purpose, just so I could go up in the glider again.

[chaifan]

1 hour ago, Sheikh Yerbouti said:

because most people could have — should have — known the answer from the clue alone. This is not History with a capital H we learned in school. The fall of the Berlin Wall, dissolution of the Soviet Union, and the Balkan conflicts of the 1990s comprised an all-consuming series of current event we lived in real time and that entered even elementary school lesson planning (remember the Weekly Reader?)

I've been to a handful of former Soviet countries, but if you asked me to give the year when Communism fell in those countries, I could confidently tell you "early 90's", but would be guessing at the exact year.  Same with the Berlin Wall - I would bet money on "late 80's" being the right answer, but couldn't give you a  year with any confidence.  And I was in my early 20's, was in college & grad school, and pretty politically aware when all this happened.

I also agree with whoever above said that 1919 could have been a reasonable guess, if their minds went first to the end of WWI.  My brain was initially toggling between the two, but I just figured out of context they had to be talking about independence from the Soviets (1991).  I was actually surprised that only 2 teams got it wrong on the first guess. 

1 hour ago, Sheikh Yerbouti said:

And then I felt very old and wondered about the day when youngins would struggle to remember when September 11 happened

I wonder the same thing - if you asked today's teenagers what year 9/11 happened, how many would get it right? 

1 hour ago, Browncoat said:

If the race hadn't been so close, and if I'd been way in front, I might have missed the year on purpose, just so I could go up in the glider again.

Me, too!  If those early teams had made the Wein train connection and, assuming there would be some HOO delay, even had a few hours on the other teams, I bet a few would have thought about doing that. 

After hitting the Pit Stop, I would have also been saying to Phil, "hey, can we go back to the Nordic place and do that zip line?" 

[proserpina65]

19 hours ago, aghst said:

The glider task was awesome but annoying that they have to go back up when they already have the 4 letters.  Second time around, one of the sisters said she was getting nauseous.  Probably with the sun blasting through that dome it might get uncomfortable.

Well, the sister who did the task didn't even have the right numbers the first time, never mind putting them in the correct order.

It never fails to depress me when it turns out some/many of the Racers are too young to remember world events I know like the back of my hand.  Makes me feel ancient.  1991 for dog's sake!  That's like, yesterday, right? 😳

16 hours ago, Netfoot said:

I can't make my mind up as to which would have been harder / taken longer, beehive building or hay racking. All I know was that I felt for Rob when he was faced with that 10-story spiral staircase, and I tip my hat to him for stepping forth without any hesitation or particular sign of dismay.

The bee house task looked easier to me, since the parts fitted together without needing nails.  The hay rack task looked really physically grueling.  For someone good with building things, like, say, IKEA furniture, the bee house task could be busted out pretty quickly, imo.

 

[proserpina65]

7 hours ago, Lakebum said:

Whiny ol' AL is going to pull a Flo on us, isn't she? I might as well start preparing for the disappointment now...

Honestly, that's the only thing keeping me from hating AL, that she has yet to just give up even when she thought they were going to be eliminated, unlike Flo who pretty much had to be carried by Zach for the last couple of legs in TAR3.  But yeah, if she and her father win after this leg over teams who've been much steadier, I'll be very disappointed.

 

[PurpleTentacle]

11 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Same with the Berlin Wall - I would bet money on "late 80's" being the right answer, but couldn't give you a  year with any confidence.

That one is easy because it doesn't get much later in the 80s (9. November 1989). You could probably remember the exact date, because it's 9.11.

50 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

The bee house task looked easier to me, since the parts fitted together without needing nails.  The hay rack task looked really physically grueling.  For someone good with building things, like, say, IKEA furniture, the bee house task could be busted out pretty quickly, imo.

I think just putting it together might have been faster than the hay, but painting it correctly and waiting for the paint to dry clearly put it over the top time-wise.

[aghst]

I knew the Berlin Wall fell in 1989 and then the dissolution of various large Soviet Bloc nations occurred shortly thereafter.

However, I don't know if I would have guessed that Slovenia was part of the former Yugoslavia.  I knew Croatia, which is to the West and South of Slovenia was part of the former Yugoslavia.

So I might have gone for 1199, because it wouldn't surprise me if there are old villages that date back that far.  Maybe it was a part of different countries but I wouldn't have necessarily known that "Slovenia" didn't exist before Yugoslavia was broken up. Obviously there were distinct cultures and tribes occupying those lands for over a millennium.

