S01.E01: The Heirs of the Dragon

[PurpleTentacle]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Weird, I always thought "Dracarys" was a Dothraki words.

Nope, it's Valyrian. It came up in the first seasons once or twice that Dany speaks it, but then the writers kinda forgot about it.

1 hour ago, magdalene said:

But I distinctly remember from GOT that the Maesters hated the Targaryans. 

I distinctly don't remember that. Do you have an episode or even scene you could point me to?

1 hour ago, Roccos Brother said:

I'm going to echo what some have already said about the CGI looking surprisingly fake, especially whenever we see shots of the Red Keep or King's Landing in the background. I read that the budget for HOTD is actually higher than GoT's, and with rapid technological advances I don't understand why so much of this show looks comparatively... cheap.

It might be that you just can't find good CGI artists at the moment. They are all overworked and can only do so much. See also the horrible CGI in She-Hulk.

Though I would take this show having a higher budget than GoT with a spoon of salt. It probably has a much higher budget than GoT had in its first season, but that isn't saying much.

1 hour ago, Kate47 said:

I did like the "problem like Maria" conversation between the King and Hightower re: Daemon. Can't make him Master of Coin because you say he's either stealing or thrifting, can't stick him in the City Watch because you think he's amassing a personal army, so what exactly should be done with the second son who's got all that ambition and a temper to go along with it?

Best solution: murder. Second best solution: exile. Third best solution: send him back to his wife before he builds himself a personal army, not after.

[Constantinople]

They missed out putting in some tasteful and discreet product placement.

Unseen announcer: Prince Viserys, you've just been named the Heir to the Iron Throne! What are you going to do next?

Viserys: I'm going to Disney World!

[go4luca]

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

Daemon also strikes me as the type who likes the idea of being in power (It's good to be King!) but would be bored out of his mind with the mundane reality of ruling.  Viserys says as much and I think he's right about that.  So a lot like Robert, but with a nastier edge.  He'd probably be happy if Viserys gave him an army and sent him out to conquer someone.

This.  +💯

Spoiler

Matt Smith infers as much in his character study video posted at HBO's HOTD site. 

Aside from thriving in chaos, I think Daemon would really love to clean house re: the Small Council.

Edited August 23, 2022 by go4luca
Added spoiler tag

[AryasMum]

8 hours ago, aghst said:

Even if he did care, would it keep him from marrying her off to a mad king?

Also, weren't the Starks going to marry off Sansa to Joffrey?  They didn't see right away what an asshole he was but the way he had Arya's little friend punished, they probably could have guessed.

I think even familial love was overshadowed by naked ambition. Thomas Boleyn whored out both his daughters. And the Seymours were more than happy to marry off their sister to the man who had defied the Vatican to humiliate and divorce his first wife (and keep her away from their daughter for the rest of her life), and then framed his second wife so her head would be conveniently chopped off. 
 

And yes, Ned obviously had his hands full, but he didn’t immediately break Sansa’s betrothal with the whiny, mama’s boy pissant.   
 

It didn’t bother me, but they were clearly Dany fan-baiting by first focusing on Rhaenyra’s long white hair before we saw the rest of her. 
 

Regarding Visery’s dark stubble, Dany and her Viserys drove me crazy with the black brows. First season they seemed to lighten Emilia’s brows, but from then on they were wiggly black caterpillars. 

[aghst]

It's suppose to be an honor when the King proposes that some lord under him give him his daughter to marry or betroth her to a young prince, as the proposal for Joffrey to marry Sansa.

Ned probably couldn't say no at that point.

I'm surprised Hightower would even send Alicent to Viserys late at night like that.  Probably they go through official channels and the King asks for her hand or proposes.

The king and the young maiden are not suppose to hook up so that the king wants to marry her.

Hightower could basically tell Viserys that he could still have a male heir and that he would be honored if the King would take his young, nubile daughter to bear him sons.

[Brn2bwild]

I liked this episode, but wasn't super taken with it.  Hopefully it will become more engrossing in the coming weeks.

What disappointed me was that the tone and color palate really felt like late-series Game of Thrones, dark and very joyless.  While the Targaryens were always a brutal, dysfunctional, warring lot, stories of the past times in GoT/ASoIaF always seemed to render them as larger-than-life.  I expected to see color and flamboyancy.  Posing peacock stances.  Moments where we think: "OMG, they're so awesome, and they know it."  Instead, this all felt like King Robert's court with silver hair.  Even the pilot episode of GoT had more color and joy to it.  

[Stardancer Supreme]

21 hours ago, rollacoaster said:

Princess Rhaenys Targaryen must be so sick of that fucking title. 

I know I would be tired of that constant backhanded insult of being "The Queen Who Never Was".  I would ask for the tongues, then the heads of anyone who called me that to my face! Dracarys! 

