S13.E07: Priceless Runway

[Milaxx]

I do.  I love Tim but, man, that weeping bit about using his "save" made me cringe.  Maybe it is because I don't think that designer is the bees knees but also because it just was - well, cringe-inducing.  And, I really do love him - he makes it for me - just not whatever the heck that bit was all about.

 

I love Tim as well, but honestly I think the Tim we first met and saw seasons 1 -5 ish is long gone. He's now and executive producer and has more of a stake in this show. Basically it's his and Heidi's baby. The Tim who used to give us such candid reviews on "Tim's Take" is no more. I too found his tears a bit fake. Nonetheless I had no problem with him saving Char. I don't think she'll win, but it wasn't any worse than last year's pity save.

Is Elena the one who started using it? On Project Runway, that is. I'm not giving her credit for inventing it.

Sorry, still not seeing the problem. ;)

No. That would be season 6 designer Ra'mon Lawrence. He  made a green neoprene dress and dyed it in the toilet.

 

THANK you. No "kind of" about it: butts.

 

Didn't Joy on "My Name is Earl" call them double butt necklaces or something? I remember the tie in episode and now when I see them that's all I call them.

 

Samantha was the right choice for the auf. If you are going to do basic, it has to be perfect and hers wasn't. She made nothing but forgettable looks all season so it was her time to go.

My choices for top two were Korina and Sean. I really liked Korina's and it was my choice for the win. It reminded me a little of the Tadashi Shoji cape that Janelle Monae wore. Sean's was nice because it showcased the jewelry.  I thought wearing the 3 piece set was a it overdone, like a magazine ad for Chopard, but his dress was dramatic and well made and he pleased the client.

 

I'm still ignoring Amanda's over praised crap.

[Ketzel]

Wow, that cape was absolutely stunning. As was the styling, especially the shoes. If that was the sort of look Korina was going for, it only makes what she actually produced even less successful by comparison.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Ketzel

[kat165]

I'm thinking that the way Zac gets right in there man-handles the models during the closer look is because he's a designer, which Nina and Heidi are not. I think he does it to see how well it's sewed and how the fabrics lays. He does seem a bit "handy" but I think he's more manipulating the design/fabic rather than feeling up the models. He seems to treat the models as if they were plastic mannikins.

Edited September 6, 2014 by kat165

[roctavia]

I think the Tim Gunn save is fake... it's something to make us think that there is this chance that Tim could correct a wrong aufing, (which could have been helpful in some of the older seasons) but really, the production just uses it as a way to manipulate everyone. He probably is told when to use it or who to use it on.... and despite his 'if it were later in the show' comment, they probably require him to use it before there are only X number of designers left.

 

I think it's a sham.

[Lizzing]

Is Elena the one who started using it? On Project Runway, that is. I'm not giving her credit for inventing it.

The first time I remember seeing neoprene was in Season 6, when Ra'mon famously dyed his yellow neoprene in the toilet and made the model wear the still wet dress on the runway.  And Nina loved it.

[meep.meep]

And it was the only memorable dress produced that entire season.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with Nina saying that Samantha's dress looked like one for an intern and "not the important person."  Interns are playing a supporting role.  This gala dress was supposed to be a focal point and highlight the gems.  You don't know who would be wearing it - could be  star, could be a star's wife, could be the old lady who's given millions to the opera, could be a senator, or a judge, or a businesswoman.  That person needs to shine.  Samantha's dress was not going to make anyone shine.

[kat165]

From what I recall the Tim Gunn save was grew out of Tim wanting to keep whats her name (sorry, I just can't remember her name, from 2 or 3 seasons ago - the winner before Dimitry's season?) in after she was aufed, seeing potential in her that the judges were overlooking due to one bad outfit. She went on to win the competition although I'm not defending her win. In that case he felt the designer had more to show us. The season after that was when the Tim Gunn Save came into play and unfortunately, after the initial save, he seems to be using it for personality reasons rather than for talent.

 

Aha, her name is Michelle, season 11.

Edited September 6, 2014 by kat165

[Milaxx]

I think the Tim Gunn save is fake... it's something to make us think that there is this chance that Tim could correct a wrong aufing, (which could have been helpful in some of the older seasons) but really, the production just uses it as a way to manipulate everyone. He probably is told when to use it or who to use it on.... and despite his 'if it were later in the show' comment, they probably require him to use it before there are only X number of designers left.

 

I think it's a sham.

I agree with Chattygal here. In Michelle's case the save was warranted. Since it has officially been called the Tim Gunn save it's more of an emotional response to designers Tim likes. Like Justin, Char isn't bad. They both are just so so designers. I don't see Char winning anymore than I did Justin. As for production telling him who to pick; I have my doubts. Tim *is* production. He and Heidi own this baby.They are the executive producers of this show. I truly believe these people are who he wants to save. I think we the viewers may need to adjust our expectations of who Tim will save.

 

I also don't think the time factor is a matter of money. The show had less money and the prizes weren't as big when the show first started. 

Edited September 6, 2014 by Milaxx

[panthergirl13]

 

Was I the only person insulted when Nina dissed Samantha's dress as being something that a PR intern would wear? I think Heidi followed it up with a star's assistant. They're such snobs. I was put off by that comment. Hey, maybe if the fashion industry paid its interns . . .

 

You were not the only one. They both said something about how it's not what the "important person" would be wearing. I'd love to see Heidi function on the red carpet without those unimportant people behind her.

 

ETA: Should have read the entire thread before commenting, as I see this 'important person' thing has already been called out. 

Edited September 6, 2014 by panthergirl13

[GaT]

I'm thinking that the way Zac gets right in there man-handles the models during the closer look is because he's a designer, which Nina and Heidi are not. I think he does it to see how well it's sewed and how the fabrics lays. He does seem a bit "handy" but I think he's more manipulating the design/fabic rather than feeling up the models. He seems to treat the models as if they were plastic mannikins.

