S06.E13: Saul Gone

[ahmerali]

1 minute ago, ahmerali said:

Yes, thank you. That's part of what still really bothers me...if it's about doing the best atonement you can do, I don't really see it, either for Jimmy or Kim. I'm warming up to the idea that for Jimmy, being a prison lawyer and baking bread for the rest of his life is his 'consequence', but what is hers exactly, for being his enabler of sorts? Yup yup sex?

So now Kim can leave the prison, saying with absolute truth, "I'm still getting away with it?"

She'll just be good from now on? Which consists of not actively and directly hurting people?

Okay, I guess???

[maystone]

5 minutes ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

The way it was shot? I think it absolutely was a goodbye and the last time she would see him. The way he did the double-finger guns at her and she didn't respond, and we see Jimmy disappear behind the wall and out of Kim's sight as she leaves the prison. That to me was absolutely a visual representation of him disappearing from her life. 

Damn, I think you're right. I hate that you are, but, yeah - you're right.

[GustavMahler]

2 hours ago, WritinMan said:

Man, these commercials...

Never a problem for me. I hit the mute, close my eyes, and relax for a bit. The best remedy for commercial breaks . 

[sistermagpie]

9 minutes ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

The way it was shot? I think it absolutely was a goodbye and the last time she would see him. The way he did the double-finger guns at her and she didn't respond, and we see Jimmy disappear behind the wall and out of Kim's sight as she leaves the prison. That to me was absolutely a visual representation of him disappearing from her life. 

Could certainly be. What I got from it was that they were on good terms again. Jimmy's in prison so it's not like they'd be hanging out, but putting it like this makes it seem like Kim's getting him out of her life, as if he was the problem, and that doesn't seem true. That's what she did when she left him. I saw the finger guns as him giving her his blessing to go off and be happy, not that she was rejecting him by not doing it back. 

6 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

The whole point of what happened to Howard, and Kim's remorse for it, leading to her confession in Waterworks, is that scams and crimes, even apparently "innocent" ones, have unintended, unforseen consequences. Therefore you stop pulling scams and committing crimes because you don't know where they'll lead.

16 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

In other words Kim's character development since she left Jimmy, particularly everything in Waterworks, was bullshit.

That's your interpetation of it, but it's not mine. After leaving Jimmy Kim didn't develop, she froze, going through the motions of a life afraid to make a decision about anything. Jimmy's phone call made her actually take a step forward in doing the right thing, and that led her to be able to decide who she was going to be and be able to make actual decisions. That's what sent her to the law office. She wouldn't have been able to do that before then. And deciding to flash a card so she could meet with Jimmy face to face in prison was another decision she was able to make without a paranoid fear that it would lead to someone dropping dead because she did something she wanted or she would wind up doing something worse. That's development.

Edited August 16, 2022 by sistermagpie

[DrSpaceman73]

I'd totally watch another spinoff with saul/Jimmy in prison

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, ahmerali said:

Well, I guess there's no debate, Best ending to a series ever...Breaking Bad, and it's not even close.

I liked this one better.  I thought Walt had it too good (death too much on his terms).  And I hated the Nazis.  

This, for the most part, felt very true to who these people are.  It wasn't bang 'em up but I thought it felt more fitting even if I think Breaking Bad, overall, was a better series.

Although I'd put neither in my top finales category.

1 hour ago, Crashcourse said:

I won't be watching the spinoffs with Odenkirk or Esposito, or any other spinoffs.  

Both Esposito and Odenkirk's shows aren't related to the BB/BCS/Gould/Gilligan universe at all.  They're just trying to get people interested because they star stars of this show.  It's the same reason Showtime opted to advertise the second season of Your Honor during the finale since it stars Cranston.

37 minutes ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

As his lawyer, she was able to get one-on-one, no guards around time with him to say goodbye. And it was clearly a goodbye. She had no intention of visiting him over and over again as his "lawyer." She wanted a last farewell with him, so she used her card.

I don't know if it's a goodbye.

5 minutes ago, ahmerali said:

So now Kim can leave the prison, saying with absolute truth, "I'm still getting away with it?"

She's still facing a civil lawsuit. Jimmy's confession didn't really help her all that much. She was already in a position where she was unlikely to be prosecuted.  But she did turn over the confession to Cheryl who is planning on suing. 

[Constantinople]

7 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

It’s also possible that Kim has learned—the very hard way—that she has to impose constraints on some of her more destructive drives. I find it very believable that she would share a transgressive cigarette with Jimmy (not Saul) but not have to become full-on Giselle ever again.

If she's committing crimes then she hasn't learned she must impose constraints on her most destructive drives.

[hecter salmonca]

the title "Saul Gone" can be a reference to "It's all gone" with being everyone and everything is gone in Gene's life, but it could also be about Saul dying/leaving. Saul is gone and Jimmy comes back 

Edited August 16, 2022 by hecter salmonca

[Constantinople]

3 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

And deciding to flash a card so she could meet with Jimmy face to face in prison was another decision she was able to make without a paranoid fear that it would lead to someone dropping dead because she did something she wanted or she would wind up doing something worse. That's development.

