S12.E05: In Hot Water

[Surrealist]

7 minutes ago, glowbug said:

What I take issue with, and what I think Crystal needs to apologize for and be contrite about, is that she mentioned it at all while claiming to be friends with Sutton, especially after having discussed the issue privately and been given an apology, which Crystal says she believes to be sincere and has accepted. 

This is what I'm having a problem with because it doesn't make sense, which makes me think producer-driven.

[Surrealist]

9 minutes ago, CallmeCray said:

I have a feeling her relationship with her psychotherapist mom has something to do with it, but I’m no expert, that’s for damn sure.  I’m guessing a lot was expected of Sutton and she’s hypersensitive to criticism.  I do feel bad for her in many ways, but that doesn’t make the consequences of her actions and the feelings of the others any less valid.

I was wondering about this too. Didn't Sutton mention, or allude to, a strained relationship with her mother, especially regarding her father's suicide? Not that any of this excuses Sutton's blunders, but I think it provides insight into why she's wound so tightly.

I also wonder if Garcelle's consistent defenses of her are because she knows more about what's going on with Sutton that Sutton hasn't revealed in front of the cameras or to the others. They seem to have a genuine friendship off camera.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Surrealist

[princelina]

23 hours ago, Set Them Free said:

I like Crystal.  Still, when Garcelle basically insinuated that Crystal had nefarious motives with Sutton, Crystal should have just said “I am sorry you feel that way” and moved on.  She could have avoided obvious trap.  

This!!!  She could have said, "No, we've worked it out and are friends with no hard feelings."  Instead she went with, "You don't know what she REALLY did, and it was too bad for me to tell you now.  Since I'm her friend." 🙄

[RealHousewife]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

It's funny to read that Crystal saying the Rorschach comment was obviously done with the worst of intentions and is obviously a racial aggression towards Garcelle, which.............. we can't in anyway know that.

But Sutton obviously has the best of intentions, she's just clumsy, and awkward, and innocent, and it's not fair to feel offended at her comments because that would be bullying and because she's Southern.

It doesn't seem like a fair double standard.  All these things that people say about Sutton about being clumsy -- that's how I took Crystal saying the Rorschach "big words" comment.  She's so obviously not good on her feet.  I could see how it could be taken badly, but I don't think we know how she meant it.

Speaking just for me, I'm holding them to the same standard. 

I obviously don't know what Crystal was thinking, but to me it was a flippant comment that wasn't very nice. I didn't personally take it as racist or vicious. The word policing may have gotten the best of her so she got snarky. Like "I can't use the word violate. Can't say dark. Now I'm asked what Rorschach is, ugh can hardly talk in this group." 

We've heard most of the others say worse things, so even if I didn't love it, it's pretty innocent by Housewife standards. Garcelle is my favorite, so I really hate for anyone to speak down to her, but even though I didn't like the comment, I'm not going to read too much into it. If Crystal were to speak down to her in another episode, then I might change my mind about the big words comment. Unless it's something blatant, I look for a pattern before I think someone was being racist, because it's so gross to me. And I have wondered if a cast member was subconsciously racist toward Garcelle before. 

[Hiyo]

Quote

It is microaggression. The women, to her, just don’t “get” her issue with Sutton (because they can’t read minds?), so therefore they’re too stupid to understand where she’s coming from. It’s also condescension and pretension, and having to be the smartest person in the room. 

If all the women are too stupid, then it isn't a microaggression.

Quote

Kyle also needed to just shut up, as is often the case - it just gets bigger and bigger as they all pile on.  (She also doesn’t fully grasp the exact meaning of the term gaslighting, I don’t think)

Between gaslighting and Francophile and possibly Rorschach, maybe Kyle is the one they need to stop using "big words" around. 

[stcroix]

On 6/8/2022 at 10:10 PM, nichelle said:

While I don't believe I would have reacted the way that Crystal did, I don't see the difference. The issue is that I, as a person of color, want others to see color. See the whole me. I don't live in a world where color is not a factor in my life, therefore, I appreciate it when people see my complete self. 

I think Sutton means well. I really do. There is just opportunity for education, and it is much easier to get there when everyone speaks *and* listens.

