S08.E01: Deep Breath

[MarquisDeCarabas]

 

Ditto. What, is the mere thought of someone being older than 29 so upsetting that Moffat felt the need to lampshade it, repeatedly, and then beat it to death?

Probably the fact that in practically every media piece after Capaldi was first announced they kept asking about his age.  The question of is he too old came up a lot and that he was as old as Hartnell when he first started, and that he's the oldest actor tied with Hartnell.  So I can see why Moffat was trying to turn into the skid there.

 

As for Vastra and Jenny my take on the we're married we're married thing is.  They spend so much time denying their relationship in public that when they can actually talk about it openly to someone they go overboard.

[Namarie]

I loved nearly everything about this episode, most of all Peter Capaldi's Doctor. He was wonderful, absolutely awesome. Hilarious, dark, clever, and heartbreaking in proper measure. I also loved the new opening titles and theme (especially since I loathed the previous version of the music so much). Very, very cool.

 

Clara does seem to be getting some fleshing out as an actual character, which is good. Hope to see more of that.

 

Wasn't super excited to see Vastra, Jenny, and Strax again, since as others have said they tend to be used mainly as "funny" caricatures, but they were all right this time.

 

Other than, yes, a few too many moments of harping on how "old" Twelve looks compared to Eleven, my only real objection (or possible objection if it turns out how it looks like it's going to) to the ep was the final scene. I agree with this entirely:

We don't know yet who Missy is, but my first impression is that she's yet another of Moffat's stock female characters a la River Song, Tasha Lem, et al - we've never seen her before yet she claims to know him intimately and calls him her boyfriend. Typical Moffat and my one real complaint about this episode - makes me apprehensive of the season arc if it's going to go down that road yet again.

 

I would really like a different arc this season. If possible. Ahem.

 

Was that really Elisabeth Sladen's husband as the homeless man? Aw geez. *sniffle*

 

I think I need to watch it again, to catch all of the Doctor's one-liners that I missed because of lack of subtitles, Scottish accent, and rapid delivery. Oh, and I must chime in and say I loved the Doctor's scene where he asks Clara to try to see him. Beautiful - almost brought me to tears, more than Eleven's phone call.

[Eolivet]

I am a big Matt Smith fan as well, but he already had a farewell scene. Granted, it was to say goodbye in front of Amy Pond ("The first face that this face ever saw,") but jeeze, bringing him back for a phone call was sort of like having a drawn out good bye only to return because you forgot your keys.

 

Agreed. During that scene, I kept thinking it felt like a cheap narrative trick -- one that Russell T. Davies didn't have the luxury of resorting to when he changed Doctors with the same Companion. By the end of his episode, through Davies' writing, Ten was the Doctor -- Rose and the audience had accepted it. I also think the audience would've been fine with an older Doctor (at least the American audience would have -- men Capaldi's age headline nearly every crime drama on television) had Moffat's insecurity about it not been so transparent. When you're around anxious people, it makes you anxious -- so because he (through Clara) was anxious about the Doctor's age, so were we (or I was, anyway -- as a viewer).

 

Stop trying to make Vastra, Jenny and Strax happen, Moffat -- they are never going to happen. Also seen enough Victorian London to last me several years -- there are other time periods, you know (though I did wonder for a moment if Clara was going to travel in her Victorian outfit -- like her character from a previous Christmas Special).

 

I'm torn about this episode -- I think Capaldi is a great actor, and I enjoyed just watching him perform, but I felt my strings being yanked a few too many times by the writing (despite the clever dialogue). And Missy at the end made me long for the days when the big arcs revealed themselves gradually. I swear, if I heard the word "Trenzalore" one more time...

[Elsinore]

I watched this episode in a sold out theatre so my impressions might be a bit skewed.

 

This doctor will definitely do. I loved the comedy and the conflict and he did a wonderful job.

 

So when the Doctor fell off the bridge, Clara and the gang went home and to bed? The transition from "Oh noes, what if he drowns?" to "Good morning, what does the newspaper say?" was a little jarring.

 

I think they did the transition from one Doctor to the next better last time. The scene with the beggar in the alley made laugh so hard.

 

It's a good thing I have a thing for clockwork decorations because this new Tardis interior will take some getting used to.

[ABay]

Wait...wait...were they trying to tell us that the Doctor is old? And there's no flirting? And Vastra and Jenny are (gasp) married?! Why, those slid right past me. Damn. That Moffat. Master of Subtlety he is. Stephen "Subtle" Moffat, they call him.

 

And Lord of the Diminishing Returns, too. The Weeping Angels were terrifying in Blink and got progressively less so in every subsequent appearance. The reappearance of the creepy clockwork androids and the survival of the main one leads me to believe the same will happen with them.

Edited August 24, 2014 by ABay

[HauntedBathroom]

That was terrific! Thankfully we've got another 11 episodes of this to come, it almost made sitting through the bloody awful Tumble program beforehand tolerable (sidenote - how is Emma Samms not aging??). Capaldi was every bit as good as I expected, Clara started to be a bit more 3 dimensional, and I like the Paternoster gang. Since Moffat won't accept the BBC's offer to spin them off into their own series, I'm very glad to see them occasionally returning to the Mothership.

 

I wasn't expecting the return of the Clockwork Droids, but it did explain something that baffled me from Girl in the Fireplace - how did the droids come to the conclusion that the correct way to fix their ship was to cannabilise random humans? Clearly it's standard operating practise for this particular fleet, which would make me hesitant to sign up.

 

I loved the restaurant scene, and the Doctor sodding off to leave Clara to face the droids alone, without even prodding her memory about holding her breath. If she'd panicked and been cannabilised before he came back, I do wonder how guilty he'd have felt? Would he have written it off as her being to slow to remember, and so her fault? Intriguing. I can't wait to see how this plays out - more please, Moffat!