I'm in, though I thank Twitter for the warning about the horrific childbirth scenes.

[bunnyblue]

4 hours ago, ZeeEnnui said:

Anyone else get skeeved out by the tension between Daemon and Rhaenyra in the Iron Throne room? Lots of creepy uncle incest touch vibes.

I see we have Shae 2.0 (or because this is the past, I guess 1.0).

Yeah there was definitely some weird incest vibes going on there. I really hope that's not where this goes, but considering we just got done with an Aunt/Nephew relationship in GOT, I shouldn't be surprised if this time we get an Uncle/Niece incestuous relationship. 

Oh God, I'd forgotten about Shae, but your comparison is apt. I hope Shae 1.0 isn't as annoying as original Shae. And was she on the back of the dragon with Daemon when he flew out of King's Landing? The CG was kind of iffy in that scene but I thought I saw a white cloak flapping in the wind. 

Someone asked which "Dracarys" we prefer. Until I hear Rhaenyra say it again or any other dragon rider say it, I have to go with Dany's Dracarys - it was the first and it's iconic. I'm still bitter Jon Snow never got to say it. 

The last name Hightower sounds familiar but I can't remember if there was a Hightower in GOT. Was there?

[Broderbits]

37 minutes ago, bunnyblue said:

The last name Hightower sounds familiar but I can't remember if there was a Hightower in GOT. Was there?

Yes, there's a House Hightower: https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Hightower

[Cirien]

56 minutes ago, bunnyblue said:

Yeah there was definitely some weird incest vibes going on there. I really hope that's not where this goes, but considering we just got done with an Aunt/Nephew relationship in GOT, I shouldn't be surprised if this time we get an Uncle/Niece incestuous relationship. 

Oh God, I'd forgotten about Shae, but your comparison is apt. I hope Shae 1.0 isn't as annoying as original Shae. And was she on the back of the dragon with Daemon when he flew out of King's Landing? The CG was kind of iffy in that scene but I thought I saw a white cloak flapping in the wind. 

Someone asked which "Dracarys" we prefer. Until I hear Rhaenyra say it again or any other dragon rider say it, I have to go with Dany's Dracarys - it was the first and it's iconic. I'm still bitter Jon Snow never got to say it. 

The last name Hightower sounds familiar but I can't remember if there was a Hightower in GOT. Was there?

That appeared to be Daemon's *wife* Lady Rhea Royce and if that was then they were at Runestone

[Featherhat]

In terms of Visery's character or first marriage mattering in marrying Alicent or anyone else to him, I think it does. Most men even in a patriarchal society would prefer to marry their daughters to a King who would treat them well rather than a Mad King or Joffrey. 

Of course many would still do it but most would still prefer to be able to say "I've picked out a decent man for you" rather than know it's a toss up whether your daughter (and any power and alliance gained from the marriage) even lasts the year. There are surviving letters where ambassadors and those negotiating political matches tell their masters and the princesses who are about to be shipped off "he's handsome and of noble character, has clean habits and treats his mistresses well." Whether that was completely true or not was a different matter but there was some effort put in to reassuring everyone of a potential successful match.

Olena and Margaery got the brutal facts from Sansa and were still plotting how to handle Joffrey in a way that ensured he wouldn't sadistically torture her immediately and came closest to succeeding but once it became clear that it wouldn't work long term, Olena handled him. 

Even in real world medieval Europe once someone got a certain reputation for how they treated their wives, a lot of top tier wealthy, powerful Kings decided that their sisters and daughters could marry a different King or powerful lord, leaving only ones from smaller, less wealth/powerful states or lesser nobles who were desperate enough for an alliance. 

[Haleth]

Just pop out a couple boys and he will go back to his mistresses and leave you alone.  I'm sure that's what ambitious fathers at court told their daughters.

I confused the Hightowers with the Tyrells.  Because of all the not too subtle reminders in this show of GoT I was looking for roses on Alicent's dress.  She looks similar to Margaery but is obviously a sweeter, innocent girl.

I cringed when Daemon's prostitute spoke with the same (to my ear, anyway) accent as Shae.  Come on, show, you can do better than that.

[chediavolo]

Doesn’t hold a candle to Game of Thrones, but I will give it another try. Just seems to have about 1/8 of the budget and plenty actors that are just fine but not killing it.  
On a shallow note I kept getting distracted by Rhaenyra’s very much 12-year-old looking face and her prominent mouth.  And for such an important role they couldn’t have found someone with more of a presence, a better actor?
 Also agree all that flowing white hair kept reminding me of Lord of the Rings. 

[areca]

On 8/21/2022 at 10:30 PM, AntFTW said:

It's entirely possible, and maybe even plausible, that Aemma would have died in childbirth anyway but this... was unnecessary cruelty.

