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S02.E22: The Heir


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11 hours ago, phalange said:

Side tangent regarding the Woodstone family tree: I know the show always says Sam is Hetty's 5x(?) great grand niece, but that doesn't make sense to me. If Sophie was Sam's great aunt, that would make Sophie the sibling of Sam's grandparent, meaning Sam and Kelsey (if she weren't a fraud, obviously) would both be Hetty's 5x great granddaughters. Though Kelsey would've had a more direct claim to the house, of course, since Sophie was the owner.

My head just exploded trying to follow this, LOL. More seriously, before they knew this was a scam, did one of the characters say that Sophie was Sam's great-aunt? I thought there was some mention of them being cousins.

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(edited)

An article reasoning why it had to be Nigel who was sucked off (warning: 2nd half of article has a spoiler for the 4th season of the British version concerning which character got sucked off there, but it is not a character who corresponds to anyone in the US show, so only a spoiler for the UK edition)https://collider.com/ghosts-season-2-who-got-sucked-off/#:~:text=While Jay (Utkarsh Ambudkar) hoped,...departing to heaven.

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse
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(edited)
24 minutes ago, Artsda said:

The lawyer should be reported to the law board shouldn't he? Lose his license to practice. On top of being fired from the Woodstone account. 

Even if the situation was legit, Sam and Jay needed their own lawyer. He was essentially representing both sides, which is also a no-no.

Edited by ams1001
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2 hours ago, appositival said:

So one man's strip club is another man's heaven?

That was too funny! I know that there are conversations that take place between Sam on the ghosts she meets that are not shown, so I wonder if she tells David about Trevor being at the mansion. 

Of all the ghosts, Trevor, Pete, and Alberta seem to have had their past lives resolved the best, but I would hate to see any of them go. I hope it's the teen attic ghost and Ralph, a basement ghost; they get their happily ever after together.

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12 minutes ago, enduringforce said:

so I wonder if she tells David about Trevor being at the mansion. 

I would have loved to see his reaction to that bit of information!

Maybe let him stew a bit before telling him that Trevor apparently doesn't hold it against him (I mean, he only threw his dead body in a lake that one time, after all...).

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15 minutes ago, enduringforce said:

YES! Sam and Jay should definitely report him because if they don't, he is still representing them (the Woodstone family), and they can't trust anything he says from now on in. 

I’m pretty sure, as Sam is all that’s left of “the Woodstone family”, she’s not obligated to continue to retain him. It was convenient to keep him, as he handled the probate. She’ll likely fire him and find a new, competent lawyer they can trust. What a louse. 

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10 hours ago, MarquisDeCarabas said:

I think they are avoiding the disbarring Dan decision because they’d be worried about explaining how they figured out David couldn’t be the father. 

I don't thinthey have to explain it.  They asked for an independent DNA test, and Dan and Kelly confessed to committing fraud.  It should be enough for an investigation, even if Jay said he had some evidence and now is not willing to explain where he got it, shouldn't it?  Dan really needs to be punished more severely than with a "get out of my house."

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

So. We should probably end the season finale with Sam and Jay in the car parked facing the Woodstone, and Sam sees a burst of light going up from the house, indicating that a ghost has been sucked off [by an offer for a career advancing opportunity while a Writers Strike appears to be extending past actors' contract renewal deadlines].

It's not really necessary to set up an actor's potential exit (that may or may not happen) like that.  They can always film the same scene for the first episode of the next season when they know they need it.  I think it has to be more of a planned plot development for the next season than a "just in case we lose a cast member over the summer."

13 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Nah. I think the show's well aware of how the optics would look if they got rid of half of a same-sex couple like that, especially after they just had such a happy moment.

I'm sure they are aware.  At the same time, I cannot help but take Isaac's line "if Sam doesn't give us the guest room, I will tell her she is being homophobic. It gets things done" as a pushback on the idea that one shouldn't do something just because they might be accused of being homophobic.  It's a very interesting line, quite a social commentary, really.

Another interesting line was Flower's "Not every conversation has to make sense."  It made me think about the discussions about why some posters like to analyze things and point out inconsistencies in TV shows, while others say they just watch TV to relax and it doesn't matter to them whether the writers did not think things through.  I am not trying to start an argument, just saying I liked getting food for thought like that.  I wonder if the writers meant anything by it, like trying to claim the right to write things that don't have to make sense?

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2 hours ago, Paloma said:

My head just exploded trying to follow this, LOL. More seriously, before they knew this was a scam, did one of the characters say that Sophie was Sam's great-aunt? I thought there was some mention of them being cousins.

