S42.E06: You Can't Hide on Survivor/S42.07: The Devil You Do or the Devil You Don't

[iMonrey]

Quote

The show has proven they can produce a cheaper product in less time as long as they stuff it with an overabundance of unnecessary twists, advantages and bullshit that completely detracts from the actual storytelling, for me.  

I get that they feel like they have to keep the show fresh by adding new elements and trying different things, but there's such a glut of idols, advantages and twists it's just not a fair game anymore. The game is playing the players rather than the other way around. It's all designed to cause chaos and throw everything out of whack. Honestly, the final three almost wind up there due to sheer chance and dumb luck. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

16 minutes ago, violet and green said:

How is she going to grow into her field? She has zero self-awareness and low empathy.

What makes you think she has significantly less self-awareness or empathy than any other competitor this season or in general?

In fairness, and even assuming you're correct in your assessment, how someone seems to play the game isn't necessarily how they actually are or how they would act in a professional setting.

Tori could be the recipient/victim of editing by the producers that makes her seem worse than she actually is and therefore more entertaining (at least to some).

Tori could be putting on a facade here on Survivor because things that are rewarded in many/most professional settings (trustworthiness, predictability, selflessness, etc) are not rewarded in Survivor and arguably are actively punished.

Or assuming that the snarkiness/pettiness/etc. that we see here is a real reflection of who she is, she could put on a professional face as a therapist and be effective at it.

[violet and green]

1 minute ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

In fairness, and even assuming you're correct in your assessment, how someone seems to play the game isn't necessarily how they actually are or how they would act in a professional setting.

I'm not talking about gameplay. A therapist doesn't 'act' when it comes to empathy. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

12 minutes ago, violet and green said:

I'm not talking about gameplay. A therapist doesn't 'act' when it comes to empathy. 

Fair enough, but I am still wondering what she has done that shows a pronounced lack of empathy or self-awareness in your view.

[eskimo]

22 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Fair enough, but I am still wondering what she has done that shows a pronounced lack of empathy or self-awareness in your view.

In my view, her attitude towards Rocks is example #1.  She for real though he owed her something.  Both information he had and, gratitude...I guess... for sending him to exile.  She was legitimately pissed he used a game changing power, that she knew he would get.  She seems to think he is there for her benefit, and is upset that he doesn't also seem to think so.  She is a mean girl in that way.  

 

[Guest]

I haven't seen any exit interviews yet this season, but I wonder if Tori is getting a bit of an Angelina edit. That is, the players' reactions we're seeing to a lot of her antics are for real, but the antics are all we're being shown and the other players like her just fine. Almost everyone who came out of David vs. Goliath said in interviews that Angelina was extremely sweet and kind and thoughtful, even as they chuckled over her gameplay, but all we got in the show was clueless, scheming, hapless Angelina. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that something similar is going on with Tori, and she's not quite the social pariah she's being portrayed as - the editors have just decided it's more entertaining this way (and they're not wrong!), and as with DvG, there's no true villain so they have to kind of create one.

Now she still probably has no chance of winning, mind you, but I'd bet she wouldn't come off so bad if one had the full picture of her.

[nlkm9]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Fair enough, but I am still wondering what she has done that shows a pronounced lack of empathy or self-awareness in your view.

with all her faces and eyerolls I would NEVER go to her--shes the type who snarks to her friends about her patients

[violet and green]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Fair enough, but I am still wondering what she has done that shows a pronounced lack of empathy or self-awareness in your view.

I can't go combing through the last 6/7 episodes to find examples if you can't see it. To be clear, I am not talking about her villain-esque to-camera pieces, when she is clearly playing up to her role. I am talking about numerous incidents in camp, from the very first episode.

As mentioned above, her response to Rocksroy after the hourglass decision. Entitled. That level of entitlement is a kind of self-delusion mostly displayed by more narcissistic types, though it is common these days. She has made so many pointedly unkind comments, mean facial expressions, expressions of revulsion and disgust and mockery - none of which is what someone is looking for in any sort of counsellor or therapist.

[Hudson0325]

23 hours ago, DEL901 said:

He is a veterinarian and in Canada, it is harder to get into vet school than medical school.  

It’s harder in the US too. There are far more medical schools than vet schools

[ljenkins782]

11 hours ago, mojoween said:

Snerk.  I looooove chain restaurants.  Went to New York City, and happily ate at TGIFriday’s.  I want Texas Roadhouse tomorrow.  But Applebee’s is bad by reputation, at least in my neck of the woods and with personal experience, and those burgers looked super duper gross to me.

Also watching people sucking on chicken wings (even Jonathan!) is horrific.

Yes, sucking the meat off chicken wings grosses me out, even though I like wings (I bite the meat and avoid the ends.)

As for Applebees, I’ve eaten there many times (and even briefly worked there in college) and think their food is gross, particularly the burgers. They always come out like hockey pucks. Their French onion soup is the only item I can tolerate. 
 

