S03.E09: Thirty

[jenrising]

Quote

The trio have amassed a plethora (oh yes, a plethora) of clues, suspects & theories but find no concrete answers about Ben’s murder. They devise a peculiar method of throwing themselves into the actual case to recreate the final moments of Ben’s life.

Available 9/26 on Hulu. 

[Quilt Fairy]

So now it can't have been Donna, either, right? 

[thuganomics85]

I can only imagine the fun Steve Martin and Martin Short were having when they were making baby noises on some kind of soundstage, knowing that their heads would be CGIed on babies for a wacky dream Mabel was having.  Ah, acting!

Credit to everyone who called it that Ben was actually yelling at a cookie/some kind of junk food that entire time on tape.  I did like how Mabel figured that out by seeing Oliver basically doing the same thing, because that definitely seems like something Oliver would do.  Also, it looks like Ben was the one who wrote "Fucking Pig" on the mirror as well.  Looks like two of those mysteries have been put to bed for now.

Ben actually attending sewing classes with five older ladies (while Dickie and most everyone else assumed he was whoring around) was an unexpected reveal.  It seemed like they and sewing really were a calming force for him.  He clearly wasn't a great person in a lot of ways, but I do think we are seeing that Ben had some positive traits.  Paul Rudd was fantastic throughout this episode.

Liked how they inserted the main trio into all of the flashbacks, even when it was obvious that they wouldn't know exactly what was happening.  Got a chuckle over them even bringing out the popcorn for Ben/Loretta/Charles' fight.

So, it looks like Donna DeMeo will be going into the finale as the prime suspect.  The pieces certainly add up, but we'll see if there will be a final swerve.  Honestly, I'm guessing right now that she will be behind the poisoning, but that someone else was behind the shove into the elevator shaft that finally finished Ben.  Just suspect the two killers idea holds water.  But I wonder if it will all connect or if there will end up be separate reasons for the killers to want him gone/dead?

Great seeing the main trio finally together and kicking ass with the sleuthing and solving.  I know it's acting and everything, but Martin, Short, and Selena Gomez really seem to just love it when they get to bounce off one another and dive into this material with each other.  I just love this trio.

Ah, got ourselves a Father of the Bride reference.  Lets see if we can get a Three Amigos next!

[the fresh maker]

The Old Lady Sewing Circle is probably my favorite reveal on this show so far.

I felt like the episode last week strongly hinted at Donna knowing about the review and poisoning Ben. She's an attempted murderer, but she didn't finish the job.

I think it will end up being Cliff. "It's someone in the cast" was an early misdirect, and the show literally told us to look at The Producers through Mel Brooks.

Norwegian red herring... Oh, show.

Edited September 26, 2023 by the fresh maker

[Quilt Fairy]

And we finally got to see SG in the wedding gown that’s been teased since the summer.

Also if things had lined up so that this episode had aired last week, Mabel and l would have the same birthday.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Quilt Fairy

[ofmd]

A fun episode.

Hmmm... It's only the penultimate episode, so I doubt it was Donna. I'm still not totally discounting my 'Loretta gets exonerated but it was her after all' theory. Could be she finished Ben off after his miraculous recovery, to free dickie. But... Joy was mentioned numerous times. Hmmm...

Oh, and they gave Tobert a motive.

So glad the Mabel in wedding dress scene wasn't her wedding!

Oliver and Loretta were cute.

ETA: I admit I'm much more pro Tobert as a murderer, mainly because I don't like him and I do like Loretta.

How about this: Ben stumbled and fell, and Tobert just decided not to save him, much like the baby elephant?

Which reminds me, how can the police be sure it was murder, not an accident? Ofc this is the same police that set a violent kidnapper free just because he wasn't a killer, too.

Edited September 26, 2023 by ofmd

[cardigirl]

Poor Ben! Wish his sewing circle had made it to the theater. 😢

Great episode!!!

[phalange]

High-fives to all of us who called that Ben was talking to cookies and wrote the "fucking pig" message about himself. And also Donna being the one who poisoned the cookie. I still think there's a second murderer who pushed Ben down the elevator shaft, though.

