S04.E07: Chapter Seven: The Massacre at Hawkins Lab

[paulvdb]

Quote

As Hopper braces to battle a monster, Dustin dissects Vecna's motives and decodes a message from beyond. El finds strength in a distant memory.

[Ms Lark]

OMG! Holy shit!!!

[Harvey]

So based on what we have seen here, the creatures of the upside down hail from 001, and they go after 11  because she betrayed 001.

That also explains why all of the previous creatures (demodog, demogorgon etc.) seem to have similar abilities to each other and 11, its because 001, the being that created them, is exactly the same thing 11 is... theoretically... 11 could create something like this too.

[absnow54]

I forgot they split this season into 2 parts, because the minutes were ticking down, and the groups hadn’t been reunited yet. I think I would have preferred shorter episodes in favor for a tighter story, because this season has really meandered, and while I binged it, it mostly ended up being background noise. 

[bettername2come]

I love the scenes in the Upside down. That was a great opening. I loved Eddie's shock that Nancy Wheeler has guns in her room. I'm totally fine with Steve and Nancy getting back together, but it seems like there's not a lot of thought going into whether she's with Jonathan or Steve. Granted Jonathan was a huge jerk last season, but still. I like that Eddie and Steve admitted to mutual jealousy over Dustin. And that Eddie talked about how Steve was a good guy. "There's a six-year-old in the house, I know where I keep my guns!" I can't say I thought of the Upside Down being stuck on November 6, 1983. I loved the shot of both halves of Team Hawkins looking up at each other through the Gate. I like that going through the gate was fun for Eddie and Robin. Oh, God, I didn't call Vecna attacking Nancy! I mean, I thought others could be in danger because they're all traumatized but I really was confused when she fell into a different space. Oh, I just realized that we've got Nancy versus a Freddie Kruger-esque character. Okay, good movie reference there.

I love that Erica paid off Holly for the use of the Lite Brite with an ice cream bar (or candy?). "How many times do I need to be right on the money before you guys just trust me?!" "This kid needs to get his ego checked." Ok, they're both right. 

The cops have been delightful this season. Powell is doing a decent job as Captain considering he has no idea what the hell's going on.

Enzo and Hopper are so cute being friendly. Murray was having way too much fun playing Yuri. Oh, the demogorgon enclosing it's entire mouth around the prisoner's head was horrifying. Karate Murray is fun. I want his action figure. 

Ok, I knew the orderly was 1/Vecna, but I didn't call him also being the Creel boy. 

[Fuzzy Logic]

Steve’s cough-cough moment of impending doom had better be happily resolved in the final two episodes of this season.

[steelyis]

4 hours ago, Fuzzy Logic said:

Steve’s cough-cough moment of impending doom had better be happily resolved in the final two episodes of this season.

This!

I will not tolerate anything bad... Well, anything permanently bad happening to Steve. Because Steve is the best!

[BlackberryJam]

Longest villain backstory reveal ever. That is not a compliment. 

For a mid-season cliffhanger, meh. It empowered me to fold a lot of laundry and attack the unmatched sock basket.

[smallfry]

First time poster here. I really liked that some things got explained to us in this episode and how it all came together. I  didn't miss the group that went to find Suzie. The whole Hopper story line was boring to me and I didn't see much purpose in it but I will say Murray was entertaining. Steve and Dustin are awesome and I hope nothing bad happens to them!

All in all I enjoyed these episodes and can't wait for July 1st.

[krankydoodle]

Lol at Officer Callahan saying they shouldn't have started out their questioning with Max because she was kind of mean, and Eddie trying and then giving up on explaining the stains on his mattress.

I like how with Murray in Russia, it fell to Robin and Eddie to try to play matchmaker for Steve and Nancy.

The bullying and torture scenes this season were hard to watch, so I'm glad they didn't make the rabbit that 001 tortured very realistic looking. On the other hand, I thought the de-aged El worked really well. It helps that they used that effect sparingly.

I don't like that they brought Brenner back or that Owens didn't have much interaction with El after bringing her to the bunker. I thought he could've at least apologized for springing that surprise on her and explaining how Brenner survived and why they needed him.

I've really enjoyed this season and can't wait until July for the last 2 episodes.

