S04.E06: Living+

[Chicago Redshirt]

7 hours ago, MBayGal said:

But this is HBO. They don't have the restraints of non-cable shows.  And did "Maude" have an abortion?  It was decades ago, so I'm not sure.

ETA: Yes, in 1972, the 47-y-o character Maude chose to have an abortion.  If Norman Lear could do it in 1972 on CBS, Jesse Armstrong can do it on HBO in 2023. 

Can they have something on HBO involving abortion? Sure.

Has HBO ever had a main character actually have an abortion? Dunno. The best I can think of off the top of my head is on House of the Dragon, Rhaenera drank moon tea when she was thought to have slept with Daemon as a teen. I came across a site that lists abortion references in pop culture, and most of what it seems to have where main characters actually had abortions were Shonda Rhimes and the CW/the WB. I think I saw a reference to a side character on Girls saying that she couldn't go for a run because she just had an abortion. 

https://pennylaneismyrealname.com/a-timeline-of-abortion-stories-in-us-popular-media/

I don't think there are actual restraints on networks or showrunners preventing them from doing abortion storylines as commonly as they do, say. storylines about any number of subjects.

[DrSpaceman73]

The link skipped probably the most famous one in godfather II

'I didnt want to bring another of your sons into this world! It was an abortion michael! '

 

[cmfran]

I've been wondering if we'll ever see Kendall's ex-wife and kids again. 

[chaifan]

19 hours ago, MBayGal said:

or, option 3:  she has an abortion. To me,  that is the most realistic, least soap-operaish decision for Shiv.  

I don't think Shiv will have an abortion.  In the earlier episode when she was talking to her doctor, they had to run an extra test due to her blood test.  People who don't want to be pregnant don't usually run extra tests.  We've seen nothing to indicate Shiv doesn't want a baby, or this baby in particular.  Yeah, her life is a mess, dead dad and looming divorce (maybe?), but neither of those would impact her ability to raise a child. 

[absnow54]

2 minutes ago, cmfran said:

I've been wondering if we'll ever see Kendall's ex-wife and kids again. 

Spoiler

Kendall's wife appears in some of the trailers this season, so we'll most likely see her.

 

[rhygirl720]

Mattson looked a little psychotic, walking barefoot and crazy eyed talking to Shiv. I can actually believe this Mattson did send blood.

Shiv is actively working against her brothers. While the bros are clueless and neglectful this is a huge betrayal.

So, after being hit the head with an anvil on Ken's baptism/ rebirth and Roman's complete spiral. On to Shiv and Tom.

Their relationship dynamic is interesting but wasn't healthy. I think Shiv actually does love Tom. Now her version of love based on her history is never going to be great without a lot of therapy and maybe even not then.  I think Shiv thought Tom actually loved her too. Thinking back on their portrayed history she treated him with disdain, and he allowed it. I think Shiv thought that was out of love, but it wasn't it was and is self-preservation and promotion and it always has been.  Tom's betrayal proved that. Tom's admission confirmed it. Tom would not be with Shiv if the situation were reversed. Now the two of them can restart based on honesty. 

Compare this relationship with Willa and Conner, whose relationship is completely transactional. Both seem to accept and are happy with the arrangement. 

Edited May 2, 2023 by rhygirl720

[iMonrey]

Quote

I don't think I could come up with five examples of all my TV watching where a main character actually had an abortion simply because she did not want a pregnancy on my own. Googling came up with a few that I might have seen but had no memory of -- Cristina Yang from Grey's Anatomy, Olivia Pope from Scandal, Jane's mom from Jane the Virgin, and Paula from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. 

Fiona on Shameless.

[laurakaye]

On 5/1/2023 at 12:29 AM, Penman61 said:

I know the cliché says “There’s no right way to grieve,” but of the kids, Shiv’s setting aside crying time appointments strikes me as WAY less unhealthy than Roman and Kendall’s weird avoidance and bro-ey “humor” about their loss.

This reminds me of scenes from my all-time favorite movie "Broadcast News" where Holly Hunter plays a reporter who schedules time to cry due to her stressful job.  I wondered if Jesse Armstrong picked that up from her movie.

