S01.E05: We Light the Way

[racked]

19 minutes ago, magdalene said:

No, I think there is more to it.  I think maybe deep down Alicent was in love with Rhaenyra and that is why she feels so betrayed that Rhaenyra lied to her about everything.

I don’t think this is the case, but I would certainly enjoy it if it were. Just one more layer here. 

Mixed feelings of pity and annoyance with Ser Criston. He’s no Jaime Lannister, he joined the Kingsguard with genuine intentions. But you kind of need to be a Jaime Lannister to survive, especially if you’re going to break your vows so easily. I don’t blame Rhaenyra for turning down his absurd offer. 

Really going to miss the two younger actors, they’ve been wonderful. Do love Olivia Cooke though.

[Dac22]

12 minutes ago, racked said:

I don’t blame Rhaenyra for turning down his absurd offer. 

As absurd as his offer, at least he did her the courtesy of giving her the full picture.

If she would have told him that she wanted him to forsake his vows and honor so she could have had a night of fun, I think he would have considered it to be equally absurd. Can't blame him for switching sides given she had already betrayed his trust and loyalty. 

12 minutes ago, magdalene said:

Did Rhea goad Daemon into finishing her off?  She had broken her neck when she fell off her horse. So it was only a matter of time and he was walking away at first.

That's what I gathered as well.

And with the way Rhea looked up right before her horse got spooked/she pulled out her weapon, was that Daemon's dragon I heard in the background? 

Edited September 19, 2022 by Dac22

[bunnyblue]

46 minutes ago, Jodithgrace said:

So after that bloodbath of a rehearsal dinner, they decide to hold the wedding right then? I mean indiscreet boyfriend’s blood is still there on the floor…not to mention that of the Father of the bride.

All those servants and they can't get anyone to clean up the huge puddle of blood? So gross. Joffrey's face almost gave me Oberyn vibes, I'm so glad we didn't get to that stage though. 

The way he grabbed her face, I was sure Daemon was going to kiss Rhaenyra on the dance floor. I love the chaos Daemon causes but what an asshole for killing his wife. I'm glad she wasn't some wilting flower and she made her disgust with him clear before he killed her. Daemon better not get Rhunestone.

Viserys would have been so much happier never being King. He just gets shit from every side: Daemon, Corlys, Rhaenyra, Otto, and now Alicent. Hell even the Maester sucks as caring for his health. Interesting the tension between Melos and Orwyn (?) regarding how best to treat the infected arm. Lyonel Strong seems to be the only one who gives a shit about Viserys.

With Corlys by her side, I think Rhaenys would be have been a stronger ruler than Viserys. I wish we'd gotten a close up of her riding Meleys.

So Alicent is pissed that Rhaenyra lied to her about her sexual escapades and so now declares open war on her at her wedding? Fuck her, man. 

And fuck Cole for going ape shit and killing a man because Rhaenyra turned him down and he can't live with his guilty conscious and rejection. 

I will always loathe the Lannisters, but Jason's entrance and reaction shots throughout the feast for hilarious. 

[Constantinople]

54 minutes ago, Athena5217 said:

Both Alicant and the king were wearing green so that comment about her dress did not  make much sense.

Viserys isn't a Hightower, but Alicent is.

I think it may also be the first time Alicent wore green since she wore her mother's green dress during her first visit to Viserys in Episode 1.

In Episode 1 Alicent wore light blue colors until she put on her mother's green dress. In Episode 2 I recall her wearing a bluish dress. In Episode 3 she wore a pale red dress, as if to indicate she was halfway to being a Targaryen. In episode 4 she wore a black and red dress, Targaryen colors, with some kind of pattern. She wore the same dress in this episode when saying goodbye to her father and when talking to Larys Strong. Then she switches back to her blue dress from Episode 2 when meeting with Ser Criston. And then Alicent dons a green dress for in Episode 5

It was also the manner of her entrance, drawing everyone's attention by arriving late.

Lord Hightower knew the score.

Larys did too.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Constantinople

[Stardancer Supreme]

1 hour ago, bluvelvet said:

 Also were they planning on getting married at that feast or did they do that because of what happened.

ETA: is it Christian or Criston?

Criston. 

Well, Viseys was planning 7 days of tournaments and feasting with the Royal Wedding happening at the end.  The wedding feast disaster prompted him to marry Rhaenyra off quickly and I assume send her to Driftmark with Laenor (or does Laenor stay with Rhaenyra at King's Landing?).

40 minutes ago, Athena5217 said:

Corlys should listen to his wife—his son is going to be in a lot of danger marrying Rhaenyra. Also, guys don’t grow out of being attracted to men any more than they do being attracted to women. Because sexual attraction is not like clothes.

He doesn't listen, though.  I wondered if that was why she didn't get involved in the Stepstones War. Corlys still talks about her being Queen when she never got that chance and pretty much put it behind her.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Stardancer Supreme

[Bulldog]

Did none of the many guests at the dinner find it odd that Laenor had such a complete and total meltdown over his "friend's" death?  Or is it one of those things people just wouldn't talk about?  In public, at least.  I'm quite sure tongues were wagging in private.   