[Thalia]

I was thinking that the lab might provide a gate straight to Hawkins for El, but then remembered that the Pizza Posse (and maybe Suzie and Eden) are heading to her "rescue."   Which also reminded me that I missed Mike, Will, and Jonathan in this episode.   While it is trippy fun to see the gang working together back in Hawkins, I am really want everyone back together, stat.   But unless there are transporter like gateways in convenient locations like Nevada and Siberia, how long will it take everyone to get back to Indiana.  Or at least, to Illinois, which is in convenient walking distance to the Hoosier State.  

No one loves Steve Harrington more than I do, but I'm not sure that he and Nancy belong together.  Apart from great hair and a protective instinct toward the younglings, I'm not sure they have a lot in common.  

Edited May 28, 2022 by Thalia

[Fuzzy Logic]

I’ve been expecting Steve/Nancy ever since Robin was officially out of the romance running.  With only two seasons left, I figured that the Duffer Bros. would realize they likely couldn’t introduce another new romantic interest who would be as well-liked as Robin…but they wouldn’t want to give up on a Steve romance entirely (because hello???? Keery gives good romance).  So enter Nancy (again).  I’m good with it.  Nancy and Steve were a couple with chemistry waaaay back in the pilot, and that was before both became bad-asses.

[Dev F]

Interesting and fun first run of episodes. While season 4 echoes season 3 in having too much thoughtless '80s shtick -- the faceless Russian villains, the implausible crowds of over-the-top-awful bullies -- when the writers give it a little effort, they're still among the best in the biz at investing simple ideas and shopworn characters with nuance and a sense of fun. Even Chrissy, the popular cheerleader and inevitable First Girl of horror convention, is allowed to have a real, endearing personality. And even a visit to Suzie's big Mormon family avoids the easy gags about strict religious households to offer a joyous rundown of her siblings' creative idiosyncrasies.

But what struck me most is that season 4 is, for good or ill, the season best suited to binge watching since super-binge-friendly season 1. Whereas season 2 was too intricate to appreciate in one lightning-fast burst, and season 3 was too wide-ranging, season 4's super-sized runtime and budget mean that it spends more time than necessary on every essential story/character point, and between those narrative anchors are a lot of flashy setpieces that burn through money and time without demanding much of us. (For instance, I was especially amused by the new secondary villain "Important Military Guy with a Helicopter," whose main role in the season seemed to be to give the producers an excuse to include not one, not two, but three scenes of his chopper dramatically taking off or landing.) The result is that you can rocket through the episodes in a pleasant blur without feeling like you're missing anything about what the season is saying or how it all fits together.

And the way it's fitting together, though not terribly complex so far, is pretty interesting. By my reading, the themes of seasons 1 through 3 are, respectively "Find the ones you love," "Hold them close," and "Let them go," so I was pretty much expecting the theme of season 4 to be something along the lines of "If they come back to you . . ." And sure, enough, that's what this season seems to be about -- but what surprises me are the ways in which coming back does not seem to be a foregone conclusion. The show is at least seriously considering the possibility that some of what's fallen apart may not be destined to be put back together, to the point that for the first time I'm even wondering if the seemingly inevitable Mike/El ship is necessarily endgame for those characters (eyes those dramatic Mike/Will scenes curiously). Obviously, there's still two episodes to go, so it's possible everything will be tied up neatly in the end, but at least there's some intriguing inquiry along the way.

[Spartan Girl]

They can’t just leave us there!!!! 

I KNEW El didn’t do it! So Brenner is kind of complicit here because he basically modeled his mutant kids after a superpowered sociopath. All the more reason not to trust him.

The Joyce/Hopper reunion was worth waiting for. But oh man they’re going to be in for a shock when they get back to the states and find everything in chaos. Let’s hope Mike and Will’s group get to the lab ASAP.

I swear One’s Vecna form sounds just like Freddy Krueger. Did Englund voice him too?

Edited May 29, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[Blue Plastic]

Okay, okay, I've been complaining about this season in other threads, so I'll give them credit for coming up with a good reason for creatures from the Upside Down always being after El.

Did El create the Upside Down or did it already exist and El just pushed One into it?  Why are/were there so many telekinetic kids around for Brenner to get his hands on?

I was glad Enzo got out and survived.  I like him and Hopper together.

[Lady Calypso]

Well, that was quite a reveal. In hindsight, they did set it up very well, and I think I called out some bits and pieces (El not massacring the entire lab, the orderly being One, El accidentally freeing the one responsible), but I didn't piece it all together, and certainly not Victor's son being One being Vecna, until the very end, when they started explaining it. But you know? It does work and I think there's always been the questions on why the Upside Down and El have that connection. Learning more about the Upside Down and some of these creatures works.

