S05.E09: Four Minutes

[Pallas]

Series finale. 

[Fiftyninth]

Well that was a tight four!

[funnygirl]

The end of Midge's set about a woman's ambition was phenomenal.

That's going on Rachel's Emmy reel. (or at least it should!)

Edited May 26, 2023 by funnygirl

[Blakeston]

I would have found this a lot more impressive if Midge's triumphant routine had actually made me laugh. It didn't.

[CinAZ]

I enjoyed it.  Gordon Ford was a dick.

I liked seeing Lenny again, even though it was hard to watch the downfall. At least his last appearance was a happy one.
 Abe didn’t bug me, that was a win. Even Joel’s parents were tolerable.
I was curious of what rose was dying from, but I guess it doesn’t matter. Rose seemed so proud of Midge.

i thought midge would somehow end up with Joel again. I am glad they didn’t go there.

Midge and Susie both ended up very successful, but apparently alone. Just each other.

A fitting end.

 

[whiporee]

28 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I would have found this a lot more impressive if Midge's triumphant routine had actually made me laugh. It didn't.

I laughed out loud during most of it I guess I'm an easier mark. 

Not tons of closure, but a good finale, and it was nice to see Midge and Susie back together like an old married couple, albeit living on different coasts.There was fan service I liked -- seeing Lenny's deterioration, and that Midge and Susie tried to help, but then understanding they couldn't. And I liked in the end, the stuff that needed to be said was said -- Abe told Midge, Midge told Rose, Joel was okay accepting the ribbing at his expense, Imogene gave Joel the side eye, Moishe and Shirley still love each other. And in the end, Midge gave herself her big break, just like she always did -- her skill and and talent and nerve put her on the stage, and it put her over the top. 

There was something interesting, though. I watched the finale of season 2 before watching this tonight. Midge had just taken Shy's offer, and she came to tell Joel she knew she'd end up alone now that she had full-out chosen this life. No Jello molds, no three before 30. And she was fine with it -- did it without hesitation and really never looked back. That last clip of her walking through her giant, empty mansion proved it to be true. In the end, it was just she and Susie, just like the first night at the Gaslight. It was alwasy a love story between those two, and it was nice to see it end that way.

Not shattering, maybe not even all that memorable (besides Susie's giant birdcage) but a good, nice, open ending finale, and I'm cool with that. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by whiporee

[maddie965]

I would have to go back and watch to be sure, but isn't Midge's routine on Gordon's show exactly the same one she did on Gaslight in the pilot? I'm sure I heard it all before.

Not too bad for a show that has disappointed me so many times. Decent finale, and a bit of that Maisel-Bruce chemistry to warm my heart.

ETA. Not on the pilot. But at some point in the first season. I'll let you know when I find it.

Edited May 26, 2023 by maddie965

[kwnyc]

"I love the bird. I call her Whore." Little Susie, happy at last.

They could have done this a million different ways, and they chose this one, and I'm fine with it. 

I'm glad Moishe and Shirley are retiring, and glad that they could have an epiphany. In a mink coat and on the floor of a shower.

Totally agree: Gordon Ford is a dick. But it was nice to see how the writers applauded her triumph.

Abe and Rose FINALLY giving Midge some props. And Joel just being happy for her. Nice.

Oh, Lenny. You broke everyone's heart.

"How did you get in here?" "I'm magic."

I know I'll have a lot more Feelings, but this was quite beautiful, and I will miss the hell out of this show.

[LoveLeigh]

I hated the end. I don't know... I am so used to expecting the last episode of a series to go for "phenomenal" that I was disappointed. This final episode will not make any reviewer's list of all time greatest.

It was a let down for me, just another episode as disappointing as the last episode to This Is Us.

[areca]

MIdge's monologue was incredibly boring, failure to launch.  We're supposed to believe this started her career?  The Bob Hope joke was the only funny thing in it.

Edited May 26, 2023 by areca

[reallyjustjen]

Still processing.  Can’t believe it’s over.  I agree with those who weren’t blown away by Midge’s tight 4 (or just under 4, per Shirley’s pocket watch!).   Given that this was what seemingly catapulted Midge into the stratosphere, I expected it to be amazing, and while it had its funny moments, I didn’t think it was Midge’s A game. 

Loved seeing the automat!  