Realizing she had to leave Jimmy was development. Confessing was development. Committing a crime and justifying lying aren't development, but the reverse.

[Ed-]

Yeah, I am not buying that Saul is gone. "But with good behavior, who knows?" was not said by Jimmy. Prison is the only way Kim can be safe from Saul and from herself. I am not a doctor but I think they both have something like ASPD. The flashbacks with Mike, Walter and Chuck were pretty uncomfortable.

[sistermagpie]

2 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Realizing she had to leave Jimmy was development. Confessing was development. Committing a crime and justifying lying aren't development, but the reverse.

Only if you assume the ultimate direction of development is to become Chuck. But she's not Chuck and never will be. Accepting her whole personality, admitting that she sometimes likes to break rules, is imo a much better way of keeping herself in check than never telling a lie. She's healthier at the end of this ep than she was when she was so afraid of herself she was afraid to do anything.

[Ms Lark]

2 hours ago, WritinMan said:

Man, these commercials...

You're telling me. I couldn't log in to AMC+ at all until it was over. Pissed as hell. Probably too many folks logged in for the finale and the site couldn't handle the numbers.

1 hour ago, Constantinople said:

Kim is practicing law again?

I don't think so. She said her bar card didn't have an expiration date [on the card]. She still has the card and used it to gain access.

1 hour ago, WritinMan said:

From Cinnabon to the prison kitchen.

Yup. But I bet 10 to 1 that Jimmy McGill is the #1 jailhouse lawyer and that saves his butt from getting shivved.

I'm pretty sure AMC was just advertising new shows with Esposito and Odenkirk, not that they were spin-offs of BB or BCS.

[MJ Frog]

1 hour ago, Constantinople said:

You can visit prisoners without fraudulently presenting yourself as an attorney.

Certainly, but not with the privacy granted a visit with a lawyer. This way, we got to have that lovely film noir scene of them smoking together.

Boy does this thread move fast.

[Constantinople]

18 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Accepting her whole personality, admitting that she sometimes likes to break rules, is imo a much better way of keeping herself in check than never telling a lie.

Is that what they tell alcoholics? Have a drink every now and again?

Because that's what Kim became with her lies, her schemes and her crimes. She was an addict.

[estellasmum]

I like it. It didn't have the firepower of Felina, but that isn't what this show is. I look at Felina as Walter's "happy" ending (he died among that what he loved), El Camino as Jessie's "happy" ending (he had a LOT to deal with to get there, and an uncertain future), and this was Jimmy's happy ending (some redemption with Kim, and I'm fairly sure being BMOC in prison brought him more happiness than being a free Gene in NE.), and yet none of them "got away with it". I'm sure there are going to be MANY complaints about how boring it was, but I really felt it made sense with everything else, and was a good fit. 

I actually loved the Chuck flashbacks. It reminded me about the good there was in Jimmy (not to say he was a good person) and what I loved about the arc and tone of BCS in general.

[ahmerali]

OK, so I watched it again, and I paid more attention. I am sort of OK with Jimmy's ending, In times when he's in crisis, he tries to live up to someone else's standards, and fails - with Mike, with Walt, with Chuck - especially Chuck. And frankly, he couldn't even live up to the standards he set for himself as Saul.

But the problem I have here is...he decides to try and live up to the standard set by Kim? Which is "Be Jimmy McGill, try hard to be good, but it's OK to be bad once in a while, just not as bad and callous as Saul?"

And Kim's 'atonement'...I'm sorry, this is pathetic. She might face a civil trial? If she's visiting Jimmy in ADX Montrose, then I'm guessing that Cheryl Hamlin isn't working at breakneck speed, despite what Bill Oakley says. I don't see her 'atonement' as anything more than somewhere between "I'm getting away with it, and poor me look I'm so scarred by what I did", and "OK, I just won't do that any more and I feel really bad and I'll just be on the receiving end of yup yup nookie for a long time".

So if the story that G&G wanted to tell was that because he loved Kim so much, Jimmy gave up on the largesse of Saul and faced the music, OK. Doesn't change the fact that I think they could have done more. I won't knock them because I can't think of specifics of how they could do it, but that's how I feel.

[Starchild]

5 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Is that what they tell alcoholics? Have a drink every now and again?

Because that's what Kim became with her lies, her schemes and her crimes. She was an addict.

She was at her worst with Jimmy. She broke one last rule to say goodbye to him.

I don't think that means she's back on bad choice road again. 

[Utpe]

Very anti-climatic ending to BCS.  I think Breaking Bad set the bar too high.

[peeayebee]

Well, I was WAY off. I was positive Gene would get out of town, would not get apprehended by the police. That's why I don't write TV shows.