Interesting episode but so much to keep track of! I liked Rocksroy enjoying his time alone even before knowing the hourglass thing. In bygone seasons, I’d take that shot of him standing on the hilltop with soaring music as a foreshadowing of a win, but they overuse that music so much anymore that I didn’t bother. Basically any moment they deem potentially discussion worthy now gets that music so it’s not a reliable clue anymore.

I would be amused if Jonathan went on an epic immunity run from here on out, this was a gift wrapped opportunity to get rid of a threat.

I laughed out loud at Mike and Jonathan’s conversation about being judged for being big guys, Mike’s lament at being judged for being a “big dummy” cracked me up. Mainly cause Mike has mostly struck me as being a dummy, though his size hasn’t been that obvious. He’s come across as a bit of a lunkhead and an overly trusting one at that. 
 

it feels like a wide open field at this point and I like a lot of people left so I’m enjoying this season.

[ProfCrash]

Mike might not be traditionally smart but it is not easy to be a Fireman or Police Officer. There are a good number of things that they have to memorize and lots of testing that they have to pass in training. We get stuck on one definition of smart and forget that there are a lot of other components to intelligence. 

I suspect that Mike was more buff and looked to be in shape when he was younger. He is in good shape now and his challenge performance has been pretty damn good. 

 

[Guest]

12 hours ago, violet and green said:

As mentioned above, her response to Rocksroy after the hourglass decision. Entitled. That level of entitlement is a kind of self-delusion mostly displayed by more narcissistic types, though it is common these days. She has made so many pointedly unkind comments, mean facial expressions, expressions of revulsion and disgust and mockery - none of which is what someone is looking for in any sort of counsellor or therapist.

Tori definitely has no poker face, though to me it seems to come out more in eyerolls than any sort of mean expressions of revulsion, disgust and mockery. That's in the eye of the beholder, though.

But I'm honestly struggling to remember her "so many pointedly unkind comments." She sarcastically said "good job on the puzzle" to Zach's back and...what else? I don't count things like hounding Rocksroy about what he did on his journey or complaining about him using the advantage as unkind, since she didn't get personal about it. Meanwhile, I've heard other players make some pointedly unkind comments (about Daniel and Maryanne, for example), so Tori would hardly be alone in that.

So yeah, Tori's extra and can be annoying...but this characterization of her as a mean girl doesn't quite hold up for me.

[Lantern7]

I don't know if Erik is doing two comics covering both hours. If it's just this one, I think it's a classic.

It's not embedding on my phone. Seriously, it is cute. 

ETA: Copy and pasted from RealityTea. I don't think those four were slacking, but Jonathan was pulling that much weight, figurative and literal.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Lantern7

[violet and green]

29 minutes ago, tracyscott76 said:

But I'm honestly struggling to remember her "so many pointedly unkind comments."

I was talking about over the 6/7 episodes.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, violet and green said:

I was talking about over the 6/7 episodes.

Yes, I know. That's why I referenced her comment to Zach from the first episode. I still don't remember a litany of unkind comments from her over the course of the season.

[DEL901]

24 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

I don't know if Erik is doing two comics covering both hours. If it's just this one, I think its a classic.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CcXzLnCrL11/

It's not embedding on my phone. Srerously, it is cute. 

Perfect!

[AntFTW]

I feel like I missed something.

So... for the people that risked their vote and lost it, when do they get it back?

[DEL901]

3 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

I feel like I missed something.

So... for the people that risked their vote and lost it, when do they get it back?

I think they all have their votes back now.   If they risked and lost it, it was just for the next tribal council.  Omar was the last one because Orange avoided TC for a long time.  For the three way idol, now that they all said the phrase that pays, they have their votes back too.  

[AntFTW]

20 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

I think they all have their votes back now.   If they risked and lost it, it was just for the next tribal council.  Omar was the last one because Orange avoided TC for a long time.  For the three way idol, now that they all said the phrase that pays, they have their votes back too.  

Ok, that makes sense. I must have tuned out at TC because I thought Chanelle still didn't have a vote during this TC... so it was only Omar that didn't have a vote.

[Chicago Redshirt]

15 hours ago, eskimo said:

In my view, her attitude towards Rocks is example #1.  She for real though he owed her something.  Both information he had and, gratitude...I guess... for sending him to exile.  She was legitimately pissed he used a game changing power, that she knew he would get.  She seems to think he is there for her benefit, and is upset that he doesn't also seem to think so.  She is a mean girl in that way.  

 

I get where this attitude shows her being a mean girl and overly entitled. 

To me, that is different from lacking empathy and being self-unaware, or at least, substantially more so than other contestants.

It is a fairly common thing for contestants to have blinders on and think that other contestants should just naturally be doing their bidding. Drea earlier this season was one example when she literally said chose to risk her vote because she thought that Omar would want to do what was best for Drea. 

15 hours ago, violet and green said:

I can't go combing through the last 6/7 episodes to find examples if you can't see it.

No worries. I'm not asking anyone to comb through episodes to come up with examples.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I would be amused if Jonathan went on an epic immunity run from here on out, this was a gift wrapped opportunity to get rid of a threat.

