S43.E08: Proposterous

[Whimsy]

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It is day 16 and castaways are getting to know their new tribe post merge. Also, hunger pangs are starting to take a toll and castaways must decide who will strike a deal with Jeff Probst to earn rice for their tribe.

Original airdate 11/9/22

[LadyChatts]

To quote the great Courtney Yates, “Jean-Roberte Ryan, he’s like the Susan Lucci of tribal council.  Like, his name’s always up there, but he never quite gets voted out.”

Seriously, Noelle and Owen gotta hang in there.  They are my last hope.  James is insufferable.  His reasoning for wanting to vote Owen out is stupid.  He’s hurt because he wrote his name down?  But is using the excuse that he follows the numbers (Gabler and Noelle did tonight, too) and that he flips (see exhibit Sami, Jesse, and Cody).  Also, Ryan seems to think he's way better at this game than he is.  

As much as I don’t like Sami and am souring on Karla, I have to admit they are playing a decent game.  I don’t think anyone realizes how well they are playing both sides. 

And I hope Jesse goes to use Jeanine’s idol but is told by Probst he can’t.  That’s major BS that he was able to hold onto that when she didn’t even give it to him in the first place.  Not liking this season at all anymore, and the two people I am rooting for are in the worst spots.

Edited November 10, 2022 by LadyChatts

[storyskip]

Anybody else catch that on the walk up to tribal Jeannine's torch was snuffed?

Looks like they had to re-shoot the walk up and someone in production forgot to re-light her torch.

[jsm1125]

I think Jeannine’s idol that Jesse now has (from her giving it to Dwight and then Dwight giving it to Jesse) is valid for Jesse to play. As far as I can tell, once someone gives another person an idol, that recipient is allowed to play it for whoever he or she wants.

I think it’s bizarre that nobody in that 7-person alliance even considered picking up Jeanine as a number. You’re afraid that she’s such a free agent? You could have changed that!

[pennben]

Boo!  Not feeling this season. 

[argrow]

They know they can write down names of white men, right? And not just women or POC men.

[KeithJ]

I don’t understand what Jeannine’s group was thinking.  They only needed one person to flip to vote out Ryan.  They seemed to get one but then they campaigned to everyone to vote Ryan?  You do that and the one you flipped is going to get talked out of it.

Then, what happened with Cassidy at the vote?  She was the only one besides Jeannine to cote Ryan.

[LadyChatts]

3 minutes ago, KeithJ said:

I don’t understand what Jeannine’s group was thinking.  They only needed one person to flip to vote out Ryan.  They seemed to get one but then they campaigned to everyone to vote Ryan?  You do that and the one you flipped is going to get talked out of it.

Then, what happened with Cassidy at the vote?  She was the only one besides Jeannine to cote Ryan.

Damage control?  Unless she was left out of the loop, but I can't believe that.  Maybe they want to try and pin the vote on Owen.  Which, Owen's already a target, so I don't understand what that would prove.  

[nlkm9]

We had stupid weather break in…can someone tell me about the idol stuff?

[LadyChatts]

18 minutes ago, nlkm9 said:

We had stupid weather break in…can someone tell me about the idol stuff?

Last TC, Jeanine gave Dwight her idol for safe keeping because of James's KIP advantage.  What we didn't see was that Dwight gave it to Jesse to further hide it from James, but no one knows about that.  So Jesse has possession of Jeanine's idol, but as far as everyone else knows (including poor Jeanine) her idol got voted off with Dwight.

Whether it's still valid or not is another story.  Jeanine didn't exactly give it away for someone else to use, and she only gave it to Dwight.  He was the one who gave it to Jesse without telling anyone.  I don't know why he didn't tell her.  If he survived the vote she would have asked for it back.  It's not like Dwight could have taken it back from Jesse and kept it for himself.

Edited November 10, 2022 by LadyChatts

[Carey]

Yeah, Dwight may have had some explaining to do if he has survived.

Speaking of survival, looks like James was successful in that in terms of going for Jeanine when the newer move was for Ryan.  However, it was sorta risky since they could have booted James for not being on board.

Looks like a "war" may break out between Owen and James.

Meanwhile, I fear for Cassidy's survival, to some extent

[Guest]

This season kinda blows. It feels like a very going through the motions kind of game, and while nobody's thoroughly hateful or anything, it's harder each week to grab onto anyone to root for. I'm going with Cassidy by default more than anything, with Owen and Noelle as backups, I guess?

[LadyChatts]

2 minutes ago, tracyscott76 said:

This season kinda blows. It feels like a very going through the motions kind of game, and while nobody's thoroughly hateful or anything, it's harder each week to grab onto anyone to root for. I'm going with Cassidy by default more than anything, with Owen and Noelle as backups, I guess?

