S05.E20: What's So Funny About Peas, Love and Understanding?

[Pallas]

Darlene figures out a new plan to afford Mark's college tuition; Jackie and Louise try to help Becky meet a new guy.

[Annber03]

"I did this for my drummer when he was feeling unattractive after he lost his nose from doing too much cocaine..." 

LOL.

Aw, Becky and that guy were cute! I liked their interaction, they had a fun rapport and I liked that they had a similar sense of humor. I'm interested to see where this goes. 

(That said, I don't blame Becky for being so resistant to everyone's attempts to fix her up. Dating is tough in the best of times, if I were in her shoes, I'd be all, "Leave me alone", too.)

I share in everyone's reservations about Darlene taking that cafeteria job - I think Dan especially made some good points. But I also understand Darlene's desire to give her son everything he wants, and to help save him from being saddled with a bunch of debt, so... I loved the talk she and Mark had at the end, especially the bit regarding him calling her "Mom" when he sees her in the cafeteria :p. 

[ams1001]

Hate to break it to you, Mark, but you were never getting a music scholarship.

Taking a (probably minimum-wage) job that won't even pay your bills just so your kid gets free tuition is a stupid thing to do, unless you have a partner who actually makes enough to support you. Which you don't. How would they not qualify for any financial aid? I guarantee my parents made more than they do when I went to college and I got aid. Yes, I still had loans. It wasn't the end of the world. (And what were they considering for income? The salary of a job she hadn't started yet? The factory job she quit months ago? Her delivery tips?)

So Dan had to tell Ben about the cafeteria job? Darlene was seriously considering this without even mentioning it to her husband? (Why do I have a question mark after that? Of course she was.) What are the odds she can stay employed there for four whole years?

I was annoyed at Becky being pathetic with the napkin, but it was kinda worth it for this joke:
-Does this napkin look familiar?
-Is it claiming to know me? Because I'm here with a different napkin.

Not sure I'd wish her on poor Samwise.

I like Tyler. He's funny. "But I fly for Fed Ex so you'd have to get in a box."

Edited April 20, 2023 by ams1001

[Snow Apple]

Oh god. More poverty porn. This stupid show act like community college is the end of the world when in reality, it's the smart choice for the first two years. Less expensive and smaller classes.

Darlene could have saved that five percent for the two years of university later. Maybe there will be a management position at the university later and she'd be a shoo-in if she had stuck with her job for two years. But she quit after one day.

Dan is right. Darlene will struggle the rest of her life and she deserves it. I'm giving up sympathizing for her. It's too hard to care anymore.

[Browncoat]

I do wish they'd stop dissing community colleges.  The ones around here at least (including the one I work for) all have transfer agreements with the four-year state universities, and we have to meet their standards.  There is nothing easy about our classes!  They are significantly less expensive, too.

I'm not down with Darlene being a lunch lady regardless of the benefits for Mark.  I, too, find it hard to believe that they make too much for him to qualify for aid, but at least they finally addressed the aid/loans question we've all been asking about.

I am glad, however, that Becky finally figured out that Samwise was a good guy.  I hated that she didn't even bother to ask him if the napkin was his.  She asked everyone else!  He's too good for her.

 

[Rocknrollzombie]

So more dumb decisions, wow totally didn’t expect that said no one ever about this show 

 

so Becky can go to college to obtain a psych degree or whatever but mark can not ….I don’t even want to do the mental gymnastics I need my brain for work tmr.

Every-time I read about the new episodes and the plots I feel like I’m reading something that a person who has never worked in a warehouse,restaurant, any other job that people work to make an ends meet work has written. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Rocknrollzombie

[bad things are bad]

4 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

How would they not qualify for any financial aid? I guarantee my parents made more than they do when I went to college and I got aid. Yes, I still had loans. It wasn't the end of the world

THIS THIS THIS

The storyline is ridiculous.  Darlene hasn't had a job for more than 20 minutes,  and they make too much? They should at least make a feeble attempt at a realistic plot

Liking Becky and Samwise, though 

[DanaK]

I too disagree with Darlene’s decision. She should have kept her manager job and sent Mark to community college. He still get some social experience there. She needs to learn how to prioritize what’s best for her and her family overall. Just dumb

[greekmom]

Add me to the list of people who hated the storyline.  I dont know much about American universities vs college but the concensus here is that Mark could have either a) got aid or b) gone to community college than transferred.