And Midge’s calls to share the news—the look on Joel’s face when he hung up the phone with Midge after hearing that she was going to be on show, and Abe’s as well.  Of course Rose assumed Midge didn’t care to tell her, but getting all the calls and realizing how hard Midge tried to reach her was a nice moment.  

Appreciated the tiny glimpses of Imogene and Mrs. Moskowitz.  

The starting Lenny scene (his last scene in the chronological show universe) was so sad.  As was the extended cut of Midge wandering all alone through her huge, empty home.   It was nice to see that Midge and Suzy reconnected in an apparently meaningful way though.  Suzy being the ecentric bird lady seems about right! 

Thought the fade to black ending was a bit too Soprano-esque and my initial impression was that I didn’t love it.  

[shapeshifter]

So I fell asleep after Jeopardy! this evening and woke up at midnight, got some cheese and crackers, and turned on this finale. 
*Perfect*

 

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I would have found this a lot more impressive if Midge's triumphant routine had actually made me laugh. It didn't.

You and I are a tough crowd, @Blakeston. 
It was good enough, even if we didn't LOL.😉
Do we ever? 
They say a smile triggers endorphins.

 

2 hours ago, whiporee said:

That last clip of her walking through her giant, empty mansion

but did you see all the f'in' framed family photos on the grand piano? 

 

I don't know why, and I don't care, but I flove that Kitty Bruce is credited at the end.

 

I saw it that Gordon Ford wasn't really a dick so much as he was paranoid about falling as far as he'd risen.

 

What was that talk about there being a movie sequel? 

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by shapeshifter

[Quilt Fairy]

3 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

What was that talk about there being a movie sequel? 

I swear I read about it somewhere, nothing specific, just some of the cast discussing the possibility. 

[EtheltoTillie]

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I would have found this a lot more impressive if Midge's triumphant routine had actually made me laugh. It didn't.

Yup, and once again Susie is always funnier than Midge. I’ve noticed it before and wonder if the showrunners even do it on purpose. Susie’s jokes at the very end were funnier than anything Midge said. And Midge laughs. Midge’s monologue was a feminist anthem rather than a comedy spot. Other than that, I didn’t mind the episode. Oh, yeah, now we know it was Susie she was getting the call about at the end of the last episode. 
Don’t get me wrong, I will miss this wonderful show, whatever complaints I’ve ever made. 

[EtheltoTillie]

Oh just looking at more comments for last week, and I forgot to say that it was a great callback to have Carol Burnett as a guest on the Gordon Ford show that night, as she is also one of the funniest women stars ever. Got to look up who played Carol Burnett. 
ETA:  a musical theater actress named Leslie Rodriguez Kritzer. The Palladinos really like musical theater. Notice how many excerpts from original cast albums they’ve used. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by EtheltoTillie

[EtheltoTillie]

Great wrapup to the Lenny story:  we see concerned Midge trying to help Lenny just before his death, then flashback where she looks at the cookie fortune just before going on stage, and then the explanation in the Chinese restaurant, which was also a flashback to last episode of last season. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by EtheltoTillie

[PurpleTentacle]

2 hours ago, LoveLeigh said:

I hated the end. I don't know... I am so used to expecting the last episode of a series to go for "phenomenal" that I was disappointed. This final episode will not make any reviewer's list of all time greatest.

What shows have you been watching and can you recommend some? I expect the ending of shows to suck and most of the time they do.

This was nice. I love that Midge and Susie are friends again. That's pretty much all I wanted from this.

I'm a bit diappointed that Midge isn't back with Joel. I think after all the growing both of them have done, they would be good for each other now. Makes me even wonder if they were back together for a time and he's dead now?

3 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I would have found this a lot more impressive if Midge's triumphant routine had actually made me laugh. It didn't.

I thought it was pretty good. It didn't make me laugh a bunch, but I think that is because we knew most of it already. Those were some of her greatest hits, she put together for a wide audience to hear for the first time.

2 hours ago, reallyjustjen said:

Still processing.  Can’t believe it’s over.  I agree with those who weren’t blown away by Midge’s tight 4 (or just under 4, per Shirley’s pocket watch!).

In reality the show ran for another 10 minutes and her standup was over 7 minutes. That show ran waaaaay long.

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

You and I are a tough crowd, @Blakeston. 
It was good enough, even if we didn't LOL.😉
Do we ever? 
They say a smile triggers endorphins.