It's sweet that Mabel was happy to spend her thirtieth birthday looking for clues with Charles and Oliver and how they stuck a birthday candle in the dip. Mabel's MASH game is giving me middle school flashbacks. So many games of MASH. And poor Howard now has the compulsion to tape everything together and needs lasik lmao. I knew Howard would come through.

The father(s) of the bride reference made me laugh as did Oliver's "fuckity fuck" when they saw Donna in the courtroom.

My guess for who pushed Ben down the elevator shaft: Cliff. I don't know what his motive is, but it would be interesting if Donna went through all the trouble to poison Ben to protect Cliff, only for Cliff to kill Ben, too.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Credit to everyone who called it that Ben was actually yelling at a cookie/some kind of junk food that entire time on tape

Meh, since the first aroma of The Ben Was Talking To The Cookie 🍪Theory wafted through these threads, Reddit, X Formerly Known As Twitter, and elsewhere, I suspected a huge, genuine spoiler had been leaked — which kind of ruined this episode’s reveal for me — which is why I try valiantly to avoid them.🫣😨😤

IDK. Maybe it was supposed to be obvious to the viewers?

 

 

Selena in the wedding gown was perfection.
Her line asking why there has to be a groom was perfect writing too.

 

 

6 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Poor Ben! Wish his sewing circle had made it to the theater.

This episode rehabilitated Ben’s character at the 11th hour — I guess to make us want to see his killer caught.

I related to Ben’s obsessing over sewing the hankies for opening night instead of just showing up on time.

Edited September 26, 2023 by shapeshifter

[ofmd]

I have to say I still don't like him much, which doesn't mean he deserved to be killed. His character still feels cartoonish to me - compare him to, say, Bunny or even Tim Cuomo.

And you know, maybe his co-workers would have appreciated his gifts more if he had just said, "I sewed them myself!"

ETA: I thought about this ep while walking my dog. A remark of Loretta's made me wonder: "I'm too far down this road" or something like that. At first I didn't make much of it, but why would she say that when she knows Dickie is innocent? Does she mean, I'm too deep into this performance now? Or is it some lingering guilt?

And Dickie's alibi is a photo that doesn't show his face... Why did the trio take that at face value? And wouldn't the 5 seamstresses know whether he (or a different drunk) was there?

Edited September 26, 2023 by ofmd

[DrSpaceman73]

Am I the only one thinking Ben killed himself?  I thought that was obviously where all this was going. 

[ofmd]

17 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Am I the only one thinking Ben killed himself?  I thought that was obviously where all this was going. 

I personally didn't. I did think that the police shouldn't rule out accident or even suicide, and how strange it is that they're gung-ho about murder.

I guess I think he's not the type, no matter his sewing secrets and problems.

[cardigirl]

I thought the detective said they thought it was murder because he was poisoned in the theatre before he died. He apparently recovered from that, so not sure why the death by falling down an elevator shaft would have to be murder. Apparently they're thinking someone was out to get Ben.  

[ofmd]

Of course he could have done it to draw suspicion to Charles, who had punched him recently, just to get back at him.

I swear, if the ghost in the attic director wasn't gay*, I'd think he was Dickie's father and killed Ben, either for Dickie or because he had threatened Loretta. Ofc he described Loretta as "violent," which I thought was strange at the time, and didn't jive with the scene we were now shown, so... *shrugs*

* And sure, he could be bi, but he seemed so frail I find it hard to believe he shoved someone down an elevator.

Edited September 26, 2023 by ofmd

[sjankis630]

 

Donna was in the court room in the final scene. It must be an obvious misdirect. She was actually there to bail out Loretta or something to keep the show going...

Why did they not play the videos of all of the interrogations? I didn't see one for Kimber or Bobo. Are they officially out as suspects?

[paigow]

11 minutes ago, sjankis630 said:

Why did they not play the videos of all of the interrogations? I didn't see one for Kimber or Bobo. 

Oliver had not planted the camera yet...

[Jediknight]

"You're the 5 whores?"

LMAO.  Martin Short's delivery was perfect, to the shock of maybe one person.  Ben's sewing circle friends better be back for the season finale.

