S02.E08: The Viscount Who Loved Me

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Meow25 said:

.BUT I realized that I HATE Edwina in the series

I loved the Edwina who handled the addled King without disrespecting him or the Queen.
But I must admit, it was almost like that was the Better Twin of the Edwina we saw everywhere else throughout the season.

[magdalene]

8 hours ago, moonorchid said:

im really curious to see how they progress from here. It might do them well to mold this as an ensemble (like they have been) except maybe only bring in some of the books. It seems they’ve already twisted things to where it might not make sense to have an entire book be a season. I think they might be heading that way, cause I definitely want to see more of Anthony and Kate. 

I was wondering this too ever since I read that the remaining seasons may be structured differently. Continue having Kate and Anthony as a strong presence on the show and go back and forth between the other characters. No more entire seasons for one pairing. Personally I don't believe this Colin can carry a whole season by himself.

I want to see Benedict's love story though, he has really grown on me since the first season.

[twoods]

I do agree that they will likely build more on Kate and Anthony in future seasons so we get to see them as a married couple, and possibly with kids. I hope so because their slow burn was delightful but I want more of them since I loved their chemistry. Every time Anthony stared at Kate I literally swooned.  I loved Daphne and Simon the first season but I preferred the slow burn of this season because it felt like there was more on the line with their relationship.
 

Maybe we get to see Edwina and the prince next season as well?  She grew on me, especially after the wedding and had some spunk. I like her budding friendship with the Queen. 
More of Lady Danbury and Violet. I absolutely loved all of their scenes together. 
Looking forward to Penelope and Eloise (hopefully) patching things, and I did like her scenes with the worker (blanking on his name) so maybe we will get more of them next season. I’m a sucker for the rich person falling for the lower class worker storyline. 

[wanderingstar]

Quote

All the almost-kisses between Anthony and Kate, and they share their first actual kiss on that cursed wedding alter where Anthony was about to marry her sister?! Evil.

I actually enjoyed their almost-kisses and longing looks. Took me back to my days of watching daytime soaps, which were always good for the slow-burn, will-they-won't-they romances.

[OlderThanDirt]

In the montage of the fireworks at the Feathington Ball, I wanted a shot of the King looking up and enjoying them from his window.

[loki310]

I felt like there was an episode missing. They declare love and then they’re happily PDAing while playing cricket with the fam? I was so confused I had to check to make sure Netflix hadn’t fast forwarded an episode or something. 

[Kirsty]

Lovely happy ending.

That final episode was packed with far more plot and drama than I expected. I thought Anthony would quickly propose to Kate, and the rest of the episode would be spent in a leisurely way, wrapping things up, with maybe a wedding scene or two. Instead the finale put most of the major characters through the wringer! I'm not complaining; this episode was jammed with good scenes (plus we already had a big wedding this season). But it was surprising. I guess I thought the structure of the season would be more like The Wire or something (because they have soo much in common already 😉), where the action happens in the penultimate episode, and the season finale is just about the fall-out.

So, Anthony suffered for a week thinking Kate would die, he blamed himself, and as soon as he met her he was rejected by her. Kate was unconscious with a head wound for a week, the man she just lost her virginity to didn't bother checking in to see if she lived or died, and when she awoke he apologised for sleeping with her and produced a ring as though to atone for his sins. Benedict found out that his brother bought his place at art school, so he left, feeling like a talentless fraud. Eloise lost her crush and her best friend after a massive blow-up. Penelope's biggest secret was discovered and thrown in her face, she lost her best friend, and Colin ridiculed the idea of courting her... That's a lot of heartbreak in one episode!

The bit at the start with Anthony carrying an unconscious Kate out of the storm and into the house was so tropey! And the Violet/Anthony scene -- when Anthony finds out that Kate has woken up -- was emotional. I loved that Violet didn't have to say anything; Anthony could tell by her face that Kate was awake. Jonathan Bailey is brilliant at crying, and struggling not to cry, and choking back the tears, and failing to finish a sentence because tears are imminent. But isn't it funny how a mother and son can't hug even in private because 1815? Hand-holding is as far as it goes! Anything more would be unseemly, I suppose. Anyhow, Violet really grew on me as a character this season, where last season I just thought she paled in comparison to Portia.

I loved the sickbed proposal scene. So much went unsaid, and you could see how Anthony was bungling it.

Quote

I think he made a very grave mistake by apologizing as Kate had been a quite willing partner.

Yeah, he made it sound like something he regretted and would now have to dutifully pay for. And yet you could also see how crushing it was from his point of view when Kate was first all "Was there something else, my lord?" , as though they were strangers. And when he produced the ring, she more or less told him to put it away. Her body language really shut it down and she couldn't even look at him before she kicked him out. Each one of them said some variation of "It's all my fault" in this episode, taking way too much responsibility for everything, and beating themselves up for failing to control things beyond their control. But their combined misunderstandings made for a wonderful failboat proposal scene.

The Eloise/Penelope fight scene was excellent and a huge surprise to me. I didn't expect Eloise to figure it out. I also found her break-up with Theo pretty touching, as you could see they were both hurt by the way it ended. I wonder if Calam Lynch will be back. And whoever here described Penelope's story as like a villain origin story nailed it.