I need to sit on this a while. Not sure how I feel about the ep, though there were a lot of scenes I enjoyed.

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

... so it feels right that he would do the usual razzle dazzle to talk himself into a sweetheart of a deal only for original recipe Jimmy to bleed through at the 11th hour to chuck it all for the chance to do one last good thing for Kim.

I can't quite wrap my head around what Jimmy did for Kim. He falsely accused her of having played a part in Howard's murder, which he did in order to get her to come see him in court. And then he made a full confession. How did this benefit Kim? It changed her opinion of him, so it benefited him more than it did her. 

It certainly didn't help (or hurt) her legally. Am I missing something?

I didn't really follow all the plea agreement stuff with Saul running circles around the DA to get his sentence down to 7 years. After a minute or so, I just tuned out what was being said. It was all Greek to me.

And what was the flashback with Walt? I can't remember when the two of them were together like that. I swear at first I thought Saul was in prison (though I noticed his hair was long), and I thought, "Wait, did Walter NOT die?!?!? What a load of crap!" I just can't remember when this happened in BB.

Loved when Saul told Walt his regret about hurting himself during a slip-and-fall, and Walt looked at him blankly and said, "So you were always like this."

It was ok seeing Marie. I was never a fan of hers.

I loved seeing Chuck. He and Jimmy just couldn't help their little jabs at each other.

It was good seeing what some of us predicted with the diamonds, that Gene would stupidly lose them. I don't think anyone saw that happening in a dumpster.

When Saul/Jimmy walked into court wearing the shiny suit, I noticed he was wearing some kind of remembrance ribbon on his lapel. Anyone know what it was?

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 hour ago, Constantinople said:

Kim is practicing law again?

Another impossibility that's offensively stupid. Either her statement she gave in Waterworks to the DA's office is true or not. If true, she won't be allowed to practice law again. If it's not true, she committed perjury and won't be permitted to practice law again.

As is the idea she can't resign from the New Mexico bar. Just 3 episodes ago she told a judge she can't argue a motion because she was no longer a lawyer. The judge didn't say, joke's on you, once a lawyer, always a lawyer! Moreover we've been told Kim is a good attorney for 6 seasons. Now she's an ignorant moron for plot reasons.

1 hour ago, dwmarch said:

No but the prison doesn't know that. She said her bar card doesn't have an expiry date on it. So it's not valid but the prison either didn't care or didn't check.

1 hour ago, Simon Boccanegra said:

I thought she just meant she presented her old bar card and they believed at the prison she was his attorney. Which she wasn't. His or anyone's.  

1 hour ago, Penman61 said:

I thought Kim told Jimmy “My NM law license CARD doesn’t have an expiration date.” So she flashed the prison guards a card, but is still not actually a lawyer anymore.

Exactly.  She pretended to be an attorney, which actually could get her in trouble, if anyone who cared figured out what she had done.  I don't think she'll be back.

1 hour ago, ahmerali said:

So let me try this again: Jimmy's conversation with Walt shows that he only wishes he could have been better at getting away with his shenanigans. His conversation with Mike shows that he figures if he just had enough cash he could be beyond anyone's reach. But now in the end he realizes he's going down, and none of that matters, and the only thing that he really cares about is being Jimmy and being able to know that Kim is out there and is OK with him.

Is that about right?

Yes.  The love of a good woman . . . .

1 hour ago, Constantinople said:

You can visit prisoners without fraudulently presenting yourself as an attorney. Kim was identified as an attorney, which means she identified herself as an attorney to federal prison officials. Am I expected to believe that's not a crime?

Yes, it's definitely something.  Sure, she could have visited him on visiting day and been searched and probably separated by plexiglass and videotaped/recorded.  That's not what she wanted.  So, she did something shady.

1 hour ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

ADX Montrose is apparently the "Alcatraz of the Rockies" -- a Supermax prison in Colorado. It is unlikely they would have looked up her New Mexico bar license to confirm she was still a practicing lawyer in good standing with the bar.  

As his lawyer, she was able to get one-on-one, no guards around time with him to say goodbye. And it was clearly a goodbye. She had no intention of visiting him over and over again as his "lawyer." She wanted a last farewell with him, so she used her card. 

Exactly.

11 minutes ago, estellasmum said:

I'm fairly sure being BMOC in prison brought him more happiness than being a free Gene in NE.

I agree.  he doesn't have to hide anymore, and people appreciate his talents.  he just had to be careful to never mention the cartel.

[CynicalGirl]

32 minutes ago, Ms Lark said:

Yup. But I bet 10 to 1 that Jimmy McGill is the #1 jailhouse lawyer and that saves his butt from getting shivved.

Yes, but if you noticed, his fellow prisoners called him Saul when he was leaving the kitchen to meet with his "lawyer".

[Simon Boccanegra]

4 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

And what was the flashback with Walt? I can't remember when the two of them were together like that.

