S04.E01: Rumble on the Wonder Wheel

[Pallas]

Midge returns with a new game plan after getting kicked off Shy Baldwin's tour. Joel is too successful for his own good. Susie finds a creative way to get the cash she needs. 

[Keywestclubkid]

A set back of being kicked off a tour were she put the headliners life in danger .. I'm confused at who she is angry at about this .

[shapeshifter]

So glad this show is back. 
Feels like home and feels like family.

[Aulty]

My favourite line was from the opening sequence, about taking revenge: I will introduce your daughter to a poet 😅
I also enjoyed the ensemble scenes on Coney island.

Otherwise, I feel like I am still trapped in one of the earlier seasons. I hope they can give Midge a nudge into a slightly different direction and make Suzie work towards being a proper manager, with a proper roster.

[desertflower]

I thought this episode was ok but not great. I loved Abe dealing with the kids and getting grumpy at Coney Island. He really reminded me of Monk in those scenes. I did think the Ferris wheel bit went on a little long. I would’ve been really annoyed if I was riding it and had to listen to all those people yelling. Lol!

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, desertflower said:

I loved Abe dealing with the kids and getting grumpy at Coney Island. He really reminded me of Monk in those scenes.

I was a little concerned that Tony Shaloub was just channeling Monk and not Abe. Maybe because I've watched Monk so many times it bothered me more than it should have. I mean, if there are qualities in the character of Monk that fit with the character of Abe, why not use them? Because it will bother me? Probably not a good reason to not do something that works and fits.

 

2 hours ago, desertflower said:

I did think the Ferris wheel bit went on a little long. I would’ve been really annoyed if I was riding it and had to listen to all those people yelling. Lol!

Heh. I loved the Ferris Wheel bit. I think it needed to be a little too long for the right effect.
Too bad my ex didn't know how to argue like that. Maybe we would've stayed married?
It's all about injecting absurdist humor into the argument without expecting laughter, just one-upmanship with the wit. The wittiest argument gets the last word, but it's not really about winning.

[Carolina Girl]

Frankly, I'm curious how much money Joel gave to Susie to give to Midge.  

Think he threw in some extra?

 

[cdnalor]

Why would they all be sitting alone in the Wonder Wheel?  Those were two person seats.  That ride operators gonna get fired if he doesn't pack 'em in.

All those f bombs she was dropping in her set is the kind of thing that got you busted for obscenity in 1960, small club or no.  I wouldn't be surprised to see cops sitting in for her next show.

 

 

 

 

[kittykat]

Overall good episode but yeah I kind of feel we're treading water here.  I know the end scene is supposed to signify that they're headed to headliner but has it been earned yet?  The wonder wheel scene was a delightful farce and classic Palladino.

It's totally in character for Midge to play the victim on this one but I would like to see one scene where she realizes the weight of outing a black entertainer in 1960 but it looks like we're going to just get stride with Suzie.  I assume she is likely going to find out about the gambling maybe end of season.

[Zonk]

I forgot how riduiculously attracted I am to Joel. Not really my usual type but something about how he looks in those shirts just does it for me.

 

I think if I were Midge I'd just blast the real reason, why Shy fired me, from the rooftops. Of course it could be that nobody believes her, but at this point what does she have to lose? He certainly deserves it for being such a dick to her. The dickishness has just increased from last season, with him letting Miriam and Susie drive all the way to the airport, despite them having been already replaced by that point.

I'd like to reiterate that Midge didn't tell the crowd at the Apollo anything they didn't already know, otherwise it wouldn't have been funny and that she only told them that Shy was a bit flamboyant. That was at a time where people didn't put two and two together. Everbody thought liberace was straight, for crying out loud.

Firing her and especially in that way was just such a dick move.

 

6 hours ago, kittykat said:

It's totally in character for Midge to play the victim on this one but I would like to see one scene where she realizes the weight of outing a black entertainer in 1960 but it looks like we're going to just get stride with Suzie.

She didn't out anybody. At this point, she probably should though.

 

12 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Heh. I loved the Ferris Wheel bit. I think it needed to be a little too long for the right effect.

Absolutely. I wasn't into it in the beginning but by the end it had me laughing out loud a bunch. Not many shows can get more than a chuckle out of me. Well done.