Now, there either is some retcon OR some unexplained things going on as to why the Upside Down is frozen on the day Will was abducted when they were still able to hear things happening in the present day, but maybe Will will get more directly involved that way? 

Speaking of Will, him and his group were kind of missed for me. I was hoping the group would all mostly be reunited before the break, but I guess they'll get there eventually.

Now, I see they're going with Nancy/Steve, which I don't love, but at least have Nancy/Jonathan break up first. I don't want any cheating involved with the two of them.

I'm glad the Russia plot is finally winding down. Plus, it was fun to see Murray and Joyce save Hopper and Enzo. Hooray for Enzo living, too. The show made me care for more of the new characters than in seasons past. 

Overall, I wouldn't say it's my favourite season so far. I think that, because of the supersized run time, they did drag some things out that probably didn't need to be (the jocks, for example). I also think some characters were unnecessarily sidelined (Will has had very little to do, Lucas took a while to get involved). I think it took a little too long to bring a bunch of them together, and we're still having groups separated. I also think some of the comedic moments weren't very good (sorry, but the boobies conversation between Steve and Robin in episode 1 was badly written). But I do think the actors really stepped it up, and the strong moments were really strong. They've mixed up some of the pairings, and a lot of the new characters were very done (except for the jocks). And they really tied things together with El and the Upside Down that works. 

So, overall, not a bad Volume 1, but I'm hoping Volume 2 is a bit better, especially since it's somewhat shorter (in run time) and really has to bring everyone together.

[Demian]

I know it's a TV show and everything, but there is no way in hell Nancy has the upper-body strength to climb that bedsheet.

[Redrum]

I have so many questions.

Am I the only one who thought One, in retrospect, was pretty youthful looking for someone who had to be mid thirties at least? And more like mid forties?

I don't care in the slightest what is happening or happened in Russia. And I like Hopper but really, this entire plot just feels like filler. 

I knew El hadn't killed all of the younglings but was the Upside Down always there and El just happened to throw One into it? Or did she somehow create it? 

The Upside Down does seem to encompass One's love of spidery things.

I'm terribly shallow. My god, the kid playing Mike is one unattractive kid. 

The kid playing Max impressed me over all.

The allusions to Nightmare on Elm Street were fun but a little too spot on.

Did we ever get back to the Army guys who were torturing the special agent?

How did Eight miss out on this?

[SeanC]

When the backstory of the Creel family was given earlier in the season I thought in passing that it was weird that the son only went into a coma and then died, which was completely unlike every other victim, but I didn't follow that train of thought any further, so I was completely surprised at the reveal here.

I was trying to figure out over the course of this episode whether the whole Volume 1/Volume 2 spit had been conceived at the time the show as written or if that just came later as Netflix decided to pivot its release strategy a bit. Three of the four storylines in this season do arrive at a suitable midseason finale-type moment, but the fourth is absent entirely, presumably since Mike and the guys don't have anything more to do until Eleven has to leave the facility.

[Quilt Fairy]

10 minutes ago, Redrum said:

I'm terribly shallow. My god, the kid playing Mike is one unattractive kid. 

Well, it's not just you.  I shudder every time his face pops up on the screen. 

[nomodrama]

1 hour ago, Demian said:

I know it's a TV show and everything, but there is no way in hell Nancy has the upper-body strength to climb that bedsheet.

My thoughts watching that were that I would have had to start stacking furniture because I never would have been able to climb a bed sheet. I couldn't climb a rope in gym class to save my life when I was in high school. 

I have questions too. I'm glad that they finally explained the origin for the Upside Down but during Dustin's explanation I thought he said that the Mind Flayer was the big boss and that Vecna was like his 5 star general. Did I get backwards, because in that case, does that mean that the Mind Flayer was already in the Upside Down and recruited Vecna or did Vecna create the Mind Flayer? 

6 minutes ago, Redrum said:

I'm terribly shallow. My god, the kid playing Mike is one unattractive kid. 

How did Eight miss out on this?

The actor that plays Mike is just so lanky, it makes him quite awkward looking. 