 

[Tango64]

Watching the race for the Fast Forward, I was wondering what would happen if another team managed to catch up to Rob and Corey. Greg and John seemed like they at least had a shot at catching up. If they had, how would they pass Rob and Corey?

The stairway looked narrow, so much so that the racers were spreading both arms out to the railings to help themselves up. If Rob and Corey were in that position, would Greg and John just forcibly push them out of the way? Are they allowed to? Scoot underneath the arms, which would seem to require some real physical interaction? Or would Rob and Corey just maintain their climb with their arms out and the other team would have to be right behind them and therefore second to arrive?

My reasoning is that the "arms out" position is valid in that scenario, as you're using the railings to help pull yourself up. If they did it purely to block another team, I could see that being different.

[zapper]

I would imagine Rob and Corey would have graciously allowed the faster racers to go past. I would expect no less from them.

[vousviou]

1 hour ago, Tango64 said:

The stairway looked narrow, so much so that the racers were spreading both arms out to the railings to help themselves up. If Rob and Corey were in that position, would Greg and John just forcibly push them out of the way? Are they allowed to?

I've wondered about this - there have been other times when in theory one team or person could block another but it doesn't seem happen.

I sort of assume for safety there's a rule that says slower teams have to give an overtaking team or person a chance to pass to avoid scuffles or people being knocked down stairs or off bridges, but I'd be curious if anyone knows.

Come to think of it, I could see that happening in cars too, and I'd assume the producers would want to prevent teams from cutting off another team at high speed and other risky maneuvers, but I don't know if there are explicit rules.

Edited November 17, 2023 by vousviou

[illdoc]

1 minute ago, vousviou said:

there have been other times when in theory one team or person could block another but it doesn't seem happen

Season 1---Team Guido blocked other teams from getting to their gate (TG was on a later flight) and one member actually fell! They then claimed ("lied") to another team "oh we didn't do anything. we didn't know they were there. we were just trying to get to our flight" (the editing showed TG deliberately saying "here come other teams. let's block them"). Other than causing the other teams (and the viewers) to hate them, no punishment was given.

[RunningMarket]

I believe it was S15 where Mika was too scared to go down the waterslide, with Flight Time and Big Easy catching up. FT and BE said they were allowed to talk to her and ask if they could pass, but they were not allowed to just barge ahead as technically she was still "ahead" of them and next in line. Eventually she did let them go by.

[dgpolo]

18 minutes ago, RunningMarket said:

Eventually she did let them go by.

Actually there was a time limit, once FT and BE arrived Mika and her teammate had X number of minutes/seconds to go down and when they didn't the guys got to go. Otherwise all the teams would be bunched up there still.

I believe there is a big rule across nearly all reality type shows that you cannot physically restrain or (of course) hit someone. Someone was kicked off Top Chef in an early season for laying hands on someone else.

In this instance, it sort of looked like there was a kind of plateau with a break in the stairs, that's where I thought the brothers could've passed Rob and Corey, I think Corey even said something about that. Something about the brothers not seeing that break in the stairs?

I am hoping that AL and Steve had to pay for that zipline ride, it looked like it was open for business while they were up there and it wasn't part of the Express Pass anymore.

Also wanted to say that I think there are various penalties handed out between legs and we only hear about them if they affect the start times of teams. I think this is where penalties for speeding are assessed. Have to say that this show has been on for a long time and the rules have evolved over time so what once was true may not be so anymore.

 

[J-Man]

9 hours ago, chaifan said:

I also agree with whoever above said that 1919 could have been a reasonable guess, if their minds went first to the end of WWI.  My brain was initially toggling between the two, but I just figured out of context they had to be talking about independence from the Soviets (1991).  I was actually surprised that only 2 teams got it wrong on the first guess. 

Yugoslavia, while a communist country, was not part of the Soviet bloc, nor under the control of the Soviet Union. When Slovenia gained independence in 1991, it was from the former Yugoslavia (and its remnants.)

[PurpleTentacle]

3 hours ago, dgpolo said:

In this instance, it sort of looked like there was a kind of plateau with a break in the stairs, that's where I thought the brothers could've passed Rob and Corey, I think Corey even said something about that. Something about the brothers not seeing that break in the stairs?

Apparently you couldn't see the second set of stairs, above the plateau, from below. Had the brothers seen those, they would have know that they had enough time to pass.

[mertensia]

14 hours ago, Haleth said:

Wow!  That was a fun episode.  My gosh, Slovenia is beautiful.  I hope TAR helps put it on the map as a tourist destination.  Looks like a great place to visit for winter sports?