Here's hoping they find a way to get Paul Rudd and Meryl Streep back for next season.  They've both been perfect.  I know that Ben is dead, but you can have Rudd play a new character.

Of course Mabel's ideal birthday is hanging out with Charles and Oliver.  They're her besties, they've got to be there for each other's big moments.

8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Ah, got ourselves a Father of the Bride reference.  Lets see if we can get a Three Amigos next!

Sorry Chevy Chase you've been replaced by somebody who doesn't make it a monthly habit of burning bridges.  Selena is the true new 3rd Amigo.

[cardigirl]

Don't have time to re-watch right now, but things I'm wondering about:

Charles telling Ben, "I know what you did."  And mentioning that he did so while the trio was establishing the timeline. 

Loretta saying, "I'm in so deep now" after Charles tells her they've cleared Dickie. What the heck did that mean?

Picture of Dickie as CoBro, is it  really him?

What's going to happen next episode? 😱

[mledawn]

Loretta saying “Who do you think did it?” And not “Who did it” really stuck out to me for some reason. I am terrible at guessing whodunit though.

[braziliangirl]

Mabel loves her besties so very much awwww! She was happy to be with them. So many smiles from her.

So, who was calling Ben at the party? Who was that important to him that he immediately had to take the call? Was it mentioned?

I'm betting that Donna poisoned him but the killer is someone else. 

I don't want to be Loretta or Dickie because I love them. lol

[Phebemarie]

I liked the direction that made it seem like the trio were watching a play while the interviews were playing.  Very nice.  

Is there any way that we'll find out that Ben was Loretta's son after all?  The director had a Ben-esque look to him.  It would give Meryl Streep a big acting moment to take to next year's Emmys if Loretta learned she'd been supporting the wrong brother.  

I think I need to look back at the first episode to see if I missed something that might have been a misdirect all along.

[ofmd]

23 minutes ago, Phebemarie said:

Is there any way that we'll find out that Ben was Loretta's son after all?  The director had a Ben-esque look to him.  It would give Meryl Streep a big acting moment to take to next year's Emmys if Loretta learned she'd been supporting the wrong brother. 

And maybe even killed the wrong brother and her own son!

Someone posted about a discrepancy of Ben's birth date and the birth date given on a bus ticket... Other than that, idk.

[DrSpaceman73]

4 hours ago, ofmd said:

I personally didn't. I did think that the police shouldn't rule out accident or even suicide, and how strange it is that they're gung-ho about murder.

I guess I think he's not the type, no matter his sewing secrets and problems.

Middle aged single male in a high pressure industry with a history of drug abuse.....

Just on the surface seems to be a candidate

[mellyf]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Meh, since the first aroma of The Ben Was Talking To The Cookie 🍪Theory wafted through these threads, Reddit, X Formerly Known As Twitter, and elsewhere, I suspected a huge, genuine spoiler had been leaked — which kind of ruined this episode’s reveal for me — which is why I try valiantly to avoid them.🫣😨😤

IDK. Maybe it was supposed to be obvious to the viewers?

I hadn't seen any of those spoilers, but when they replayed that scene last week, that was my immediate thought...he's talking to food. 

No, I certainly don't talk to food, why do you ask? :D

[paigow]

28 minutes ago, ofmd said:

And maybe even killed the wrong brother and her own son!

Someone posted about a discrepancy of Ben's birth date and the birth date given on a bus ticket... Other than that, idk.

The bus ticket date should be related to Dickie  not Ben

[cardigirl]

35 minutes ago, ofmd said:

And maybe even killed the wrong brother and her own son!

Someone posted about a discrepancy of Ben's birth date and the birth date given on a bus ticket... Other than that, idk.

I floated that information.  :D 

[peeayebee]

7 hours ago, phalange said:

Mabel's MASH game is giving me middle school flashbacks. So many games of MASH.

I guess that MASH is after my time, whereas M*A*S*H* is of my time. I've never heard of that MASH game.

Quote

And poor Howard now has the compulsion to tape everything together and needs lasik lmao.

I love that actor. I cracked up when he walked into the wall.

