Dark Winds - General Discussion

[AnimeMania]

Dark Winds is a 6 episode noir thriller airing on AMC/AMC+ on June 12, 2022. One new episode will debut every Sunday on AMC, and AMC+ subscribers will get to see the episodes one week in advance. The TV Series is based on the Leaphorn & Chee book series by Tony Hillerman, with Season One is based on the novel "Listening Woman". The story follows Leephorn and Chee, two Navajo police officers in a remote outpost of the Navajo Nation near Monument Valley. Set in 1971, they are forced to challenge their own spiritual beliefs when they search for clues in a bank robbery and double homicide case.

This is not the first time these two characters have appeared on screens. In the 1991 film The Dark Wind, Leephorn was played by Fred Ward and Chee by Lou Diamond Phillips. In the 2002 three-part PBS Mystery! series, Skinwalkers, Leephorn was played by Wes Studi and Chee by Adam Beach.

Dark Wind's executive producers include George R.R. Martin and Robert Redford.

The show was created and executive produced by Graham Roland, a Native American writer who had a staff of Native American writers to give authenticity to the work. The cast featured Native American actors and was filmed largely in and around Native American lands in New Mexico.

Zahn McClarnon plays Lieutenant Joe Leaphorn of the Tribal Police as he is besieged by a series of seemingly unrelated crimes. The closer he digs to the truth, the more he exposes the wounds of his past. 

Kiowa Gordon plays Jim Chee, a new deputy who has old scores to settle from his youth on the reservation.  

Jessica Matten plays Bernadette Manuelito, a Navajo police sergeant who is sharp as a tack and works closely with Leaphorn.

Noah Emmerich plays Whitover, a burned-out FBI agent whose once-promising career is dying on the vine. A brazen robbery puts him back in the big time, but first he must enlist the help of the Navajo Tribal Police led by Lieutenant Joe Leaphorn.

Deanna Allison plays Emma Leaphorn's wife  a strong woman with good intuition who works as a midwife. She is Leaphorn’s (McClarnon) wife and deeply connected to her work and to the women she serves. When she suspects that one of her patients is a victim of domestic violence, she immediately asks her husband to investigate.

Rainn Wilson plays Devoted Dan, a degenerate missionary who relies on his faith to recruit followers to the gates of his used-car lot. He is also a practitioner of every biblical sin he decries.

Eugene Brave Rock plays Frank Naka

Elva Guerra plays Sally Growing Thunder

[JudyObscure]

At my book club yesterday, one of the women started talking about how much she loves Tony Hillerman's books and something she said made me realize this was taken from his novels.  I already liked the previews and now I'm really excited for this.

[ratSenoL]

Excited for this. The casting looks great. Maybe third time will be a charm for bringing Hillerman's great characters and stories to life.

[ratSenoL]

Saw a good "long read" story about how this show came about: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/amc-series-dark-winds-tony-hillerman-1235156491/. It has some serious backers! 

[AnimeMania]

‘Dark Winds’ Review

IndieWire     Watch show before reading

[Vermicious Knid]

I was looking forward to this but they're throwing it all into a blender here. It's been years since I read them but Leaphorn doesn't meet Chee until much later than 1971 and Bernadette doesn't even come into things until like 12 books in. And she's awkwardly shoe-horned in because Hillerman was abysmal at writing any romance. I don't mind if they make her less annoying. I always liked that he had the characters age in real time. If five years passed between books being published the characters were five years older. We get to know Leaphorn over the course of 35 years.

[AnimeMania]

S01.E01: Monster Slayer
On a remote outpost of the Navajo Nation in 1971, Lt. Joe Leaphorn of the Tribal Police and new Deputy Jim Chee are besieged by a series of seemingly unrelated crimes; together, the two men face the trauma of their pasts as they search for clues

Original Airdate: June 12, 2022 on AMC and AMC+

 

S01.E02: The Male Rain Approaches

Original Airdate: June 12, 2022 on AMC+
Original Airdate: June 19, 2022 on AMC

Spoiler

Leaphorn and Chee interview the witness to the motel murders; Manuelito investigates a new crime.

[pasdetrois]

I last saw the Chee stories when PBS produced a series. It starred the great Wes Studi and an underrated native actress named Sheila Tousey. Sheila appeared in many of Sam Shepard's theater productions.