 

 

 

The Slovenian tourism bureau must be ecstatic that everyone's reaction is "gosh, Slovenia is beautiful" with many of them saying "I want to visit".

[JH Lipton]

Interesting that after last week's chat about electric vs internal combustion cars, this week they seemed to be driving with a manual transmission -- I thought I heard Lena grind the gears for a bit.

 

Phil  told us at the start of the show that Slovenia had been0 independent for 32 years.  So any viewer that got it wrong gets behind Lena and Garrett!

On 11/16/2023 at 12:14 PM, Tango64 said:

Going downstairs for that distance isn't all easy, especially when your legs are jelly already.

Going down a slope is usually harder since you have to "brake" as you go,

On 11/16/2023 at 5:21 PM, Corgi-ears said:

Lena wasn't even "sure if the 9s were 6s," because business school -- it was her who went to the best business school in the world, or am I misremembering? -- apparently doesn't teach you what the line under a number means 🌚

Several Runners said that the binoculars were a bit fuzzy *they didn't have the crystal clear view that we did) and If Lena was nauseous, that would have made it harder to tell 7 from 1 or to see the lines on the 9s,

This week's chart:

 

[Skooma]

19 hours ago, chaifan said:

I've been to a handful of former Soviet countries, but if you asked me to give the year when Communism fell in those countries, I could confidently tell you "early 90's", but would be guessing at the exact year.  Same with the Berlin Wall - I would bet money on "late 80's" being the right answer, but couldn't give you a  year with any confidence.  And I was in my early 20's, was in college & grad school, and pretty politically aware when all this happened.

I also agree with whoever above said that 1919 could have been a reasonable guess, if their minds went first to the end of WWI.  My brain was initially toggling between the two, but I just figured out of context they had to be talking about independence from the Soviets (1991).  I was actually surprised that only 2 teams got it wrong on the first guess.

They gained independence from Yugoslavia, not the old Soviet Union.  Yugoslavia was always quasi-independent of the USSR's "Iron Curtain" domain  too unlike the other eastern European counties because of strongman Tito.  They were allied and nominally "communist" (whatever that means once they twisted the word out of it's original meaning) but the Soviets didn't dominate Yugoslavia like the other countries.  They needed Tito.

The Racers should know these basic facts.  Pay attention in world history class if not alive at the time.  American education sucks so much regarding history and civics and kids are taught from the beginning via pop culture (TV/movies/songs) to never be a "nerd" and that learning is not "cool" nor is watching the news.  Gag me!

But even so it was easy for the Racers to know something about Slovenia.  Past Racers would read all they could about a country before entering it by buying tourist guides.  Hell I even saw a "Yugoslavia" signage painted on something this leg.  No more "guides" around?  You could probably even read free tourist brochures on the train etc.  You could certainly talk to people about the country in general on the train.

And you didn't need to guess the year of independence either.  You got 4 numbers 1,1,9, 9.  So it had to be 1991.  No other combination worked remotely one you realized Slovenia had been part of Yugoslavia.  It was the only possible answer.  So I was totally surprised 2 teams got it wrong at first.  (I do grant that one of them didn't know the difference between 6 and 9 nor 1 and 7 apparently).

Sorry for the rant but I hate how people ignore history in the US or just focus on US history only and think the rest of the world does not matter.  But be warned.  Those that do not know history are doomed to ... get Philiminated.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Skooma

[Haleth]

9 hours ago, mertensia said:

The Slovenian tourism bureau must be ecstatic that everyone's reaction is "gosh, Slovenia is beautiful" with many of them saying "I want to visit".

I had to look at a map to see specifically where Slovenia is.  It's unfortunate there isn't much coastal territory so they didn't get many of the stunning beaches that Croatia and Montenegro got but they advertise lots of outdoor adventures.

Spoiler

The caves shown in the preview make it appear the teams are not yet done with Slovenia.

 

[PurpleTentacle]

9 hours ago, JH Lipton said:

Going down a slope is usually harder since you have to "brake" as you go,

It's harder on your knees, it's not harder on the rest of your body. You don't have to spend a bunch of energy to overcome gravity. So as long as your knees are fine, it's much, much easier to go down the stairs than up.

4 hours ago, Skooma said:

The Racers should know these basic facts.  Pay attention in world history class if not alive at the time.  American education sucks so much regarding history and civics and kids are taught from the beginning via pop culture (TV/movies/songs) to never be a "nerd" and that learning is not "cool" nor is watching the news.  Gag me!