 

[Dminches]

1 hour ago, Zonk said:

She didn't out anybody. At this point, she probably should though.

 

While she didn't come out and say he was gay, she said enough to leave people with the impression that he was.  Some of her lines from the Apollo show include:

“He pretty much has a guy for everything else,” and she made a comment about Shy’s “Judy Garland shoes.” Sterling Brown's character even mentions that to her on the tarmac.  Shy confessed to Midge that he was gay, without using that word, and I am sure he felt she went too far divulging information.

 

[cdnalor]

1 hour ago, Zonk said:

Everbody thought liberace was straight, for crying out loud

Liberace was known for threatening legal action at anyone who even implied that he was gay, in print or otherwise.  That's why many people thought the flamboyance was just an act.  Being outed was a career- killer at that time.  Shy Baldwin couldn't afford to have a blabbermouth like Midge around and by then she should have had enough experience to know where the line is.

[Zonk]

26 minutes ago, Dminches said:

“He pretty much has a guy for everything else,”

That's an extreme stretch to interpret as "he is gay". I wouldn't assume that to mean gay and I live in a way more open time. I thought it was about him being one of those types of guys who always say "oh I have a guy for this, give him a call" and I still think it was.

27 minutes ago, Dminches said:

and she made a comment about Shy’s “Judy Garland shoes.”

That was probably about the most blatent one, but that is with our hindsight. Did you know that the Naval criminal investigative sevrice spent decades searching for the illusive Dorothy, so many gay men were apperently friends with, because they thought she could help them root out the homosexual problem? Yeah, that's the level of clueless even criminal investigators were back then, now about triple that for the general public.

24 minutes ago, cdnalor said:

Liberace was known for threatening legal action at anyone who even implied that he was gay, in print or otherwise. 

Of course he did, but he never sued anybody for stating he was flamboyant. That was blatently obvious. And Midge said nothing more.

28 minutes ago, cdnalor said:

Shy Baldwin couldn't afford to have a blabbermouth like Midge around and by then she should have had enough experience to know where the line is.

I can see her being a blabbermouth being a problem, but the smart move would have been to keep her close and not tell her anything anymore. What he did was not only petty but also a dumb move. If Midge wasn't a much better person than I am, all his dirty little secrets would be all over the newspapers the next day.

And again, she didn't tell anybody at the Apollo what they didn't already know. Otherwise there wouldn't have been laughter but outrage, stunned slince, indignation, etc. It's like she told a crowd "Liberace sure likes wearing sparkly clothes, huh guys?!"

[GallwayGirl]

22 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

A set back of being kicked off a tour were she put the headliners life in danger .. I'm confused at who she is angry at about this .

She just doesn't get that she was wrong to out him. I mean come on. She was back stage. She saw all the women that were trying to set up their daughters or granddaughters with him. Not everyone knew he was gay.

9 hours ago, kittykat said:

Overall good episode but yeah I kind of feel we're treading water here.  I know the end scene is supposed to signify that they're headed to headliner but has it been earned yet?  The wonder wheel scene was a delightful farce and classic Palladino.

It's totally in character for Midge to play the victim on this one but I would like to see one scene where she realizes the weight of outing a black entertainer in 1960 but it looks like we're going to just get stride with Suzie.  I assume she is likely going to find out about the gambling maybe end of season.

Yes! She already helped him once when he had the snot beaten out of him. Why would she think it was okay to just "riff" about his sexual orientation at a club in Harlem?

[jrzy]

2 hours ago, Zonk said:

I forgot how riduiculously attracted I am to Joel. Not really my usual type but something about how he looks in those shirts just does it for me.

 

I think if I were Midge I'd just blast the real reason, why Shy fired me, from the rooftops. Of course it could be that nobody believes her, but at this point what does she have to lose? He certainly deserves it for being such a dick to her. The dickishness has just increased from last season, with him letting Miriam and Susie drive all the way to the airport, despite them having been already replaced by that point.

I'd like to reiterate that Midge didn't tell the crowd at the Apollo anything they didn't already know, otherwise it wouldn't have been funny and that she only told them that Shy was a bit flamboyant. That was at a time where people didn't put two and two together. Everbody thought liberace was straight, for crying out loud.

Firing her and especially in that way was just such a dick move.