I hope the producers don't mess with Navajo traditions too much, just grabbing any old cultural practice and throwing it into the mix. Perhaps these native actors won't stand for that.

Looking forward to it.

Edited June 12, 2022 by pasdetrois

[WaltersHair]

It's pronounced Canyon De Shay not Chelly as it's spelled. Amazing place to visit.

Worked all around this area for about 15 years before I called it quits. Spotty to no cell phone coverage as late as 2016.

So far they've done a pretty decent job, but no one native I met ever liked Tony Hillerman. They thought he gave away too many secrets. Navajo are generally secretive especially about all things supernatural and you never speak to a white person about them.

[shapeshifter]

14 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

It's pronounced Canyon De Shay not Chelly as it's spelled.

Joe Leaphorn of the Tribal Police pronounced Canyon De Chelly to rhyme with Way, not Jelly.
FBI Agent "High Pockets" pronounced it incorrectly, so I think that was on purpose.

ETA: I think this only caught my attention because the correct pronunciation of De Chelly was a Jeopardy! clue for a rhyming category recently, and I always watch with captions on, so on both shows I saw the spelling.
 

Edited June 13, 2022 by shapeshifter

[mjc570]

I liked it, once I got over comparing it to the books.  I thought the casting was great, although the exterior shots looked a bit cheesy.  Looking forward to the next episode.

[Rickster]

Know the books only by reputation. We thought this was…..OK. I wouldn’t call it cheesy, exactly, but the look of the show was somehow lower budget than  I expected. I’d also call the plot choppy, but that might be because we watched it live, not our normal DVR, and there were a lot of commercials. Will be reverting to DVR next week, so we’ll see how it goes.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Rickster

[Ms Lark]

I've watched the first two episodes on AMC+ (cheap deal earlier in the year). So far, I'm enjoying it. I read almost all of the Hillerman novels waaay back when they came out, but it's been so long I don't remember much of any of them other than the characters. So it's all new again! I grew up in the area and was concerned it was being produced by two very white guys, but the number of indigenous actors, writers, and crew members is making it very interesting. Looking forward to episode 3 for sure! Sadly there are only 6 episodes in all.

[sagittarius sue]

19 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

ETA: I think this only caught my attention because the correct pronunciation of De Chelly was a Jeopardy! clue for a rhyming category recently, and I always watch with captions on, so on both shows I saw the spelling.

I was trying to remember where I caught the correct pronunciation.  Thanks.  I noticed Leaphorn pronounced it correctly, and had a feeling that one of the FBI guys would pronounce it incorrectly.

I found a great article about the show with info that it is a Native American production at a Native American studio with the back story on Redford's and G.R.R. Martin's involvement.   https://entertainmentfunonline.co.in/dark-winds-2022-tv-show-review-trailer-online/

I too loved the PBS series with Wes Studi and Adam Beach.  It was three episodes, 140 mnutes each so it was the equivalent of 6 episodes.  I had wished there were more episodes back then.

[Ms Lark]

50 minutes ago, sagittarius sue said:

I too loved the PBS series with Wes Studi and Adam Beach.  It was three episodes, 140 mnutes each so it was the equivalent of 6 episodes.  I had wished there were more episodes back then.

I watched these back in the day and am rewatching just for the hell of it. I love Wes Studi, but have always found Adam Beach rather bland. He does well enough here, though. All three PBS eps are available free on YouTube: Skinwalkers, Thief of Time, and Coyote Waits.

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

loved last night's episode,looking forward to to rest of the season!

[magdalene]

I like it, am not familiar with the books but the lead actor is always good - he was fantastic in Westworld.  So there is a supernatural element to these stories? That witch? gave me the heebie-jeebies.  I would have left in a hurry too.

I couldn't live there, everything is so dry and parched and the land wants to kill you. And I thought SoCal was dry and making you day dream compulsively of lush green spaces with daily rain.

[LittleIggy]

Zahn McClarnon always rocks it. Was that murdered girl Leaphorn’s bio daughter? 

[LittleIggy]

58 minutes ago, magdalene said:

I couldn't live there, everything is so dry and parched and the land wants to kill you. And I thought SoCal was dry and making you day dream compulsively of lush green spaces with daily rain.