[SistaLadybug]

 

I'm interested to find out how it's all played for kids though. While Capaldi's Doctor in this episode was funny, at times, it wasn't necessarily humour aimed at kids, he no longer has that child-like wonder of 10 and 11. 

My daughter, who is 11, doesn't like this new Doctor at all yet and it's because of what you said - he doesn't have the child-like qualities of 10 and 11, at least not yet.  She wants and expects something in The Doctor that makes him feel closer to who she is and she believes there should be something about him that shows he has an affinity for children and is almost a child himself, in some ways.  I'm trying to convince her to give him a chance.  :-)

ETA The new titles; visuals were not bad, the music I don't like.

Same.  I think the visuals are very cool but the music doesn't have as much "doo doo DOO" as it used to and I want that back.

Edited August 24, 2014 by SistaLadybug

[SistaLadybug]

I HOWLED at the part in Matt's call where he says, "He sounds old.  Is he old?  Tell me he's not old!" and then goes on about how the new Doctor is afraid and wants to be accepted.  I have to say, that part worked on my daughter more than anything I'd said to her about giving the new Doctor a chance.  Hearing it from Matt (Her Doctor) somehow got through to her that this new Doctor is the same man and wants to be loved.  She softly said, "Well, maybe, then.  Maybe."  So, who knows?  It felt like overkill to me to keep harping on how old he is, but maybe that part was for the kids and others who just can't seem to move on.  

[Bill C.]

I still have no idea what was up with Twelve and his dropping the hair in the restaurant.  Some kind of attention check?

 

As a season opener it wasn't bad, if a little bit tonally all over the place.  To some degree I can understand Moffat wanting to address the perceived age gap from the past three Doctors to Twelve with this episode, but its going to eleven with it and the Madame Vastra/Jenny thing (though that indirectly gave us Clara flipping her lid and that Xena/Gabrielle "kiss," so...halfsies?) was more than a little excessive.  OTOH, it did let Peter Capaldi give a pretty good accounting of himself.

[GenieinTX]

I still have an open mind about the new Doctor.  I remember not having good feelings about the whole regeneration/Matt Smith thing after The Eleventh Hour.  Now going back and watching it, I realize how great that ep was and how Matt really was the Doctor.  I'm going to give it some time before I say whether I "like" Capaldi's Doctor or not.  I thought the Doctor figuring out who he was were the best moments of the episode.

 

However, Moffat was seriously getting on my nerves last night with some things.  Doctor: I'm not your boyfriend, Clara: I never thought you were.  YES SHE DID!  The heavy handed marriage stuff (we've seen Jenny/Vastra enough... we know), another Tasha Lem (knows the Doctor, has romantic feelings, etc), and other stuff. 

[AngelKitty]

My, what big teeth you have, Doctor!

[Llywela]

I still have no idea what was up with Twelve and his dropping the hair in the restaurant.  Some kind of attention check?

He was measuring displacement of air - it was how he figured out that no one else in the restaurant was breathing. No air displacement.

 

Reminded me of the 4th Doctor using his yoyo on Nerva Station for a gravity check. :D

[ottoDbusdriver]

He was measuring displacement of air - it was how he figured out that no one else in the restaurant was breathing. No air displacement.

 

The others in the restaurant weren't breathing, but they were moving constantly.  And Clara and the Doctor were moving moving -- AND -- breathing.  The dropped hair test wouldn't have confirmed anything.

[Mabinogia]

I also think the audience would've been fine with an older Doctor (at least the American audience would have -- men Capaldi's age headline nearly every crime drama on television) had Moffat's insecurity about it not been so transparent.

 

 

I love that we have an older Doctor. The Doctor IS actually very old. I hope that they pull back on telling us he looks old and deal with the fact that he is a very old soul. I feel like perhaps this season is going to deal more with the Doctor reflecting on his long life and actions. We have him with the face of someone he once saved not because he had to, but despite the fact he wasn't meant to but that Donna convinced him it was the least he could do. (Fires of Pompeii is one of my favorite eps because of that scene, when Donna basically begged him to save someone, anyone. She broke my heart). And this season starts by revisiting an old one off villain and another human who had a strong impact on him, Reinette. (I loved her too, so maybe I'm just happy at being reminded of some of my favorite stories).

 

I am optimistic about this season, despite Missy. I'm really not looking forward to River Song 2.0. Enough with random women we have never even heard a hint of being the most important woman who knows him most of all showing up out of the blue. It made me instantly hate River Song and it's not going to help me give Missy a fair chance unless their proves to be more to it than there was with River.

[Insomnia]

Llywela: But the thing is she does remember, unless they are throwing that out, right before the special where she threw herself into the stream and became fractured in the first place. AND she remembers the War Doctor and the three of them running around together. IF they had kept it that she didn't remember anything, I could buy it, but they've said she remembers everything - that's how that ad finds her in the first place for her to know she is the Impossible girl. And then add in to the fact she's upset that he looks so old now and it just doesn't feel right, to me anyway.

 

And the more I think about it, maybe they are trying to tell us there is something off with Clara, there was a lot of mention of companions. I mean sure it was cool to have a mutton-chopped Alphie doppelgänger in Victorian England... but really, half face was around for millions of years, why did it have to steal muttonchops Alphie's eyes? Something is up.

 

I liked the call, not because it had Smith again, but because he admitted that the Doctor was scared too, and it's not often that the Doctor has admitted he was truly scared, really.