 

7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Meh, since the first aroma of The Ben Was Talking To The Cookie 🍪Theory wafted through these threads, Reddit, X Formerly Known As Twitter, and elsewhere, I suspected a huge, genuine spoiler had been leaked — which kind of ruined this episode’s reveal for me — which is why I try valiantly to avoid them.🫣😨😤

IDK. Maybe it was supposed to be obvious to the viewers?

I was thinking about this, too. I don't know if the talking-to-cookie theory would have occurred to me without reading about it here. So I was a bit sad to not be wowed by this reveal.

 

5 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I thought the detective said they thought it was murder because he was poisoned in the theatre before he died. 

Since Dickie said he suppressed the blood test results, would the police have known Ben'd been poisoned? I suppose Dickie could have just kept it out of the press (somehow). I'm just a little fuzzy or just don't remember what was said re poison after Ben came back from the hospital.

 

1 hour ago, Phebemarie said:

I liked the direction that made it seem like the trio were watching a play while the interviews were playing.  Very nice.  

That was all a lot of fun. I particularly like the scene where they're watching Loretta and Ben at the lighthouse. After Loretta says her lines about protecting the children, Charles says, "Wow, this dialog really lines up." And then when Charles enters that scene, Charles says to Mabel and Oliver, "Hey look! There’s me!" :D

Quote

Is there any way that we'll find out that Ben was Loretta's son after all?

I don't see how. Loretta gave Dickie up for adoption. Ben was born afterwards to the adoptive parents. 

I wonder if there was any significance to Charles mentioning that Joy's parents are still alive.

I loved the scene with the "5 whores." I believe one of them, Trixie, was played by the actress who was in that esurance commercial. "That's not how it works. That's not how any of this works."

I really like seeing the nice Ben moments and that he realizes he can be a real dick to people.

At one point Dickie says to the trio, "If you think the killer is still out there, I should call my lawyer." Huh? 

Love the bit with Oliver saying carrying a ladder will get you in anywhere. There might be something to that! And then when they need to get to the courthouse in the bad traffic...
Oliver: And I’m all out of ladders.
Charles: And I can’t cry twice in one day.

I thought it was weird that we see Ben turn off the camera in his dressing room. He didn't seem surprised that it had been on. 

Oliver: O. M. God!

I wonder if we're supposed to accept the interview reenactments as completely accurate. There were many times when the trio were obviously imagining what had happened because they couldn't know, like Donna putting rat poison on the cookie. 

I agree with others here that Donna poisoned Ben but didn't push him down the elevator shaft. Maybe it was Trixie!

Edited September 26, 2023 by peeayebee

[Phebemarie]

As a fan of early Supernatural, I chuckled at Charles' offering up his solitary tear as an acting triumph.  Jensen Ackles (Dean) was heralded as the king of one tear acting.  

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Meh, since the first aroma of The Ben Was Talking To The Cookie 🍪Theory wafted through these threads, Reddit, X Formerly Known As Twitter, and elsewhere, I suspected a huge, genuine spoiler had been leaked — which kind of ruined this episode’s reveal for me — which is why I try valiantly to avoid them.🫣😨😤

IDK. Maybe it was supposed to be obvious to the viewers?

I was thinking about this, too. I don't know if the talking-to-cookie theory would have occurred to me without reading about it here. So I was a bit sad to not be wowed by this reveal.

Thank you, @peeayebee🙏
I feel better knowing I’m not the only one who was disappointed by the big cookie 🍪 reveal fizzling because of online chatter. But I still *really* want to know if it was leaked, and, if so, accidentally or maybe even on purpose?? 
Or was it just supposed to be obvious to a lot of viewers that Ben was talking to a cookie(s)? 🍪 
Heh. Sort of a meta-mystery to solve.

 

 

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

At one point Dickie says to the trio, "If you think the killer is still out there, I should call my lawyer." Huh? 

Just meaning he’d be back on the suspect list?

 

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

Since Dickie said he suppressed the blood test results, would the police have known Ben'd been poisoned? I suppose Dickie could have just kept it out of the press (somehow). I'm just a little fuzzy or just don't remember what was said re poison after Ben came back from the hospital.

Same. I’m going to rewatch and report back🫡

Edited September 26, 2023 by shapeshifter

[ofmd]

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

At one point Dickie says to the trio, "If you think the killer is still out there, I should call my lawyer." Huh?
 