[Constantinople]

1 hour ago, Jodithgrace said:

So after that bloodbath of a rehearsal dinner, they decide to hold the wedding right then? I mean indiscreet boyfriend’s blood is still there on the floor…not to mention that of the Father of the bride.

7 minutes ago, bunnyblue said:

All those servants and they can't get anyone to clean up the huge puddle of blood? 

It's the same old story known to aristocrats everywhere.

Good help is hard to find.

[magdalene]

6 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Larys did too.

The name is a bit on the nose, isn't it? Combining Varys with Littlefinger?

[Dac22]

15 minutes ago, bunnyblue said:

And fuck Cole for going ape shit and killing a man because Rhaenyra turned him down and he can't live with his guilty conscious and rejection. 

Nah, the person most at fault for Joffrey's death is Joffrey.

Not only was it clear Criston wasn't in the mood to be bothered, which Joffrey pointed out earlier, but Joffrey had the gall to arrogantly threaten Criston's life while not having much of a clue what he was talking about. 

If you threaten someone's life, then you can't really play the victim if they come at you in this setting. 

Also, I think Criston is allowed to feel what he feels. That doesn't necessarily justify his actions, of course, but I never understand the idea people should be deprived from feeling how they feel.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Dac22

[LadyChaos]

Ser Criston really went: Yeah, I fucked her...but she made me.

[ursula]

1 hour ago, SilverStormm said:

I don't think Ser Criston had feelings for Rhaenyra, he said and clearly in his mind, running off and marrying her was the only way to absolve himself of breaking his kingsguard vow but I don't think it works that way, heh. So I think that was what was eating at him and why he blabbed so easily after Rhaenyra rejected his proposal - guilty conscience + bitterness. 

Also why he went psycho on Laenor's lover - he felt humiliated although I don't think that was the intention - but maybe it was, idk. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I agree. I felt she coerced him last week and now I’m sure of it.

The only way he could accept what happened to him was to believe  that she loved him and wanted to run away with him. When she confirms that she was just using him, he snapped. Not because he loves/d her but because she made him a victim.

Edited September 19, 2022 by ursula

[tennisgurl]

You know what they say, a Westerosi wedding without at least one death is considered a dull affair. 

"Weddings have become more perilous than battles, it would seem."-Stannis Baratheon, a few hundred years later. 

That episode certainly escalated things! I cant believe that Daemon finally killed his wife...although maybe I'm not. Then he practically cackled to her understandably pissed cousin about how he so obviously killed Rhea and wants her inheritance like a real bastard, he was even smugger than usual at the wedding. Good luck with all of that, Laena. She was really going for it with Daemon, the Velaryon's are out here for the dragons. 

Poor Laenor, having to get married while his boyfriends blood was still covering the floor. Ser Joffrey really should have just thanked the seven that his boyfriends new wife was cool with being his beard and letting him keep hooking up with him while keeping their secret, but no, he had to push things. 

I think the gruesome murder was due to Cristen both having feeling for Rhaenyra, even though she only wants him as her sidepiece, and his guilt over breaking his vows, like if he ran off with Rhaenyra and they got married it would retroactively justify him breaking his vow, but realizing that she never plans on him being anything but her side piece made him crack, that he broke his vow just for lust and the princess wanting some action. You can tell he's still new to all of this, your wealthy and powerful boss is never going to leave their spouse for you. Guy has a seriously scary temper, and naïveté and a temper can be a dangerous combination. 

As many secrets there are around court, people kind of suck at keeping them. Daemon and Rhaenyra were making out in the middle of town, which a spy saw, Cristen cracked instantly when Alicent even hinted that she knew that Rhaenyra was lying about her chastity, she and Cristen eye fuck each other in front of people all of the time and Laenor and his boyfriend were all over each other during the wedding, even while his dad looked on, still praying that this is all just a phase he's going through. 

Alicent really got the green claws out. She was shooting some serious death glares at Rhaenyra, and I can understand why she's pissed. She has been telling everyone how she totally believes Rhaenyra and that she would never lie to her, including siding with Rhaenyra over her own father, which led to Otto being fired, and now she feels like she's been played by one of the last people she feels like she can talk to. 

I'm sad to see Milly Alcock and Emily Carey go in the time ship, I hope to see both actresses again in other projects soon, they were excellent. 

Viserys making Lyonel his new hand is probably one of the best ideas he's had in the show, he has always given him solid advice and speaks very politely but honestly with him. The Strong's are definitely going to be major players in whatever is coming up, whoever's side they end up being on. Lyonel and his eldest son were the only people smart enough to go and grab Rhaenyra from the middle of the fray before she got hurt (not great for the heir to be trampled to death at her own wedding) and his younger son Larys is apparently quite sneaky, telling Alicent about the morning after tea in a round about way. So what's their goal here? They are seem to be quite competent and working together from what little we have seen of their dynamic as a family, they are certainly going to be people to watch.  

[LadyChaos]

2 minutes ago, ursula said:

I agree. I felt she coerced him last week and now I’m sure of it.