Since Zac is gay, I'm pretty sure he isn't feeling up the models LOL

[Julia]

Since Zac is gay, I'm pretty sure he isn't feeling up the models LOL

 

I was going to say. I think he isn't as respectful of their personal space as he could be, although since the job is basically showroom model that may be part of the package. As far as I know, though, he's in a committed relationship with a person who isn't female, so I really don't think he's in it for the cheap thrills.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Julia

[Maya]

I liked Emily's red dress the best. The color was beautiful, it draped very nicely in the front and back, and I liked the interesting skirt. The model looked young and cute, and the necklace looked awesome with it.

[RealityGal]

Since Zac is gay, I'm pretty sure he isn't feeling up the models LOL

but what a cover that would be!  Zac pretending to be gay so he can get handsy with models.  It sounds like the premise for an 80's movie, although he would have to be outed as a straight guy and find love in the end.  Oh wait, didn't Cuba Gooding Jr. do a movie about that where he was on a cruise or something?

[mansonlamps]

They need to get rid of the Tim Gunn save. It would have made sense if he actually saved someone because, though they made something heinous, they consistently have shown innovation and talent that the judges might not have been able to pick out yet in the competition. Instead, he deliberately doesn't save Char and even comments on why, and comes back later and saves her based on a purely emotional response, nothing to do with talent or potential. I call B.S.

Also, is the one day challenge even a whole day? By the time they hear the challenge, select the jewelry, go to the Charles James exhibit and then to Mood, how many hours in the day can be left? We can compare them negatively to prior seasons designers, but those contestants quite often got two days for a challenge as opposed to part of a day. I'm impressed the models aren't half naked sometimes frankly.

Edited September 6, 2014 by mansonlamps

[NikSac]

I love Char, but I'm in the camp of once you're out you're out. If they insist on this Tim Gunn save nonsense then there needs to be stipulations. Give them half the money the rest of the designers get for the rest of the challenges, send them home two hours earlier, or make them last pick for every challenge where you get to choose stuff. It's sad when the Amazing Race is the only reality show where if you are saved by a non-elmination they make it tough on you. 

 

Can we add a stipulation about not fake crying when you use "the save"? Please?  like the other stipulations a lot. That could be fun.

[One Tough Cookie]

And I'm looking at you "instagram moment" Nina.

 

 

I wonder if she even knows what Instagram is????

 

I would totally wear the sapphire jewelry set and Korina's necklace. Oh, who am kidding, I'd wear ANYTHNG from the show!

 

eta: Jewelry ,that is :)

Edited September 7, 2014 by One More Time

[aradia22]

 

 

Since Zac is gay, I'm pretty sure he isn't feeling up the models LOL

but what a cover that would be!  Zac pretending to be gay so he can get handsy with models.  It sounds like the premise for an 80's movie, although he would have to be outed as a straight guy and find love in the end.

OK, I know this is the plot to something but I've watched too many rom-coms to know which one. Which reminds me, I can't wait for The Mindy Project to come back.

[PepperMonkey]

Upon rewatch:

Korina - it bugged me that the carpet coat didn't close. Like the model was holding it on, basically, and it had a 5 inch gap in the front. Also, I know it was a heavy fabric, but it looked rumpled or something. I actually liked the dress better without the coat, except for that funky neckline drape in the front.

Sean - as I stated recently and previously, I don't like him. I think he's got all full of himself. The faces he was pulling on the runway in relation to other designers' feedback bugged me and even if they were edited in later to look that way, I still think he took Kini's immunity last week so I was way glad he didn't win this week. He's nice to look at though.

Which brings me to Alexander: I agree with the Peanuts remark although I can't remember which Peanut it is that he resembles. It's one of the lesser ones. He also brings Stewie Griffin to my mind. He should have gone home instead of Samantha, but I'm okay with her leaving because she really hasn't done anything special to this point.

Charketa - still don't get why Tim saved her, but I don't really care.

Amanda - someone/ several ones nailed it up above: Lucy Ricardo playing bridge with the Mertzes.

Kini - dude, I love you but that neoprene dress was terrible. The bust was unforgiveable. I hated the whole thing.

Fade - please don't get sent home. I want all of your t-shirts, too.

Emily - don't even remember it that well, but I'm sure it was fine.

This season! Oh my gawd. I'm bored to tears.

Heidi needs to leave America's Got Talent and try to bring this flagship back to its former glory. Tim can stay or go; I no longer care.

Nina needs to GO NOW. Zac = meh, but I don't hate him, so he can stay.

I hope the show lasts, but if it doesn't they had a good run. Well, I hope it lasts if they can get some of the mojo back. The whole thing just makes me sad now.

Except for Swatch: we don't see enough of him, though.

Edited September 7, 2014 by PepperMonkey

[NikSac]

Do we get to vote?  More Swatch, less Tim, no Nina, and I think I'd be pretty happy with the show again. I'm with you PepperMonkey. I'm still hoping the Mojo is recoverable.

[ratgirlagogo]

Taking the designers to a Charles James show and then tasking them with making a glamorous, spectacular ball gown in SIXTEEN HOURS (or was it even less? probably) might be the single most sadistic thing they've ever done on this show.  I don't think even Chris March could have pulled this one off successfully.

 

KimberStormer:

The hilarious thing about sending the designers to a Charles James exhibit for a one-day challenge is that if there's one thing other than design that Charles James is famous for, it's for being late.  His clients had to basically tear their dresses out of his hands because he never felt they were done; he saw them as his enemies, getting between him and perfection.  He took months to make a dress, and he had an army of people working for him...

Thank you!!!!  This challenge would have tempted me to walk off the show if I were a contestant, frankly. 