Yeah, that struck me as odd. So much for his great friendship to Loretta - not even a second of "Phew, I'm glad it wasn't her".

Also, didn't he say that the audio of his drunken scene saved him? So why get nervous again?

PS: I didn't mind the cookie spoiler... but I thought that basically everyone except for me solved it, while I thought it was Loretta...

Ofc the reveal was a bit boring, as I was already convinced he was talking to cookies.

Edited September 26, 2023 by ofmd

[Affogato]

I thought it was pretty obvious he was talking to cookies. I thought it was possible they would avert it and he would be talking to someone else, but yeah, that's how you scold a plate of snickerdoodles.  We knew he had an issue with cookies, after all.

I don't think it needed to be leaked. 

[peeayebee]

9 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I feel better knowing I’m not the only one who was disappointed by the big cookie 🍪 reveal fizzling because of online chatter. But I still *really* want to know if it was leaked, and, if so, accidentally or maybe even on purpose?? 
Or was it just supposed to be obvious to a lot of viewers that Ben was talking to a cookie(s)? 🍪 

I don't think it was leaked or was supposed to be obvious. I'm sure the writers thought this was a clever ruse. I imagine that they might have worried that people would figure it out ahead of time.

Quote

Just meaning he’d be back on the suspect list?

Oh. I suppose that's what he meant, but it sounded weird to me. A more normal way for him to say this would be, "If Loretta is innocent, then I guess I'm a suspect again. I should call my lawyer."

 

1 minute ago, ofmd said:

Also, didn't he say that the audio of his drunken scene saved him?

I think he said there was no audio. I'm going to rewatch that bit.

[ofmd]

Oh, I may have misheard. Thought he said, the police didn't accept the photo because it doesn't show my whole face. I guess I should be glad there was audio.

ETA: If he said no audio, then I'm back to: Why does the trio now believe he's innocent?

Edited September 26, 2023 by ofmd

[peeayebee]

Just rewatched it: He said he was screaming for them (whoever was inside the fabric shop, or whorehouse, as Dickie believed) to bring him the five whores, so then he tells the trio, "I guess I should just be grateful there isn’t audio."

Actually, this whole scene left me suspicious of Dickie. He seemed kind of off here. Maybe this is just the writers trying to insert ambiguity.

[DrSpaceman73]

1 hour ago, Phebemarie said:

As a fan of early Supernatural, I chuckled at Charles' offering up his solitary tear as an acting triumph.  Jensen Ackles (Dean) was heralded as the king of one tear acting.  

But Charles can only do it once in a day

[Snapdragon]

A round of applause to all of us on the board who figured out that Ben was talking to a cookie and then wrote "f**ing pig" on the mirror due to cookie guilt (Was it obvious?  Yes, but I'm choosing to ignore that and pretend that we're all just murder mystery geniuses).  

I'm guessing that Donna did poison Ben's cookie (though I'm not sure if she was trying to kill him.  Maybe just make him sick enough that he'd have to drop out of the show?) but that Tobert will end up being the one who shoves Ben down the elevator shaft.  Ben probably decided he didn't want to do the documentary anymore after his near death experience, which infuriated Tobert since he finally had an interesting story to film.  

I laughed so hard at the exchange between Oliver and the "five whores" when he handed them the ladder.  That, followed by the reveal that one had actually been a hooker and Oliver's "WTF?" response had me dying.  

[peeayebee]

19 minutes ago, Snapdragon said:

I laughed so hard at the exchange between Oliver and the "five whores" when he handed them the ladder.   

I loved how pleased Trixie and the other one was when he gave them the ladder.

[ofmd]

I've pretty much ditched any nottion of "Someone just wanted to make Ben sick" (looking at you, Howard with the understudy bf!) when I learned it was rat poison. Assuming it really was rat poison ofc.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, peeayebee said:

loved the scene with the "5 whores." I believe one of them, Trixie, was played by the actress who was in that esurance commercial. "That's not how it works. That's not how any of this works."

