S02.E06: Abductions

[snarts]

1 hour ago, slowpoked said:

When I first saw Ep 1, when Daphne was swimming in the ocean, and came across the dead body, she swam back and ran on the beach, then into the arms of a man. I thought the man who first held her when she was yelling for help was her own husband, so I thought Cameron was safe for sure. But when I rewatched ep 1 again, especially for this scene, they actually didn't show the man who held her, as his back was to the camera. So Cameron is definitely not safe, I guess.

If Cameron were to die, I can't imagine any circumstance where Daphne would be swimming in the ocean and gushing to strangers about their amazing visit. Same could be said if either Ethan or Harper died. I fully expect that both couples will survive the week and go back to their lives, much like the original family on S1.

So many missed opportunities for communication, the biggest being Tanya & Portia. You'd think that as her assistant, they'd text throughout the day, especially when Portia realized they weren't returning to the villa. 

Could the red light on the camera be any larger/brighter? Even my cheap blink camera has the option to turn off the "you're being recorded" light so there are far more discrete cameras they could've used. I'm also curious why Quentin would be so blatantly messy in sharing the cowboy story & leaving the photo out.  Seems like a lot of mistakes for such a long con.

Also confused on Lucia's plot.  How could she be sure that the DiGrassos wouldn't confront Alessio? That could've easily backfired. 

[BusyOctober]

What me off earlier than last episode about the non-nephew was the kid’s accent compared to his “uncle’s “.  Quentin is supposedly from money (tho’ he has run through all of it apparently).  I think he grew up privileged, and speaking in a typical upper class accent (to my untrained American ears). Jack speaks with an almost cockney, working class accent.   If Quentin and Jack were blood related, I would think Jack would have the same style of speech, even if the big money had dwindled over time.

My friend and I were talking about how gorgeous Sicily is, and we are dying to see it. I said if I were ever lucky enough to go, no matter what type of hotel I could afford, I sure as hell wouldn’t be lolling around the hotel every damn day!   The White Lotus may be a luxurious resort, but leave the property people!  I would have little adventures  planned daily!  Museums, shopping, touring the region!

And why are they all (mostly) eating every meal at the hotel???  Portia and Albie have separately ventured out for gelato or arancini. Harper and Daphne went for an overnight, but looks like they ate at their rented villa.  Tanya maybe “off campus”, but she seems to be dining in house at Quentin’s villa.  This is ITALY!  There is amazing food at every turn…I am sure within walking distance of the hotel!  a maybe rich people want to just sit in one place and be waited on?  But don’t they get that treatment at home?  Money is wasted on the wealthy!

[Evie]

5 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I guess I didn't find this episode slow or lacking in plot.  Just in this episode, we had so much movement that was clearly setting up the finale:

• Ethan started unraveling.  I suspect he's going to be one of the dead bodies.  Maybe Cameron too in a mix of toxic masculinity taking each other out.
• It was revealed that Tanya was being set up.  I know many on this site predicted it, and it was guessed Greg was the cowboy, but if you weren't on a site full of speculation, I imagine that might come as a rather big surprise to a lot of viewers. 
• There was the hilarious anticlimactic conclusion to the DiGrassos searching for their roots.  (Does grandpa kill himself?  Maybe he's a dead body too?)
• The rose-colored glasses are falling off Portia in regards to Jack.
• And Valentina got laid.

Ethan and Cameron have another jet ski moment except this time one doesn't swerve? 

[Hedgehog2022]

4 hours ago, aghst said:

If it was a long con, how did Greg know how rich she was?  And he went out to an expensive Hawaiian resort just to meet her?

People with the kind of wealth Tanya has would have 2 or 3 Portias with her all the time.  They'd also have savvy lawyers and business managers who wouldn't expose her to a big liability.

But Greg convinces her to go to Sicily where Quentin lives?  Where there just happens to be another White Lotus hotel?  In real life they're both Four Seasons hotels.  If bodies turned up at two Four Seasons hotel, it would be international news.  Actually surprised the Four Seasons cooperates with this show, because they show the hotel managers acting pretty unprofessionally.

Again, the payoff for Greg and Quentin really seems questionable.  A more likely ploy is to kidnap Tanya or someone very close to Tanya and demand a big ransom.

I get what you're saying but the writers took some liberties with reality for the sake of a storyline...I forgive them for that. 

[aghst]

41 minutes ago, BusyOctober said:

My friend and I were talking about how gorgeous Sicily is, and we are dying to see it. I said if I were ever lucky enough to go, no matter what type of hotel I could afford, I sure as hell wouldn’t be lolling around the hotel every damn day!   The White Lotus may be a luxurious resort, but leave the property people!  I would have little adventures  planned daily!  Museums, shopping, touring the region!

And why are they all (mostly) eating every meal at the hotel???  Portia and Albie have separately ventured out for gelato or arancini. Harper and Daphne went for an overnight, but looks like they ate at their rented villa.  Tanya maybe “off campus”, but she seems to be dining in house at Quentin’s villa.  This is ITALY!  There is amazing food at every turn…I am sure within walking distance of the hotel!  a maybe rich people want to just sit in one place and be waited on?  But don’t they get that treatment at home?  Money is wasted on the wealthy!