I am tired of the fact that they just want to keep these people down on their luck.

Nice to see Sean Astin. Too bad they can't find someone for Becky as a permanent cast bases. I really liked that guy she was going to shack up at the hotel a few seasons ago.  What was his name ... Mikey I think?

[Starchild]

51 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I loved the talk she and Mark had at the end

Acting-wise, I found that scene fascinating.

I got the sense that when she started to tear up and got that little hitch in her voice, that Sara seemed actually surprised it happened. Then she went with it and was crying for real, and Ames' reaction seemed a little surprised as well, and he got emotional too.

And honestly, so did I. 

 

[ams1001]

27 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

Darlene could have saved that five percent for the two years of university later. Maybe there will be a management position at the university later and she'd be a shoo-in if she had stuck with her job for two years. But she quit after one day.

Or he could get a loan, go to the school he wants, and she could park some of her salary in a high-yield savings account and help him pay down the debt after he graduates. My parents gave us Christmas gifts for the first three years after we graduated that were earmarked for student loans (or a car for my brother the first year). The year I graduated, they gave us $2500 and my grandmother gave us $1000. I had to start paying December 1st, so my second payment was $3500. It made a decent dent (all my statements after that said I owed $0 for the month). I continued to pay the regular payment amount each month, and it put me far enough ahead that I could pay less or skip a month if I needed to (and I never did the math but I'm sure I paid a lot less in interest overall, too).

I realize I'm very lucky in that regard, but earning a decent salary she could save up a good amount over four years while he's in school, and once he graduates and gets a job they could both contribute to paying it off. Plus her salary would likely increase over those four years, as well. A cafeteria line job is going to start low and she might get an extra quarter or two an hour each year if she's lucky. Unless this is a super-expensive school, as a family they'd almost certainly be in a better position even if he took out loans if she's making a real salary in a job with room for advancement and real raises, and then made a plan to help him pay them off.

[txhorns79]

38 minutes ago, bad things are bad said:

The storyline is ridiculous.  Darlene hasn't had a job for more than 20 minutes,  and they make too much? They should at least make a feeble attempt at a realistic plot

The storyline is ridiculous, insulting and very frustrating.  I attended community college every summer home from my four year college for the specific purpose of making it so I could graduate earlier and save money.  There is nothing wrong with community college, and served its purpose for me.  Darlene has to be the most short-sighted person in the world.  She has no sense of priorities, and she's going to hurt her family's financial future for the sake of giving Mark something he could get (a college "experience") regardless of what she does. 

[ams1001]

1 minute ago, txhorns79 said:

The storyline is ridiculous, insulting and very frustrating.  I attended community college every summer home from my four year college for the specific purpose of making it so I could graduate earlier and save money.  There is nothing wrong with community college, and served its purpose for me. 

My brother did the CC route, too. He worked and lived at home (no rent since he was in school), and then went to a state school where he lived on campus. Because of prerequisite issues (they accepted classes for transfer but he still had to take the prereqs after the fact) he actually went an extra year, but it was still overall a better deal financially. (And it worked out well for me because he was two years ahead of me, and a big chunk of my financial aid was a grant that got cut by almost 75% once he graduated, so I had to take an extra loan for only one year instead of two. I went to a private, out-of-state, school so that made a big difference). 

I thought his reason for wanting to go to college was so he could get a better job and get out of the financial trap that his family is perpetually stuck in. He should jump on the chance to get his education without it costing so much, not insist on a four-year school  just for an "experience." (On the other hand, I don't exactly blame him for wanting to be able to live in a dorm instead of behind a curtain in the living room. Hopefully he gets a decent roommate. Then again, obviously it's close enough that he could still live at home, which would save a lot of money. Does the 'employee discount' include room and board or just tuition?)

[jmonique]

I have never seen a show SO hellbent on constantly f*cking over its leads. 

The poverty porn, to borrow a phrase from another poster earlier, has grown very tiresome to watch. 

[SoMuchTV]

Looks like I’m an outlier here, but if taking that job truly means Mark can go to his ideal, best fit college for “next to nothing” it might not be the worst idea. Is the difference in pay between her current management job and the lunch lady job enough to be life changing?  And even if there’s a freeze now, once she’s in the system, she could apply for better jobs there when they become available. Not saying it’s the best idea, but maybe not the worst. 