 

She didn't out anybody. At this point, she probably should though.

 

Absolutely. I wasn't into it in the beginning but by the end it had me laughing out loud a bunch. Not many shows can get more than a chuckle out of me. Well done.

 

I disagree, what Midge did to Shy was reprehensible,  a good way to ruin his career.  He had every right to dump her from his tour for what she did on stage. Outing a black man in 1960?  No excuse whatsover, that was selfish and mean.  She could have put Shy in real danger. 

Didn't she already wreck her Dad's career by mouthing off about the company he was working for?  Why are there never any consequences for her actions?  Selfish and self centered is not my idea of a feminest icon.   

 

  

[shapeshifter]

28 minutes ago, Zonk said:

Did you know that the Naval criminal investigative sevrice spent decades searching for the illusive Dorothy, so many gay men were apperently friends with, because they thought she could help them root out the homosexual problem?

No, never read about that until now. 1970s NCIS should've just asked Mom, who winked at Liberace and at most referred to him as "soft." I think tiny Mom preferred her gay hairdresser's New Years Eve parties in part because there weren't big drunks pawing her. 

But, about Shy firing Midge: Wasn't it Shy's manager/lover(?) who fired her?

[Blakeston]

2 hours ago, Zonk said:

I think if I were Midge I'd just blast the real reason, why Shy fired me, from the rooftops.

You would out a gay Black man in the pre-Stonewall era - even though being outed could result in him going to prison or being beaten to death - just out of spite for losing a temporary job?

As for the Liberace comparison, Shy didn't have Liberace's public persona. Shy was known for dressing well, but he wasn't nearly as feminine or over-the-top as Liberace. So Midge making him out to be like Liberace probably raised some eyebrows in the audience - and that alone is a big deal.

Shy wasn't going to lose his career or go to jail as a direct result of Midge's jokes. But her pointing people in the direction of his sexuality was still a huge problem, and could raise suspicions that would lead to him being outed in the future. I don't blame him for wanting to get rid of her. 

All of that said, Shy and his manager handling things that way (leaving Midge stranded on the tarmac just to humiliate her) was a really stupid move. That's a scenario where you pay the person a good sum for their silence, rather than risking them blabbing.

[whiporee]

With the relevations this episode, I think Shy decided to get rid of Midge as soon as he told her he was gay. She knew, he knew she knew and he couldn't risk having her around with that knowledge. They'd already hired a replacement act for the tour, which means they'd already done auditions. made room reservation cleared the new person with the network -- that doesn't happen overnight. 

Why have her perform at the Apollo at all unless to provide some cover for her getting fired? Her act wouldn't have played well -- she was taking over for a much higher regarded performer by her audience. The reason they didn't hire Moms Mabley to open for him in the first place was the same reason it made no sense to put Midge onstage there -- different audiences, different expectations. And once Reggie told Midge to talk about Shy, it was done. Reggie told her to rag on him -- it might not have been about his sexuality (and I think the only person who thought he was being outed was Shy, and probably not even then) -- and Shy was going to be able claim offense and fire her. 

So after two years of thinking this was all Midge's fault, I now think she was set up and punished for the act of trying to help Shy out after he got beat up. Which sucks. 

[kwnyc]

11 minutes ago, whiporee said:

With the revelations this episode, I think Shy decided to get rid of Midge as soon as he told her he was gay. She knew, he knew she knew and he couldn't risk having her around with that knowledge.

I think that's an astute observation. It's also ironic that Midge has a strong self-destructive streak, and she really didn't seem to know that she was endangering Shy. As noted in other posts, for a Black man, an entertainer, to have been outed in 1960 definitely would have meant the end of his career, and possible jail or death. Midge didn't get it...Susie did, when Baldwin's manager explained what happened. (Just realized that Baldwin is also the last name of James Baldwin, the Black, gay writer who also endured considerable pushback from both the Black and gay communities in the '50s and '60s.)

It's not Susie's fault that she wasn't there to stop Midge (and was busy burning down her mother's house), but IF she'd been at the Apollo, would she have been able to keep Midge from blowing it? 

Midge blew up her career before when she publicly roasted Sophie Lennon. Her act is based on her being a truth-teller (or the truth as she sees it), and as she's discovered, it can get you fired, arrested, and blacklisted. Her perfect good girl is always fighting with her emerging woman warrior, and there are always consequences. 