Thanks for noticing and looking up the commercial and posting about this.🙏

There are many times when I think that commercial applies to peoples’ wrong assumptions. Knowing Trixie is the “That's not how any of this works” lady makes me love her casting here even more.

 

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

4 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Since Dickie said he suppressed the blood test results, would the police have known Ben'd been poisoned? I suppose Dickie could have just kept it out of the press (somehow). I'm just a little fuzzy or just don't remember what was said re poison after Ben came back from the hospital.

Same. I’m going to rewatch and report back🫡

Actually, Dickie doesn’t say he “suppressed” Ben’s blood work:

• [MABEL]… you told me you cover up things, so I kinda figured you covered up his blood work to hide the poison in his system.
• [DICKIE] I did do that. I mean, I didn't know he was poisoned when I did it. I just knew there was other stuff in there he wouldn't want getting out…

IDK.
It seems ambiguous to me as to whether Dickie physically altered Ben’s blood sample, or if he just kept it out of the press. 
And the reveal that Ben’s “five whores” were really his sewing buddies confuses me even more about what Dickie really knew about Ben.

Maybe someone else can parse the meaning of this?

Or is it just Emmy-level mystery writing that leaves me confused?

Speaking of Emmys — Meryl is going to cancel out Paul Rudd for Best Guest, but
I do hope Paul Rudd’s Emmy reel submission includes the variety of pig 🐷 noises he makes at himself in the mirror in this episode.

Edited September 26, 2023 by shapeshifter

[ofmd]

Well, if Dickie  changed the physical sample, surely that would be obstruction or evidence tampering or something like that? I thought he kept it out of the press.

 

[sistermagpie]

 

12 hours ago, ofmd said:

How about this: Ben stumbled and fell, and Tobert just decided not to save him, much like the baby elephant?

Yeah, it seems like there ought to be two murders. And the police probably assume it's murder because he was poisoned earlier. The hanky's probably important!

11 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Meh, since the first aroma of The Ben Was Talking To The Cookie 🍪Theory wafted through these threads, Reddit, X Formerly Known As Twitter, and elsewhere, I suspected a huge, genuine spoiler had been leaked — which kind of ruined this episode’s reveal for me — which is why I try valiantly to avoid them.🫣😨😤

IDK. Maybe it was supposed to be obvious to the viewers?

 

I think we just guessed it. I didn't see any spoilers, and thought it was a cookie the first time i saw it. I'm not particularly good at solving mysteries, it just read to me that way, as did him writing to himself on the mirror. They'd set up his cookie issues earlier.

 

6 hours ago, Jediknight said:

"You're the 5 whores?"

"It's okay. I used to be one." - my favorite line of the ep.

 

6 hours ago, mledawn said:

Loretta saying “Who do you think did it?” And not “Who did it” really stuck out to me for some reason. I am terrible at guessing whodunit though.

Yes, she did seem a little off in that moment. Maybe she thinks she pushed him or something?

5 hours ago, Phebemarie said:

Is there any way that we'll find out that Ben was Loretta's son after all?  The director had a Ben-esque look to him.  It would give Meryl Streep a big acting moment to take to next year's Emmys if Loretta learned she'd been supporting the wrong brother.  

I don't see how they could work without stretching believability until it broke, even on this show. Plus....

4 hours ago, ofmd said:

And maybe even killed the wrong brother and her own son!

That seems too dark for the show.

The bus ticket isn't necessarily the one Loretta took after she gave birth.

3 hours ago, peeayebee said:

I guess that MASH is after my time, whereas M*A*S*H* is of my time. I've never heard of that MASH game.

Definitely not before your time if M*A*S*H isn't. You must have just been in a place where they didn't do it, because it's a really old game.

 

[DrSpaceman73]

21 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Thanks for noticing and looking up the commercial and posting about this.🙏

There are many times when I think that commercial applies to peoples’ wrong assumptions. Knowing Trixie is the “That's not how any of this works” lady makes me love her casting here even more.