On 5/1/2023 at 12:35 AM, gorgy said:

P.S. I also played the bitey game as a child

As a child.

So you come in for the investors meeting and see two grown adults locked in a pose of biting the other's forearm while making intense eye contact, and one of them is the boss's daughter and the other one runs ATM....I guess you just do a double-take and slowly walk away?  

But I can 100% believe that Shiv played the bitey game as a child, mostly with Roman, and she probably always won.

 

On 5/1/2023 at 12:58 AM, nb360 said:

I was worried about Kendall but I'm glad he got through the presentation without a serious meltdown.

When he started with "Big shoes.  Big shoes......Big. Shoes.  Big shoes," I cringed so hard I pulled a muscle.  Kendall does have a way of swinging back around when it comes to this kind of thing.  It's interesting to watch his normal mania calm itself enough to produce a coherent speech when he needs to.

 

On 5/1/2023 at 1:24 AM, Marley said:

Kendall seems to be extra amped. What new drugs is he on lol.

He was shown a few times chugging from what I assume was an energy drink, although who knows what was in it.

 

On 5/1/2023 at 9:54 AM, chaifan said:

I would love to see the actual scripts for his show.  Do writers actually write out all that word salad that Roman and Kendall keep spewing at each other, or is there just a vague direction to ad lib this type of stuff using as many BS business catch phrases as possible?  I don't think there was a single, coherent complete sentence uttered by either one of them this whole episode.  

It's like Kendall saying "it's time to supercharge the watermelon, we're going all tomato sauce on the timeline and trashing their bowties over the profits, are you with me?"  And Roman is all, "uhhh, yeah, but no, I mean sure but you know, it's just all, whatever."  A little of that goes a long way, so it's frustrating when it becomes such a large portion of their dialog.

Something that Matthew does so well as Tom...Tom and Shiv are laughing on the bed about living in a trailer together, would Shiv follow him, etc., and they both end up laughing at each other but Tom's eyes are about the saddest I've ever seen.

And the scene with Roman and Gerri was so intense, I forgot to breathe. Roman is going to crash hard, maybe the hardest of anyone.
 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by laurakaye

[BeckyThatcher]

On 5/1/2023 at 10:30 AM, TexasGal said:

I didn’t understand why Mattson was so fixated on not wanting real estate.  Buying property and building whatever the “land cruises” are supposed to be will take a while. 

It’s not the real estate, but the stock values that is Mattson’s concern. Mattson understands that this announcement will drive up the stock price, raising the valuation above his offer.

If Kendall had failed in the presentation, no matter, but as Mattson watched the positive tweet response he knew the valuation would rise. This would void his current purchase proposal as the board would expect a higher purchase proposal. This is part of Kendall and Roman’s “let’s tank the deal” plan prior to the presentation.
 

(Mattson originally said he wanted Waystar for the massive data/content library for his streaming service GoJo. His current motivations have changed.)

Caveat: Literature major here who only passed Calculus by crying to the professor. All my phaux business knowledge is thanks to hours of television.

 

 

[MBayGal]

2 hours ago, chaifan said:

We've seen nothing to indicate Shiv doesn't want a baby, or this baby in particular. 

We have never seen any indication she wants a child either.  Although maybe since her mom told her she was not cut out to be a mother, she might want to have a child just to spite her. We shall see!

[Jordan Baker]

12 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

And the scene with Roman and Gerri was so intense, I forgot to breathe. Roman is going to crash hard, maybe the hardest of anyone.

In the Succession podcast, J. Cameron-Smith talks about doing multiple takes of this scene, with some improvisations, such as Gerri throwing a water bottle. She said as they did subsequent scenes, it "got uglier and uglier' and felt dangerous.

The scene was probably the highlight of the episode for me, and hearing her talk about it was fascinating.

[Penman61]

Re Gerri & Roman's fight: Why isn't Gerri using Roman's having sent her unsolicited dick pics as her trump card? Or has that card been played already, since Logan already found out (Roman's stupid mis-texting) and is now dead anyway?