I've learned something from this because I'm a southerner around Sutton's age and I also would have said ''I dont see color." Until watching this show.  I've had black friends, Mexican friends (my best friend in fact), a Greek friend, and I married a boy of Sicilian ancestry-- I never thought about it in terms of their lives or experiences-- I just thought of them as my friends.  I'm wondering now what else I may say that's offensive? This is a new world. 

(I still think Crystal is over the top and trying to cause drama to stay on the show with her last comment about the 'dark thing' Sutton said.  That's a whole lot of nothing!)

[film noire]

6 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

It doesn't seem like a fair double standard.  

I'm holding both women to the same standard: reacting to what they've said. 

If we ever see credible information/footage of Sutton actually saying something problematic, very dark, hurtful, and worthy-of-being-canceled comments,  I will absolutely roll out all the big words denouncing that. 

I will also dump this show, because I'm not interested in race being used for reality tv thrills. I'm not interested in a presentation of cast members that has been manipulated to such an extreme degree I'm suddenly being required to ask myself, "Wait - Sutton's a racist?"  And I'm certainly not interested in being expected to do so as glibly as a WWHL poll, as casually as Andy does shotskis. as easily as we once asked ourselves who was the real 'witch' (Carlton or Brandi) why Kyle loves herself a bad caftan, and whether Yolanda's "My King" was proof her marriage was in trouble.  If Andy Cohhn has decided carelessly playing-with-race-storylines is the new "Taylor yelling at a cat meme", he deserves a Maloof Hoof in his ass.

Edited June 12, 2022 by film noire

[Jel]

9 hours ago, jinjer said:

I believe she was responding to Garcelle who asked what Rorshach was, that she hadn't heard it.  It's offensive to direct it to an adult to tell them a word is a "big" word when they don't know what a word means. I think she was shading them all because she felt they overreacted to violated last year and told her it was a big word and now she is telling them that Rorshach is a big word. I think Crystal has a real snarky side. I would hope she wasn't making a racial comment against Garcelle.

I think you nailed it, Jinjer. This makes perfect sense.

[Slakkie]

10 hours ago, Surrealist said:

I was wondering about this too. Didn't Sutton mention, or allude to, a strained relationship with her mother, especially regarding her father's suicide? Not that any of this excuses Sutton's blunders, but I think it provides insight into why she's wound so tightly.

I also wonder if Garcelle's consistent defenses of her are because she knows more about what's going on with Sutton that Sutton hasn't revealed in front of the cameras or to the others. They seem to have a genuine friendship off camera.

I think it has to do with the off camera discussions that Crystal likes to make stuff up to stir shit.  I about came out of my chair when Rinna said she heard it.  I assume this is why Garcelle is really pushing on Crystal to own what she said.

And I think Garcelle's approach to discussing race is more educational than Crystal's where you literally cannot say a word without being "problematic". And for context I work in Diversity Equity and Inclusion and when we speak to groups we discuss that these discussions need to be safe to discuss and educate when needed on both sides.  I still do not see what is problematic about the pool party.  How are we going to have discussions if each and every word is twisted around?

[JonnieUniteUs]

On 6/8/2022 at 9:19 PM, njbchlover said:

I agree with the article, however, cooking filet mignon well done is actually pretty difficult, unless it is butterflied, due to the thickness of the cut.  Other steaks are easier to prepare more well done.

I just remember someone else ordering salmon well done last season, and now, the filet well done just kind of sets my teeth on edge!

(I don't know why it bothers me, as Rinna was the one who ordered it and probably didn't even eat it, anyway!!!)

I was told by someone in the restaurant business that the well done steak orders are given the “worst” cuts of meat.  🤔

[pasdetrois]

4 hours ago, film noire said:

If Andy Cohhn has decided carelessly playing-with-race-storylines is the new "Taylor yelling at a cat meme", he deserves a Maloof Hoof in his ass.

Definitely what he is doing. See RHoNY. I believe it's also surfaced on the Below Deck series. It's intentional. For ratings.

[SweetieDarling]

21 minutes ago, pasdetrois said:

Definitely what he is doing. See RHoNY. I believe it's also surfaced on the Below Deck series. It's intentional. For ratings.