I also very rarely laugh out loud. But just today I wanted to rewatch the black lotus SNL sketch. Since I couldn't find it on youtube I put on the whole episode, intending to fast foreward through it, but got stuck on the first sketch. I don't know what it is, but Aubrey Plaza slays me. She is great in serious roles, but that is really a waste of her talents. She is a comedy genious. The rest of the episode was also great.

Recently watched Louis CK's newest comedy special and that got a few smirks, nothing more. Didn't help that about one thrid were recycled jokes from the 80s, that he seemed to think were new and edgy.

Another thing I watched recently, that actually did get a few genuine laughs out of me, was this comedy special by Ashley Gavin:

[LoveLeigh]

6 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

What shows have you been watching and can you recommend some? I expect the ending of shows to suck and most of the time they do.

I loved 1883 and 1923. 

[EtheltoTillie]

I loved that Midge and Susie were just two old yentas watching Jeopardy together at the end.  But it’s never explained whether they got the mob off their backs. 

Ted Lasso is a great show too, @PurpleTentacle Also ending, boo hoo.  

Edited May 26, 2023 by EtheltoTillie

[millennium]

4 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I would have found this a lot more impressive if Midge's triumphant routine had actually made me laugh. It didn't.

The last time I laughed this much was a Che Diaz comedy concert.

 

[EtheltoTillie]

How could I forget to comment on this?  We finally got the full explanation about Susie’s relationship with Hedy. It was so heartfelt and heartbreaking. And then it set up Midge and Susie as the true friends/loves that they would always be for each other. 

[meira.hand]

5 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

9 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I would have found this a lot more impressive if Midge's triumphant routine had actually made me laugh. It didn't.

I thought it was pretty good. It didn't make me laugh a bunch, but I think that is because we knew most of it already. Those were some of her greatest hits, she put together for a wide audience to hear for the first time.

Also this is on TV. not a comedy club, so she couldn't be as edgy as she is at her best. For a TV audience who have never seen her before it was great.

[maggiegil]

I was glad Midge and Suzie patched things up but all in all the finale just left me a little cold. Not terrible but not great. With the Jeopardy thing I was kind of expecting it to finish with Midge being one of the questions

I was surprised Midge didn't sabotage herself somehow with the Gordon Ford thing, we've seen time and time again that Midge is a self saboteur when it comes to her big breaks. Loved her show dress for her set.

I thought they should have had a scene where Suzie apologised to James for telling him to step aside for Midge.

Can anyone explain to me what the point of bringing Milo Ventimiglia back for that scene at the start of the season? I assumed he was a Chekov's gun would in some way feature into the plot later on, it just seemed pointless to have that scene redeeming him.

[txhorns79]

8 hours ago, reallyjustjen said:

Loved seeing the automat!  

I loved that too.  Amazon must really just have given ASP trucks full of money for the huge, detailed sets they built to use for all of a few minutes.

 

17 minutes ago, maggiegil said:

I was surprised Midge didn't sabotage herself somehow with the Gordon Ford thing, we've seen time and time again that Midge is a self saboteur when it comes to her big breaks.

I think that was a way to show us Midge was "ready."  She did take a risk in doing her set when Gordon didn't want her to, but it was a positive risk, as opposed to a negative one.

I'm not sure how I feel about the ending.  Both Susie and Midge have success and each other in the end.  But I kept thinking, is that all there is?  Also, why would you set a gigantic dining room table for twenty or so people, when no one is coming to dinner?   

[DrSpaceman73]

10 hours ago, areca said:

MIdge's monologue was incredibly boring, failure to launch.  We're supposed to believe this started her career?  The Bob Hope joke was the only funny thing in it.

It's completely mediocre comedy. She always has been. That's the hardest part of the show.  Believing her actual comedy just blows people away. 

But as a story I thought this was pretty good. The jumping around all over in the final season wasn't a big fan of.  Before...after....glimpses here and there. 

In the end after all the men and family and everything she ends up in a big house alone. Actually kind of sad. 

Tough seeing Lenny Bruce like that. 

I still think the whole story of her getting on the show was convoluted and unnecessarily complex  But whatever.   They went for narrative and symbolism there instead of practicality. 

[reallyjustjen]

Some of the physical comedy/sight gags were pretty funny, as well.  Susie fighting off and running from the police officers in the park, Moishe and Shirley falling and flailing in the bathroom.  