The only way he could accept what happened to him was to believe  that she loved him and wanted to run away with him. When she confirms that she was just using him, he snapped. Not because he loved her but because she made him a victim.

I think he had genuine feelings for her.....but I also think that had she not pushed, he would not have broken his oath....I think his speech was equal parts wanting to be with her, and trying to ease his guilt. He's just not thinking clearly, even if she was inclined to run away with him...it would be a life on the run and always watching their back bc Aegon II, in order to secure his throne would have to find and kill her.

[Stardancer Supreme]

1 hour ago, AntFTW said:

Do they not send ravens at this point in Westerosi history? Viserys had to drag his sickly self to Driftmark to propose a marriage?

56 minutes ago, LanceM said:

I don’t think a proud man like Corlys, who sent his daughter to greet the king, would take kindly to a marriage proposal by raven.

Viserys had to go to Corlys. He did Corlys dirty by not immediately helping in the Stepstones and by refusing to marry Laena.  Viserys could have waited for Laena to "mature" and not stomp all over the feelings of his largest ally in Westeros.  

After the Stepstones, Corlys went home instead of going to King's Landing.  The only way to get Laenor for Rhaenyra was to go to Driftmark.

[Dac22]

13 minutes ago, ursula said:

The only way he could accept what happened to him was to believe  that she loved him and wanted to run away with him. When she confirms that she was just using him, he snapped. Not because he loves/d her but because she made him a victim.

Another layer to the story is their relationship prior to her seducing him.

In the third episode, the show had Criston express his admiration for and his gratitude towards her. And as a result of the time-skips, he has been her loyal sworn shield and confidant for the last several years. 

Whether he loved her or not, he still fully trusted her and was loyally devoted to her which plays a big role in everything. 

Edited September 19, 2022 by Dac22

[Constantinople]

1 hour ago, AntFTW said:

Do they not send ravens at this point in Westerosi history? Viserys had to drag his sickly self to Driftmark to propose a marriage?

1 hour ago, LanceM said:

I don’t think a proud man like Corlys, who sent his daughter to greet the king, would take kindly to a marriage proposal by raven.

28 minutes ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

Viserys had to go to Corlys. He did Corlys dirty by not immediately helping in the Stepstones and by refusing to marry Laena.  Viserys could have waited for Laena to "mature" and not stomp all over the feelings of his largest ally in Westeros.  

After the Stepstones, Corlys went home instead of going to King's Landing.  The only way to get Laenor for Rhaenyra was to go to Driftmark.

While I don't think Viserys should have sent a raven, I disagree that Viserys should have gone to Driftmark. He's the King and he's offering his heir's hand in marriage. Going to Driftmark made Viserys look weak. As Rhaenys said, it made Viserys look undignified and she's a shrewd political observer. It's not as if Viserys were on a royal progress. Kings don't go to Lords. Lords go to Kings.

Viserys should have sent someone on his behalf to broach the subject with Corlys and to tell Corlys if he's interested, to go to King's Landing and they can hammer out the details. Lyonel Strong seems the logical candidate since he's the Hand and an advocate of a Targaryen-Velaryon marriage.

[go4luca]

1 hour ago, magdalene said:

No, I think there is more to it.  I think maybe deep down Alicent was in love with Rhaenyra and that is why she feels so betrayed that Rhaenyra lied to her about everything.

I’m not getting this vibe at all.

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

Farewell to Milly Alcock and Emily Carey. I'll miss them both.

I’m really bummed about this as I think both actresses did a fine job.  But I’m trying to keep an open mind. 

[Stardancer Supreme]

12 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

While I don't think Viserys should have sent a raven, I disagree that Viserys should have gone to Driftmark. He's the King and he's offering his heir's hand in marriage. Going to Driftmark made Viserys look weak. As Rhaenys said, it made Viserys look undignified and she's a shrewd political observer. It's not as if Viserys were on a royal progress. Kings don't go to Lords. Lords go to Kings.

Viserys should have sent someone on his behalf to broach the subject with Corlys and to tell Corlys if he's interested, to go to King's Landing and they can hammer out the details. Lyonel Strong seems the logical candidate since he's the Hand and an advocate of a Targaryen-Velaryon marriage.

Viserys had a problem and needed Corlys; remember that he and Rhaenys didn't offer Laenor up for marriage to anyone, knowing his "true nature".  Viserys could have flexed and called for Corlys to come to him, yes. I think that he respected his cousin and her husband a bit more than that and this was also a form of apology for the other slights, real or imagined (TM Lyonel Strong). 

Plus, Lord Strong was a bit snippy with Laenor and Laena knowing full well why Corlys didn't greet them at the door.  That was Corlys going "He's my cousin. He knows to come on through since he came all the way out here..."

Edited September 19, 2022 by Stardancer Supreme

[jeansheridan]

2 hours ago, magdalene said:

I am glad Lady Rhea's horse lived. I have my priorities

Me too! I felt for her though. She was so vivid.

My issue is that the show is moving so fast there's no time to enjoy anyone really. Like it was neat the two cousins came to an understanding but it all ends in tragedy in the same hour. I guess I will just have to accept this is the speed reading version of GOT. The only slow burn is Daemon and Rhynaera. And watching Viserys die. Wow he is just...rotting. Paddy is excellent at playing ill. I got a Stannis vibe from him this time. Stannis just got things done. "Do your duty". 