And yes, it was such an annoying choice for them with the kids, because they very easily could have made one of the kids look like 8, but I was looking for her and none of the kids look like it could be her. And shouldn't she have been killed as well, it's like they completely forgot about her storyline with 11. 

I'm not happy with the Nancy/Jonathan/Steve triangle coming back. It seemed like a totally plausible storyline that Nancy and Jonathan would go their separate ways and want different paths for their lives going forward but to have Nancy jumping right back into being into Steve seems super lazy. I adore Steve, but I just don't feel like he NEEDS to be with anyone, I think his friendship with Robin and the kids is great, he is finding himself and thats fine. 

I'm so glad that Hopper and Joyce reunited. Can't wait for the second half. 

[peridot]

I thought the orderly was an undercover reporter, I wasn't expecting that reveal!
I'm not sure why El didn't just kill him outright, instead of sending him into another dimension. 

I'm surprise Brenner didn't kill One.  The threat of poison wouldn't have kept him down for long.  Brenner should have been watching One, knowing how sly he could be.

I always worry when I see people breathing in the ash from the Upside Down.  Maybe everyone will have health problems down the road.

Overall, this season was interesting but there were a few filler moments that could have been cut.

[SeanC]

15 minutes ago, Redrum said:

Am I the only one who thought One, in retrospect, was pretty youthful looking for someone who had to be mid thirties at least? And more like mid forties?

He was a preteen in 1959, so he'd be early 30s, definitely not near his 40s.

15 minutes ago, Redrum said:

Did we ever get back to the Army guys who were torturing the special agent?

He gave up the location of the facility. That's presumably the next big plot point to come to a head, as both Mike/Will/Jonathan and the bad government guys are headed there.

[Dev F]

28 minutes ago, Redrum said:

The Upside Down does seem to encompass One's love of spidery things.

Yep, which seems like it suggests a couple different possibilities: that One's mind created the Upside Down as we know it, including the black, many-legged Mind Flayer; or One's fascination with spiders drew the attention of the Mind Flayer, and as he progressed to creepy spider worship that was him falling under the Mind Flayer's influence.

Quote

How did Eight miss out on this?

One talks to Eleven about the time when her mother tried to rescue her, which he says happened "when Eight was still here." That means she'd already escaped by the time of this season's flashbacks.

In season 2, Eight says, "I remember the day I came to the rainbow room and you were gone. So when my gifts were strong enough, I used them to escape." And Eleven didn't have any memories of Eight beyond the one her mother showed her, so it doesn't seem like they had much if any contact once El was old enough to really remember her.

What I'd guess is that Brenner probably kept the girls apart after Terry's rescue attempt, so that Eight couldn't remind Eleven of her mother's visit.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Dev F

[Demian]

18 minutes ago, nomodrama said:

My thoughts watching that were that I would have had to start stacking furniture because I never would have been able to climb a bed sheet. I couldn't climb a rope in gym class to save my life when I was in high school. 

WHY IN HELL DID THEY MAKE US TRY TO DO THIS?  Just to humiliate us in front of our peers who actually could climb ropes?  Why was climbing ropes considered a skill we needed to learn?

Obviously, I still have issues.  And this season of Stranger Things has unexpectedly dredged up a lot of them.

24 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

My god, the kid playing Mike is one unattractive kid. 

Finn Wolfhard has both unnaturally perfect cheekbones and an unnaturally perfect jawline.  Despite the fact that he otherwise looks like a scarecrow, his face is gorgeous, and he will make very much more money than the rest of us as a model.

[Quilt Fairy]

24 minutes ago, peridot said:

I'm not sure why El didn't just kill him outright, instead of sending him into another dimension. 

I'm sure she intended to kill him, opening the rift was an accident. 

[PurpleTentacle]

So far this season has been a hell of a lot better than season 3. That's for damn sure. Though if that russian prison would just explode, I wouldn't be angry at this point. That storyline has been such a colossal waste of time and even Hopper's pretty face couldn't distract from how boring his speechifying was.

1 had some good points in his super-villain-speech. The best villains always do. So well done writers, well done.

That the upsidedown is frozen in time makes sense and at the same time it doesn't. It basically has to be, so it is explained why everything is there from our world, just broken down. On the other hand, if nothing there changes other than the electric fields from lights in our world, how was Will able to read the letters his mom put on the christmas lights?