No, that was legit. They bunked together briefly at The Disappearer's place, late in the run of Breaking Bad.  

[Penman61]

2 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

And what was the flashback with Walt? I can't remember when the two of them were together like that. I swear at first I thought Saul was in prison (though I noticed his hair was long), and I thought, "Wait, did Walter NOT die?!?!? What a load of crap!" I just can't remember when this happened in BB.

That was when they were both awaiting Robert Forster to place them in his custom witness protection program. There was a brief scene in BB with both of them in the same location, and all I remember about that was Walt ending it with coughing badly.

[Starchild]

6 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

It was good seeing what some of us predicted with the diamonds, that Gene would stupidly lose them. I don't think anyone saw that happening in a dumpster.

Not to blow my own horn, but I did predict they could end up in a landfill, and it looks like that's what will end up happening. :)

[sistermagpie]

9 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Is that what they tell alcoholics? Have a drink every now and again?

Because that's what Kim became with her lies, her schemes and her crimes. She was an addict.

It's not what they say in AA, but there's other people or programs that are fine with it. AA doesn't have the track record people act like it does either.  Kim's not surrendering herself to a higher power that she doesn't have to call God either.🤷‍♀️

And since there's no actual way to say how her addiction to schemes and crimes works, we're just seeing her differently. To me, the Kim who was so careful to avoid "scheming" that she couldn't offer an opinion on anything was the first step of the process.

Really, if this is the danger with Kim, her jail visit wasn't the biggest temptation, it was working at the law firm. That place is going to be FULL of people who could probably benefit from a little massaging of the truth. She's going to be wanting to help out that poor lawyer too. 

I think her not being terrified of that part of herself would be a way to keep it in check than suppressing it until it comes out in some big way, like what seems to have been what happened with her and Jimmy. Addiction is a pretty vague term anyway, when not applied to an actual chemical dependence. She could also now be in a room with Jimmy without being worried it would lead to some big scam between them--unlike when he called her and she couldn't even speak to him.

1 minute ago, peeayebee said:

I can't quite wrap my head around what Jimmy did for Kim. He falsely accused her of having played a part in Howard's murder, which he did in order to get her to come see him in court. And then he made a full confession. How did this benefit Kim? It changed her opinion of him, so it benefited him more than it did her. 

It didn't benefit her except to make her relieved that he wasn't actually dragging her into more legal troubles.

2 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Loved when Saul told Walt his regret about hurting himself during a slip-and-fall, and Walt looked at him blankly and said, "So you were always like this."

Loved that line.

[MJ Frog]

8 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I can't quite wrap my head around what Jimmy did for Kim. He falsely accused her of having played a part in Howard's murder, which he did in order to get her to come see him in court. And then he made a full confession. How did this benefit Kim? It changed her opinion of him, so it benefited him more than it did her. 

I think it benefitted her quite a bit to know that Jimmy McGill, someone she loved, was back and Saul Goodman, a man she niether knew nor cared for, was gone.

[Bannon]

2 hours ago, Constantinople said:

The idea that the DOJ would give Saul a sweetheart deal due the possibility of one juror causing one mistrial is offensively stupid. They would just try him due to the evidence they have and due political pressure. People would be outraged.

Sam Gravano personally murdered 18 people, and served only a few years, because he could testify against Gotti and others. Most of the people we know Saul could testify against are already dead, but he had other clients, and if, say, he witnessed a major crime by a low level cartel soldier who had in intervening years climbed through the ranks, that would be quite valuable. In addition, he was a major money launderer, and might know where a huge amount of other drug money is hidden.

The DOJ has let quite a few people, with personal history of violent crime much worse than Saul's, get sentences every bit as light, when they have something to trade. It really isn't that outlandish a plot development.

[ahmerali]

4 minutes ago, MJ Frog said:

I think it benefitted her quite a bit to know that Jimmy McGill, someone she loved, was back and Saul Goodman, a man she niether knew nor cared for, was gone.

Well, I'm glad she feels better. /s

Other than Jimmy, for whom is that satisfying? I really do NOT get it.

[Bannon]

2 hours ago, Constantinople said:

I suspect impersonating a lawyer is a crime, particularly when you impersonate a lawyer to government officials? Why would Kim do that?

Eh, they wanted a visiting scene where they'd have the privacy a lawyer and client would have, not prisoner and visitor. They could have shot it the other way. Not that big a deal to me.

[MJ Frog]

4 minutes ago, ahmerali said:

Well, I'm glad she feels better. /s

Other than Jimmy, for whom is that satisfying? I really do NOT get it.

I'm not sure I understand the question. For whom else is it supposed to be satisfying? The point is that Jimmy made his confession, and accepted his punishment, at least in part for Kim. 

[ahmerali]

1 minute ago, MJ Frog said:

I'm not sure I understand the question. For whom else is it supposed to be satisfying? The point is that Jimmy made his confession, and accepted his punishment, at least in part for Kim. 