 

ETA: Maybe it's because I grew up with Tom Baker as my Doctor (There I go dating myself again) but I really don't mind an older Doctor. Ten took a little getting used to for me since he was young - but he was older than me - if only by a few years, so that way okay, he wasn't really young. Just normal aged guy on TV, really. And then he became my TV boyfriend, so it was okay. Eleven was the one I had a really hard time with - the Doctor should NOT look younger than me, it was just this big cloud of wrongy wrongness that was just really wrong. And then he became my TV boyfriend too, so it was okay. I think that's why all the mention of Capaldi being old is throwing me off, because he's not that old to me, not really.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Insomnia

[tv echo]

I'm joining the minority.  I found this debut episode a bit disappointing and didn't care for the new Doctor.  The beginning of the episode with the dinosaur was a bit silly and didn't improve.  Also, Clara shouldn't have had a problem with an older Doctor.  Even when Matt Smith's Doctor grew old in Christmas, you could tell she still loved him.

 

As others have mentioned, the script was pretty heavy-handed throughout with its blatant pleas to Clara (really directed to viewers) to accept the older Doctor.  I don't have a problem with the age of the new Doctor.  I think Peter Capaldi is a good actor but he showed little on-screen charisma in this episode.  David Tennant and Matt Smith had charisma as the Doctor, and I enjoyed watching both of them.  It's not an age thing.  John Hurt, Tom Baker and Christopher Eccleston were older Doctors and had charisma as well. 

 

Also, Peter Capaldi's Doctor and Clara had no chemistry.  I'm not talking about romantic chemistry (I couldn't stand the Rose Tyler romantic beats).  Even before Tennant and Smith, past Doctors have had a kind of 'companion chemistry' with their companions.

 

But I'll give the new Doctor time to grow on me....

Edited August 24, 2014 by tv echo

[dmmetler]

It was a bit chaotic for me, but overall, I liked it. I liked the fact that to the doctor, things like Madame Pompadour, which were so significant for the audience, just were enough to bring on a sense of déjà vu. I like Vastra, Jenny, and Strax. And I think that Capaldi has the opportunity to become a great doctor. I do wish they hadn't killed the dinosaur, though. I kind of mentally wanted her to stay with Vastra-after all, if a lizard woman can get by in Victorian London without comment, surely she could keep a pet tyrannosaurus in the garden :).

I wish "Missy" had been River Song in the library. the doctor is married, darn it! He is NOT supposed to have a sweetie somewhere (I didn't like him marrying River, either, but at least I want him to be faithful!). Similarly, the idea that 12 missed by Clara not being his girlfriend really bugs me-because 12 is the form that actually MARRIED River, and she popped up all over the place in his timeline.

Best part for me-the preview. Gotta love Daleks :)

I do think. I'll be watching later episodes delayed, though-having to sit through all the commercials on the BBCA first broadcast was painful.

[Lugal]

 

And Lord of the Diminishing Returns, too. The Weeping Angels were terrifying in Blink and got progressively less so in every subsequent appearance. The reappearance of the creepy clockwork androids and the survival of the main one leads to believe the same will happen with them.

And not just villians either, but think River Song.  In interesting character when she first appeared, who I wouldn't mind seeing more of.  In her next appearances: cool we get to know more about her.  After that she was shoehorned in so often, it started to feel like the Doctor was a guest on his own show.  I get the feeling that we're going that way with the Paternoster Gang too.  Too bad, because I like them, and wouldn't mind seeing them on their own show.  Although I can see Moffett's reaction to the offer: A show with girls for leads?

 

Jenny's posing and Vastra isn't even painting ha ha ha!  I thought that Jenny/Vastra scene kind of sums up Moffett.  For that gag he now has all kinds of weird implications about their relationship.

 

I do like Capaldi and thik he's going to be an great doctor, once he settles in.  I didn't really need the phone call, but then I never cared for Matt Smith's Doctor anyway.  The whole "I speak Dinosaur" part at the beginning seemed like it was Matt Smith's Doctor.  Although the look after the android leader fell/jumped/was pushed was awesome and I can't wait to see that Doctor.

 

Also cool: that the Doctor is Scottish and not only Capaldi but Neve McIntosh (Vastra) got to use their real accents.

[random chance]

I am a big Matt Smith fan as well [...] but jeeze, bringing him back for a phone call was sort of like having a drawn out good bye only to return because you forgot your keys.

Heh - I'm a big fan of his too but that was a perfect analogy.

 

[Llywela]

The others in the restaurant weren't breathing, but they were moving constantly.  And Clara and the Doctor were moving moving -- AND -- breathing.  The dropped hair test wouldn't have confirmed anything.

Hey, I'm just repeating what the Doctor explained. If he can measure gravity with a yoyo acurately enough to tell he's on a space station not a planet, I'm willing to believe that he can watch a hair fall to the ground and calculate that there isn't enough air disturbance for the other diners present to be breathing - I imagine he'd take their physical motion into account for that calculation. ;)

 

Llywela: But the thing is she does remember, unless they are throwing that out, right before the special where she threw herself into the stream and became fractured in the first place. AND she remembers the War Doctor and the three of them running around together. IF they had kept it that she didn't remember anything, I could buy it, but they've said she remembers everything - that's how that ad finds her in the first place for her to know she is the Impossible girl. And then add in to the fact she's upset that he looks so old now and it just doesn't feel right, to me anyway.

 

And the more I think about it, maybe they are trying to tell us there is something off with Clara, there was a lot of mention of companions. I mean sure it was cool to have a mutton-chopped Alphie doppelgänger in Victorian England... but really, half face was around for millions of years, why did it have to steal muttonchops Alphie's eyes? Something is up.

 

I liked the call, not because it had Smith again, but because he admitted that the Doctor was scared too, and it's not often that the Doctor has admitted he was truly scared, really.