He's trying to drive these shows into the toilet so they'll not be renewed? This attempt was disastrous to the RHNY ratings. I can't imagine why production would want to continue with it. 

[65mickey]

It may be intentional for ratings but if RHNY is is any indication with the low ratings viewers were turned off  last season. The reports that it will not be returning as we know it seems to have tanked that long running franchise.  

[JonnieUniteUs]

On 6/9/2022 at 2:24 AM, CallmeCray said:

but what I wasn’t picking up was that she thinks they’re beneath her.

and people that Crystal knows or knows of are the ones with worth.

She’s never heard of us.   I’m triggered.😩😩

Edited June 12, 2022 by JonnieUniteUs

[JonnieUniteUs]

On 6/9/2022 at 5:54 AM, Baltimore Betty said:

I think I will be referring to Crystal as "The Dark Crystal," for now on.

All we need now is Gina in her Skeksis jacket to complete the scene.

[ZettaK]

Something less "dark". A screenshot of a comment and the still from a Bravo video was shared on Reddit, where fans mentioned their amazement at what they said were the “uncanny” similarities of Erika Jayne with June “Mama June” Shannon, the well-known mother of Alana “Honey Boo Boo” Thompson of TLC fame.

https://heavy.com/entertainment/real-housewives/erika-jayne-mama-june-resemblance-reactions/

It seems that Camille Grammer Meyer also made a comment about not liking reunion looks last years. 

Edited June 12, 2022 by ZettaK

[Keywestclubkid]

23 minutes ago, ZettaK said:

Something less "dark". A screenshot of a comment and the still from a Bravo video was shared on Reddit, where fans mentioned their amazement at what they said were the “uncanny” similarities of Erika Jane with June “Mama June” Shannon, the well-known mother of Alana “Honey Boo Boo” Thompson of TLC fame.

https://heavy.com/entertainment/real-housewives/erika-jayne-mama-june-resemblance-reactions/

It seems that Camille Grammer Meyer also made a comment about not liking reunion looks last years. 

Poor mama June pulling herself out of crack addiction to be compared to Erika … lol 

[pasdetrois]

1 hour ago, SweetieDarling said:

He's trying to drive these shows into the toilet so they'll not be renewed? This attempt was disastrous to the RHNY ratings.

Agreed. However the racism angles were rolled out before those ratings. RHoBC may be an experiment with a milder tactic. Look at how many comments have been generated on this board.

[JonnieUniteUs]

On 6/10/2022 at 11:53 AM, Baltimore Betty said:

Crystal is coming off as a preachy bully and this will bite her in the ass.

To have discussions about racism etc can be valuable learning and enlightening experiences, but yeah I really hope it doesn’t take over and ruin the show like happened on RHONY.

Seems I remember Garcelle educating the ladies briefly one episode and moving on.

This dwelling on this claim by Crystal - by almost every housewife - makes me fear for the future of the franchise. ☹️

[Cozytea]

I will say as a person of color you see and hear things differently than white people.  That's just the truth. I remember as a kid asking "what are you?"  I said I'm Mexican he said well speak Mexican to me.( because obviously i was there to entertain) and I said we speak spanish, he said whats the difference? Lots of kids standing around and I  just want to be swallowed up by the ground. Some things you feel forever.

[Glama]

On 6/9/2022 at 4:55 PM, Shauna said:

Erika? What about Kyle.  She has a really crazy walk.  Have any of you noticed?  You can kind of see it when she answers the door when the newest housewife arrives (forget her name).  Kind of like her feet are turned outward.  It really is very odd.

I noticed it and thought she walked like Teddi, which is hilarious considering she was doing an impersonation of Teddi and how Teddi walks in an earlier season 😅 Maybe the walk stuck.

[Cheyanne11]

2 minutes ago, Glama said:

What about Kyle.  She has a really crazy walk.  Have any of you noticed?  You can kind of see it when she answers the door when the newest housewife arrives (forget her name).  Kind of like her feet are turned outward.  It really is very odd.

I did notice.  Looked like she just got off a horse.