Yes fair enough, I appreciate that. It just seems like some people are saying the ending is awesome, and I'm saying that at least as far as Kim is concerned, it really isn't.

Interesting note: I watched the scene from Breaking Bad 5-15 where Walt and Saul are in Ed's basement. I'm paraphrasing a bit and only putting in the important parts:

Saul: "You're worried about your wife and kids - don't leave. The way things are now, some people might say you're leaving her high and dry...the phone call was a nice touch, it might buy her a mistrial...in a year and a half. Until then, they're going after her."
Walt: "There's no point. She knows nothing."
Saul: "Well, too bad for her. Then she's got nothing to trade. There's two dead DEA agents they can't find, you think the feds are going to let that go because you hit the ejector seat? First thing they'll do, they'll RICO your wife and kids out of the house, her picture's on TV next to yours...who will hire her?"
Walt: "Money's no problem." (He's still got that one barrel)
Saul: "I hate to contradict you, but getting it to her is impossible. The feds are just praying that you'll make contact. Everything's tapped. Mike was no dummy, but everything he tried to get to his granddaughter went into Uncle Sam's pockets."
Walt: "So you propose...what?"
Saul: "Stay. Face the music. How much time have you got left anyway? You walk in with your head held high, you'll be the Dillinger of the facility. How bad is that? And you bring forward some drug money, maybe they'll let your family stay in the house, which predates the crimes."

Walt didn't listen to his advice of course. But Saul sort of finally did listen to his own advice in the end. He thought he had plenty to bargain with until he realized what Kim had done and the risk she faced, and then I think this conversation sank in a bit. I wish that had come out in the episode, but I guess there was only a finite amount of time, and it was better spent on a new scene with Walt. That's fine I guess.

[Quilty]

Yawn…I’m disappointed in the finale.

[Dev F]

2 minutes ago, MJ Frog said:

I think it benefitted her quite a bit to know that Jimmy McGill, someone she loved, was back and Saul Goodman, a man she niether knew nor cared for, was gone.

Exactly this. A big reason why Kim broke bad is because she despaired at what the system did to people like Jimmy. That's why she ended up screaming at stubborn old Mr. Acker that he doesn't get to play by his own rules, then colluding with Jimmy to help him keep his house. That's why she deemed herself personally responsible for representing every downtrodden defendant in Albuquerque, even if she had to scam the Sandpiper case to do it. And it's why she ended up burying herself in a life where she didn't have to make any choices at all, because she convinced herself that even her noblest aspirations could only be achieved via her worst and most destructive impulses.

But here Jimmy showed her that she could redeem the hopeless not by conning the system into a fairer outcome, but simply by providing an example of decency for him to follow. He affirmed that her fondest hopes were possible without unleashing her greatest fears. After the events of the last episode seemed to suggest exactly the opposite—that Kim coming forward would benefit no one and only make her own life more miserable—it's quite an important thing to show her.

[tennisgurl]

I am going to need to process that a bit more, but I thought that was a very fitting finale. Gene's story ended the only way that it could, in the garbage, Saul manages to talk his way to only seven years for everything he's pulled, only for Jimmy to end up owning up to all of the horrible things that he's done. In the end, he somehow managed to be all three guys, now looking at decades in jail. Gene is baking bread, Saul is every crooks favorite lawyer, and Jimmy gets some closure with Kim. Its quiet, but I thought it was a perfect send off to such a great show. It doesn't have the bombast of the BB finale, but I think that was appropriate. BB was always such high drama, while this shows tragedy was a lot quieter, ironically given Saul's over the top personality, even back when he was Jimmy. 

I loved seeing Mike, Walt, and Chuck again, those flashbacks said so much about all three men and so much about Jimmy. The time travel questions were great, their answers were both so in character. Mike, who has always been drenched in regret, wants to take back that very first bribe he ever took which led to his turn to the dark side and to the death of his son, while Walt, prideful to the end, is still furious about losing out on that company, which has driven his resentment since day one. Both Mike and Walt are pretty unimpressed by Saul's answers, both basically responding with "are you really that shallow?" when he talked about regretting not getting even more money or having a cheap con go badly, while the two of them talk about these moments that changed the course of their entire lives, but the whole show has been showing how untrue that is. Saul might seem like an over the top caricature of an ambulance chaser, and spent most of BB as a source of dark comic relief, but now we know him as a tragic figure who started off with the best of intentions but fell to his own flaws, and while he might have answered his own question with typical Saul nonsense, we know that he deeply regrets how his life has turned out and the many people that he has hurt. You see that in the last flashback with Chuck, but when Jimmy was a lovable rogue looking out for his brother. 

Nice seeing Marie, I really did not getting to see her one more time. I want just one more "damn it Marie" for the road. 