The good news (for Jonathan) is that there was no immediate plan to target him, as most assumed there would be. It wasn't until he became one of only five even eligible to be voted out that his name came up. I think Omar, Maryanne and Lindsay see the value in staying tight, and that some of the others see the value in keeping him around a bit longer as a meat shield. This may end up being to their detriment, because the further he gets, the greater his chances of going on a run. Especially with all the shenanigans this show throws into the mix.

Quote

Mike might not be traditionally smart but it is not easy to be a Fireman or Police Officer. There are a good number of things that they have to memorize and lots of testing that they have to pass in training. We get stuck on one definition of smart and forget that there are a lot of other components to intelligence. 

As a long-time viewer of Dateline I can emphatically state, intelligence is not a requirement to being a police officer. Mike doesn't strike me as being particularly bright, to be quite frank. 

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

20 hours ago, Brendan Birch said:

Oh!  Another pleasant change that I'm very surprised that no one's brought up in the threads for this or last season.

I am very glad that, at the end of each Tribal Council, Probst has stopped giving his completely nonsensical, unnecessary "words of wisdom" that are really just a bunch of unneeded word salad.  He just snuffs the bootee, watches him or her leave, and sends the surviving castaways back to camp.  Very refreshing change.

Julie Chen Moonves should take notes.

I also loved Peachy calling out Maryanne for being an annoying motormouth without being mean about it: something like "You almost want to vote a person out just so you can get some sleep" or whatever.

I hope Jonathan realizes the enormous target on his back going forward. He's a real risk to pull a Kelly Wigglesworth and just start winning challenge after challenge, and at least some of the castmates are figuring this out.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Sir RaiderDuck OMS

[ProfCrash]

29 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

The good news (for Jonathan) is that there was no immediate plan to target him, as most assumed there would be. It wasn't until he became one of only five even eligible to be voted out that his name came up. I think Omar, Maryanne and Lindsay see the value in staying tight, and that some of the others see the value in keeping him around a bit longer as a meat shield. This may end up being to their detriment, because the further he gets, the greater his chances of going on a run. Especially with all the shenanigans this show throws into the mix.

As a long-time viewer of Dateline I can emphatically state, intelligence is not a requirement to being a police officer. Mike doesn't strike me as being particularly bright, to be quite frank. 

Mike was a Firefighter. He had to memorize a lot of technical details regarding fire, safety equipment, life saving techniques and the like and be able to use them in a moments notice. He seems to be a straight shooter with limited filter but he made a career in a hard field that requires a good amount of specific information and knowledge. 

[fishcakes]

2 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Mike was a Firefighter. He had to memorize a lot of technical details regarding fire, safety equipment, life saving techniques and the like and be able to use them in a moments notice. He seems to be a straight shooter with limited filter but he made a career in a hard field that requires a good amount of specific information and knowledge. 

Also most firefighters (at least in metro fire departments, where I assume he worked) are EMTs and a lot of them are paramedics. He almost certainly has a fair amount of medical knowledge too.

[RedbirdNelly]

* I don't like the hourglass challenge but this was at least better in that the winners had some warning the person picked would get power-and the chance to go instead. I'd still prefer they drop it

* Tori is reminding me of Angela. It made no sense to tell Rocksroy "we sent you so you'd get the power" but at the same time essentially say "and once you got it, you were not supposed to use it."

*I'm glad they picked Rocksroy since he seemed to enjoy it more than anyone would

* I didn't see any chance he didn't smash the glass UNLESS he came up with some "it would be dishonorable; this is like a participation trophy" type view of it. There was a moment he mentioned honor and I thought he might go there

* I last ate at Applebee's around 1991. It was with my now husband when $$ were short. It was awful. I regretted not just going to McDonald's. My husband and I made a "life decision" to never eat there again. When our kids were little and would react to an Applebee's after hearing the ads, and ask us why we never went there, my husband would insist that they only served broccoli as our little inside joke. It cracked me up when Jeff announced Applebee's. I know we wouldn't make the show, but any takes with a member of my family would involve commentary like "I made a life decision in 1991 to never eat there again, but since I'm starving, I guess I'll eat it." or "My parents hated Applebee's so much they lied to us and told us they only served broccoli. This will be my first time to ever eat their food."

 

[Whimsy]

Episode threads should be limited to talk about what happened within the episode. There’s been some off-topic discussion and even some snipping between posters and their opinions of a player.
 

From this point forward there is not to be personal antidotes about Applebee’s experiences and no more discussion about Tori’s behavior/performance in past episodes. Individual discussions about Tori can go in her thread, but only if they are civil. Uncivil/argumentative posts will be removed. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Mike was a Firefighter. He had to memorize a lot of technical details regarding fire, safety equipment, life saving techniques and the like and be able to use them in a moments notice. He seems to be a straight shooter with limited filter but he made a career in a hard field that requires a good amount of specific information and knowledge. 

Taking this to the Mike thread.