[DrSpaceman73]

7 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I loved that Midge and Susie were just two old yentas watching Jeopardy together at the end.  But it’s never explained whether they got the mob off their backs. 

Ted Lasso is a great show too, @PurpleTentacle Also ending, boo hoo.  

I have to binge Ted lasso.  Did season one and part of two.  It being on Apple throws me off....only show I watch on there 

Barry and succession both end on Sunday. Some great shows all ending at once 

[SHD]

45 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

It's completely mediocre comedy. She always has been. That's the hardest part of the show.  Believing her actual comedy just blows people away. 

I try to take into account what era she's in, too. I look back at comedians I thought were hilarious in the 70's/80's and when compared to current acts, I sometimes find them pretty lame. So even though her routine didn't make 2023 me laugh, maybe in her era, and when female comedians were rarer, that act was groundbreaking. 

[Suzn]

I've never found Midge funny at all.  Not even close to ever laughing at anything she says.  I've seen the comparison to Joan Rivers and I realized that I never found her funny either.  I think I must be a tough audience.

[EtheltoTillie]

1 hour ago, Suzn said:

I've never found Midge funny at all.  Not even close to ever laughing at anything she says.  I've seen the comparison to Joan Rivers and I realized that I never found her funny either.  I think I must be a tough audience.

Ah, you are tough.  I found the real Joan Rivers to be very funny. 

[AriAu]

Just to be clear.....her "tight 4" went on for 6 minutes and 15 seconds! And, no, while triumphant and a great cap on the series (at least the 1961-62 part of it), it was not really funny. While I know it was supposed to be a transcendent moment of comedy for the character that launches her to superstardom (or at least a gig opening for Tony Bennett on her way to super stardom), I think for purposes of the show, it was supposed to be 1/2 comedy and 1/2 character awareness and feminist commentary...and on that score it succeeded.

I know I am in the minority, but I could have done without the first Lenny Bruce scene-he wasn't patterned after a real person.....he WAS a real person and we know/knew he was a junkie who dies of a drug overdose in 1966 and unless they pulled a Mad Men and re-wrote history (news flash....Don Draper did not "teach the world to sing"),  we knew there was no happy ending for him or for him and Midge. 

While the scenes of Midge in her BIG empty apartment (in the Dakota, no less....we know because of the Yoko reference), were sad and lonely and her need to be booked each night shows that she still craves the affirmation of an audience, the actual ending with Susie and her acting like an old couple (complete with ball busting and intimate knowledge of each other) cracking up over Jeopardy shows that they were the real love story and the true end game.

Other things I loved.

1. Susie loving birds....although clearly a higher quality than the pigeons on her old window sill....did one wink at her???

2. Alex Borstein's Emmy roll reveal of the Hedy story....heartbreaking and brave performance.

3. Midge is really powerful and wealthy if she can keep Blanton's in stock!

4. The way she touched and smiled at the framed picture of her and Joel from their wedding day makes me think they got back together....and that he had passed away by 2005.

5.Given that we got the flash forwards all season, we didn't need to rush and tie up all the loose ends....which let them keep this from feeling rushed and we really did not need to see the actual end of  Rose, Abe, Moishe or Shirley.

6. That being said, there was a lot of filler-didn't need to see Rose and Abe trying to catch a cab and the patter wasn't funny and we didn't need to be reminded, again, that they were clueless.

7. LOVED the other writers curtsying to her!

I'll miss her, but it was a good wrap up......until the Palladino's decide they need to do a tight 90 minute movie in a couple of years!

EDITED TO ADD...

I listened to Amy Sherman Palladino on Marc Maron's podcast WTF and besides being an enjoyable listen, she states that she did NOT decide to end the show....that it came from on high/from Amazon studios due to the high costs of production. Hence my hunch that some day we will get a Midge/Susie reunion movie!

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by AriAu

[EtheltoTillie]

4 minutes ago, AriAu said:

 BIG empty apartment (in the Dakota, no less....we

 

Yes, I caught the Yoko reference, but the building they showed from the outside was not actually the Dakota, it was the Ansonia.  Another grand building a few blocks west but without the celebrity cachet of the Dakota. 

I too hated the cab-hailing scene.  I appreciated how Rose and Abe showed their appreciation for Midge that night at the show. 

 

[bourbon]

It was a little bit of a letdown, but I think they'd painted themselves into a corner.