The Jack Featherington plotline was tied up neatly so that Colin and Mondrich had a good episode as well as Portia.

I thought Benedict was a fool to leave the academy. Sure, he felt like a joke. But if you're already in, why waste a golden opportunity to learn about what you love? The only one he punished by leaving was himself. It was a great example of Anthony's overly controlling behaviour, though.

The second Kate/Anthony proposal scene, in the rose garden, was lovely. They deserved that, with fireworks. And I haven't even mentioned Anthony's scene with his kid brother, or Benedict joining Eloise on the garden swings at night. Or how Edwina got to very nicely tell her sister to get a life a couple of times, and Kate actually confided in and was comforted by her mother. Strong finish, Bridgerton!

Edited April 1, 2022 by Kirsty

[tennisgurl]

My thoughts, before reading all of the comments...

I loved this season, I thought that it was even better than season one, which I also really liked. As much as I liked Daphne/Simon, I thought that Anthony/Kate were even better, I love a slow burn, what can I say. I really loved watching them smolder all over each other and you could really see their connection building, they actually have a ton in common. Both of them have totally devoted themselves to their families, helping their widowed mother and younger siblings, to martyr levels of devotion, and have totally given up on finding any personal happiness. It has made both of them very responsible, which their siblings appreciate, but has also led to their siblings resenting them to an extent for being so controlling, and feeling bad that they had to take on so much. It doesn't hurt that Jonathan Bailey and Simone Ashley are both not only excellent actors who can really sell that high romance dialogue, but are also super beautiful with massive amounts of chemistry. They really do spark in every scene, their chemistry is so hot that I spent half a season fanning myself, and they didn't have sex until the tail end of the season!

We didn't see a lot of Mary, but every scene with her is an absolute killer. I got a bit teary when she told Kate how she never needed to "earn" her place in the family because they weren't biologically related, Mary loved her no matter what, it was just such a great moment, you can tell that Kate really needed that. I am also glad that Edwina and Kate made up, even if it took Kate falling off a horse and getting a head injury to make Edwina realize her sister was more important than still being mad. I hope that the match between Edwina and the Prince goes through, they're both quite sweet, they would probably be a really good match. Plus the horrified expressions on the Cowper's face's at the wedding would be hilarious. 

A lot of nice Bridgerton family moments, I loved Eloise and Benedict back at the swings, bonding over being the family rebels, Anthony talking to Gregory about their father, and Daphne's happy, slightly smug smile seeing Anthony and Kate together, like she's thinking "Oh yeah, I really called it." 

Queen Charlotte saves the day! Very smooth telling everyone that the wedding being called off was on her orders, then basically announcing that everyone better get dancing, saving both families from scandal. She looked as charmed as I did by Anthony and Kate glowing all over each other, she might come off as cold and snarky most of the time, but she has a real romantic side to her, I can imagine that seeing real love like what Kate and Anthony have reminds her of her and George from back before he started falling to his illness. 

Eloise finally finds out the truth about Penelope, and she's not only shocked, but furious. I cant really blame her, Penelope might have dragged Eloise through the dirt to help her, and I do think that she wrote about Eloise to protect her, but almost ruining Daphne last season didn't help anyone, and there is no indication that Daphne was ever anything but nice to her. Its a messy situation, I feel bad that Penelope is so badly treated and ignored by society and her own family that she feels like this is the only way she can strike back or have an outlet, and what she is writing is mostly what everyone knows anyway, but she has still dragged a lot of undeserving people through the mud, including people she cares about. I think what Eloise might be really mad about is that Penelope lied to her though, and that she spent all of this time trying to find Lady Whistledown when she was standing right next to her, she probably feels betrayed that her best friend didn't trust her, and feels like a fool for not catching on to what was happening right under her own nose. Its like Edwina being furious when she found out about the romantic tension between Kate and Anthony, she feels like she was taken for a ride by someone who's supposed to care about her. She also wasn't really wrong about how Eloise talks a big game about wanting more out of life than to be a wife and mother and about the unfairness of their society, but she doesn't really do much except for complain, although her friendship with Theo Sharpe has helped move her more into the direction of broadening her horizons and really taking risks. But at the same time, I wouldn't exactly call Lady Whistledown a feminist icon looking to dismantle their oppressive system. She does call out some really bad behavior by bad people, like the guy last year who left his mistress and child destitute, but she also throws all kinds of shade at people like Daphne, who have never done anything to deserve it. I am sure that they will make up, but they are really going to need to talk.

I hope that Anthony and Kate are still a big part of the show next season, I would love to see more of their married life. So who's next on the to be wed list? Benedict? Colin? Newton? 

[magdalene]

This may sound odd but I wish Bridgerton Mama would find love again. She is too young and vibrant to be a widow for the rest of her life.

[shapeshifter]

29 minutes ago, magdalene said:

This may sound odd but I wish Bridgerton Mama would find love again. She is too young and vibrant to be a widow for the rest of her life.

Well, whenever anyone asked Betty White why she never remarried after Allen Ludden died when she was 59, she would say: "Once you’ve had the best, who needs the rest?"
Violet is close to Betty's age at that time, and she seemed to love and esteem her husband at least as much.