Yeah, I forgot to add Cassidy to my previous post (I thought she voted out Jeanine but saw she did vote for Ryan).  And she made some really valid points tonight so at least she might recognize where she stands in the game.  Those 3 (Owen, Noelle, Cassidy) would be my top 3 right now.  There's a big gap where I'd put Karla in 4th, because I'm still not sure what I think of her (I like her, but something kind of bugs).  By absolute default and with a big, long, huge, dinosaur size gap, Gabler and Cody would round out my top 6.  Sami, James, Ryan, and Jesse can be the next 4 to go in any order.

Sadly, I think Noelle and Owen are on borrowed time.  When the times comes for the 7 to go at each other, I hope it's at least entertaining.

[North of Eden]

My favorite is out so my investment drops by 50%. 

James trying to gaslight Owen was ridiculous. I was neutral on him before and now I'm starting not to like him.

Cassidy claims her game is low key-how about invisible. I feel like she just fell into being part of the 7 and is hardly a major player.

Dwight loses points rectoactively...my girl Jeannine entrusted you with that idol. Giving it to someone else for 'safekeeping' was very untoward. He needed to guard it with his life if he was serious about giving it back to her after the tribal and then just to cavlierly hand it off.

Not sure what Jeff's nonsense about a social contract was other than clearly he misses being a talk show host but that venture was always destined to be a nuclear bomb. Like it or not few can escape their signature role/claim to fame with very few execeptions like Ed McMahon was able to be succesfull on The Tonight Show and Star Search as well but I digress...

I really, really was hoping all the hunger talk was going to be a transition to the beloved 'Gross Food' challenge missing for many a year now which I've said before is likely a victim of it not being PC to present other cultures food as disgusting and like I've always said before as well....other cultures can feel free to mock us for the Wendy's Triple Decker Baconator if it will give us an episode where someone has to eat a live pupa or some other nightmarish meal.

[TVFan1]

Yeah, I'm not really feeling this season much either. Now Jeanine goes, not shocking at this point. 

Jeanine could have been safe if Jeanine, Owen, Noelle, Noelle using her steal a vote, Gabler, and Cassidy voted the same way.

Rooting for Noelle and Cassidy now. Owen is the only guy left that is actually likable.

[slaterain]

I second the earlier comment about how they should realize they can vote out some white men too. Ugh.I was hoping the underdogs could turn it around. I also hate the whole justification because she is smart. She’s been on the outs for multiple votes and hasn’t won a challenge so it seems like silly justification to protect their strong bro alliance. I’m losing interest as all the ones I like are getting sent home. 
james telling Owen that he’s protected at the challenge made me instantly dislike him. I wish that they had targeted him instead of Ryan and with more subtlety. 
ryan I felt bad for until his condescending comment on how Jeanine should learn to become more of a leader when voting. Ugh. 
just ugh. 

Edited November 10, 2022 by slaterain

[GaT]

Why do people think that because they can catch fish nobody will vote them out? It's so stupid, of course they'll vote you out. In fact, maybe even be more likely to because you're making yourself valuable.

Edited November 10, 2022 by GaT

[30 Helens]

I got excited for a brief moment when the underdogs were talking about banding together. It was giving me Big Brother “Leftovers” vibes. Just without the follow through.

At least now Jeanine can go get some treatment for her chin. I hope she doesn’t have to live with a nasty scar.

I am so disconnected from this season that I was actually talking over a lot of the episode. That used to be sacrilege. 

RME at Owen being labeled as “sneaky”. Because of course, he’s Asian. (The same label was applied to Jeanine later on.) If you have to be racist, at least be original racist. (PS- Don’t be racist.)

[violet and green]

So pumped Owen won immunity! I wish they'd got together and voted James and his KIP out; especially after he called Owen a snake and then pulled a snake move on Owen! No, bro, you're safe...

Am half-glad it was Jeanine as that wound on her chin looks nasty and needs treatment I think. I noticed all their hair looked freshly washed and shiny at tribal, which is weird. I still quite like the ones I like, but when all you can think about is hair it is not a gripping tribal.

[Haleth]

This season is just not doing it for me.  I don't dislike any of the players, but I'm not all that excited about any of them either.  They are all kind of meh.  And all the challenges are repeats so they are boring too.

9 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

ast TC, Jeanine gave Dwight her idol for safe keeping because of James's KIP advantage.  What we didn't see was that Dwight gave it to Jesse to further hide it from James, but no one knows about that.  So Jesse has possession of Jeanine's idol, but as far as everyone else knows (including poor Jeanine) her idol got voted off with Dwight.

That must have been at the beginning?  I missed the first 10 mins or so.  At least something interesting happened.  If Jesse can keep his mouth shut about this (and it's still valid) I'll be rooting for him.  (After the first one or two episodes I keep forgetting he's there.  I keep forgetting Noelle too.)