Once they opened the season with Midge's semi-estranged children, there was nowhere else they could go. This show has always been a Technicolor fantasy of a 1960s NYC that never really existed. Then this season, we got hit in the face with a cold bucket of reality. Of course, there have always been glimpses of that...we knew what was going to happen with Lenny. I know the Shermans wanted to show the consequences of the life Midge chose...but why? Why, when they basically spent 4 seasons creating a fairy tale? 

I had a hunch all along that the framing device of this season would be Midge looking back on her successful career. I just hoped she would be surrounded by children and grandchildren and not walking through her cold and empty palatial apartment in the Dakota. I guess we all define happiness in our own way. I just wish the ending didn't seem like a stern warning...Be careful what you wish for, ladies, you'll end up sad and alone and watching Jeopardy on VHS. Ambition isn't a crime. Maybe you can't have it all. But can't you have more than *that*? 

I didn't hate it. If they were aiming for a downbeat, bittersweet ending, they got it. But I will look at the whole thing through a different lens now.

(And I was totally hoping that since it was a little bit of a fairytale, that this NYC would take place in an alternate universe where Lenny Bruce cleaned up in rehab and lived to be 85.)

Edited May 26, 2023 by bourbon

[shapeshifter]

I wanted to see Midge appear on a '70s game show. Tattle Tales would have been great. But I'll settle for Midge and Susie pushing play at the same moment to watch their VCR'd Jeopardy! shows.

11 minutes ago, AriAu said:

Just to be clear.....her "tight 4" went on for 6 minutes and 15 seconds! And, no, while triumphant and a great cap on the series (at least the 1961-62 part of it), it was not really funny. While I know it was supposed to be a transcendent moment of comedy for the character that launches her to superstardom (or at least a gig opening for Tony Bennett on her way to super stardom), I think for purposes of the show, it was supposed to be 1/2 comedy and 1/2 character awareness and feminist commentary...and on that score it succeeded.

Well put!👏

ITA with all of these points too, @AriAu, and appreciate your outlining them here for us:

15 minutes ago, AriAu said:

Other things I loved.

1. Susie loving birds....although clearly a higher quality than the pigeons on her old window sill....did one wink at her???

2. Alex Borstein's Emmy roll reveal of the Hedy story....heartbreaking and brave performance.

3. Midge is really powerful and wealthy if she can keep Blanton's in stock!

4. The way she touched and smiled at the framed picture of her and Joel from their wedding day makes me think they got back together....and that he had passed away by 2005.

5.Given that we got the flash forwards all season, we didn't need to rush and tie up all the loose ends....which let them keep this from feeling rushed and we really did not need to see the actual end of  Rose, Abe, Moishe or Shirley.

6. That being said, there was a lot of filler-didn't need to see Rose and Abe trying to catch a cab and the patter wasn't funny and we didn't need to be reminded, again, that they were clueless.

7. LOVED the other writers curtsying to her!

...but I disagree slightly about the Lenny Bruce scenes in this episode, that is, if I interpreted them correctly? 
I thought the down-and-out Lenny in his first scene in the finale was the last of him, and I thought it was respectful of who he was and what became of him. Midge in the alley was dressed as she would be, IMO, after her big success.
The second scene (with the fortune cookies) was from earlier, right? — before Midge appeared on the Gordon Ford Show? 

23 minutes ago, AriAu said:

I'll miss her, but it was a good wrap up......until the Palladino's decide they need to do a tight 90 minute movie in a couple of years!

And if there's a movie, please let Midge show up on a game show!

[txhorns79]

28 minutes ago, AriAu said:

 

While the scenes of Midge in her BIG empty apartment (in the Dakota, no less....we know because of the Yoko reference),

Was that supposed to be the Dakota?  The establishing shot they used for the building was not the Dakota.  It looked like the Ansonia.

[DrSpaceman73]

12 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I wanted to see Midge appear on a '70s game show. Tattle Tales would have been great. But I'll settle for Midge and Susie pushing play at the same moment to watch their VCR'd Jeopardy! shows.

Well put!👏

ITA with all of these points too, @AriAu, and appreciate your outlining them here for us:

...but I disagree slightly about the Lenny Bruce scenes in this episode, that is, if I interpreted them correctly? 
I thought the down-and-out Lenny in his first scene in the finale was the last of him, and I thought it was respectful of who he was and what became of him. Midge in the alley was dressed as she would be, IMO, after her big success.
The second scene (with the fortune cookies) was from earlier, right? — before Midge appeared on the Gordon Ford Show? 

