S01.E07: Irresistible Change

[EtheltoTillie]

Here is Park Row today!  I just took these outside my office building on Lower Broadway.  I got a kick out of seeing that view last night.

 

[kristen111]

I still can’t get used to Marian.  That constant smile on her face is annoying.  So are her hats with the fruit on the top.  They could have picked better, but look who her Mother is in real life.

Love Peggy and hope she and the printer get together.

As always, Agnes doesn’t disappoint.  To me, she’s the best.  I hope Ada gets a storyline.

Excited to see Newport next week.

 

 

 

[yellowjacket]

Just dropping by to point out that if you want to "be an architect" you have to study for like 10 years, have a sense of color, space, texture and light, know how to math (including some calculus), be able to draw REALLY well, understand physics, geology and construction material properties, and  work well with clients.  It's the opposite of easy.  Stanford White was a genius and even he had to study as an assistant to HH Richardson for six years. 

[AntFTW]

10 hours ago, RachelKM said:

Me: I genuinely have no idea and at this point hope you don't and this blows up in your stupid, placid face.

[Brian Cronin]

3 minutes ago, kristen111 said:

Love Peggy and hope she and the printer get together.

I believe that they've written themselves into a bit of a corner there, as the printer, T. Thomas Justice, is a real life historical figure, so I doubt they'll go that route, which is a shame because they certainly DO have some excellent chemistry.

 

[OtterMommy]

3 hours ago, AntFTW said:

If Bannister was above board about it, Agnes would have never let it happen. Agnes wouldn’t lend her staff to “new people”, and certainly not to Bertha Russell.

Right, although Agnes would have loaned Bannister out to families she trusted.  What Bannister did was not generally unusual for a butler and, in other situation, would have been fine.  And, yes, if he had been above board about it, Agnes would have said no for the reasons you said.  However, my guess that the bigger sin is that he wasn't honest with Agnes because having trust in your staff was paramount, and I think Agnes rather childish (but amusing) way of handling her anger shows that.  I have a feeling that she would have been upset, although maybe not to the same extent, if Bannister had done the same thing but with a family in Agnes's circle.

Again, I think the writers want us to compose this with Turner, who has shown that she is not worthy of Bertha's trust.  I just don't think the writers did a good job with it.

ETA: I think the other part of Agnes's silent treatment is just that she's dealing with what she considers a great social embarassment after her busting in on the luncheon.  She was acting rashly, which is NOT something that Agnes does, so I think part of her reaction toward Bannister is because she can't face that she herself did something so socially unacceptable.  Or maybe I'm giving the writers too much credit (but not Baranski, because she is the main reason why I'm watching this show and I do think she's the shining star here).

[Roseanna]

4 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Other than maybe Peggy, why would we care for any of these people?

Now we agree!

Well, George is hot, unlike young men in the series.

42 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Larry actually made a good pitch to George about why he should be an architect. George actually seemed impressed, I bet a self made man like him would respect his son wanting to make his own way in the world and create his own legacy.

Larry want to have it both ways: to have his own career and enjoy his father's fortune that somebody else will care for him and his sister.

[sacrebleu]

12 hours ago, ZeeEnnui said:

 

Turner continues to be Weak Sauce O'Brien.

Perfect description!

And Raikes whole " let's get married because NYC is so distracting' reeks of a guy who believes marriage will 'cure' him of his playboy ways. Total red flag.

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by sacrebleu
Typo

[iMonrey]

If that's the last we've seen of Turner then her entire arc ended rather anticlimactically. If not, I have no idea where she would fit in at this point. It's not as if Agnes is going to hire her. Maybe Aurora Fane or Mrs. Chamberlain? 

Quote

I'm proclaiming the show "meh."  It was a good idea that has been poorly executed in too many key areas to  let slide. Casting- poor, character development- poor, writing- poor. The only areas I am seeing done well are costuming and set design. It's a very pretty package that really doesn't contain very much other that people in pretty clothing sitting around inside gorgeous homes.

Most of the attention does indeed seem to be spent on costumes and sets, I'll have to agree. Marian has never been seen in the same outfit twice. There are constant sweeping "reveals" when Bertha comes downstairs in her latest haute couture complete with majestic music. And I sense the season is gearing up for a grand culmination at Gladys's coming out ball so the costumers can outdo themselves in the final. If they put half the effort into the scripts as they do into costuming the show would be much improved.

Quote

I'm starting to feel sorry for Blake Ritson, the actor who plays Oscar. He's been in a villain in a number of different shows, and now he's a villain in this one too. Although type casting is still work, I guess.

Since Ritson is British I'm surprised the show didn't go with David Oakes, the go-to villain of all British TV shows. He actually would have been far more charming in this role too. My main quibble with Ritson is that he simply looks too old for the part.

Edited March 8, 2022 by iMonrey

[dmc]

55 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

Again, I think the writers want us to compose this with Turner, who has shown that she is not worthy of Bertha's trust.  I just don't think the writers did a good job with it.