[Taeolas]

That reveal that Jesse had Jeanine's idol was probably one of the strongest moments of the ep IMO. We've been going on about how Dwight killed that idol (and Survivor even confirmed that Dwight couldn't hand it off after Tribal and all that), and now we find out the idol IS still alive. 

After that it was just a basic episode. Good on Owen for reading the tribe and sticking out for the Immunity Challenge (and winning it).

Jeanine clearly overplayed her plans. Targeting Ryan was a good idea, but it feels like that went into a game of Telephone on her, she pulled a few onto her side, but it seemed everyone got the idea of having a Tribe Unity vote so that everyone voted the same way, and that seems to have taken the discussion from Jeanine to Ryan and then back to Jeanine. 

One thing that I'm finding interesting, is that while there are a lot of Idols and Advantages floating around, they only seem to come into play pre-TC. The TC's themselves have been Idol/Advantage free so far. Probably because there's a strong alliance in play picking off the remainders. I suspect we'll probably get a TC in a few eps with everything coming into play at once, probably when the alliance inevitably shatters. 

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, Taeolas said:

Jeanine clearly overplayed her plans. Targeting Ryan was a good idea, but it feels like that went into a game of Telephone on her, she pulled a few onto her side, but it seemed everyone got the idea of having a Tribe Unity vote so that everyone voted the same way, and that seems to have taken the discussion from Jeanine to Ryan and then back to Jeanine. 

The underdogs were kind of in a bind there. I can't see a way that they could have done that without it turning into a game of Telephone. They needed Sami, for one thing, who is a dubious ally at best, but they also needed someone else from the "7" to get a majority. We saw Jeanine correctly zeroing in on Cassidy as one most likely to want Ryan out, but it was unlikely that Cassidy (or whoever they went to) would want to go totally rogue and burn their alliance completely; they would naturally want to bring others in on it. So I don't know if it was really overplaying - there wasn't really a stealth option as far as I can tell.

[Lady Calypso]

This episode was better than last week's episode, but it still had its issues. We do get a better idea of why Jeanine was voted out, which is better than several other boots this season, but it also brings in more questions on why Jeanine was considered more dangerous than Ryan as a player. Jeanine screwed up her game several times over. Nobody seemed readily on her side and it was clear, with how often she's been out of the loop, that she's not THAT savvy of a player (especially when she ran around, trying to flip votes and tipping everyone off). Granted, neither is Ryan, so I get the choice between the two, to an extent. I think it's just been frustrating to see the boot order and seeing the very obvious "outsiders of the alliance will get picked off, and then the bottom of the alliance will". And I hope I am completely wrong, but I'm not so sure I am.

I think that these players are playing scared, which is making for some very frustrating boots. It's leading to the women being picked off as easy targets (or the men who are on the outs) and leading to this major alliance potentially sticking together for far too long. We already are seeing the dynamics within the alliance (Jesse/Cody at the top, Karla/James somewhere below them, Cassidy/Sami/Ryan at the bottom) so it's almost something we can see as the pecking order.

I also think this season has been severely lacking in tribe and player dynamics. We have NOT seen many bonds form beyond Jesse/Cody and Karla/James. We're barely seeing alliances form with very little explanation as to why. We don't know why some are at the bottom. We're really getting nothing of substance and we don't know why these people like each other...or if they do at all.

James was frustrating. I get his point of view on his targets (Owen and then Jeanine). I just didn't like how he was talking about Owen (yes, he tried to get what he wanted by trying for Owen to sit out; he was still condescending about it), and I didn't love James' argument for Jeanine over Ryan to Cassidy (she was making good points that actually knocked down his own points). But I feel like I haven't connected with 90% of the cast or have disliked them.

It was fun to see the reveal of Jeanine's idol in Jesse's pocket. It was nice to finally get more Owen after him being invisible since the beginning episodes. The challenge was heaps better than last week's half hour challenge. So there were some good moments here and there. Stronger episode than last, still a weak season overall.

[seacliffsal]

I think that the 7 alliance was concerned about voting one of their own too early.  It would put a target on those who voted for Ryan instead of Jeannine, and could cause others to view those who worked against their own alliance as untrustworthy.  Probably way too early to turn on themselves.  BUT, I wish they had and I wish it had been James voted out-"Owen, you're protected..." yeah, no.  I think Ryan is way over-playing because he has physically overcome so many obstacles and probably just can't believe that he is on Survivor.  But, yeah, don't be condescending to others-it is NEVER a good look.

As to whether or not Jesse can use Jeannine's Dwight's his idol, when the person who holds the KIP advantage asks someone if they have one of the items listed, they have to honestly answer yes/no (Jeff has said they have to be honest).  So, if James had asked Jeannine and she answered no because she gave it to Dwight, then she would have given up her rights to the idol in order to be able to answer no.  Otherwise, it would be "yes, but someone else is holding it..."  Therefore, I think she gave ownership of her idol to Dwight (who would most likely have given it back to her later), who then gave it to Jesse.  So, IMO it is now Jesse's idol.  Wasn't there concern when this plan was developed last season (handing ownership to someone else in order to avoid the KIP) that the secondary holder would not give it back?  We shall see...