1 hour ago, bunnyblue said:

I will always loathe the Lannisters, but Jason's entrance and reaction shots throughout the feast for hilarious. 

Much needed humor. That and I am getting Bronn vibes from the Strong who rescued Rhynaera.  He's more highborn but he's also muscle. And I do love a man who can bash heads in to save a person.

[thuganomics85]

We get it, Martin: you really, really hate weddings!

Was wondering if we were ever going to meet Daemon's wife and we finally got a glimpse of her at least.  Yeah, I'm not surprised that she wasn't some kind of hideous beast, but basically seemed like a confident, badass woman who probably didn't put up with his shit and that's why he despised her (well, that and because she didn't quite have the hair color or bloodline that gets him turned on!)  But just like that, she's already off the board and Daemon is back to doing what he does best: be smug, eye-fuck Rhaenyra, and just cause general chaos.  Classic Daemon!  Matt Smith is such a blast in this role.

So, Laenor is actually gay, but he and Rhaenyra seem to actually have a good thing going by making a deal that as soon as they pop out an heir, they can just fuck whoever they want.  For this show, that's a good thing!  Too bad that he just happened to fall for someone who decided to be an idiot and completely overplayed his hand for no real good reason.  Speaking of which:

Criston, you "sweet" summer child!  You really thought Rhaenyra was going to give away everything and run away with you?  I don't know if his guilt was affecting his judgement or if he really did just fall head over heels for her, but he really misread that entire situation.  And just made things worse for himself.  Luckily for him, Alicent probably has need for him, so I guess this will keep him in the game for a little while longer.

Not surprised Rhaenys was clearly aware about what kind of person Laenor was into, while Corlys would be all "It's just a phase!" or "They're just, really, really close friends!"

Viserys isn't looking very good, y'all!

Jason Lannister returns and is going hard with the "Ha ha, women take so long to get dressed, am I right, fellows?!"  Can't wait for his next stand-up.  Probably be chalked full with "Why do women always go to the bathroom together?!" and other boorish classics!

Lord Strong is not only the Hand now, but his sons are certainly making their marks as well.  This family is certainly making a name for themselves!

I've heard of my fair share of "shotgun" weddings, but making the couple read their vows while the groom's lover's blood hasn't even been mopped off the floor is really taking this to a whole other level!

Looks like the big time jump is happening next week!  Assuming we won't get any kind of flashbacks, I certainly hope both Milly Alcock and Emily Carey get massive roles going forward and blow up even more.  Both of them completely owned these roles and deserve all of the praise they've been getting.

[ursula]

On 9/18/2022 at 10:01 PM, Dac22 said:

Whether he loved her or not, he still fully trusted her and was loyally devoted to her which plays a big role in everything. 

This though. It was a betrayal of trust from someone he looked up to. 

On 9/18/2022 at 9:53 PM, LadyChaos said:

On 9/18/2022 at 9:48 PM, ursula said:

 

I think he had genuine feelings for her.....but I also think that had she not pushed, he would not have broken his oath....

I don’t doubt that he cared for her before the sex, but I think it was more of hero worship or gratitude. A kind of innocent, “knightly” crush. He didn’t expect anything to come out of it. He definitely didn’t want to break his oath for her.

But as he said, if she loved him and (he convinced himself that) he loved her, then that made it ok. It wasn’t a violation. It wasn’t sordid. It was “true love”.

Her response was a slap in the face.

Furthermore, her saying she wants the affair to continue (and let’s be plain she can make him continue the affair regardless of how he felt or wanted) definitely  erases any good feelings he has for her.

Edited September 23, 2022 by ursula

[Hootis]

This is just silly. Who's this new whispering wormtongue with the cane? How does Daemon who was banished just waltz into the hall? And how did anyone allow violence in the presence of the king AND his heir? Sir Crybaby would've been dogpiled after the first punch. I'm surprised someone wasn't filming the fight with a cellphone. "Worldstar!" What nonsense.

[jeansheridan]

48 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Looks like the big time jump is happening next week!  Assuming we won't get any kind of flashbacks, I certainly hope both Milly Alcock and Emily Carey get massive roles going forward and blow up even more.  Both of them completely owned these roles and deserve all of the praise they've been getting.

I feel like the producers made a grave mistake here. Given all the ages of the four actors I think they should have started with Olivia and kept Millie. TV audiences fall for actors more than anything. 

GOT was what it was due to people loving the actors. I might have recast Bran in the later seasons. He was the only child actor who didn't quite grow enough. He tried but I think didn't sell Bran as Three-Eyed Crow.  But Emilia, Peter, Gwendoline, Kit, Nikolas...they grounded the show.

So next week they lose their most charismatic lead and Paddy won't make it to Season 2. Matt Smith might. His Daemon is very fun. 

I guess people find Ser Cole handsome but shrug. He is too earnest. 