I don’t think Turner ever had Bertha’s trust. I don’t think Bertha is the kind of person that needs someone to like her to work for her. I think one of the differences between old and new money that the show is showing is servants.  Agnes is hurt because she does trust Bannister. He’s very much betrayed her and she expected him to be loyal.  Bertha does not feel betrayed at all by Turner’s actions. She fires her solely for image protection. But there’s no hurt because Turner should know better to protect her family’s image at all cost.  

I also agree with whoever said the Turner and Bertha are largely the same person. I’ve said this before.  I imagine Bertha pulled a similar maneuver on George back in the day except he was unmarried.  And why I don’t think George was initially interested in her whatsoever, I won’t be shocked if it changes. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by dmc

[Insert Username]

I have a few theories about Turner - none of which are based in anything but what I would do if I was the writer. The first is due to the implication that she knows what is "right" and was hired to help Bertha learn how to properly dress, etc, indicating that she grew up with some money and status. Maybe her father was somehow wronged by the Russells (like lost their money or George destroyed his business) so her family was impoverished, forcing her to go out to work. The second is that she is just genuinely batshit crazy and thinks that she deserves Bertha's life. In that case, maybe we will see her roll up pregnant, claiming it is George's baby.

[MollyB]

14 hours ago, dmc said:

why wasn't Bannister fired?  ....... At the point where your employees are moonlighting across the street...perhaps do a few interviews.  

14 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

Having an English butler really WAS a big deal. 

If he's fired, Bertha will snap him up in a New York minute. Agnes is making sure he doesn't wind up across the street. If he quits, he will be discredited for his moonlighting and Bertha would not want him. 

13 hours ago, ZeeEnnui said:

You know what would make Larry interesting? If he starts working for Stanford White whose Wiki page reads like a Gilded Age TMZ.

As soon as he expressed a desire to be an architect I thought he'd work for SW through George's connection, and then scandal will ensue.  How will Bertha deal with that?  Since it's somewhat down the history road, we may never know.

[sistermagpie]

13 minutes ago, Insert Username said:

I have a few theories about Turner - none of which are based in anything but what I would do if I was the writer. The first is due to the implication that she knows what is "right" and was hired to help Bertha learn how to properly dress, etc, indicating that she grew up with some money and status. Maybe her father was somehow wronged by the Russells (like lost their money or George destroyed his business) so her family was impoverished, forcing her to go out to work. The second is that she is just genuinely batshit crazy and thinks that she deserves Bertha's life. In that case, maybe we will see her roll up pregnant, claiming it is George's baby.

Wouldn't every ladies' maid know what was right? There's a whole class of servants like that, I would think. Same as the butler.

[HappyHanna]

3 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

I’m still curious about Ada’s story. When Agnes married Mr. VR, was she set up in a small household and then moved to the Big House upon his death? Why didn’t Mr. VR try to get her married off? She’s obviously not a simpleton, unless Agnes and Ada pretended that she was so she be deemed not marriage material and thus left alone to her own devices.

I assumed it was because she had no money, and only sort of a name, so she wasn't of much interest to anyone of a status for her to marry. Sort of like a Marian, who in real life would probably end up being a governess since what man other than Raikes would want to marry a penniless orphan?

[ZaldamoWilder]

14 hours ago, dmc said:

Surely there are other English butlers in NY that can walk a dog properly. 

Absolutely so, but Bannister runs her house like clockwork and knows all of her business....oh and don't call me Shirley.  

13 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

Marion should have told Mr. Raikes that if he really loved her, he would insist that she join him at the lighting ceremony or not go at all.

Part of me hopes that "Miss Bingham" was part of a ruse cooked up by Agnes and Aurora Fane to test whether Mr. Raikes would stay faithful to Marion in her absence. 

When she told him she wasn't invited, he preempted by offering to withdraw and she insisted that he go.  

13 hours ago, peridot said:

I loved the first scene between Agnes and Ada, where Ada shocked Agnes with her knowledge of seedy characters.

Bertha is stone cold, asking Marian if Raikes was available and then turning around and telling her that she wasn't invited.  Even though she's cold-hearted and single-minded, I liked seeing her glee when George tipped his hat to her at the balcony. 

I didn't understand how people could have picnics in carriages since I thinking of the full-coverage ones, but the ones they used were nice.  It was an early form of tailgating!

I just don't understand the situation between Raikes and Marian.  Like someone said above, why isn't Marian questioning his quiz-like knowledge of the wealthy?

Turner should have been thrown out on her ass a long time ago, I laughed at Church telling her to go back into her cave.

You've so neatly encapsulated all the reasons I can't quit her.   A stealth, icy bitch with undisguised ambition, who, despite herself, still kisses her man as though she loves him and don't give a shit who knows it.  As a bonus, baby when she silent but deadly lets 'em have it, I recline.   