Although not the outcome I wanted, I am glad that Jeannine was able to go get some better health care for her injuries and that she would also be able to eat something substantial.

[tvfanatic13]

Why didn't Jeanine play the SITD? Is that still in play at the jury phase? 

[iMonrey]

Count me among the many who are bored with this season. Cody and Jesse seem to be running the show and I don't like either one of them. In fact, there's no one I really, really like, there are just a few I can stand more than the others.

Quote

I don’t understand what Jeannine’s group was thinking.  They only needed one person to flip to vote out Ryan.  They seemed to get one but then they campaigned to everyone to vote Ryan? 

I think because the ones they approached in the group of seven said they'd go along with it if everyone else in their alliance agreed. Karla, Cassidy and Sami weren't brave enough to go against that alliance and vote with Jeanine, Owen and Noelle. And I think that's largely because Karla and James think they are at the top of that alliance, but I don't think they are. 

Quote

I also think this season has been severely lacking in tribe and player dynamics. We have NOT seen many bonds form beyond Jesse/Cody and Karla/James. We're barely seeing alliances form with very little explanation as to why. We don't know why some are at the bottom. We're really getting nothing of substance and we don't know why these people like each other...or if they do at all.

Well there's only so much they can fit into an hour show and they devote most of that time to idols, advantages, and other gimmicks, plus American Ninja Warrior-style challenges and Jeff Probst blathering on and on and on.

What we get instead is a weekly spotlight on a particular player, this week it was Owen and his backstory about being adopted and not fitting in. I guess that helps us get to know Owen but it doesn't really explain the intertribal dynamics you're talking about.

I just wish they would vote out James so I don't have to listen to his voice anymore.

Edited November 10, 2022 by iMonrey

[Taeolas]

As  far as idols and advantages go, I don't think Survivor has ever really 'played' with the ownership rules too much. Sometimes they will say it is non-transferable. But they've never really had anything like "I own this idol but Person X is holding it."

The rules have always been if you give the idol/advantage to someone else, then it is now theirs to do with as they please, including passing on to someone else or using it at Tribal.  And you're trusting that person to give it back to you because there is no "Take-backsy" rules either. 

So Jeanine/Dwight now Jesse's idol should be live. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

11 hours ago, GaT said:

Why do people think that because they can catch fish nobody will vote them out? It's so stupid, or course they'll vote you out. In fact, maybe even be more likely to because you're making yourself valuable.

I don't know if Ryan thinks nobody will vote him out, just that he hopes no one will.

Obviously getting fish to starving people is going to create some level of endearment, which may make people choose a different target or may make someone focus on him.

8 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

RME at Owen being labeled as “sneaky”. Because of course, he’s Asian. (The same label was applied to Jeanine later on.) If you have to be racist, at least be original racist. (PS- Don’t be racist.)

Not to downplay the harmfulness of the Asian=sneaky stereotype, but an inherent part of the game (or at least, of playing the game with a reasonable shot at $1 mil) is being sneaky and the sneaky label gets thrown around to players of all races. I remember it most applied to Shan a few seasons back. 

1 hour ago, seacliffsal said:

As to whether or not Jesse can use Jeannine's Dwight's his idol, when the person who holds the KIP advantage asks someone if they have one of the items listed, they have to honestly answer yes/no (Jeff has said they have to be honest).  So, if James had asked Jeannine and she answered no because she gave it to Dwight, then she would have given up her rights to the idol in order to be able to answer no.  Otherwise, it would be "yes, but someone else is holding it..."  Therefore, I think she gave ownership of her idol to Dwight (who would most likely have given it back to her later), who then gave it to Jesse.  So, IMO it is now Jesse's idol.  Wasn't there concern when this plan was developed last season (handing ownership to someone else in order to avoid the KIP) that the secondary holder would not give it back?  We shall see...

Although not the outcome I wanted, I am glad that Jeannine was able to go get some better health care for her injuries and that she would also be able to eat something substantial.

I don't know if there's that sort of formal legal structure behind the Knowledge Is Power advantage. The first time it was unveiled, Liana tried to use it to get the idol she knew Xander had. But Xander knew about Liana's advantage and was able to give his idol to Tiffany for safekeeping. Tiffany gave it back to him.  A similar thing happened last season

Now could either of the new owners have said, "Finders keepers, losers weepers" and not returned it? We don't really know if the rules of Survivor would have allowed for it, but probably. One thing is for sure: it would make a massive enemy out of the original owner and the consequences would almost certainly not be worth trying to pull off that level of double-cross.