[ZeeEnnui]

RIP Rhea Royce. In less than 5 minutes, you showed up like a boss, and had some sick burns for Matt Daemon. Gone too soon. (I hope one day your horse gets its revenge and kicks Daemon in his smirky face).

Looks like the queen has her very own Littlelimp. Let's hope his accent doesn't change every season. 

I thought Rhaenyra was the teenage girl in the relationship, not Criston. Bro, crack some mint chip ice cream and sing your heart out to Adele. Freaking out and killing someone on the dance floor is a major red flag. 

Lesson of the episode: Loose lips, get your face bashed all the way in. 

Curious what happens now that Alicent has "saved" Criston.

Someone play "Hungry Eyes" because  that dance floor was looking dirty when Daemon and Rhaenyra hit it. Nobody puts Daemon in a corner. 

Queen Bitch has arrived. Welcome to the party, Alicent. Green is your color. Even though we got that really clunky exposition about green being the Hightower call to arms, I don't necessarily think that everyone picked up on that. This just seemed like the first time that Alicent seemed assertive, and queen-like (she's been pretty meek up till this point). Viserys doesn't know why the fuck his wife isn't there to help him play Westerosi Legos anymore, and her calling Rhaenyra "stepdaughter" tells her that's she's busted. At the end of the day, I think Alicent is really hurt. She confided in Rhaenyra that she felt very alone, and had no one she could trust. She placed her trust in Rhaenyra, and went to bat for her only to discover that she was lied too. Is it fair? Maybe not, but that's how Alicent feels. So now she's in the game. 

Laena's dress was amazeballs. 

Viserys was right, Driftmark (that was the name of his castle, right?) is way cooler than the Red Keep. Love to know who Corlys' designer is. I would so watch their HGTV Show Designing for Dragons. 

More Rhaenys, please!

Edited September 19, 2022 by ZeeEnnui

[Lady S.]

4 hours ago, ybrik said:

Well only one dead, I say that is successful for a Westeros wedding. 

And still a dull wedding by Dothraki standards, where you need 3 deaths to really make it an event.

Man, the sheep in the Vale must be really fuckable. Really, Daemon had grounds to have the marriage annulled if it was never consummated, but obviously no guy wants to admit to impotency. No way in 7 hells he's getting her inheritance when she has blood kin and likely told people their marriage wasn't consummated. Just because Daemon had the audacity to claim it doesn't mean it'll work. Up until now he thought he could take a 2nd wife without even getting rid of Rhea.

[Roccos Brother]

I must have missed something, why did the horse flip out for seemingly no reason in the beginning?

I echo what others have said - Joffrey was completely obnoxious; all he had to do was keep his mouth shut. I only hope our chance to see a meaty storyline involving a same-sex coupling didn't die with him.

Also, why wasn't that fight quashed immediately? Why weren't there better protections and emergency protocol for people as important as the soon-to-be Queen and King Consort? They both came very close to serious injury, if not worse. There should have been immediate ramifications.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Roccos Brother

[nomodrama]

4 hours ago, dramachick said:

 Laenor's boyfriend was too smart for his own good. He should have sat there and ate his food instead of talking shit to Ser Criston, who made sure the Knight of Kisses would never say another word about Rhaenyra. 😐

4 hours ago, Dac22 said:

Yeah, maybe acting like a smug jerk and threatening a member of the Kingsguard while not knowing anything other than what your own mind has cooked up isn't the best idea.

Seriously, Joffrey, true to his namesake, was too dumb to live. Laenor and Rhaenyra haven't even been married yet and he immediately goes to Ser Criston to what, blackmail him, what an idiot. I wasn't sad to see his exit....though it was unpleasant. 

I'm in the camp that does not think that Ser Criston caught feelings. I think Rhaenyra put him in a difficult position. He definitely went to bed with her willingly but even if he didn't want to would he have been able to refuse her without possibly suffering the consequences down the line. He is clearly very loyal to his position and having major buyers remorse. I'd say his is mourning his lost dignity more than not having the princess. 

Daemon's wife seemed great and then of course they killed her right away. 

The one great thing about this show versus GOT is that everyone here is awful, there is no one to root for or get particularly attached to. This is probably a good thing knowing how these shows go. 

[Lady S.]

Also "you must prepare Aegon to rule", Otto? If Viserys had dropped dead the prince would still be a toddler, bit hard to prepare someone who can't speak full sentences yet. More useful to say she should be shoring up her own allies to place Aegon on the throne ahead of Rhaenyra, no matter his age. Of course Otto leaves unspoken the corollary to Rhaenyra needing Aegon out of the way is Team Green needing Rhaenyra and any children she produces dead.

But I don't think Alicent really thinks she should fear for her children because Rhaenyra's a liar. This is personal resentment causing her to firmly side with the Hightower agenda and abandon any last loyalty to Rhaenyra. Interesting that the dress she wore when Criston revealed the truth was the same as when Viserys revealed his choice of bride and Rhaenyra realized their betrayal. Last week she looked about as heartbroken as Rhaenyra did then after first hearing Otto's accusations, and now she knows Rhaenyra hooked up with two guys that night.