It's really not.  When allowed to labor naturally, over 70% of breech births can be safely born via the standard process as long as the medicos keep their hands off the baby.

Guys - I didn't love it.  In fact, I was bored by the whole thing. There was too much D&D and not enough GRRM and we know how that ends up.  Have fun with this show, I'm out.

[Athena5217]

10 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

I liked this episode, but wasn't super taken with it.  Hopefully it will become more engrossing in the coming weeks.

What disappointed me was that the tone and color palate really felt like late-series Game of Thrones, dark and very joyless.  While the Targaryens were always a brutal, dysfunctional, warring lot, stories of the past times in GoT/ASoIaF always seemed to render them as larger-than-life.  I expected to see color and flamboyancy.  Posing peacock stances.  Moments where we think: "OMG, they're so awesome, and they know it."  Instead, this all felt like King Robert's court with silver hair.  Even the pilot episode of GoT had more color and joy to it.  

I found the color palette for this show distinct. The red seemed much brighter. Overall, I think it was brighter, which makes sense because this is  still that endless summer and it is a more peaceful, happy age. 
 

I realize it is weird to call this a peaceful happy age given that we saw several dismemberments, tournament deaths, and a tragic childbirth death, but it’s relative.

[Pop Tart]

I mentioned in another post that I think Daemon will be a gray character rather than a black hat villain (though he did wear that black winged helmet, I know). My opinion based on his relationships with his brother and niece, but there's another  moment that makes me think he's not mustache-twirling-evil, and that's how he responded to being bested at the tournament. He accepted it and that was it. 

If it had been Joffrey bested by an unknown he'd have tortured the guy who bested him and his horse and his family and the entire stadium of people who'd seen it happen. 

Daemon feels like a cross between Jamie and Tyrion - he has Jamie's brash (brutal) affect but I think he's got Tyrion's smarts.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Weird, I always thought "Dracarys" was a Dothraki words.

Quote

Doubtful, since Dothrakis never domesticated dragons...

I meant that Daenerys was speaking Dothraki when she was raising the dragons. I know it makes sense that she also spoke Valerian but I don't remember that ever being specified during GoT. I always assumed "Dracarys" was Dothraki for "burn them." Maybe it means that in Valerian instead. If it's some magical word only dragons understand, I don't know how Dany would have learned it.

Quote

The last name Hightower sounds familiar but I can't remember if there was a Hightower in GOT. Was there?

Quote

Yes, there's a House Hightower:

I know there was a House Hightower but I don't remember any Hightower characters in GoT (TV show). I don't remember any Velaryons in GoT either. 

In this time period, are the Hightowers wardens of the Reach? Or are the Tyrells? 

[tennisgurl]

1 hour ago, Pop Tart said:

I mentioned in another post that I think Daemon will be a gray character rather than a black hat villain (though he did wear that black winged helmet, I know).

I tend to think the same. He's clearly not a good guy, but I don't think he's going to be a Roose or a Joffrey who are just monsters. His attacks on the criminals of Kings Landing were brutal, but that IS what he was apparently asked to do, even if his brother presumably assumed that there would be less limbs being hacked off in the middle of town. By Westeros standards, he could probably justify it as harsh but necessary to start cleaning up a city that is famous for crime and violence. And for all the small counsel seems to be preparing for him to try and usurp his brother at any time, he still hasn't made an actual move against him. he even seemed to be a bit ashamed of himself for a second when Viserys called him out on his rude jokes in the brothel, before he doubled down. I think the show will lean towards the early conflicts of GoT in whatever is clearly coming, where most people were more gray than fully good or evil and you had people on multiple sides of the conflict that you could root for, or at least find understandable. 

[TaraS1]

I'm not a Matt Smith fan, so I considered not watching when I first heard he'd been cast, but my love for all things Targaryen won out.  It wasn't perfect, but I love palace intrigue, royal pomp and circumstance, succession battles, etc., so it was right up my alley. (Still don't like Matt Smith, but I guess that works with this role.)

[PurpleTentacle]

On 8/23/2022 at 3:31 AM, AryasMum said:

Regarding Visery’s dark stubble, Dany and her Viserys drove me crazy with the black brows. First season they seemed to lighten Emilia’s brows, but from then on they were wiggly black caterpillars. 

If I remember correctly she had a bad reaction to the dye, so they just stoped using it. Not sure if there would have been an alternative.

On 8/23/2022 at 4:29 AM, Stardancer Supreme said:

I know I would be tired of that constant backhanded insult of being "The Queen Who Never Was".  I would ask for the tongues, then the heads of anyone who called me that to my face! Dracarys! 