[Steph Sometimes]

I'm joining the chorus of people who can't really get into this season. Despite all the interesting backstories, I just don't find a lot of these people that interesting to watch. I was thinking of last season and those players like Maryanne and Omar and Lindsay and Drea and Jonathan and how fun they were to watch, and there really isn't anyone like that this season. I know I like Owen and Karla, and I don't like Gabler or Sami, but it's just sort of meh to me as a whole.

Maybe it'll pick up a little bit.

[DEL901]

1 hour ago, Steph Sometimes said:

I'm joining the chorus of people who can't really get into this season. Despite all the interesting backstories, I just don't find a lot of these people that interesting to watch. I was thinking of last season and those players like Maryanne and Omar and Lindsay and Drea and Jonathan and how fun they were to watch, and there really isn't anyone like that this season. I know I like Owen and Karla, and I don't like Gabler or Sami, but it's just sort of meh to me as a whole.

Maybe it'll pick up a little bit.

There’s the problem right there…3/5 of those you mentioned are Canadian.  Not a single Canuck this year and the show is suffering, LOL.  (The previous winner was a Canadian too.) 

[LadyChatts]

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

This episode was better than last week's episode, but it still had its issues. We do get a better idea of why Jeanine was voted out, which is better than several other boots this season, but it also brings in more questions on why Jeanine was considered more dangerous than Ryan as a player. Jeanine screwed up her game several times over. Nobody seemed readily on her side and it was clear, with how often she's been out of the loop, that she's not THAT savvy of a player (especially when she ran around, trying to flip votes and tipping everyone off). Granted, neither is Ryan, so I get the choice between the two, to an extent. I think it's just been frustrating to see the boot order and seeing the very obvious "outsiders of the alliance will get picked off, and then the bottom of the alliance will". And I hope I am completely wrong, but I'm not so sure I am.

I think that these players are playing scared, which is making for some very frustrating boots. It's leading to the women being picked off as easy targets (or the men who are on the outs) and leading to this major alliance potentially sticking together for far too long. We already are seeing the dynamics within the alliance (Jesse/Cody at the top, Karla/James somewhere below them, Cassidy/Sami/Ryan at the bottom) so it's almost something we can see as the pecking order.

I also think this season has been severely lacking in tribe and player dynamics. We have NOT seen many bonds form beyond Jesse/Cody and Karla/James. We're barely seeing alliances form with very little explanation as to why. We don't know why some are at the bottom. We're really getting nothing of substance and we don't know why these people like each other...or if they do at all.

James was frustrating. I get his point of view on his targets (Owen and then Jeanine). I just didn't like how he was talking about Owen (yes, he tried to get what he wanted by trying for Owen to sit out; he was still condescending about it), and I didn't love James' argument for Jeanine over Ryan to Cassidy (she was making good points that actually knocked down his own points). But I feel like I haven't connected with 90% of the cast or have disliked them.

I think my favorite part of the exchange between James, Cassidy, and Karla debating between Ryan and Jeanine was Cassidy making the very valid point of Ryan being athletic in challenges, and therefore a threat.  James: "Jeanine might be athletic."  That part did get me to laugh a little.  I can appreciate someone trying to stick to their guns and find anything to back it up, but that's reaching.  And honestly, unless Ryan is holding back in the challenges, I have yet to see why he's such a threat.  Just because he's big and muscular?  

I also agree about some of these guys playing a scared game.  Sami summed it up when he said it might be easier to just stick to the Jeanine plan and have everyone come back happy.  Like that's a requirement in this game, that everyone has to be in agreement with the vote so no one has their feelings hurt.  I'm not sure what kind of game Sami is playing, but he seems to be in the worst spot in the alliance.  I think he's trying to keep up good will with the other side, either for jury management purposes or to have options, but those options are getting smaller.  Now it's just Noelle and her steal a vote, Gabler, and Owen.  Even with Sami they'd still need someone to flip.

As for James, he's taking things too personally.  It seemed like the only reason he wanted to target Owen was because Owen wrote his name down.  That's the game.  And then he tried to justify by saying he follows the numbers and flips.  Which again, is the game.  I actually liked him at one point, but he can be the next to go.  I also hope the rest of the season isn't a Pagonging of Noelle/Gabler/Owen and then the bottom feeders of the 7 alliance, which will likely be Cody/Jesse/Sami.  At least Sami.  I do wonder if James and Ryan would flip on Karla and Cassidy and align with Cody/Jesse, but I think Sami is in the worst spot of the 7.

[eel21788]

4 hours ago, tvfanatic13 said:

Why didn't Jeanine play the SITD? Is that still in play at the jury phase? 

Have we even entered the jury phase? Jeff hasn't mentioned that anyone voted off is now on the jury, nor have they walked a jury in at the beginning of tribal council. 

[violet and green]

5 minutes ago, eel21788 said:

Have we even entered the jury phase? Jeff hasn't mentioned that anyone voted off is now on the jury, nor have they walked a jury in at the beginning of tribal council. 