Being a nerd has been cool for way over a decade now.

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

12 hours ago, mertensia said:

The Slovenian tourism bureau must be ecstatic that everyone's reaction is "gosh, Slovenia is beautiful" with many of them saying "I want to visit".

It would be wild if this episode piqued more interest in Slovenia than having a Slovenian First Lady of the United States.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Sheikh Yerbouti
grammar

[iMonrey]

Some things I noticed on rewatch:

They only showed the start times of the first two teams. It didn't really matter since everyone wound up bunched at the train station but I wonder why they bothered with the first two.

At the start of the leg, Phil said "Throughout the race, teams will win one key cash from Expedia which they can use for unique, expert designed adventures." Then when Greg and John came in first they won said "key cash." I'm not sure what this means though, and it's strange they are starting now in the 8th leg since Phil said "throughout the race." The whole thing wasn't explained very well. The Glider Roadblock was also described as an Expedia Adventure.

Speaking of the gliders, I didn't catch it the first time but they had to wear parachutes. John pointed out that made him a little nervous. It would me too. It's also strange the gliders don't have wheels to land on. I think it would have been a lot easier if they had been asked what year Slovenia gained its independence from Yugoslavia. I know the Yugoslavian breakup was relatively recent, but without that info I might have guessed 1919 because I know eastern Europe really shifted around after WWI and WWII.

Todd has a tattoo on the inside of his left arm that says "Holy Bible." I'm grateful we haven't heard any God-bothering from him.

Steve and Anna Leigh call Joel and Garrett "The Mustachios." Maybe it's a term of endearment but I'm not especially inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. 

Lena: "I haven't drove in a month!" Uh, didn't she just drive in the last leg? Did she mean before that, or did she mean stick shift? I couldn't tell for sure but it looked like an automatic.

Quote

I know you do rewatches so I'd pay particular attention to what Todd was saying when they finally found the stairs. I think it was around the time they quit to let Rob and Corey take it. He was definitely pushing all the blame on her. 

No he wasn't. She was complaining how hard it was, and he asked if she wanted to turn around and she said yeah. Then he said "Don't get mad." And she said "I am mad! Because we missed it!" And he said "I missed it?" And she said "We missed it! I said we!" Then Todd said "You're just mad at yourself. Because you missed it." He didn't say it was all her fault, he was just saying she was mad at herself because she missed the marked path. 

When they got to the bottom he said to her "You need to watch the attitude please." And he said that as nicely as it's possible to say that to someone. It seems to me that she's the real pill in that relationship. During the ski walk he was calm and encouraging and instructive and she just kept shooting him dirty looks. He never once raised his voice, lost his temper or said anything dismissive or disrespectful. 

Interestingly, when they got to the hay task, Robbin speculated they would switch Detours because she didn't think Ashlie was up to it. Seems like others have clocked Ashlie as kind of weak.

I don't know why some people are determined to see Todd in a negative light, but then I don't understand why some people think Dan on The Great British Baking Show is a smug asshole either. I guess sometimes you just have a really negative visceral reaction to someone. Sort of the "Bitch eating crackers" syndrome.

[aghst]

The racers didn't know they gained independence 32 years ago did they?

Or that Slovenia used to be part of the former Yugoslavia?

It shares a big border with Italy and Austria so people may not necessarily know that it was once part of the Soviet Bloc.

Certainly there are medieval buildings there.

So 1199 or even 1919 are possibilities.  But the arrow apparently hinted at the order of the letters.

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

When they got to the bottom he said to her "You need to watch the attitude please." And he said that as nicely as it's possible to say that to someone. It seems to me that she's the real pill in that relationship.

(On the ascent)
Todd: Want to just turn around?
Ashlie: Yah!
Todd: Argh! Let's go.
Ashlie: You're the one that missed the freaking thing...
Todd: What's that?
Ashlie: We missed it like...
Todd: I missed it?
Ashlie: We! You and me!

(Almost back at the bottom)
Ashlie: We would have been done.
Todd: Don't get mad.
Ashlie: I am mad!
Todd: You're mad at yourself.
Ashlie: Why?
Todd: Because you missed it.

(Right back at the bottom)
Ashlie: Where do we go now?
Todd: You watch that attitude, please.

[Cotypubby]

Todd is seen as negative because he treats Ashlie like crap. From blaming her for missing the sign to his terrible attitude on the ski task. He really comes across as a dick.

