S04.E01: Rumble on the Wonder Wheel

[rollacoaster]

Midge beating on a cab with a whole-ass tree and the NY cabbie not getting highly upset about it seemed wholly unrealistic to me. 

This first episode didn't really hold my attention like the show normally does. Midge's self-centeredness and lack of awareness is already grating more than usual this season. I'm hoping we'll se some kind of growth arc for her. I was KINDA intrigued with Susie and Sister's insurance storyline. I hoped Susie would chill on asking about the check, it seemed really suspect. Now I'm wondering if all major banks back then had shadowy hidden hallways and creepy interrogation rooms for suspicious customers.

In church, Susie? REALLY?

That's as far as I got. I'll be checking the forums to see if anything interesting happens. 

 

[buckboard]

On 2/20/2022 at 6:54 AM, shapeshifter said:

I both cringed at Midge "bamboozling" the creditors, and cheered her on for getting away with it, because she was in desperate financial straits through largely no fault of her own. Also, so long as she doesn't default on her credit, the merchants do get double the profits out of her business than they might have if she was not buying milk (and just feeding the kids toast for breakfast) while waiting for her earned money to appear.

No fault of her own?  She was fired from a lucrative job because SHE betrayed her boss.  She then went out and refurnished her new apartment, spending money that put her further into debt.  She refused to do shows with the kind of routines that clubs thought would be acceptable for their audiences, which kept her from getting hired by them.  How was none of this HER fault?

[shapeshifter]

46 minutes ago, buckboard said:

No fault of her own?  She was fired from a lucrative job because SHE betrayed her boss.  She then went out and refurnished her new apartment, spending money that put her further into debt.  She refused to do shows with the kind of routines that clubs thought would be acceptable for their audiences, which kept her from getting hired by them.  How was none of this HER fault?

I may have misunderstood a conversation between Midge and Suzie?
I thought they determined that Shy had already hired someone else before she even opened for Shy in Harlem. No?

But, even if I am right about this👆, I may have assumed wrongly that when Shy's manager (Sterling K Brown's character) told Midge to make jokes about Shy because they were his people, that he was in essence setting her up to do what she did (which she probably should have known better, but it was a moment when she was nervous about not knowing the audience and was being advised by Shy's manager).

If I am correct about this part👆, perhaps Shy's manager set her up to fail so he could get rid of her. My always overly-active imagination can think of several plot reasons for this, as well as alternatives to Shy's manager's motives, but it's probably better to just wait to see if any of them pan out.

Edited February 21, 2022 by shapeshifter

[whiporee]

16 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I may have misunderstood a conversation between Midge and Suzie?
I thought they determined that Shy had already hired someone else before she even opened for Shy in Harlem. No?

But, even if I am right about this👆, I may have assumed wrongly that when Shy's manager (Sterling K Brown's character) told Midge to make jokes about Shy because they were his people, that he was in essence setting her up to do what she did (which she probably should have known better, but it was a moment when she was nervous about not knowing the audience and was being advised by Shy's manager).

If I am correct about this part👆, perhaps Shy's manager set her up to fail so he could get rid of her. My always overly-active imagination can think of several plot reasons for this, as well as alternatives to Shy's manager's motives, but it's probably better to just wait to see if any of them pan out.

That’s my reading on it. Midge found out Shy was gay when she went to help him. Shy couldn’t handle Midge knowing — he’d kept the secret from everyone except Reggie — and told Reggie to get rid of her. They took a sabbatical to research and interview other comedians, and then Reggie set Midge up to give Shy a justification for firing her. He told her to make fun of him, and it didn’t matter what she did, Shy was going to have a “reason” to want her gone. Reggie said as much on the tarmac — that you indulge their irrational demands. He wasn’t angry — he was regretful because he knew it trumped up.  And then they leaked it in order to build their case against her, to make her look like a crazy woman. 
It was Midges fault, but her mistake wasn't the set — Reggie told her not to do her regular act — but in ignoring everyone’s advice and going to help Shy when he didn’t want help.  He wanted to recover in silence and privacy — and protect his secret — and she barged her way in. At that point she was done, no matter what she did next. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by whiporee

[Not4Me]

As revolting as Moishe and Shirley can be as in-laws, you’d think Rose and Abe could actually display some level of gratitude towards the Maisels for providing them shelter within their home instead of showing their general contempt. But clearly that’s where Midge gets her self-involved, victimhood-complex from. And yeah, she could’ve put Shy in serious danger with her words, it was 1960.

I didn’t care for the Wonder Wheel yelling, it was obnoxious and not particularly funny. 

[SailorGirl]

On 2/20/2022 at 2:09 AM, millennium said:

But her act turned preachy towards the end, reminiscent of a Che Diaz comedy concert.