Yes, he said Jeanine was the first member of the jury.

[HurricaneVal]

Man, Dwight really did Jeanine a dirty last week.  I mean, this is Survivor.  She did hand off her idol.  However, she was expecting to get it back...  I kind of missed how that handoff happened, did Jesse manipulate it from Dwight, or was Dwight really not as closely allied with Jeanine as Jeanine thought he was?  And if Jesse manipulated it from Dwight, did he do that with the knowledge that Dwight was going home?  If that's the case, Jesse is shaping up to being a really sneaky player--and I mean that in the good Survivor "outwit" way.

If this seven person alliance is going to roll straight to the final seven, that's going to make for some really boring episodes.  James did not get such a great edit last night.  Yeah, he's the leader of that seven person alliance, but he's being edited to be the condescending, arrogant, asshole leader of the seven person alliance.  That conversation with Cassidy (who?  seriously, did they add an extra person when I wasn't looking?) was so frustrating.  She was right, and James was wrong, and he totally dismissed her arguments.  Maybe the editing is foreshadowing for his being so unsufferable that his alliance mates vote him out just to be shut of him.

I just wanted to hug Owen last night. 

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, HurricaneVal said:

Man, Dwight really did Jeanine a dirty last week.  I mean, this is Survivor.  She did hand off her idol.  However, she was expecting to get it back...  I kind of missed how that handoff happened, did Jesse manipulate it from Dwight, or was Dwight really not as closely allied with Jeanine as Jeanine thought he was?  And if Jesse manipulated it from Dwight, did he do that with the knowledge that Dwight was going home?  If that's the case, Jesse is shaping up to being a really sneaky player--and I mean that in the good Survivor "outwit" way.

All we got was some quick flashback footage of Dwight handing it off, and a voiceover from Jesse saying that Dwight got desperate and gave it to him before TC. Nothing from Jesse about him manipulating Dwight, so it might have just been lucky for him.

39 minutes ago, HurricaneVal said:

That conversation with Cassidy ([ED: snipping this part because c'mon folks, Cassidy's been visible since the Lindsay vote-off, and certainly the Geo vote-off]) was so frustrating.  She was right, and James was wrong, and he totally dismissed her arguments.  Maybe the editing is foreshadowing for his being so unsufferable that his alliance mates vote him out just to be shut of him.

I'm hoping that conversation between James and Cassidy, and Cassidy's monologue about how the women were being voted off, was foreshadowing both James' downfall and her eventual success. But I've already lost Justine, Elie, and Jeanine, so fuck me and my hopes, I guess lol

[Taeolas]

6 hours ago, tvfanatic13 said:

Why didn't Jeanine play the SITD? Is that still in play at the jury phase? 

I think SITD is still available, but no one is stupid enough to play it any more, so it's not being mentioned any more. 

When Jeanine went to cast her vote, the camera seemed to focus on the container next to her as if implying she might consider playing it, but she didn't hesitate at all. 

[nlkm9]

20 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Yeah, I forgot to add Cassidy to my previous post (I thought she voted out Jeanine but saw she did vote for Ryan).  And she made some really valid points tonight so at least she might recognize where she stands in the game.  Those 3 (Owen, Noelle, Cassidy) would be my top 3 right now.  There's a big gap where I'd put Karla in 4th, because I'm still not sure what I think of her (I like her, but something kind of bugs).  By absolute default and with a big, long, huge, dinosaur size gap, Gabler and Cody would round out my top 6.  Sami, James, Ryan, and Jesse can be the next 4 to go in any order.

Sadly, I think Noelle and Owen are on borrowed time.  When the times comes for the 7 to go at each other, I hope it's at least entertaining.

It pains me to look at karlas nose septum ring. Otherwise i love her !!!

[KaveDweller]

11 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

The underdogs were kind of in a bind there. I can't see a way that they could have done that without it turning into a game of Telephone. They needed Sami, for one thing, who is a dubious ally at best, but they also needed someone else from the "7" to get a majority. We saw Jeanine correctly zeroing in on Cassidy as one most likely to want Ryan out, but it was unlikely that Cassidy (or whoever they went to) would want to go totally rogue and burn their alliance completely; they would naturally want to bring others in on it. So I don't know if it was really overplaying - there wasn't really a stealth option as far as I can tell.

Noelle has a steal a vote. 

So Noelle, Owen, Jeannine, Gabler, and Sammi plus the stolen vote would equal 6 votes. The other 6 people would only have 5 votes. 

Once Sammi was in and they should have been set, but they had to complicate things by trying to convince everyone else to go along with the Ryan vote.

[HurricaneVal]

"Proposterous" was embarrassingly awesome so I get it why it is the episode name, but...I've just gotta think "Skip to My Lou" was in hot contention too.  If there is a god...I'm sure...somebody...somewhere...in production has made a GIF meme of Jesse skipping to his lou and it is in hot rotation back and forth in internal Survivor production text messages and IM messages.