[Rocknrollzombie]

How long do the writers think whatever is left of their fan base can suspend their belief for storylines that don’t have a ounce of realism. 

[greekmom]

28 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

Looks like I’m an outlier here, but if taking that job truly means Mark can go to his ideal, best fit college for “next to nothing” it might not be the worst idea. Is the difference in pay between her current management job and the lunch lady job enough to be life changing?  And even if there’s a freeze now, once she’s in the system, she could apply for better jobs there when they become available. Not saying it’s the best idea, but maybe not the worst. 

I would say that the management job paid 60K while the lunch lady job will earn her around low 20Ks. Seriously a no brainer even with the free tuition ride for Mark.  

Like a poster above stated, she could have socking away 10% annually which would have yielded her $24K by the time Mark graduates which would have assisted him in putting down a huge lump sum to start paying off the loans. And that's if she never netted any merit increases or bonuses. 

Seriously these people are so bad at math. 

[Mittengirl]

The lunch lady storyline makes no sense on so many levels. Even if there is only a 10k difference in salary between Darlene’s management job and her college one (which is unlikely), putting the difference aside to pay down Mark’s student loans would make more sense.  And Darlene does not have the personality for customer service.  How long will it be before some entitled student makes a smart ass remark that she reacts badly to?  Or a coworker (or many coworkers) takes offense to her superior attitude?  

Darlene said she would work as a lunch lady for 5 years, so I take it Mark is just finishing his junior year.  That means that she is losing 5 years of decent salary for 4 years of education.  That doesn’t make sense. Not to mention there is most likely no retirement plan or decent healthcare coverage with her food service job.  I would guess Ben has neither of those, as well.  

 

In a round-about way, what Dan said is what I have heard - there are loans for college, but there are no loans for retirement.  
 

Since Ben owns a hardware store, Mark should buy a snowblower, snow shovel, rake, pooper scooper and lawn mower at cost and be advertising everywhere for lawn care services.  Working off the books for cash, in any type of job, should be Mark’s goal for every spare moment of the next two years.  Hell, he should have started doing that years ago.  
 

And let’s not even get in to Ben’s situation as a small business owner.  What if there is a fire or tornado that destroys his business? Or if he gets sick/injured and is unable to work? Can they live on Darlene’s salary alone?

 

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Mittengirl

[Bastet]

I understand Darlene wanting to make this happen for Mark; her life didn't go the way she wanted, and she wants more for him.  (Especially if she knows how many students of his socioeconomic status do not wind up transferring from Lanford's community college to a four-year school.)  The real problem is how much higher education costs in this country (CC ought to be free, period, and state universities, for an undergrad degree, should be free based on need at least, if not universally), but the American reality is what they must work within.

But even that shitty system has more viable options than this show presents.  It's always been so artificially black and white -- Mark either gets a contrabassoon scholarship or doesn't go to school, now Darlene either quits the job she just finally got (and enjoys -- and this is someone who doesn't enjoy anything) or he doesn't go to school. 

It's good to point out how many scholarships basically cover a semester's books, so you'd need to get every one out there to make a meaningful dent in tuition.  And working at a university in order to get the tuition benefit for your kid is not a bad idea (that's what the mom of the guy I dated the summer between high school and college did)-- IF there's a job equivalent to the one you have, or at least close enough the tuition benefit means stepping down a little makes it worthwhile.  "Lunch lady"?  Nope.  As Dan said, "You'll be a woman in your fifties, you really think you're going to scoop corn for five years and then jump back into management?"

Plus, it makes no financial sense, comparing that piddly-ass salary (which will increase by pennies) to what she could earn over that same time period at her new job.  She and Ben have completely combined finances (bad idea, but this family is full of them), so if they can live on his income plus her cafeteria salary, they can certainly live on his income plus her management salary (which will increase more substantially) minus a nice percentage socked away in a low-risk investment account to help Mark pay off his student loans after he graduates. 

The conversation between Darlene and Mark, about how she's watched him lower his expectations every year since they had to move back to Lanford, breaking her heart, and now she has a chance to give him this and she won't be talked out of doing it -- but he has to call her Mom in the cafeteria so the other students know how much she's sacrificing -- was terribly sweet.  But watching her quit her new job after a day was terribly painful.