Anyway, I'm very disappointed we did not actually see an Alicent/Rhaenyra confrontation. Guess all the fights will be with the older cast, but I really wanted to see the final break-up.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Lady S.

[RobertDeSneero]

Sir Criston seemed like he felt the creepy Knight of Kisses was either trying to blackmail him or hitting on him.  Is gay panic defense valid in Westeros?

1 hour ago, nomodrama said:

The one great thing about this show versus GOT is that everyone here is awful, there is no one to root for or get particularly attached to. This is probably a good thing knowing how these shows go. 

The thing about GOT was it was designed to make the audience root for someone (Daenarys) with the intention of hurting them by having them turn out to be awful in the end.  I really do think the point of the books and show was to do that emotional rug-pull and I marvel at the beauty of it.  Maybe this show can do the opposite and have characters who start out doing awful things but have you end up rooting for them.

[paigow]

29 minutes ago, RobertDeSneero said:

Sir Criston seemed like he felt the creepy Knight of Kisses was either trying to blackmail him or hitting on him. 

Corlys is more progressive than Longshanks in Braveheart... 

[Dac22]

1 hour ago, nomodrama said:

Seriously, Joffrey, true to his namesake, was too dumb to live. Laenor and Rhaenyra haven't even been married yet and he immediately goes to Ser Criston to what, blackmail him, what an idiot. I wasn't sad to see his exit....though it was unpleasant. 

Even if we take the interpretation that he was just trying to be friendly, I still don't know what he was trying to accomplish.

Not only does he out his and Laenor's secret to a complete stranger, but he then proceeds to let the stranger know that he's aware of his secret that could get him killed and cause problems for the person he assumes the stranger loves.

Instead of doing that extremely stupid thing, just let Rhaenyra handle it given Joffrey is aware she and Laenor have an understanding.

Quote

"We should swear to each other to guard them, and their secrets, because if those are kept safe... then so are we all."

But given the way Joffrey leans in at the end of that sentence and the emphasis put on the last five words, it did come across as a thinly veiled threat to me even if he was trying to be friendly. Basically telling Criston everything is cool as long as he plays ball.

Except Criston had already stopped playing ball long before that.

[Affogato]

3 hours ago, Roccos Brother said:

I must have missed something, why did the horse flip out for seemingly no reason in the beginning?

I’d guess Wyvern related. 

[Pestilentia]

7 hours ago, aghst said:

Criston was a dullard, confessing immediately.  Doesn’t that put Raynera at risk?  Way to protect.  All of a sudden he’s in his feels?

He's been relatively competent all along and he's been at court for several years. I did not like that they turned him into a simpering idiot who actually thought "Hey, let's run away together"  would solve their problems. He turned utterly stupid and unalived the cutest little redhead I've seen in years. IMO he'd have had a better understanding of his place and how to behave- goading him should not have worked so easily. All in all he turned out to be just a pretty face who should never have opened his mouth- the moment he did sheer volumes of stupidity started falling out.

I guess absolutely no one is even considering that Daemon did not use the rock? I heard a distinct crunch when her head hit the ground. He was very quick to let Viserys believe he had defiled Rhaenyra when he had not and I think there's at least a chance this is the same situation. His pathology is somehow more comfortable allowing people to believe the worst of him than it is his defending himself or caring at all that people's perceptions of his behaviors are so skewed. He seems the type that would revel in the bad reputation regardless of whether he had actually done the bad boy deeds.

Just me?

[cambridgeguy]

1 hour ago, RobertDeSneero said:

The one great thing about this show versus GOT is that everyone here is awful, there is no one to root for or get particularly attached to. This is probably a good thing knowing how these shows go. 

It's not as simple as they're awful, so it's fine when they die.  Tywin was a dick, but the show suffered when he took a bolt to the gut.  Daemon's a horrible human being but if he were to die that would be a critical error. 

5 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Luckily for him, Alicent probably has need for him, so I guess this will keep him in the game for a little while longer.

This will likely be yada-yada'd over the time jump, but there's no way he would be allowed to stick around.  The Kingsguard are not supposed to fly into an uncontrollable rage, and Cristin is not some legendary fighter or politically important person who'd be allowed a little leeway for starting a brawl that could have seriously injured Rhaenyra.

[Haleth]

Hi, Rhea!  I kind of like you.  You're a pretty cool new charac... oh, oops.  Bye, Rhea.

Hi, Joffrey!  I don't like you.  You are a sneaky scoundr... oh, oops.  Bye, Joffrey.

Ser Christon is an idiot.  Blurting out that he was the one who deflowered Rhaenyra when Alicent was asking him about Daemon.  Then trying to convince Rhaenyra to give up her inheritance and run away with him.  (And what about her dragon?  Does he come too?)  Then moping around brazenly enough for others to pick up on it.  Then killing a guest at the wedding.  Then trying to kill himself in front of the heart tree.  Such a drama queen.

8 hours ago, AntFTW said:

Do they not send ravens at this point in Westerosi history? Viserys had to drag his sickly self to Driftmark to propose a marriage?

That made no sense at all for a king to grovel like that.  I suppose it was to show how weak Viserys is, humbling himself in front of Corlys.  