Midge is much more comfortable saying whatever the f*ck she wants in a downtown dive for no money. ("Basket house" meaning a place where they pass a basket in the audience the the talent splits the take.) She still has the soft landing place of her family, Joel still having her back, and she even sometimes thinks about her kids. In some ways, her career has a parallel path to Lenny Bruce's: they meet when they are jailed for obscenity; they help each other out when they are working; they're divorced. I think the real split will come when Lenny picks up his heroin habit and is actively oppressed by city & state governments. (Toward the end, he was reading transcripts of his trials for his act.)

Maybe this season will be about Midge finding the middle road and finally growing up. 

[luvthepros]

4 hours ago, Zonk said:

I forgot how ridiculously attracted I am to Joel. Not really my usual type but something about how he looks in those shirts just does it for me.

 

 

 

Me too!!!

[smartymarty]

12 hours ago, cdnalor said:

Why would they all be sitting alone in the Wonder Wheel?  Those were two person seats.  That ride operators gonna get fired if he doesn't pack 'em in.

Actually, they were 4-person compartments, as evidenced by the person (I forget which character) who had the two Navy guys behind them. Why would they do that? Solely for the comedy of it. But  it was so unrealistic, as was "I must tell everyone something RIGHT NOW," that I didn't find the humor in it.

I thought the whole episode dragged. It's like the writers had some good plot points and then had to make every scene overly long to make a full hour. I hope the season improves.

[luvthepros]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

No, never read about that until now. 1970s NCIS should've just asked Mom, who winked at Liberace and at most referred to him as "soft." I think tiny Mom preferred her gay hairdresser's New Years Eve parties in part because there weren't big drunks pawing her. 

But, about Shy firing Midge: Wasn't it Shy's manager/lover(?) who fired her?

Didn't Shy tell his manager to take care of firing Midge? That is what I recall.

[kwnyc]

6 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

Actually, they were 4-person compartments, as evidenced by the person (I forget which character) who had the two Navy guys behind them.

The Wonder Wheel also has compartments that slide back and forth from the outer ring to an inner ring during the ride, and it will scare the sh*t out of you if you didn't know that! It's a very cool ride, but I also doubt you could shout back-and-forth between the cars.

[luvthepros]

The way the writers recapped the story lines after two years of hiatus, was very smart, IMHO. Nicely done.

[buckboard]

Having trouble understanding why even a hint that Shy might be gay would be disastrous?  Think of Johnny Mathis, who is quite similar to Shy.  Mathis commented in 1982 that "Homosexuality is a way of life that I've grown accustomed to." He got death threats when that was published anyway despite his saying it off the record .  He kept silent for decades after that and only in the past few years felt comfortable enough to admit that he is gay.  

The first comment was in 1982.  The situation in 1959 was much worse, when being outed would likely mean loss of a job, perhaps jail or physical attacks.  Mathis never married, but when rumors began to spread a few years later about Rock Hudson, he married his agent's secretary as a cover.  Once rumors of homosexuality -- such as Midge's comments about Shy -- that began to spread meant big trouble.  Midge betrayed a confidence and deserved to be fired.

[tennisgurl]

Great to have this show back again, although it seems like Midge has learned absolutely nothing from getting fired. She doesn't even seem to understand why she was fired, Suzie didn't explain why her set upset them so much, she seems to just think they were upset that she was too "real" or something, not that implying that Shy could be gay could quickly end his career and even endanger his life. Last season they seemed to be heading in a direction of Midge finally realizing that she has to stop burning bridges and using everyone she knows as fodder for her jokes, but now she seems to be doubling down. Even if she never said the word "homosexual" in regards to Shy, even a rumor that starts after a few jokes could be a huge disaster for him. They should have handled the situation better, telling her to leave while she was standing on tarmac was messed up, but I get why they fired her. 

Coney Island looked amazing, I adore the sets and clothes on this show so much. So many colors and patterns everywhere, I so wish I could go eat in that diner. The Farris Wheel bit was a classic, even as I was cringing over how awkward this already awkward situation has become. 