And if there's a movie, please let Midge show up on a game show!

Yes the last scene from Lenny and Midge in the Chinese place was 6 months before her appearance on Gordon Ford.  It flashed on the screen before the scene 'six months earlier'

I still think if the final season was going to do flashfowards they could have spent more time on those, or something, and less time with a whole season of her trying to get her spot on Gordon Ford.  

Edited May 26, 2023 by DrSpaceman73

[bybrandy]

I never think Midge was funny and I didn't think Midge was funny here but in the same way I never find stand up funny (and I also didn't find Joan Rivers funny so it might be me) but I do think I bought it as something the audience was enjoying and that would get her seen by somebody.  I don't think this was supposed to be a literally overnight phenomenon thing but the launching of the thing that got her her next gig and the next and the next and superstar.   And I buy that.

I loved the end with Midge and Suzie.   Theirs was a lifetime relationship and it felt right them being there for each other like this.  Honestly watching jeopardy on the phone with my bestie is pretty much my ideal retirement.  And honestly more than I hoped for for Suzie who clearly retired and is content enough to not want to be back in the game.  

Midge does seem lonely in her giant home with nobody there eating alone in the kitchen but she clearly still loves to perform and honestly she may be more content than she seems because a younger Midge would be there with the cooks and the housekeepers trying to get them involved and being Midge at them.   Midge certainly has enough money to have all kinds of people be entertained by her at the snap of a finger.  She can have the staff being her entertainment.   She is choosing to be quiet for the first time in the literal entire time we've known her which might indicate that she is more contented than the setting would indicate.  

 

[EtheltoTillie]

26 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

Was that supposed to be the Dakota?  The establishing shot they used for the building was not the Dakota.  It looked like the Ansonia.

Yes, I just posted that too!  I think it was supposed to be the Dakota, but they felt uncomfortable about using the real building. 

[bybrandy]

As a non New Yorker I absolutely knew Yoko meant Midge was living at The Dakota and I'd have recognized The Dakota if I saw it because I've been to New York and seen The Dakota.  But I didn't pay any attention at all to the establishing shot but I rarely do.

[Carolina Girl]

1 hour ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Yes, I caught the Yoko reference, but the building they showed from the outside was not actually the Dakota, it was the Ansonia

Okay - so I'm not the only one that thought "that ain't the Dakota."

Notice also when Susie visits Lenny backstage, she offers representation, citing that her stable includes Dick Gregory and Phyllis Diller.  Diller by 1965 was a MAJOR comedy star and Gregory was very well known.  So in the four years since the breakthrough appearance on Gordon's show, Susie becomes a real powerhouse in the agency biz.  

[whiporee]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

The second scene (with the fortune cookies) was from earlier, right? — before Midge appeared on the Gordon Ford Show? 

1 hour ago, AriAu said:

That was supposed to be right after Midge and Lenny went blue in the blue room, before he actually tried to line up Tony Bennett for her and before his Carnegie Hall set. They were in the afterglow. If you think of that scene as canon, that's why he was so upset with her about the Bennett thing -- he had done a nice thing, he knew her talent and had complimented her, but then she went back and pissed away an opportunity. 

[shapeshifter]

When Gordon covers the microphone to tell Midge “You’re fired” [as a writer] was that to imply that the No Writers Can Appear On The Show rule was still standing? And, if so, was it more of a superstition that The Rule had the power to make or break the show more than anything else?

[MerBearHou]

11 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

When Gordon covers the microphone to tell Midge “You’re fired” [as a writer] was that to imply that the No Writers Can Appear On The Show rule was still standing? And, if so, was it more of a superstition that The Rule had the power to make or break the show more than anything else?

I could be very wrong, but my initial reaction to that "you're fired" was Gordon forcing Midge out of the nest / writer's room.  She didn't seem upset when he fired her -- it was kind of a knowing look like "I know, I've got to make something out of this moment and move on".  

Edited May 26, 2023 by MerBearHou

[EtheltoTillie]

Here's a clip of the real Carol Burnett doing that song.  Fabulous.

 

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, MerBearHou said:

I could be very wrong, but my initial reaction to that "you're fired" was Gordon forcing Midge out of the nest / writer's room.  She didn't seem upset when he fired her -- it was kind of a knowing look like "I know, I've got to make something out of this moment and move on".  