If nothing else came out of the Che Diaz fiasco, we have now established the new comparative low for other shows. So that's . . . something??? 

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING could go that bad on Maisel unless they bring in Cynthia Nixon . . . 😆😆

[NYCFree]

I had really been looking forward to this season. This first episode was such a let down for me. The characters felt like they were all written by someone who didn’t actually know how to write comedy scripts, like they were all caricatures of the once multi-dimensional people they used to be.

Joel was the only likable character, how did that happen?

[Blakeston]

The more I think about it, the more I dislike the revelation that Shy decided to fire Midge before she performed at the Apollo.

It feels kind of like the writers are trying to absolve Midge of responsibility for what happened to her. She wasn't fired for her idiocy in making jokes about how girly and prissy Shy is; she was just fired for being a caring person who knew too much! Blech.

[shapeshifter]

2 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

The more I think about it, the more I dislike the revelation that Shy decided to fire Midge before she performed at the Apollo.

It feels kind of like the writers are trying to absolve Midge of responsibility for what happened to her. She wasn't fired for her idiocy in making jokes about how girly and prissy Shy is; she was just fired for being a caring person who knew too much! Blech.

I respect your dislike of the writers’ choice, but at least it’s a bit more original of a story, even if they probably got there just because the show is about the marvelous Mrs. Maisel.

[Clanstarling]

9 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

The more I think about it, the more I dislike the revelation that Shy decided to fire Midge before she performed at the Apollo.

It feels kind of like the writers are trying to absolve Midge of responsibility for what happened to her. She wasn't fired for her idiocy in making jokes about how girly and prissy Shy is; she was just fired for being a caring person who knew too much! Blech.

I saw the "revelation" as more speculation on their part than fact. Sure they hired him before Suzie and Midge got to the airport. But that was the next day - and I can't imagine it was all that difficult for them to find another comedian within hours of Midge's performance.  Comedians who were available would chomp at the bit - and wouldn't have had to pack as many things as Midge.

And if I remember correctly, by the time they saw a newspaper - it was the next morning after the airport debacle - so more than 24 hours after Midge's performance. Plenty of time to get the news in the paper.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Clanstarling

[gorgy]

TL;DR Don't piss off your boss

[SnarkShark]

The scene on the Monster Wheel is one of the MOST Jewish, and funniest, things this show has ever done.  Bravo.

[SnarkShark]

On 2/21/2022 at 11:38 PM, Not4Me said:

I didn’t care for the Wonder Wheel yelling, it was obnoxious and not particularly funny. 

Except aside from the intentionally ridiculous setting, it's dead accurate for what Jews of that period often did.  More the ones like the Maisels than Midge's more educated family, but many of us from that background have strong memories of family bellowing from distant parts of the house or out to the yard as a perfectly normal thing.  Not in anger, but like this just because the WASPy sense of inappropriateness didn't exist.  Why wait until you're next to each other when you can shout from a distance? 

And sorry... it IS funny. It's the recognition of something many of us know that we're a little ashamed of, because those white-bread values landed more on us than on our parents and grandparents. 

[Not4Me]

On 2/24/2022 at 5:27 PM, SnarkShark said:

Except aside from the intentionally ridiculous setting, it's dead accurate for what Jews of that period often did.  More the ones like the Maisels than Midge's more educated family, but many of us from that background have strong memories of family bellowing from distant parts of the house or out to the yard as a perfectly normal thing.  Not in anger, but like this just because the WASPy sense of inappropriateness didn't exist.  Why wait until you're next to each other when you can shout from a distance? 

And sorry... it IS funny. It's the recognition of something many of us know that we're a little ashamed of, because those white-bread values landed more on us than on our parents and grandparents. 

I grew up in Brooklyn as a child of immigrants so I get the reference since I was exposed to these kinds of exchanges alot.

I still didn’t care for it though, that scene dragged, mostly due to the airing out of some rather dirty, personal family revelations for laughs.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Not4Me

[Lake Erie Lass]

The Big Bang Theory featured that Jewish yelling dynamic as a running joke for almost the whole series, until the woman who played Howard’s mother died in real life. And that was representational of the 2000’s. Seems like the Jewish family dynamic is always portrayed as cartoonish in comedies. Abe taught at Columbia, Rose studied in Paris, Midge went to Bryan Mayr, and her brother (who we haven’t seen for a while) is incredibly smart as well. These are highly educated people, but their behavior is always shown as superficial and stereotypical.

[Lake Erie Lass]

I realize this is a comedy and played primarily for laughs, but the Maisel family dynamic is wearing thin this season. I felt really let down after watching the first episode of Season 4; everyone’s behavior was self centered and grating. Midge’s comedy was sarcastic and pithy the first three seasons, now it’s different in tone and topic. I was so looking forward to this new season, hopefully it will get better as we go along.