[LanceM]

I will never understand trying to relate to how people act on Survivor to how they are in their real life job. They are playing a game. A game in which lying and deceit is at its core. A game where you want to know what other people are thinking at all times.  So yeah, Tori wants to know to know what Rocksroy knows. She is not alone on this. Her issue she is not too subtle about it. lol. Her social game is a trainnwreck. It is what makes her entertaining.  As far as "mean" comments to others?  Seriously?  She is not the only one who does this I can guarantee you anyone on this sub who was forced to live with people who you may not like or who may annoy you 24 hours a day, day after day, I am thinking you would probably have some choice words to say. I know I would.

(I won't even get into the whole "this show is edited" argument and how the show can turn anyone into a villain if they only show the negative. parts. Not that I know this is exactly what is happening but it wouldn't shock me)

Edited April 15, 2022 by LanceM

[Haleth]

1 hour ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

I hope Jonathan realizes the enormous target on his back going forward. He's a real risk to pull a Kelly Wigglesworth and just start winning challenge after challenge, and at least some of the castmates are figuring this out.

Anything is possible, but at this point in the game the challenges tend to be more balance and puzzles rather than brute strength to level the playing field. 

[ProfCrash]

8 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Anything is possible, but at this point in the game the challenges tend to be more balance and puzzles rather than brute strength to level the playing field. 

Dude surfs, I bet he can do pretty well on balance tasks. I am not going to be surprised to find he leads yoga classes on the beach….

The puzzles could be an issue or he could pull a fast one on all of us and turn out to be amazing at puzzles. I kind of really want that to happen. “Psyche! I knew there were 51 triangles in that puzzle and oh my god are you people slow putting puzzles together….”

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Dude surfs, I bet he can do pretty well on balance tasks. I am not going to be surprised to find he leads yoga classes on the beach….

If it's the kind of balance task that requires them to grip onto increasingly tiny nibs with the sides of their feet, that could be a problem for him. Large fellas don't typically do well with those, do they? At any rate, I do think that people don't need to be quite as fearful of a challenge run as they used to be, so I can see why Jonathan wasn't targeted at the first opportunity.

Unless the tunic isn't just cosplay, and he really is Samson. Quick, get some scissors!

Edited April 15, 2022 by tracyscott76

[eelpout]

22 hours ago, violet and green said:

She has made so many pointedly unkind comments, mean facial expressions, expressions of revulsion and disgust and mockery - none of which is what someone is looking for in any sort of counsellor or therapist.

If before seeing this season Tori was my therapist, it would be highly unlikely now after seeing all this she would continue to be my therapist.

Edited April 15, 2022 by eelpout

[ljenkins782]

11 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Mike might not be traditionally smart but it is not easy to be a Fireman or Police Officer. There are a good number of things that they have to memorize and lots of testing that they have to pass in training. We get stuck on one definition of smart and forget that there are a lot of other components to intelligence. 

I suspect that Mike was more buff and looked to be in shape when he was younger. He is in good shape now and his challenge performance has been pretty damn good. 

His challenge performance in this episode was phenomenal and would have been the story of the challenge, if not for Jonathan's He-Man performance. 

But in general, he gives off a slightly dottering vibe, like he's taking advice from everyone and not always to his benefit. And really, it was just the phrase "big dummy" uttered in his super thick NJ accent that made me laugh.

Quote

If before seeing this season Tori was my therapist, it would be highly unlikely now after seeing all this she would continue to be my therapist.

Agreed. Contrasting her with someone like Denise, also a therapist, Denise comported herself in a way that made me think I would trust her as a therapist. Tori's come across as judgmental and reactionary in a way that I think would make it difficult to see her as a trusted confidante.

Quote

If it's the kind of balance task that requires them to grip onto increasingly tiny nibs with the sides of their feet, that could be a problem for him. Large fellas don't typically do well with those, do they? At any rate, I do think that people don't need to be quite as fearful of a challenge run as they used to be, so I can see why Jonathan wasn't targeted at the first opportunity.

Even the immunity challenge in this past episode showed that there are some challenges you can't just hulk your way through. And his lack of acumen with puzzles is being broadcast to all courtesy of Lindsay, so I can understand them deciding that his food catching skills and the possibility of ending up on his team if they do group reward challenges is worth the risk of a potential immunity run. Plenty more immunity challenges to go and there will be some that can't be muscled through on sheer will.

[Nashville]

23 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Honestly, the final three almost wind up there due to sheer chance and dumb luck. 

“Almost”???  🤣🤣🤣
 

23 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Tori could be the recipient/victim of editing by the producers that makes her seem worse than she actually is and therefore more entertaining (at least to some).

I see your point, but my negative opinion of Tori is not based on her attempts to gaslight her co-players; it’s based upon her attempts to gaslight US - the audience, that is, in her THs.  From Ep1 we’ve seen Tori makes statements of fact (“so yeah I said I was out collecting taro leaves, but I was really looking for an idol”) which she then later attempts - or appears to attempt, at least - to contradict (“and then when I’m out trying to gather food for the tribe, they actually accuse me of idol-hunting???  HOW DARE THEY!?!?”).