I had to laugh when that guy who apparently hates Leaphorn fell into the only patch of mud for miles around!

[cardigirl]

21 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

Zahn McClarnon always rocks it. Was that murdered girl Leaphorn’s bio daughter? 

I believe she was Leaphorn's deceased son's girlfriend. 

[WildPlum]

The names are out of the books, the basic plot looks like it'll be out of the books, but the characters are different. The scenery is fine, the special effects are pretty so-so, but it'll be characters and plot I care about in the end. After the first episode I am willing to hang around for more.

[cardigirl]

I really enjoyed this. I've not read the books at all, so I have fewer expectations than book readers.  I'm willing to continue and look forward to the next episode.  I don't have AMC+ so will be watching each week. 

So I'm guessing that the old man who died in the beginning was being poisoned by his water due to the helicopter and dead body being in his water source?  That's why there was a dead animal there too?  

My tolerance for decaying animal footage is pretty low, so I hope it's not a thing with this show. 🤢

[sugarbaker design]

8 hours ago, WildPlum said:

The names are out of the books, the basic plot looks like it'll be out of the books, but the characters are different.

So different.  Jim Chee would never speed past people stuck on the road.  It looks like this 6-episode season will be based on the novel Listening Woman, which is a good novel, although Jim and Bernie aren't in it.

[bad things are bad]

Stan's in the FBI again,  but he's sure a different character.  

Liked the first episode a great deal, we'll be watching 

[WildPlum]

2 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I really enjoyed this. I've not read the books at all, so I have fewer expectations than book readers.  I'm willing to continue and look forward to the next episode.  I don't have AMC+ so will be watching each week. 

So I'm guessing that the old man who died in the beginning was being poisoned by his water due to the helicopter and dead body being in his water source?  That's why there was a dead animal there too?  

My tolerance for decaying animal footage is pretty low, so I hope it's not a thing with this show. 🤢

There is a dead coyote? dog? in two different scenes - that and the claw marks on the hotel bathroom door mean, I think, we are dealing with either witches or skinwalkers, who are somehow involved with the theft of the money and the helicopter. It's been long rnough since I have read the books that I don't remember the plot.

Also I sort of like the more "traditional" Leaphorn (I still have the Edward Olmos version in suits in my head). I suspect Chee will become something more like the Chee of the books as he - as he must - sheds the FBI and settles back in to Navajo life.

[shapeshifter]

Two general questions (no spoilers, please!!) for those of you familiar with the books:

1. Does this get graphically darker than what was shown in the first episode? 
   I mean, are the disturbing images just a taste of future visual horror on a much great scale of awful?
    
2. Is there zero lightness? No comic relief à la Breaking Bad?

[WildPlum]

The novels, IIRC, are pretty serious and straightforward. The thing is, this version is going its own way with the characters/characterizations and may well with many of the plot points as well.

Never watched Breaking Bad (the subject didn't interest me), so I don't know what the humorous bits were, but, in general the Hillerman novels don;t have a lot of "comedy" in them. Lighter character moments here and there, but they are pretty serious. The novels don't tend to be gory - yes, there are murders, but they don't tend to be described in gory detail.

[ichbin]

On 6/13/2022 at 12:26 PM, Ms Lark said:

So far, I'm enjoying it. I read almost all of the Hillerman novels waaay back when they came out, but it's been so long I don't remember much of any of them other than the characters. So it's all new again!

Same here!  So no problem for me reconciling what is going on compared to the novels.  I enjoyed the first two episodes and will definitely be watching more.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 6/13/2022 at 12:26 PM, Ms Lark said:

Sadly there are only 6 episodes in all.

For Season 1, that is.

On 6/14/2022 at 11:31 AM, WildPlum said:

Also I sort of like the more "traditional" Leaphorn (I still have the Edward Olmos version in suits in my head). I suspect Chee will become something more like the Chee of the books as he - as he must - sheds the FBI and settles back in to Navajo life.

I don't quite know what you mean. EJO has never played Joe Leaphorn.

[WildPlum]

13 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

For Season 1, that is.

I don't quite know what you mean. EJO has never played Joe Leaphorn.

Right you are, my memory (from 20 years ago when I saw the other series) morphed Wes Studi into Olmos.