I thought it was more because she hijacked his show for her act, but he smiled because he knew she was going off to much bigger things anyways.

[retrograde]

I have never found Midge's comedy to be laugh-out-loud funny, but I've always been able to handwave that -- standup from decades past is rarely laugh-out-loud funny to me because stuff that was fresh and shocking then is by definition not now. I can buy that her act wowed 1950s/60s crowds, even though it doesn't in 2023. 

I didn't love all the flash-forwards sprinkled throughout this season, because they took me out of the main story and robbed it of some mystery and magic. I didn't object to finding out what happened to everyone, I just wish it had all been contained in the last or second-last episode.

That said, I did like the very last scene with older Midge and Susie just bantering. Witty repartee is what ASP does well, and I thought the scene was a a fine example of the form -- their relationship felt lived-in and real. 

FWIW the Palladinos say Midge's building was neither the Dakota nor the Ansonia but a "fictional Manhattan."

Edited May 26, 2023 by retrograde

[Blakeston]

For comparison's sake, this is a video of Joan Rivers doing standup in the 1960s:

This made me laugh out loud at several points, whereas Midge's routines mostly just make think "eh, I guess that was kind of clever." Part of it is Joan's delivery. She's clearly amused by what she's saying, and it makes it a lot easier to laugh along with her, IMO. Midge's style is much more sour, and that's harder to wring laughs from.

 

[Oosala]

On 5/25/2023 at 8:52 PM, kwnyc said:

Oh, Lenny. You broke everyone's heart.

That opening scene was a tragedy, in its most fundamental form.  Everyone knows the inevitable nature of the Lenny Bruce story, but to have to see it happening on the screen to an actor I really fell in love with -- yes, it broke my heart.  That's why I was so happy for Lenny's second appearance, where he's still relatively healthy and had just spent that wild night with Midge.  *chef's kiss*

On 5/25/2023 at 11:47 PM, PurpleTentacle said:

What shows have you been watching and can you recommend some? I expect the ending of shows to suck and most of the time they do.

If you're looking for fantastic series-ending episodes, I strongly suggest watching Six Feet Under.  In my book, that finale was, bar none, the best one out there.  And I really enjoyed that show.  It was back in the days when Netflix sent you a DVD in the mail, and my then-husband and I really loved it when the new discs arrived.  I must warn potential viewers, however, that some content on this show would be rated R+ or X-.  Proceed with caution.

On 5/26/2023 at 6:26 AM, txhorns79 said:

On 5/25/2023 at 9:27 PM, reallyjustjen said:

Loved seeing the automat!  

I loved that too.  Amazon must really just have given ASP trucks full of money for the huge, detailed sets they built to use for all of a few minutes.

Strongly agree.  I loved seeing that, too.

23 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

When Gordon covers the microphone to tell Midge “You’re fired” [as a writer] was that to imply that the No Writers Can Appear On The Show rule was still standing?

After Gordon fired her, I half expected Midge to say, "Thank you!"

Edited May 27, 2023 by Oosala

[EtheltoTillie]

Talk about boatloads of money, they obviously spent a ridiculous amount of money on that awful taxi traffic scene, according to that article posted above by @retrograde.

Big nitpick about that article, they were talking about filming on Central Park East, a street that doesn't exist.  It was Central Park West.  Fifth Avenue is "Central Park East" geographically.  But they weren't talking about fictional New York in that discussion, they were talking about the logistics of filming on a real street.  😜

[SnapHappy]

I'm satisfied.  They couldn't cram in everything that everybody would want, but I liked the quiet ending.  2 best friends on separate coasts spending the evening together. 

According to vintage movies & shows, mega-rich people with mansions always have their formal dining rooms set, just in case an impromptu dinner party is laid on.  Seeing that didn't surprise me. Or all the rooms done up in high style.  Very Midge to have her home perfectly and immaculately turned out.

I loved the long white hair, caftan and gold lame Dansko clogs on Suzie.  SO perfect for her later years.  And her continuing bird love was great. 

Can I say the makeup on those two was superb?  When Suzie was lying on her couch, you could see the age spots on her hands & arm that Alex Borstein definitely doesn't have.  And Midge moved like a woman in her 70's.  Really well done. 

Lenny just broke my heart, but I'm still in love with Luke.  

And I also think Gordon's "You're Fired" was his version of "Ok kid, you've got the chops...Go hit the big time".