Damb, tough crowd lol!  Carmen Miranda ass hats, no verbal admission of love and not a solid dollar to her name, not even the ole raggedy borrwed train ticket she came home on and ya'll still don't think he want her just for her huh?   m'k.   I hope ya'll are wrong, I like their big head, goof head ass love.

13 hours ago, Adgirl said:

I think she's starting to think he's a rake as Aunt Agnes predicted. I'm still not sure about him though.

This episode was so boring. I can't believe they spent so much money on costumes and scenery but couldn't pay Fellowes enough to let someone else take a pass at the script.

Me:  

12 hours ago, RachelKM said:

Jesus Christ. I cannot care about Marian and her glazed, vacant smiles. And I don't care if she's happy (assuming emotions are things she has).  But Holy Fuck! Does she even care if she's in love? 

My understanding from her conversation last week with Mrs. Chamberlain was that Marian was flattered and liked Raikes but she wanted to see if it was more if she spent time with him. Then one  conversation in which Raikes is reciting gossip and she's stealing kisses next to the Monets.  

Raikes: Do you love me?

Marian: What do you think?

Me: I genuinely have no idea and at this point hope you don't and this blows up in your stupid, placid face.

Gah! Even her flirting is dumb and boring.

Also, did I misunderstand or was Raikes arguing that they should marry now before something ... distracted them?  I couldn't follow his words but it didn't sound like he was saying they'd be torn apart but rather than they'd drift apart. If so, it was an odd but surprisingly selfware statement if the final scene with the other woman is any indication... but not a great argument for commitment...

Ada and Agnes's exchange about what Ada shouldn't know was fun.  As was watching Turner get sent packing.  Sure, I know we're not done with her poison. But at least she isn't able to actively sacrifice Gladys to it. 

Side note, George adores his daughter and wants her to marry for love and be happy.  Can you imagine his rage if he learned Turner was helping a fortune hunter who's made it plain he doesn't have any legit feelings for Gladys? 

Good for Larry making a strong and logical case for why she should not be made to follow his father footsteps or into his shoes that he neither could nor would want to fill.

Yup.  I can't wait, either.

11 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I agree that although he first claimed to have gotten an access to the society in order to become accepted by Marian's aunts, he now seems to enjoy himself too much.

Yet, are these shallow people really such that a man of a good character would want to socialize with? On the other hand, the same concerns Fellowes, too.     

Ok.  But the guy is single.  What else is there for a 27ish? year old man to do on the weekends or after work?   He's only gone read so many papers and go on so many walks.  If he wasn't a stand-in companion for thirsty girls he's feigning interest in, he'd have zero hobbies 😁

7 hours ago, Roseanna said:

She is a widow, so bright colors are out. Maybe it also tells that she isn't interested in clothes as she is in art?

 

That.

What would Marian be sacrificing? She has no money nor a job to earn a living and that shallow society isn't worth anything. And Agnes said to Ada that she would abandon Marian. 

I don't mean that Marian should marry Raikes. The whole plot is trivial.

But almost all in this show is trivial. I guess we are supposed be anxious whether Mr Russell will go to jail. I think that that letter (save money and not to care of safety) is according his character as well as that of Robber Barons generally. But because we have never seen the worker (nor the dead bodies of the crash in the earlier episode), Fellowes have robbed us a chance to see the affair objectively. Instead, while Mr Russell is shown to be a ruthless businessman, he has given a saving grace: he is clever and charming and loves his wife and children. 

This is why *he's interested in her for the come up* is a hard sell for me.   Agnes told Ada that that's what she wants them to think.   I don't know how she don't know she might've said that to the wrong one, Ada is dreamy as hell about love

4 hours ago, MissLucas said:

The scene between Larry and his father was very well written and acted - probably my favorite of this episode together with the last scene when they lights went on.

Despite her desperate and futile attempts to seduce George I find Turner an intriguing character. She has spotted the fault lines in the Russell marriage that nobody else has noticed - well, George seems to slowly recognize them too. I'm sure we'll see Turner again and I wonder how they are going to pull that off. Since they made such a big deal of her getting good recommendations she'll probably resurface as someone else's lady's maid. 

I wonder how Raikes managed to get access to all those supposedly exclusive circles. He does not have the right name nor money - does he have great lawyering skills? Or is his charming his way into all those luncheons and dinners another hint that he's a con man?

Still no idea what Marian wants or thinks. She had one good line when she wondered how some people's missteps get forgiven and others were kept being ostracized. Other than that she remained her boring self. 

Agnes being outraged by Ada's seedy knowledge was great. I also loved the scene at the dressmaker's, of course Agnes does not give into new-fangled fashion fads like smaller bustles!

My favorite scene too.  

Agnes:  make it bigger

Dressmaker:   But, Mrs. VanRijn, bustles are getting smaller now

'damo:  gurrrrl you boutta get whirled on.  She said what she said! 