 

Actually, Dickie doesn’t say he “suppressed” Ben’s blood work:

• [MABEL]… you told me you cover up things, so I kinda figured you covered up his blood work to hide the poison in his system.
• [DICKIE] I did do that. I mean, I didn't know he was poisoned when I did it. I just knew there was other stuff in there he wouldn't want getting out…

IDK.
It seems ambiguous to me as to whether Dickie physically altered Ben’s blood sample, or if he just kept it out of the press. 
And the reveal that Ben’s “five whores” were really his sewing buddies confuses me even more about what Dickie really knew about Ben.

Maybe someone else can parse the meaning of this?

Or is it just Emmy-level mystery writing that leaves me confused?

Speaking of Emmys — Meryl is going to cancel out Paul Rudd for Best Guest, but I do hope his Emmy reel submission includes the variety of pig 🐷 noises he makes at himself in the mirror in this episode.

Him and the pig noises were great. 

Reminded me of a Christmas story when the mom gets the kid to act like a pig to eat his food

[cardigirl]

2 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Him and the pig noises were great. 

Reminded me of a Christmas story when the mom gets the kid to act like a pig to eat his food

Loretta made a bunch of similar pig noises during her dinner date with Oliver. 

[shapeshifter]

43 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Loretta made a bunch of similar pig noises during her dinner date with Oliver. 

But did Loretta do the squeals too? Or just the snorts and grunts?

Anyway, I realize now that both Meryl Streep and Paul Rudd could win Emmys because there is:

• Outstanding Guest Actress in a Comedy Series 

• Outstanding Guest Actor in a Comedy Series

[tennisgurl]

Awww Mabel just wants to spend her 30th birthday with her besties doing murder stuff! That game of MASH really took me back, my friends and I played that game all of the time in junior high, I think I even had Josh Hartnett and Nelly on quite a few of my lists. 

Everyone who guessed that Ben was talking to the cookies and wrote that message on his mirror to himself, take a bow. This episode did do a lot to make me care more about Ben, he was a jerk to people and in general not the best person, but he did clearly have more going on and seems like a lot of his behavior seemed to be part of him being massively insecure. 

The Snitches get Stitches sequence was just comedy gold throughout, from Charles attempting to cry his single manly tear, to Oliver's confidence that he totally knows what this place really is, to the reveal about who the five whores were, to their genuine excitement at getting a ladder, to the flashbacks to Ben, capped off by the one lady casually telling Oliver that she did, in fact, used to be a whore, I was just dying the whole time. 

Oh yeah, I see you with that Father of the Bride reference. I see you, show. 

Donna was one of my top suspects, but now that she's been put forward now I'm guessing that while she did poison Ben, she didn't actually push him to his death. I'm still thinking Tobert, like with the elephant, he saw him about to die and stood there and watched. 

[Snazzy Daisy]

Finally, an episode that I have been waiting for - the trio in their full detective mode, piecing together clues, alibis and timeline.

Their break-in tools: A ladder, a wedding dress and Charles’ (barely there) tears. 😂

Am expecting a twist in the finale re Loretta/Dickie relationship. It could be about the true nature of their relationship or the reveal of Loretta’s baby daddy.

Dickie’s alibi on the night when Ben was pushed isn’t really airtight but this could be just a distraction.

Two (2) questions that still haven’t been answered:

• Who called Ben at the party that night?
• The footages of Ben that Tobert recorded for the documentary - what happens to all of it?

Am glad my guess about Donna shredding the critic’s initial review is spot on.

We have been shown that Donna was the poisoner, just to sabotage Ben (the weak link) from getting on the stage. But Ben couldn’t have known this. He must have suspected Cliff as he offered him the Schmackary’s earlier.

After Oliver’s party, Ben could’ve confronted Cliff about the poisoned cookies in front of the elevator. It startled Cliff. He started doing his stress dance and accidentally kicked Ben into the elevator shaft.

Tobert could’ve seen the whole sequence of events but chose not to interfere or say anything, just like the baby elephant story.

3 culprits ✅

Humanizing Ben before the killer reveal is totally expected but not the sewing circle. It’s lovely to see how the “5 whores” adore him and have been supporting him unconditionally. The running lines scene is really heartwarming.

Trixie, Marigold, Emerald, Dot and Mei Mei miss their Benny. And all they have now is this… 😢

Edited September 26, 2023 by Snazzy Daisy

[JenE4]

1 hour ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Finally, an episode that I have been waiting for - the trio in their full detective mode, piecing together clues, alibis and timeline.