When 11 yeeted 1 into the upsidedown it didn't look all tentacly. So I guess 1 created the upsidedown as we know it today? Then how does the mindflayer figure into that? Also a creation of 1? The gate did look tentacly, but that could have been a reaction to 1 already. Or was the upsidedown always tentacly and we just didn't see it in 1's magical girl transformation sequence?

[PurpleTentacle]

On 5/28/2022 at 5:51 AM, bettername2come said:

Oh, God, I didn't call Vecna attacking Nancy! I mean, I thought others could be in danger because they're all traumatized but I really was confused when she fell into a different space. Oh, I just realized that we've got Nancy versus a Freddie Kruger-esque character. Okay, good movie reference there.

Also good callback to Barb and proof that her death did not leave Nancy unphased. The fanbase will be pleased.

20 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

So Brenner is kind of complicit here because he basically modeled his mutant kids after a superpowered sociopath. All the more reason not to trust him.

Though how he knew to make them by giving the mothers LSD still remains a mystery. Nothing like that was mentioned with 1, was it? He was just randomly born with powers, wasn't he? First I thought maybe it had something to do with hoppers speechefying about agent orange, but 1's father fought in WW2, not Vietnam.

15 hours ago, nomodrama said:

I have questions too. I'm glad that they finally explained the origin for the Upside Down but during Dustin's explanation I thought he said that the Mind Flayer was the big boss and that Vecna was like his 5 star general. Did I get backwards, because in that case, does that mean that the Mind Flayer was already in the Upside Down and recruited Vecna or did Vecna create the Mind Flayer? 

Dustin might just have it wrong. It's not entirely clear so far. But I think signs point to 1 making the upsidedown what it is today.

15 hours ago, SeanC said:

He was a preteen in 1959, so he'd be early 30s, definitely not near his 40s.

It's 1986 in the show. He looks like maybe 10 in 1959, so he'd be 27. Even if he's 12 in 1959, he'd only be 29 in 1986.

It's weird. The 80s feel so much closer to today than the 50s or even the 60s, but if you think about it 1960 to 1980 is only 20 years and we are more than 40 years out from 1980.

Edit: It was waaay late when I wrote this post and my math was crap. In 79, when the massacre would have taken place, he'd be about 30. That is correct.

Edited May 29, 2022 by PurpleTentacle

[Chicago Redshirt]

4 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Though how he knew to make them by giving the mothers LSD still remains a mystery. Nothing like that was mentioned with 1, was it? He was just randomly born with powers, wasn't he? First I thought maybe it had something to do with hoppers speechefying about agent orange, but 1's father fought in WW2, not Vietnam.

Dustin might just have it wrong. It's not entirely clear so far. But I think signs point to 1 making the upsidedown what it is today.

It's 1986 in the show. He looks like maybe 10 in 1959, so he'd be 27. Even if he's 12 in 1959, he'd only be 29 in 1986.

One talked about how both parents were pretending to be normal good people but were hiding secrets. We saw from the episode with Victor that at least part of his secret is he apparently blew up German civilians in WWII. We didn't get to see much of anything about the mother, but maybe she had a drug habit, and Brenner intuited from that that he should try to duplicate what happened with One.

If 1 was 10 in 1959, that means he would be 30 in 1979. I don't remember if it was fully established when the massacre in Hawkins happened, but presumably it would have been prior to the events of the first season, so 1983 or earlier.

[Harvey]

On a re-watch and the first scene where 001 attacked the guards was so cool. Very well-done. I can't help but feel they deserved it also, those grown men wanted to use electroshock on literal children. Freaks. If you treat someone like that don't be surprised if he retaliates.

[Lady Calypso]

4 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

If 1 was 10 in 1959, that means he would be 30 in 1979. I don't remember if it was fully established when the massacre in Hawkins happened, but presumably it would have been prior to the events of the first season, so 1983 or earlier.

In the first episode, the title card said September 8th, 1979 for the massacre.

[Redrum]

9 hours ago, nomodrama said:

And yes, it was such an annoying choice for them with the kids, because they very easily could have made one of the kids look like 8, but I was looking for her and none of the kids look like it could be her. And shouldn't she have been killed as well, it's like they completely forgot about her storyline with 11. 

And yet they were showing the flashbacks of Eleven and Eight when El's mom got into the facility. 

6 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

If 1 was 10 in 1959, that means he would be 30 in 1979. I don't remember if it was fully established when the massacre in Hawkins happened, but presumably it would have been prior to the events of the first season, so 1983 or earlier.