There are just different types of travelers.

Some people are restless, try to fill every waking moment with activities or go see things.

Others like to be pampered in luxury.  Obviously there are a lot of 5-star resorts and they successfully attract people who would rather lounge around the pool all day, ordering drinks and laying out in the sun.

I'm definitely the former, but if and when I'm not able to move around as much, maybe I try the latter.

They ask the cast members about their vacation styles, like which of the characters they'd like to travel with (most of them say Tanya), whether they plan or just do things on a whim, whether they check in luggage.

They don't ask if they like resorts like the WL and hanging out most of the time at a swanky resort.

Most of the resorts in the Caribbean, Mexico and to a certain extent in Hawaii seem to cater to those who want luxury and not interested in the locale.  Outside of those resorts in the Caribbean and Mexico, there's a lot of poverty so these luxury resorts are like unreal oases of first world wealth surrounded by developing world poverty.

First season of WL hinted at that, the hotel workers, the ones of Polynesian descent, were poor and had some resentment about how their lands were taken from them.

They don't hint at that in this season of WL, but there's not exactly poverty but still impoverished communities, like the Testa dell'Acqua town that the Di Grassos visited.

Cameron comments about knowing the menus forwards and backwards by now.  Well within Taormina are a lot of restaurants and quick-bite places serving all different budgets.

Or they could drive a little further and find nice family-run trattorias which provide food representative of Sicilian fare.

There's convenience in having all the meals at the resort.  Convenience, saving time, ambience (with those gorgeous views all the time).

But doesn't make for "authentic" culinary exploration.

Edited December 5, 2022 by aghst

[Armchair Critic]

Now I am thinking it may be Portia who gets killed. 

Possibly the “nephew” too because it may be foreshadowing when he said that you never know when it might end.

It would be in line with the last season that the rich do damage and then get to walk away while the poor/working class end up paying for it.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Armchair Critic

[carrps]

2 hours ago, DawnGame said:

 It also brings to mind her powerful retort to her husband in the restaurant in an earlier episode. “I’m paying attention!” So whilst she’s a vain spacey klutz, she also notices stuff.

Yeah, she's not what's thought of as traditionally intelligent, but she has a craftiness.

17 minutes ago, WatcherUatl10 said:

It resonated with a lot of people. Harboring an unrequited love is the basis of many tales, and much art..

Yes, but it felt like he was "stealing" from the movie to borrow some of that emotion. If it's real, it's real, but if it's fake, it's cornball.

[Pike Ludwell]

There's some answers to a few things raised here, in the previews for ep. 7. They're at the very last few seconds of this episode, after the credits and the special interview. Easy to miss.

[Verovee]

53 minutes ago, aghst said:

Cameron comments about knowing the menus forwards and backwards by now.  Well within Taormina are a lot of restaurants and quick-bite places serving all different budgets.

Or they could drive a little further and find nice family-run trattorias which provide food representative of Sicilian fare.

There's convenience in having all the meals at the resort.  Convenience, saving time, ambience (with those gorgeous views all the time).

But doesn't make for "authentic" culinary exploration.

Going out to eat can be hard when you don’t speak the language. The staff at the hotel all speak excellent English. In my experience Italians are less likely to speak good English as some other Europeans. So the guests at WL probably eat at the hotel because they know the menu and also don’t have to worry about money because they bill it to their rooms.  Plus restaurants around hotels in tourist towns can be bad and overpriced (not that price is their concern at least not some of them). 
The language barrier  is weird to me especially with the de grassos. grandpa was so excited to meet relatives but didn’t think about engaging an interpreter until Albie mentions finding one?   they are so into their Italian roots but they can barely say basic phrases besides hello and good morning? They didn’t prepare a couple of phrases like “my family is from this town?” 
“my parents names are () and (). They grew up here”? They’re rich but didn’t have staff try to find relatives before showing up in the town?

I was also thinking that the only reason they had to think that family of women was de grassos was the word of Lucia and  she said she was from the area so she could have set up some other scam, who knows  I don’t think she did, but was thinking might be the case after she drove off with her likely ex boyfriend / cousin/ brother. Or simply set it up so they knew which road to catch them on. 

[DrSpaceman73]

Portia.....buyers remorse there real quick.  It hit midnight and he turned into a drunk horny frog. 

Obviously they are working Tanya for money. From the beginning I guess with Greg involved.  

Ethan Ethan ethan......wtf is wrong with you?  Maybe he is gay. Looking at Aubrey plaza lying there spread out in that black bikini, you're married to that and not enjoying the marriage, you've got serious problems. 

Based on the storylines seems everyone is running a scam of some type. 

I'm assuming Greg has in his prenuptial has something about a pay out for infidelity. Set it up so she cheated on him. 