Jackie and Louise have such outdated, sexist ideas, it's pathetic; I love that Becky attracted Tyler naturally, not by following any of their stupid advice.  I liked Becky and Tyler bonding over their embarrassing families, and Becky stepping back when the other woman came up was sweet.  Him showing up to ask her out - and apologizing for coming to her workplace to do it, but saying he didn't know any other way - was cute, and I loved "But I fly for Fed-Ex, so you gotta get in a box" when she found out he's a pilot and wondered if that meant he can fly her around for free.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Bastet

[Brn2bwild]

I haven't seen this episode yet and from the comments, I'm not sure I want to watch.  Did Darlene end up groveling to her previous job and request to get her position back, or is she still a lunch lady by the end?

[Irate Panda]

Why do I feel like we put more thought and work into the storylines than the writers 🙄

[UYI]

My favorite part of Darlene and Mark's conversation was that he would call ALL the lunch ladies Mom, not just her--I would almost say that line made it worth this whole story. Almost. I would think Darlene would have been at least nominally more interested in the position that involved blood, though, given her history as a goth kid/her family's love of Halloween. Just saying. 

What I hate (Besides the obvious--would have been less stupid/more realistic if Darlene had decided to keep her management job/worked part time as a lunch lady? Probably not an option, just throwing it out there) is how out dated the outlook on community college is here. It made sense in 1992 when Becky realized she wouldn't be able to go to a four year college straight out of high school like she'd dreamed of (without a scholarship, that is)--there was still a stigma around the idea of "just" going to a community college (hell, I graduated high school in 2007 and I'll fully admit that I looked at it as the "worse" option and was grateful that I went to a four year school), but even with the concern about how many students in that area might actually transfer to a four year school, I would think that the value of community colleges is MUCH more universally accepted by most people these days (and that includes myself, too, for the record). 

Edited April 20, 2023 by UYI

[Bastet]

5 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

Did Darlene end up groveling to her previous job and request to get her position back, or is she still a lunch lady by the end?

Nope, she's wearing an apron and a name tag at the end. 

(And, as she kept saying, there's nothing wrong with that.  But there's also nothing noble in taking that job over a white collar one with potential advancement, especially when the decision is made without ever crunching the numbers.)

[UYI]

OH! And good for Becky for finding a genuine connection with that guy at the Lunchbox! I'm interested in what happens there. 

And, despite the overall stupidity of what she's doing to herself professionally, seeing the family surprise Darlene by wearing hairnets and lunch lady uniforms was oddly sweet and endearing. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by UYI

[buckboard]

Arguments aside about whether Mark should go to community college for two years, did he apply to only one school? He had good grades.  There must have been a state four year college he could have gotten into that wouldn't cost an arm and a leg. 

 He was told months ago that he wasn't going to get the orchestra scholarship.  Did he look into other sources of financial aid?  Darlene wasn't working when he applied, so he could easily have gotten some financial help.  

[Bastet]

21 minutes ago, UYI said:

And, despite the overall stupidity of what she's doing to herself professionally, seeing the family surprise Darlene by wearing hairnets and lunch lady uniforms was oddly sweet and endearing.

Yeah, that was a cute tag -- and they kept it Conner real by having Dan say they were going to move on (from this vegan meal for her) to eating something that had parents.  It was realistically sweet they'd support her decision and try to make her feel good about it.  It was just also realistically infuriating no one had the knowledge to go beyond Dan's objection to hit Darlene with some numbers that this is a seriously bad call! 

52 minutes ago, Mittengirl said:

And Darlene does not have the personality for customer service.  How long will it be before some entitled student makes a smart ass remark that she reacts badly to?

Exactly; in addition to the other issues, what are the odds of Darlene holding onto this job for five years?  She hates people (you and me both, sister) and food service is something she's very briefly done only because she had to (again -- I feel you, Darlene), so she doesn't have the personality for this job.  There are only so many times she can remind herself this is for Mark and suck it up -- especially since let's remember she completely screwed Harris over at the Faux Walmart job Harris got her by being an asshole to customers. 

If she can hold onto this long enough to apply for better paying jobs within the school, fine, but between her history and the current hiring freeze that could continue indefinitely, this was an incredibly short-sighted decision.