Yep, since the beginning Sophie was referred to as Sam's great aunt and also Hetty's great-great granddaughter. I can try to clarify, so apologies if this is even more confusing lol.

Sophie is David's mom and David was thought to be Kelsey's dad, making Sophie Kelsey's grandmother. Sophie would've been the sister of Sam's grandparent, so either Sam's mom or dad (we don't know which) would be David's first cousin. On the show, Sam calls David her uncle, but technically he's her first cousin once removed. Sam and Kelsey (if Kelsey hadn't been lying) would be second cousins. Second cousins share the same set of great grandparents, and great-great grandparents, etc. Hetty and Elias are Sam's 5x great grandparents.

Again, very sorry if I made this even less clear. 😅

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42 minutes ago, phalange said:

Yep, since the beginning Sophie was referred to as Sam's great aunt and also Hetty's great-great granddaughter. I can try to clarify, so apologies if this is even more confusing lol.

Sophie is David's mom and David was thought to be Kelsey's dad, making Sophie Kelsey's grandmother. Sophie would've been the sister of Sam's grandparent, so either Sam's mom or dad (we don't know which) would be David's first cousin. On the show, Sam calls David her uncle, but technically he's her first cousin once removed. Sam and Kelsey (if Kelsey hadn't been lying) would be second cousins. Second cousins share the same set of great grandparents, and great-great grandparents, etc. Hetty and Elias are Sam's 5x great grandparents.

Again, very sorry if I made this even less clear. 😅

That does help because I quit reading the first attempt halfway through lol. So IF Kelsey hadn’t been a co-conspirator in fraud with the despicable lawyer, she and Sam would have been equally removed from Elias and Hetty. 

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First of all, nice casting continuity using the same actor that was in the pilot episode to play the lawyer. I knew he had something to do with the scam. Interesting that they sort of borrowed this plot from the UK version, they really haven't done that since early S1.

My favorite bit was finding the ghost of David Woodstone at the strip club and Jay saying it's a good thing he didn't go to heaven. David: "This isn't heaven?" LOL. Also, good casting job, he did resemble the actor who played young David in the Trevor episode.

I, too, seriously doubt the show should write off any of the eight main ghosts. The light seemed to be coming from an upstairs room so I'm ruling out a basement ghost. (I don't think it would serve any purpose to write Nancy off, she's a good running gag and only recurring). I do think Stephanie is a good candidate, but I also think it might be one of the British ghosts from the shed, since Isaac and Nigel are engaged now.

I'm really worried about the writer's strike now. Please end it soon.

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(edited)

GASP! 

Looks like someone got sucked off, and just in time for the season finale! I guessed that we would have some kind of cliffhanger this season, but I thought it would be whether or not Sam and Jay can keep the house or that Jay would get injured and can see the ghosts now, but someone getting sucked off is a whole different thing! My first guess is that its one of the minor ghosts, like Stephanie or Nancy, but I'm very concerned that its Nigel. Is officially getting together with Isaac his unfished business? I really hope its not him, he and Isaac have been waiting literal centuries to get together, I would love to watch them planning a ghost wedding instead of Isaac being sad all season. This has been a great season, hopefully this writers strike ends quickly so we don't have to wait a long time for new episodes. 

I knew something was up with that attorney, no matter how much of an excellent showman he is. I felt bad that Sam got so excited that she had a cousin only to be disappointed, but at least Sam and Jay don't have to worry about losing the manor and the ghost gang. Loved the trip to the "gentlemen's club" with Trevor's old bro, and Thor constantly reminding Trevor that his bro dumped his body in the lake. 

My guess is that Ghost Court gave Hetty such a harsh punishment to get Alberta to forgive her, as mad as Alberta is she would feel really bad if Hetty was stuck out in the woods all year, she would miss her too much. 

"He reminds me of a man I knew who sold used longboats." 

Edited by tennisgurl
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(edited)
1 hour ago, Daff said:

I’m pretty sure, as Sam is all that’s left of “the Woodstone family”, she’s not obligated to continue to retain him. It was convenient to keep him, as he handled the probate. She’ll likely fire him and find a new, competent lawyer they can trust. What a louse. 

A an issue with not reporting the bad lawyer is that if he gets away without punishment, he's likely to try it again on someone else, and might be successful. And I agree with @shura that all Sam and Jay need to do is say they decided to get their own DNA test and [convincingly] relate Kelly's admission to being part of a Get Rich Quick Scheme. Plus, they would show the fake papers the bad lawyer had tried to pass off on them.