3 hours ago, ChlcGal said:

I don't know.  She should have been tickled with an Old New York, only son, only heir, hanging with Carrie Astor and Mrs Fish in Newport Oscar.  But she said she wanted "better"

She don't like him though.  She also wouldn'tve forgotten that he scooted right out that door when it looked like George might lose his fortune.

1 hour ago, Tango64 said:

With all the period appropriate emphasis on formality, class distinctions, and things that are "just not done," it seemed false the way Turner walked into Russell's bedroom while he was in bed and he had only a very mild reaction. A fired female servant enters his bedroom uninvited and he just has a conversation with her? Allows her to come stand at his bedside and finger his bedding?

I mean, even if we are to think he has some interest in her, he'd still be concerned about the impropriety of it all if she were seen entering his bedroom. And if not, he should be outraged at the brazen trespass to his private quarters.

I also commented earlier that it rang false when he let her linger in his bed and had a calm conversation with her the first time she trespassed. So I guess they're at least consistent about that.

 

The Beavis in me can't stop belly-jiggliing. Bwahasaaaaa!! 

1 hour ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Here is Park Row today!  I just took these outside my office building on Lower Broadway.  I got a kick out of seeing that view last night.

 

Heyyyy neighbor.  wtc checking in.   I loved that scene.   We had Sandy, I am not underwhelmed by a power grid lol.  Listen, I've heard grown people who were staring at the Empire State as the colored lights came on say "ahhhh".    

34 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

If that's the last we've seen of Turner then her entire arc ended rather anticlimactically. If not, I have no idea where she would fit in at this point. It's not as if Agnes is going to hire her. Maybe Aurora Fane or Mrs. Chamberlain? 

Most of the attention does indeed seem to be spent on costumes and sets, I'll have to agree. Marian has never been seen in the same outfit twice. There are constant sweeping "reveals" when Bertha comes downstairs in her latest haute couture complete with majestic music. And I sense the season is gearing up for a grand culmination at Gladys's coming out ball so the costumers can outdo themselves in the final. If they put half the effort into the scripts as they do into costuming the show would be much improved.

Since Ritson is British I'm surprised the show didn't go with David Oakes, the go-to villain of all British TV shows. He actually would have been far more charming in this role too. My main quibble with Ritson is that he simply looks too old for the part.

What if, just IF, Agnes is petty enough to hire Turner to replace that shitheel, Armstrong?  How bout if she believes it would annoy Bertha to have her cast-off be Van Rhijn employee?  

Yeah no offense to this dude in real life, but isn't Gladys supposed to be in her early 20s?  I wouldn't balk to find out that he's (a hard) 45.   Actually considering that Agnes is supposed to be *elderly* what is his onscreen age meant to be?

[JenE4]

I think I missed some key dialogue. How was this Mr Russell’s Edison event? Was that his building the first to have electricity, or did he fund it or something? The way Mrs Russell was going on about her carriage picnic, it all seemed very exclusive and that she came up with the idea. But there were hundreds of people their with their own carriage picnics, so what was stopping Marian from just showing up there in her own carriage to watch? Even Peggy seemed like she snagged some exclusive invite, but they seemed to be in the segregated section that also had a hundred people milling about—so it seemed like anyone could just show up. Doubtful the rest of the people in the crowd had some type of “press pass.” It was just outside. 🤷‍♀️

[chitowngirl]

26 minutes ago, HappyHanna said:

I assumed it was because she had no money, and only sort of a name, so she wasn't of much interest to anyone of a status for her to marry. Sort of like a Marian, who in real life would probably end up being a governess since what man other than Raikes would want to marry a penniless orphan?

Building on that-surely there was an “Oscar” or a widower with children that would see Ada as an unassuming, well-bred, wife/mother to his children. I just wish they’d give us the story! Maybe season 2, because with only 2 episodes left, it deserves more of an offhand mention.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

3 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

I'm starting to feel sorry for Blake Ritson, the actor who plays Oscar. He's been in a villain in a number of different shows, and now he's a villain in this one too. Although type casting is still work, I guess.

Is he, though? I don't think he quite is. Sure, he's a bit of a schemer but unlike his partner-in-crime, Miss Turner, he isn't intent on hurting anyone, just making a bad situation better for him (and his actual partner).

Granted, it would mean that Gladys would be married to someone who just wants her money... but that is likely to happen anyway. At least Oscar seems to like her as a person, even if he isn't attracted to her.

2 hours ago, Roseanna said:

If so, he shoudn't be. His fate is actually quite tragic, as he can't live openly such as he is. 

He is, because even people who have tragic circumstances can, you know, have fun, experience joy and laughter, and be defined by more than just their traumas. Oscar certainly is experiencing tragedy in his life because he is gay and cannot live life in the open. But much like Peggy experiences racism and can still be an entertaining character, Oscar can be multi-faceted and complex.