More to the point: How would Violet remarrying impact the family fortune? 
Is that moot now that Anthony is married? 
IDK. 

[MartyQui]

Minor quibble: why was Kate wearing my grandmother’s pettipants in her love scene with Anthony?  The costume decisions for this season have been headscratchers.

[dubbel zout]

56 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

More to the point: How would Violet remarrying impact the family fortune? 

Violet has no legal claim to the family fortune, so it wouldn't affect things aside from having one less person to take care of. 

ETA: I don't know if she'd have a dowry or not.

[Ohiopirate02]

5 minutes ago, MartyQui said:

Minor quibble: why was Kate wearing my grandmother’s pettipants in her love scene with Anthony?  The costume decisions for this season have been headscratchers.

Well, if they were going for historical accuracy she would be wearing linen drawers or pantelettes.  Those were baggy crotchless shorts.  They would not read as sexy to a 21st century eye.  The other historically accurate option is commando which would have been harder to film.

[scarynikki12]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Newton?

Yes! I want to see baby corgis running around.

[PatsyandEddie]

My absolute favourite part of this episode was Kate and Anthony’s dance at the Featherington ball. As their joined hands slowly dropped between their faces until their eyes met, raw emotions jumped off the screen. Kudos to Jonny and Simone for giving us such beauty and passion. 

Edited April 2, 2022 by PatsyandEddie

[Enero]

13 hours ago, MartyQui said:

Minor quibble: why was Kate wearing my grandmother’s pettipants in her love scene with Anthony?  The costume decisions for this season have been headscratchers.

I loved her undergarments even if they were historically inaccurate. Lol. I will say I was shocked to see Kate in the library at Aubrey Hall in nothing more than a nightgown in a house that wasn’t “home” and I’m assuming full of visitors who were there for the Hearts and Flowers Ball. Granted it was in the middle of the night but still who knows whom she could’ve run into while moving about the house and she did of course encounter Anthony.

I also found it strange that she didn’t have any gentlemen callers, except the one guy whom she took the boat ride with. She is stunning. Men should’ve been falling all over themselves to court her. But I’m guessing her age, prickly reputation, and perhaps even her family heritage (her father not being an aristocrat) is why she didn’t get much action on that front.

[chaifan]

I really enjoyed this season so much more than Season 1.  Season 1 I watched mostly because of the buzz, and yeah, Simon is hot.  But I never bought into the grand Daphne/Simon love story.  I think Lady Danbury and the Queen kept me watching through the season.  This season I genuinely liked, and also thought all the "B" plots were interesting. 

What I liked about Season 2 is that the love story (the real one, not contrived one) was centered around two full fledged adults.  I know the actresses who play Daphne and Kate are similar age, but Daphne was 17 or 18 in Season 1 (and looked it), vs. Kate's "six and twenty".  Call me prudish, but I get a little eww when watching steamy sex scenes of teenagers, regardless of how much of an "adult" they were in the time the show is set.  It's just a bit pervy.  Kate and Anthony simmered, smouldered and burned, and it was so so so much sexier than anything between Daphne and Simon. 

I liked the subplot with the Featherington's, and how Cousin Jack ended up being a con man and a cad.  I don't think it's right that Portia is keeping all the "investments", but I understand she has no money and needs it, probably more than any of the "investors".  Here's my question, though... Did Colin actually give Jack money?  Anthony said he took money out of the family account, but I thought Colin told bar owner/boxer guy that he didn't give Jack the money. 

I like that Colin was the one to figure things out with Jack, and I like how he handled it and told Pen before.  I hate how he totally dissed Pen in front of his friends, though.  I will admit I totally forgot about the boxer's story line from Season 1, so the references back to Lord Featherington were lost on me for a while.

Pen & Eloise...  oh, I have no idea how this will play out in Season 3.  I kept expecting Pen to tell Eloise about LW, so I didn't expect Eloise to have trashed Pen's room like she did. 

Season 3 - I haven't read the books, so I don't know what is "supposed" to happen next.  But I would love a Diamond free season (again, marrying off teenagers to the highest bidder is just icky to me), and instead focus on Pen & Eloise, give Eloise greater purpose than finding a husband, show more of Violet and Lady Danbury together, as well as the Queen. 

[Pimming Swool]

I really enjoyed Season 2.  I liked Season 1 as well, but Season 2 is sticking with me a week after finishing it.  I routinely dislike period pieces and romances, but it's so smartly written, well acted, and so beautiful to look at.  The glow coming off the Sharma girls (especially Kate) was so beautiful!

I hope I didn't miss something, but I loved that it left it open whether Kate had a past, or at least was a bit more worldly about men.  To that, I say, good for her.  I don't think it was suggested she was virginal or doing it with Anthony somehow "sullied" her - it seemed her flashbacks may have just been because she was with someone amazing.  I thought that agency suited her perfectly since she's older (ancient, practically!) and smart.

[bijoux]

I think Kate was a virgin simply because she dedicated herself to raising Edwina and thus repaying Mary for her love and sacrifice since the age of 18 onwards. It's not a matter of anything but practicality. But then again, I'm pretty simple so I heard How Deep Is Your Love playing during the sex scene and never doubted that Kate and Anthony sealed the deal. 