I also thought at first it was a backhanded insult, but the conversation between the king and his hand afterwards made it clear, that it's actually a sign of support and while it's very vailed, I can see how. They are literally calling her "the queen", even if there is the "never was" adendum. It's another way of saying "the woman who should have been queen and I'm still salty about her not getting it."

On 8/23/2022 at 1:45 PM, chediavolo said:

On a shallow note I kept getting distracted by Rhaenyra’s very much 12-year-old looking face and her prominent mouth.  And for such an important role they couldn’t have found someone with more of a presence, a better actor?

I like the actress. She seemed to strike a good balance between being confident and clever enough to be considered for the job and yet sufficiently intimidated of what the job will require of her.

On 8/23/2022 at 2:16 PM, areca said:

It's really not.  When allowed to labor naturally, over 70% of breech births can be safely born via the standard process as long as the medicos keep their hands off the baby.

The Maesters were sure she would die either way. So either she was among the 30% or the Maesters just suck and she actually would have survived, which is a distinct possibility.

On 8/23/2022 at 2:56 PM, Athena5217 said:

I found the color palette for this show distinct. The red seemed much brighter. Overall, I think it was brighter, which makes sense because this is  still that endless summer and it is a more peaceful, happy age. 

This isn't the same summer as in GoT. There would have been quite a few winters between the two shows.

On 8/23/2022 at 3:50 PM, Pop Tart said:

My opinion based on his relationships with his brother and niece, but there's another  moment that makes me think he's not mustache-twirling-evil, and that's how he responded to being bested at the tournament. He accepted it and that was it. 

No he didn't. He flew off the handle after being bested in a jousting match, tried to kill the other guy (which is apparently perfectly legal) and only yielded after it was clear he'd die otherwise. He handled that about as badly as one could.

On 8/23/2022 at 3:50 PM, Pop Tart said:

If it had been Joffrey bested by an unknown he'd have tortured the guy who bested him and his horse and his family and the entire stadium of people who'd seen it happen. 

Daemon is not the king. He doesn't have the power to torture a knight. That would have been a major political nono and probably would have gotten him kicked out of the succession even earlier. Daemon isn't that dumb. He's just dumb enough to not think that there are spies everywhere.

On 8/23/2022 at 5:29 PM, iMonrey said:

I know it makes sense that she also spoke Valerian but I don't remember that ever being specified during GoT.

She spoke valyrian when she spoke to the slaves and the slavers.

Edit: Here is the epic scene where she (first?) speaks valyrian:

On 8/23/2022 at 5:39 PM, tennisgurl said:

His attacks on the criminals of Kings Landing were brutal, but that IS what he was apparently asked to do, even if his brother presumably assumed that there would be less limbs being hacked off in the middle of town.

But it's not. There was a reason the small council wasn't happy about it and there was a blink and you missed it suggestion, that a judge should have handed out those sentences and presumably an executioner should have done the dismemberments (alternatively the king could have also done one or both, but I don't think anybody but the Starks are that hands on). Even in medieval times, the cops weren't supposed to be judges and executioners.

They didn't explain what the problem was very well though, so I can completely understand missing it. There were a few other instances of that in this episode. Maybe somebody needs to go over GRRMs clever dialouges and look if somebody, who is watching from the outside, can actually still understand what is going on.

Edited August 25, 2022 by PurpleTentacle

[Pop Tart]

20 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

No he didn't. He flew off the handle after being bested in a jousting match, tried to kill the other guy (which is apparently perfectly legal) and only yielded after it was clear he'd die otherwise. He handled that about as badly as one could.

I was talking about him being bested in the on-foot sword-match, after he got angry about losing the joust. So agree with you that he got angry and continued the bout off the horses, but he yielded when he was bested and then was done.

I just meant that he didn't pursue anything beyond the match. He didn't seek the guy out later and murder him (or worse, and there's far worse in the GoT world). As far as we know at this point anyway. 

Not saying he's a good guy, but by GoT standards, I don't think he's all evil either.

[PurpleTentacle]

5 minutes ago, Pop Tart said:

I just meant that he didn't pursue anything beyond the match. He didn't seek the guy out later and murder him (or worse, and there's far worse in the GoT world). As far as we know at this point anyway. 

And as I said in my post, he just doesn't have the power to do that without some major consequences. Joffrey was the king. Daemon is just the little brother of the king. Still a lord, but if you fuck with a knight who isn't one of yours and it's during a tourney the king is hosting, that's not going to be just the stern talking to you'd get after dismembering some commoners.

7 minutes ago, Pop Tart said:

Not saying he's a good guy, but by GoT standards, I don't think he's all evil either.

Time will tell. But him not being able to torture people who bested him, because he lacks the power to do so, is certainly no indication either way.

[Constantinople]

14 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

I know I would be tired of that constant backhanded insult of being "The Queen Who Never Was".  I would ask for the tongues, then the heads of anyone who called me that to my face! Dracarys!