[AnimeMania]

S01.E03: K'e
June 19, 2022 on AMC+
June 26, 2022 on AMC

Spoiler

Leaphorn's niece celebrates her Kinaaldá as Leaphorn retrieves the bodies of the murder victims; Manuelito and Chee investigate the whereabouts of the missing Mormon family.

Edited June 19, 2022 by AnimeMania

[pasdetrois]

I'm loving the fact that this series got made with a native production company and features native actors.

Not too crazy about the special effects, which are so obvious.

The actress who plays the witch woman is effectively creepy.

I like the traditional touches - the cops standing in a Dine front yard and waiting to see if anyone acknowledges their presence, rather than barging up to the door and banging on it. The bringing smokes to visit an elder.

I miss the Four Corners so much. It is extraordinarily beautiful. Was last there a few months before the pandemic, which hit the reservation very hard.

In advance of watching this series, I reminisced about staying at the El Rancho Hotel with my colleagues in the 90s, and visiting a chapter house and trading post. And there they were in the first episode!

When I first began working with Indians in NM, everyone said "read Hillerman." Then later the Indians said "nah, don't read Hillerman."

Edited June 19, 2022 by pasdetrois

[WaltersHair]

Second episode is good, and I'm still in.

Two pet peeves. The hair follicle thing is pure bunk/urban legend.

This is the second series I've watched that mentions native women being sterilized after giving birth. This is something that could never happen in modern times. I never even heard of this and I worked medical for 6 different tribes. It bugs me because I think it's completely made up as a story to scare people.

[Nialla]

17 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

Two pet peeves. The hair follicle thing is pure bunk/urban legend.

This is the second series I've watched that mentions native women being sterilized after giving birth. This is something that could never happen in modern times. I never even heard of this and I worked medical for 6 different tribes. It bugs me because I think it's completely made up as a story to scare people.

It's believed that stress and other health factors can cause changes that cause premature gray hair, but the idea that someone can be "scared" so much that their hair immediately turns white from root to tip is bunk.

Native women were absolutely sterilized, without their consent and/or understanding, primarily in the 1960s and 70s.

[WaltersHair]

26 minutes ago, Nialla said:

It's believed that stress and other health factors can cause changes that cause premature gray hair, but the idea that someone can be "scared" so much that their hair immediately turns white from root to tip is bunk.

Native women were absolutely sterilized, without their consent and/or understanding, primarily in the 1960s and 70s.

Do you have links to a study or peer reviewed medical journals? I'd be interested to know actual numbers.

[Nialla]

2 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

Do you have links to a study or peer reviewed medical journals? I'd be interested to know actual numbers.

This is from the NIH. Not full numbers, but gives a sense of scale.

"A study by the U.S. General Accounting Office finds that 4 of the 12 Indian Health Service regions sterilized 3,406 American Indian women without their permission between 1973 and 1976."

That's an average of ~850 per year.

[magdalene]

I guess I shouldn't hope that the Mormon family is still alive.....

So I am assuming the witch scared the young woman they found dead to death.  And I totally believe it, that actress is great at projecting malice. Heck, every time her face comes on screen I jump and just want to get away. I totally thought the horses would die.

[cardigirl]

7 hours ago, magdalene said:

I guess I shouldn't hope that the Mormon family is still alive.....

Yeah, I guess not, as left alive they could point to the painting, etc. 

I kept hoping Manuelito and Leaphorn would open the trunk when they found the car by the side of the road. Or maybe I was afraid of them opening it.  😳

[sugarbaker design]

15 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

I kept hoping Manuelito and Leaphorn would open the trunk when they found the car by the side of the road.

That was driving me crazy?  Was there a reason Manuelito didn't go near the car until Leaphorn showed up?

[hatchetgirl]

1 hour ago, sugarbaker design said:

That was driving me crazy?  Was there a reason Manuelito didn't go near the car until Leaphorn showed up?

I'm thinking it was just basic creepiness, let's wait for backup kind of a thing.  Safety.

The thing that bothered me though was that Mormon family was drinking RC Cola.  Doesn't that have caffeine in it and don't Mormons not drink anything with caffeine?  Yes, I'm that dork that asks these questions.

I'm loving the show.  That witch lady is TERRIFYING.  I'm hoping the pregnant girl isn't staying with them so get their hair.  :(  

[sugarbaker design]

23 minutes ago, hatchetgirl said:

I'm thinking it was just basic creepiness, let's wait for backup kind of a thing.  Safety.