[Chaser]

This season has stuck with me a lot more too and I think it’s because of Jonny. You read some regency romance and you think that’s romantic or swoon worthy but you really can’t imagine it in live action without it seeming ridiculous. Jonny nailed it. The conviction to the romance and the smolder. Lordy. *fans self*

[bijoux]

I'm still rewatching. And I find something new every time. Like, I love to see how these families are healing from old traumas, mothers recognizing how their actions when facing a loss affected their children. I can't really blame either Mary or Violet but neither can I ignores how their kids were impacted. I'm not talking only about Kate and Anthony who obviously got the most attention im this regard. The weird dynamics of sibling/parent impacted their younger siblings as well, right down to Gregory.

It feels like people recognizing their mistakes really opens them all to moving forward.

[lemotomato]

2 hours ago, bijoux said:

I think Kate was a virgin simply because she dedicated herself to raising Edwina and thus repaying Mary for her love and sacrifice since the age of 18 onwards. It's not a matter of anything but practicality. But then again, I'm pretty simple so I heard How Deep Is Your Love playing during the sex scene and never doubted that Kate and Anthony sealed the deal. 

I thought so too, but I noticed in the morning after still of Anthony, it looks like he still has his pants on.

 

[Enero]

58 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I thought so too, but I noticed in the morning after still of Anthony, it looks like he still has his pants on.

 

Hmm. So did he just perform cunnilingus on her? Cause that part was pretty obvious. Though he’d not need to take off his shirt and jacket to do that. Lol. Perhaps him still having on his pants and it showing was a minor oversight when filming the morning after scene?

Anyway, I do think they went all the way, considering Anthony’s words when he and Kate spoke about that night. He said that’s not how he wanted it to happen etc. which implied to me that they actual did make love.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I could be wrong, but I went back and rewatched the gazebo scene (on my tiny phone screen), and it looks to me like Anthony’s pants are on the bench behind him. And I wasn’t able to catch a glimpse of them under the blanket, so I’m not sure how that photo exists 😆 Must have come from BTS while filming or something. 

Also, I don’t know if Netflix does this, but I would love to see all of the Kate/Anthony deleted footage please and thank you.

 

[SoapDoc]

25 minutes ago, SonofaBiscuit said:

I could be wrong, but I went back and rewatched the gazebo scene (on my tiny phone screen), and it looks to me like Anthony’s pants are on the bench behind him. And I wasn’t able to catch a glimpse of them under the blanket, so I’m not sure how that photo exists 😆 Must have come from BTS while filming or something. 

Also, I don’t know if Netflix does this, but I would love to see all of the Kate/Anthony deleted footage please and thank you.

 

I agree with that. Also, I rewatched Kate's flashbacks the morning after and in one of them, it looks like Anthony had no pants on (you can see what looks like his naked hip). Also, he might have put his pants back on to sleep.

I have wondered about Kate's past. She didn't seem surprised by anything that occurred beteen her and Anthony. Maybe a little ashamed of her lack of willpower😀 but not unaware of how sex worked.  I don't know if Mary broke sex down in detail like that for Kate. I just didn't think she was a virgin. 

And ironically based on how smitten Anthony is with her, he probably was less concerned about that fact himself. As long as she had the reputation of being a lady, I don't think her being a virgin would mattered either way for him. 

[MartyQui]

On 4/1/2022 at 7:22 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

Well, if they were going for historical accuracy she would be wearing linen drawers or pantelettes.  Those were baggy crotchless shorts.  They would not read as sexy to a 21st century eye.  The other historically accurate option is commando which would have been harder to film.

It would have been so sexy for her to have a chemise and a corset…as a costume person, it just took me out of the scene to have her wearing something so out of the one (her bra/corset thing too)

[katha]

What I most liked about their tryst, whatever happened or didn't happen, is that Anthony is not fazed and caught up in thinking less of her or somehow perceiving that sleeping with him (in whatever form) somehow sullies Kate's character. He proposes because he wants to and because he acknowledges that the mores of their time make it now his responsibility after getting intimate with her, but is otherwise totally unfazed by it all. I'm in the camp that thinks Kate was probably a virgin for purely pragmatic reasons (including the high risk of getting pregnant or contracting any kind of diseases), but knows what's going to happen. That's also why the guilt kicks in afterwards. But it's not a big focus either way and it's not a big deal for Anythony either, which I thought was cool.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, MartyQui said:

It would have been so sexy for her to have a chemise and a corset…as a costume person, it just took me out of the scene to have her wearing something so out of the one (her bra/corset thing too)

I liked the silk 1920s tap pants.  I think they work to show sexy but make it retro.  But, I will admit to loving vintage styles particularly Art Deco.  I'm more of a 1930s bias cut person due to my curves.  I think drawing inspiration from the 1920s works for the Regency period.  Both were times where women wore loose fitting clothes without a defined waist.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

3 hours ago, Enero said:

Hmm. So did he just perform cunnilingus on her? Cause that part was pretty obvious. Though he’d not need to take off his shirt and jacket to do that. Lol. Perhaps him still having on his pants and it showing was a minor oversight when filming the morning after scene?