Seems to me a headline like "New Waystar co-CEO Sent Dick Pics to Highest Ranking Woman" would still have some potency (!) as a threat.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Penman61

[Athena5217]

1 minute ago, Penman61 said:

Re Gerri & Roman's fight: Why isn't Gerri using Roman's having sent her unsolicited dick pics as her trump card? Or has that card been played already, since Logan already found out (Roman's stupid mis-texting) and is now dead anyway?

Seems to me a headline like "New Waystar co-CEO Sent Dick Pics to Highest Ranking Woman" would still have some potency (!) as a threat.

I don’t remember if Gerri was asked to sign an NDA in exchange for something last season, but that would make sense. I think Gerri would be smart enough to leverage it without asking for so much that Logan would tell her to f— off.

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

We have never seen any indication she wants a child either.  Although maybe since her mom told her she was not cut out to be a mother, she might want to have a child just to spite her. We shall see!

Weren't she and Tom actively trying at one point? I thought his goal was to impregnate her before going to jail for the cruise stuff. But maybe that was his plan and she wasn't on board. 

[Penman61]

16 minutes ago, Athena5217 said:

I don’t remember if Gerri was asked to sign an NDA in exchange for something last season, but that would make sense. I think Gerri would be smart enough to leverage it without asking for so much that Logan would tell her to f— off.

That's what I was wondering: If I had forgotten some plot point that rendered the dick pics impotent (sorry, again; I blame the writers' strike). Gerri seemed so genuinely (and uncharacteristically) upset in that confrontation that I really thought she'd use anything to fight back.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Penman61

[realityplease]

I think all the mm-hmmms, and yeahs & okaaays are specifically written into the scripts - to show the sibs mimicking Logan's style, whether consciously or unconsciously.  Logan used all of these strategically as placeholders when he listened to others - saying virtually nothing or just these, while getting the other side to fill in the silence & reveal more about their positions - while keeping his own position close to the vest.  Helped him gather opinions, take it all in, think.  And then act or pounce - all without revealing his thoughts, tipping off his opponent, or giving advance notice. 

The sibs just don't seem to be able to use these placeholders as judiciously.  Or after they get the info or a reveal of other's motivations - act out more rashly & less strategically.  They're trying to be Logan by mimicking this - but just not quite Logan - for reasons unique to each of them.

As for Waystar = Disney.  Disney has plans for a huge community in Rancho Mirage, CA with a portion going toward seniors.  Different housing plans touting access to the highly rated Eisenhower medical facility & many on-site amenities, some Disney themed.  This notion isn't exciting or futuristic enough to techie Mattson & the Gregs of the world - but big corporate entities looking to entice & grab senior dollars are looking at housing projects in areas where the land costs make them feasible.

[laurakaye]

2 hours ago, Jordan Baker said:

In the Succession podcast, J. Cameron-Smith talks about doing multiple takes of this scene, with some improvisations, such as Gerri throwing a water bottle. She said as they did subsequent scenes, it "got uglier and uglier' and felt dangerous.

I typically watch every episode at least twice, then listen to three different Succession podcasts, lol.  I have never been this invested in a show.  

Kendall standing in the auditorium demanding that the staff construct an entire house onstage (plus clouds) and refusing to take no for an answer - while making them all repeat, "Yes, Kendall" -  was uncomfortable to watch.  Then he sees the clouds in action and gets the most defeated look on his face, like someone just knocked his ice cream cone to the ground.  It was so odd.

I contrast that with Greg, who has been tasked to make brand-new words come out of Logan's mouth and stumbles into the editing room, also demands the impossible, stutters a pathetic insult, raises his voice and also gets what he wants.  It's no wonder the director of Kalispitron had a nervous breakdown if he/she had to deal with any of these people.  

There's something about Kendall and Greg that has me actually wondering if Greg is going to come out on top - otherwise there's no need for him to be the same stammering goofball he's been since episode one, except now he has a better haircut and nicer suits.

Edited May 2, 2023 by laurakaye

[Penman61]

Since the Roy children are so variously and manifestly unqualified to run a global corporation, I can see why viewers offer up a "Why not Greg?" outcome, with him the one who ends up on top. After all, could Greg be worse than these foundering fail-sons and -daughter?