I really like this ending for Kim, she's coming back to herself, but more of the person that she wanted to be and not the awful person that she became. She is volunteering at legal aid, she pulled one last mini con to say goodbye to Jimmy, and it seems like she is heading towards a version of Kim that knows what she can do but knows what can happen when she goes too far. Who knows, she might even have her ponytail of power back one day!

The cinematography on this show is always amazing, but this episode was especially beautiful, very noir. Those shots in the prison of Jimmy and Kim talking while the shadows hit their faces and the cigarettes are lit just so, the only real color in the room, a flame that is still lit for both Jimmy and Kim. 

Edited August 16, 2022 by tennisgurl

[Constantinople]

What do you do if you manage a fast food franchise, but can't work because you've been severely wounded in a shootout or you've been arrested by the police?

You act like the professional you are

Quote

(cell phone rings).
Lyle: Mr. Fring! I just walked through the door. I'm not running late, am I?
Gus: No, Lyle. Punctual as always.
Lyle: Oh, okay. Good. Uh, what can I do for you, sir?
Gus: I won't be in today, I'm sorry to say. In fact, you won't be seeing me all week. I've been called out of town. Family emergency.
Lyle: Oh, no. I'm... I'm so sorry. Uh, is there anything I can do? Do you need a ride to the airport?
Gus: Nothing like that. I need you to act as store manager in my stead. Unfortunately, at this late date, this will require you to both open and close today and tomorrow.
Lyle: Sure. Yes. I can do that.
Gus: Would you be able to set next week's schedule by close tomorrow? I like to give the employees time to prepare.

Point & Shoot, BCS S6 E8

Quote

Saul: Hello Krista, it's Gene. Uh, uh sorry I wasn't in this morning. Did you open up OK? (pause). I'm fine. Co-could you do me a favor? The week's rotation needs to be posted by three. Could you handle that? (pause). Uh, one more thing. Um...Just call the main office, the number is on the bulletin board. And, uh, let them know, um...you're gonna need a new manager.

Saul Gone, S6 S13

[MJ Frog]

4 minutes ago, ahmerali said:

Yes fair enough, I appreciate that. It just seems like some people are saying the ending is awesome, and I'm saying that at least as far as Kim is concerned, it really isn't.

Well, considering the man who was probably the love of her life is going to be in jail for the rest of his life, and that she is still vulnerable to consequences from her own confession, things were never going to be great for Kim, but they ended as well as they could for her. Whether or not she even ever sees Jimmy again, I really feel that her knowing that he is no longer the man who told her to "have a nice life" after they signed the divorce papers is something she could take great solace in. It would lift a tremendous psychic weight off her shoulders. And she herself is, I believe, a better person than she was by a mile, more the person she would want to be.

[Ed-]

2 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I can't quite wrap my head around what Jimmy did for Kim. He falsely accused her of having played a part in Howard's murder, which he did in order to get her to come see him in court. And then he made a full confession. How did this benefit Kim? It changed her opinion of him, so it benefited him more than it did her. 

It certainly didn't help (or hurt) her legally. Am I missing something?

I didn't really follow all the plea agreement stuff with Saul running circles around the DA to get his sentence down to 7 years. After a minute or so, I just tuned out what was being said. It was all Greek to me.

I think the chain is like this:

1. Saul scams his way and gets only 7 years. He wants to leave it at that, but he learns Kim is around town trying to get herself locked up (basically).
2. Saul manages to get Kim to show up to the trial by mentioning something important about her on the plane
3. In Saul's mind, the only chance to win Kim back is to "confess" at a cost of greatly increasing his sentence (quotation marks because nothing is really genuine with Saul). He goes ahead with it. 
4. This is where I think Kim becomes aware that it is about her and what Saul thinks her expectation of him must be (compare with how Jimmy used to help Chuck), and as a bonus, this likely helps her stay out of trouble herself
5. In Saul's mind, the scam works, Kim even visits him in prison, and he still hopes to get out by mentioning he can maybe get out on good behavior. We know with that kind of confession it is very unlikely.

It can be said that it is his love for Kim that prevents further crimes and victims; if it wasn't for her he'd be out in 7 or less and back to his old ways.

[Bannon]

4 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

What do you do if you manage a fast food franchise, but can't work because you've been severely wounded in a shootout or you've been arrested by the police?

You act like the professional you are

I enjoyed it, in that it showed that Jimmy McGill was a guy who was willing to selflessly give to others, out of love. This story was always about the complexity of human beings, and this last episode was in that vein.

I would have preferred if it was left more ambiguous as to what Kim's consequences mighy be.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 minutes ago, Ed- said:

 In Saul's mind, the scam works, Kim even visits him in prison, and he still hopes to get out by mentioning he can maybe get out on good behavior. We know with that kind of confession it is very unlikely.

He was kidding about that, and she knew it.

