S03.E09: Thirty

[paigow]

8 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

I don't think you can assume that Donna put the rat poison on the cookie. 

Maybe the fancy bakery is infested with rats and wayward poison landed on the cookies... 

[peeayebee]

Wasn't there also rat poison in the theatre attic where Jerry was squatting? I don't know what his motive would have been, but Jerry is another suspect, I suppose.

I do wonder if the show expects us to accept the reenactments as absolutely true. I have a feeling we are supposed to accept them as such, but I would love it if we see that what the trio imagined is actually false.

[shapeshifter]

8 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Wasn't there also rat poison in the theatre attic where Jerry was squatting? I don't know what his motive would have been, but Jerry is another suspect, I suppose.

If Jerry had determined that he was Dickie’s bio-father…?

[chaifan]

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

Wasn't there also rat poison in the theatre attic where Jerry was squatting? I don't know what his motive would have been, but Jerry is another suspect, I suppose.

Ahhh... another trotting out of the overused trope of Chekhov's theater squatter...

😁

[DoctorAtomic]

I agree you can't assume on the reenactments that were behind closed doors, but they are reasonable inferences. The trio was making the timeline to that end. It's classic Sherlock Holmes. Otherwise, then everything and nothing is valid at the same time. 

[jabRI]

23 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

But “That's not how it works. That's not how any of this works.”

I saw the "Trixie" actress last week off-broadway, a fantastic performance:

https://atlantictheater.org/production/infinite-life/

 

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, chaifan said:

Ahhh... another trotting out of the overused trope of Chekhov's theater squatter...

😁

chekov's rats, more like. 

[CrazyTrain]

48 minutes ago, jabRI said:

I saw the "Trixie" actress last week off-broadway, a fantastic performance:

https://atlantictheater.org/production/infinite-life/

 

I am surprised nobody mentioned she was in Blacklist. That's where I recognized her from. She was a great character there too.

 

I was wondering how Ben didn't see or taste all of that rat poison. Definitely seemed to be an exaggerated vison.

[Eureka]

On 9/27/2023 at 1:16 PM, shapeshifter said:

-

But “That's not how it works. That's not how any of this works.” 😆

She was also the therapist in Ozark. That’s where I recognized her from.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Affogato said:

chekov's rats, more like

Chekhov’s rat poison. 😈

 

 

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Chekhov’s rat poison. 😈

 

 

I have a memory that rat poison is coloured a virulent green, so it won't be mistaken for, oh, sugar or flour. Yep, did a quick search and it still is green. It is also apparently now sold in chunks, like kibble, some fish flavored.

Not that powdery white rat poison is the least realistic thing I've encountered in a television show. 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Affogato

[Emily Thrace]

On 9/26/2023 at 3:27 AM, ofmd said:

A fun episode.

Hmmm... It's only the penultimate episode, so I doubt it was Donna. I'm still not totally discounting my 'Loretta gets exonerated but it was her after all' theory. Could be she finished Ben off after his miraculous recovery, to free dickie. But... Joy was mentioned numerous times. Hmmm...

Oh, and they gave Tobert a motive.

So glad the Mabel in wedding dress scene wasn't her wedding!

Oliver and Loretta were cute.

ETA: I admit I'm much more pro Tobert as a murderer, mainly because I don't like him and I do like Loretta.

How about this: Ben stumbled and fell, and Tobert just decided not to save him, much like the baby elephant?

Which reminds me, how can the police be sure it was murder, not an accident? Ofc this is the same police that set a violent kidnapper free just because he wasn't a killer, too.

I'm more resigned to it being Tobert. It does feel a bit repetitive for it to be one of their love interests. I do like the theory that he is actually an undercover agent investigating Ben's drug use.

I do wonder if it's going to turn out that Ben tripped over Howard's cat and fell or something like thay rather than being pushed.

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Emily Thrace

[Yeah No]

23 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Wasn't there also rat poison in the theatre attic where Jerry was squatting? I don't know what his motive would have been, but Jerry is another suspect, I suppose.

I do wonder if the show expects us to accept the reenactments as absolutely true. I have a feeling we are supposed to accept them as such, but I would love it if we see that what the trio imagined is actually false.

Yes, I think we're supposed to accept that our trio is as amazing as Sherlock Holmes, but at least if you asked him he had good, solid, logical reasons for coming to his conclusions.  Not sure about this group.  Again, it requires suspension of disbelief.

And it also crossed my mind that our theatre squatter was a suspect because of the rat poison.  I suppose everyone in the cast has had suspicion cast on them at this point.

I'm still leaning toward Tobert being involved to some degree, even if unwittingly.

[KerleyQ]

13 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

I'm more resigned to it being Tobert. It does feel a bit repetitive for it to be one of their love interests. I do like the theory that he is actually an undercover agent investigating Ben's drug use.