 

ETA: Maybe it's because I grew up with Tom Baker as my Doctor (There I go dating myself again) but I really don't mind an older Doctor. Ten took a little getting used to for me since he was young - but he was older than me - if only by a few years, so that way okay, he wasn't really young. Just normal aged guy on TV, really. And then he became my TV boyfriend, so it was okay. Eleven was the one I had a really hard time with - the Doctor should NOT look younger than me, it was just this big cloud of wrongy wrongness that was just really wrong. And then he became my TV boyfriend too, so it was okay. I think that's why all the mention of Capaldi being old is throwing me off, because he's not that old to me, not really.

Heh, I grew up with older Doctors, too, and also struggled with Smith's Doctor, not just because he looked young but because his behaviour was so childish - not childlike, as many other Doctors have been, but childish.

 

I'm reserving judgement on Clara. Again. Maybe there will turn out to be something wrong with her (I really hope not, because we just went through a whole season of 'what's up with Clara?' only to be told that nothing was, she was a perfectly normal person who did something extraordinary that created the previous oddness). But until such an explanation transpires, I'm just going to believe that she doesn't remember as much about her timestream adventures as advertised and that her multi-Doctor experience did not prepare her emotionally for the turmoil of 'her' Doctor's regeneration.

[LadyArcadia]

Isn't Clara the one who fondly looked into the War Doctor's eyes and said he looked young? Did they forget that bit?

[Primetimer]

Jeff Alexander and his son M. Edium (age 9½) talk fan-to-fan about the new Who.

Read the story

[Llywela]

Isn't Clara the one who fondly looked into the War Doctor's eyes and said he looked young? Did they forget that bit?

She thought his eyes looked young - innocent, not haunted the way the older-yet-younger-looking Doctors' eyes were. She was being kind and comforting to a troubled old man she'd just met. Very different to experiencing the complete transformation of her best friend into a completely different person who doesn't even recognise her.

 

She was a bit overly hung up on how old he now looks - show does tend to be heavy-handed about these things, and clearly felt they had a point to make there to the viewers (it never ceases to amaze me how Moffat can get hung up on over-explaining less important stuff like that, but then decide to cut out lines that directly deal with the emotional consequences of something major like Clara jumping into the Doctor's time stream because 'he doesn't think anyone will care'! Seriously!). But her reaction didn't break my suspension of disbelief. I mean, I know, intellectually, that everyone dies, but when it happens to someone I care about, I'm still going to get upset about it. Clara understands the concept of regeneration, broadly speaking, she's seen the Doctor's other faces (although may not remember them terribly well), but she still found it upsetting when 'her' Doctor, the one she fancied, changed so completely, because the guy she cared about so much is suddenly lost to her. I can sympathise with that. Especially bearing in mind what she said about not expecting a renewal to produce an already elderly body. She's grasped the concept, but doesn't really understand it - doesn't understand the complex psychological issues that can come into play when a new body is created.

 

Damn, I never expected to find myself defending Clara! This feels weird.

 

On another note, there were some gorgeous subtle little character moments for the Doctor in this episode. Capaldi was fantastic. :)

[Galileo908]

And, yeah, count me as one of those who got irritated by all the references to Doc 12's older appearance.  For pity's sake, he's not THAT old -- from the way they were going on about it, you'd think he was ready for a nursing home.

 

 

I was thinking that this was not too subtle jab at the fangirls who needed to be told to get used to an older Doctor.

[ABay]

I think even fangirls are allowed to have opinions and that it is not Moffat's place to decide what they can and can't like.

[Insomnia]

I'm hoping Missy is a is delusional and the Promised Land is really an insane asylum, and he's not really her boyfriend at all.

 

Although the whole he couldn't have been Clara's boyfriend because he was already married to Riversong makes a good point; if you can travel anywhere in time and space, and time, and time marches on in all times, relative to you, then is it really cheating? And how would Till Death Do Us Part work?

 

Dammit, I need a Doctor Who / Outlander cross-thread like, right now!

[beeble]

The show started in 1963, for Boomers and older folks, and for crying out loud Moffat, they're not ALL dead yet.  To many of them, Capaldi is just a pup.  I got a little insulted at the whole "Gosh this face is soooooo old" theme. Does Moffat think his viewers are a bunch of Kardashian-wannabes who think you should get botox at age 25? So people get lines on their faces. Some of us think it is a sign of having lived an interesting life, or at least having had more important things to do besides fret about those lines.

[darkestboy]

First thing is first - the new theme and title sequence are going to take a while to get used to. So far, not a fan of them.

 

The episode itself was great. An interesting opening episode for Capaldi's Doctor.

 

The Clockwork Droids haven't been used in eight years so getting another story with them was fine by me. They managed to be even creepier in this episode, especially the Half Face Man. I think the Doctor pushed him by the way.

 

Not sure what the promised land/paradise stuff is all about but Missy was definitely confirmed as the woman in the shop, definitely seems to want the Doctor and Clara to remain together and also referred to him as her boyfriend. I'm intrigued to see where this one goes as well.

 

Clara went through the gamut of emotions in this one but she's starting to become a better fleshed out character and that's a good thing. I liked that she got a reality check from Vastra about the Doctor's appearance and that she had his back in the episode and he hers as well when it counted.

 

The cameo from Eleven wasn't needed but it did add to the episode without taking anything away from Twelve. I like that Twelve and Clara ended up in Glasgow as well at the end of the episode.

 

Vastra and Jenny's relationship got a bit more depth in this episode too, and the kiss between them was overdue and nice. Strax is still a bit one note but amusing enough.

 

Alas, poor T-Rex, we hardly knew thee.