 

Amanda annoyed me when she talked about how Charles James was so punk rock. First of all, no. I would never look at any of his designs and mentally label them as punk rock

Far be it for me to defend Amanda, exactly - but I first discovered Charles James (and the history of fashion, for that matter) when I was a punk and I had the same reaction. Not that I thought he "was punk rock" but that I could see that like punk style his dresses celebrated theatricality and artifice.  ( I suspect Amanda was responding to a question and quoted just enough out of context to sound ridiculous - as per the usual on this show.) Until I was a punk I had no interest in fashion and thought it was shallow, trivial, conventional, etc. etc.  It had never occurred to me that not just street fashion, but High Fashion could be art.  Any woman in a Charles James dress would be every bit as unafraid as Poly Styrene of "making people stare." 

Edited September 7, 2014 by ratgirlagogo

[Surrealist]

Except for Swatch: we don't see enough of him, though.

Can we switch out Tim and/or Nina for Swatch?

That choice might salvage the show.

[English Teacher]

The randomness by which some of these atrocities are winning make me think that Swatch is a silent judge. I think whichever one he pees on is labeled the winner. It makes as much sense to me as how the judges are actually awarding their wins.

[NikSac]

The randomness by which some of these atrocities are winning make me think that Swatch is a silent judge. I think whichever one he pees on is labeled the winner. It makes as much sense to me as how the judges are actually awarding their wins.

 

I think Swatch has way better taste than that though. Unless maybe he pees on the least favorite and the judges are getting confused and giving it the award as the winner. I suddenly feel really bad for the models again. Dog pee? Toilet water? Butt (or worse) hanging out?  eek.

[sleepyjean]

I think he isn't as respectful of their personal space as he could be, although since the job is basically showroom model that may be part of the package. As far as I know, though, he's in a committed relationship with a person who isn't female, so I really don't think he's in it for the cheap thrills.

 

Zac lost me in the very first episode this season when he lifted up the flap on this blouse(

 

http://mylt.ltcdn.com/d6/sites/mylifetime.com/files/images/imagecache/pr_rr_new_photo_gallery_full/photo_gallery_frame/2014/07/21/pr13-rr-ep1-jm-f.jpg) to show that the model's breast *could* be exposed if there was a stiff wind. He covered her with his hand, and was careful to not actually rest his palm on her breast, but it still skeeved me out as a completely unnecessary move on his part. The fact that he tried to block her breast for the cameras doesn't excuse the fact that he touched her in that area and exposed her to his own eyes, and in the process totally overstepped all appropriate boundaries. I despise and refuse to accept the "oh, he's gay, so it's not that bad" and "that's just how it is in the fashion industry" excuses. He's a grown man and knows better.

 

In this latest episode, his comments were extra sneery and snide. It made me dislike him even more.

 

As for Nina's comment about the important person, that didn't bother me. First of all, Nina is a snob. So if it was a snotty comment, it wouldn't shock me. But I don't think she was making a broad commentary that some folks are, generally speaking, more valuable human beings than others. I think she meant within the context of a red carpet event. On the red carpet, the tv cameras, the paparazzi, the stylists, the reporters, the hubub, hell, the red carpet itself - all of those things are there for and because of the people walking the red carpet. In that situation, they are the important ones because they are the focus of all eyes. The staff, interns, and supporting people are there to make it happen, and it certainly couldn't happen without them, but the public does not care who they are, what they're wearing, what they're doing, or what they have to say about anything.

[Sunnyside]

I guess Tim is using saves now based on popularity as if it's some Ms/Mr Congeniality award, instead of the original purpose in saving one with overlooked potential. This way, it doesn't look as bad when they're auf'd anyway, and the focus is on their great personality, not their evident lack of talent all along.

[Milaxx]

I wonder if she even knows what Instagram is????

 

I would totally wear the sapphire jewelry set and Korina's necklace. Oh, who am kidding, I'd wear ANYTHNG from the show!

 

eta: Jewelry ,that is :)

Nina is very active on social media. In fact it was Nina who introduced me to Pinterest way before it got big.

Zac lost me in the very first episode this season when he lifted up the flap on this blouse(

 

http://mylt.ltcdn.com/d6/sites/mylifetime.com/files/images/imagecache/pr_rr_new_photo_gallery_full/photo_gallery_frame/2014/07/21/pr13-rr-ep1-jm-f.jpg) to show that the model's breast *could* be exposed if there was a stiff wind. He covered her with his hand, and was careful to not actually rest his palm on her breast, but it still skeeved me out as a completely unnecessary move on his part. The fact that he tried to block her breast for the cameras doesn't excuse the fact that he touched her in that area and exposed her to his own eyes, and in the process totally overstepped all appropriate boundaries. I despise and refuse to accept the "oh, he's gay, so it's not that bad" and "that's just how it is in the fashion industry" excuses. He's a grown man and knows better.

I realize it doesn't make sense in the real world but in the fashion world it is appropriate. Models are little more than living mannequins.  

[BusyOctober]

Korina's look won fair and square since it was the only finished and over all well styled thing shown. However, I'm still confused over Nina & Heidi's love for it since they both crave a "youthful" esthetic. That Southwestern-y carpet coat only brought one thing to my mind...Chico's. It's a nice store but hardly the place any of these designers' "girls" would be shopping in for another 20-30 years.

I guess I'm stupider than I thought when it comes to fashion because I would label Amanda's jumpsuit as a catsuit. And can we please STOP with the jumpsuit? Very few women can pull that look off. There isn't a high demand for them as far as I can tell. When I look around TJ Maxx or Marshall's, their clearance racks have several of them sadly clinging to their dreams of relevance by a broken hanger while their flared cuffs sweep the floor, slowly being devoured by dust bunnies.

I totally agree Sean's gown was a Princess Di rip off. However, Princess Di's designer would never allow the messy looking bunched up seams where the velvet hem was sewn onto the dress.

Can one of the other contestants use some scrap material to make a little chinstrap for Alexander? He looks as if he were...lobotomized? Given electro-shock therapy?...with his mouth hanging open all the time.

If Char really did tell Amanda last week that every one of her wins takes a win away from someone else, I wish Amanda had said "now that you used up Tim's Save, you've taken it away from one of us."

[WearyTraveler]

I also don't think the time factor is a matter of money. The show had less money and the prizes weren't as big when the show first started. 