IMHO this more than anything else indicates an extreme lack of self-awareness and/or narcissism: the notions that either (a) others are somehow obligated to blindly accept an absolute vacuum of historical reference in relation to whatever falls out of Tori’s mouth, or (b) Tori thinks she’s sooo wonderful that folks (audience and players alike) will totally suspend any aspect of critical thinking - or memory even - and swallow whole anything she says.

 

On 4/14/2022 at 3:19 PM, DEL901 said:

I think Mike and Hai want to be linked with Jonathan as physical threats.  It is an ego thing.

Can’t speak to Hai, but in terms of Mike I found this comment very interesting; not because of its accuracy - in fact, I think it’s about 180 degrees off point- but because it succinctly illustrates what Mike was actually referring to: people’s preconceived notions about / prejudices against the more physically imposing players.

To the best of my recollection neither Jonathan nor Mike has ever suggested they think they can beastmode power themselves to the F3 singlehandedly, but (as Mike pointed out) Jonathan and Mike automatically have a target on their backs simply because they are the two physically biggest players on the beach - which makes them easy post-merge TC throwaways because all somebody has to do is start beating the “physical comp threat” drum to send them down the Path of Shame.  Mike’s comments were not focused on his and Jonathan’s lack of need for a social game, but more actually the opposite: their social games are immediately handicapped simply because of their size, which presents a significantly formidable obstacle to overcome - so since both of them face overcoming the same obstacle, they need to mutually support each other if either is going to have a chance in hell of making it to the end.  Mike demonstrated absolute awareness neither he nor Jonathan was going to win because of their size - they’d have to find a way to win in spite of their size. 

[Taeolas]

One thing I noticed with the Turn Back Time challenge, is that the initial winners, when they picked who should be voted out, they also considered the chance that they would lose their immunity when ROck came back. So they did seem well aware of what might be happening. That probably took some of the sting off since the meal bonus couldn't be taken away regardless. 

The only issue was that their target on their side, Tori, won immunity which sent them scrambling and lead to the results we saw. 

[MsTree]

14 hours ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

I hope Jonathan realizes the enormous target on his back going forward. He's a real risk to pull a Kelly Wigglesworth and just start winning challenge after challenge, and at least some of the castmates are figuring this out.

I'm sure he does, and I wish there was some way producers can figure out challenges without having them geared towards strength only. Otherwise they should just tell casting to put out a notice saying "No need to apply if you are physically strong".

What happened to voting out tribe members via the alphabet? 😜

[Birnam Wood]

Daniel must have been gobsmacked watching the episode: “But Omar’s not a lawyer. How did he DO that???”

I’ve never eaten at Applebee’s, and, as a Canadian, am not ever likely to do so. Even if I were so inclined, though, I once caught a commercial of theirs in which the tagline was the grammatical train wreck “Eatin’ good in the neighbourhood” (no, I will not drop that “u”). NOPE NOPE NOPE.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Anything is possible, but at this point in the game the challenges tend to be more balance and puzzles rather than brute strength to level the playing field. 

Jonathan doesn't need to win every immunity challenge. All he has to do is "happen upon" a hidden immunity idol, "by chance," or some other advantage that he just happens to "stumble upon" because he is lucky and not because the producers put it there for him to find, don't you know.

[LadyChatts]

On 4/14/2022 at 5:35 PM, tracyscott76 said:

I've been a stealth Chanelle fan for a while now. Between her and Tori being in constant trouble, and my other fave Lindsay being one of the few under-edited people this season, my rooting interests are not looking good 😆

For once I'm actually not rooting against anyone, and even a Tori win wouldn't make me rip my hair out like some previous outcomes would have.  Of course I can't see her winning, but who knows, she might just eye roll her way to the million.  I'd probably find that more hysterical than anything.  I was looking at her IG page and some of her posts revolve around emotional eating and redefining retail therapy, and as someone who is emotionally eating and shopping her way through her bachelor's program after being out of school for 20 years, maybe I need to retain her services.  I won't lie that I am very curious to read her post show interviews to understand her edit.  

Lindsey's edit I don't get.  It's just very random, there's something weird with her and MaryAnne, and I don't know that she's coming across too likable with what little I've seen of her.  But the random bits that get thrown in, like saying she's a target like Jonathan, are just weird.  Marya also said that Lindsey talked a lot, and that it was hard living with her and MaryAnne because neither of them would ever shut up.  Yet we only caught a brief glimpse of that when they were annoying Jonathan.  So, just a weird edit.

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 4/15/2022 at 6:52 PM, Nashville said:

I see your point, but my negative opinion of Tori is not based on her attempts to gaslight her co-players; it’s based upon her attempts to gaslight US - the audience, that is, in her THs.  From Ep1 we’ve seen Tori makes statements of fact (“so yeah I said I was out collecting taro leaves, but I was really looking for an idol”) which she then later attempts - or appears to attempt, at least - to contradict (“and then when I’m out trying to gather food for the tribe, they actually accuse me of idol-hunting???  HOW DARE THEY!?!?”).