8 hours ago, ShannaB said:

I get Littlefinger vibes with Larys Strong.  Definitely the slithering snake in the garden with the Queen.

Yeah, really.  He should have a neon sign over his head saying "VILLAIN!"

Alicent doesn't even like her kids but she's going to go to war if the boy isn't named heir?

I didn't see the previews but I'm surprised that Viserys will still be around next week?  I figured he dropped dead right after the happy couple exchanged their vows.  Ah, Westerosi weddings are so interesting.  My son is getting married in 3 weeks.  I expect less excitement.

[Sakura12]

So we finally meet and say goodbye to Daemon's infamous "ugly" wife, who wasn't ugly at all. Just not blonde or related to him. 

Does the name Joffrey make you a dumbass? He could've just left it alone and continued his relationship with Leanor with Rhaenyra's blessing. Now he's dead and his drying blood still there while Leanor cries through his wedding. What a way to start your marriage, sorry my secret lover killed your secret lover.

So Alicent turns on Rhaenyra because she lied about her sex life. You only asked her about Daemon and she didn't sleep with him that was the truth. 

Ser Criston turned out to be a wuss, she wasn't even talking about him and he confessed. No wonder he asked to be killed quickly instead of tortured, they wouldn't even need to start the torture before he confessed all his sins. Then he just rages out and kills a guy. You lucked out Rheanyra, he's a bit unstable. I know they take a vow, but how many of them actually follow it. I would guess very few. 

I will be sad to see Milly Alcock and Emily Carey go they did a great job in these 5 episodes. Let's see how the older actress do. 

[LadyChaos]

I honestly think Otto's little speech to Alicent was rich....since if there's a war, he's caused it by manipulating the king into marrying Alicent....and he knew what Rhaenyra might have to do to secure her throne.....so....instead of being angry at Rhaenyra for protecting herself from a rumor, maybe Alicent should be angry at dear old daddy who put her in this position?

[Sakura12]

Alicent had no room to talk she went behind her friends back to seduce her father. She didn't tell Rhaenyra anything about that why would she think Rhaenyra has to be 100% truthful with her. 

Of course we never found out if Rheanyra drank the tea or not. 

[Lassus]

I must be a massive idiot because all the talk over the the Queen's dress was incredibly confusing to me.  OMG A GREEN DRESS ITS WAR OMG.

Hasn't she been wearing various green dresses the entire series?  Wasn't she just wearing a different one this very episode while walking around?  No?  Am I just stupid?

26 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Ser Criston turned out to be a wuss, she wasn't even talking about him and he confessed. No wonder he asked to be killed quickly instead of tortured, they wouldn't even need to start the torture before he confessed all his sins. Then he just rages out and kills a guy. You lucked out Rheanyra, he's a bit unstable.

Something else that was just weirdly, wildly out of character and made no sense at all to me.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Lassus

[Cristofle]

12 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Ser Criston turned out to be a wuss, she wasn't even talking about him and he confessed. No wonder he asked to be killed quickly instead of tortured, they wouldn't even need to start the torture before he confessed all his sins. Then he just rages out and kills a guy. You lucked out Rheanyra, he's a bit unstable. I know they take a vow, but how many of them actually follow it. I would guess very few. 

This was always the vibe in the mothership. Sure, the Night's Watch requires a vow of celibacy - but it was made clear that most, if not all, of the men went off to have sex with prostitutes pretty regularly. The same seemed to go for the Kingsguard. They cannot take wives, father legitimate children, or own property, but they're probably all sleeping around and no one is doing anything about it. Sure, sleeping with the princess is more dangerous. But if you don't say anything, she doesn't say anything, and she keeps getting her Plan B tea, then no one is going to throw a fit if you don't make it public. 

I find it hard to believe Criston was naive enough to EVER think the princess and heir to the Iron Throne would EVER run away with him. That's not how things are done in this time, and I find it hard to believe he didn't know that. Honestly, with all the gossip going around Kings Landing, I'm not sure how he managed to miss that Rhaenyra was with Daemon first that night and came to him when that fell apart. I'm sorry, but you were her sloppy seconds, dude. I definitely felt like that went WAY over his head since he somehow thought Alicent was talking about HIM even though she had said Daemon's name. 

I was not feeling Alicent in this episode. As others have said, yes, Rhaenyra misled her (although technically she was telling the truth that she didn't have sex with Daemon). But she misled Rhaenyra about her relationship with her father. Her extreme reaction seems...unearned. Also, Otto ranting her to her about how Rhaenyra being on the throne would be challenged was a little rich, since I'm relatively certain Otto himself will be a primary figure in whipping everyone into a fervor.

Daemon and Rhaenyra are both insane, lol. He murdered his wife and ran straight to her, and then she suggested he take out her father's entire guard service and take her to Dragonstone and wed her. As terrible as what he did to Rhea was, I found myself LOLing when Daemon quipped he was "bereft" about her death. Matt Smith's delivery of that line was perfection. 