[DrSpaceman73]

Also I guess that comment earlier where age asked Ethan if he wanted to cum on her tits or whatever I thought she was being sarcastic or flippant.....now that seems more relevant.  Sounds like they don't have actual sex just kind of sexual play. Occasionally. 

[izabella]

2 hours ago, snarts said:

Could the red light on the camera be any larger/brighter? Even my cheap blink camera has the option to turn off the "you're being recorded" light so there are far more discrete cameras they could've used. I'm also curious why Quentin would be so blatantly messy in sharing the cowboy story & leaving the photo out.  Seems like a lot of mistakes for such a long con.

I can't figure this out, either.  He's being so blatant and obvious.  I get that Tanya is often oblivious and self-centered, but It's almost like he's trying to be obvious.

Maybe that picture was Quentin's one mistake, and the overly-obvious camera is a producer's mistake. Maybe they just wanted the audience to notice it, but they made it a little too big.

[DawnGame]

@WatcherUatl10

”maiden, mother, crone?”

Fascinating.  Now you mention it, the three women were all “crones”.  My understanding is that the word ‘crone’ comes from the word ‘crown’ of the head, implying a further state of wisdom, and in fact the word “hag” means simply “wise”.  The English boy refers to all the women over 60 who visit his uncle’s villa as ‘hags’ of course!

It was a very strange scene, very unlike all the sun sea and sex scenes so far.  Definitely at a tangent.  Was the role of the 3 crones to sharply pull the three DiGrasso men out of their ‘fantasy’ world?.  To challenge the men’s delusions, of which they seem to have a few, to bring them back down to earth (the artichoke!).  In particular, the DiGrasso grandfather’s delusion about his marriage to his wife whilst having numerous affairs, as well as his delusion about the ‘homecoming’ they would find in Sicily. He was a sad and crushed man at dinner.  (Though did I imagine it and he may have designs on Mia or perhaps just admiring her from afar?) Maybe the father and son also have some delusions, especially about women ….

Also, “you want the pretty money, shame on you?” thing - I’m not sure why the crone screamed that at them. Also “what do we need men for?” was her droll observation on their announced arrival.  She did seem to enjoy very much shaking her artichoke at them as they backed off into their hire car.  The other two women were laughing too. The three crones were more than a match for the three men. The hags were not impressed with their arrival, their money or their intentions, perhaps a departure for these men who are used to getting what they want, (including easy money with which to buy sex in the case of the younger two).  

OTOH, when the old woman cursed them:  “I curse you and your kind”, it might be a reference to the mafia as much as wealthy foreigners?  I honestly don’t know.  A puzzle.

Anyway, an odd but telling little scene, perhaps?  

Just ruminations!  Now for some washing up!

Edited December 6, 2022 by DawnGame
Elaborate

[slowpoked]

3 hours ago, snarts said:

If Cameron were to die, I can't imagine any circumstance where Daphne would be swimming in the ocean and gushing to strangers about their amazing visit. Same could be said if either Ethan or Harper died. 

It's possible she's not yet aware her husband or Ethan or Harper have been missing and/or dead. 

Isn't it quite interesting she was by herself when she talked to the new vacationers? So far, she's always been with her husband, or with Harper, or with the 3 of them. She's never really ventured out alone, except for the spa treatment and to get some money in the bank when she was in Noto. 

That said, looking back now at her reaction, and with the other information the series has had for 6 episodes, I'm more inclined to think either she did not see the face of the dead body, or it wasn't one of Cameron, Ethan or Harper. If it was either one of latter three, I would think she would have tried to pull them out of the water to try to save them. 

But because there are multiple bodies this season, it's also quite possible any or all of those three died or were killed somewhere else in the hotel, and not in the ocean.

2 hours ago, aghst said:

Cameron comments about knowing the menus forwards and backwards by now.  Well within Taormina are a lot of restaurants and quick-bite places serving all different budgets.

1 hour ago, Verovee said:

Going out to eat can be hard when you don’t speak the language. The staff at the hotel all speak excellent English. In my experience Italians are less likely to speak good English as some other Europeans. So the guests at WL probably eat at the hotel because they know the menu and also don’t have to worry about money because they bill it to their rooms.  Plus restaurants around hotels in tourist towns can be bad and overpriced (not that price is their concern at least not some of them). 

My guess is, the reason they don't venture out as much when eating, is aside from the language barrier, WL is an all-inclusive resort, so all food and drinks are already included when they booked the room. Why not take advantage of the "free" stuff? And we all know rich people are suckers for free stuff, even if they can easily afford to buy it themselves.

But the foursome did venture out to do wine tastings. It was actually nice they showed them doing that. It would have driven me crazy that they went to a beautiful country such as Italy known for their wines and NO ONE did any kind of wine tastings whatsoever. You're going to be drinking Barolos IN FREAKING ITALY!!!

2 hours ago, aghst said:

Most of the resorts in the Caribbean, Mexico and to a certain extent in Hawaii seem to cater to those who want luxury and not interested in the locale.  Outside of those resorts in the Caribbean and Mexico, there's a lot of poverty so these luxury resorts are like unreal oases of first world wealth surrounded by developing world poverty.