Well, yes. By orders of magnitude. For me, Greg ending up as Waystar CEO wouldn't be some biting, ironic twist ending; it would strain more credulity than Bran being chosen in GoT. It would yank me out of the show and retrospectively lower my opinion of it overall (just as the Bran decision did for GoT), because Greg is so, so obviously and comically not equipped to decide anything of any importance ever. I know less show time has passed than our real time, but whether it's been a year or four, Greg has shown NO growth at all, except perhaps in intermittently aping Roy family dickishness, and even that seems fake with him--plus he's bad at it! And that's definitely not enough to make me--or a fictitious board of directors--think he can run it all.

Nope, not Greg, not ever. 

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Penman61

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, BeckyThatcher said:

It’s not the real estate, but the stock values that is Mattson’s concern. Mattson understands that this announcement will drive up the stock price, raising the valuation above his offer.

If Kendall had failed in the presentation, no matter, but as Mattson watched the positive tweet response he knew the valuation would rise. This would void his current purchase proposal as the board would expect a higher purchase proposal. This is part of Kendall and Roman’s “let’s tank the deal” plan prior to the presentation.
 

(Mattson originally said he wanted Waystar for the massive data/content library for his streaming service GoJo. His current motivations have changed.)

Caveat: Literature major here who only passed Calculus by crying to the professor. All my phaux business knowledge is thanks to hours of television.

 

 

I can't see Living+ realistically boosting the overall stock price so much as to tank the deal. 

Even assuming Matsson doesn't see through it as the vaporware it so obviously (to me, anyway) is, the semi-positive reception at investor day is a long ways from being able to say OK, so 192 isn't enough, we need 250 (or whatever might be a deal-breaker).

I am taking Matsson on face value here that he thinks that a project tied to real estate/residential community and some nebulous virtual presence for seniors is not going to perform well.

[Blackie]

3 hours ago, laurakaye said:

So you come in for the investors meeting and see two grown adults locked in a pose of biting the other's forearm while making intense eye contact, and one of them is the boss's daughter and the other one runs ATM....I guess you just do a double-take and slowly walk away

 

that is exactly what I thought!

[amarante]

On 5/1/2023 at 6:24 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Add me into the group of folks who thought this episode was a swing and a miss.

I get that the CE-bros still want to tank the deal, but why? (Other than, because if they don't, we would have to fast-forward to the last episode)

Is it just me, or is Living+ a terrible idea inherently, or is it just a bad pitch by Kendall? I don't get how it has anything to do with trying to leave a presence when you're gone or whatever. I think maybe a more interesting direction might have been dealing with Logan and his social media presence. Does he have a social media presence? I would think so.

 

I thought the issue was that it is just real estate and doesn't have anything "tech" or modern about it.

They can spin it like WeWork attempted to do but in the end it is just real estate.

And the concept isn't even particularly new. There are loads of very expensive "retirement" places where you enter as a "young senior" and then graduate to a luxurious "nursing" facility or memory care section for dementia.

This one in Manhattan is about $20,000 per month. 

Residents at The Apsley have access to a variety of luxury amenities and services including a wellness suite, art studio, theater, and fitness gym. In addition, the community takes advantage of technology by offering wearable tech and Alexa tech, in addition to SunriseConnect services.

[realityplease]

Count me among those who do NOT think Greg will Forrest Gump his way to the top of Waystar.  He's just a Greek chorus to state an obvious point (selling homes is nothing new), to absorb a negative comment (e.g., being "visually aggravating" or "two meters of nepotism"), to bounce a joke off or be the butt of a joke, or do dirty work (telling Kerri her audition tape didn't pass muster, telling Snippy-snip to make AI changes, or destroying files.)

Sure we all know goofs who got far beyond where we expected them to land - but not to work independently at the TOP of a complex operation like Waystar Royco.  He hasn't got sufficient training, expertise or gravitas. Sure, he's the type to ride someone else's coat-tails as far as it will take him, and so far, so good, but he basically, takes orders. As evidenced in this episode as in prior episodes. I don't see him getting the top job.  