To my original point - maybe its just me but One looked about the same age as the older "teens" on the show like Steve, Nanci etc and not someone early thirties. 

I'm also kind of questioning why One was wandering around the other special kids if he was essentially a project failure. 

[Emily Thrace]

7 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Though how he knew to make them by giving the mothers LSD still remains a mystery. Nothing like that was mentioned with 1, was it? He was just randomly born with powers, wasn't he? First I thought maybe it had something to do with hoppers speechefying about agent orange, but 1's father fought in WW2, not Vietnam.

Its often down played but most soldiers in WW2 had access to Amphetamines and used them heavily. Victor refers to the new house as clean fresh start. I wonder if after the incident in France he didn't end up an addict. Just because MK Ultra used LSD doesn't mean that was what Brenner used exclusively. Plus that would fit with my theory that Brenner is an ex Nazi scientist. He could have easily stumbled across an infant who was affected accidentally by the drugs during WW2 (who was then killed for one reason or another) and then continued his experiments once he got the chance in the US.

I have always assumed the Upside down was influenced by the people who are pulled in their and by Will in particular because he was there and conscious the longest. That the monster or the place itself pulled a lot of its knowledge of the world from Will. That's why its monsters are so similar to D&D because that is Will's frame of reference for monsters.

[overtherainbow]

Hopefully the final two episodes will tie the Russia storyline in better.  I did like that Hopper got more character development and wasn't such a joke this season but I agree that it feels like filler. Murray is entertaining enough though.

So Vecna/One didn't create the upside down, but was just banished to it by El and created the creatures in it. That was quite an origin story. I knew there was something up with Victor's son when he said he'd only slipped into a coma, rather than killed. 

That jock kid is super annoying. I can't help but want him to get picked off in the finale.

This season is SO much better than the last.

Edited May 29, 2022 by overtherainbow

[charmed1]

I’m sure someone has already mentioned this, but unless the Hellfire Club has managed to find her an endless supply, there’s no way Max’s batteries are going to be able to last all day in that Walkman. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, Redrum said:

To my original point - maybe its just me but One looked about the same age as the older "teens" on the show like Steve, Nanci etc and not someone early thirties. 

I'm also kind of questioning why One was wandering around the other special kids if he was essentially a project failure. 

It looks like the One actor is in his low 30s, and the actors playing Steve and Nancy are right around there too. 

As to One, I suppose calling him a project failure is a little harsh. He was the wellspring from which the project grew. He obviously had the abilities fully manifest, and Brenner thought he could keep him in check with the implant. It was potentially worth it to keep him around for future lab rat purposes as well as to potentially mentor the younglings. 

Some of the questions I have:

1. Why did One not simply take the implant out himself? It seemed to be in a pretty obvious place and yes, I suppose your neck is probably not the most comfortable of locations to cut for fear of bleeding out but it certainly is doable. I get that he may not have much access to knives but it seems like it would be easier to get access to a knife or a sharp object like cut glass than it would be to groom El to take it out, or to trust El's TK was refined enough to do the job.

2. Was there a reason why One was taking a shine to El as opposed to the others, or was he trying this recruitment with each of the younglings? Are we supposed to think pedo vibes? Or is it because El is more powerful than the others?

3. Is there an in-universe reason why One killed the younglings as opposed to recruiting them? The real reasons as far as I can tell are "Because we can say unequivocally that One is evil for killing innocent children" and "Because if One spares even a single youngling, it makes El less special and less of our only hope."

4. Speaking of "No, there is another," shouldn't El or a number of other people have pointed out that as far as we know, 8 and her band of superpowered peeps are still around and might be of some use?

[Harvey]

2 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

It looks like the One actor is in his low 30s, and the actors playing Steve and Nancy are right around there too. 

As to One, I suppose calling him a project failure is a little harsh. He was the wellspring from which the project grew. He obviously had the abilities fully manifest, and Brenner thought he could keep him in check with the implant. It was potentially worth it to keep him around for future lab rat purposes as well as to potentially mentor the younglings. 

Some of the questions I have:

1. Why did One not simply take the implant out himself? It seemed to be in a pretty obvious place and yes, I suppose your neck is probably not the most comfortable of locations to cut for fear of bleeding out but it certainly is doable. I get that he may not have much access to knives but it seems like it would be easier to get access to a knife or a sharp object like cut glass than it would be to groom El to take it out, or to trust El's TK was refined enough to do the job.