 

[athousandclowns]

Had to look up who the Becky’s  soon to be date was,  he looked so familiar. Patty Duke and John Austin’s son. I hadn’t seen anything he was in but he looked familiar. 
I don’t agree with what Darlene  is doing either. Thee has to be another way. Are there no work study programs like my husband did where he worked 3 months  in the field he was studying and went to school 3 months. Took him longer but got good experience too. 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by athousandclowns
Wrong character

[Irate Panda]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

 

Exactly; in addition to the other issues, what are the odds of Darlene holding onto this job for five years?  She hates people (you and me both, sister) and food service is something she's very briefly done only because she had to (again -- I feel you, Darlene), so she doesn't have the personality for this job.  There are only so many times she can remind herself this is for Mark and suck it up -- especially since let's remember she completely screwed Harris over at the Faux Walmart job Harris got her by being an asshole to customers. 

 

Didn’t Darlene also screw over Becky saying she needed the job Crystal gave up when she retired and Darlene lasted 5 seconds there because she hated customers?  The whole lunch lady plot is stupid.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Irate Panda

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 hour ago, buckboard said:

Arguments aside about whether Mark should go to community college for two years, did he apply to only one school? He had good grades.  There must have been a state four year college he could have gotten into that wouldn't cost an arm and a leg. 

Darlene said they couldn't afford any of the schools he got into, but that's not realistic. If he's as smart as they say he is, multiple not-so-well-known schools would be offering him substantial non-income based MERIT AID to help them raise their statistics for average HS GPA, admissions test scores, and college graduation rate.  And then he could play the different offers against each other.  He should have been applying all over the country.  But of course, the show needs to keep him near Lanford.

And I hate to say it because I don't like to discourage commitment, but if Ben and Darlene had waited to get married until Mark was a senior in college, then only Ben's contributions to their overall living expenses would have been considered as family income (that is, Darlene's mortgage expense would be reduced by Ben's contribution), and not his entire income. 

5 hours ago, ams1001 said:

(And what were they considering for income? The salary of a job she hadn't started yet? The factory job she quit months ago? Her delivery tips?)

This, exactly. They couldn't pay their bills recently.

Also, the financial aid application should have included the fact that Darlene (and Ben) are helping to support Becky and Beverly Rose.

1 hour ago, athousandclowns said:

Had to look up who the Becky’s  soon to be date was,  he looked so familiar. Patty Duke and John Austin’s son. I hadn’t seen anything he was in but he looked familiar.

Sean Astin is best known for his role as a hobbit in The Lord of the Rings trilogy. He also co-starred in The Goonies. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Taking a (probably minimum-wage) job that won't even pay your bills just so your kid gets free tuition is a stupid thing to do, unless you have a partner who actually makes enough to support you. Which you don't. How would they not qualify for any financial aid? I guarantee my parents made more than they do when I went to college and I got aid. Yes, I still had loans. It wasn't the end of the world. (And what were they considering for income? The salary of a job she hadn't started yet? The factory job she quit months ago? Her delivery tips?

This show angers me no end.  It's highly unrealistic for any school or other organization to hire anyone as overqualified as Darlene for a position as a "lunch lady".  Trust me, I know all about this having been out there willing to take any job just to get some income when I was out of work and being routinely told I was overqualified for anything even slightly under my level.  But in Darlene's case it's ridiculous because the extra money she would be making in the managerial job could go toward her son's education.  Like DUH.  Does anyone know just how little "lunch ladies" make?  My SIL was one, she made horrible money, plus in her case it wasn't even a full time job!  I just read that the average hourly wage for one is something dreadful like $11.00 an hour!  A managerial position would probably make 3 times that!  It's just ludicrous!  Unless Darlene were happy about taking a relatively menial job there would be zero reason to do it.  The numbers don't even work out.  For once, Dan was the voice of reason!

That said, I didn't qualify for financial aid either.  You have to look poor on tax forms and my parents didn't have enough deductions.  Both of my parents worked full time and this was back in the 1970s when a lot of moms didn't work.  My mom had to work, we would be too poor for her not to work.  But even with both of them working they had no assets plus my dad was in non-profit and my mom was a secretary in NYC where the cost of living was high, so we were very far from living on easy street.  But I was told I didn't qualify for aid because my parents didn't have enough deductions (they were on salaries and took the standard deduction) plus they only had one dependent, me, their only child.  It didn't even matter that I had great grades from one of the most prestigious public high schools in the entire US.  So they looked like they made more money on paper than other parents.  I had to beg for financial aid but the best they could do was give me a work-study grant, which was a pittance.  I ended up financing almost my entire college education on student loans, which in today's money would be the equivalent of about $35,000, an amount that was crippling to me as a young person just graduating.  It took me over a decade with the hardship deferrals to pay off.  Meanwhile all of my other classmates got grants and other aid and their parents owned private homes, had businesses and were obviously in a higher income bracket than my parents.  It was incredibly unfair.  So anyway I get how thanks to several loopholes someone could end up not getting financial aid that really needs it and others that don't need it as much would get it.