Hopefully, after Bran was palmed off on the audience in GOT - to much audience disapproval - it was noted.  At least Bran had some special powers. There's nothing special about Greg.

Edited May 2, 2023 by realityplease

[MBayGal]

A scenario that I have been considering is Shiv and Tom taking over together.  Tom knows the business end of things; Shiv doesn't know the workings of the business but is smart, and has dealt effectively with the world outside the Waystar bubble.  Kendall is so unfocused, and Roman seems on the verge of a breakdown.  Shiv and Tom could be a power couple, despite their toxic relationship.  

[maddie965]

I kind of hated this episode. All that harassment and stupidity and Musk-like behavior makes me sick to my stomach. Too close to hone, I guess.

For me, the only good parts are the Tom and Shiv scenes. I think she's beginning to see him as an equal. Hope she realizes they are a perfect fit. And maybe that will bring her closer to being a normal human being, and not a sociopath like her brothers. The real grief she's feeling might help too.

Roman should be in a mental facility treating his many issues, and Kendall should never be allowed to run a business ever again. And this show should have ended with Logan's death. Nothing will ever top that episode, and the aftermath pales in comparison.

Edited May 3, 2023 by maddie965

[Macbeth1966]

I am not one who thinks Kendall hit it out of the park.  Granted he was no longer talking gibberish on his coke-propelled energy as he was for most of the hour.

Yes he was coherent.  And discuss the appeal of Living plus. However he completely lied about the numbers to the investors and to the public.  He was the driving force for that bs.

Coherent isn't hitting it out of the park.  It is the very least you would expect from leadership.

[laurakaye]

2 hours ago, maddie965 said:

Roman should be in a mental facility treating his many issues

I both want to get more of Roman's backstory and at the same time, maybe we don't need to know any more.  We know he was locked in a dog cage as a kid - for fun and games?  Not according to Roman, but his siblings tell him he wanted it.  He seems to thrive on being told he's worthless, from Gerri and from his father in real life and via an edited joke voicemail sent to him from Kendall.  Just below the surface is a really messed-up person.  Of the four siblings, he seems the most primed for a major breakdown.

[chaifan]

Chiming in on the "Greg takes it all" theories... 

First, just how god awful would that be?  Both from a show/plot standpoint and a viewer standpoint.  As a viewer, if that's where we ended up after 4 seasons of an outstanding show, I would be pissed.  Probably even angrier than I was at the shitshow of an ending that they gave Lost, simply because I was hate-watching that show for the last 2 seasons and mostly gave up caring what they did because it was all so stupid. 

From the show/plot standpoint, it just doesn't fit.  They had the opportunity to make Greg into an evil not-so-genius when he first copied and kept the harassment documents.  But then they went nowhere with it, and kept him as the bumbling oaf/lackey/fall guy.  They've been pretty decent about sticking to reality of business dealings, corporate takeovers, shareholder power, etc.  As someone pointed out above, Ewan's shares won't be enough to get Greg the votes.  There's no reason for any other board member to vote for Greg.  And even if Ewan had the shares, why in the world would he put Greg in that position?  He, more than anyone, knows what an ignorant fuck up Greg is.  Ewan doesn't want to see the value of his shares tank the minute Greg takes over. 

Absent a "Designated Survivor" type of incident 45 minutes into the last episode, in which every other character we've seen on screen or heard about dies all at once, I don't see any way for Greg to be the "Successor" of Succession.

 

[Pestilentia]

Quote

Throughout the series, Tom has been willing to kiss any ass that was in power, until it was decided that Shiv would be Logan's successor. Now he actually seems to respect her as a player.

   

 

IMO the only thing Tom respects is power. 
When it dawned on him that he had literally backed a dying horse he panicked and decided to go try to glom back onto Shiv. If anyone at all had even looked at him he'd have glommed onto them- he would attach himself to anyone he thought might benefit him.
He doesn't love Shiv, she's just his best and last chance. He's terrified- if Gerri had said "Come sit by me"  he'd have glommed onto her, if Frank and Karl opened up their little man club to him he'd have jumped right in. Tom is a follower and he'll always be orbiting someone else, he'll never even be central to his own life.