[Simon Boccanegra]

From the Word of Gould:  

"I love the fact that you think it’s a happy ending when you have one character in prison for a very long sentence and the other one who’s under threat of a giant civil action. So yeah! Look, the fact that you think that that’s an optimistic ending means a lot. Our question really became, 'What is the right ending for this guy? What is the right moment to leave him? What is the right moment to leave Kim?' [...]

"I think we just wanted to be honest. We don’t really think about it in terms of 'This is a happy ending' or 'This is a sad ending.' Our fervent hope is that it’s a satisfying ending. We’re just trying to think about what could really happen to these characters and what would they do in the circumstances and how would the world respond to what they do. It’s interesting because we don’t usually think in terms of 'a happy thing' or 'an up thing' or 'a down thing.' Certainly looking back on it, rhythmically, both these characters have gone through some terrible setbacks and they both kinda lost themselves and lost the lives that they built. My mother used to say, 'Where there’s life, there’s hope.' I guess in the end I subscribe to that."

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/better-call-saul-series-finale-explained-interview-1235199278/

[Bannon]

1 minute ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

He was kidding about that, and she knew it.

In the Federal system, an 86 year sentence translates into a minimum of about 73 years. Jimmy's dying in prison.

[Constantinople]

25 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Sam Gravano personally murdered 18 people, and served only a few years, because he could testify against Gotti and others. Most of the people we know Saul could testify against are already dead, but he had other clients, and if, say, he witnessed a major crime by a low level cartel soldier who had in intervening years climbed through the ranks, that would be quite valuable. In addition, he was a major money launderer, and might know where a huge amount of other drug money is hidden.

I don't think the DOJ will care so much about Badger, Jimmy In-'N-Out, Ira, Huell, Kuby and Francesca that they'll agree to 7 years at Club Fed after offering him 25-30 years.

The one person they might be interested in is Ed the Disappearer because that would lead them to a number of criminals, including Jesse. I'd have to watch the episode again, but I don't think Saul said anything about him to the authorities.

And has it really gotten to the point where viewers are expected to make up characters who never appeared once in either series, to commit crimes that were never aired in any episode., to justify Saul's sweetheart deal, and in the series finale no less? 

That's even worse than a Deus ex Machina, which at least appears on stage.

[Sharper2002]

58 minutes ago, ahmerali said:

And Kim's 'atonement'...I'm sorry, this is pathetic. She might face a civil trial? If she's visiting Jimmy in ADX Montrose, then I'm guessing that Cheryl Hamlin isn't working at breakneck speed, despite what Bill Oakley says. I don't see her 'atonement' as anything more than somewhere between "I'm getting away with it, and poor me look I'm so scarred by what I did", and "OK, I just won't do that any more and I feel really bad and I'll just be on the receiving end of yup yup nookie for a long time".

This. She got off clean compared to the collateral damage her actions put in motion. Cheryl likely realizes she won’t get much from Kim if she pursues a civil suit, but it’s something. Otherwise, I guess the bad wig and bad sex with a mandels-wearing “yup” man is enough punishment per G&G.

[MJ Frog]

24 minutes ago, Dev F said:

But here Jimmy showed her that she could redeem the hopeless not by conning the system into a fairer outcome, but simply by providing an example of decency for him to follow. He affirmed that her fondest hopes were possible without unleashing her greatest fears. After the events of the last episode seemed to suggest exactly the opposite—that Kim coming forward would benefit no one and only make her own life more miserable—it's quite an important thing to show her.

This? Is great.

Also, it occurs to me that they both told each other to confess and, by God, they both did. It was like an act of faith in each other. 

[Marley]

I loved it and thought it was amazing. I can’t explain why but it was satisfying to me. I know it’s wrong but I was still rooting for Jimmy and Kim in the end lol.

[Bannon]

8 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

I don't think the DOJ will care so much about Badger, Jimmy In-'N-Out, Ira, Huell, Kuby and Francesca that they'll agree to 7 years at Club Fed after offering him 25-30 years.

The one person they might be interested in is Ed the Disappearer because that would lead them to a number of criminals, including Jesse. I'd have to watch the episode again, but I don't think Saul said anything about him to the authorities.

And has it really gotten to the point where viewers are expected to make up characters who never appeared once in either series, to commit crimes that were never aired in any episode., to justify Saul's sweetheart deal, and in the series finale no less? 

That's even worse than a Deus ex Machina, which at least appears on stage.

Saul was witness to hundreds of criminals, some of them quite nortorious. Some of the crimes real life kingpin El Chapo went away for were committed as a very young low level soldier, that people testified to years later, as part of plea deals. If somebody doesn't like an episode, I won't try  to convince them otherwise, but as a matter of reality, the DoJ has let criminals far worse than Saul Goodman skate every bit as easily, sometimes more easily, than what Saul was offered, when there was something to trade. Somebody like Saul, especially the money laundering side of Saul, would have decent chance of having something to trade. Like I said, if somebody doesn't like how that was depicted, I get it. It didn't bother me, however.