IMHO this more than anything else indicates an extreme lack of self-awareness and/or narcissism: the notions that either (a) others are somehow obligated to blindly accept an absolute vacuum of historical reference in relation to whatever falls out of Tori’s mouth, or (b) Tori thinks she’s sooo wonderful that folks (audience and players alike) will totally suspend any aspect of critical thinking - or memory even - and swallow whole anything she says.

Replying in the Tori thread.

[Scatterbrained]

Jonathan and Mike have both talked about having harsh fathers and being aware of seeming “rough/scary” as a first impression.  Both have talked about consciously monitoring their actions and behaviors to dispel that impression.  Thus far, it seems they have each found a kindred spirit and have bonded with each other.  

[blackwing]

I am all in on Jonathan winning, so from here on out my mantra is Anyone but Jonathan as far as boots.  I have no feelings about Lydia other than I was shocked that Hai voted for her.  I get that he felt outvoted but he didn't even give her the benefit of knowing in advance that the vote had changed.  I get why he didn't, but he's a snake.  She was his #1 and he was so loyal to her that he refused rocks and made the rest alter their decision.  And he rolled over so easily.

Eight out of 12 people are in a giant alliance?  Truly doomed to fail.  How could any of them even think that it would work?

On 4/13/2022 at 9:29 PM, North of Eden said:

In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king or how else could you explain APPLEBEES suddenly being gourmet food?

I get that they are all starving, but I often wonder if contestants are asked to reshoot a scene.  "Not enough energy, I want you all to go bananas when Jeffy announces Applebees."  The reaction did seem a bit over the top.  But I remember a time way back when, when there was a similar reaction to a mere 2 Liter of Mountain Dew and a bag of Doritos.

Also, in a recent season, didn't someone proclaim that "Applebees is my favourite restaurant ever!"  I remember we were all making fun of her.  Was it Karishma?  So I guess perception varies.

On 4/14/2022 at 2:59 AM, Kenzie said:

I hope religion and Omar's parents don't pressure him into marrying this poor girl he's been stringing along for 6 years. He needs to be absolutely sure he's not gay before he involves another person's future.

Thank you, I have been assuming he was gay from the beginning.  I know the recent seasons have increased the number of minority and LGBTQ contestants, and this season I just assumed that Hai, Romeo, the one who had to go home because he was taking Lithium, the other super skinny guy, and Omar were all probably LGBTQ.  I was wondering if there are any LGBTQ on the female side, or if they just aren't as open about it.  Doesn't seem balanced.

I noticed that Omar avoided saying "she" or "her" when talking about his fiance, I was actually half expecting him to say he was a man.

On 4/14/2022 at 10:14 AM, iMonrey said:

I think this hourglass twist infuriated me even more this season than last, because I knew it was coming. So I sat through that torturous challenge knowing whoever won would be screwed. I just wanted to reach through the TV screen and yell "don't bother! All your hard work will just end up being for nothing."

What makes it ten times worse is Jeff's shit eating grin as he talks this stupid twist up for the audience. "This is where it gets fun! Because we're going to fuck them over! Isn't that fun? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! It's going to be so much fun when we fuck them over!" God, I just want to punch him so bad.

I'm sorry, this is just one twist too far. It's bad enough there are three way idols and extra votes and five other people get immunity but to take that from them, after winning that challenge fair and square, just for our "amusement" isn't gameplay. It's just fuckery for the sake of fuckery and I'm sick of it. 

And please, stop pretending there's any "con" to smashing the hourglass. You're going to piss off five people, either way. Only one way gives you immunity. Nobody is going to pass that up.

Yes, if I could count the number of times I have wanted to reach into the TV and throttle Jeffy and get paid for each time, I could retire.  I had been hoping they were going to change the Cher "If Ah Could Tuuuurrrrrnnnn Back Tahmmmm" twist to make it more of a dilemma.  The person charged with the decision can either 1) leave things alone and join the people who lost the challenge and be one of 6 people eligible to be voted out, or 2) get immunity for himself and the other 5 who lost the challenge.  Why on earth would someone want to make themselves vulnerable?  Especially after being gone for two days and having no idea what the others have been talking about and whether he is a target just for going to the island?  Jeffy had already said that this person would have the power to change the game, so what if they all decided to get rid of him?

I cannot remember, did Jeffy announce in S41 to the others that Erika would be given a huge power?  I don't think he did, did he?

On 4/14/2022 at 12:25 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

But when was the last time an alpha dog/muscle man/challenge beast type actually won? 

I don't remember details from all previous seasons I've watched and I've missed a few. But when I think of guys like James and Ozzy, they've been shut out.

Just looking at pics of winners, I don't remember if Ben or Jeremy would count.

I don't think Mike thinks of things that deeply.  I think he purely meant that the strong man / muscle dude / bohunk type always gets targeted because people are afraid of his physical ability in the immunity challenges.  I don't think of Ben as the stereotypical strong man, nor do I think of people like Ozzy who was good at challenges as the muscle man.  Tony is most definitely not a muscle man.

I think Mike purely thinks that people are afraid of the guy with physical strength as a target.  And I think he means the guys that are bodybuilder builds.  Not just young guys who are physically fit (like Tommy and Dean in Island of the Idols).  I think the closest we have come in recent seasons to the type of guy Mike described is John the Mayor of Slamtown from the Nick Wilson season.