All of these children have based their entire existence on reacting to their father- none of them have shown the least bit of agency other than Shiv working in politics before the show started, and even that was her reacting to her father. They are all simply scared little children bouncing between acting out for attention and sucking up for what they thought was love. They've done it for so long that they don't even understand the difference- they haven't a clue how to be authentic people.

I think the only true "succession"  any of them need is more a ecological type "succession"  to a new land/field of endeavor. One of them needs to step up as a "pioneer species" within the Roy clan and strike out into new territory involving ethics and honesty and sensitivity to the people that they presume to love. Our current "Roy family"  is a “climax community” and it's time for a cleansing forest fire and a reboot if you ask me.

THAT would be the only "succession" that would be of benefit to anyone. If they all keep walking the same path they're gonna end up bums on the street. None of the three of them are competent in any field whatsoever unless you can make a living whining and being entitled. They don't even know what loyalty or having each other's backs even means- I think they are all three doomed and I think it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch, we reap what we sow.  

What I don't think is that the end of this is going to tie up in a neat little bow and an official "Successor"  chosen. I think the title itself is a giant misdirection and we're all missing the point somehow, and after all the sound and fury of these four seasons I think the end will be surprisingly "meh." Because nothing will make any of these three happy- they're  doomed because they have never learned how to be happy. They've never been around happy people that  are content- they have an inherent happiness void like a missing gene. 

I don't think Greg is or has been anything other than a bit of comedic interlude- IMO he's a red herring that will never amount to anything.

[TexasGal]

1 hour ago, Macbeth1966 said:

I am not one who thinks Kendall hit it out of the park.  Granted he was no longer talking gibberish on his coke-propelled energy as he was for most of the hour.

Yes he was coherent.  And discuss the appeal of Living plus. However he completely lied about the numbers to the investors and to the public.  He was the driving force for that bs.

Coherent isn't hitting it out of the park.  It is the very least you would expect from leadership.

I agree with this.  Opening yourself up to potential SEC investigation for lying about expected performance isn't great.  And I couldn't stop thinking about how much company money was wasted trying to build a house and create clouds overnight for him to just say "nah not good enough" and not get used.

But, maybe the show is leaning into being a commentary about how ridiculous big business can be?  I could see it happening for real that such a mediocre empty performance could temporarily spike share prices.  I am a corporate attorney and early in my career worked on some IPOs where I was like, wait - what does this company actually DO?  what do they OWN?  how MUCH are they asking per share?  Craziness.

[marny]

Greg is around because the audience enjoyed him and thought he was funny during the first and second seasons. We all know it makes no sense for him to be present at all the things he attends, but he's a fan fave, so there he is. When characters are literally saying "Why are you here?" and there's no logical answer, then that's your answer. None of the larger shareholders would think he's a good choice for CEO and the other shareholders wouldn't even know who he is. If the show ends with him as the CEO, it would be nothing more than a Curb Your Enthusiasm-style punchline and the show would lose its credibility IMO.

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, marny said:

Greg is around because the audience enjoyed him and thought he was funny during the first and second seasons. We all know it makes no sense for him to be present at all the things he attends, but he's a fan fave, so there he is. When characters are literally saying "Why are you here?" and there's no logical answer, then that's your answer. None of the larger shareholders would think he's a good choice for CEO and the other shareholders wouldn't even know who he is. If the show ends with him as the CEO, it would be nothing more than a Curb Your Enthusiasm-style punchline and the show would lose its credibility IMO.

I think it does make sense that he's there for the very reason they always say--he's a cousin and family is central to everything for these people, even if there's an obvious hierarchy to that family. That's why Greg had good reason to think he could ask for a job in the first place--and why Tom has the important position he has. 

On the question of him winding up with anything, much less everything, I'm not even sure what that would mean. This isn't Game of Thrones where somebody's going to either inherit or win the throne by blood. Of course Greg isn't being considered for any sort of leadership position, but it's perfectly believable, imo, that these people would take turns bringing him along to things as a lackey with less power than they have that they can order around while still feeling safe. Matsson laughed at the idea of "everybody being related" and them being like the Hapsbergs, but it was funny because it's true, just as it's true for the Pierces.