 

The prizes are not provided by the network, though.  They are `provided by the sponsors who then don't pay the network any advertising fees.  The way I understand it, the network makes money by selling time for commercials that air during the show, the price they can charge advertisers depends on the ratings, and if ratings are going down (which is what usually happens with all shows), they can't charge as much as they used to.  If the cost of running the show is higher that the sum of all the money they can get for ad sales, they cancel the show.  A smart network would watch the ratings trend and cancel the show before the cost surpasses the revenues, or if the network sees ad revenue dropping, they would ask the show to cut costs if it wants to remain on the air.

 

The companies that provide the prizes don't pay the network any money, they provide the prizes in exchange for their name being mentioned on the show.  But, these companies will consider ratings; after all, they don't want to give away a prize worth thousands of dollars to a show that nobody watches.

 

So, a decline in ratings explains both, the budget cuts to one day challenges and the sponsors that are less sophisticated than the ones we used to have.

 

__________________________

 

That said, I think we should start one of those online petitions to bring back two-day challenges to PR.  Maybe if we get enough signatures, they'll at least have a few challenges that are longer.

 

Edited September 7, 2014 by WearyTraveler

[millennium]

I almost missed it for the same reason.  Check your listings and DVR again, because they aired some new Girlfriends makeover show instead of repeat PR in that timeslot immediately following PR.  You actually need to manually record the To Be Announced slot or you'll miss PR.

 

I settled in to watch the second broadcast of PR Thursday night (until this week they ran the new episode twice, back to back), but found that nasty Girlfriends show there instead.   Saw only a minute of it.   What an annoying and stupid show.  I couldn't watch PR until earlier tonight when it finally showed up on demand.

 

I didn't like Korina's design at all ... that huge red coat draped on that super-tall model, with her hair slicked back, I kept having flashbacks to this guy from the original Battlestar Galactica:

 

 

Truth is, I didn't like anything in this competition.   The talent level among this group seems low compared to other seasons.

[NikSac]

Zac lost me in the very first episode this season when he lifted up the flap on this blouse(

 

http://mylt.ltcdn.com/d6/sites/mylifetime.com/files/images/imagecache/pr_rr_new_photo_gallery_full/photo_gallery_frame/2014/07/21/pr13-rr-ep1-jm-f.jpg) to show that the model's breast *could* be exposed if there was a stiff wind.

 

This might be the one where he lost me too... I don't even remember anymore, but I know him pawing the models started to really gross me out this season.  I've watched him stick his hand up wayyyy too many dresses and tops. I don't care if he's gay, it's still inappropriate!

[terrymct]

This might be the one where he lost me too... I don't even remember anymore, but I know him pawing the models started to really gross me out this season.  I've watched him stick his hand up wayyyy too many dresses and tops. I don't care if he's gay, it's still inappropriate!

 

 

The thing is, though, that the models are there to show how the dress or outfit looks when worn.  Designers and design judges have to consider potential wardrobe failures, what the construction of the garment is like, etc.   The models know this.  It's part of the job, just as walking around the sewing room half nekkid during fittings is.   You or I might not want that done to us, but we didn't pursue a career as a model and particularly in a judged design competition.

[RealityGal]

I have disliked her ever since she co-conspired with korina to be a mean girl to amanda. I cant remember the comments she made to amanda but I remember being surprised at her meanness and her lack of maturity. She lost me in that moment and so I was not happy that tim brought her back.

 

I don't think we ever saw her make any comments to Amanda, we heard Amanda telling us what Char said to her, only from Amanda's POV, without any context.  IIRC

[WearyTraveler]

I don't think we ever saw her make any comments to Amanda, we heard Amanda telling us what Char said to her, only from Amanda's POV, without any context.  IIRC

 

But she must have said something because in one of Char's talking heads for this episode, she said she now understood Amanda better because she too (Char) had left and come back.

 

Last episode Amanda said that Char told her that every one of her wins was taking away a win from someone else in the competition. 

 

I thought Char's TH in this episode pretty much confirmed that if she didn't use those exact same words Amanda attributed to her, she used very similar words.  Plus, last week's episode also had Char mocking Amanda to her face in the workroom and actually saying "I'm imitating Amanda".  It was pretty childless and insensitive.

 

That said, I give most everyone a pass on this show because the producer manipulation is rampant and because it's a high pressure environment that brings out the worst in most people.  I think that if she at least saw her mistake, that's progress.

 

But, I don't think she deserved being saved.  None of her designs have been anything to write home about.  I wish the save would be used for a designer who is consistently on the top and suddenly has a very bad day.

Edited September 7, 2014 by WearyTraveler

[English Teacher]

Char openly mocked Amanda in the workroom by a sarcastic parroting of something Amanda said, and then said to everyone that she was mocking her. This followed with these smug little mean girls smirks shared with Korina and Char...and having Amanda excuse herself to go find something and leave the room to cry. I was impressed by Amanda's dignity in the situation, actually. She didn't cry in front of them.

And, yes, we did not hear Char say that Amanda's win deprives the other judges, but Char pretty much confessed it after getting the save by saying she understands Amanda more bc they both got second chances.

I do not believe Amanda made up what was said at all. We didn't hear it bc PR is not wasting the manpower or money by having the cameramen in their rooms at all time. I think they get there in the morning and that is all we see...unless they are expecting drama. You can bet that Kini went home that night and bitched to one if s roommates about Sean. PR would have shown it if they bothered to tape it. Just MHO

Weary Traveler....sorry that I echoed you...we must have been typing at the same time, lol!

[RealityGal]

But she must have said something because in one of Char's talking heads for this episode, she said she now understood Amanda better because she too (Char) had left and come back.

 

Last episode Amanda said that Char told her that every one of her wins was taking away a win from someone else in the competition. 

 

I thought Char's TH in this episode pretty much confirmed that if she didn't use those exact same words Amanda attributed to her, she used very similar words.  Plus, last week's episode also had Char mocking Amanda to her face in the workroom and actually saying "I'm imitating Amanda".  It was pretty childless and insensitive.