[shapeshifter]

25 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

it seems like Midge has learned absolutely nothing from getting fired. She doesn't even seem to understand why she was fired, Suzie didn't explain why her set upset them so much, she seems to just think they were upset that she was too "real" or something, not that implying that Shy could be gay could quickly end his career and even endanger his life.

My current interpretation is that Midge really doesn't totally grasp the concept of being gay at that time, whereas Suzie totally gets it, but, as a gender-fluid person herself of uncertain economic means, she is not about to talk too definitively about gender identity issues to anyone, including Midge.

[Clanstarling]

On 2/18/2022 at 9:10 AM, Keywestclubkid said:

A set back of being kicked off a tour were she put the headliners life in danger .. I'm confused at who she is angry at about this .

Because she's a completely self-centered person who thinks she's not wrong - it's the rest of the world that's wrong.

On 2/18/2022 at 1:32 PM, desertflower said:

I thought this episode was ok but not great. I loved Abe dealing with the kids and getting grumpy at Coney Island. He really reminded me of Monk in those scenes. I did think the Ferris wheel bit went on a little long. I would’ve been really annoyed if I was riding it and had to listen to all those people yelling. Lol!

I'm the opposite - I would have been amused if I was riding it (listening in is kind of fun), but found it a bit tedious and unrealistic as a scene.

 

8 hours ago, Zonk said:

That's an extreme stretch to interpret as "he is gay". I wouldn't assume that to mean gay and I live in a way more open time. I thought it was about him being one of those types of guys who always say "oh I have a guy for this, give him a call" and I still think it was.

I think it's because we live in a way more open time that those phrases don't mean as much, since we have way more blatant ways (offensive and inoffensive) ways of mentioning a person's orientation.

7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

But, about Shy firing Midge: Wasn't it Shy's manager/lover(?) who fired her?

Shy fired her, the manager handled it.

7 hours ago, Blakeston said:

You would out a gay Black man in the pre-Stonewall era - even though being outed could result in him going to prison or being beaten to death - just out of spite for losing a temporary job?

As for the Liberace comparison, Shy didn't have Liberace's public persona. Shy was known for dressing well, but he wasn't nearly as feminine or over-the-top as Liberace. So Midge making him out to be like Liberace probably raised some eyebrows in the audience - and that alone is a big deal.

Exactly, Shy was as smooth and elegant and attractive to women as most of the other male singers in his day. I actually don't believe many would have picked up on what Midge said, but Shy had been vulnerable and shared his most dangerous secret with Midge. Whether or not anyone in the audience sussed it out, Shy recognized the references and to him it was a betrayal. And Shy wasn't portrayed as an easy going man. It was totally in character for him to fire her and humiliate her.

I'm glad to have the show back. I'll have to get used to rapid fire dialogue again, the first twenty or so minutes were a challenge to follow even with captioning.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Clanstarling

[Sarah 103]

10 hours ago, Zonk said:

I forgot how riduiculously attracted I am to Joel. Not really my usual type but something about how he looks in those shirts just does it for me.

Same here. Joel is closer to my usual type and even I forgot how cute he was.

10 hours ago, Zonk said:

I'd like to reiterate that Midge didn't tell the crowd at the Apollo anything they didn't already know, otherwise it wouldn't have been funny and that she only told them that Shy was a bit flamboyant. That was at a time where people didn't put two and two together. Everbody thought liberace was straight, for crying out loud.

I agree. Only someone who knew the code words would be able to figure out what she meant (and outside the entertainment industry most people didn't have gaydar), and I'm not even 100% sure that Midge knew that she was using the code words to begin with. 

Overall, I enjoyed the episode. I didn't enjoy the scene on the Wonder Wheel. I did like her set at the start and end talking about revenge. 

[kittykat]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Great to have this show back again, although it seems like Midge has learned absolutely nothing from getting fired. She doesn't even seem to understand why she was fired, Suzie didn't explain why her set upset them so much, she seems to just think they were upset that she was too "real" or

Suzie didn't see the set so she could only infer as to what happened based on the tarmac conversation with Sterling K Brown.  But based on Midge's past behavior and the Sophie Lennon incident Suzie knows Midge said something really stupid.

I do like where they're going with Joel's character.  I could see him joining Team Midge as the business manager since Suzie can't exactly be trusted there. 

Midge just seems to want to double down on her "being me " but she has to learn at some point that being in the business means you have to tell the room service jokes.