[laurakaye]

14 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Matsson laughed at the idea of "everybody being related" and them being like the Hapsbergs, but it was funny because it's true, just as it's true for the Pierces.

Very true - heaven knows, Nan Pierce had her share of odd family members hanging around her all the time.  No wonder she had migraines.

Greg has been a consistent goofball but still, he knows where some of the bodies are buried.  I was never fully comfortable with the way he kept ingratiating himself into the family like he was a real player.  Did he even have a title or an actual position at WayStar other than to follow Tom around to do his evil bidding, or to babysit Kendall?

 

[Moxie Cat]

On 5/2/2023 at 9:11 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Has HBO ever had a main character actually have an abortion?

Claire on Six Feet Under and Anna Chlumsky's character on Veep.

And of course, both Degrassi series showed main characters having abortions, although they were censored (in different ways) on their respective US networks.

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, Moxie Cat said:

And of course, both Degrassi series showed main characters having abortions, although they were censored (in different ways) on their respective US networks.

Better Things if FX. Max had an abortion on that show. Also on Dear White People, which is Netflix.

I don't think Succession would be afraid to go there, so I hope it'll be interesting when we find out exactly what Shiv's thinking here. She started the show planning to work through her husband, so old-fashioned sexist politics isn't out of the question.

[Dminches]

On 5/2/2023 at 12:58 PM, Penman61 said:

Re Gerri & Roman's fight: Why isn't Gerri using Roman's having sent her unsolicited dick pics as her trump card? Or has that card been played already, since Logan already found out (Roman's stupid mis-texting) and is now dead anyway?

Seems to me a headline like "New Waystar co-CEO Sent Dick Pics to Highest Ranking Woman" would still have some potency (!) as a threat.

It is in Gerri's best interest that Waystar stock stay high since I am sure a lot of her compensation is in the form of Waystar stock. To expose the pictures and take a chance that the stock price would drop is not a good idea. Her stock value is worth way more than a year's cash compensation.  Plus, once Mattson owns the company he can rehire her if he wants to.

 

[BlackberryJam]

 

Moved to the Spec thread.

Edited May 4, 2023 by BlackberryJam

[hatchetgirl]

On 4/30/2023 at 8:03 PM, Athena5217 said:

I’m surprised no one on the show said using a dead guy to sell “Living Plus” is a bad idea.

Let's face it - Kendall didn't exactly give ANYONE the option to say anything about it, which is why everyone was so dang shocked to see that video!  I died laughing though because Logan would have been spitting mad!!!  Mwahahahaha - keep it up Crazy Kendall!

[Dianaofthehunt]

All the male characters in this series should be shackled together and bayoneted in the ‘nads.

 

[hatchetgirl]

On 5/1/2023 at 10:12 AM, absnow54 said:

I feel like in this instance, Logan or his estate are the only ones who could sue over it. Kendall had the finance guy running the numbers, and he said they could make an argument for the claim. 

Nope - the shareholders are the ones who are going to be screwed by that video.  The numbers guy saying "Kendall, numbers are numbers..." was his way of saving himself.  Kendall is playing fast and lose with the numbers and he'll get slammed by shareholders or Mattson if he does end up buying.

[endure]

On 5/1/2023 at 6:48 AM, cardigirl said:

As much as I would like to believe that Shiv is allowing herself to soften toward Tom, I'm wondering if that isn't a part of her strategy. Bring him close to destroy him more completely.

Shiv is up to something ...

 

I was thinking she might be considering reconciliation not wanting to be a single parent.

[maddie965]

I think not wanting to be a single parent is a big part of it, but not the whole story. The grief she's experiencing after losing Logan is messing with her emotions. We saw her turning to Tom for support a number of times, and he was always there. And no, I don't think he was faking it. He really cares about Shiv, always did, until she destroyed him with that conversation on the beach.

Anyway, I'm being incredibly optimistic here and hoping they can find a way to have true companionship together. Not sure Shiv is capable of feeling true love. But, with Tom, she might have a chance.

I fear for that baby though. Right now, I can't imagine Shiv being a mother or caring about anyone but herself. Let's see if the writers can give her some real feelings, for a change. The scheduled grief was a good start.