 

Edited by shapeshifter
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44 minutes ago, shura said:

It's not really necessary to set up an actor's potential exit (that may or may not happen) like that.  They can always film the same scene for the first episode of the next season when they know they need it.  I think it has to be more of a planned plot development for the next season than a "just in case we lose a cast member over the summer."

... I liked getting food for thought like that....

True. But maybe the writers wrote the Which Ghost Got Sucked Off cliffhanger at least in part as an expression of the fallout for actors (and writers!) due to the strike?

 

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1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

My guess is that Ghost Court gave Hetty such a harsh punishment to get Alberta to forgive her, as mad as Alberta is she would feel really bad if Hetty was stuck out in the woods all year, she would miss her too much. 

I hadn't thought of that.  I really did think a year in the woods was way too extreme, and was surprised that the court wasn't more sympathetic, but it makes sense if the ghosts, knowing Alberta, realized that her conscience probably wouldn't allow Hetty to suffer that long.

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2 hours ago, phalange said:

Sophie is David's mom and David was thought to be Kelsey's dad, making Sophie Kelsey's grandmother. Sophie would've been the sister of Sam's grandparent, so either Sam's mom or dad (we don't know which) would be David's first cousin. On the show, Sam calls David her uncle, but technically he's her first cousin once removed. Sam and Kelsey (if Kelsey hadn't been lying) would be second cousins. Second cousins share the same set of great grandparents, and great-great grandparents, etc. Hetty and Elias are Sam's 5x great grandparents.

I had to read this very slowly and more than once, but I got it this time! The funny thing is that I do genealogy for my family and am usually able to rattle off relationships of various levels of aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. for multiple branches of the tree. But I guess it's easier when you have a personal connection than when it is a fictional family.

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14 hours ago, MarquisDeCarabas said:

I think they are avoiding the disbarring Dan decision because they’d be worried about explaining how they figured out David couldn’t be the father. 

They could have made up the sterility assertion; whether or not it's true, it led to an immediate confession by the lawyer, and they have the falsified DNA issue on their side. The lawyer should be toast in any reasonable universe. Sam and Jay don't need to prove David was sterile. They only need to show that the lawyer was attempting to defraud them.

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5 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

An article reasoning why it had to be Nigel who was sucked off (warning: 2nd half of article has a spoiler for the 4th season of the British version concerning which character got sucked off there, but it is not a character who corresponds to anyone in the US show, so only a spoiler for the UK edition)https://collider.com/ghosts-season-2-who-got-sucked-off/#:~:text=While Jay (Utkarsh Ambudkar) hoped,...departing to heaven.

That article raises some very valid and logical points.  Our own PrimeTimer also has a good article about who it might be: https://www.primetimer.com/quickhits/ghosts-season-2-finale-character-leaving-show-sucked-off.  What impresses me about their argument regarding the resolution of something in Nigel's life is that it's not his engagement (to me, his actual marriage would be more of a resolution) but the fact that he learned to love someone who was once his enemy--and I think we tend to forget that, while they were both alive, he and Isaac really were genuine enemies.  So, yeah, I guess that would be a big deal for him in terms of resolutions.

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6 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

That's what I was thinking. The obvious choice would be Hetty, since she's grown so much in recent times, or maybe Alberta since she's solved her murder and forgave a friend.

It's funny, though, everyone keeps bringing up how these characters have found some kind of peace or closure on this or that aspect of their lives as a reason why they might've been sucked off, but how many times have we been saying that thus far about any new step they've taken, or any new resolution to some unfinished business from their lives....and yet they're still here. Yes, the ghosts have talked about how unfinished business is an explanation for them being ghosts, but that doesn't necessarily mean, or have to mean, that's the only thing keeping them here as ghosts. Even with all the strides they've made thus far, I still think there's other stuff they've yet to resolve from both their lives and possibly their afterlives.

Or maybe there's some other reason entirely that they're still around, too - for all their talk about wanting to be sucked off, maybe deep down they're choosing to stay, too, for various reasons. 

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37 minutes ago, kathyk24 said:

I think the ghost who will be sucked off is Hetty. She made peace with Elias and Molly and confessed her most painful secret so she could move on. I'm glad the fake heir storyline was resolved quickly. I doubt Isaac or Nigel would be sucked off since their romance has received positive publicity.

It has nothing to do with what character made what peace with whatever.  Hetty is a very very popular character on an extremely popular sitcom.  Unless the actress playing her got a mind blowing offer of a lifetime to go star in a major deal there is no way they would write her off.

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12 hours ago, Skooma said:

Hope the strike ends soon for all concerned including us fans.

I'm not sure if that really matters. If they would just do what we tell them, the show would be fine.