[shapeshifter]

21 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Shy was as smooth and elegant and attractive to women as most of the other male singers in his day. I actually don't believe many would have picked up on what Midge said, but Shy had been vulnerable and shared his most dangerous secret with Midge

I can imagine Shy assuming that Midge, as his friend in his time of need, would have done the opposite kind of show about him. That is, she could have talked up his being hot and how it was just a matter of time before he was off the market--all while making it a little dirty and very funny.

[Blakeston]

16 minutes ago, kittykat said:

Suzie didn't see the set so she could only infer as to what happened based on the tarmac conversation with Sterling K Brown.  But based on Midge's past behavior and the Sophie Lennon incident Suzie knows Midge said something really stupid.

Everything clicked for Susie when Shy's manager mentioned the "Judy Garland shoes" joke.

Re: Midge's jokes, while most people in the Apollo audience wouldn't have drawn the conclusion that Shy was attracted to men, they would have understood that Midge was making him out to be somewhat girly. Even if they didn't associate Judy Garland herself with male homosexuality, they knew Midge was comparing Shy's clothes to a woman's clothes.

For a pre-Stonewall closet case like Shy, that would be a big issue.

(Also, while most people were pretty clueless about homosexuality back then, there were also people like Susie. I'm sure in a huge audience in Manhattan, where some of the attendees were undoubtedly familiar with show business, there would be some people who would connect the dots.)

Edited February 19, 2022 by Blakeston

[GallwayGirl]

The other thing that bugged me in this episode was blaming her all her problems on men. I f talked back to the tv saying “no honey, this one’s on you”. 
She shoots herself in the foot over and over again. Sophie Lennon, her father, now Shy Baldwin. Whose next?

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, GallwayGirl said:

The other thing that bugged me in this episode was blaming her all her problems on men. I f talked back to the tv saying “no honey, this one’s on you”. 
She shoots herself in the foot over and over again. Sophie Lennon, her father, now Shy Baldwin. Whose next?

Ooo. Hopefully Midge doesn’t do a set at Joel’s place with Chinese Mafia jokes that either gets him evicted or killed. 
I mean, just how powerful are Midge’s jokes?

[millennium]

If I wore a watch, I would be looking at it during the family scenes.  By and large, not funny.   I don't come for Tony Shalhoub.

Susie's schtick is getting repetitious and old.   It needs to grow or expand.

Not sure I like Angry Midge.  I get why she's angry and feeling vindictive.  But her act turned preachy towards the end, reminiscent of a Che Diaz comedy concert.

I'll keep watching.

Edited February 20, 2022 by millennium

[AllyB]

21 hours ago, Zonk said:

If Midge wasn't a much better person than I am, all his dirty little secrets would be all over the newspapers the next day.

Shy didn't have any dirty little secrets. He was a gay man living in an era where people knowing this intrinsic fact about who he was would have derailed his career and endangered his life and maybe even legal freedoms. The only thing dirty about that is a society that criminalised and belittled something that's a normal and natural part of a minority of people's lives.

[Keywestclubkid]

19 hours ago, buckboard said:

Having trouble understanding why even a hint that Shy might be gay would be disastrous?  Think of Johnny Mathis, who is quite similar to Shy.  Mathis commented in 1982 that "Homosexuality is a way of life that I've grown accustomed to." He got death threats when that was published anyway despite his saying it off the record .  He kept silent for decades after that and only in the past few years felt comfortable enough to admit that he is gay.  

The first comment was in 1982.  The situation in 1959 was much worse, when being outed would likely mean loss of a job, perhaps jail or physical attacks.  Mathis never married, but when rumors began to spread a few years later about Rock Hudson, he married his agent's secretary as a cover.  Once rumors of homosexuality -- such as Midge's comments about Shy -- that began to spread meant big trouble.  Midge betrayed a confidence and deserved to be fired.

A black man back then would be strike one him being where he was strike 2  add gay to that and yea… do you not know how Gay people were treated back them? They were beat killed etc etc Amy is a sloppy ass writer with this trying to make midge the victim 

On 2/19/2022 at 7:31 AM, Zonk said:

 

 

I think if I were Midge I'd just blast the real reason, why Shy fired me, from the rooftops.