This is actually an interesting point. Sometimes, I roll my eyes at those who immediately declare they want to move to the country on the SOLE basis of a 1-week stay at a five-star, all-inclusive resort. Sure, it feels like it's really nice to live in Costa Rica after staying in the Four Seasons hotel there, being attended to and pampered at every turn. But try living in Guanacaste or on the outskirts of San Jose before you decide you want to move to "paradise."

Edited December 6, 2022 by slowpoked

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, Verovee said:

Going out to eat can be hard when you don’t speak the language. The staff at the hotel all speak excellent English. In my experience Italians are less likely to speak good English as some other Europeans. So the guests at WL probably eat at the hotel because they know the menu and also don’t have to worry about money because they bill it to their rooms.  Plus restaurants around hotels in tourist towns can be bad and overpriced (not that price is their concern at least not some of them). 

I agree with this.  I'd probably be a better consumer now than when I first went to Italy but even though I was excited to try food/restaurants, I left never having had anything truly memorable there whereas I still dream about the carbonara I had in Austria.

These resorts often have multiple places to eat within the hotel and their restaurants are often destination places just to eat.  For instance, the Four Seasons Sicility (where this was shot) has a Michelin-starred restaurant.  I'd bet this is also true for the show version of the hotel. 

Plus, I know I preferred to eat closer to my hotel at the end of the day.  I did most of my food exploring for lunch. 

But I also don't agree that they never leave.  Tanya/Portia have been on quite a few excursions.  The DiGrassos have also had at least three days where we've seen them go sightseeing or finding their roots. Coming to the hotel is like a vacation for the Italian sex workers.  The couple quad is the only group that has been mostly hotel-bound with the exception of Daphne & Harper's night away. 

[carrps]

7 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

But I also don't agree that they never leave.

Tanya's little Monica Vitti day was my favorite "day trip."

[slowpoked]

47 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

The couple quad is the only group that has been mostly hotel-bound with the exception of Daphne & Harper's night away. 

Not true. They had wine tastings outside the hotel scheduled for the entire day where Harper got day drunk because she found the condom wrapper in their hotel room before they left to go out.

That little gesture of Harper where she was prodding the server to pour her more wine reminded me of a similar scene of Paul Giammati in Sideways, where he was also asking the server to pour him a full glass of wine. At least Harper didn’t go crazy and drank the spit bucket to get more wine.

Edited December 6, 2022 by slowpoked

[ShannaB]

21 hours ago, AzureOwl said:

I chalked that up to him being a bit senile.

I would assume that there would be an infidelity clause in the prenup, put in by her lawyers to protect her, but that such clauses tend to be reciprocal. 

As in that the prenup says "If one of the parties cheats" instead of "if Greg cheats". 

Thank you for this because I was going to say reciprocal clauses are fairly common.

I was also thinking that if Tanya is a Trust beneficiary, her parents could have included a 'no drug' clause or she loses her income.  She could have been a druggie when she was young.  She did say that she hadn't done cocaine for a long time.  Tanya was talked into a few very compromising situations that could have financial consequences for her so blackmail is on the table.

I have to say that I  am happy the finale is this Sunday.  These characters are exhausting to me, especially Tanya and her neediness and Portia's self pity that makes her so oblivious.  I can't believe Portia finally 'got a clue' and did nothing!

[divsc]

5 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

What me off earlier than last episode about the non-nephew was the kid’s accent compared to his “uncle’s “.  Quentin is supposedly from money (tho’ he has run through all of it apparently).  I think he grew up privileged, and speaking in a typical upper class accent (to my untrained American ears). Jack speaks with an almost cockney, working class accent.   If Quentin and Jack were blood related, I would think Jack would have the same style of speech, even if the big money had dwindled over time.

My friend and I were talking about how gorgeous Sicily is, and we are dying to see it. I said if I were ever lucky enough to go, no matter what type of hotel I could afford, I sure as hell wouldn’t be lolling around the hotel every damn day!   The White Lotus may be a luxurious resort, but leave the property people!  I would have little adventures  planned daily!  Museums, shopping, touring the region!

And why are they all (mostly) eating every meal at the hotel???  Portia and Albie have separately ventured out for gelato or arancini. Harper and Daphne went for an overnight, but looks like they ate at their rented villa.  Tanya maybe “off campus”, but she seems to be dining in house at Quentin’s villa.  This is ITALY!  There is amazing food at every turn…I am sure within walking distance of the hotel!  a maybe rich people want to just sit in one place and be waited on?  But don’t they get that treatment at home?  Money is wasted on the wealthy!

There was just a big article in the WSJ about this very thing! (pay wall)

A ‘White Lotus’ Mystery: Constant Hotel Dining

These decadent television characters can afford any meal, anywhere. Why do they stick with the same in-house menu?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-white-lotus-mystery-constant-hotel-dining-11669991738

[nb360]

I think the scenes trying to show Ethan's imagination (of Cameron and Harper sleeping together) kind of threw the episode "off."