That reminds me of the old line "Better to be a has-been than a never-was"

[magdalene]

29 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

And as I said in my post, he just doesn't have the power to do that without some major consequences. Joffrey was the king. Daemon is just the little brother of the king. Still a lord, but if you fuck with a knight who isn't one of yours and it's during a tourney the king is hosting, that's not going to be just the stern talking to you'd get after dismembering some commoners.

Time will tell. But him not being able to torture people who bested him, because he lacks the power to do so, is certainly no indication either way.

Do you really believe that this king in in particular would choose some nobody knight from Dorne over his brother?   He banished Daemon because his feelings were hurt because nobody can hurt you like family.

I think they love each other, no matter how much they rub against each other and no matter how how much Daemon pisses his brother off.

I also think it's far too early to declare Daemon this or that because he doesn't play nice in tourneys or has some rather harsh ideas how criminals ought to be punished.  Personally  I am not heartbroken that some rapists and murderers got their just deserts. Didn't the sainted Ned Stark behead some poor schmuck for being scared and running away?  Westeros isn't a nice place.

[Constantinople]

14 hours ago, bunnyblue said:

The last name Hightower sounds familiar but I can't remember if there was a Hightower in GOT. Was there?

Remember that mad bitchin' sword fight with Young Ned Stark, Young Howland Reed and Arthur Dayne, the guy who fought with two swords? The sword fight that Bran traveled back in time with Max von Sydow to watch?

Gerold Hightower was the other Kingsguard, the one who told Ned "Your friend the usurper would lie beneath the ground if we had been" and who fought with one sword.

So as a practical matter, the answer is No.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Constantinople

[WatchrTina]

10 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Remember that mad bitchin' sword fight with Young Ned Stark, Young Holland Reed and Arthur Dayne, the guy who fought with two swords?

Oh THANK YOU for posting that link (and curse you for ending it too soon!)

And now to bring this post back around to the matter at hand . . . damn -- that episode was hard to watch.  I usually watch the eps 2 or 3 times but I think I'm going to wait a while before giving this one a second viewing.  I know GOT got really gory on many occasions and I stayed tuned through them all; but that "birth" scene was . . . rough.  (Somebody up-thread recollected a similar scene from "I Claudius" and thanks VERY MUCH for dragging that long-forgotten, gory image out of some deep, dark, corner of my memory.  Ah, PBS . . . bringing the ultra-violence to the TV-viewing public LONG before premium cable TV existed. Thanks Masterpiece Theater!)

And speaking of gory . . . I had a really hard time with the Gold Cloaks running though the streets killing indiscriminately.  I know it was presented as though the killings were deliberate and that this was a prescribed "cleaning" of the streets, so only "bad" guys were targeted but . . . how?  I'm willing to offer up a heaping trencher full of willful suspension of disbelief for this show, but I have a hard time wrapping my brain around the idea that the people caught up in that melee in the streets were somehow the exact same "guilty" people who were responsible for the descent of King's Landing into lawlessness.  

At this point I'm not at all clear if we the viewers are supposed to believe that the massacre was ruthless but effective (i.e., it killed off a lot of bad guys and encouraged the rest to leave town) or if we the viewers are supposed to think that it was just an orgy of violence -- a display of wanton disregard for human life in which many innocent people were probably swept up and killed in the frenzy.

[Constantinople]

Nobles from every corner of the realm are right now descending upon King's Landing for my brother's tourney. Do you wanted them mugged, raped, murdered? You mightn't know this unless you left the safety of the Red Keep, but much of King's Landing is seen by the smallfolk as lawless and terrifying. - Daemon

Now I wish there were a Grand Theft Auto: King's Landing tie-in.

[bunnyblue]

32 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Gerold Hightower was the other Kingsguard, the one who told Ned "Your friend the usurper would lie beneath the ground if we had been" and who fought with one sword.

So as a practical matter, the answer is No.

Aha!! That's where I know the Hightower name from. Named in the book but not the show, Gerald Hightower was guarding Lyanna at the Tower.

[PurpleTentacle]

1 hour ago, magdalene said:

Do you really believe that this king in in particular would choose some nobody knight from Dorne over his brother?   He banished Daemon because his feelings were hurt because nobody can hurt you like family.

I think they love each other, no matter how much they rub against each other and no matter how how much Daemon pisses his brother off.

It's not like he'd execute his brother or throw him in jail forever and I never said or implied anything of the sort. But would there have been serious consequences for Daemon? Most assuredly. The small council, who pretty much all hate Daemon, would have convinced the king that something had to be done this time, if he didn't want the lords of westeros to be seriously pissed and possibly start some shit.