2. Was there a reason why One was taking a shine to El as opposed to the others, or was he trying this recruitment with each of the younglings? Are we supposed to think pedo vibes? Or is it because El is more powerful than the others?

3. Is there an in-universe reason why One killed the younglings as opposed to recruiting them? The real reasons as far as I can tell are "Because we can say unequivocally that One is evil for killing innocent children" and "Because if One spares even a single youngling, it makes El less special and less of our only hope."

4. Speaking of "No, there is another," shouldn't El or a number of other people have pointed out that as far as we know, 8 and her band of superpowered peeps are still around and might be of some use?

1. Well....because that would be freaking terrifying? Cutting yourself with a cut glass? Yeah, can't blame him for not going that route.

2. It's because El is the strongest, he views her as being on his level. He mentioned multiple times that they are "the same" and in an earlier episode he talked about the similarities more, how things were hard for him too in the beginning.

3. Killing them made him stronger. He literally said this.

4. Lots of people mentioned that. 8 might make an appearance in season 5.

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 minutes ago, charmed1 said:

I’m sure someone has already mentioned this, but unless the Hellfire Club has managed to find her an endless supply, there’s no way Max’s batteries are going to be able to last all day in that Walkman. 

I don't know about an endless supply, but I'd imagine they could pick up at least a dozen sets of AA batteries, and that would be enough to keep the Walkman going more than the time frame that has taken place. Also, it's worth pointing out that she isn't constantly playing the walkman but only when she has particular reason to fear Vecna may be attacking.

I suppose this raises a question of why the rest of our heroes haven't armed themselves with Walkmen and mixtapes of protection +2.

[Blue Plastic]

11 hours ago, peridot said:

I always worry when I see people breathing in the ash from the Upside Down.  Maybe everyone will have health problems down the road.

Me too.  It can’t be good for your lungs to breathe that!  It looks like big chunks of lint to me, but maybe it’s just some kind of snow-like stuff made out of water vapor, though hard to imagine it’s not harmful since almost everything else there will hurt you.

I really don’t buy that One wouldn’t have simply killed El right after she removed the inhibiting device.

[Mr. R0b0t]

This is by far my favorite season yet.  Just loving the way theyve amped up the gore and the stakes and deftly woven in new faces.  Looking forward to July 1st.

[Dev F]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

As to One, I suppose calling him a project failure is a little harsh. He was the wellspring from which the project grew. He obviously had the abilities fully manifest, and Brenner thought he could keep him in check with the implant. It was potentially worth it to keep him around for future lab rat purposes as well as to potentially mentor the younglings.

It did occur to me that there's another possible reason they might keep One around, though it's quite dark and unpleasant and I don't think anything in the season thus far has alluded to it. Which is to say, if One is actually the father of any of the younger subjects, he doesn't seem to be aware of it.

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

Well....because that would be freaking terrifying? Cutting yourself with a cut glass? Yeah, can't blame him for not going that route.

It's also possible that the chip has defenses against self-removal—say, if One tries to tamper with it, it disrupts his nervous system so he can't go through with it.

Speaking of which, I wonder if I was the only one who interpreted the story of Eleven freeing One from his chip as an explanation for how she lost her abilities. That is, I wonder if when she used her powers to dig the shard of the Mind Flayer's monster out of her leg, it triggered her repressed memory of digging the chip out of One's neck and kicking off his massacre, and the stress of having to repress those memories all over again scrambled her powers.

[DoctorAtomic]

11 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

It's weird. The 80s feel so much closer to today than the 50s or even the 60s, but if you think about it 1960 to 1980 is only 20 years and we are more than 40 years out from 1980.

The 80s was like last week!

Well, I wasn't the only person who thought the orderly was 001, but I don't think anyone would have guessed this! 
I don't think Eleven knew what she was doing when she ripped open the Upside Down. The guy nearly killed her, and probably she just unleashed all she had. I don't think anyone in the laboratory would have postulated that these powers could open dimensions. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I didn't mind Hopper's plot. I think it needed to end there by now though. They still need to get out of Russia. 

[Blue Plastic]

1 minute ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I didn't mind Hopper's plot. I think it needed to end there by now though. They still need to get out of Russia. 

I really, really hope we don't have to see every detail of how they get out.  Please, please, Show, no more Russian prisons and trekking across frozen landscapes!