 

That said, I give most everyone a pass on this show because the producer manipulation is rampant and because it's a high pressure environment that brings out the worst in most people.  I think that if she at least saw her mistake, that's progress.

 

But, I don't think she deserved being saved.  None of her designs have been anything to write home about.  I wish the save would be used for a designer who is consistently on the top and suddenly has a very bad day.

 

If I said I "understood" someone better in that context, it just may mean I harbored a private resentment that had gone away because I better understood their position.

 

There have been times where I've privately disliked someone...in fact, I can think of someone right now who annoys me to death, and I'm not in a position to ever tell him about it, but something could happen that would make me understand his position better, and I think I would say something simliar to what Char said in her TH.

 

So, I don't know that it requires having said something to someone to say that you  understand them better.  

 

As for mocking Amanda to her face, I don't specifically remember that moment (and I don't generally re-watch episodes) but I do know that they all joke and play in the workroom, and the joking is quite often catty from what I remember of the show.  I do know that Char did say something about Amanda in last week's TH.

 

But I don't think we can truly understand what Char may have said to Amanda as it regards the "you're taking wins from everyone else" because, while I don't think Amanda would straight up lie about Char having said something, we haven't heard the context, the tone, or even the exact words.  

 

However, having said that, I totally agree with you about the TG save.  I think it should have been saved for someone who was producing wonderful work but had an off day, or at least for someone who was taking fashion risks and one of them just happened to go wrong.  I love Fade's work, but I fear at some point Nina will proclaim that its not appropriate for instagram, twitter or snapchat and therefore is much too matronly, and it won't be short enough for Heidi and they will send him home for something.  Or Kini will just have another off day.  Char wasn't producing anything that was all that fashion forward or awesome, and in fact, I thought he had just told her he would save her later in the competition just to be nice.

[RealityGal]

Char openly mocked Amanda in the workroom by a sarcastic parroting of something Amanda said, and then said to everyone that she was mocking her. This followed with these smug little mean girls smirks shared with Korina and Char...and having Amanda excuse herself to go find something and leave the room to cry. I was impressed by Amanda's dignity in the situation, actually. She didn't cry in front of them.

And, yes, we did not hear Char say that Amanda's win deprives the other judges, but Char pretty much confessed it after getting the save by saying she understands Amanda more bc they both got second chances.

I do not believe Amanda made up what was said at all. We didn't hear it bc PR is not wasting the manpower or money by having the cameramen in their rooms at all time. I think they get there in the morning and that is all we see...unless they are expecting drama. You can bet that Kini went home that night and bitched to one if s roommates about Sean. PR would have shown it if they bothered to tape it. Just MHO

Weary Traveler....sorry that I echoed you...we must have been typing at the same time, lol!

 

I've always said that I can only see what the producers show me, so I have to take that as fact, but the mean girl looks to each other have always seemed a little suspect because you can paste one persons random look with another persons random look and make it look like they are exchanging mean girl looks.  And as I've said, I don't neccessarily think Char's TH was an admission of anything other than that she understood Amanda's position.  

 

All things considered, I think the designers probably go back to GW at night and bitch and get catty about everything.  I think its unreasonable to focus on what one person said another person said and not straight out have them defend or explain or add context to whatever they said.  And thats how the Amanda situation went down and thats part of what makes me awfully suspicious about it.  Not only did they allow her to explain both "fights" from her point of view in the TH, they never had a TH from Char or Korina devoted to exactly what they said, what the context was, and why they said it.  I know Char said a little, but it certainly wasn't the time they devoted to Amanda explaining herself not only in the TH, but to Fade, in two scenes, who was just listening.  So thats three times when Amanda was talking about a conflict only from her point of view.  I don't think either Char or Korina got the same amount of time to explain their side of the story.  

 

Even when Ken was going nuts, most clearly going nuts with his facemask on and his bootie shorts in his hands....even then Tim seemed to get both sides of the story.  And Ken barely had a side of the conflict, but whatever he had to say they got it, whatever Alexander had to say, they got it.

 

But we didn't even know the context, and no, they wouldn't tape it, I get that, but neither Char nor Korina were even allowed to explain the context, their tone,  or what happened from their point of view.  I agree with Fade, something had to set them off, I don't think a reasonable person would just say something like that to a person who just walked in the room and was minding their own business.  

 

I get suspicious when someone presents a story in which everyone is acting unreasonably except them.  I mean, it happens, sometimes people are just unreasonable assholes.  Its very true, but more often than not a conflict is something that is a back and forth, and so I'm suspicious when Amanda presents the story as "here I was, minding my own business, just living my life, and these two girls come out of the blue and are mean to me!"

[English Teacher]

Good points, RealityGal. The truth is, we will never know the real truth.

[Ketzel]

I know we're in the realm of pure speculation at this point, but I did wonder when the Amanda quoted Char as saying every one of Amanda's wins takes a win from someone else, what the exact context was. Of course, said in the middle of a competition, that's kind of a silly statement. Every time someone wins that isn't you, they've taken a win from you and that's the way it goes. But I thought at the time Char probably meant it in reference to Amanda getting a second chance at PR altogether. IOW, if Amanda had been limited to her single season, if she hadn't been brought back by the producers, the others doing PR on the show for the first time would have more chances to win. I think there probably is some resentment against the "returnee" and Amanda probably wasn't helping herself by her attitude of gracious condescension and "helpful" advice. Then, when Char got auf'd, and (like everyone else on the show ever) felt it was premature and was sad and disappointed -- and then got to return to, in her eyes, show her real potential, she had more insight into how Amanda felt and why she would come back when she had the chance.

[Julia]

I have disliked her ever since she co-conspired with korina to be a mean girl to amanda. I cant remember the comments she made to amanda but I remember being surprised at her meanness and her lack of maturity. She lost me in that moment and so I was not happy that tim brought her back.