In Season 1, Armond had some hazy visions when he was drugged up and those came off better, perhaps because we knew Armond had been on drugs. Ethan apparently isn't taking anything (not even ambien).

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, nb360 said:

I think the scenes trying to show Ethan's imagination (of Cameron and Harper sleeping together) kind of threw the episode "off."

Didn't Ethan say in the previous episode that there had been multiple times in college where he walked in on Cameron sleeping with a girl Ethan was dating? That's probably still a big insecurity for him.

[Grammaeryn]

Crazy theory: I have been noticing Jon Gries has been in the credits for the last couple episodes. White Lotus tends to be pretty consistent with their show credits - remember when Molly Shannon popped up last season? So what if Greg is at the Palazzo in disguise? My first suspicion is Salvador Dali mustache guy.

[ZeeEnnui]

The lesson we learned tonight is USE YOUR WORDS, Tanya and Ethan. Unless you're Albie and then use the freaking translate app that comes with your iPhone! That blew my mind. The DiGrasso's lose their Prosti-translator, and decide to still visit the relatives that they've never met even though they can't speak the language. Crazy. Someone should have at least done a few sessions with Duolingo or at least said the name of Bert's mother. I think someone else mentioned this, but if Bert's mother was from the village then wouldn't she have a different name? Unless this is a kissing cousins situation, her last name is different. 

Tanya's advice to Portia was pretty good except way too vague. Don't want to mention what you saw the night before (again, this is why we knock). Cool. Then maybe start discussing families that are really close like the Lannisters or Targaryen's. Portia is slow on the uptake, but a pop culture might get through to her. 

Also, when you see multiple red flags. Don't collect them. GTFO. Seriously, Tanya was clearly so uncomfortable after what she saw. I'd go back to the White Lotus before Quentin came down for breakfast. Same with Portia. She was obviously increasingly uncomfortable, but didn't feel like she could leave her British fuck boi. I'd have said I was going to the ice machine, and left him at the hotel to sleep it off. 

Paging White Lotus HR. You've got another potential sexual harassment claim on your hands. 

Count me among those that don't think Harper slept with Cameron. She can't stand his smarmy ass. I think she knew that she could fuck with Ethan, and decided to get some payback. However, I don't think she realized that her husband may be freaking crazy so they may end up being that vacation couple on a Dateline special. 

[Baltimore Betty]

9 hours ago, divsc said:

There was just a big article in the WSJ about this very thing! (pay wall)

A ‘White Lotus’ Mystery: Constant Hotel Dining

These decadent television characters can afford any meal, anywhere. Why do they stick with the same in-house menu?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-white-lotus-mystery-constant-hotel-dining-11669991738

My thought on dining at the resort every night is, it is all inclusive so all meals are already paid for so why not just eat there?  However, how could you ignore the culinary experiences that are just beyond the hotel gates? It is not like they are on a cruise ship and they are stuck, even just to venture out to go shopping, how lazy are these people?

[Milburn Stone]

Never mind.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Milburn Stone

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

on dining at the resort every night is, it is all inclusive so all meals are already paid for so why not just eat there?  However, how could you ignore the culinary experiences that are just beyond the hotel gates? It is not like they are on a cruise ship and they are stuck, even just to venture out to go shopping, how lazy are these people?

19 hours ago, divsc said:

There was just a big article in the WSJ about this very thing! (pay wall)
A ‘White Lotus’ Mystery: Constant Hotel Dining
These decadent television characters can afford any meal, anywhere. Why do they stick with the same in-house menu?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-white-lotus-mystery-constant-hotel-dining-11669991738

Expand  

Because my parents lived on the Big Island of Hawaii their last 30 years, I dined with them at both local eateries and once at the Kona Hilton, and the meal I had at the resort hotel was more superior in light years to any of the others.
Of course, mileage varies.😉
I appreciated the many but tiny plates of food.

I've never been on  a cruise (was supposed to go when the pandemic hit) but I'm guessing (perhaps wrongly) food stored on a ship would be closer to airplane food than it would be to food at a luxury resort on a beach. 

As for our not seeing the characters venturing out more from the White Lotus to shop, explore, etc., a couple of things:

1. Season 2 runs from Oct. 30 to mid December, but for the characters, only a week passes.
2. As others have mentioned, they paid A LOT to stay at The White Lotus.
3. The show title is White Lotus, so it makes sense that we mostly see what goes on at that location. Perhaps we missed a few quick shopping or selfie-taking trips.
4. In the opening scene for the season, Daphne raves to the newcomers: "The hotel's perfect, and the staff is excellent. The food is amazing. I've heard. And the wine...."

Edited December 6, 2022 by shapeshifter

[AzureOwl]

16 hours ago, DawnGame said:

Harper clearly either (a) had sex with Cameron or (b) pretended to to wind up Ethan.

It has to be b). There is no possible way for Harper to have timed things in a way that prevented Ethan from arriving right in the middle of them fucking. 

With the door latched it doesn't matter when Ethan arrives, he will jump to the same conclusion all the same.