This got me thinking that, if Tobert is undercover, possibly Ben was working with him. Telling everyone Tobert was filming a documentary about him would have been a good reason to have him around. If he had a history of drug use, but was clean now, he would have been a good potential source for Tobert, because he knew some of the players. And maybe when Tobert called Mabel to go down to the club with him, he had actually been following the doctor, thanks to Ben's information. 

[Crs97]

5 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Yes, I think we're supposed to accept that our trio is as amazing as Sherlock Holmes, but at least if you asked him he had good, solid, logical reasons for coming to his conclusions.  Not sure about this group.

This group has been self-deprecating about their powers of deduction; I remember at least one time Mabel reminded people they publicly called Sting out as the murderer because he didn’t like dogs.

[shapeshifter]

Another alternate fact or poetic license line or just a case of a character being wrong was when Charles said Joy had moved on from her engagement to Charles and was now interested in Scott Bakula.
I just Googled, and Bakula is married: wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Bakula
Maybe a reminder that we shouldn’t take all the trio’s theories without a huge grain of salt?

[buckboard]

On 9/28/2023 at 5:58 AM, paigow said:

Maybe the fancy bakery is infested with rats and wayward poison landed on the cookies... 

Considering Schmackary's Cookies is a real bakery and are proudly promoting their appearance on OMITB, I doubt they would be promoting their appearance if their business is rat infested.

Perhaps you were only kidding, but some people might take your comment seriously.

[peeayebee]

I didn't know Schmackary's was real.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, buckboard said:

Considering Schmackary's Cookies is a real bakery and are proudly promoting their appearance on OMITB, I doubt they would be promoting their appearance if their business is rat infested.
Perhaps you were only kidding, but some people might take your comment seriously.

5 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I didn't know Schmackary's was real.

I had no idea Schmackary's was a real bakery either!
Heh, neither does the Safari browser on my iPhone:
     
Wow.
Showing someone putting rat poison on the cookie with a drawn out close-up is probably not the promotion Schmackary’s was imagining.

I recall seeing some similar weird product placement in a show in the last year.
I guess somebody from the shilled product has to sign off on the script, right?
Or not? And it’s an irresistible opportunity for someone like Steve Martin to stick it to the advertisers?🤷🏻‍♀️

[MisterGlass]

I just googled the Schmackary's website and they have a banner saying "Catch Us on Only Murders in the Building."  They also have a cookie on their menu called Cereal Killer, so it seems like they have a sense of humor.

ETA:  They are also selling a four pack of Death Rattle Dazzle cookies on their shipment site under the heading "Only Cookies in the Building."

Edited September 30, 2023 by MisterGlass

[Affogato]

9 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

I just googled the Schmackary's website and they have a banner saying "Catch Us on Only Murders in the Building."  They also have a cookie on their menu called Cereal Killer, so it seems like they have a sense of humor.

ETA:  They are also selling a four pack of Death Rattle Dazzle cookies on their shipment site under the heading "Only Cookies in the Building."

Very tempting. 

[sistermagpie]

13 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I guess somebody from the shilled product has to sign off on the script, right?

I don't think so. I remember Mad Men was often asked about their product placement and they said no, Budweiser wouldn't actually want to be associated with alcoholics. And while Jaguar embraced their use on that show, they definitely didn't get to approve it!

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I don't think so. I remember Mad Men was often asked about their product placement and they said no, Budweiser wouldn't actually want to be associated with alcoholics. And while Jaguar embraced their use on that show, they definitely didn't get to approve it!

I don't think they would mind this product placement. 

[sistermagpie]

4 minutes ago, Affogato said:

I don't think they would mind this product placement. 

Me neither. Cookies so good they could ruin your career and you'd like it isn't a criticism of the cookie!

[ML89]

Late to court but…in the re enactments, am I wrong that Donna says something like “tell Ben” to Ben? (I have Hulu with ads and I am not sitting through those commercials one more time…)

 

[Crs97]

3 minutes ago, ML89 said:

am I wrong that Donna says something like “tell Ben” to Ben?

Was that when she told Ben, “be nice to Ben”(which took me a hot minute to process)?

[shapeshifter]

15 hours ago, Crs97 said:

Was that when she told Ben, “be nice to Ben”(which took me a hot minute to process)?

I did a mental double take on that line too and assumed Donna was just employing a little pop-psychology lingo by using the third person to advise Ben about himself.

But now that you mention it, that seems like an oddly klunky line for such a tightly scripted show.
So, does anyone here know, regarding Donna’s line to Ben backstage on his way to his dressing room…

• [DONNA TO BEN] I'm going to be straight with you, Ben. It's opening night, and you look like shit.…
• [BEN RANTS ABOUT CHARLES AND LORETTA]
• [DONNA TO BEN] I don't know what's going on with you, darling, but this is not a good energy. Go to your dressing room. Be nice to Ben. Do whatever it takes to get your ass ready to go on that stage.