Anyway, I do think they went all the way, considering Anthony’s words when he and Kate spoke about that night. He said that’s not how he wanted it to happen etc. which implied to me that they actual did make love.

He said he took liberties and in a world where a man and woman standing near each other  unchaperoned can lead to a forced engagement, oral sex would definitely meet the definition of taking liberties. In his view (and society's view), they did enough for him to feel obligated to ask her to marry him. (Plus, he wanted to marry her anyway and was looking for an excuse).

When he said he didn't want it to happen that way, I think he meant he didn't want to be intimate in a way that could lead her to feel dishonored. Arguably, frantically hooking up in a gazebo before they were engaged could make her feel dishonored.

In my viewing, Anthony did have his pants on during the entire thing, so I don't think they had intercourse. But nevertheless, they were sexually intimate in apparently every other way so it doesn't really matter if they went beyond the oral sex.

Edited April 3, 2022 by eleanorofaquitaine

[Roseanna]

18 hours ago, Pimming Swool said:

I hope I didn't miss something, but I loved that it left it open whether Kate had a past, or at least was a bit more worldly about men.  To that, I say, good for her.  I don't think it was suggested she was virginal or doing it with Anthony somehow "sullied" her - it seemed her flashbacks may have just been because she was with someone amazing.  I thought that agency suited her perfectly since she's older (ancient, practically!) and smart.

 

17 hours ago, bijoux said:

I think Kate was a virgin simply because she dedicated herself to raising Edwina and thus repaying Mary for her love and sacrifice since the age of 18 onwards. It's not a matter of anything but practicality. But then again, I'm pretty simple so I heard How Deep Is Your Love playing during the sex scene and never doubted that Kate and Anthony sealed the deal. 

 

12 hours ago, SoapDoc said:

I have wondered about Kate's past. She didn't seem surprised by anything that occurred beteen her and Anthony. Maybe a little ashamed of her lack of willpower😀 but not unaware of how sex worked.  I don't know if Mary broke sex down in detail like that for Kate. I just didn't think she was a virgin. 

And ironically based on how smitten Anthony is with her, he probably was less concerned about that fact himself. As long as she had the reputation of being a lady, I don't think her being a virgin would mattered either way for him. 

I find rather odd to presume that Kate wouldn't have been a virgin as she seemed  not to be interested in men. 

But Kate had lived in India where she had probably seen explicit pictures about sex. Therefore she wasn't dependent on Mary's information (unlike Daphne was on her mom whose behavior now seems all the more odd - perhaps the explanation was simply that the plot demanded Daphne to be an ignoramus).

The main point is that this show doesn't describe reality but fantasy where the first time is always fantastic for a woman if she is with the "right" man.  

As for Anthony not caring whether Kate was a virgin or not - he would have a rare man in that time if it didn't matter to him. But a man can never know it for sure: physical signs aren't sure and women can also fake.  

[anna0852]

1 hour ago, Roseanna said:

But a man can never know it for sure: physical signs aren't sure and women can also fake.  

There are no physical signs as to whether a woman is a virgin or not. You're perpetuating a dangerous myth by insinuating that there are. 

[Roseanna]

2 hours ago, anna0852 said:

There are no physical signs as to whether a woman is a virgin or not. You're perpetuating a dangerous myth by insinuating that there are. 

But that's just what I said!

[ursula]

On 3/30/2022 at 11:32 PM, twoods said:

Maybe we get to see Edwina and the prince next season as well?  She grew on me, especially after the wedding and had some spunk. I like her budding friendship with the Queen. 

I love this. They're both sweet people (who got the losing side of a love triangle) and deserve a happy ending. And I think the show owes Edwina some positive focus since they botched her book character so badly. 

Speaking of which...

On 3/30/2022 at 6:10 PM, Meow25 said:

BUT I realized that I HATE Edwina in the series, but loved her in the book.  In the series she acts like a dimwit.  

I think its the actress, but she was so dippy.  

I mean you literally admitted that Edwina in the books and in the show were written differently, and yet you still end up blaming the actress and not the show writers?

 

22 hours ago, SoapDoc said:

 

I have wondered about Kate's past. She didn't seem surprised by anything that occurred beteen her and Anthony. Maybe a little ashamed of her lack of willpower😀 but not unaware of how sex worked.  I don't know if Mary broke sex down in detail like that for Kate. I just didn't think she was a virgin. 

Well she basically had a nervous break-down and rode out in a storm and fell off her horse. So I don't think she just shrugged off losing her virginity outside wedlock on an impulse. 

That said, I think we're meant to see Daphne, or more precisely Violet Bridgerton as the exception, when it comes to the amount of education mothers gave their daughters about sex. 

 

As for the discussion about how far they went... It's really confusing which is one of the annoying things about the way Kathony was handled in general this season, that this wasn't made clear. On the one hand, it looks like they went all the way. On the other hand, it would have been very odd for Anthony not to at least make sure she wasn't carrying his child before she ran off to India. 

[Enero]

1 hour ago, ursula said:

On the other hand, it would have been very odd for Anthony not to at least make sure she wasn't carrying his child before she ran off to India

Maybe he used the pull out method ala Simon? Though we here in modern times know that’s not fool proof at all. He wouldn’t know. 