[chlban]

21 hours ago, JonnieUniteUs said:

To have discussions about racism etc can be valuable learning and enlightening experiences, but yeah I really hope it doesn’t take over and ruin the show like happened on RHONY.

Seems I remember Garcelle educating the ladies briefly one episode and moving on.

This dwelling on this claim by Crystal - by almost every housewife - makes me fear for the future of the franchise. ☹️

I got to where I could not stand Eboni because it seemed to be her only reason to be on the show and she lectured instead of discussed. Garcelle has addressed race but, IMO, she has done it organically. Something in the conversation comes up and she may allude to it, and share information or her own experience. I would say the same with Chrystal, I have no problem with her sharing her experiences. Eboni turned people off with her manner and she had that vile, idiot Leah egging her on. Although I watched Eboni on the view once and didn't like her there either. Came a cross preachy and condescending. Also Garcelle has a sense of humor. My favorite line last season was when Kathy wasn't wearing her glasses and said to Garcelle "I thought you were Kyle". Without missing a beat Garcelle said "I get that ALL the time."

Edited June 13, 2022 by chlban

[RoseAllDay]

On 6/11/2022 at 9:56 PM, Keywestclubkid said:

She has some thoughts lol 

Camille’s not wrong. But Crystal’s thirst for a storyline should not include slandering a castmate who’s also a “friend.” 

[RoseAllDay]

On 6/12/2022 at 1:09 PM, JonnieUniteUs said:

To have discussions about racism etc can be valuable learning and enlightening experiences, but yeah I really hope it doesn’t take over and ruin the show like happened on RHONY.

Seems I remember Garcelle educating the ladies briefly one episode and moving on.

This dwelling on this claim by Crystal - by almost every housewife - makes me fear for the future of the franchise. ☹️

Agreed. Neither the show nor the women (Garcelle excepted) have the intellectual chops to handle this well, especially when it involves vague accusations that seemingly change daily. What Crystal is doing should have been shut down two episodes ago.

Crystal obviously wants to stand out, and she doesn’t care who she has to trample to do it. Tell me again why she was onboarded to the franchise? 

[ivygirl]

On 6/11/2022 at 10:12 PM, Hiyo said:

If all the women are too stupid, then it isn't a microaggression.

Between gaslighting and Francophile and possibly Rorschach, maybe Kyle is the one they need to stop using "big words" around. 

Well they sure all picked up on “Munchausen” a few seasons back! 🤣

[Hiyo]

I'm sure both Lisas used sock puppets to help Kyle fully understand the meaning.

Quote

Tell me again why she was onboarded to the franchise? 

Rich husband, Hollywood connections, etc.

[JonnieUniteUs]

26 minutes ago, RoseAllDay said:

Agreed. Neither the show nor the women (Garcelle excepted) have the intellectual chops to handle this well, especially when it involves vague accusations that seemingly change daily. What Crystal is doing should have been shut down two episodes ago.

Crystal obviously wants to stand out, and she doesn’t care who she has to trample to do it. Tell me again why she was onboarded to the franchise? 

I would think they would have shut this down after seeing how Eboni and Leah killed New York.🤔

even if they have some salacious video they are saving, it seems like a possible death knell for the show.  

4 hours ago, chlban said:

I got to where I could not stand Eboni because it seemed to be her only reason to be on the show and she lectured instead of discussed. Garcelle has addressed race but, IMO, she has done it organically. Something in the conversation comes up and she may allude to it, and share information or her own experience. I would say the same with Chrystal, I have no problem with her sharing her experiences. Eboni turned people off with her manner and she had that vile, idiot Leah egging her on. Although I watched Eboni on the view once and didn't like her there either. Came a cross preachy and condescending. Also Garcelle has a sense of humor. My favorite line last season was when Kathy wasn't wearing her glasses and said to Garcelle "I thought you were Kyle". Without missing a beat Garcelle said "I get that ALL the time."

This post 100%

[RealHousewife]

31 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

I'm sure both Lisas used sock puppets to help Kyle fully understand the meaning.

Rich husband, Hollywood connections, etc.

She’s beautiful and has beautiful children too. That always helps with TV and a Housewife show. 