Shouting from the rooftops that a man back then was gay you literally   just signed that man’s death warrant  when he did absolutely NOTHING wrong but be a gay man.. she could get another gig he would be dead… that doesn’t seem balanced 

Edited February 20, 2022 by Keywestclubkid

[Keywestclubkid]

16 minutes ago, AllyB said:

Shy didn't have any dirty little secrets. He was a gay man living in an era where people knowing this intrinsic fact about who he was would have derailed his career and endangered his life and maybe even legal freedoms. The only thing dirty about that is a society that criminalised and belittled something that's a normal and natural part of a minority of people's lives.

Thank you I don’t think people realize how dangerous it was for not only African Americans back then but Gay people were still being institutionalized, beat, killed … but oh no it’s the fragile white lady that was wronged.  

Edited February 20, 2022 by Keywestclubkid

[Keywestclubkid]

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I mean, just how powerful are Midge’s jokes?

I mean taking those Jokes nation wide on HIS tour and giving that shit air yes it could have been VERY powerful.  (Think of how easy shit catches on today someone post something it catches on starts getting word of mouth goes viral and soon EVERYONE has heard or seen it .. ) She with his tour was basically given that same opportunity and platform to make that “joke” a real thing in peoples minds 

 

Insinuating someone’s gay Especially someone NOT white back then wasn’t just a “joke” in the real world that shit had seriously dangerous implications. Would it have been better for you IF they showed him being beat to death or lynched ( yes BOTH those things still regularly occurred and he would have had to worry about) or loosing his livelihood because the joke started sticking and people stopped coming because he was a gay man? would it still be funny? Would it still just be a non powerful joke? 
 

 He literally had his life on the line just living day to day with the worry that someone would do to him what midge did (casually out him with her Microaggressive jokes about being gay with no thought to what could happen to him ) but sure a white lady making jokes on HIS tour NO big deal ..

Why would he continue on with her?  She showed him that she would and DID throw him to the wolves and under the bus so she could be more famous with no thought to what that would do to him . She showed she had no loyalty or respect whatsoever for him or his tour. That be like someone coming out and dogging her with insinuations that could have put her and her family in harms way when she was the headliner and expecting to still be employed then having the nerve to feel like they did absolutely NOTHING wrong that’s crazy to me …

again this wasn’t HER tour so to be that disrespectful on HIS tour really was a slap in the face to the man that was giving her exposure and a slot on a National tour that was expanding her reach. in no way is she in the right in this sorry 

 

being gay and just going to school or being out and about in town in the south even just 20 years ago for me was a really difficult thing … having fag yelled at you having people threatening you threatening to beat you just because they think your gay is a terrifying thing and something I dealt with daily.. So my gut reaction was is and always will be No it’s not just harmless jokes when you live in the world were people take those jokes as an okay to do what they do.  so this kinda bullshit storyline of making the entitled white cis wealthy straight lady the victim in this with NO ONE giving any pushback and  it was just a joke and how horrible he was for kicking her off his tour for his own safety really just triggers me on so many levels.  

Edited February 20, 2022 by Keywestclubkid

[smartymarty]

1 hour ago, Keywestclubkid said:

2 hours ago, AllyB said:

Shy didn't have any dirty little secrets. He was a gay man living in an era where people knowing this intrinsic fact about who he was would have derailed his career and endangered his life and maybe even legal freedoms. The only thing dirty about that is a society that criminalised and belittled something that's a normal and natural part of a minority of people's lives.

Thank you I don’t think people realize how dangerous it was for not only African Americans back then but Gay people were still being institutionalized, beat, killed … but oh no it’s the fragile white lady that was wronged.  

Are people forgetting the scene last season of Shy having been beaten up by homophobic glassbowls?

[Clanstarling]

14 hours ago, GallwayGirl said:

The other thing that bugged me in this episode was blaming her all her problems on men. I f talked back to the tv saying “no honey, this one’s on you”. 
She shoots herself in the foot over and over again. Sophie Lennon, her father, now Shy Baldwin. Whose next?

I love the show, but Midge not always so much. She never, ever, considers how her actions hurt others, and firmly believes that she's in the right all the time. The bit about the milk account being in Joel's name would have been decent social commentary, if we hadn't seen her bamboozle all the other business people. I would like her to gain some self awareness, but I think that's unlikely.