 

What Char said to Amanda was that she thought Amanda was putting on a performance for the camera. She was, at the time, agreeing with Korinna. Amanda is, to my mind, clearly putting on a performance for the camera, so I'm not sure what her issue is, but apparently she had the vapors really hard.

 

Korinna, who started it, then threw Char under the bus and said that she would never "take it that far" (which is to say far enough for Amanda to hear about it and put on a tragic martyr performance for the cameras, or as I now think of it, a full Sandhya). 

 

Personally, I think Char was being honest with the wrong person, Korinna's a manipulative bitch, and Amanda's a great big fake who's putting on a performance for the cameras. Of the three of them, Char's not the one I'd pick to never see again at this point.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Julia

[WearyTraveler]

Below a summary of Amanda-gate (all emphasis is my own, underlined text is to differentiate the stuff from every episode; the events are closely related and I feel one can't discuss the one without getting into the other).

 

Event in this episode (Around the 13:40 minute mark):

 

1) Char asks Amanda how she learned how to sow.  Amanda is not being very effusive, she just answers, in a matter-off-fact way: "my mama".  Char awwws and tells her how her grandmother taught her, and a cute story about jeans her grandmother made. Amanda seems to warm up a little about the story and smiles at Char.

 

2) Char's talking head: "I can relate a little bit more to Amanda now because we've both had second chances. I think both our hunger is even more greater now"

 

As for last week, I've re-watched and this is how it went:

 

1) At the beginning there are tense looks between Amanda, Korina and Char.  Korina says: "yeah" (pause, more tense looks) "just don't think about it" and Amanda replies: "are you kidding me? That's all I can think about".  In the TH Amanda says "Korina, out of the blue, told me: 'you know I've been meaning to tell you that I think you're a phony', she actually used the word phony".  Amanda cries.

 

2) After the button bag pick, when Korina and Amanda end up having to work in a team, Korina says in a TH: "I'm not quite sure yet how I feel about Amanda.  It's hard to get close to somebody that you're not sure if you trust".

 

3) After they get back to the workroom, Korina and Amanda are discussing Korina's design (around the 13:19 minute mark).  Amanda says "that's just slick!". Korina: "yeah". Amanda: "That looks so good!". Then there's a Talking Head with Korina saying she feels confident and that she's doing the design she loves in the fabrics she loves.  After the TH we move back to the workroom where Amanda is pinning something onto her mannequin and says: "uh! I'm excited about this".  Camera pans to Char (in a mocking voice, trying to be sultry, like one of those phone sex lines): "uh, I'm excited about this! I can't contain myself ". Korina: "Are you excited?" Char: "I'm mocking Amanda". At this point Amanda makes a face, like she's not sure where that is coming from.  Char: "she said she was excited".

 

4) Then we hear a voice over of a Char talking head as the camera is still showing the workroom. Char: "Honestly, I don't think that it's fair that Amanda was brought back. I told her this, too. I'm like, I think that there's something ingenuine about her.  That's honestly how I feel".  Then Amanda walks out of the room while a Korina TH plays over the workroom: "Amanda is visibly upset, but I'm not really gonna worry about that right now.  I have too much work to think about".  While the talking head plays, Korina is smirking, and Char has a Cheshire Cat grin on her face, while they exchange what appear to be knowing looks.

 

5) Fade and Amanda are in the break room.  Fade: "what happened?".  Amanda: "We're sitting around talking, this morning and Korina told me that I was a big, fat phony".  Fade: "She did say that?" Amanda (nodding and containing tears): "and then Char agreed" Fade: "oh, no!". Amanda: "And, I'm like, I didn't ask. And then they were like..". Fade: "something must have triggered it". Amanda: "Something... and I don't know... I was so tired... I don't even know".  Fade: "Maybe like, Korina was in the bottom and you were in the top, again, you know?. Amanda: "Well, Char told me that all the wins that I get just are taking away wins from other people". Fade: "She did not say that!". Amanda: "She said that, she's like 'stop!'... it just hurt my feelings so bad!".

 

6) TH of Amanda saying she had no idea that's how people saw her.  Back to the workroom where Amanda says she's grateful Fade walked in, so she could let out steam and Fade says he'd listen to her anytime, even if he has to send the model naked. Fade: "I really mean it!"

 

______________________________________________

 

So, my take on this whole "debacle" after having watched and transcribed both incidents, is that:

 

A) even if Amanda didn't use the exact wording, the word phony was probably used.  Perhaps Korina said: "sometimes you come off a little phony", or "several people in the workroom have told me they think you're a phony".  Korina admits she doesn't trust Amanda, so, that is at least an indication that something along the lines of Amanda not being trustworthy was mentioned.

 

B) Char probably did tell her she thought Amanda was stealing wins from other designers. Char herself admits to telling Amanda she honestly didn't think it was fair that Amanda was brought back.

 

C) Amanda was visibly affected, and although she comes off smug at times, there's no justification for the idiocy and the meanness of the whole interaction.  I've been on the receiving end of that cattiness fest, born mainly out envy (way back in high school when I got good grades and others didn't), and Amanda's reactions felt pretty real to me.  Char ad Korina were behaving like bitchy teenage girls, while Amanda was trying to make the best out of a bad situation.  She could have chosen to be a bitch too, but she didn't. She was being supportive of her teammate and behaving like an adult, keeping the end goal in sight (IIRC she did this in her season too, when she had to work with Michelle), but the other two just couldn't contain themselves (Michelle, OTH, also behaved like an adult and they won that challenge). 

 

D) After being kicked off, Char got a big, heaping, helping of humble pie and seemed to actually grow up.  I believe her attempt at a conversation with Amanda this episode was her way to apologize; having tasted what it feels like to be eliminated and to come back.  Probably thinking: "oh, shit! I bet people are going to feel about me the way I felt about Amanda".  So, I think she grew up a few years in the space of a day.