That does bring up another thought though how did he manage to bed all those prostitutes with not one getting pregnant? Or perhaps they did and took care of it however one would take care of it in those times? And what about STD? Anthony has been very lucky on both fronts. 

[Ohiopirate02]

5 minutes ago, Enero said:

Maybe he used the pull out method ala Simon? Though we here in modern times know that’s not fool proof at all. He wouldn’t know. 

That does bring up another thought though how did he manage to bed all those prostitutes with not one getting pregnant? Or perhaps they did and took care of it however one would take care of it in those times? And what about STD? Anthony has been very lucky on both fronts. 

All Romance novels operate in a fantasy world where STIs do not exist.  There is also no such thing as an accidental pregnancy, those only happen at the author's whim.  Some Romance heroes do have illegitimate children due to their promiscuity.   It depends on the story they want to write. 

Some Romance authors do create a world a bit closer to us where condoms, testing, and birth control exist.   

[magdalene]

20 minutes ago, Enero said:

Maybe he used the pull out method ala Simon? Though we here in modern times know that’s not fool proof at all. He wouldn’t know. 

That does bring up another thought though how did he manage to bed all those prostitutes with not one getting pregnant? Or perhaps they did and took care of it however one would take care of it in those times? And what about STD? Anthony has been very lucky on both fronts. 

Hopefully Anthony used "French Letters", that's the word for condoms during  those days.  Some of the more sophisticated men did use them and Anthony strikes me as someone who would try to avoid the pox (Syphilis).

[magdalene]

On 4/2/2022 at 7:32 AM, chaifan said:

What I liked about Season 2 is that the love story (the real one, not contrived one) was centered around two full fledged adults.  I know the actresses who play Daphne and Kate are similar age, but Daphne was 17 or 18 in Season 1 (and looked it), vs. Kate's "six and twenty".  Call me prudish, but I get a little eww when watching steamy sex scenes of teenagers, regardless of how much of an "adult" they were in the time the show is set.  It's just a bit pervy.  Kate and Anthony simmered, smouldered and burned, and it was so so so much sexier than anything between Daphne and Simon. 

Yes, that's what bothered me about Simon/Daphne in season 1 - it looked like Simon, a man in his thirties, was having sex with a teenager. Perception wise I found that icky.

[Brn2bwild]

This may be an unpopular take, but I feel a bit sorry for the new Lord Featherington.  When he inherited the land and title, he had a right to think that they would both come with some money.  There's no reason he should have been expected to bring money into the family, and he had no obligation to Portia and the daughters.  He could have had them cast out into the street, but instead he (pretend) paid for the middle daughter's dowry and let them continue to live with him.  While he lied about Cressida's necklace being worth something, the true swindling began with Portia's idea to get the ton to invest in his gem mines.  He was a crook, but he could have been much worse (see, e.g., John Dashwood in Sense and Sensibility). 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Brn2bwild

[Ohiopirate02]

7 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

This may be an unpopular take, but I feel a bit sorry for the new Lord Featherington.  When he inherited the land and title, he had a right to think that they would both come with some money.  There's no reason he should have been expected to bring money into the family, and he had no obligation to Portia and the daughters.  He could have had them cast out into the street, but instead he (pretend) paid for the middle daughter's dowry and let them continue to live with him.  While he lied about Cressida's necklace being worth something, the true swindling began with Portia's idea to get the ton to invest in his gem mines.  He was a crook, but he could have been much worse (see, e.g., John Dashwood in Sense and Sensibility). 

He did have an obligation to Prudence and Penelope.  Their care was technically their father's as the progeny of the Featherington estate.  It would have been one of the many responsibilities the new Lord F. inherited along with the title. This was a time where children were their father's property.  Upon his death, the responsibility for their care until marriage passed to the heir.

 Portia would have had some sort of settlement from when she married.  If she did not, then either her father failed her or her husband squandered that money.  It is also possible that she does have enough money in her marriage settlement for her and her daughters to rent a cottage in the countryside and live there.  I do feel like Portia is the one choosing to stay in London and go into debt instead of moving somewhere more economical.  In Sense and Sensibility, the money the Second Mrs. Dashwood uses to live off of is the little money she brought to her marriage.  When they do move to Barton Cottage it is because they do not want to live under the same roof as Fanny Dashwood.  John is shown to be a less than honorable brother when he and Fanny rationalize his promise to his dying father about caring for his half-sisters.  

[eleanorofaquitaine]

Ultimately I think the question of whether or not Kate and Anthony had intercourse (and the possibility she could have been pregnant) doesn't really matter. Anthony means it when he says he's a gentleman, even if every time he says it, he follows it up with some very ungentleman-like action. Remember he also wanted to talk with Kate after they just kissed, probably because he felt like once that happened, they were heading in a direction that would end in marriage. He didn’t push it because it was just a kiss but definitely after having some intimacy, he knew he was going to feel obliged.

One romance trope I don't love is when the heroine refuses to marry the hero because "he just asked me out of obligation," which they did here with Kate. Like, say they did have sex and Kate was possibly pregnant? Was she really going to take off? That seems unlikely to me given Kate's sense of responsibility but even if there was no possibility, I just feel like that was Kate being a little like Marina - wanting everything she wanted in the way she wanted.