It's not just about the knight. It's about the knight being under another lords juristiction and a tourney being considered a political safe space, so to speak. Violating all of that would be a major fuckup. It would call into question if the king can be trusted, if he can't control his own brother and guarantee the safety of his guests.

I could absolutely see Daemon losing sucession rights over that, as those were on shaky ground anyway.

1 hour ago, magdalene said:

I also think it's far too early to declare Daemon this or that because he doesn't play nice in tourneys or has some rather harsh ideas how criminals ought to be punished. 

We've heard that he has shown a lack of restraint and other not so great qualities before.

Also "criminals ought to be punished" is a weird way of framing dismembering people outside of the established judicial system. He could have just rounded up the criminals and given them over to be judged by a judge or the king, like it's supposed to work.

1 hour ago, magdalene said:

Personally  I am not heartbroken that some rapists and murderers got their just deserts.

And you know that all the people he randomly dismembered on the street were guilty how? In fact how could there not have been innocent people amoung them?

I am heartbroken when I hear people confuse violent revenge for justice. It's normal in the world of westeros, but certainly not "just deserts".

1 hour ago, magdalene said:

Didn't the sainted Ned Stark behead some poor schmuck for being scared and running away?

Notice how his guards didn't kill the guy? They brought him to Ned. Ned was the lord of winterfell and he carried out the sentence for desertion, after he determined that the guy was in fact a deserter. Lords can do that in their domains or they can delegate to judges and executioners. It's just that the Starks are very hands on.

-

The jury on Daemon is still out to some extend, but giving him bonus points for not torturing a knight who beat him fair and square, even though he didn't have the power to do so and explaining away him dismembering people, even though that is most assuredly not his job, yikes...

Edited August 23, 2022 by PurpleTentacle

[CletusMusashi]

17 hours ago, AryasMum said:

Regarding Visery’s dark stubble, Dany and her Viserys drove me crazy with the black brows. First season they seemed to lighten Emilia’s brows, but from then on they were wiggly black caterpillars. 

My explanation for Dany was that she was painting her eyebrows black for sun protection, sort of like wearing kohl. I didn't even know about the actress allergy, but, cool, that's yet another excuse. With King V, though, the hair and makeup department seem to have just randomly decided that it was a good idea for him to look like Fred Flintstone in elf drag.

And, yes, I suppose I have been beating this dead horse into the ground. But, in my defense, some of the wigs and stubble are the funniest dead horses on this show.

Edited August 23, 2022 by CletusMusashi

[Meredith Quill]

In a nutshell, Daemon is most definitely guilty of assholery, but assholery does not automatically mean 'villain'. He's a divisive character. 

[tennisgurl]

Within the shows universe, how Daemon ends up looking might just depends on what happens in the inevitable upcoming conflict. If he looses, he'll be a blood thirsty monster working outside of his brothers wishes to create chaos and bloodshed. If he comes out on top, he's the brave, bold, tough but fair leader who we needed to clean up the streets so that good people can feel safe again. 

It might even be the same thing for the audience. This is an early indicator of his cruelty, or of how he's willing to get his hands dirty for the greater good, depending on how much of a black hat he ends up being. I don't approve of going around hacking people to death without a trial, but it will be interesting how much this does or does not tell us about Daemon and how he will respond to whatever events are upcoming.

[CletusMusashi]

Daemon isn't on the level of Joffrey or Ramsey, but we haven't yet seen anyone on this show who is. If a bigger bad shows up, I may well accept Daemon as an antihero. But so far a few "pet the dog" moments with his niece do not change how much screen time I just saw him spend acting like the most brutal thug in the room. Even Roose Bolton and Cersei Lannister cared about their families, so I'm gonna need to see more than that to actually like him as a person, rather than simply enjoying him as a fictional bad boy character the way that I am now.

[CountryGirl]

8 hours ago, Athena5217 said:

I found the color palette for this show distinct. The red seemed much brighter. Overall, I think it was brighter, which makes sense because this is  still that endless summer and it is a more peaceful, happy age. 

I felt the same - that it was a brighter, more vibrant, golden/sunny lighting. In keeping with it being the long days of summer and a golden age in Westeros. 

And can I say how refreshing it is to not be like this when watching the show?

[Tatum]

If Daemon was correct in that Kings Landing is no longer safe for those living outside the castle, that is a pretty glaring error on both the King and the Hand. Nice as the king may be, I am not sure he's not a dope.

[iMonrey]

Another question: when Ser Criston Cole removes his helmet after the jousting match, either Rhaenyra or Alicent says "Gods, he's Dornish." How could they tell just by looking at him? 

[CountryGirl]

3 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Another question: when Ser Criston Cole removes his helmet after the jousting match, either Rhaenyra or Alicent says "Gods, he's Dornish." How could they tell just by looking at him? 