I do wish we could see a little more of both Oscar and John wrestling with the idea that they cannot be together because of societal strictures. But I am okay with seeing Oscar as a character that is witty and complicated.

YMMV.

[kristen111]

15 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

The show still isn't clicking for me. Seven episodes in and it still feels like a mismatch of scenes that never quite gel. Seven episodes into Downton and I felt like we were privy to a whole world with well-rounded characters and drama. Did anything really happen in this episode or tell us something that we didn't already kind of know?

As long as I'm bitching, why is the acting so flat? Marion is just a black hole of charisma with her monotone delivery. I keep thinking what a better actress like, for instance, Emma Stone could do with the character of Marion.

The last scene with Edison was good. There, I said at least one nice thing.

IMO Downtown had it all over this show.  It’s too much of a mish mash.  So many characters.  Too much going on at once.  I love the gowns and scenery tho.  Plus only a few characters.  Agnes blows all of them away with her great acting.  Ada has no storyline yet, and Marian is not an actress IMO.  She’s just there smiling.  No depth yet.  Sorry Meryl.

 

[LegalParrot81]

1 hour ago, Insert Username said:

I have a few theories about Turner - none of which are based in anything but what I would do if I was the writer. The first is due to the implication that she knows what is "right" and was hired to help Bertha learn how to properly dress, etc, indicating that she grew up with some money and status. Maybe her father was somehow wronged by the Russells (like lost their money or George destroyed his business) so her family was impoverished, forcing her to go out to work. The second is that she is just genuinely batshit crazy and thinks that she deserves Bertha's life. In that case, maybe we will see her roll up pregnant, claiming it is George's baby.

Turner had previously worked for a woman who was "old money", until she died.  I think that may have been the reason Bertha hired her.  Turner knows the ropes, but it's clear there's an intense jealousy and honestly, I think it's as simple as Bertha has what Turner wants and Turner believes she deserves Bertha's life.

[Roseanna]

1 hour ago, dmc said:

I imagine Bertha pulled a similar maneuver on George back in the day except he was unmarried.  And why I don’t think George was initially interested in her whatsoever, I won’t be shocked if it changes. 

I doubt that Bertha would have been dumb enough to make direct initiatives like Turned did. She sure made George think that it was he who was the hunter.

43 minutes ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

 

Ok.  But the guy is single.  What else is there for a 27ish? year old man to do on the weekends or after work?   He's only gone read so many papers and go on so many walks.  If he wasn't a stand-in companion for thirsty girls he's feigning interest in, he'd have zero hobbies 

 

I am sure there are thousands more interesting girls and guys in NYC. The so called Society is simply boring.

 

[LydiaMoon1]

13 hours ago, nb360 said:

This episode needed more of Miss Scott.

For real. It surprised me to see Mr. Fortune put his arm around Peggy's waist at the lighting. When did they get close enough for that to happen? Oh, that's right. I wouldn't know because Peggy's storyline is almost entirely off-screen. God forbid we take a break from bland, boring Marion, the thoroughly unpleasant Miss Turner, and Bertha The Relentless long enough to give Peggy some screen time.

And could they have made Turner's firing any duller? When she was in George's bedroom, I just knew that Bertha was going to walk in an give me some long-awaited drama. Instead I got nothing. *sigh*

I loved Agnes and Ada's conversation at the beginning and Agnes being deliciously petty to Bannister and the whole Edison sequence at the end. The final scenes of the episode were the best by far. LOVED the carriage picnics and the lighting of the building. What a marvel that must have been for people during that time. I would have even loved to have seen Peggy interviews of the people in the crowd sprinkled in here and there to give us more of a feeling of time and place.  They could have ditched all that stuff in the middle.

Which brings me to my biggest beef with this show. They linger on everything that I find dull and barely give any attention to the parts I find interesting. It's a problem.

 

 

[izabella]

2 hours ago, dmc said:

I don’t think Turner ever had Bertha’s trust. I don’t think Bertha is the kind of person that needs someone to like her to work for her. I think one of the differences between old and new money that the show is showing is servants.  Agnes is hurt because she does trust Bannister. He’s very much betrayed her and she expected him to be loyal.  Bertha does not feel betrayed at all by Turner’s actions. She fires her solely for image protection. But there’s no hurt because Turner should know better to protect her family’s image at all cost. 

I didn't think she fired Turner due to image.  She saw Turner standing close to Larry, chatting intimately in the hallway, and then saw her put her hand on Larry's arm or chest, can't remember which.  And that's after questioning Marian on why she should fire Turner just because she put her hand on a man's arm in the street.  Bertha did not want Turner anywhere near her darling son.

1 hour ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

What if, just IF, Agnes is petty enough to hire Turner to replace that shitheel, Armstrong?  How bout if she believes it would annoy Bertha to have her cast-off be Van Rhijn employee?  

Agnes would never do that.  The reason she demanded that Bertha fire Turner is because Turner was seen placing her hand on Oskar, and Agnes thought he was having sex with her.  The last thing Agnes would do is bring her into her house.