Anyway, thanks to my work-study grant I ended up working at my university after graduation and taking advantage of tuition remission to get my graduate degree for free.  So I got even with 'em, LOL.  I worked in undergrad. Admissions so I learned a thing or two about financial aid and found out that there are loopholes that favor parents with a lot of deductions, especially small business owners, since they typically take a lot of deductions (I found this out first hand when my husband had his own business for a few years).

 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

It also bothered me when Darlene put some pressure on Mark to make the Dean's List in return for her sacrifice. I'm sure that Mark will work hard in college, but he resorted to drugs in HS because he felt excessive academic pressure. Just let him try to do his best, with no specific expectations.

[pennben]

5 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

Oh god. More poverty porn. This stupid show act like community college is the end of the world when in reality, it's the smart choice for the first two years. Less expensive and smaller classes.

Yep. The show lost me here. What the actual hell. Ridiculous!  

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, buckboard said:

Arguments aside about whether Mark should go to community college for two years, did he apply to only one school? He had good grades.  There must have been a state four year college he could have gotten into that wouldn't cost an arm and a leg. 

I could have gone to community college but I lived in the Bronx when much of it was burning down so forget about that.  A state school would have been cheaper but I was not ready to leave NYC especially for "upstate" NY, plus the courses and culture at those schools were not interesting to me in the least.  And arguably, having to live on campus somewhere would increase the cost of the state school when I could commute to the private school in NYC and live at home.  

Having worked in college Admissions for 10 years after college I am continually surprised at the recent philosophy that any school is as good as any other.  There are good reasons schools have their reputations and I'll go down in flames standing up for that even if I get labeled an "education snob".  So be it.  I came from a HS with a stellar academic reputation so I felt I should go somewhere where I would feel challenged.  I am proud that I didn't give in to going to a school that didn't excite me, even for 2 years before transferring to another school.  My education was amazing and if I had compromised I know it would have been a let down for me.  So I am completely for a student (in this case, Mark) going to the school of their choice, even if it's a more expensive choice.  Within reason of course.  I paid dearly for my choice but looking back on it I don't think I would want to have done it any other way.

[marceline]

Damn, I want to hire some of you to be my financial planner. 😃

This story was offensively stupid for all the reasons stated above but I think what I really hate is the utter disdain this show has for its characters and the demographic they represent. It's not just poverty porn it's mean, outdated poverty porn that insults our intelligence.

[EtheltoTillie]

I am not completely against the lunch lady story line. I know people for whom this has worked.  
My friend’s father worked as a janitor at an Ivy League school, and my friend and his brother got free tuition there. The cost of the tuition at the school in the show is likely very high, so it may equal or exceed the difference in income between the two jobs Darlene is choosing between. My cousin got a great tuition benefit for his four children by working at a university. There may be some taxability issues to factor in as well. I’m not researching that. 
Overall we have to fault the show for its usual inadequate writing. The way the writers fail to provide sufficient information about how much the two jobs differ in salary. Are they really going to starve at the  lunch lady wage?  Will Darlene be able to move up to a better job at the college with time?  It might be better than student loans. 
As was previously mentioned in other episode discussions, there are also merit scholarships for kids with very high SAT scores and such, another option that was not explored. 

@Yeah No it seems like your mother could have gotten a job at your college and you would have had free tuition. 

[bluegirl147]

Years ago I worked at a food service at a college.  The food service company was an outside contractor.  The employee's children were not eligible for free tuition.  For the college employees children who did get free tuition that was all they got free.  If they chose to live on campus they had to pay for that.  If they ate at the cafeteria they had to pay for that.  They had to buy their books.  

And Darlene is not going to be promoted off the lunch line. If she is lucky she might have health insurance.  And what is she going to do during summer break?  Where I worked you could draw partial unemployment.  

And what is Mark going to major in?  I really hope it's something that will allow him to get a job after graduating.  But knowing this family (and these writers) it will be something that has no practical use in the real world.

I really hated this episode.  Poverty porn is the perfect description.