He’s hot. All the hotties are from Dorne. See also Oberyn and Doran Martell. 

[snickers]

22 hours ago, Cirien said:

Oh God, I'd forgotten about Shae, but your comparison is apt. I hope Shae 1.0 isn't as annoying as original Shae. And was she on the back of the dragon with Daemon when he flew out of King's Landing? The CG was kind of iffy in that scene but I thought I saw a white cloak flapping in the wind. 

22 hours ago, Cirien said:

That appeared to be Daemon's *wife* Lady Rhea Royce and if that was then they were at Runestone

The CGI was iffy, but I'm pretty sure that was his mistress from the brothel, considering all the lovely names he was calling his *wife* I don't think he would be taking her a joy ride on Caraxes and I think it was pretty obvious dude wasn't going to Runestone anytime soon, most likely going to Dragonstone

Spoiler

(which plenty of trailers have shown he goes back to)

14 hours ago, chediavolo said:

Doesn’t hold a candle to Game of Thrones, but I will give it another try. Just seems to have about 1/8 of the budget and plenty actors that are just fine but not killing it.  

I don't think anyone can fairly say this after 1 episode compared to what, 75 episodes of GOT? Yet wasn't there a revolt from the fandom considering how the show declined after what? Season 4  😉

As for the budget, I'm hearing 10-12 million per episode? Surprising given how I was little underwhelmed by the opening CGI with Syrax....but it was still better than Dany riding Drogon for the first time (that was still worse CGI)

I really enjoyed it, granted there's not as many characters but i think people forget a lot of the GOT characters came into play later on, I personally don't like how a lot of the names are too similar sounding and 80% of the characters being Targaryen's don't help because they all have the long blonde hair, but I always felt the GRRM world and its characters were episodes that required repeated viewings and not a series you watch once if you truly want to grasp/understand the material/plot if you are not a book reader (I myself only read book 1 so far)

And they are saying 10 million viewers on night 1? I'd say for all the people who were going to boycott, they are secretly hate watching 😄

[Athena5217]

11 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

This isn't the same summer as in GoT. There would have been quite a few winters between the two shows.

I know. I was thinking this was probably during the height of one of those years long summers while in GoT it was the end of summer.

Was anyone else appalled by Rhaenyra ripping the page out of that book? It probably took at least two years to produce that manuscript volume, and she ruined it. This probably was not intended, but I thought it was a good contrast with her father, who has obviously spent a long time working on that sculpture. He creates and she destroys.

[magdalene]

I really like the design for Caraxes. All the GOT dragons kind of looked alike just with different coloring. His head has a very distinct almost dog like shape and he looks grumpy cute in an adorable way. With a bit of a foul temper. Nobody is perfect. I am sure he doesn't snack on everybody who annoys him. A good dragon boy, heh. I wish he would snack on Pimp daddy Hightower. I already have a wish list  for possible Caraxes snacks.

The woman flying away with Daemon on dragon back was definitely Lady Misery from the brothel.

[go4luca]

2 hours ago, snickers said:

As for the budget, I'm hearing 10-12 million per episode?

Sources I've read list $20 million per episode.  I doubt they are going to shoot their wad on one episode.  Always nice to build towards something.  Great Sept of Baelor anyone?

38 minutes ago, magdalene said:

I already have a wish list  for possible Caraxes snacks.

This literally made me chuckle out loud.  Caraxes snacks...snort!  You may set a trend with yours being the new Arya assassin's hit list.

[Constantinople]

1 hour ago, Athena5217 said:

Was anyone else appalled by Rhaenyra ripping the page out of that book? It probably took at least two years to produce that manuscript volume, and she ruined it.

Good point.

Who does that remind you of?

[Meredith Quill]

5 hours ago, go4luca said:

Great Sept of Baelor anyone?

Way premature, heh.

[meep.meep]

On 8/22/2022 at 6:31 PM, AryasMum said:

It didn’t bother me, but they were clearly Dany fan-baiting by first focusing on Rhaenyra’s long white hair before we saw the rest of her. 

She was also wearing the exact same dark gray wool coat that Dany wore in the last seasons of GOT.

The wigs, the wigs!  Can we just call the black guy Ezekiel?

Isn't House Tyrell's seat called High Garden?  That maybe where some of the confusion over the Hightowers is coming in.

Guess I'm the only one who watched The Knick.  They did a C section sans anesthesia in their pilot episode.

I wouldn't give this more than a C.  And the two cheesy elements near the end really pissed me off.

[kassandra8286]

On 8/22/2022 at 5:41 PM, PurpleTentacle said:

On 8/22/2022 at 3:38 PM, magdalene said:

But I distinctly remember from GOT that the Maesters hated the Targaryans. 