[PurpleTentacle]

5 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

Its often down played but most soldiers in WW2 had access to Amphetamines and used them heavily. Victor refers to the new house as clean fresh start. I wonder if after the incident in France he didn't end up an addict. Just because MK Ultra used LSD doesn't mean that was what Brenner used exclusively. Plus that would fit with my theory that Brenner is an ex Nazi scientist. He could have easily stumbled across an infant who was affected accidentally by the drugs during WW2 (who was then killed for one reason or another) and then continued his experiments once he got the chance in the US.

Amphetamins and LSD aren't even close to the same thing. Also DNA corruption in the father wouldn't happen with any of these drugs. Hopefully we'll get an explaination at some point.

[overtherainbow]

4 hours ago, Dev F said:

It did occur to me that there's another possible reason they might keep One around, though it's quite dark and unpleasant and I don't think anything in the season thus far has alluded to it. Which is to say, if One is actually the father of any of the younger subjects, he doesn't seem to be aware of it.

It's also possible that the chip has defenses against self-removal—say, if One tries to tamper with it, it disrupts his nervous system so he can't go through with it.

Speaking of which, I wonder if I was the only one who interpreted the story of Eleven freeing One from his chip as an explanation for how she lost her abilities. That is, I wonder if when she used her powers to dig the shard of the Mind Flayer's monster out of her leg, it triggered her repressed memory of digging the chip out of One's neck and kicking off his massacre, and the stress of having to repress those memories all over again scrambled her powers.

That would be quite a twist if he actually ends up being El's biological father, but it would make sense seeing as they both about match each other in terms of power. Sort of like a Darth Vader moment. Have they even alluded to who her real dad might be on the show? Like if One was that powerful it would make sense that Brenner would want him to reproduce. Maybe Terry Ives was an easy target

[Brn2bwild]

17 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Well, it's not just you.  I shudder every time his face pops up on the screen. 

I think he has great bone structure, but he got saddled with a terrible wig.  He's looked more attractive in real life.  Same with Will - he looks less attractive because they stuck him with that terrible and fake-looking bowl cut rather than another 80s-appropriate hair style that would have allowed him to use his own hair.  

[Dev F]

14 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

I think he has great bone structure, but he got saddled with a terrible wig.  He's looked more attractive in real life.  Same with Will - he looks less attractive because they stuck him with that terrible and fake-looking bowl cut rather than another 80s-appropriate hair style that would have allowed him to use his own hair.  

At least with Mike, his unflattering look seems to match where the character is at this point, how he's not quite sure who he is -- awkwardly trying to be a cool guy by combining his new hero Eddie Munson's look with what he imagines Califonia style to look like. With Will, on the other hand, whose storyline seems to center around him having finally come to terms with the part of himself that he could previously only express by putting on a sparkly purple robe and declaring a day without girls, it's weird that he's still walking around with a little boy's bowl cut. 

[Writing Wrongs]

19 hours ago, nomodrama said:

My thoughts watching that were that I would have had to start stacking furniture because I never would have been able to climb a bed sheet. I couldn't climb a rope in gym class to save my life when I was in high school. 

LOL. I never even tried. I walked up to it, gave it a tug and said no.

I realized that all the stuff with El and the others reminds me of the show, Dark Angel.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Writing Wrongs

[Emily Thrace]

3 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Also DNA corruption in the father wouldn't happen with any of these drugs. Hopefully we'll get an explaination at some point.

El's aunt specifically mentions drug cocktails being used in season 2 so it stands to reason they weren't just using Lsd. Amphetamines do actually make sense if you are trying to "expand the boundaries of the mind" since it essentially speeds it up.

There's really no definitive answer as to wether or not either drug causes inheritable defects in any case. Mostly because it never been effectively studied. Amphetamines do cause dna changes in animals so its theoretically possible in any case.

Also since when are Steve and Nancy "true love"? I thought the whole problem in the first place was that she didn't really love him. She likes Steve and is attracted to Steve but I still think all the reasons they broke up are still there. A big one is that Steve is not academically inclined or ambitious at all and Nancy is seriously driven. That's not a knock on Steve its just who he is and he shouldn't have to change that to suit Nancy. I don't see him following her to Emerson so it still ends badly. I just hope they don't trash any of the characters while this plays out. Or decide to kill off one of them like they resolved the shows prior triangle.