Granted, Anthony should have told her he cared about her when he proposed to her the first time. But I think Anthony was right to call her out for saying she was running away because refusing because she felt he was only asking her out of obligation was lame, IMO.

[Roseanna]

15 hours ago, ursula said:

Well she basically had a nervous break-down and rode out in a storm and fell off her horse. So I don't think she just shrugged off losing her virginity outside wedlock on an impulse. 

 

1 hour ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Granted, Anthony should have told her he cared about her when he proposed to her the first time. But I think Anthony was right to call her out for saying she was running away because refusing because she felt he was only asking her out of obligation was lame, IMO.

Anthony should have told Kate about his love much earlier but at least after they had had sex.

Evidently we are supposed to believe that they didn't talk anything afterwards. If Anthony just started to sleep, it's no wonder that Kate became distressed and went riding in rain.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

Well, I mean, he had just told her she consumes his very being. She was aware he had a powerful attraction to her. I wouldn't describe her as having a nervous breakdown but I think she freaked out a bit because of her own actions and her own feelings of attraction rather than because of his. And that's what led to the fateful accident. 

Edited April 4, 2022 by eleanorofaquitaine

[quazimodo]

2 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

One romance trope I don't love is when the heroine refuses to marry the hero because "he just asked me out of obligation," which they did here with Kate. Like, say they did have sex and Kate was possibly pregnant? Was she really going to take off? That seems unlikely to me given Kate's sense of responsibility but even if there was no possibility, I just feel like that was Kate being a little like Marina - wanting everything she wanted in the way she wanted.

That did feel more plot induced than anything logical. I think the only reason we got that trope was because they needed Kate and Anthony to not get it together before the ball so that they could have the  “ last dance” and get shunned in front of everyone including the Queen.  If they had been engaged beforehand the scandal fallout would have continued and the Queen would likely have been pissed because they ruined ‘her wedding’ but because she saw them and the true love for herself she gave them the seal of approval and made it okay for everyone else to as well. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

48 minutes ago, quazimodo said:

That did feel more plot induced than anything logical. I think the only reason we got that trope was because they needed Kate and Anthony to not get it together before the ball so that they could have the  “ last dance” and get shunned in front of everyone including the Queen.  If they had been engaged beforehand the scandal fallout would have continued and the Queen would likely have been pissed because they ruined ‘her wedding’ but because she saw them and the true love for herself she gave them the seal of approval and made it okay for everyone else to as well. 

I think part of the reason I don't like it as a trope is because it usually feels pretty contrived to me. It can occasionally work but it's usually pretty obviously just an obstacle for plotting purposes. I agree with you that they wanted to bridge to having the waltz in front of the queen lead to the resolution, I just wish they used something a little less obvious. 

[luvmylabs]

While I enjoyed this season I confess that I personally never felt the chemistry between Anthony and Kate...just never saw why they were drawn to each other.  I loved the queen as usual...what a hoot!  The scene with the mad king was so touching and Edwina shone.  My heart aches for Pen...she can do better than Colin.  Eloise is so selfish, in my opinion.  She's more a spoilt brat than a rebel.  Kudos to the Burger ton and Feathering ton moms!  Loved them both.

[Enero]

12 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

This may be an unpopular take, but I feel a bit sorry for the new Lord Featherington.  When he inherited the land and title, he had a right to think that they would both come with some money.  There's no reason he should have been expected to bring money into the family, and he had no obligation to Portia and the daughters.  He could have had them cast out into the street, but instead he (pretend) paid for the middle daughter's dowry and let them continue to live with him.  While he lied about Cressida's necklace being worth something, the true swindling began with Portia's idea to get the ton to invest in his gem mines.  He was a crook, but he could have been much worse (see, e.g., John Dashwood in Sense and Sensibility). 

I'll pull up a chair next to you. Upon re-watching the season I found that I did feel kind of bad for Lord Featherington when Portia kicked him out. She was just as much to blame for mining scheme going south as he was.  After all it was her idea. And though I understand her having no intentions of leaving her daughters behind in London or dragging them to America, a world they don't know, in the middle of the night I don't think the situation would've escalated to that point without her scheming with Lord Featherington. 

[Kirsty]

Compared to season one, this season had way fewer sex scenes, no bodily fluids, and no punching, but they made the best of it. 😉  Season one was a delight, and a romance novel brought to life, but I liked this season even more. The sexual tension, angst, and declarations of passion were first class. I wonder if the show can top this.

I loved last season's Fake Relationship Becomes Real trope, but I also love Enemies to Lovers, which I guess describes this season. And it's very common, particularly in older Regency romance novels, for the hero or rake to fall for the guardian or companion of a young debutante. I know people complained about the love triangle this season, because Edwina wasn't aware of the triangle. And that's a fair criticism. But I find it enormously enjoyable when there's an intended love interest who makes sense on paper, in addition to a distracting, unintended love interest who inspires all the feelings, as there was for Anthony. The clash of the head and the heart is a great story. And it helped that Anthony and Kate both tried to shut it down and keep it secret. What other romance novel tropes did they include that I'm forgetting?