 

__________________

 

Design wise I don't have a favorite yet.  Nobody has really wowed me with their fashion innovation.  Then again, the constraints of the challenges don't allow for much.  Personality wise, Fade is my favorite; his designs are cool, but I don't think they are high fashion, or that innovative.  We've seen versions of his stuff around.  All this to say that I'm not siding with Amanda because she's my favorite and I love her designs, like I said, she comes off smug at times.  I'm siding with her because I think she was wronged here.

Edited September 7, 2014 by WearyTraveler

[vibeology]

I totally agree Sean's gown was a Princess Di rip off. However, Princess Di's designer would never allow the messy looking bunched up seams where the velvet hem was sewn onto the dress.

 

It's not so much that its a dress from Diana's closet as it is a Princess Diana homemade Halloween costume. It didn't have the polish that her dresses had. Of course, Sean had like half a day to make the thing, so he gets a bit of a pass from me on the finishings, but its still a dated, derivative dress.

 

The thing is, though, that the models are there to show how the dress or outfit looks when worn.  Designers and design judges have to consider potential wardrobe failures, what the construction of the garment is like, etc.   The models know this.  It's part of the job, just as walking around the sewing room half nekkid during fittings is.   You or I might not want that done to us, but we didn't pursue a career as a model and particularly in a judged design competition.

 

Yep. I have no problem with how Zac interacts with the models. Considering those girls are half naked room with dozens of people and cameras all around them, I think they know what they're getting into when they book PR. Models are used to being touched, prodded and undressed. Its part of the gig. Could Zac be a little nicer about it? Maybe but I don't think he has too. 

[Day2Day]

   Sleep-in-Sunday for Swatch.

[RealityGal]

Good points, RealityGal. The truth is, we will never know the real truth.

And I think thats the point I really wanted to make is that we will never know the real truth.  But I know in my real life in general, I'm always suspicious of people who say someone just "told them something out of the blue."  Generally, if you ask the other party, you'll find out that maybe wasn't entirely the case.  

[RealityGal]

Below a summary of Amanda-gate (all emphasis is my own, underlined text is to differentiate the stuff from every episode; the events are closely related and I feel one can't discuss the one without getting into the other).

 

As for last week, I've re-watched and this is how it went:

 

1) At the beginning there are tense looks between Amanda, Korina and Char.  Korina says: "yeah" (pause, more tense looks) "just don't think about it" and Amanda replies: "are you kidding me? That's all I can think about".  In the TH Amanda says "Korina, out of the blue, told me: 'you know I've been meaning to tell you that I think you're a phony', she actually used the word phony".  Amanda cries.

 

2) After the button bag pick, when Korina and Amanda end up having to work in a team, Korina says in a TH: "I'm not quite sure yet how I feel about Amanda.  It's hard to get close to somebody that you're not sure if you trust".

 

3) After they get back to the workroom, Korina and Amanda are discussing Korina's design (around the 13:19 minute mark).  Amanda says "that's just slick!". Korina: "yeah". Amanda: "That looks so good!". Then there's a Talking Head with Korina saying she feels confident and that she's doing the design she loves in the fabrics she loves.  After the TH we move back to the workroom where Amanda is pinning something onto her mannequin and says: "uh! I'm excited about this".  Camera pans to Char (in a mocking voice, trying to be sultry, like one of those phone sex lines): "uh, I'm excited about this! I can't contain myself ". Korina: "Are you excited?" Char: "I'm mocking Amanda". At this point Amanda makes a face, like she's not sure where that is coming from.  Char: "she said she was excited".

 

4) Then we hear a voice over of a Char talking head as the camera is still showing the workroom. Char: "Honestly, I don't think that it's fair that Amanda was brought back. I told her this, too. I'm like, I think that there's something ingenuine about her.  That's honestly how I feel".  Then Amanda walks out of the room while a Korina TH plays over the workroom: "Amanda is visibly upset, but I'm not really gonna worry about that right now.  I have too much work to think about".  While the talking head plays, Korina is smirking, and Char has a Cheshire Cat grin on her face, while they exchange what appear to be knowing looks.

 

5) Fade and Amanda are in the break room.  Fade: "what happened?".  Amanda: "We're sitting around talking, this morning and Korina told me that I was a big, fat phony".  Fade: "She did say that?" Amanda (nodding and containing tears): "and then Char agreed" Fade: "oh, no!". Amanda: "And, I'm like, I didn't ask. And then they were like..". Fade: "something must have triggered it". Amanda: "Something... and I don't know... I was so tired... I don't even know".  Fade: "Maybe like, Korina was in the bottom and you were in the top, again, you know?. Amanda: "Well, Char told me that all the wins that I get just are taking away wins from other people". Fade: "She did not say that!". Amanda: "She said that, she's like 'stop!'... it just hurt my feelings so bad!".

 

6) TH of Amanda saying she had no idea that's how people saw her.  Back to the workroom where Amanda says she's grateful Fade walked in, so she could let out steam and Fade says he'd listen to her anytime, even if he has to send the model naked. Fade: "I really mean it!"

 

______________________________________________

 

 

 

Here is the thing

 

#1 - I have no idea what they were talking about, IIRC neither of them referenced the actual comment Korina made in that conversation.  So its entirely possible that was producer manipulated.  They may have been talking about the judges, or who goes home, or Zac's penchant for ankle boots.  Because the TH is interjected by the producers into the program, I would throw it out as any evidence of what the two of them were talking about.

 

#2 - I don't think its off the mark for her to not trust Amanda, but we have no idea what that lack of trust is based on, because whatever her lack of trust is based on wasn't explained by her.  And honestly, if someone asked her how she felt about Shandaya, she might have answered the same way.  So if the question was "how do you feel about Amanda" and Korina's response was "I'm not quite sure yet how I feel about Amanda.  It's hard to get close to somebody that you're not sure if you trust."  I don't think thats out of line.

 

#3 - I have heard way, way, way, way, way worse in the workroom.  And a lot of them joke and get catty with each other in the workroom.  They almost all do catty impressions of each other.  Char may have had no idea that something like that would set Amanda off given the entire workroom environment of shit talking which generally leads to camaraderie.  A lot of workroom interactions seem to start with a comment that, in the wrong hands, and with the right editing could seem mean, or could seem like innocent shit talking.