I distinctly don't remember that. Do you have an episode or even scene you could point me to?

I don't remember that either, but even if so, the Targaryens were deposed former rulers in GOT so openly expressing support or even kind words for them would likely get you the side-eye, if not executed for treason. I'm sure the during their centuries of rule Targaryens had plenty of loyal Maesters. 

On 8/23/2022 at 5:16 AM, areca said:

On 8/21/2022 at 7:30 PM, AntFTW said:

It's entirely possible, and maybe even plausible, that Aemma would have died in childbirth anyway but this... was unnecessary cruelty.

It's really not.  When allowed to labor naturally, over 70% of breech births can be safely born via the standard process as long as the medicos keep their hands off the baby.

I don't recall any mention of midwives or other types of medical professionals other than Maesters in Westeros, which is unfortunate, as Maesters in general don't seem to be very competent. Do they do much more than apply leeches or dose patients with milk of the poppy? I feel like if you're grievously injured or fall ill in the GOT world, you're pretty much doomed.

[AntFTW]

4 minutes ago, kassandra8286 said:

Do they do much more than apply leeches or dose patients with milk of the poppy?

Does curing greyscale count?

I wonder if the greyscale treatment exists during the time of HOTD.

[Dewey Decimate]

19 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

He’s hot. All the hotties are from Dorne. See also Oberyn and Doran Martell. 

Hell yeah, Dornish and Dothraki. (I may have a type.)

Some have commented already on how Daemon's mistress sounds a whole lot like Shae, but I kept thinking about how similar many of their voices sound like previous characters. To me, Daemon's accent reminds me of Ramsey Bolton's, the stout Small Council guy who looks kinda like Sam also sounds like Sam, and someone else on the SC (maybe Hightower?) sounds just like gold ol' Ser Davos the Onion Knight. Maybe there are just so many dialects out there or my ear is not discerning enough. Now I'm keeping fingers crossed for the silky smooth voice of Roose Bolton in a new character (with a hopefully better good/evil alignment).

[CountryGirl]

19 minutes ago, Dewey Decimate said:

Hell yeah, Dornish and Dothraki. (I may have a type.)

Some have commented already on how Daemon's mistress sounds a whole lot like Shae, but I kept thinking about how similar many of their voices sound like previous characters. To me, Daemon's accent reminds me of Ramsey Bolton's, the stout Small Council guy who looks kinda like Sam also sounds like Sam, and someone else on the SC (maybe Hightower?) sounds just like gold ol' Ser Davos the Onion Knight. Maybe there are just so many dialects out there or my ear is not discerning enough. Now I'm keeping fingers crossed for the silky smooth voice of Roose Bolton in a new character (with a hopefully better good/evil alignment).

I thought Matt/Daemon sounded like Ramsey as well. 

And yes, Dornish and Dothraki are my types, too. 

[Meredith Quill]

15 hours ago, Dewey Decimate said:

Hell yeah, Dornish and Dothraki. (I may have a type.)

Some have commented already on how Daemon's mistress sounds a whole lot like Shae, but I kept thinking about how similar many of their voices sound like previous characters. To me, Daemon's accent reminds me of Ramsey Bolton's, the stout Small Council guy who looks kinda like Sam also sounds like Sam, and someone else on the SC (maybe Hightower?) sounds just like gold ol' Ser Davos the Onion Knight. Maybe there are just so many dialects out there or my ear is not discerning enough. Now I'm keeping fingers crossed for the silky smooth voice of Roose Bolton in a new character (with a hopefully better good/evil alignment).

Mysaria doesn't have the same accent as Shae.

The actress who played Shae is from Germany and has a German accent. The actress who plays Mysaria was born in Japan to a half British mother and a Japanese father and was raised in England. Therefore, she definitely does not speak with a German accent, her natural accent would be an English one (with perhaps a Japanese twang - or not - depending on how much of her childhood was spent there), I guess watching an interview with her would settle that. It sounded to me like she was using a slight Japanese type of accent.

Matt Smith comes from my old stomping ground, so has a similar English accent to my own. Ramsey Bolton's actor, Iwan Rheon is Welsh, meaning he used an English accent he'd learned, so possible he may sound similar to MS but not really. Roose Bolton aka Michael McElhatton is Irish, so again he was using a learned English accent of some unknown type.

[MBayGal]

On 8/23/2022 at 11:22 AM, WatchrTina said:

At this point I'm not at all clear if we the viewers are supposed to believe that the massacre was ruthless but effective (i.e., it killed off a lot of bad guys and encouraged the rest to leave town) or if we the viewers are supposed to think that it was just an orgy of violence -- a display of wanton disregard for human life in which many innocent people were probably swept up and killed in the frenzy.

I am going with " orgy of violence.....wanton disregard for human life..."