[Milburn Stone]

13 hours ago, Verovee said:

Going out to eat can be hard when you don’t speak the language. The staff at the hotel all speak excellent English. In my experience Italians are less likely to speak good English as some other Europeans. So the guests at WL probably eat at the hotel...

I was lost somewhere in Tuscany. Trying to find our hotel, we came upon a bar on some road somewhere and said "Oh, thank God." I went in. I have no Italian and they, while extremely friendly, had no English. At all. Using my hands was no help in explaining where I was trying to go. I remained lost. When we finally found our hotel (don't ask me how, I couldn't tell you), we had that night's dinner there and all subsequent ones. It got boring but boring was better than crippling anxiety!

[shapeshifter]

5 minutes ago, AzureOwl said:

16 hours ago, DawnGame said:

Harper clearly either (a) had sex with Cameron or (b) pretended to to wind up Ethan.

It has to be b). There is no possible way for Harper to have timed things in a way that prevented Ethan from arriving right in the middle of them fucking. 

With the door latched it doesn't matter when Ethan arrives, he will jump to the same conclusion all the same.

Harper's side of the "conversation" with Ethan at the beginning of the episode before Harper went off with Cameron:

• I mean, we're not honest about...About how we're not attracted to each other... anymore. Or at least you're not attracted to me, you know? It's, like, I get it you're on top of the world right now. You could sleep with...whoever you want, and you're stuck with me and...Yeah, it makes sense that you'd wanna have sеx with an Italian hοοker. You're not getting any. I'm just saying that it's not the cheating that bothers me so much...as what it says about us. That maybe something has died. We are too young to be this old, Ethan. I'm sure you don't want that part of your life to be over. Do you?

Harper going off with Cameron seemed like she was trying to capture some of what Daphne and Cameron seem to have with regards to easy and playful sexuality, even after many years of marriage and 2 kids and a crap-ton of infidelity and game playing.
That is, Harper wants to see if Cameron finding her desirable will awaken something in Ethan towards her.

However, based on the earlier discussion about how Cameron would have sex with the girls Ethan liked in college, it doesn't seem like going off with Cameron would make Ethan want to continue to pursue a relationship with her. 
So maybe Harper is trying to see if just the threat of Cameron being with her but not actually having sex with her will be effective in awakening Ethan to her desirability.

But seemingly Ethan's history with Cameron is causing him to assumes sex really did happen between Cameron and Harper.

Fortunately(?) Harper probably also figured if her charade with Cameron didn't work to awaken Ethan, she would at least have revenge for the Condom In The Couch Cushion. 

But Ethan is now in crazy mode, which does not bode well for the finale's body count.

Ooo. Maybe Ethan tries to be heroic when Alessio or whomever is murdering someone in the water.

Hmmm. More likely they're bodies tossed off of Quentin's boat. 
That could have been Jack's leg.

[DawnGame]

Daphne.  She winced when she sat down at dinner and blamed her ‘masseuse’.  Who goes off for a massage for ‘a few hours’?  She was also asking Cameron more seriously and pointedly ‘what happened that night?’.

re. Quentin.  Despite the gun, it doesn’t seem likely a murder plot is planned by him (though maybe used by someone else).  Far too messy for Quentin, he’s far too clever.  Maybe it’s blackmail or some other kind of leverage as people have suggested. I somehow can’t see Tanya as the one who comes off worse, as she has a certain intelligence and intuition despite her flakiness*.  She’s too sympathetic a character I think to kill off (though who knows could be her swan song to complete her ‘story’ from series 1?)

The English boy.  I read that one of the prominent tattoos we see on him is ‘666’ in Roman numerals, the mark of the devil.  What was the black hole he mentioned that was so, so bad?  And this coming from a seemingly completely amoral person.  He seems a wreck of a character though, it’s hard to guess whether he’s malicious or an impulsive fool E.g. scaring Portia by jumping out at her, was it nasty or just childish?  He is the most disposable character.

It really all is a mystery.  I think these White Lotus series may become like the Agatha Christie films of the seventies eg Murder in the Orient Express, Murder Under the Sun.  

I am enjoying the very high production values of this series, from the sets to the music to the perfect-clothes-for-the-character (Harper’s dreary ensembles anyone?).  The acting, the humour. Also, the wisdom and fantastic dialogue dotted here and there.  It felt emotional and heartfelt when the diGrasso father said to the grandfather “you never taught me how to be intimate with a woman, you were selfish, and I learnt to be the same”.  (As I’ve said before I Just wish the director would lay off some of the unnecessary/gross sex scenes eg episode 5)

Only next time I think I’ll do a binge watch at the end, save dragging it out, as really, like others here, I just want a resolution now please.

* Quentin seemed to be slightly mocking Tanya at the opera with that “look” re. the princess of Sicily being in the neighbouring box.  In fact there is a Princess Maria Carolina of Bourbon Two Sicilies, even if it wasn’t her. 