 

#4 - I think "while they appear" to exchange knowing looks is the right way to put it.  Like I said, you can only go by what the producers show you, but I think its very easy to manipulate how two people look at each other.  And frankly, I don't think Char's comment to Amanda is all that unfair, if thats how she feels and she told her in a measured even way, I don't think thats all that bad.  People on this board think its unfair for a contestant to get a second chance, so its not crazy to think another contestant feels the same way.  Especially if Amanda, as she enjoys doing in her TH, extols all of her advantages in getting a second chance.  But again, context is key.  What was the situation in which Char said that, did Amanda say something to bring it about, was it in an overall conversation, what was the tone.  

 

#5 - Again, commentary only from Amanda in which everyone else is the bad guy and just out of the blue is telling her mean things that hurt her feelings.  No context except what she tells Fade.  When Fade asks her a question that would have been designed to elicit what may have brought about the entire exchange suddenly its just that Amanda was "too tired" to remember anything.  She can only remember what others said to hurt her feelings, but has sudden amnesia and can't remember what she may have said to bring about such a response? So she can't even remember the entire exchange, just what others said to her out of the blue.  She can't remember anything she might have said to bring about the comments?  That just seems odd to me.  It would seem more realistic to me that if you're awake enough to remember those comments that others made to you, you can probably remember what you may have said to bring out the response.  But what you said may make you look bad so suddenly you were just "too tired."

 

And understand - I'm not saying that it didn't go down the way you said.  But given that we didn't see what happened, that we were pretty much only given one sided explanations by Amanda, and that at least Char seems reasonable and down to earth, I find the entire thing very suspicious.

Edited September 7, 2014 by RealityGal

[Mabinogia]

The way the whole thing was edited is pretty telling to me. This show loves it's villains, yet we have very little of Char or Korina saying anything all that mean to Amanda. Really, I think you're fake and you are taking wins away are light weight compared to what most of the "victims" of this show are faced with. I think that Amanda is just a hyper sensitive very special little snowflake who expected everyone to flock to her to get her very special wisdom and when that didn't happen, she just started to take every little thing said to her as an offense,

 

I hate Korina, and Char lost me a long time ago (at least as a designer) but if the show can't dig up worse footage than what we were shown, then I think this whole attack is more a reflection of Amanda's fragile ego than on the other two. This show has never before shied away from showing someone be mean/cruel/a bully but this time, just don't see it. Hernan (whatever his name was) was way worse to Sandhya and even then I thought she was pushing it going to Tim. Fashion is a cut throat industry. It's time for these delicate little flowers to grow a thicker skin.

 

The only onem, though, who came out looking good in this mess is Fade because I genuinely believe, based on what I've seen of him, that if Korina or Char had come to him instead of Amanda he would have been equally thoughtful and listened to their side.

[sleepyjean]

Korina's look won fair and square since it was the only finished and over all well styled thing shown. However, I'm still confused over Nina & Heidi's love for it since they both crave a "youthful" esthetic.

I agree. I kept thinking back to the season with the British designer the judges complained about every week because his designs were "too madame." Korina's outfit was very madame.

Edited September 8, 2014 by sleepyjean

[RealityCowgirl]

A mindset that ticks me off in any setting, sleepyjean. I'm in (their) "madame" demographic. I'm more confident and adventurous than at any other time in my life. Oh, with a heck of a lot more disposable income than I had when I was in their target audience. But no one's supposed to acknowledge I exist, let alone exist with my own mature fashion sense. The notion that we don't deserve our shot at beautiful, stylish clothing that fits our aesthetics is enfuriating.

[PepperMonkey]

I really love the back and forth on Amanda vs. Korina/Char. As RealityGal says, we will never know the whole truth.

I think it's clear things were said, immature, some of them, and feelings were hurt. I feel that you could tell that Amanda's feelings were hurt, which is why I don't think she lied about it being said, even if we don't know the context.

What all of this tells me more than anything, though, is that WE, of the forums of previously.tv, care more than Bunim/Murray and probably even Heidi and Tim at this point. I'm proud of us for loving our show so much.

Even if it is because we still have such residual good feelings for the first five seasons, and even some of the individual designers on the Lifetime seasons, we still love the show and will be sad to see it go.

Edited September 7, 2014 by PepperMonkey

[NikSac]

The thing is, though, that the models are there to show how the dress or outfit looks when worn.  Designers and design judges have to consider potential wardrobe failures, what the construction of the garment is like, etc.   The models know this.  It's part of the job, just as walking around the sewing room half nekkid during fittings is.   You or I might not want that done to us, but we didn't pursue a career as a model and particularly in a judged design competition.

 

While I mostly agree with you, I don't get why Zac is the only one that feels the need to grope them. When the models end up with skirts that are too short or butt cheeks hanging out I can kinda understand it, it's more of an "oops," but when there's one judge digging at their breasts and crotches (especially when the other judges don't seem to do this), it bothers me. . I guess it's probably a subjective thing. I'm sure I'm also swayed by the fact that my sister is modeling and it grosses me out to think of some judge fondling her.

[terrymct]

While I mostly agree with you, I don't get why Zac is the only one that feels the need to grope them. When the models end up with skirts that are too short or butt cheeks hanging out I can kinda understand it, it's more of an "oops," but when there's one judge digging at their breasts and crotches (especially when the other judges don't seem to do this), it bothers me. . I guess it's probably a subjective thing. I'm sure I'm also swayed by the fact that my sister is modeling and it grosses me out to think of some judge fondling her.

 

 

Perhaps because he's usually the only one among the judges who has actually designed and made clothes.  Heidi is a model.  Nina works at a magazine.  The guests lately tend to be actors, business people, and "personalities".   He's likely to be the only one who can look at a seam and see more than obviously good or bad sewing.