Edited March 8, 2022 by izabella

[buckboard]

3 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

I believe that they've written themselves into a bit of a corner there, as the printer, T. Thomas Justice, is a real life historical figure, so I doubt they'll go that route, which is a shame because they certainly DO have some excellent chemistry.

 

Exactly.  By the time the newspaperman T. Thomas Fortune and Peggy met, Fortune in real life was married.

[rollacoaster]

8 hours ago, Haleth said:

Shoot, I forgot to look for Carrie Coons' pregnant belly.

  

17 hours ago, Melina22 said:

I can't focus on Bertha's gowns because I'm distracted by the various ways they're hiding her pregnancy. 

WHUT?

Now I gotta go back and look for that, lol!

This episode has so many great lines, but my fave was Agnes' instruction to Peggy to write a thank you note to Bertha "without a hint of warmth."

Do you, Agnes. Don't EVER change. 

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by rollacoaster

[Roseanna]

12 minutes ago, izabella said:

I didn't think she fired Turner due to image.  She saw Turner standing close to Larry, chatting intimately in the hallway, and then saw her put her hand on Larry's arm or chest, can't remember which.  And that's after questioning Marian on why she should fire Turner just because she put her hand on a man's arm in the street.  Bertha did not want Turner anywhere near her darling son.

Yes. Bertha believed that the man Turner had a relationship with was Larry. 

That makes me wonder: maybe Bertha, instead of being grateful about the warning, was so embarrassed that Agnes and Marian knew that her son hadn't behaved properly that she didn't invite Marian to the carriage.  

In any case, the case shows that touching was considered a sign of intimacy. 

[ZaldamoWilder]

36 minutes ago, izabella said:

I didn't think she fired Turner due to image.  She saw Turner standing close to Larry, chatting intimately in the hallway, and then saw her put her hand on Larry's arm or chest, can't remember which.  And that's after questioning Marian on why she should fire Turner just because she put her hand on a man's arm in the street.  Bertha did not want Turner anywhere near her darling son.

Agnes would never do that.  The reason she demanded that Bertha fire Turner is because Turner was seen placing her hand on Oskar, and Agnes thought he was having sex with her.  The last thing Agnes would do is bring her into her house.

 

a girl can dream 

[rollacoaster]

2 hours ago, MollyB said:

18 hours ago, dmc said:

why wasn't Bannister fired?  ....... At the point where your employees are moonlighting across the street...perhaps do a few interviews.  

17 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

Having an English butler really WAS a big deal. 

If he's fired, Bertha will snap him up in a New York minute. Agnes is making sure he doesn't wind up across the street.

I absolutely believe that Agnes is just this petty. She's definitely mad at Bannister and feels betrayed, but NO WAY is she gonna let him go so that Bertha can snatch him up. 

[sistermagpie]

19 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

That makes me wonder: maybe Bertha, instead of being grateful about the warning, was so embarrassed that Agnes and Marian knew that her son hadn't behaved properly that she didn't invite Marian to the carriage.  

 

I think it happened the other way around. When Marian told her about the street-touching Bertha assumed (correctly) she'd touched Oscar. Iirc, that was the same scene where she told Marian she couldn't fit her into the carriage.

[dmc]

38 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Yes. Bertha believed that the man Turner had a relationship with was Larry. 

That makes me wonder: maybe Bertha, instead of being grateful about the warning, was so embarrassed that Agnes and Marian knew that her son hadn't behaved properly that she didn't invite Marian to the carriage.  

In any case, the case shows that touching was considered a sign of intimacy. 

Right Larry having an affair with Turner affects Bertha’s image and society entry 

3 hours ago, Insert Username said:

I have a few theories about Turner - none of which are based in anything but what I would do if I was the writer. The first is due to the implication that she knows what is "right" and was hired to help Bertha learn how to properly dress, etc, indicating that she grew up with some money and status. Maybe her father was somehow wronged by the Russells (like lost their money or George destroyed his business) so her family was impoverished, forcing her to go out to work. The second is that she is just genuinely batshit crazy and thinks that she deserves Bertha's life. In that case, maybe we will see her roll up pregnant, claiming it is George's baby.

I feel like this is a better show than the writers came up with 

[Enigma X]

I am not saying the actor who plays Marian should win any awards but am of the opinion that she is not even close to being the worst offender when it comes to acting on this show.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

29 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I think it happened the other way around. When Marian told her about the street-touching Bertha assumed (correctly) she'd touched Oscar. Iirc, that was the same scene where she told Marian she couldn't fit her into the carriage.

Yes, that's right. Marian delivered her message to Bertha, they talked about it a bit and then Bertha changed the subject to Raikes and the carriage. Marian's exclusion had nothing to do with Bertha suspecting Turner was going after Larry.