The thing that bothered me though was that Mormon family was drinking RC Cola.  Doesn't that have caffeine in it and don't Mormons not drink anything with caffeine?  Yes, I'm that dork that asks these questions.

I'm sure the writers know that, they were just having fun with a bunch of caffeinated Mormons.  Even the Mom was downing the RC.  

[Raja]

41 minutes ago, hatchetgirl said:

I'm thinking it was just basic creepiness, let's wait for backup kind of a thing.  Safety.

The thing that bothered me though was that Mormon family was drinking RC Cola.  Doesn't that have caffeine in it and don't Mormons not drink anything with caffeine?  Yes, I'm that dork that asks these questions.

I'm loving the show.  That witch lady is TERRIFYING.  I'm hoping the pregnant girl isn't staying with them so get their hair.  :(  

It is a religion that claims they are still getting supernatural revelations.  for about 10 years cola's are specifically on the okay list if not recommended now.  While not specifically banned like coffee and teas I guess some saw it that way in 1971.

[Mahamid Frauded Me]

I saw the previews for this series for a while and decided to give it a try, boy, I am glad I did. This show so far is quite good 

[tennisgurl]

I am not familiar with the books this is based off of so I cant speak to how much it is or isn't like the books, but I am really liking this show so far. Interesting mix of a more typical murder/robbery mystery and supernatural elements, and I was glad to see that they have a number of native people working on the show both in front of the camera and behind, which made me want to check this out. I love the actor playing the main character, he's great in everything I've seen him in. The woman playing the witch is super creepy, no wonder she probably scared that girl to death. If I was that deputy I would run away from her too.

Some of the effects are more average than good, but the way they are shooting the desert is great. Its beautiful but also vast and empty. 

Noah Emmerich has really found a niche as a government agent, I guess he just has that kind of face, one that goes with a badge. 

[LittleIggy]

Wonder why Anna’s dad didn’t warn Joe, Jr. 🤔 

Who on earth would buy such an ugly painting (not knowing there was cash stuffed in the back)?

[hatchetgirl]

7 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

Wonder why Anna’s dad didn’t warn Joe, Jr.

Me too. I'm wondering if they knew Joe Sr is just a rule follower and would have known? That's the part I'm a little confused by.

[AnimeMania]

‘Dark Winds’ Renewed for Season 2 at AMC

The Season 1 Series Premiere drew 2.2 million viewers on AMC in the Nielsen Live+3 ratings. 

70% of “Dark Winds” was filmed on tribal lands at Tesuque Pueblo in New Mexico, using their Camel Rock Studios facility. Another 30% of the series was filmed on tribal lands at Cochiti Pueblo in New Mexico.

Season 2 will be 6 episodes.

[nodorothyparker]

I'm only one episode in so far, but I'm really liking this. I'm just so over run of the mill procedurals that I won't even give them a look unless they've got some hook that hasn't just been done to death. The Native setting and cast along with the possible supernatural element scratches that itch for me. It probably helps that Joe Leaphorn is so far reading as a fundamentally decent guy rather than some rogue or corrupt cop. Also helps that Zahn McClarnon has been great in everything I've ever seen him in and he's easy enough on the eyes.

I'm unfamiliar with the books this is based on. As the third AMC show I've seen set in the Southwest, I can appreciate the cinematography that makes the vast openness and isolation of it almost a character of its own without ever wanting to go there. 

[AnnA]

I'm so glad I decided to give Dark Winds a try.  I'm loving it.  I did have to watch each episode more than once to figure out what was happening.  I haven't read the books but I'm sure I will. 

I didn't understand why Anna's dad was so angry with Leaphorn.  He was angry before he knew his daughter had been killed so that wasn't the reason.  I hope someone here can explain it.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, AnnA said:

I'm so glad I decided to give Dark Winds a try.  I'm loving it.  I did have to watch each episode more than once to figure out what was happening.  I haven't read the books but I'm sure I will. 

I didn't understand why Anna's dad was so angry with Leaphorn.  He was angry before he knew his daughter had been killed so that wasn't the reason.  I hope someone here can explain it.

In the second episode there is a flashback scene with him a a young Officer Leaphorn