[DanielleBowden]

The tuition benefit for employee's kids typically takes a few years to kick in.  At my husband's large state university system, you have to be employed for 6 six years. There is reciprocity with other public unis and it is an amazing benefit.  It applies to tuition only, not books, not room and board.  Maybe Darlene will leverage her lunch lady role to seek out other opportunities at the school.  I ❤️ "Bob Newby" and I hope he and Becky work out.  

[EtheltoTillie]

Just now, DanielleBowden said:

The tuition benefit for employee's kids typically takes a few years to kick in.  At my husband's large state university system, you have to be employed for 6 six years. There isk out.  

That may be so at some schools but not all.  In the show it was made clear that it would kick in right away. 

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, EtheltoTillie said:

@Yeah No it seems like your mother could have gotten a job at your college and you would have had free tuition. 

She might have considered doing that but my mother was older than most other mothers of kids my age and had medical issues that cut her career short.  By my freshman year in college she was going on disability.  Looking back on this the fact that I didn't get financial aid feels crazy to me.  My parents didn't have any assets or secret bank account.  I would have found out about it by now!  If I knew then what I knew now I would have done more to fight this or perhaps considered a different school.  I had my heart set on that one, though.

But even so I would have felt terrible if she did that for me.  Having worked at my college and knowing what a "pink collar ghetto" it was first hand, I would never have wanted that for her.  She was a brilliant woman who suffered great poverty in her youth plus thanks to the attitudes in her family and society about women when she was young she was discouraged from getting a higher education herself.  She worked hard to get a college degree at night at a city college when I was in grade school but that was before the Bronx became a little unsafe.  She made as much money as a secretary possibly could at the time, working for big Manhattan law firms utilizing her fluency in both French and Italian.  Because of her literacy and her language talents she actually made as much as my father for half of her career if you can believe that and had respect in her position.  She was a women's rights advocate, having read Betty Friedan and following the women's movement.  It would have totally demoralized and demeaned her to have to work in such an environment.  The only reason I tolerated it myself was because it gave me free tuition for grad. school.  Looking back on it I don't know if it was worth the soul crushing effect it had on me.  At any rate, I understood how Mark in this episode didn't want his mom to make that sacrifice for him.  It's one thing for a man to do it but another for a woman, in my opinion.  I wonder how this is going to play out going forward.

 

[EtheltoTillie]

It suddenly occurred to me that the "executive hiring freeze" at the college is not in keeping with current reports of administrative bloat in higher education.  They should have had a job open for Darlene as a DEI administrator. 

My husband is a physician at a medical school.  They now have a department of well being and resilience.  I am not making that up. 

[kassa]

The only way this story line would have made sense is if the management job had zero benefits and taking the University job meant excellent healthcare and retirement options apart from the salary. Even that would have been a stretch, but it's a financial tradeoff people DO make regularly -- Ben is self employed and his premiums if he even has insurance must be astronomical, it would cover her kids until 26, and he has health issues.  

I'm remembering Darlene's attitude towards serving loose meat. I'm sure the university cafeteria has many more veg/vegan options than they did back in her day, but I can only imagine the lectures she'll be dosing out to the kids in line.  (Though come to think of it, even in the dark ages when I was at U the cafeterias were mostly staffed by work study students, which might put her more in a management position even if it doesn't pay like one)

Loved seeing actual human chemistry between Astin and Goran. Give the girl some happiness and the show some fun! 

[Yeah No]

By the way, the knowledge about tuition remission for employees was not commonly known close to 50 years ago.  You'd either have to have a friend or relative in the know to know that kind of thing or belong to a certain milieu or social network where that kind of information is passed around.  Before the internet such information was almost like a "trade secret", and I think certain groups wanted it to stay that way.  I didn't even find out about it until I got my work study job and my parents didn't travel in circles where they'd find out such information.  You'd think the financial aid office would have told me about it, but nooooo......

8 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

It suddenly occurred to me that the "executive hiring freeze" at the college is not in keeping with current reports of administrative bloat in higher education.  They should have had a job open for Darlene as a DEI administrator. 

My husband is a physician at a medical school.  They now have a department of well being and resilience.  I am not making that up. 