…Is telling someone to be nice to themselves using third person grammar a currently hip thing to do?

Or is something else going on?

Edited October 1, 2023 by shapeshifter

[TexasGal]

On 9/26/2023 at 6:28 AM, DrSpaceman73 said:

Am I the only one thinking Ben killed himself?  I thought that was obviously where all this was going. 

I thought that was where they were going too, with Ben’s horrible no good very bad day.

[ofmd]

I honestly think that would be too dark for this show.

[peeayebee]

I don't think it was particularly odd for Donna to tell Ben to "be nice to Ben." Seems like the way Donna speaks. I can't think what kind of clue that would be, if it is a clue. 

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

I don't think it was particularly odd for Donna to tell Ben to "be nice to Ben." Seems like the way Donna speaks. I can't think what kind of clue that would be, if it is a clue. 

I did a double take too, thinking of all those twin theories. But ultimately yeah, I thought she was just telling him to treat himself to the cookie she left for him.

[JenE4]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I did a mental double take on that line too and assumed Donna was just employing a little pop-psychology lingo by using the third person to advise Ben about himself.

But now that you mention it, that seems like an oddly klunky line for such a tightly scripted show.
So, does anyone here know, regarding Donna’s line to Ben backstage on his way to his dressing room…

• [DONNA TO BEN] I'm going to be straight with you, Ben. It's opening night, and you look like shit.…
• [BEN RANTS ABOUT CHARLES AND LORETTA]
• [DONNA TO BEN] I don't know what's going on with you, darling, but this is not a good energy. Go to your dressing room. Be nice to Ben. Do whatever it takes to get your ass ready to go on that stage.

…is telling someone to be nice to themselves using third person grammar a currently hip thing to do?

Or is something else going on?

I took it as her way of putting it in his head to eat that cookie. Do whatever you need to do to take care of yourself. You deserve a little treat. 

[SourK]

On 9/28/2023 at 5:05 PM, Affogato said:

I have a memory that rat poison is coloured a virulent green, so it won't be mistaken for, oh, sugar or flour. Yep, did a quick search and it still is green. It is also apparently now sold in chunks, like kibble, some fish flavored.

Not that powdery white rat poison is the least realistic thing I've encountered in a television show. 

It's a good question. I'm unsure of how realistic we're supposed to assume their depiction of rat poison is. IIRC, it also shreds your intestines in a pretty brutal way that should have been obvious at the hospital.

[secnarf]

8 minutes ago, SourK said:

It's a good question. I'm unsure of how realistic we're supposed to assume their depiction of rat poison is. IIRC, it also shreds your intestines in a pretty brutal way that should have been obvious at the hospital.

Traditionally, rat poison is warfarin or a related substance - an anticoagulant, that can cause you to bleed out.

I think there are many other different kinds of rat poison now.

[Affogato]

7 hours ago, secnarf said:

Traditionally, rat poison is warfarin or a related substance - an anticoagulant, that can cause you to bleed out.

I think there are many other different kinds of rat poison now.

Rodenticide, different kinds of anticoagulants, usually with additives. Occasionally so.eyhing else. Usually green, though, as a traditional warning. 

[Snapdragon]

On 9/30/2023 at 4:25 PM, shapeshifter said:

 

…Is telling someone to be nice to themselves using third person grammar a currently hip thing to do?

Or is something else going on?

Using the third person is very common when it comes to self-help or therapy these days.  I'm not sure why.  Maybe it makes it more personal?  Or it helps the person to look at themselves from an outside perspective? 

[paigow]

On 10/1/2023 at 5:26 AM, Affogato said:

Rodenticide, different kinds of anticoagulants, usually with additives. Occasionally so.eyhing else. Usually green, though, as a traditional warning. 

Got your back...

[Affogato]

2 minutes ago, paigow said:

Got your back...

Will make killer st Patrick's day cookies!

[cardigirl]

 

On 10/1/2023 at 5:26 AM, Affogato said:

Rodenticide, different kinds of anticoagulants, usually with additives. Occasionally so.eyhing else. Usually green, though, as a traditional warning. 

 

55 minutes ago, paigow said:

Got your back...

 

52 minutes ago, Affogato said:

Will make killer st Patrick's day cookies!

It's also a very cruel way to kill an animal. 

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, cardigirl said:

 

 

 

It's also a very cruel way to kill an animal. 

Extermination in general is not a kind business. 

[cardigirl]

34 minutes ago, Affogato said:

Extermination in general is not a kind business. 

No, but anticoagulants cause undue suffering. There are more humane ways. 