 

Do I need to point out how excellent Capaldi was in this episode? It was pretty obvious and I already know the show is going to be in safe hands with him but this was a great start for his reign, 9/10

[Anakerie]

I loved the premiere and I am going to love Capaldi's Doctor. I adored 9 and 10 had me the moment he started quoting Lion King. But for whatever reason, I never clicked with Matt Smith and 11. I didn't hate him, but I didn't have the same affection for him that I had for the other two. Capaldi won me over in less than 10 minutes. Loved seeing the Paternosters again, and Strax can always crack me up. Can't remember the exact wording but "We'll kill him with acid!" "We won't kill him with acid!" almost had me on the floor. This is also the first episode where I've liked Clara verses just being able to tolerate her, and knowing in theory the Doctor could regenerate is different than actually seeing it happen. As for Missy, I swear to God the actress was channeling John Simms in speech patterns and behavior. This definitely leads me to believe that Missy is short for Mistress. We know Time Lords can change gender (The Corsair did it). There also the idea that Time Lords subconsciously affect their regeneration (IE 9 regenerated as a 'pretty boy' for Rose). The Master and the The Doctor had more or less made peace the last time they met. I could get behind the theory that The Master in all of his wonderful batshit crazyness would take that to mean "HE LOVES ME" and influence his generation into a form he thought might appeal to The Doctor. It would be interesting.

[tv-talk]

I was thinking that this was not too subtle jab at the fangirls who needed to be told to get used to an older Doctor.

 

 

That was the recurrent theme throughout the episode which is fine by me though was too heavy-handed and is hopefully over and done with now. I loved when the Doctor thought Clara was Handles and said to her "you've really let yourself go." That's all that was actually needed if writers respected audience and thought they were paying attention, the Doctor finds a disembodied Cyberman head more appealing that hottie Clara because he's a 2,000yr old alien who isnt interested in romantic relationships with pudding brains. In case that excellent quip wasn't enough, the line about "like flirting with a mountain range" really summed it up perfectly and I would imagine was music to decades-old Who fans' ears.

 

Moffat is wrenching the show back to what it's always been at the risk of alienating a large, newer fanbase that has been tuning in for the underlying romantic tensions for years now. It's a fine line to walk and to do so he went overboard with Clara having to accept an 'old man' as the Doctor and even went so far as to make the Doctor in his current form seem so lesser due to age. Moffat is hamfistedly trying to reconcile between differing groups of fans and you can GUARANTEE, unfortunately, that Clara is going to have a love interest with a new character at some point in the near future.

 

What really struck me with Capaldi was when he flat out threatened the bum in the alley and was almost insinuating he'd hurt or kill him for the coat. Couple that with his utter disdain for us 'pudding heads' after the Trex burned up and we have potential for a much, much darker Doctor of the variety his human companions will feel is monstrous at times. That could be very, very good!

[Mabinogia]

What really struck me with Capaldi was when he flat out threatened the bum in the alley and was almost insinuating he'd hurt or kill him for the coat. Couple that with his utter disdain for us 'pudding heads' after the Trex burned up and we have potential for a much, much darker Doctor of the variety his human companions will feel is monstrous at times. That could be very, very good!

 

 

That could be very good indeed.  I love exploring the darker side of the Doctor. I think Peter is going to do great at that and matching it with humor because yes, he was hilarious this ep, but also kind of scary. Best of both worlds. And personally, I find him far sexier than Matt was (but I'm between their ages and always prefer the older, wiser to the younger, goofier man so there's that.)

 

I think it could be interesting to see the shift in his relationship with Clara. When I saw the two of them walking off for coffee I thought, "what are people walking by thinking of them? They look more like father and daughter than anything else, where with Matt they looked like a couple and if she'd been with Ten, despite an age difference I would still think couple. It could, if TIIC decide to go there, add a very new dynamic to the NewWho Doctor/Companion relationship. (I've never see Old Who so IDK if they've done a father/child dynamic. I want to say I think they did based on what my Whovian friends say but IDK. I'd be interested to see it though, since I didn't watch back then (if they did) *and that was really convoluted. lol* Anyway, my point is, it will be nice to see a different sort of relationship now that we have an older Doctor with the typical pretty young thing.

[tv-talk]

Further, as much as I want to I just cant get into Clara and I don't think the dynamic between her and the new Doctor is going to work unless she takes a less prominent role in the show. They've given her character far too much weight beyond what it's actually earned on-screen. There is really nothing particularly compelling about her yet she is supposed to be THE companion of all-times. The fact is she's very attractive which was obviously taken into account when being paired with Matt Smith and fed into their dynamic. Now the Doctor is completely different and a huge angle to her relationship with him has been eliminated, they are going to have to re-write her in essence to make it work and the actress is going to have to play a completely different role than the one for which she was chosen.

 

Much easier to just get a new Companion, this is Doctor Who after all.

 

Pretty weak that there's yet another mysterious woman calling the Doctor her boyfriend. She's going to have to turn out to be The Master rather than some ages old foe that had for some reason never been mentioned.

[EC Amber]

So I've had the night to sort things out a bit and am coming back for a fuller treatment of the episode and the tangential issues.

I found it amusing that the Doctor struggled to put Clara in context of his life - but found the dinosaur to be a "beautiful woman." Little nods like this did sell the "I'm an alien" far more than any of the age/sex issues they pounded us over the head with.

 

 

Clara - here's my fanwanking regarding her discomfort and hesitation over the Doctor's new face - there was never an indication that Clara ever remembered all of her different "echo lives" when she fragmented in the Doctor's timestream. Each one of her fragments was an echo, but an independent individual echo, separate from the "Clara" that is the origins for all the other Clara's in the Doctor's path. I don't think she was ever in a position to remember all of those serial lives. At best I think she just had flashes, bits that probably seemed incoherent and lacking context... but nothing linear, consistent or coherent. For me I never really doubted that this was a real struggle for her to wrap her head around. It seemed very reasonable to me, especially for what was a near instantaneous regeneration (opposed to the more drawn out one where you can see the features shift).