Edited December 6, 2022 by DawnGame
Elaboration

[Madding crowd]

I feel like the reason we see the characters eat at the resort so often is so they can be in the scene with other characters. Even if they aren’t actually speaking to other guests, they are part of that particular scene and it’s probably easier to film than showing people at five different restaurants.

[snarts]

I have to weigh in on the dining on property vs. off.  I'd argue that most of the guests are well traveled and this is not their first time in Italy. White Lotus is a luxury all-inclusive beachside resort so it makes sense to me that many of them would want to stay on property and relax.  If they wanted to explore Sicily, they'd likely have stayed at a different hotel.

When I go somewhere new, I want to explore but when I just want to get away & relax, I tend to book an all-inclusive in the Caribbean/Mexico and yes, rarely leave the property (snorkeling aside). For the rich, their Sicily is my Cancun :)

I found & watched the Ep7 previews, my DVR cut them off.  I can never remember if preview discussion is allowed in episode threads so putting this in spoilers

Spoiler

Tanya makes it back on the boat and we see her staring at something in the water.

[peachmangosteen]

38 minutes ago, snarts said:

I can never remember if preview discussion is allowed in episode threads so putting this in spoilers

Previews are not considered spoilers on this site unless otherwise noted by a mod on the specific board, like in a mod announcement or mod post.

[jeansheridan]

One aspect of this ep and maybe this season is how Jennifer Coolidge is made fun of for being older & heavier. The Peppa Pig comment for example. The dead eyed sex scene with Greg. And in this ep the drugs and sex scene were uncomfortable and felt mean. She's a comic and I know willing to use her body for comic effect. Sucking the pasta, eating a bug on the Vespa ride, even her frozen face crying scene. But in this ep she seems genuinely in danger and her age and silliness seemed especially mocked. I don't feel like Michael Imperioli was made fun of in the same way in his sex scene with the two younger women. Jennifer Coolidge is a star and has agency so I am sure she was fine with the filming but the feeling tipped beyond satire to me in this ep. It felt cruel.  And despite Tonya's selfishness and narcissism, I want her to win against these creeps. 

[DawnGame]

^ interesting, JeanSheridan.  However I would add in the final sex scene with the Italian ‘gigolo’ when he is kneeling at her feet, the configuration seemed to be more her being worshipped as a woman  ….  In contrast to her cringey sex scene with Greg her husband of course, and the hedonistic rumpy pumpy of the escort girls with the men.

Edited December 6, 2022 by DawnGame

[Whimsy]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Because my parents lived on the Big Island of Hawaii their last 30 years, I dined with them at both local eateries and once at the Kona Hilton, and the meal I had at the resort hotel was more superior in light years to any of the others.
Of course, mileage varies.😉

My daughter worked as a pastry chef at the Four Seasons on the Big Island for a semester when she was in culinary school and let me tell you- best meal EVER!  I'd eat there every day if we could afford to.  Luckily, we knew a chef and got tons of food for free. ;) 

1 hour ago, DawnGame said:

Daphne.  She winced when she sat down at dinner and blamed her ‘masseuse’.  Who goes off for a massage for ‘a few hours’?  She was also asking Cameron more seriously and pointedly ‘what happened that night?’.

That was my initial thought, too.  A "few hours" for a massage?  Although, I do get 90 minute massages once a month due to some chronic pain, but at a resort that seems less likely. 

1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

I feel like the reason we see the characters eat at the resort so often is so they can be in the scene with other characters. Even if they aren’t actually speaking to other guests, they are part of that particular scene and it’s probably easier to film than showing people at five different restaurants.

Despite the (accurate) justifications that others have pointed out for their own travels and preferences, I really think that this is what it boils down to.  

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, DawnGame said:

Daphne.  She winced when she sat down at dinner and blamed her ‘masseuse’.  Who goes off for a massage for ‘a few hours’?  She was also asking Cameron more seriously and pointedly ‘what happened that night?’.

6 minutes ago, Whimsy said:

That was my initial thought, too.  A "few hours" for a massage?  Although, I do get 90 minute massages once a month due to some chronic pain, but at a resort that seems less likely. 

Yea, I thought Daphne's pain had to go somewhere but I don't really know where. We know she doesn't die.

When Quentin was talking about the cowboy, I was convinced it was Greg. But then people here were like 'that's dumb there's no way' and I convinced myself he wasn't so then I was both stunned and vindicated when they showed the pic of Quentin and Greg lol.

If one of Ethan/Cameron/Harper is one of the dead bodies, I really hope it's Ethan. He truly sucks and has no redeeming qualities. I actually like Harper and even Cameron tbh.

In the opening scene of this season, how many bodies did Rocco say there were? I can't remember if he said like several or a few or a couple.

[chocolatine]

46 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

In the opening scene of this season, how many bodies did Rocco say there were? I can't remember if he said like several or a few or a couple.

When Valentina asked him how many guests were dead, he said "I don't know ... a few."

[aghst]

4 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

My thought on dining at the resort every night is, it is all inclusive so all meals are already paid for so why not just eat there?  However, how could you ignore the culinary experiences that are just beyond the hotel gates? It is not like they are on a cruise ship and they are stuck, even just to venture out to go shopping, how lazy are these people?