On 4/15/2022 at 1:41 PM, Haleth said:

Anything is possible, but at this point in the game the challenges tend to be more balance and puzzles rather than brute strength to level the playing field. 

Well, when Joe Anglim was competing, all of a sudden all of the challenges were seemingly about yoga and balance.  I would not put it past Jeffy to put in a special request to have more brute strength challenges to try and save Jonathan.  Like the one where they load weights in buckets and one man and one woman get immunity.  I seem to think we have not seen that one in a while.

On 4/14/2022 at 1:46 PM, tracyscott76 said:

I don't remember Jonathan wearing that Old Testament cosplay tunic before this episode, but maybe he always had it and has just been mostly going shirtless.

No, I'm pretty sure he's always had this.  Is this what Mike was referring to when he said that Jonathan "dresses weird"?  Because Old Testament cosplay tunic is a hilarious and apt description.  I did notice that he was wearing this when he arrived at the immunity challenge.  But then magically changed into some yellow tank top before the challenge started.  I guess the tunic thing would interfere with his arms.

 

[ProfCrash]

32 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I am all in on Jonathan winning, so from here on out my mantra is Anyone but Jonathan as far as boots.  I have no feelings about Lydia other than I was shocked that Hai voted for her.  I get that he felt outvoted but he didn't even give her the benefit of knowing in advance that the vote had changed.  I get why he didn't, but he's a snake.  She was his #1 and he was so loyal to her that he refused rocks and made the rest alter their decision.  And he rolled over so easily.

Eight out of 12 people are in a giant alliance?  Truly doomed to fail.  How could any of them even think that it would work?

 

 

It would have been 5-3 if they had been able to get out one of the non-alliance members out in the first vote. Maryann was not a part of the 8, It was 5-3 in the original set up. Mike, Hai, Lydia, Drea are 4 non-orange that I remember. Then it was Jonathon, Lindsey, and Omar. I can't think of who Drea's partner was, it would have been Romeo or Rocksroy. I am thinking Rocksroy and he would make sense because he was on exile and couldn't participate in the planning. But I think I remember Romeo talking with the larger group.

Jonathon was willing to sacrifice Maryann, he was not interested in getting rid of Maryann but tossed her name out so that people would see him as willing to sacrifice someone. So she was not a part of the 8. 

If they had been able to vote out Tori or Chanelle or Romeo/Rocksroy then the Non-orange players would outnumber Orange. So while the 3 Orange players were assumed to be tight, the other 5 would have the majority. 

Having to vote out someone in their group changed things quickly. Now Maryann is brought into the alliance and Lydia is no longer in the group. So you have 4 Orange and 4 non-Orange. Essentially the larger alliance is known to be two smaller alliances. Essentially, they can knock out the non-aligned and then go at each other.  

I have no clue if Rocksroy or Romeo are actually in the 8. Neither of them voted with the rest of the group. Rocksroy's vote made no sense and Romeo voted Jonathon. 

I think the larger idea was to work together to vote out the pains in the asses, Tori and Chanelle, and after that it would be a bit of a free for all. It was convenient for Orange who is clearly tight and won a good amount because it gave them breathing room and permission to target the other tribes. It was good for Blue and Green to knock out the people they trust the least. 

[princelina]

On 4/15/2022 at 2:12 PM, LanceM said:

I will never understand trying to relate to how people act on Survivor to how they are in their real life job. They are playing a game. A game in which lying and deceit is at its core. A game where you want to know what other people are thinking at all times.  So yeah, Tori wants to know to know what Rocksroy knows. She is not alone on this. Her issue she is not too subtle about it. lol. Her social game is a trainnwreck. It is what makes her entertaining. 

IMO her problem with the viewing audience stems from her telling us in Ep 1 that she's a therapist, so she's going to be playing with their minds and manipulating them the whole time - and then we get to see just how inept she is at it! 😂. In real life I think she's just young and thinks her diploma alone gives her more skills than it actually does - she just needs some life/work experience.

On 4/16/2022 at 10:05 AM, Birnam Wood said:

Daniel must have been gobsmacked watching the episode: “But Omar’s not a lawyer. How did he DO that???”

Hahahahahahahahaha!

12 hours ago, blackwing said:

I was wondering if there are any LGBTQ on the female side, or if they just aren't as open about it.  Doesn't seem balanced.

I noticed that Omar avoided saying "she" or "her" when talking about his fiance, I was actually half expecting him to say he was a man.

Someone on here said something about Lydia, but I don't know.  As for Omar - he has said he's a virgin because he's a Muslim, so I doubt his fiance is a man.

11 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

I can't think of who Drea's partner was, it would have been Romeo or Rocksroy. 

Rocksroy - she told the group it was him and then he talked briefly with one of the gang (Jonathan?) who told him that Drea had brought him into their group.  I don't know what was up with his vote.