 

 

I love, love, LOVED the scene where Capaldi states "one of us is lying about our programming" and the Droid agrees. But we're never overtly informed if the Doctor is a murderer (of course he is/isn't - didn't he/not destroy all of Gallifrey <ahem>) - we don't know if the Droid jumped or was pushed. And the look(!) Capaldi shot... he was right, his eyebrows are independently angry! I love his eyebrows. I could have tea with those eyebrows and watch them throw all the pottery against the wall.

 

 

Vestra - OTOH I find myself rankling at her objectification of her wife. "You brighten up the room" as a pretty vase of flowers might. BUT, I'm willing to overlook that as being more about her species than commentary on the nature of women (I'm cutting Moffat slack, but I'm not convinced he deserves it). To that end I can see her somewhat dismissive/degrading comments as being part of her character - besides her character has a habit of doing that anyway. I'm chalking it up as species bias than a kind of misogyny. What took me out of her character is her just wandering about the streets of London with a veil, but not actually using it. I can kind of sort of be a little ok with the police capt being aware of her lizard... but everyone else on the street? Honestly I'd be more alarmed to see a bipedal lizard wearing clothes even if there were a T-Rex rampaging the city a few miles off. At least one has a modicum of reality to it. But nope - Victorian Londoners seem to be ok with her bossing around the police. It would have been a little more realistic (for a lizard woman wandering the streets of London) to at least keep a thin veil on as a nod to the audience that she takes steps to hide her appearance.

 

 

I enjoyed Strax when he interacted on a one-on-one basis, especially with Clara. Telling her "good job" on the spleen was funny as was his compliment on her appearance and then taking it back as it was a "trick of the light."

 

 

The phone call - I actually thought it was a pretty clever of 12 to call Clara. Not for her, but for him. He was looking out for his next version of himself, knowing that there would be that vulnerability and fear and knew that Clara would be the one to help ground him. I didn't take it as a good-bye to Clara. Oddly I felt like Clara's role with Smith's Doctor was conflicted in that he was physically attracted to her, but not very connected to her. At times he genuinely didn't seem to care very much for her, most like just fascinated with the enigma she appeared to be. So when he called her it just seemed more self-serving (not that that is a bad thing) and less of a specific good-bye to her.

[tv-talk]

(I've never see Old Who so IDK if they've done a father/child dynamic. I want to say I think they did based on what my Whovian friends say but IDK.

 

 

The Doctor has always been protective of humans in general which could be called fatherly but he's also rather condescending and dismissive towards humans too which didnt show up quite as much with Tenant and Smith imo. The show has also always had eye candy for Companions at various times, long list of very attractive women in revealing outfits running around the Tardis, but the Doctor has always completely ignored their sexuality- it was for audience members to appreciate at or gawk at depending on your view of these things. I would say it's obvious Capaldi's Doctor is going to draw on the Classic ones especially Baker (Tom and Colin)....but we'll see.

[Myjetnow]

Broadly speaking I really liked the episode - probably, besides the 25th anniversary, my favourite episode since Asylum of the Daleks. I adore Matt Smith, but I felt like it was the right time to switch up the Doctor. And Capaldi is definitely a breath of fresh air (but it'll be a long time before I stop seeing Malcolm Tucker).

I think the episode really benefitted from the 80 minute format. In series 7 the stories all felt very rushed - there was never any time for the episode to breath or hit genuine emotional beats. The pacing here was a big improvement (although I could have done with way less Paternoster Gang and moping Clara). Everything with the Doctor was fantastic. I especially loved his post-tardis-crash confusion, the restaurant scene, and his speech in the mall.

In terms of Clara, I'm glad they've finally given her a flaw/ characterization beyond perfect-feisty-but nice girl. That being said, her new "control freak" side came across as kind of off-putting rather than relatable. I cringed a bit in the (flashback? Hallucination?) scene where she was screaming at the students. I really hope that's not the kind of teacher she's supposed to be. The frustrating thing with Clara is that Jenna Coleman clearly has charisma and acting chops, but the script never let's her be a real person. She has zero quirks and very little sense of humour. I guess she's supposed to be the straight-man to the zany Doctor, but they've never used that dynamic successfully.

The whole "boyfriend" thing also bothered me a lot because it retroactively made the Eleven/Clara relationship explicitly romantic. The flirty couple-y vibe was one of my least favourite things about series 7, and I was hoping I could just pretend it never happened. But of course, in assuring the audience that twelve/Clara wouldn't be a thing (because "ick, twelve is so old") they had to make mention of eleven/Clara's looove for each other at every opportunity. And also in a way that was really patronizing to the show's female lead.

But, despite these problems, I did actually think the episode was well done. The call backs to girl in the fireplace, fires of Pompeii, and the Doctor missing Amy's long legs were all pretty fun. I didn't see Missy as a River rip off because I'm pretty sure she's meant to be a villain. There are definitely still some rough edges, but I'm excited to see more of Capaldi and I have a good feeling about the rest of the series.

[Lebanna]

I don't know why anyone is worried about the girlfriend comment, because from what I saw, Missy is totally and utterly evil. She thinks she's his girlfriend, but she's very much not.

I loved her dancing about like a nutty witch in her weird version of paradise. She's clearly going to be either the Big Bad, or Big Bad Adjacent this year.

And although I assume we're done with River, I wouldn't mind her coming back just once more to kick Missy's arse and to tell her to keep away from her man.

[tv-talk]

Everything with the Doctor was fantastic

 

 

Yup, that is my big positive takeaway from the show. Frankly I dont care if the Doctor is never, ever in Victorian London again and the Paternoster gang goes unseen for 2 seasons. And now would be a great time to bring in a new companion, which shows my ambivalence about Clara.

 

However Capaldi was terrific and that really gives us something to look forward too as he makes the role his own. High hopes that Moffat et al provide him with enough good material...