[Milburn Stone]

14 minutes ago, maddie965 said:

I think not wanting to be a single parent is a big part of it, but not the whole story. The grief she's experiencing after losing Logan is messing with her emotions. We saw her turning to Tom for support a number of times, and he was always there. And no, I don't think he was faking it. He really cares about Shiv, always did, until she destroyed him with that conversation on the beach.

I feel the same way about Tom. Everything else about him is slimy and kiss-ass and always "looking for the angle," but as regards Shiv, he's honest. I felt that way in the "wake" episode. Some here thought he was attempting to play her even then, but I didn't. I thought his love and concern for her in that scene on the stairs was real.

 

[jeansheridan]

On 5/1/2023 at 9:22 AM, Lassus said:

The point was, the rich always have access to better and more advanced health care.

Which was why it felt shocking when Steve Jobs died. He clearly used every resource he had to live. 

Murdock seems ready to live forever too.

[aghst]

1 hour ago, jeansheridan said:

Which was why it felt shocking when Steve Jobs died. He clearly used every resource he had to live. 

Murdock seems ready to live forever too.

Well he used alternative treatments, not what his doctors were recommending.

Until it was too late.

[cardigirl]

14 hours ago, endure said:

I was thinking she might be considering reconciliation not wanting to be a single parent.

 

6 hours ago, maddie965 said:

I think not wanting to be a single parent is a big part of it, but not the whole story. The grief she's experiencing after losing Logan is messing with her emotions. We saw her turning to Tom for support a number of times, and he was always there. And no, I don't think he was faking it. He really cares about Shiv, always did, until she destroyed him with that conversation on the beach.

Anyway, I'm being incredibly optimistic here and hoping they can find a way to have true companionship together. Not sure Shiv is capable of feeling true love. But, with Tom, she might have a chance.

I fear for that baby though. Right now, I can't imagine Shiv being a mother or caring about anyone but herself. Let's see if the writers can give her some real feelings, for a change. The scheduled grief was a good start.

Well, I think Shiv was reluctant to become a mother in the first place. If she's 20 weeks, she was pregnant before the betrayal of Tom in Italy (?). She may have agreed to the pregnancy as a means of bringing Tom closer. I think they were discussing freezing embryos in the second season, where Shiv laid out a long-term plan for freezing embryos to use "someday," and mentioned 10 years, much to Tom's dismay. 

So now that she is pregnant, and was very very angry with Tom, I'm sure she's very conflicted as to how to proceed. It will be very interesting to see how their story plays out. 

I feel she's a bit more calculated that worrying about being a single parent, as she has billions of dollars, she can buy a lot of support for raising her child. 

[endure]

5 hours ago, cardigirl said:

 

Well, I think Shiv was reluctant to become a mother in the first place. If she's 20 weeks, she was pregnant before the betrayal of Tom in Italy (?). She may have agreed to the pregnancy as a means of bringing Tom closer. I think they were discussing freezing embryos in the second season, where Shiv laid out a long-term plan for freezing embryos to use "someday," and mentioned 10 years, much to Tom's dismay. 

So now that she is pregnant, and was very very angry with Tom, I'm sure she's very conflicted as to how to proceed. It will be very interesting to see how their story plays out. 

I feel she's a bit more calculated that worrying about being a single parent, as she has billions of dollars, she can buy a lot of support for raising her child. 

I thought of the financial aspect but honestly there's a lot more to being a parent than money can ever buy.... it's better to have a supportive partner.

[cardigirl]

11 hours ago, endure said:

I thought of the financial aspect but honestly there's a lot more to being a parent than money can ever buy.... it's better to have a supportive partner.

I agree about that, but in Shiv's situation, worrying about providing for a child as a single mother is really not on the table. Worrying about whether she can be a good mother without Tom may be part of it.

Spoiler

(witness his cutting remark about her mothering skills from episode 7.)

I think she's probably more concerned about what her own mother was like, and what her mother said to her last season about being a mother. 

[Bluesky]

It’s really annoying to me that they all say “yea?” In their conversations.