(Not part of the show, just hate poisoning anything.) 

[Athena]

On 9/30/2023 at 5:25 PM, shapeshifter said:

…Is telling someone to be nice to themselves using third person grammar a currently hip thing to do?

Or is something else going on?

 

19 hours ago, Snapdragon said:

Using the third person is very common when it comes to self-help or therapy these days.  I'm not sure why.  Maybe it makes it more personal?  Or it helps the person to look at themselves from an outside perspective? 

This is called third person self-talk in psychology. There is actual research which says it can help emotional regulation and self-control. It's an extension of similar other therapies like CBT where you look at your thoughts, feelings, and actions from another perspective.

[Mountainair]

I don’t mean to derail the whole momentum of this conversation but I’m having a hard time focusing on the episodes this season. I’ve still only made it part way through last weeks episode several times before switching to something else. I do love the triplet baby song that Steve Martin does. I also found it funny that in the opener Mabel doesn’t think (Short) should be released from the hospital after five days and a stent placement. Girl, these hospitals get you in and out. My son has had two stent surgeries for his heart this past year at a top children’s hospital. Fall risk wrist bands included and we stay one night and I have to request a damn wheelchair and wheel him out myself. He’s 11 but still…. Alright off to finish this episode before tomorrow. 

[HelloooKitty]

🎶Tonight, tonight..

we all find out tonight!

which pickwick triplet’s gonna get its due?

Tonight! Tonight!

I just can’t wait, tonight!

who shoved the cobro down the chute?!🎶

[aradia22]

One thing I can say for this season is that all the musical numbers and the lack of peril definitely increase the rewatch value. It's not just about catching the killer so there's more to revisit on a rewatch.

This felt like a bit of an underwhelming 30th birthday for Mabel. I do hope they figure out how to get her unstuck in season 4. 

Quote

Credit to everyone who called it that Ben was actually yelling at a cookie/some kind of junk food that entire time on tape.  I did like how Mabel figured that out by seeing Oliver basically doing the same thing, because that definitely seems like something Oliver would do.  Also, it looks like Ben was the one who wrote "Fucking Pig" on the mirror as well.  Looks like two of those mysteries have been put to bed for now.

Quote

But I think the cookie/pig thing also indicates that they might be making this show less convoluted than the prior seasons so the viewers could feel smart by solving the mystery. The other two seasons were absolutely impossible to decipher and really had deus ex machina like endings.

I appreciate that they've given us little mysteries that were "easy" to solve while still trying to direct us away from the killer. This is the first season I've felt like I was really following along successfully trying to solve the mystery.

Quote

Ben actually attending sewing classes with five older ladies (while Dickie and most everyone else assumed he was whoring around) was an unexpected reveal.  It seemed like they and sewing really were a calming force for him.  He clearly wasn't a great person in a lot of ways, but I do think we are seeing that Ben had some positive traits.  Paul Rudd was fantastic throughout this episode.

I also like that "some positive traits" didn't cancel out how much of a jerk he was. I didn't want another repeat of Bunny where she was actually a nice person, just not to our three leads. We know Ben has been awful. He didn't deserve to die for that but I didn't want a character retcon either.

Quote

Liked how they inserted the main trio into all of the flashbacks, even when it was obvious that they wouldn't know exactly what was happening.  Got a chuckle over them even bringing out the popcorn for Ben/Loretta/Charles' fight.

That was brilliant given the focus on theater this season and the fact that all of that action happened on stage (at least until the dressing room bit). 

Quote

And we finally got to see SG in the wedding gown that’s been teased since the summer.

So it seems like the wedding dress was just there to provide some drama for the trailer. She did look good in it but I'm not sure I buy that it would allow them to grab a taxi and then talk their way into a criminal court. 

Quote

I hadn't seen any of those spoilers, but when they replayed that scene last week, that was my immediate thought...he's talking to food. 

No, I certainly don't talk to food, why do you ask? :D

Maybe it was just obvious to those of us with disordered eating issues... and those who love dips 😅 Woo! Negative self talk! I do think the fact that the "person" wasn't responding was a significant signal that it was the cookies

Quote

I think Ben was a softie who covered up his insecurities by pretending to be the tough guy, by being rude and mean to people, by acting like an arrogant jerk

I think at this point, we have to take what he said at face value... Charles getting him fired as a kid really messed him up forever.

Quote

I do wonder if it's going to turn out that Ben tripped over Howard's cat and fell or something like thay rather than being pushed.

That would have been funny

Quote

Considering Schmackary's Cookies is a real bakery and are proudly promoting their appearance on OMITB, I doubt they would be promoting their appearance if their business is rat infested.

They were already well known in theater circles but this show has given them a TON of attention. I don't think it's paid promo. Maybe they're just friendly with people involved with the show.