[Daisy]

I don't know if this is because I just watched 10 episodes of The Musketeers or this performance, but I have a feeling that I'm going to love Twelve (regardless of Moffatt's writing. I hate him. I hate him so freaking much.I don't know why I thought we were getting a new show-runner, but I was like for the love of GOD when I saw his name come up.

 

So if we're running down the Doctors. I like all of them that i've seen but one. (One-Two, Eight, Nine, Ten, War). 
 

Eleven (or Matt) never did it or me. He peeked my interest a lot in season Five, and then it just dropped right off a cliff. So When we had A Christmas Invasion like opening, that we're already in the middle of the story, who knows how they found the dinosaur, and Clara has the rare duty of explaining to the audience "This is the New Doctor." I liked it. It forced me to to hop a long (unlike Eleven where we had to get to know a new companion And a new Doctor - which is why I loved the "Hello, I'm the Doctor Speech."

 

So I find it very interesting that Twelve... really didn't have one? (I'm going to have to rewatch), but instead is begging Clara (and the audience) to see him as he is. An alien that we've traveled with and got too comfortable and he's changed. 

Because this is Moffatt, I'm not even going to get my hopes up, but this is my feeling on things

 

1: I'm wondering if Twelve is suffering from something more than Regeneration-itis. ie: he's been reset (a new set of... 12/13 regenerations), and maybe this is impacting him a lot more than we realize - ie: maybe this is the Valeyard's personality starting to shine through between cracks of the Doctor's muddled brain?

 

2: This is just the Doctor. He's cranky. And Scottish. (now imagine if we got a Companion who was Welsh? hehheh). 

 

those are just the two i have floating in my head. there could be more. 

 

In Regards to But He's So Old!! Thing. 
 

It actually... worked. Even though they took a hammer and smashed flies with it. The thing with Nine-Ten-Eleven is that they all looked young but i you looked into their eyes they were old. Twelve just doesn't look old behind the eyes, he's literally. Old. And even with throwing Three and Seven in there, generally speaking the Doctor has looked relatively young. So I could see why Clara (with her fragments of shattered life in there) would be thrown that at the very least, Twelve doesn't look as young as say, Eight. Or Nine, ie - keeping up the appearance of youth. 

 

Though I find Peter Capaldi very dashing. And old is very relative.  I am very much married to Star Trek's Jean-Luc Picard and Sean Connery. Old is very sexy given the right package.(and the thing is too. thinking about on my love of Ten.... his being 'pretty' never really had anything to do with it. (It was actually the Glasses that first sold it). it was just... Ten. and his toothy.. "hello"  Capaldi had me with his intensity and darknesss. Like I said I'm intrigued. 

 

 

Also, I think while Clara knows all the faces, she's never been part of a regeneration experience and had to deal with regeneration-itis. Ergo, this is her first rodeo, and we have a man who is all about the kidneys, doesn't know how to drive the TARDIS (we don't know how they found the Dinosaur), and JUST realising that he has a new set of regenerations. I think it was overwhelming for her. 

 

With that being said. I still don't like Clara, because I don't know Clara. And it's very obvious that Mofatt isn't going to let us know her. I hate Missy on Principle. (Boyfriend?)

[tv-talk]

I wouldn't mind her coming back just once more to kick Missy's arse and to tell her to keep away from her man.

 

 

I'd say it's almost a given that River is going to appear unexpectedly and save the day at some point

[TexasGal]

Further, as much as I want to I just cant get into Clara and I don't think the dynamic between her and the new Doctor is going to work unless she takes a less prominent role in the show. They've given her character far too much weight beyond what it's actually earned on-screen. There is really nothing particularly compelling about her yet she is supposed to be THE companion of all-times.

I think you mean, the LATEST THE companion of all-times. I have only watched New Who but understand that it wasn't always like this - each companion is so fabulous that they've actually saved humanity by themselves. I was starting to exclude Martha, but no she did that too. Not sure how they plan to keep having the current one top the last.

And honestly, if we have to suffer through various Moffatt hand wave never-minds about things, can't we have Donna back? Donna and Capaldi would rock.

Edited August 24, 2014 by TexasGal

[Mabinogia]

I would pay to see Donna and Capaldi. Wonder if she would recognize him from Pompeii? lol That could be interesting.

 

Donna: "Hey, don't I know you?"

Doctor: "Yeah, I'm the Doctor"

Donna: "No, that's not it. Why am I thinking ashes? Hey, do you smoke? Are you a pyro?"

Doctor: "No, I'm the doctor."

Donna: "Well, you are skinny like him...but you're so OOOOOOOLD"

*Doctor throws his hands in the air and prays for a volcano*

[shapeshifter]

It's kind of comforting to know I'm not the only one who cried at the phone call. I'm a few years older than Peter Capaldi, and lately I look in the mirror and try to see the girl who looked like Clara and wonder if she still exists.

My daughter, who is 11, doesn't like this new Doctor at all yet and it's because of what you said - he doesn't have the child-like qualities of 10 and 11, at least not yet....

I HOWLED at the part in Matt's call where he says, "He sounds old.  Is he old?  Tell me he's not old!" and then goes on about how the new Doctor is afraid and wants to be accepted....

Maybe the point of the phone call was to let us know that not only does this incarnation look older, but he's going to act older too.

[Llywela]

 (I've never see Old Who so IDK if they've done a father/child dynamic. I want to say I think they did based on what my Whovian friends say but IDK

Yeah, quite a number of the classic Doctors had something of a father-child dynamic with their companions - starting, of course, with the First Doctor having guardianship of his granddaughter, Susan. Quite a few subsequent companions were very blatantly substitute granddaughter figures for him, Vicki in particular, but also Dodo and Victoria spring to mind. The Seventh Doctor had a wonderful mentor-student relationship with Ace that I'd love to see repeated as a modern dynamic. Adric latched onto the Fourth Doctor as a father-figure. The Fifth Doctor was like a big brother to Adric, Tegan and Nyssa. Basically, the dynamics between classic Doctors and companions were a lot more varied than we've had in the new show!