[Dev F]

So did anyone else notice that in the flashback scene with Chuck, which takes place shortly before the first episode of the series (see, e.g., the moment when Jimmy talks about possibly getting Chuck a copy of the Financial Times, which he brings him for the first time in "Uno"), Jimmy is wearing what appears to be Marco's pinky ring, even though he didn't receive it until the end of season 1, after his and Chuck's falling-out?

I tried to work out a way that it's not just a wardrobe flub—say, by reading it as another take on regrets and paths not taken, if Jimmy used to wear his own tacky pinky ring but stopped just before the start of the series because of the itch of Chuck's disapproval, only to start wearing Marco's after his falling out with his brother. But that really doesn't seem to jibe with the end of season 1, which makes a big deal about the fact that the ring is a new affectation for Jimmy—he even mentions at Marco's funeral, "I'm not a big ring guy"—so I'm having a hard time reading it as anything other than a whoopsie.

[Dobian]

And so Saul ends, not with a bang, but a whimper.

I enjoyed the flashback with Chuck.  I was wondering if they would bring him back one last time and they did.

The other highlight was the bus ride with the prisoners chanting his name.

So Saul gets a conscience at the end and blows his plea deal for a life sentence.  Predictable and kind of boring.

Good that they remembered Hank and Gomez, and what Jimmy did to Chuck.

They could have ended with him being Saul again in the prison, giving free legal advice to his newfound prison clients.  Guys waiting in line to go into his cell...um...office.

So long, Saul.

[gallimaufry]

There was an interview I saw a few weeks ago where Bob Odenkirk spoke to Rhea Seehorn when he had read the finale and she hadn't and she asked what he thought.  He said it was a lot to think about but he thinks it was perfect.  I think I agree but it will take me a long, long time to actually sort out my thoughts.

Three moments that were perfect though:

- "Yeah it was" in the courtroom.  That really broke me.  The compassion for Chuck after all this time and putting the breaking of Jimmy's soul down to that choice was unbelievable.

- The revelation of "The Time Machine" which was in Saul's palace and Jimmy's bedside in episode 1.  I gasped.  Chuck triggering the voice of regret all the way through - he was always the one trying to drag Jimmy to a different path and maybe if we went back early enough there was a time when Chuck's judgment of his brother hadn't calcified into contempt.  Perfection.  

- The arrival of the end credits so abruptly just as we're hoping for Kim to turn around AND YET IT'S SO MUCH BETTER THAT SHE DOESN'T RECIPROCATE.  That cut was absolute perfection.

There are so many other great ideas.  The time machine motif with Mike, Walt and Chuck.  The use of Marie who was so, so underserved at the end of BB and really got her moment to shine here.  The fact that he wants to be Jimmy but for the rest of his life will be called "Saul".  The colour in the cigarette flame which is an essay in itself.  Getting to see Saul's wheeler-dealing brilliance which is what I've missed all season -- the Howard scam was all ugly grifting but none of the razzle-dazzle that made Saul so compelling.

As a series, I think there are parts that were missed -- I definitely felt Mike and Gus were underserved at the end.

But fundamentally, the finale made me laugh, it made me gasp, it made my cry and left me with my mouth hanging open and that's pretty awesome.

[millennium]

I think they could have done better than ripping off the Seinfeld finale.  😉

No justice for Drew Sharpe.  That's my biggest complaint.  When the prosecutor was going down the list of Saul's crimes, citing accessory after the fact to the murders of two federal agents and ten prisoners, I was hoping he'd bring up the murder of Drew Sharpe, too.   And when Saul and Walter were in the basement and Saul asked him if he had any regrets ... for an instant, I thought maybe Walt would say the boy they killed in the desert and then melted down in a barrel of acid along with his bike.  But of course he didn't because Walter White cares about no one but himself.

This must mean the police never found any copies of Jesse's recorded confession when they searched the neo-Nazi compound after Walt shot it up, because during that confession Jesse clearly mentioned Drew Sharpe, and Saul would have been charged for that too.  But he wasn't.   (I'm not even sure Saul knew about Drew Sharpe.)

Drew Sharpe's parents will never learn what became of him.   I don't know, maybe that's better than knowing the truth.   But I see it as one big loose end in the overall story.

Wouldn't Saul's capture, arrest and trial have caused a media circus?  The Walter White story, the chemistry teacher who built a meth empire, was national news.   Now after two years on the lam, White's accomplice, the colorful, larger-than-life criminal defense attorney "Better Call Saul" Goodman had been apprehended, taken down by a sharp-eyed 90-year-old woman.  Wouldn't reporters and looky-loo's be falling over each other to get a seat in the courtroom at Saul's sentencing?  Especially since they were deprived of all that by Walt's death and Jesse's escape?   Yet this show made the sentencing look like a sleepy family court hearing.   I could have done with at least some crowds and cameras outside the courthouse.

P.S.  Marie looked great!  Think her suit was purple?

Edited August 16, 2022 by millennium