[RoseAllDay]

9 minutes ago, JonnieUniteUs said:

I would think they would have shut this down after seeing how Eboni and Leah killed New York.🤔

even if they have some salacious video they are saving, it seems like a possible death knell for the show.  

This post 100%

I didn’t watch NY last season. I tried early but just couldn’t get into it. 

[JonnieUniteUs]

2 hours ago, RoseAllDay said:

I didn’t watch NY last season. I tried early but just couldn’t get into it. 

Smart woman!
You missed some tortuous “lectures.”   
Most of the fun got sucked out of the show.

[WhatAmIWatching]

On 6/12/2022 at 12:12 AM, Hiyo said:

If all the women are too stupid, then it isn't a microaggression.

Between gaslighting and Francophile and possibly Rorschach, maybe Kyle is the one they need to stop using "big words" around. 

She probably thought Rorschach was that kid from Welcome Back Kotter, and Munchausen was a house where one goes to eat!

 I just watched the whole episode (Mother Nature needs to schedule her storms better) and I had to rewind when Crystal said language was like Rorschach. Say what? Tree doesn't mean a tall thing with small green leaves to me, but a cream pie to someone else. That's a bad analogy from her, imo. (don't tell Teresa G. I used the word analogy or I'll never hear the end of it!) I thought she was just snarking at Garcelle for hurting her feelings, by questioning her earlier intentions toward Sutton, but I could be wrong?

   It surprised me that it appears Crystal and Sutton hadn't talked about the whole thing before the dinner. I'd sure want my friend to call me and tell me what they said, and what I said that they found so "dark" or "problematic" or "bad enough to get canceled". That way Sutton could fess up to the group (and cameras) and say what it was -if indeed it was more than the pool story- or give permission for Crystal to say it. Leaving it as "too damaging" to say out loud (and on tv) is quite unfair. I can believe whatever Sutton said hurt her feelings, like she said, but that's a lot milder than something that could "get someone canceled". 
 

  Sutton can be insensitive and does put her foot in her mouth a lot, and Crystal playing coy about it isn't nice either. Interestingly, she didn't deny it when Sutton called it a character assassination. 
 

Diana's miscarriage story was just awful. I feel so sad for her. I can't imagine how hard that was to go through.

RIP Lois! You were the best part of Rinner.

[JonnieUniteUs]

2 hours ago, WhatAmIWatching said:

She probably thought Rorschach was that kid from Welcome Back Kotter

😂

[goofygirl]

7 hours ago, RoseAllDay said:

I didn’t watch NY last season. I tried early but just couldn’t get into it. 

You didn't miss a THING.  It was a total shitshow.

[blixie]

Quote

 I appreciate it when people see my complete self. 

Yes I think too many white people try to go out of their way to prove they are not a racist, by saying this I don't see color stuff, when what they mean is I don't DISCRIMINATE based on race, I am not prejudiced against people based on their race. Now that too is not really true since unconscious bias is real and powerful thing. But it's more precise and less problematic than saying I choose not to see your racial/ethnic identity, and how it effects your life. Also what the fuck kind of low bar is it to say you aren't an unapologetic bigot?

My biggest issue with Crystal is she genuinely seemed to be over this, and it's fine if she's not but to keep saying Sutton said something so so so awful, but I am over it, clearly since I'm bringing it up to everyone a year later, is....confusing. It's a fools errand to pretend Sutton couldn't have said something much worse than what we saw, but I also think Crystal just got super defensive with Garcelle and wanted the put the heat score on a reliable target: awkward Sutton. Now that she's revealed what was said and didn't land she's going to pretend it was some OTHER thing she would never reveal. And again maybe it is, but for fucks sake lady make up your mind about how you REALLY feel about Sutton if it's bygones and your friends than act like a friend. If not than go off all you want. 

[RoseAllDay]

Bravo’s airing this ep again, and I just saw the scene with Kyle’s walk (must have been typing and missed it the first time).

And SHE makes fun of Teddi’s walk? Looked like a cowhand struttin’ around the ranch, going to the door to greet Diana.

[JD5166]

On 6/17/2022 at 2:47 PM, RoseAllDay said:

Bravo’s airing this ep again, and I just saw the scene with Kyle’s walk (must have been typing and missed it the first time).