I did like that Rhaenyra was well aware of who Laenor is and she suggested a relatively practical solution where they wouldn't both have to be completely miserable. AND she was fairly gentle and nonjudgmental in her delivery. This is the first time in episodes Rhaenyra has seemed more capable of being a political player. Of course, then she asked her uncle to marry her and blow it to pieces, lol, but we can't win 'em all.

Joffrey was an idiot. I have no idea why he approached Criston in such a manner. That said, Alicent is really going to have to pull strings that I wouldn't think she has the power to pull, even as Queen, to prevent Criston for being immediately executed. 

I find myself liking both Harwin and Lyonel, who seem to just go ahead and their business done without any nonsense. But Larys is obviously sinister without a clear motive yet as to why. 

[Uncle JUICE]

7 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Criston, you "sweet" summer child!  You really thought Rhaenyra was going to give away everything and run away with you?  I don't know if his guilt was affecting his judgement or if he really did just fall head over heels for her, but he really misread that entire situation.  And just made things worse for himself.  Luckily for him, Alicent probably has need for him, so I guess this will keep him in the game for a little while longer.

The scene on board the boat was really rough. There is zero chance they could have had such an animated conversation, so close together, without anyone starting rumors, which is basically how (I think) Lord Longmouth or whatever Raggedy Andy's boyfriend was called, figures out the whole "They Fuckin'" secret so quickly, basically taking some rumors and whispers, and filling in the few blanks left. Ergo, that conversation on the boat contributes to the vicious beating that guy ate. What I do not understand is how he wasn't detained and summarily executed for murdering a member of a high lord's retinue at the king's pre-hearsal dinner. Seems really weird to me. 

Back to the boat scene...I kinda wish Rhaenrya was a little more firm in response. Basically "Wait, did you actually think we were going to get married and run off together? Grow up, sir."

4 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

I find it hard to believe Criston was naive enough to EVER think the princess and heir to the Iron Throne would EVER run away with him. That's not how things are done in this time, and I find it hard to believe he didn't know that. Honestly, with all the gossip going around Kings Landing, I'm not sure how he managed to miss that Rhaenyra was with Daemon first that night and came to him when that fell apart. I'm sorry, but you were her sloppy seconds, dude. I definitely felt like that went WAY over his head since he somehow thought Alicent was talking about HIM even though she had said Daemon's name. 

THIS. 

[LadyChaos]

Something someone pointed out, idk if its true or not without rewatching episode 101, but they said that Criston's true character was shown in the first scene he was in when he fought Daemon.....when they were went to hand to hand combat, he tried to stab Daemon when his back was turned.....so he stands up there talking about honor, and chivalry, and love....etc....but ultimately he is the type of person to play dirty.

[LadyChaos]

Also...for all his faults, Viserys does seem to genuinely love and care for his daughter and want to make sure she has the best and most secure outcome for her future. I think he recognizes the hypocrisy of the realm and honestly doesn't care if she engaging in the pleasures life has to offer, but more that he is worried that Daemon will use her up and destroy her.

[paigow]

38 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

That said, Alicent is really going to have to pull strings that I wouldn't think she has the power to pull, even as Queen, to prevent Criston for being immediately executed.

Dude is going to Essos with a few tonnes of cinnamon....

[absnow54]

42 minutes ago, Lassus said:

Hasn't she been wearing various green dresses the entire series?  Wasn't she just wearing a different one this very episode while walking around?  No?  Am I just stupid?

I want to say that for all official appearances, like Aegon II birthday and Daemon's return party, she's been wearing some combination of black and red (Targaryen colors) and the dress she was wearing earlier in the episode was actually blue (which I only noticed because I was waiting for the GREEN dress.)

[Haleth]

44 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Raggedy Andy

Ok, that is hilarious. 

[paigow]

58 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

What I do not understand is how he wasn't detained and summarily executed for murdering a member of a high lord's retinue at the king's pre-hearsal dinner.

Kingsguard.... Ride or Die

[Constantinople]

3 hours ago, Pestilentia said:

I guess absolutely no one is even considering that Daemon did not use the rock?

Corlys: You flatter me, Your Grace. Though I do wish we could meet under happier pretenses. 
Viserys: How so?
Corlys: Daemon's wife, the Lady Rhea Royce, has passed.
Rhaenys: A hunting mishap. She was thrown from her horse. Her neck and skull both crushed in the fall.

Lady Royce's skull wasn't crushed before Daemon picked up that rock.

[Lassus]

59 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

I want to say that for all official appearances, like Aegon II birthday and Daemon's return party, she's been wearing some combination of black and red (Targaryen colors) and the dress she was wearing earlier in the episode was actually blue (which I only noticed because I was waiting for the GREEN dress.)

Thanks.  I think it was a bit of color-blindness with the green and blue where it just didn't strike me as particularly notable.

[CletusMusashi]

10 hours ago, Bulldog said:

Did none of the many guests at the dinner find it odd that Laenor had such a complete and total meltdown over his "friend's" death?  Or is it one of those things people just wouldn't talk about?  In public, at least.  I'm quite sure tongues were wagging in private.   

Even Renly and Loras were a fairly open secret. Laenor and Joffrey seemed even more so. Kind of in a glass closet.