Spoiler

Yes, this is a joke, sorry. Please don't tell me why this is impossible. Not all conversations need to make sense.

(and now we find out who really doesn't read spoilers)

 

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3 hours ago, PaulE said:

I really did think a year in the woods was way too extreme, and was surprised that the court wasn't more sympathetic, but it makes sense if the ghosts, knowing Alberta, realized that her conscience probably wouldn't allow Hetty to suffer that long.

Hetty probably could've snuck back into the mansion and hid out somewhere without them seeing her.  It would be sad for her to be isolated, but I think she could've figured out a way where she wasn't in the woods the whole time.  I'm glad that she and Alberta made up, although having to room with Flower is going to be a different kind of Hell for Hetty!

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I stand corrected from my previous post - that was the same actor playing David Woodstone that played him in the "Trevor's Pants" episode. Which must mean David died shortly after Trevor did, since he didn't age much. It's impressive they get the same actors back for these minor parts.

I think I've commented on this before but I love Sam's green sweater with the pearls.

Also, this is not the first time Trevor has quoted Woody Allen as an expert on relationships, but again, by 2000 Trevor would have known that Allen had already been somewhat disgraced.

Either they cut something or I missed it (twice), but I don't remember anything being said about the lawyer having gambling debts until Sam brought it up. How did she know?

Quote

Sophie is David's mom and David was thought to be Kelsey's dad, making Sophie Kelsey's grandmother. Sophie would've been the sister of Sam's grandparent, so either Sam's mom or dad (we don't know which) would be David's first cousin. On the show, Sam calls David her uncle, but technically he's her first cousin once removed. Sam and Kelsey (if Kelsey hadn't been lying) would be second cousins. Second cousins share the same set of great grandparents, and great-great grandparents, etc. Hetty and Elias are Sam's 5x great grandparents.

It's possible Sophie had a sibling whose spouse was only related by marriage, and that's who Sam's direct ancestor is. Although if she were not descended from the sibling her/himself it would mean said spouse remarried and Sam's relationship to the Woodstone family is quite tenuous. The UK version made Allison's relation to the family tree much more complicated/murky, but in both cases I think the idea is that both women are literally the only living people who can possibly be claimants to the estate, no matter how distant their connection. (The terms "aunt" and "uncle" are often used informally when referring to older relatives.)

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4 hours ago, Chit Chat said:

Hetty probably could've snuck back into the mansion and hid out somewhere without them seeing her.  It would be sad for her to be isolated, but I think she could've figured out a way where she wasn't in the woods the whole time.  I'm glad that she and Alberta made up, although having to room with Flower is going to be a different kind of Hell for Hetty!

I can not wait to see hetty and flower as roommates lol I love this show. Never has there been a show as funny and wholesome ❤️

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I think it will be Attic Girl. She finally got her "prom night". 

I also think this episode and the UK episode with a similar plotline are really interesting to consider together. The UK show is a little darker, a little less sitcom-y. The UK version, it genuinely felt like something bad might happen, and the ending was a surprise. In this, the US version, you knew there was going to be a "Bewitched" resolution. The way this show rises above Bewitched is in the performances (IMO), and the little character asides. For example Jay post-sushi.

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1 minute ago, AuntTora said:

I think it will be Attic Girl. She finally got her "prom night". 

I also think this episode and the UK episode with a similar plotline are really interesting to consider together. The UK show is a little darker, a little less sitcom-y. The UK version, it genuinely felt like something bad might happen, and the ending was a surprise. In this, the US version, you knew there was going to be a "Bewitched" resolution. The way this show rises above Bewitched is in the performances (IMO), and the little character asides. For example Jay post-sushi.

I said something similar elsewhere! Yes. This. Each show has a very different vibe about it, so I think their response to such a storyline is going tp play a little differently as well. 

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57 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Either they cut something or I missed it (twice), but I don't remember anything being said about the lawyer having gambling debts until Sam brought it up. How did she know?

He said it himself shortly before Sam mentioned the gambling debts: "The New York Knicks have been blowing some very large second half leads."

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Other than the bed, we didn't see what Isaac was going to do with the money. That's a lot more money than he'll need for a bed. Maybe they will bring the money back as a plot device later. For most of the episode, I thought he was somehow going to use the money to pay off the woman trying to take the mansion from Sam and Jay, and I couldn't figure out how his 10G would be enough to do that. I was glad they didn't go that route, because it's too obvious a sitcom beat.

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20 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Other than the bed, we didn't see what Isaac was going to do with the money. That's a lot more money than he'll need for a bed. Maybe they will bring the money back as a plot device later. 