And SHE makes fun of Teddi’s walk? Looked like a cowhand struttin’ around the ranch, going to the door to greet Diana.

I didn’t see it either it Bravo Snark Side has a video....I watched it100 Times! Lol it’s worth having the sh*tpile that is instagram. 

[ladle]

Crystal is playing this all wrong. Unless her goal is to get a villain edit and secure her spot on the show, in which case she’s playing this all right. 
 

So, Garcelle told Crystal that she thought that Crystal would have accused Sutton of being an “I don’t see color” girl regardless of how the conversation went that night. All Crystal had to say in response to Garcelle was, “No, I only do that when I get the sense that someone is an ‘I don’t see color’ girl. And I was right in this case, as evidenced by Sutton *LITERALLY SAYING ‘I DON’T SEE COLOR’*” Like, Crystal had a leg to stand on here! No clue why she went the “something dark” route unless she’s an idiot or a grade A shit stirrer or both. 

[RealHousewife]

45 minutes ago, ladle said:

Crystal is playing this all wrong. Unless her goal is to get a villain edit and secure her spot on the show, in which case she’s playing this all right. 
 

So, Garcelle told Crystal that she thought that Crystal would have accused Sutton of being an “I don’t see color” girl regardless of how the conversation went that night. All Crystal had to say in response to Garcelle was, “No, I only do that when I get the sense that someone is an ‘I don’t see color’ girl. And I was right in this case, as evidenced by Sutton *LITERALLY SAYING ‘I DON’T SEE COLOR’*” Like, Crystal had a leg to stand on here! No clue why she went the “something dark” route unless she’s an idiot or a grade A shit stirrer or both. 

I hear ya, but in Crystal's defense, I don't think she was anticipating this question. There are times the women clearly know what they're saying is throwing someone under the bus (like pushing Denise to talk about her sex life, outing a surrogacy or addiction). What you posted would have been perfect, but I think Crystal may have been taken aback, and the racial conversation is a real, sensitive issue that is personal for her. I can see her forgetting cameras are rolling and being like look, you all missed stuff Sutton said, I'm not someone quick to give people grief. 

Who knows though. I love Garcelle and don't think she meant to stir shit up. I think it was an honest thought she finally expressed. Crystal wasn't expecting it. And I don't believe Sutton would say anything "dark," but I can see her saying something unintentionally offensive. I don't want her labeled anything crazy either, as I think she's one of the few good humans on the show.

Team focus on Erika and other mean girls!

Edited June 21, 2022 by RealHousewife

[ladle]

16 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I hear ya, but in Crystal's defense, I don't think she was anticipating this question. There are times the women clearly know what they're saying is throwing someone under the bus (like pushing Denise to talk about her sex life, outing a surrogacy or addiction). What you posted would have been perfect, but I think Crystal may have been taken aback, and the racial conversation is a real, sensitive issue that is personal for her. I can see her forgetting cameras are rolling and being like look, you all missed stuff Sutton said, I'm not someone quick to give people grief. 

Who knows though. I love Garcelle and don't think she meant to stir shit up. I think it was an honest thought she finally expressed. Crystal wasn't expecting it. And I don't believe Sutton would say anything "dark," but I can see her saying unintentionally offensive. I don't want her labeled anything crazy either, as I think she's one of the few good humans on the show.

Team focus on Erika and other mean girls!

Oh I can totally see how Crystal was blindsided by Garcelle bringing this up a year later. But then Crystal chose to prolong the “she said something so dark I can’t repeat it” narrative on at least three separate occasions after that, and that’s all on Crystal. (Also, why could she “not repeat” something that we all saw when the episode aired anyway?!).  But my god yes, agreed that the focus should be on the mean(er) girls!! 

[Kdawg82]

Oyyy Crystallllll....stop!!! Just STOPPPPPP! 

She's got an inferiority complex worse than anyone on this show. She needs to work on herself. Counseling for maybe not being "taken seriously" or "validated" in her life? I don't know. Something wrong with her and it's extremely immature. You can't convince people you're a big girl and act that way. 

Erika is still disgusting,  low class, trashy. A grade A pig. Get her off this show.