Bertha rightly guessed that Turner was with Oscar. Agnes would have no reason to give Bertha the head's up about Larry, and certainly wouldn't ask for Turner to be fired because of Larry. 

I think that Bertha seeing Turner with Larry, after receiving the information that Turner had been seen with a man made Bertha recognize that Turner is a little too much familiar with men (to the way of thinking of the era), which could jeopardize Bertha's ongoing quest to take over the world. Of course, at the end of the day, Bertha and Turner are similar in that they are trying to better their station but Turner was a little too forward and got caught.

Edited March 8, 2022 by eleanorofaquitaine

[Carolina Girl]

14 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Yes, but one can understand Marian - she is simply bored. 

She seems to be carrier of this dreaded condition since she manages to infect the audience with it as well.....did you catch her attempts at a "withering glance" at Aunt Agnes from time to time in the episode.  I was like "OH PULEEEEZE!!"

Oh and as for firing Bannister - I think he's still employed because Agnes knows that if she did sack him, Mrs. Russell would no doubt hire him immediately and kick Church to the curb.  And Agnes knows servants LOVE to gossip - she wouldn't want Bannister over there going non-stop about the Van Rijans to the Housekeeper.  

[kristen111]

52 minutes ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

 

a girl can dream 

Talking about all that, what’s with Turner going into George’s bedroom?  What is her purpose and why?  Why would he want her?  Isn’t Bertha enough?  Why would he be interested in a maid?

 

 

 

[hoodooznoodooz]

I love how they cut from the dress design and fitting to the next scene, but we hear Edna saying, “I don’t like it.”

[dmc]

Also as much as I don’t like Bertha I don’t think she was being mean to Marian when she said she didn’t have any room in her carriage.  She was just being direct.  

[Carolina Girl]

8 hours ago, quangtran said:

I like Aurora as well, but part of me thinks she's still somewhat angry at the Russell and just does a better job at hiding it than Anne Morris.

Aurora's championing of Bertha to save her and her husband from ruin seems to be causing her to take a hit socially.  Remember the Board Meeting last week?  It wasn't Aurora that put her over, it was Clara Barton.  The rest of the women still 0wanted nothing to do with Bertha.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

3 minutes ago, dmc said:

Also as much as I don’t like Bertha I don’t think she was being mean to Marian when she said she didn’t have any room in her carriage.  She was just being direct.  

I agree with this. She was making it clear she wasn't giving Marian the cut direct. It was an issue of logistics, and she was even halfway apologetic about it (in her demeanor at least). 

To be fair,  Bertha wasn't even mean in firing Turner. 

[kristen111]

1 hour ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

For real. It surprised me to see Mr. Fortune put his arm around Peggy's waist at the lighting. When did they get close enough for that to happen? Oh, that's right. I wouldn't know because Peggy's storyline is almost entirely off-screen. God forbid we take a break from bland, boring Marion, the thoroughly unpleasant Miss Turner, and Bertha The Relentless long enough to give Peggy some screen time.

And could they have made Turner's firing any duller? When she was in George's bedroom, I just knew that Bertha was going to walk in an give me some long-awaited drama. Instead I got nothing. *sigh*

I loved Agnes and Ada's conversation at the beginning and Agnes being deliciously petty to Bannister and the whole Edison sequence at the end. The final scenes of the episode were the best by far. LOVED the carriage picnics and the lighting of the building. What a marvel that must have been for people during that time. I would have even loved to have seen Peggy interviews of the people in the crowd sprinkled in here and there to give us more of a feeling of time and place.  They could have ditched all that stuff in the middle.

Which brings me to my biggest beef with this show. They linger on everything that I find dull and barely give any attention to the parts I find interesting. It's a problem.

 

 

Yes.  I was waiting to see Peggy interview the people on the street and hear what they had to say.  She had her book and pen in hand, then nothing.  Why have her go at all then?  Unless they’ll show Agnes and Ada reading the morning papers and comment on the ceremony.  Pftt

[dmc]

6 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I agree with this. She was making it clear she wasn't giving Marian the cut direct. It was an issue of logistics, and she was even halfway apologetic about it (in her demeanor at least). 

To be fair,  Bertha wasn't even mean in firing Turner. 

Agreed she is a very direct way of speaking.  I think it can be offputting but I don’t think it’s mean-spirited.  She really just was saying she didn’t have the space.  And I believe her when she said I would rather take you to Marian.  I think she likes Marian.  

[hoodooznoodooz]

Staff had so much more to do back then. Did many have to detach the horses and move them far away so that these special people wouldn’t smell them while eating?

[AntFTW]

14 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

Aurora's championing of Bertha to save her and her husband from ruin seems to be causing her to take a hit socially.  Remember the Board Meeting last week?  It wasn't Aurora that put her over, it was Clara Barton.  The rest of the women still 0wanted nothing to do with Bertha.