[SVNBob]

On 11/9/2022 at 8:52 PM, LadyChatts said:

Last TC, Jeanine gave Dwight her idol for safe keeping because of James's KIP advantage.  What we didn't see was that Dwight gave it to Jesse to further hide it from James, but no one knows about that.  So Jesse has possession of Jeanine's idol, but as far as everyone else knows (including poor Jeanine) her idol got voted off with Dwight.

Whether it's still valid or not is another story.  Jeanine didn't exactly give it away for someone else to use, and she only gave it to Dwight.  He was the one who gave it to Jesse without telling anyone.  I don't know why he didn't tell her.  If he survived the vote she would have asked for it back.  It's not like Dwight could have taken it back from Jesse and kept it for himself.

It's valid.  Jesse also said in a TH that he still had the idol Cody found (because he hadn't asked for it back yet), and the chyron with his name came up saying "TWO immunity idols."

Also, if the idol were dead, they wouldn't have shown the flashback of Jesse getting it in this episode.  They'd have saved that for the moment when he tried to play it, only to find out right after that it was dead.  That one-two punch would be better TV than punch now, punch later.

14 hours ago, Taeolas said:

As  far as idols and advantages go, I don't think Survivor has ever really 'played' with the ownership rules too much. Sometimes they will say  it is non-transferable. But they've never really had anything like "I own this idol but Person X is holding it."

The rules have always been if you give the idol/advantage to someone else, then it is now theirs to do with as they please, including passing on to someone else or using it at Tribal.  And you're trusting that person to give it back to you because there is no "Take-backsy" rules either. 

So Jeanine/Dwight now Jesse's idol should be live. 

And that's the key point that most people are forgetting.  Advantages have to say their power is non-transferable for it to not be transferable.  Otherwise, giving someone else that advantage not only confers possession but ownership.  (Possession is the holding of the item; ownership is the ability to use it.)  So as soon as Jeanine gave Dwight the yellow bead idol, it became Dwight's idol to do with as he pleased.  Then, once Dwight gave that idol to Jesse, it became Jesse's idol to do with as he pleased.  It so happened it pleased him to keep the idol and vote out the only person who knew he had it.

14 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I don't know if there's that sort of formal legal structure behind the Knowledge Is Power advantage. The first time it was unveiled, Liana tried to use it to get the idol she knew Xander had. But Xander knew about Liana's advantage and was able to give his idol to Tiffany for safekeeping. Tiffany gave it back to him.  A similar thing happened last season

Now could either of the new owners have said, "Finders keepers, losers weepers" and not returned it? We don't really know if the rules of Survivor would have allowed for it, but probably. One thing is for sure: it would make a massive enemy out of the original owner and the consequences would almost certainly not be worth trying to pull off that level of double-cross.

True on both counts.   Practically everyone that was given an idol (or piece of idol needed to activate it) has returned it, but never had to.  The only counter-example I can think of is from HvHvH, when Lauren gave Dr. Mike half of an idol she found/earned.  But instead of keeping it, he threw it into the fire at TC and voided the idol, which helped her get voted out.

But the usual method of preventing from having to return an idol to the previous owner is to vote them out.  Which finally gives us a good reason for Jesse (and Cody by extension) flipping on Dwight in the previous episode.

[Chicago Redshirt]

14 hours ago, Taeolas said:

I think SITD is still available, but no one is stupid enough to play it any more, so it's not being mentioned any more. 

I don't know if it's an issue of stupidity so much. As it turned out, it was literally the only option for this week's bootee to stay alive. She had to know that she didn't have the numbers on her side. 

So why not grasp onto the 17 percent chance for survival? 

[HurricaneVal]

I suspect Jeanine knew that would only buy her enough time to get to be voted out at the next tribal council.  Sure, she could win immunity, or maybe find another idol, and prolong her stay.  But it would be a miserable stay, James would make sure of that.

You could see it in her eyes and body language, she was utterly defeated and had no hope.  The first one in at Ponderosa seems to set the tone at the lodge, I hope she cheers up or that's going to be one depressed jury. 

I hope her scar heals, I feel so badly for her every time I see her face.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, HurricaneVal said:

I suspect Jeanine knew that would only buy her enough time to get to be voted out at the next tribal council.  Sure, she could win immunity, or maybe find another idol, and prolong her stay.  But it would be a miserable stay, James would make sure of that.

You could see it in her eyes and body language, she was utterly defeated and had no hope.  The first one in at Ponderosa seems to set the tone at the lodge, I hope she cheers up or that's going to be one depressed jury. 

I hope her scar heals, I feel so badly for her every time I see her face.