Of Daphne's siblings in 2020, my faves were Anthony and Eloise for the actors' performances. That's still true, but crikey, Jonathan Bailey far exceeded my expectations as leading man. What an expressive actor! And he fully committed. Of course he had a terrific partner in Simone Ashley, but I didn't think she was given as much great material as he was. Which leads me to...

Both Anthony and Kate had issues that kept them apart for most of eight episodes. But the show delved into Anthony's problems with a flashback episode, while Kate didn't get the luxury of flashbacks that would have made her determined martyrdom more understandable, relatable, and sympathetic. Last season Simon had the issues and the flashbacks, where Daphne's only issue was ignorance and inexperience. I think there are a lot of romance novels like that, where the hero has some major hang-up, and it's the heroine's role to figure it out. And I guess that's what the show is working with. But I'd like if the show could flip things around, and give the heroine the hang-ups and character work and flashbacks next season. Or at least share them out a bit more equally. Judging by these two seasons, no matter if the Bridgerton is male or female, the man gets the major character arc.

In spite of their fantastic chemistry, does anyone else think that in real life, people like Kate and Anthony would not make the best match? They're too alike! Both highstrung, stubborn, headstrong, and controlling. Each one would be difficult to live with, and would likely marry someone more easygoing. Or at least that's what I've seen happen in reality. But YMMV.

What was your favourite scene from this season? Mine isn't going to be an original pick, because I loved the Anthony/Kate scene after dinner with the Sheffields, especially Anthony's monologues there. "You are the bane of my existence. And the object of all my desires." etc.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Kirsty
for praising Simone Ashley in such a way that it sounded like an insult!

[Roseanna]

3 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Well, I mean, he had just told her she consumes his very being. She was aware he had a powerful attraction to her. I wouldn't describe her as having a nervous breakdown but I think she freaked out a bit because of her own actions and her own feelings of attraction rather than because of his. And that's what led to the fateful accident. 

What a person says before sex may be just a calculated means to get sex. Sometimes a person thinks to be on love but after sex notices to feel it no more. 

Kate wouldn't have no reason to get nervous breakdown if Anthony had told her afterwards that he loved her and wanted to marry her. 

[janie jones]

On 3/30/2022 at 10:45 AM, RedbirdNelly said:

I realize this is a show and we are supposed to overlook a lot, but this does push the envelope. It's not like they can just run down to the shop or hop in their car, tell mom they are going out to grab a burger and then swing by the shop. The whole carriage thing takes some setting up. It's not grabbing an Uber. 

Which is among the reasons why I was not happy with the "Pen is LW" thing in season 1--it just didn't make sense at all how some teenager would pull all that off. I was willing to just ignore that this season--and at least they showed some of it (her posing as acting on behalf of her mistress) and pulled in a helper--but still hard to take, not to mention El's ability to get anywhere when she wants.

I don't know, the footman (or whatever) who gave Eloise that book toward the end seemed to be Team Theloise, so she might have a fairly easy time getting people to bring her places without telling anyone. Penelope probably pays the driver to keep his mouth shut, but that's now that she has money. Who knows how she got Whistledown off the ground.

 

On 4/2/2022 at 7:32 AM, chaifan said:

I really enjoyed this season so much more than Season 1.  Season 1 I watched mostly because of the buzz, and yeah, Simon is hot.  But I never bought into the grand Daphne/Simon love story.  I think Lady Danbury and the Queen kept me watching through the season.  This season I genuinely liked, and also thought all the "B" plots were interesting. 

What I liked about Season 2 is that the love story (the real one, not contrived one) was centered around two full fledged adults.  I know the actresses who play Daphne and Kate are similar age, but Daphne was 17 or 18 in Season 1 (and looked it), vs. Kate's "six and twenty".  Call me prudish, but I get a little eww when watching steamy sex scenes of teenagers, regardless of how much of an "adult" they were in the time the show is set.  It's just a bit pervy.  Kate and Anthony simmered, smouldered and burned, and it was so so so much sexier than anything between Daphne and Simon.

I feel very similarly. I watched the first episode out of curiosity but stayed for the subplots. Nothing interested me about Daphne and Simon. (Also, I have to get something off my chest: I don't think Rege Jean Page is that great looking. He's handsome, but the guys who play Anthony and Benedict are both better looking, in my opinion.) I'm not interested in romance in general, but Anthony and Kate held my attention.

[bijoux]

On 4/4/2022 at 8:21 PM, Kirsty said:

  What was your favourite scene from this season? Mine isn't going to be an original pick, because I loved the Anthony/Kate scene after dinner with the Sheffields, especially Anthony's monologues there. "You are the bane of my existence. And the object of all my desires." etc.

It's any Kate and Anthony scene if I'm being honest, really. But just because I thought of it first now the hunt scene in which they bicker who is (more) into whom.

But if we're talking outside of them as a couple:

- Anthony's scene with Gregory

- Mary totally being there for Kate and not judging when she could have

- the families with Lady D as an honorary member dancing and we've never seen them happier

- Violet and Lady Danburry losing their shit at the failed wedding

- Penelope losing her shit when Colin takes her hand (I'm not a fan of them on the show, but that was hilarious) Completely this vibe:

- Benedict 'accepting (the academy's) acceptance of him'

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by bijoux