[Nicola]

On 2/20/2022 at 9:44 AM, Clanstarling said:

She never, ever, considers how her actions hurt others, and firmly believes that she's in the right all the time.

She is her father's daughter. 

[nomodrama]

In regards to Midge having to trick everyone into giving her double the credit....is Joel not giving her any financial support? I don't think they have ever addressed that but I would think he would be and that it would at least cover the cost of milk?

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, nomodrama said:

In regards to Midge having to trick everyone into giving her double the credit....is Joel not giving her any financial support? I don't think they have ever addressed that but I would think he would be and that it would at least cover the cost of milk?

I had the same thought - even if he wasn't giving alimony and child support (fairly unheard of in those days, I think), he is their father, a far more involved parent than Midge, and would want to make sure his kids had what they needed.

[shapeshifter]

15 hours ago, nomodrama said:

In regards to Midge having to trick everyone into giving her double the credit....is Joel not giving her any financial support? I don't think they have ever addressed that but I would think he would be and that it would at least cover the cost of milk?

6 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I had the same thought - even if he wasn't giving alimony and child support (fairly unheard of in those days, I think), he is their father, a far more involved parent than Midge, and would want to make sure his kids had what they needed.

Having been a single mother myself, it sounded very natural to me. However, we viewers know that Joel at least temporarily made up the difference for Susie having, um, misplaced(?) Midge’s earnings, which puts an entirely different spin on things that I’m not quite sure how we are supposed to interpret.

[chessiegal]

One thing I learned from watching Gilmore Girls is that trying to make sense of money when it comes to anything the Palladinos write is useless.

[Bklyndeb]

On 2/19/2022 at 10:22 AM, jrzy said:

I disagree, what Midge did to Shy was reprehensible,  a good way to ruin his career.  He had every right to dump her from his tour for what she did on stage. Outing a black man in 1960?  No excuse whatsover, that was selfish and mean.  She could have put Shy in real danger. 

Didn't she already wreck her Dad's career by mouthing off about the company he was working for?  Why are there never any consequences for her actions?  Selfish and self centered is not my idea of a feminest icon.   

 

  And early on outed her friends pregnancy at her wedding.  With friends like Midge....

 

[Red Fields]

On 2/19/2022 at 12:16 PM, kwnyc said:

The Wonder Wheel also has compartments that slide back and forth from the outer ring to an inner ring during the ride, and it will scare the sh*t out of you if you didn't know that! It's a very cool ride, but I also doubt you could shout back-and-forth between the cars.

I was waiting for the cars to move and to hear some screaming. It’s pretty scary, especially when the cars go forward on their tracks. You feel like you are going to to fly right off the ride. It’s like a mini roller coaster. Only some of the cars are stationary. No way can you be calmly eating in the ones that move, like the kids were doing.

[lucindabelle]

On 2/28/2022 at 4:03 PM, shapeshifter said:

Having been a single mother myself, it sounded very natural to me. However, we viewers know that Joel at least temporarily made up the difference for Susie having, um, misplaced(?) Midge’s earnings, which puts an entirely different spin on things that I’m not quite sure how we are supposed to interpret.

On 2/28/2022 at 9:31 AM, Clanstarling said:

I had the same thought - even if he wasn't giving alimony and child support (fairly unheard of in those days, I think), he is their father, a far more involved parent than Midge, and would want to make sure his kids had what they needed.

No.

Not only were alimony and child support not unheard of in 1960, it was the norm, since most women did  not work.  
 

child custody battles go way back- little Gloria Vanderbilt- too.

https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/other/alimony/

Edited July 3, 2022 by lucindabelle

[Clanstarling]

11 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

No.

Not only were alimony and child support not unheard of in 1960, it was the norm, since most women did  not work.  
 

child custody battles go way back- little Gloria Vanderbilt- too.

https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/other/alimony/

Pardon my poor writing, you point out how my sentence structure could easily be misread. I meant that NOT paying alimony and child support was fairly unheard of in those days.  So we are in agreement.

[lucindabelle]

On 7/3/2022 at 1:03 PM, Clanstarling said:

Pardon my poor writing, you point out how my sentence structure could easily be misread. I meant that NOT paying alimony and child support was fairly unheard of in those days.  So we are in agreement.

That makes so much more sense LOL apologies

[christie]

On 2/22/2022 at 1:52 AM, shapeshifter said:

 I may have assumed wrongly that when Shy's manager (Sterling K Brown's character) told Midge to make jokes about Shy because they were his people, that he was in essence setting her up to do what she did 

I don't think so. When Reggie fired Midge, Midge said something about Reggie knowing that Shy was gay, Reggie answered that he did know but that he didn't know that Midge also knew. Yes, he did tell her to make fun of Shy but he wasn't implying to let people know Shy was gay.