 

There also the idea that Time Lords subconsciously affect their regeneration (IE 9 regenerated as a 'pretty boy' for Rose).

Also, Romana very consciously selected her new body, after first 'trying on' a few possibilities - various possibilities have been suggested for why she had more control over regeneration than the Doctor has ever had, but the inescapable conclusion is that the Doctor is generally just rubbish at regeneration!

 

I don't know why anyone is worried about the girlfriend comment, because from what I saw, Missy is totally and utterly evil. She thinks she's his girlfriend, but she's very much not.

It bothered me because this is a recurring theme over the last few seasons. First we met River Song - 'feisty' older woman we've never met before who seems/claims to know the Doctor inside out and have a relationship with him. Then we met Tasha Lem - 'feisty' older woman we've never met before who claims to know the Doctor well and have a romantic relationship with him. Madame Kovarian falls into much the same pattern. And now there's Missy - 'feisty' older woman we've never met before who claims to know the Doctor inside out and have a relationship with him.

 

One would have been fair enough. But it's getting ridiculous now. Time for a spot of variety!

 

I would pay to see Donna and Capaldi. Wonder if she would recognize him from Pompeii? lol That could be interesting.

 

Donna: "Hey, don't I know you?"

Doctor: "Yeah, I'm the Doctor"

Donna: "No, that's not it. Why am I thinking ashes? Hey, do you smoke? Are you a pyro?"

Doctor: "No, I'm the doctor."

Donna: "Well, you are skinny like him...but you're so OOOOOOOLD"

*Doctor throws his hands in the air and prays for a volcano*

Alas this can't happen as Donna had her memory wiped and doesn't remember either the Doctor or any of their adventures - and can't be allowed to remember, either, on pain of death.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Llywela

[benteen]

I really enjoyed the series premiere.  I wasn't sure at first...I found the middle portion descending into Moffat-written incoherence (I found it odd too that Clara would act the way she did when she knows the Doctor regenerates) but I thought it really picked up nicely once the Doctor and Clara meet at the restaurant.

 

I thought it was a strong debut for Capaldi.  His accent was a little difficult to understand at times but still felt like the Doctor and I'm intrigued by his new direction.  With the Doctor, it's not a single episode that judges him but an entire season.

 

Jenna Coleman also did a really good job and Clara had some strong stuff once she got down into the spaceship.  The direction of the holding her breath scene was impressive.

 

Was spoiled by the Matt Smith cameo months ago.  While I agree it wasn't needed, I enjoyed it anyway.  I laughed too at the "He sounds old" comment.  I always liked Matt Smith's Doctor, energetic and incredibly likeable.  I just don't think he was helped by the writing of that era, which is still around now.

 

I thought the villains were a good choice and the production values/FX was outstanding as ever.

 

I started watching Who last year, mostly on Netflix.  Loved the Eccleston and Tennant years.  While I enjoyed Matt Smith's portrayal, again, the writing boarded on incoherent at times and I actually found myself bored with a number of episodes.  Losing the great supporting characters that backed up CE and DT didn't help either.

 

I was very happy with the start of this new series and I'm looking forward to more.

Edited August 24, 2014 by benteen

[Terrafamilia]

My biggest peeve with the New Who is that they have scripts by telemarketers. The lines are spit out so rapidly so the viewer doesn't have time to really think about them and realize how shakey things are till later.

 

Did they explain why the dinosaur was so collossally ginormous? It was more in Godzilla's size range than any real dinosaur.

 

Do they not allow Strax to have any decent weapons? He ought to have been able to mow down the entire lot of clockbots all by himself.

 

I'm kind of ticked at Jenny's I'm a better person than you because I'd love Vastra no matter if/how she changed appearance speech to Clara. Would she be loving Vastra in the same way if she changed into a man? Some physical changes are significant.

 

How did the doctor get out from under the restaurant seat lift and into the dining room? (and why was there a handle on the underside anyway?)

 

I never really warmed up to Eccleston. I was a bit worried after the first hour with Capaldi that I'd have to just bear with it the best I could again but by the end of the evening things were definately looking up.

 

[beeble]

Did they explain why the dinosaur was so collossally ginormous? It was more in Godzilla's size range than any real dinosaur.

 

No they did not, and it bugged me as well. 

[EC Amber]

Interesting note on the Wiki page about continuity 
 

 

Towards the end of the story, the Doctor mentions the person who wrote the Impossible Girl article, and the "woman in the shop". The unnamed woman was first addressed in "The Bells of Saint John", who gave Clara a number to the Doctor's TARDIS.

 

Now I have to go back and watch that episode...

[Anakerie]

I think the answer to Missy's identify is staring us right in the face. Who does she remind you of immediately? Mary Poppins, that's who. And we all know Mary Poppins was a Time Lady. She had an ego,wears a bow-tie, likes shoes, has a flying umbrella, owns a bag that was bigger on the inside, took the kids to tea in a Zero room, can travel between dimensions, and sings a song in the stage version called "Practically Perfect." And Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious? Time Lord name. Possibly her real name, which means she sings yet another song about herself during the movie. So the theory I'm going with? The Big Bad for this season of Doctor Who is Mary "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" Poppins, renegade Time Lady. You're welcome...

[ABay]

She reminded me of Madame Kevorkian first, Mary Poppins after she started dancing.

[Anakerie]

One thing that pushes more toward the idea that Missy is the Master is the repeated references to "The Promised Land."  Because that's where all the people in that pocket universe thought they were going to end up, back when the Master was running around as Yana.