I am not so sure hotels in Italy or for that matter Europe are all inclusive like they may be in Hawaii or the Carribean.

[Dminches]

20 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

New theory (completely spoiler-free):
Alessio (regardless of his true relation to Lucia) kills everyone who slept with her at the Hotel.
 

Wait, did Tarantino write the last episode? 😜

[Baltimore Betty]

4 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

When Valentina asked him how many guests were dead, he said "I don't know ... a few."

How do we know they were guests of the hotel?

[aghst]

3 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I was lost somewhere in Tuscany. Trying to find our hotel, we came upon a bar on some road somewhere and said "Oh, thank God." I went in. I have no Italian and they, while extremely friendly, had no English. At all. Using my hands was no help in explaining where I was trying to go. I remained lost. When we finally found our hotel (don't ask me how, I couldn't tell you), we had that night's dinner there and all subsequent ones. It got boring but boring was better than crippling anxiety!

Google Translate can help.  You can download languages so you can use it without a connection.

With a connection you can hold it over a printed menu and it will translate over the image coming through the camera.

You can also research ahead of time the typical dishes in a country or region.

For instance, if I ever make it to Denmark, I'd have articles like this on hand.

https://www.2foodtrippers.com/danish-food-favorites/
 

[aghst]

Harper thing to make Ethan jealous but didn't she say to Daphne that she and Ethan don't play games?

Someone on Reddit picked up that Jack drunkenly sang the Westham soccer team song.  Apparently, there is a history between Westham and Palermo, the fans scuffled after a match there.

Well Jack was in Cefalu, which is near Palermo, but him singing it there may be seen as an FU to the locals.

[chocolatine]

18 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

How do we know they were guests of the hotel?

I don't know, but that's what Valentina asked. She seemed to only care about how many of the bodies were guests, not how many bodies there were in total.

[DrSpaceman73]

The dining at the hotel I think cones down to two things 

One it saves on set costs and production costs rather than using different locations. 

Two the dining area is the way to bring all the people we are seeing together in the same place to interact and have their stories intertwine.  It could happen at the beach but the dining area is more enclosed and isolated. 

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

When Quentin was talking about the cowboy, I was convinced it was Greg. But then people here were like 'that's dumb there's no way' and I convinced myself he wasn't so then I was both stunned and vindicated when they showed the pic of Quentin and Greg lol.

I'll admit I didn't think they would go there.  It seemed too obvious and would require a lot of contrivance, in my view.

[Baltimore Betty]

38 minutes ago, aghst said:

Google Translate can help.  You can download languages so you can use it without a connection.

With a connection you can hold it over a printed menu and it will translate over the image coming through the camera.

You can also research ahead of time the typical dishes in a country or region.

For instance, if I ever make it to Denmark, I'd have articles like this on hand.

https://www.2foodtrippers.com/danish-food-favorites/
 

The open face sandwiches on spelt bread are the best! They have really good fish there too, I spent a couple of days wandering around Aarhus by myself, all I can say "tak," which means thank you, everyone spoke English, in Copenhagen I had no problem with the language either.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

When Valentina asked him how many guests were dead, he said "I don't know ... a few."

1 hour ago, Baltimore Betty said:

How do we know they were guests of the hotel?

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

I don't know, but that's what Valentina asked. She seemed to only care about how many of the bodies were guests, not how many bodies there were in total.

Because Valentina had put Rocco on beach duty, he was there at the moment Daphne found the first body.
By the time Valentina arrived on the scene, the policia were there too. 
IRL, it could easily turn out that more or fewer bodies were found than Rocco thought and/or that they were or were not guests of the hotel.
But since we are being fed clues, I am accepting Rocco's words that there were at least a few dead bodies of guests. 

[carrps]

O.k. I just watched L'Avventura. First, Monica Vitti and Jennifer Coolidge definitely have a bit of a resemblance. I hadn't seen Monica Vitti in ages, and I'd forgotten exactly how she looked. It's not a stretch that Tanya has her as a model.

Next, this movie and Antonioni's next two (with Vitti) are called his Trilogy of Ennui. And let me tell you that's not an exaggeration. Be warned.

Lastly, the penultimate scene was in front of a gateway, and I thought it looked very familiar. There was a plaque on the wall that said San Domenico Palace -- the site of the White Lotus! It was interesting seeing it from over 60 years ago. In black & white.

ETA: I forgot I wanted to mention Harper's wardrobe. I'd imagine as an attorney and especially one litigating sexual harassment cases, she'd want to be as buttoned up and conservative in her dress as possible. Maybe it carries over to her resort wear?

Edited December 6, 2022 by carrps
Forgot I wanted to mention this.

[Milburn Stone]

4 hours ago, aghst said:

Google Translate can help.  You can download languages so you can use it without a connection.

Good to know. 

This Tuscany trip, however, was one year before the invention of the smart phone! 😂

You don't know how many times I've wished in retrospect that phones with GPS had existed then.