Yep, and I'm thinking that even if an administrative position was not available something more fitting than "lunch lady" should have been.  But of course on this show they have to make the worst option the only one.  What else is new?  🙄

 

7 minutes ago, kassa said:

The only way this story line would have made sense is if the management job had zero benefits and taking the University job meant excellent healthcare and retirement options apart from the salary. Even that would have been a stretch, but it's a financial tradeoff people DO make regularly -- Ben is self employed and his premiums if he even has insurance must be astronomical, it would cover her kids until 26, and he has health issues.  

Actually the universities I know about do have excellent benefits so yeah, they could have added that reason in addition to the tuition remission.  Some of them even provide old fashioned pensions and healthcare coverage in retirement.  That would have "sweetened the pot" a little and made the trade off more plausible.  But the whole thing is ludicrous anyway as someone else pointed out above, because I've not known university cafeterias to be run by the universities themselves but by catering companies that are hired by the universities and whose employees are theirs and not part of the university or its benefit programs.  It's also that way in most if not all of the corporate world these days.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Yeah No

[EtheltoTillie]

17 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

By the way, the knowledge about tuition remission for employees was not commonly known close to 50 years ago. 

This is absolutely correct.  I was thinking that earlier.  I didn't know about it until I was in college already. 

One of my college roommates worked in the cafeteria.  We used to laugh at her hairnet.  She took it well.

Edited April 20, 2023 by EtheltoTillie

[Rocknrollzombie]

I am never on broad with them trying to put Becky with guys. And Tyler to me looks like a mix between dan and Bob (from the original worked at the garage ) it just no.

 

and seriously I see no chemistry between Becky and Tyler and I watched the clip of their little convo at the Lobo. No chemistry whatsoever 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Rocknrollzombie

[EtheltoTillie]

I thought the Sean Astin character seemed nice!  Maybe a breakthrough.  I didn't even realize it was Sean Astin till someone posted, so thanks. 

[Yogisbooboo64]

Am I the only one totally pissed off at Darlene giving up a great job just so Mark can go to the college of his dreams?!  What in the bluedilly hell is wrong with a good community college?!  That’s why they’ll never get anywhere, IMO that was one sacrifice too many. 

LOVED the Tyler character (definitely my type, I would have picked him up at the Lunch Box!) and hope Sean Astin is recurring….time for Becky to get a decent guy like the other ladies.

[StaceyNotStacie]

My only take on Darlene and the new job is that I hope that either she or Harris also take advantage of the benefit to better themselves academically. It would be a great story if it turned out Darlene worked in the college cafeteria to help Mark pay for college and took advantage of the benefit and was able to get a Master’s degree for herself (I’m assuming she got a bachelor’s degree at the college in Chicago). 
 

Tyler reminded me of OG Dan Conner from the original show’s early seasons. I was alarmed to see how heavy he was since I’m used to seeing him in replays of the Goonies or Rudy. 

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Overall we have to fault the show for its usual inadequate writing. The way the writers fail to provide sufficient information about how much the two jobs differ in salary. Are they really going to starve at the  lunch lady wage?  Will Darlene be able to move up to a better job at the college with time?  It might be better than student loans. 

I think that is the main problem with the storyline.  Darlene's decision making appears rash.  She solved a short term problem without considering the real long term consequences.   

 

[Colorado David]

Wow this episode riled me up. Why so much hate and disdain for community colleges? Hell I loved going to CC. 

My read on Darlene: my son gets the best or nothing. Wow, no middle ground to pursue? There are tons of good schools, why does it have to what 1-3 choices only? You could knock the basic classes out in CC and that would give Darlene time to save 2 years worth of tuition so Mark could transfer for the higher level classes. And suck it up, this sense of entitlement is so irritating - you may have to go to a school not as great as  you'd like, but hey you can still get a degree, rather than nothing at all.

It almost feels like the writers feel they have to dumb everything down for their audience - and MAN i resent that attitude.

Ah Ben i feel ya - ulcers run in our family, we are a stressy family.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Colorado David

[Starchild]

12 hours ago, Bastet said:

Exactly; in addition to the other issues, what are the odds of Darlene holding onto this job for five years?  She hates people (you and me both, sister)

And me!

 

10 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

If he's as smart as they say he is

I'm beginning to wonder. Book-smart maybe, but beyond that...

 

4 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

And what is Mark going to major in?  I really hope it's something that will allow him to get a job after graduating.  But knowing this family (and these writers) it will be something that has no practical use in the real world.

In the interview, Darlene mentioned their awesome computer science program.