That confessional where her voice was trembling and tears streaming down her face was pretty devastating. Certainly there have been people who have been miserable on the bottom before, but it must be especially difficult when your only hope is working with the likes of Sami and Gabler - especially Sami, who after every vote is all "I had to do it, don't you see - but this time we'll work together, I promise!"  And you have no choice but to go along with him because no matter who else you try to get to vote with you (e.g. Cassidy), you need Sami to make it work. And on top of that, you always seem to be one of the only ones of your "allies" who didn't know who was getting voted out, up to and including when that person was you.

He's well within his rights to do what he's doing, mind you, but it still had to be demoralizing for her.

Edited November 11, 2022 by tracyscott76

[peachmangosteen]

20 minutes ago, HurricaneVal said:

The first one in at Ponderosa seems to set the tone at the lodge, I hope she cheers up or that's going to be one depressed jury. 

That reminds me, do we know if we’ll be getting jury Ponderosa this season? They’ve been doing a sort of version of it with the pre-jury boots on TikTok. I hope they at least continue that.

[Cotypubby]

On 11/9/2022 at 9:52 PM, LadyChatts said:

Whether it's still valid or not is another story. 

I can't see how or why it wouldn't be. 🤷‍♀️ That's the chance you take when you give your idol to someone. No one can take it from you without your permission, but if you give it away of your own free will, that person can do with it as they see fit. Haven't there been many times where someone was convinced to give their idol to someone to "hold on to for safekeeping" and then immediately turned around and voted that person out?

[Lantern7]

Why am I still watching?

It's a Catch-22 for the show. Things are getting less interesting, but most of the new gimmicks fall flat. It's great that the dumb stuff gets trimmed away (for example, Probst talking into the camera like Johnny Knoxville before a stunt), but the game itself is uninteresting. Aside from only two guys getting voted out out of nine (had to check Wikipedia) and folks wondering why the white guys are still in there (Gabler is a certified sacrificial goat; don't ask me about Cody and Sami) . . . . well, Survivor has nothin' for us.

No one playing advantages helps to amp up the irritation. We see these guys blunder into immunity and/or advantages, but it's like Probst shouldn't ask if anyone has something to play before the votes are announced.

And it's not like these people are huge assholes. Granted, my bar has been set by The Challenge, but they're not that irritating. Occasionally, we get backstory (I don't think it gratuitous and/or cloying at all), but I don't feel invested. I think Maryanne was an exception to the post-40 seasons, and not the rule. Meanwhile, there's also a lack of irritants on The Amazing Race), but they're mostly still interesting to watch.

I watched the episode this week after seeing The Challenge "live" and TAR on DVR. I really should start watching this when i get home on Thursday night.

[Haleth]

18 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

That reminds me, do we know if we’ll be getting jury Ponderosa this season? They’ve been doing a sort of version of it with the pre-jury boots on TikTok. I hope they at least continue that.

I really missed the videos from Ponderosa last season.   In other seasons they were more fun than the actual show, and probably would be this season too with this cast.

[bankerchick]

I'll be the first to admit that once a season is over, I pretty much forget everything that happened, often including who won.  Except for perhaps the Edgardo boot.  I'll never forget that😄.  But I was reading the Live Chat thread and there seem to be several people on there who thought for sure Jeanine's idol would be invalid for Jesse to use.  They also seemed to provide examples of times when people tried to play advantages but Jeff disallowed it because they idol properly belonged to someone else who had not given it to them.  For example, from @LadyChatts

'I still think that Jesse wouldn't be allowed to play Jeanine's idol.  I can't remember the circumstances, but when Sarah gave Cirie the legacy advantage for safe keeping or a good will gesture to hang onto, and Cirie tried to play it, Jeff said she couldn't since Sarah didn't officially give it to her to use.'    Or this from @KaveDweller

'Is Jesse allowed to just keep the idol? I remember that season someone tried to use Sarah's idol and she was all, "I just gave it to you to hold, you can't use it." And Jeff agreed.'

I have no memory of this so don't really know the circumstances, but it does make me wonder whether Jesse will be able to use the idol.  Imagine the look on Jeanine's face when he tries!

[LadyChatts]

I think what confused me about the idol is that Jeanine gave it to Dwight for safe keeping (not to keep and use) and then he turned around and gave it to Jesse without Jeanine's permission (and I can't figure out why he didn't tell her).  So while stealing someone's idol outright isn't allowed, as we've been told, I feel like this is a gray area the show maybe never thought about.  I wonder if there will be new rules about idol possession and use after this season.  

I was thinking about when Cirie went to use Sarah's legacy advantage, but I forgot there was specific writing on that that forbid Cirie from using it.  We don't have that with the idols.

[peachmangosteen]

29 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

So while stealing someone's idol outright isn't allowed, as we've been told, I feel like this is a gray area the show maybe never thought about.  I wonder if there will be new rules about idol possession and use after this season.  

Yea, I figure they probably never even thought about this and will likely make a new rule. I think, since it's the first time, they'll end up letting Jesse use it.