I don't think that is particularly demonstrating that Aurora is taking a hit. I see it as more of a continuation of Aurora not having much influence in the first place or of Aurora's passive personality... not sure which one or maybe it's a combination of both.

Aurora can get Bertha in the door but Aurora can't really change minds. She's passive as Aurora seemed to always take a backseat to Anne Morris. This pair, Aurora and Anne, appeared to be the closest friends. They are always together and planning events together. Anne Morris always took the helm, and Aurora just followed along, even when it didn't make much sense. A perfect example of that Anne ignoring Aurora's preference of using Bertha's freely offered "all expenses paid" ballroom over paying a hotel to use their space for their charity event.

These people will, for the most part, still be resistant to Bertha no matter who is introducing her... unless you're "the Mrs. Astor."

Edited March 8, 2022 by AntFTW

[Snazzy Daisy]

TGA gets me excited over little things. Last week, it was Agnes crossing the street and this week over lighting the lights.

Now I want more interesting romances, more multidimensional plots and characters!

Two magical moments of that night…💥

[kristen111]

2 hours ago, rollacoaster said:

  

WHUT?

Now I gotta go back and look for that, lol!

This episode has so many great lines, but my fave was Agnes' instruction to Peggy to write a thank you note to Bertha "without a hint of warmth."

Do you, Agnes. Don't EVER change. 

 

In the scene on the street with the Red Cross woman, Bertha in her dark burnt Orange/ brown garb was eight months pregnant.  You couldn’t even tell.

[Kirsty]

Yeah, that was a cute moment when George, on stage, lifted his hat to Bertha below in the carriage. She looked thrilled. Bertha is growing on me.

And the spectacle of the building lighting up with the awed crowd watching was probably the highlight of the show so far.

But Marian/Raikes is such a drag. Am I supposed to think Marian loves him now? She barely knows him. It's like her aunt is being unfair to Raikes so Marian wants to give him a fair shot. She'll go almost to the altar for the sake of fairness. We all know Aunt Baranski will be proved right about this guy, and the show is dragging it out forever. I'd like Marian to at least keep getting scenes with Larry the wannabe architect while we wait for the other Raikes shoe to drop, so to speak.

If Downton Abbey is anything to go by, then Turner isn't going anywhere.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Kirsty

[CarpeFelis]

20 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

The Newsies reject footman is my new favorite character. Like when he mugged for the camera when Bannister said that revenge was a dish best served cold. I adore his super non-affected way of speaking. 

I also can’t help noticing, since I grew up near NYC, that he seems to be the only person on the show with a New York accent!

[Ceindreadh]

10 hours ago, ChlcGal said:

2.  Oscar.  This is an unpopular opinion but I think Oscar would be a good match for Gladys.  Hear me out!  Yes, he's gay and will continue to be involved with men but I think he would be kind to her and encourage her to find her own diversions.  There's no way that Gladys will be allowed to marry for love.  At least she can be with someone who would care about her as a friend and gain her her freedom from Bertha.

Go ahead - toss some tomatoes at me 🙂

I'm of the same opinion.  Oscar said in an early episode that Gladys seemed nice, which was important, and that he thought they could be happy.  Not just that he would be happy, but they would. 

And given the era they're living in, if Gladys isn't going to be allowed to marry for love, she could do worse than be paired up with a man who isn't going to be interested in her sexually. 

[sistermagpie]

11 minutes ago, Ceindreadh said:

I'm of the same opinion.  Oscar said in an early episode that Gladys seemed nice, which was important, and that he thought they could be happy.  Not just that he would be happy, but they would. 

And given the era they're living in, if Gladys isn't going to be allowed to marry for love, she could do worse than be paired up with a man who isn't going to be interested in her sexually. 

Also, if Alice really is supposed to be 17 now, her personality hasn't had a chance to really come out. She's not going to be naive forever. They could wind up being good friends--but of course, if Alice *thinks* she's marrying for love, that probably won't happen, because he's taking that from her.

[CarpeFelis]

13 hours ago, Roseanna said:

There has been two quarrels between George and Bertha because she has been insensitive, putting her social schemes above George's business success although the former is entirely dependent on the latter, not seeming to realize that the former can be postponed, the latter can't.  

Yet it's hard to believe that George could be so stupid that he would believe that there is any truth in Turners's words. He must know that the devotion she promises to give him would last as long he would pay for it.

For all her faults, Bertha is honest with her husband - her selfishness isn't pretty but at least she doesn't simulate anything. And she supported him when he he needed it most.  

I was surprised that George didn’t reply to Turner that she and her “devotion” would bore him senseless.

Does anyone else think “Edgar Allan Poe” every time Oscar appears?

[NeenerNeener]

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Since Ritson is British I'm surprised the show didn't go with David Oakes, the go-to villain of all British TV shows. He actually would have been far more charming in this role too. My main quibble with Ritson is that he simply looks too old for the part.

Oakes is in a Vikings spin off and may not have been available, so they had to make do with the 1st alternate British villain.