17 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

Are people forgetting the scene last season of Shy having been beaten up by homophobic glassbowls?

Not me. Not to mention, it was the reason she found out Shy's orientation. It was, until the nightclub scene, a new tender and caring moment for Midge. I liked that Midge.

Is it just me, or have none of the "jokes" actually been funny so far this season. I've seen comedians whose shows are driven by rage, and found them funny.  But Midge's aren't really working for me this season.

[shapeshifter]

5 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I love the show, but Midge not always so much. She never, ever, considers how her actions hurt others, and firmly believes that she's in the right all the time. The bit about the milk account being in Joel's name would have been decent social commentary, if we hadn't seen her bamboozle all the other business people. I would like her to gain some self awareness, but I think that's unlikely.

I both cringed at Midge "bamboozling" the creditors, and cheered her on for getting away with it, because she was in desperate financial straits through largely no fault of her own. Also, so long as she doesn't default on her credit, the merchants do get double the profits out of her business than they might have if she was not buying milk (and just feeding the kids toast for breakfast) while waiting for her earned money to appear.

[Clanstarling]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I both cringed at Midge "bamboozling" the creditors, and cheered her on for getting away with it, because she was in desperate financial straits through largely no fault of her own. Also, so long as she doesn't default on her credit, the merchants do get double the profits out of her business than they might have if she was not buying milk (and just feeding the kids toast for breakfast) while waiting for her earned money to appear.

Fair point - though her methods are maddening.  Even when she was flush (ie married to Joel) she pretty much expected everyone to do her bidding, so it grated.

Edited February 20, 2022 by Clanstarling

[maddie965]

I think I might be done with this show. Midge's self-centered attitude has reached new heights. Revenge??? On the guy she betrayed in the worst way possible? I can't with her anymore.

The rest felt forced and flat. I'll just follow the forum to see if/when Lenny Bruce returns.

[smartymarty]

2 minutes ago, maddie965 said:

I think I might be done with this show. Midge's self-centered attitude has reached new heights. Revenge??? On the guy she betrayed in the worst way possible? I can't with her anymore.

The rest felt forced and flat. I'll just follow the forum to see if/when Lenny Bruce returns.

Maybe the trick is to watch it as a tragedy rather than a comedy.

[Quilt Fairy]

I loved this episode.  I thought it started off gang-busters and never let up.  Laughed out loud for the whole hour, especially at the scene on the Wonder Wheel.  

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, smartymarty said:

Maybe the trick is to watch it as a tragedy rather than a comedy.

Tragedy and Comedy 🎭 are not mutually exclusive, and often intertwined in Jewish culture (e.g. Mel Brooks’ “The Producers” that pokes fun at Nazis) which this show is depicting. 
So this flavor of entertainment may not appeal to all.

[Linderhill]

On 2/19/2022 at 12:09 PM, smartymarty said:

Actually, they were 4-person compartments, as evidenced by the person (I forget which character) who had the two Navy guys behind them. Why would they do that? Solely for the comedy of it. But  it was so unrealistic, as was "I must tell everyone something RIGHT NOW," that I didn't find the humor in it.

Yeah, I couldn't figure out why she had to tell them RIGHT THEN!  I'm sorry, that was news that could have waited for a more opportune  moment in private.  I wouldn't be surprised if one of those merchants that she conned into increasing her creditline caught wind of he less than flush circumstances.  I know it was all a play on the comedy but I couldn't help but get completely annoyed with Midge's self centered antics.  

And yes, getting fired on the tarmac was a crappy thing but she deserved it.

[GallwayGirl]

On 2/20/2022 at 12:25 AM, shapeshifter said:

Ooo. Hopefully Midge doesn’t do a set at Joel’s place with Chinese Mafia jokes that either gets him evicted or killed. 
I mean, just how powerful are Midge’s jokes?

I'm just going this. Midge talking about her father working for Bell labs in her routine ended up with a mysterious kitchen fire, the show ended, her stay there cancelled and her father losing his job. She knew his work was "hush, hush".

[monakane]

My favorite scene was when Susie's sister shook her husband to see if he was alive and then he started snoring and she says, "shit."  I laughed so hard at that.

Other than that, I was a little disappointed in the episode.