Their break-in tools: A ladder, a wedding dress and Charles’ (barely there) tears. 😂

Am expecting a twist in the finale re Loretta/Dickie relationship. It could be about the true nature of their relationship or the reveal of Loretta’s baby daddy.

Dickie’s alibi on the night when Ben was pushed isn’t really airtight but this could be just a distraction.

Two (2) questions that still haven’t been answered:

• Who called Ben at the party that night?
• The footages of Ben that Tobert recorded for the documentary - what happens to all of it?

Am glad my guess about Donna shredding the critic’s initial review is spot on.

We have been shown that Donna was the poisoner, just to sabotage Ben (the weak link) from getting on the stage. But Ben couldn’t have known this. He must have suspected Cliff as he offered him the Schmackary’s earlier.

After Oliver’s party, Ben could’ve confronted Cliff about the poisoned cookies in front of the elevator. It startled Cliff. He started doing his stress dance and accidentally kicked Ben into the elevator shaft.

Tobert could’ve seen the whole sequence of events but chose not to interfere or say anything, just like the baby elephant story.

3 culprits ✅

Humanizing Ben before the killer reveal is totally expected but not the sewing circle. It’s lovely to see how the “5 whores” adore him and have been supporting him unconditionally. The running lines scene is really heartwarming.

Trixie, Marigold, Emerald, Dot and Mei Mei miss their Benny. And all they have now is this… 😢

I have a similar thought. Ben was fasting, so he knows the poison was from the cookie because that was the only thing he has eaten in days. When Cliff delivered the cookies, he said it was a special delivery from Donna. I think Ben confronted Cliff and Donna at the elevator. Cliff realizing that his mother poisoned Ben to protect him then pushed Ben into the elevator shaft to protect her. If as Donna told Loretta last week that a mother would do anything to protect her child, then the Motherboy 2023 winners knocking Lucille and Buster Bluth off their pedestal*, son would do anything to protect his mommy dearest. Is this too simplistic for this show? Perhaps. But I think the cookie/pig thing also indicates that they might be making this show less convoluted than the prior seasons so the viewers could feel smart by solving the mystery. The other two seasons were absolutely impossible to decipher and really had deus ex machina like endings. If this follows suit, though, then expect it to be something unfathomable like Ben recreating a CoBro stunt to prove his self-worth or he was so incapable of resisting cookies that he ate another one while waiting for the elevator even though he knew they were poisoned.

*”Arrested Development” reference; not this show.

Cliff and Donna right before the elevator doors opened:

[Quilt Fairy]

6 hours ago, peeayebee said:

I thought it was weird that we see Ben turn off the camera in his dressing room. He didn't seem surprised that it had been on. 

I thought that Tobert told Mabel a different story of how that footage of Ben was made.  

[Ohiopirate02]

While I love the reveal that Ben's Five Whores are actually his sewing circle and that quilt is perfection, I wish the craft was crochet and it would have been Ben's Five Hookers.

[SourK]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I feel better knowing I’m not the only one who was disappointed by the big cookie 🍪 reveal fizzling because of online chatter. But I still *really* want to know if it was leaked, and, if so, accidentally or maybe even on purpose?? 
Or was it just supposed to be obvious to a lot of viewers that Ben was talking to a cookie(s)? 🍪

For some reason, when I saw the scene, I immediately thought cookies instead of people and it's hard to say why -- I think maybe because whoever he was talking to wasn't answering, and it just felt like a frozen cake commercial from the 90s or something where you think they're talking about romance but no -- it's the frozen cake.

5 hours ago, Snapdragon said:

I'm guessing that Donna did poison Ben's cookie (though I'm not sure if she was trying to kill him.  Maybe just make him sick enough that he'd have to drop out of the show?) but that Tobert will end up being the one who shoves Ben down the elevator shaft.  Ben probably decided he didn't want to do the documentary anymore after his near death experience, which infuriated Tobert since he finally had an interesting story to film.

I think this is the most likely outcome. It's possible Ben went to the white room and accidentally killed himself, but I feel like that would be too dark for this show.