They'll probably use some of it to decorate their new room :). Probably could eventually go towards making the place look nice for a ghost wedding, too, whenever that day comes. 

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(edited)
8 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Probably could eventually go towards making the place look nice for a ghost wedding, too, whenever that day comes. 

Renovated barns  are a common wedding venue. Maybe Isaac's $10k could go towards the restaurant barn rehab.

Of course, Isaac and Nigel would first have to be charmed by seeing videos of barn venue weddings.

Edited by shapeshifter
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I remember a writer's strike, there was nothing on TV but reality & game shows. That was some years ago. The impetus to settling the strike was to put better programming on and getting back to normal. For the commercial networks the importance is less now, due to the many streaming services. The writers weren't going to write anything for next season, unless they already did. That isn't how unions work. They don't want to make anything easier. 

Anyway, it all depends on who wanted off the show, as far as who gets sucked off. Could be anybody! or just someone the writers decided could go. 

In case of Alberta & Isaac having their issues resolved and being in danger of getting sucked off -- the twist could be, those weren't their issues, there is something more!

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20 hours ago, kathyk24 said:

I think the ghost who will be sucked off is Hetty. She made peace with Elias and Molly and confessed her most painful secret so she could move on. I'm glad the fake heir storyline was resolved quickly. I doubt Isaac or Nigel would be sucked off since their romance has received positive publicity.

But:

19 hours ago, Skooma said:

It has nothing to do with what character made what peace with whatever.  Hetty is a very very popular character on an extremely popular sitcom.  Unless the actress playing her got a mind blowing offer of a lifetime to go star in a major deal there is no way they would write her off.

And:

56 minutes ago, TVMovieBuff said:

Anyway, it all depends on who wanted off the show, as far as who gets sucked off. Could be anybody! or just someone the writers decided could go. 

In case of Alberta & Isaac having their issues resolved and being in danger of getting sucked off -- the twist could be, those weren't their issues, there is something more!

However:
A game called "Sucked Off!" based on the characters of the show could be fun, with different characters getting sucked off each time you play, but then getting dropped back to the house at the start of each new game ― like when Hetty's maid and husband came back. Points would be awarded for guessing the correct ghost and whether they went up or down. Cards would be drawn explaining why or why not the ghost may or may not get sucked off.

 

About Hetty's almost-banishment: 
I wonder if the writers toyed with the idea of Hetty and Trevor thinking this could be a good way to amp up their secret hookups?

 

 

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54 minutes ago, TVMovieBuff said:

Anyway, it all depends on who wanted off the show, as far as who gets sucked off. Could be anybody! or just someone the writers decided could go. 

In case of Alberta & Isaac having their issues resolved and being in danger of getting sucked off -- the twist could be, those weren't their issues, there is something more!

I hope none of our main ghosts go, but they did a good job of not making it obvious who it would be. Alberta got her murder solved, Isaac was finally able to commit to a relationship with the man he loves, Nigel's now the happiest ghost in the house, you could argue that Hetty has finally become a strong, independent woman, Stephanie got her 80s romcom ending, maybe Crash has been able to keep his head for more than a week lol. The least likely would be Pete, Thor, Sass and Flower. They have all had "moments" but not recent enough for it to likely be them.

I do wonder if whoever it is, if it is one of our core ghosts, decides they don't want to go and half way through next ep (oh, the wait is going to be agony) decides to come back. Like, if it's Nigel or Isaac I could see either of them saying "thanks, but I just got my Heaven (kind of like Woodstone at the strip club) and comes back to their fiancé. 

I was giddy when Isaac got down on one knee. Such a huge step for him, and I get that, being from the era he is, that "shacking up" wasn't really something he was willing to do without a commitment. 

I love that the ghosts pushed Alberta's hand by giving Hetty a ridiculously harsh sentence so Alberta could realize that, while she wants Hetty to suffer a little, she doesn't want her out of her life because, though the lie was bad, Hetty means too much to her to let it ruin their friendship. Also love Alberta's alternate punishment. Hetty and Flower as roomies has so much comedic potential. 

I'm so sad the season is over. :( But I can't wait for my rewatch. 

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(edited)
22 hours ago, bunnyface said:

That's the way I laughed at the Howard Stern references.  The people around me, who didn't get it, were annoyed at my laughter and we had to rewind everything and watch again.  Which made me laugh again.

I laughed at this too, but it seemed odd to me that they would go there since the Ghosts audience wouldn't seem to me to be the same as a Stern show audience. It made sense on Newsradio when they did that because they were a NYC radio station and the characters were of an age to be fans.  But I'm glad someone else recognized it🙂

Edited by mansonlamps
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