A team would have had to be able to pass another going up the stairs, either by pushing past or from the leading team having to let them pass, otherwise the first team there could have just put their arms out to the side and leisurely walked up in no rush.

[aradia22]

Quote

No he wasn't. She was complaining how hard it was, and he asked if she wanted to turn around and she said yeah. Then he said "Don't get mad." And she said "I am mad! Because we missed it!" And he said "I missed it?" And she said "We missed it! I said we!" Then Todd said "You're just mad at yourself. Because you missed it." He didn't say it was all her fault, he was just saying she was mad at herself because she missed the marked path. 

I guess we interpret that completely differently because to me it's very clear he's diminishing his responsibility and shifting blame to her. She wasn't mad at herself. She was mad they had wasted time. But he wanted her to only be mad at herself. 

Quote

Ashlie: We would have been done.
Todd: Don't get mad.
Ashlie: I am mad!
Todd: You're mad at yourself.
Ashlie: Why?
Todd: Because you missed it.

(Right back at the bottom)
Ashlie: Where do we go now?
Todd: You watch that attitude, please.

And then he didn't want her to have any (justified) feelings about it at all

[HurricaneVal]

Even if Steve had seen the "taken" sign for the Express Pass, I honestly doubt he could have convinced Anna Leigh it was legit.  She was focused and not listening.  Also?  Even if he knew another team must have taken it, since they were the last to arrive he knew he had a snowball's chance in hell of convincing her of that.  She was focused and not listening.  I believe I even saw a moment when Steve almost tried that gambit, but more or less shrugged and trailed after her.  This episode was the first time I heard him getting owly with her, mostly it has been her ragging on him.

At the glider task, Mr. HV looked at me and said "You know, if we were ahead and there weren't many teams in line when I landed, I'd be tempted to give a wrong answer just so I could go up and glide around that gorgeous area again!"  I laughed and told him I was kind of thinking the same thing "I wonder if he'd kill me if I deliberately flubbed the answer so I could do it again?"  Sometimes we play that game when we watch, who would do what challenge, and how well we think we'd do.  We would, of course, never go on the show.  Are you nuts?  We'd be Philiminated on the first leg!

[J-Man]

9 hours ago, aghst said:

It shares a big border with Italy and Austria so people may not necessarily know that it was once part of the Soviet Bloc.

As mentioned several times upthread, Yugoslavia was never part of the Soviet bloc.

[Netfoot]

23 minutes ago, J-Man said:

As mentioned several times upthread, Yugoslavia was never part of the Soviet bloc.

Correct. It was a communist (but not Soviet bloc) country since the end of the second world war. 

[Corgi-ears]

17 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

Todd is seen as negative because he treats Ashlie like crap. From blaming her for missing the sign

Maybe we should first be clear that Todd and Ashlie did not "miss" the "Express Pass Taken" sign. There WAS no such sign, because when they started running up the stairs, Rob and Corey were still climbing the stairs. So the pass was not yet taken, and there was thus no sign. What they missed was the Amazing Race marker that indicated that these were the stairs teams had to ascend. When Ashlie talked about "missing it," it's possible that she was talking about missing the marker and thus the stairs, or missing out on getting the pass.

But whatever it is, it seemed clear to me that Todd wasn't angry about whoever missing whatever. I'm not sure why we are parsing those exchanges. Instead, he was angry that Ashlie (a) was very wishy-washy about making a decision on whether to chase after Rob and Corey, and (b) made the wrong one. When they finally realized where the stairs were, Todd asked Ashlie if she was confident that she had the physical ability and energy to catch up to and overtake Rob and Corey, and she evaded answering him, and acted like he was wrong for even asking. When he first asked, she said, "OH MY GOD, Todd, yes or no!?" When he repeated the question, she said "I don't know!!!", whereupon Todd replied, "then that's a no," and turned around. But she persisted. So it looked like she was the one who got the team to chase after Rob and Corey, before giving up. So maybe we can see why Todd held her responsible for, and was even angry about her, setting them down a path they then eventually had to abandon.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Corgi-ears

[zapper]

nothing to see, certainly no "cancel" button.

[Cotypubby]

5 hours ago, Corgi-ears said:

Maybe we should first be clear that Todd and Ashlie did not "miss" the "Express Pass Taken" sign. There WAS no such sign, because when they started running up the stairs, Rob and Corey were still climbing the stairs.

Well duh. I don’t know who you think is confusing the two.