[ProfCrash]

6 hours ago, princelina said:

Someone on here said something about Lydia, but I don't know.  As for Omar - he has said he's a virgin because he's a Muslim, so I doubt his fiance is a man.

Rocksroy - she told the group it was him and then he talked briefly with one of the gang (Jonathan?) who told him that Drea had brought him into their group.  I don't know what was up with his vote.

Muslim does not mean straight anymore then Catholic or Baptist or Jewish or Hindi or any other faith implies straight. You can practice a religion and be a part of the LGBTQ+ community. It might lead to someone staying in the closet or fearing peoples reactions or not acting on their sexuality but Omar could still be Gay. 

I have no clue and I don't care. I will say that I was a virgin at 40 and straight. I wanted to wait until I was married, partly because of my faith and probably because I would be called asexual today. I just don't have a sex drive and there wasn't a term for that when I was growing up. Omar is Omar and I am enjoying his character on this show. His sex life and who he loves is for him to determine. 

Thanks on the Rocksroy, I thought that was who it was but then his vote was no where near the others. I wonder if he was a part of the original 8 and then annoyed people enough upon his return that the only person maybe working with him is Drea. 

[Giesela]

Not sure this is allowed but in a different forum someone pointed out that the I in the stacked word challenge was upside down and that this had been grounds for losing in a previous season.  

Im still not feeling it, as in if there is strategy Im not tracking it because there are to many idols and no votes.   I get why they are doing it.  I remember a stretch of seasons where things got sort of by rote.  Alliance, keep the strong vote out the weak, merge and reverse while trying to maintain your tribe alliance numbers. The one idol throwing the occasional wrench.   Maybe that got a little boring but there was more social drama in tetms of people switching, swing votes.   And a good blindside felt more like a good blindside.  IDK, but I feel the pendulum has swung too far or tgey need to do a better job with these advantage rules besides no votes.  

Also thinking Jonathan will go home based on physical threat history when he doesnt have immunity and I also thought of the shift to big feet tiny board type challenges.  I actually thought he should have pulldd back in some of those challenges and let the chips fall.

I think Mike has a very slight speech impediment.  One that may cause people to think he sounds dumb but I dont think he is.  Doesnt mean he is survivor smart but he is plenty otherwise smart.  

I think I read somewhere that Tori? Hasnt really practiced (as a therapist) much yet.   Internet says she is working on her PhD has launched online courses and online counseling specializing in eating disorders and body positivity.   Hm.  She is a pageant girl and into crossfit.  The exact opposite of who I would want counseling from if I had an eating disorder or body image issue.  

She has been on some kind of reality show and tried out for American Idol.  School and being a therapist sound like a plan B hobby.  

Edited April 20, 2022 by Giesela

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Giesela said:

I think I read somewhere that Tori? Hasnt really practiced (as a therapist) much yet.   Internet says she is working on her PhD has launched online courses and online counseling specializing in eating disorders and body positivity.   Hm.  She is a pageant girl and into crossfit.  The exact opposite of who I would want counseling from if I had an eating disorder or body image issue.  

She has been on some kind of reality show and tried out for American Idol.  School and being a therapist sound like a plan B hobby.

Replying in the Tori thread.

[fishcakes]

3 hours ago, Giesela said:

Not sure this is allowed but in a different forum someone pointed out that the I in the stacked word challenge was upside down and that this had been grounds for losing in a previous season. 

Oh, that's ... I mean, we were so close to getting rid of her. Argh.

Here's a screencap:

The I is narrower at one end than the other, and she didn't place them the same way. My guess though is that Jeff just didn't notice, but also, I think it would be hard to say which I is upside down there. I guess it would depend on how they were placed on the starting table. In the future, they should either make letters that look the same upside down symmetrical or Jeff should make an announcement that the letters have a top and bottom and they have to place them correctly.

Here, I think Tori should have lost. Ben lost an immunity challenge in the HHH season because he placed a U upside down, so in order to be consistent, I think Tori should not have been called the winner here. I can see the argument on the opposite side, though, that it's not obviously upside down the way a U would be, but I've had enough of Tori, so I'm going with, nope, she's not the true winner.

[bankerchick]

I am no fan of Tori but would not be in favour of disqualifying her win based on that.  It's just an up and down stick; yes, one end is slightly larger than the other but it's pretty hard to notice unless you're looking for it (none of us noticed last week as it wasn't in any of the threads until now) and the players weren't looking at the letters other than to determine they had the correct one.  An upside-down U or T is clearly incorrect, it's not even clear which of these two I's is incorrect.

[fishcakes]

13 minutes ago, bankerchick said:

I am no fan of Tori but would not be in favour of disqualifying her win based on that.  It's just an up and down stick; yes, one end is slightly larger than the other but it's pretty hard to notice unless you're looking for it (none of us noticed last week as it wasn't in any of the threads until now) and the players weren't looking at the letters other than to determine they had the correct one.  An upside-down U or T is clearly incorrect, it's not even clear which of these two I's is incorrect.

I don't disagree. It's a judgment call, and I think had anyone noticed it could have gone the other way, and I would have preferred that, but mostly because I think her reaction would be hilarious.